civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - October 15, 2025

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Oct 15, 20255h 11m

Thank you.

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okay thank you good morning everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this morning's

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zba board of adjustment hearing with me is our board secretary cheryl l gaston

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president mr chairman our board member michael johns

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he's here our board member taya win

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okay i know she's here too present mr chairman oh yep there she is and our board member ryan

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mcadams present mr chairman so present is our board attorney hillary emerson our zoning board

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director ian haggerty and our board administrator lakeisha dandy recording of this hearing will be

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post on the zba website by participating you consent to be recorded this is an in-person

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meeting with remote capabilities whether remote or in person if you're called to speak you must state

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and spell your name and then wait to be sworn in once you've been sworn in please state your name

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each time before beginning your testimony any person may enter their appearance there are three

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ways you can identify the case property address on your zoo webinar you can see a staff member or

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can call the gba appearance line by the close of business tomorrow call 267-270-5548 leave a

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message that includes your email address and the address of the property of the appeal

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the following guide guide guidance is for our remote attendees when directed you must raise

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your virtual hand in order to be recognized to speak if you're called to testify you'll

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be prompted to join as a panelist. Please accept the request and turn on your camera.

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The webinar Q&A is for questions about the hearing. Do not comment on cases in the Q&A.

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And finally, if you're participating by phone, press star nine to raise your hand and star six

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to unmute. For our in-person attendees, please refrain from talking, eating, or drinking during

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the hearings. Verbal and physical aggression will not be tolerated. Restrooms are across

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and the elevators. A water fountain is just outside the room to the right. When speaking on

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the record, you must speak directly into the microphone in order to be heard by all attendees

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and the court reporter. In the event of an emergency, please follow the directions given

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over the public address system or by the staff. The main exit is through the double doors at the

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rear. The nearest stairwell is to the left of the doors. In case of an evacuation, the rally point

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is love park directly across hard street please re please remain there so that we can account for you

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just hold on one minute

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Okay, so let's look at our schedule for today.

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3. MI 2024-005-361-2512-32 Island Avenue. This case is continued. Attorney moving party.

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Number four, MI 2024-007-406-5907 Erdrich Street.

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This case is continued until 4-15-26 at 9.30.

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Number five, MI 2024-007-418-1512 Cambridge Street.

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This case is continued until 4-15-26 at 9.30.

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And number six, MI-2025, 0-0-0-0-2-4, 1925 West Summer Street, Somerset Street.

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This case is continued to 4-15-26.

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8. MI-2025-002-138-1904 Diamond Street. This case is continued until 4-15-26 at 9-30.

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Number eight, MI-

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and number 13 mi 2025 002 178 311 and a half east godfrey avenue this case is continuing until

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4 15 26 are there any requests for continuous any additional requests for continuance

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Good morning, Mr. Chair. This is Jason Hand. That will be your calls for the session. We have two hands up right now. The first one is from Mr. Vern Anastasio. I will allow them to speak.

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Good morning, Counsel.

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Good morning, Mr. Chair.

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Mike, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, sir. Vern Anastasio. A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O. On behalf of Mr. Besso Campela.

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Okay, so could you give us an update, please?

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Yes, 1653 South 23rd.

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I was prepared to present today.

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Fifteen minutes ago, I received the letter from the RCO and their position.

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In the letter, they state that they would like to meet again with some revisions on the plan.

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As such, if I went ahead with a hear and hold, it's likely that the plans I present at a subsequent meeting would be different than the ones I show you today.

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As such, I'm going to ask for a continuance here.

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All right.

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So MI 2025-002-161-1653 South 23rd Street.

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This case is continued until 4-15-26.

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Thank you for calling, counsel.

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Thank you.

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Do we have another hand?

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Yes, Chair.

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I have a hand up from some folks.

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I will allow them to speak.

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Good morning, Sharon.

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I do, sir, thank you.

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What case?

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I believe the address is 5423 Oxford Avenue.

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Or that 5243 Oxford Avenue.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Could you give us an update on that case?

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I'm sorry.

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Hello?

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Yes.

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Sloan, could you give us an update?

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What's your comment on this case?

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The applicants reached out to our office.

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They will be meeting with the RCO as of November 15th.

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They weren't prepared to meet with the RCO prior to their ZBA hearing.

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I hope someone, and I'm not exactly sure whether the appellant is on the line, but they won't be having their meeting with the RCO until the 15th.

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So they won't be prepared to meet with the ZBA until after that.

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All right. So let me see who's on the line.

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Anyone representing 5423 Oxford Avenue, LLC?

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5423 Oxford Avenue, LLC?

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And that name would be Matthew Benneby.

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Matthew Bentley, please.

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Benneby. I'm sorry.

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Yes.

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Mr. Folks, do you know if Mr. Benneby is an attorney?

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um because the property is owned by an llc he's he's a property owner okay he's the elite property

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owner yes okay so i so i believe he would need to if you it doesn't appear that he's here um

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if you could communicate to him um that since it appears the property is owned in the name of an

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llc he will need to be represented by council at the zoning board hearing he does understand that

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we did put that in writing, ma'am. Okay, excellent. Thank you so much. So MI 2025 002 271 5243

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Oxford Avenue. This case is continued to 4 15 26 at 9 30 a.m. Thank you. Thank you very much. Any

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anyone else with their hand up? No chair, don't see any further hands right now. And number 12

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MI 2025-002-165-2815 North 2nd Street.

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Isaac Rivera is the listed owner.

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No exhibits.

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First listing.

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Chair, I do not see any hands, and I do not see the person in question.

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Chair, I do not see any hands, and I do not see the person in question in the virtual audience this morning.

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And, Mr. Chair, I just want to note, for the record, the coordinating RCO did email us last month to advise that they had not been contacted by the applicant.

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Thank you. So, this is still the first listing. We have no exhibits.

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So MI-2025-002-165-2815 North 2nd Street, that case is continued until 4-15-26.

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Mark must be heard.

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We want to go to our add-on list.

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MI-2024-007-317-254 South 11th Street.

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I vote yes. Temporary variance that expires 10, 16, 27, and proviso, second and third floor only.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with provisos.

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Iowa, my vote is yes with provisos.

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Number two, MI 2024, 006-028-429-North 53rd Street, I vote no.

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Michael Johns, my vote is no.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.

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Iowa, my vote is no.

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number 15 will be our first going to our regular list mi2025 002 443 537

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sanger street i believe that we have a uh interpreter for that this case

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yeah spanish interpreter has been promoted to panelist they should be coming back in shortly

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Sure.

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Thank you.

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Good morning, Your Honor.

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Good morning.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, sir.

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My name is Leonel, spelled as in L-E-O-N-E-L, last name Gillen, spelled as in G-U-I-L-L-E-N.

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Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will interpret accurately, completely, and impartially

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from English to Spanish

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and from Spanish to English

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to the best of your ability.

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I swear.

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Could you please call

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Angelica Figorio?

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Está la señorita

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Angelica Figorio.

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Sí.

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Yes.

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Figueroa, perdón.

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Could you ask her to state her name

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and spell for the stenographer?

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Puede deletrear su nombre

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y puede decir su nombre

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y deletrearlo para el stenógrafo,

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por favor.

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and then do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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yes and i'm going to say this slow interpret i'll do it a sense at a time

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This application is for use as retail sales of food, beverages, and groceries.

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Muy bien. Entonces, esta aplicación es para poder vender comida al por menor, alimentos, bebidas, y otros artículos.

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Convenience store serving hot food.

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Y dentro de la tienda vender comida caliente.

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Sí.

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on the first floor of an existing structure

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with a single family household living above.

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En una, en una estructura,

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en una casa, en una estructura,

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en el primer piso de esa estructura,

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que es una casa de uso de una familia, ¿correcto?

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Sí.

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Yes.

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Whereas to propose use retail sales of food.

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Y el uso propuesto es para venta al por menor de comida.

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Sí.

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Yes.

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Beverages and groceries is prohibited in the RSA 5 zoning district.

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Y ahora, la venta de comida al por menor, bebidas y otros artículos es prohibido según la regla de la zonificación de RSA.

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Sí.

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No más de un uso se permite por lote.

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No más de un uso se permite por lote, de acuerdo a la zonificación.

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Nuestra secretaria de la Junta, Cheryl Gaston, tiene solo unas cuantas preguntas.

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Good morning, Ms. Figueroa.

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Buenos días, señorita Figueroa.

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Buenos días.

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Good morning.

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Did you submit your documents to the Zoning Board five days in advance of this hearing?

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Usted logró ingresar sus documentaciones para esta Junta cinco días antes de la fecha establecida?

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Sí.

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Yes.

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And you can proceed and share your screen.

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Puede proceder y compartir su pantalla.

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can you see it uh we do not see the screen yet okay

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okay it's coming up now it's coming up no let us see okay um can we specify what exactly

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are we showing you so so so listen listen um oh she has to testify and that's why we have an

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interpreter so you you cannot help her testify okay all right that's why our interpreters here

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and he will gladly do anything you ask i'm sorry that's okay all right so we we we don't really

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Ahorita, en ese momento, no vemos la pantalla, solo vemos como de nuevo lo de Zoom.

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you may need to click on a document and then hit share screen like have a certain document open

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and then go and share screen and then select that document. Le puede dar click a uno de los

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documentos después le haga de luego después de eso presiona compartir pantalla y pone

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Específicamente ese documento

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Tell her she can move on because we have that document.

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We have it.

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we have that

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so number one

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when i think it'd be worthwhile

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if she were to say look this is what i'm trying to do

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so so everybody understands

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so why don't you ask her

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please explain what she wants to do

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Muy bien, básicamente lo que queremos es que usted nos diga en este momento

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qué es exactamente lo que usted quiere hacer.

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Mientras está buscando, usted nos puede decir exactamente qué quiere hacer.

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Una pequeña cafetería donde se venda sándwich, cosas frías.

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La propiedad tiene una puerta por el lado del frente,

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donde las personas pueden entrar,

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y una puerta del lado de atrás

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donde puede ser la salida de emergencia.

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Ahora nos tiene que mostrar

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fotografías de la propiedad

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she has y cualquier otro plan que tenga

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cualquier plano que tenga o cualquier plan que tenga

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pueden pueden ver si este viene siendo la parte del frente

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so this is the front part okay good please move on

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Continúa.

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continúa

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um

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hello

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El plano.

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El plano no se le dice.

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Yo le voy a enseñar como.

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This is like where it's located.

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This is called.

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Yep.

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Thank you.

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Okay, gracias.

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Ellos quieren como cosas que yo no he podido ver.

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So I think if she has interior photos would be worthwhile.

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Fotografía de la parte interior, por favor.

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¿Dónde están?

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And it was at the other end.

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At the other end.

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Okay.

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You can see?

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Yeah.

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So that's one of the rooms.

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Continue.

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That is one of the rooms, continue, please.

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This is a little counter.

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Yes, that's a small counter.

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Does she have cooking there?

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I mean, is she going to cook the food?

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Is she going to cook the food?

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Not yet.

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Yes, but on the back part.

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Do we have a photo of that?

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Can you see here?

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Is she cooking there and serving out the window?

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Is that what it is?

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Is she cooking there and serving out the window?

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Sino que en, eh, teniendo un espacio

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para que cuando los clientes entren, eh,

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también, let me ver, por acá atrás

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se estará cocinando

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y aquí tendrá un pequeño espacio

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para los clientes.

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So this part

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In the back part right here

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That's where we're going to be doing the cooking

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And in the front part right here

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It's going to have a little space for the clients

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Are people going to

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Will people eat there?

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¿La persona van a comer ahí?

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No

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No

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For takeout

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But

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Let's see

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For takeout

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hello yes yes yes for to come

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hold on one minute we're going to hold the testimony

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and we have a fire drill here so everybody just hold on excuse me uh board members uh

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folks on the call we're going to have a fire drill in our building right now so we may have

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to put this on pause for a moment we're gonna resume resume as soon as we're available thank you

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vamos a volver apenas volvamos hay un simulacro o hay una emergencia de incendio permítanme

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I saw the sign when I came in.

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I didn't see it.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Well, okay, Chair, this is Ian Hegarty.

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The fire drill is completed.

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We can resume.

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Oh, thank you.

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Thanks, everyone, for your patience.

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Thank you.

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Let's continue.

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Interpreter, where's our client?

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She's right there, Angélica.

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I'll ask her to share the screen again.

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Angélica, can you please share the screen?

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Okay, so just a quick point.

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She's eventually going to put a kitchen in there, right?

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Am I correct?

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And there'll be no eating inside the property.

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Is that right?

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solamente algo

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rapidito

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eventualmente va a poner una cocina ahí

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pero no van a comer dentro

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de la propiedad

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no

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muy bien

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entonces no van a comer dentro de la propiedad

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ahora puede poner alguna otra

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fotografía de la propiedad por favor

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si tiene más

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ahí es atrás donde va a estar la cocina

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¿verdad?

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Sí.

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Y ese es el mostrador.

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El baño.

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Esa es la parte del frente

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de la propiedad.

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Preguntas de la Junta.

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yes um okay so what are your hours of operation going to be what is

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So, what are your hours of operation going to be?

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Muy bien.

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¿Cuáles serían el horario que va a manejar?

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Las horas de operación, ¿qué va a ser?

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De 7 a 8 aproximadamente o a 6 de la tarde.

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From 7 to 8 or 6 in the afternoon.

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And that's every day.

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¿Y eso es todos los días?

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¿Todos los días?

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Sí.

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And you're going to put in, you're going to serve hot food that requires cooking.

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Is that what you're saying?

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Va a servir comida caliente, o sea, que se necesita, que se cocina también, correcto?

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Sí.

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Yes.

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And where will the heating element be?

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I'm not sure what you're planning to use, but where will it be vented?

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will it be vented through the roof

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or how are you planning

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to account for the

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venting? Muy bien, y

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el elemento que usted va a utilizar para

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calentar y cocinar, no sabemos

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no se sabe que se va a usar, pero

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¿por dónde lo va a

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ventilar? ¿A través del techo o

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qué tipo de, qué método va a utilizar?

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Yo

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ya había hecho el diseño con

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So I spoke with an architect about the design, they're going to take care of it, but it's

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not, there's not going to be any change to the structure in itself.

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Okay, do you have any plans of the layout for this

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Proposed use

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Yes

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Can you show it?

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that's that's the front of the store

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this is much very helpful

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so one of the questions would be the tables and chairs would indicate that people are going to sit

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there and eat am i correct

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it's mostly for waiting actually

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okay or if they need to study there or something again says dining area on your

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plan yes yes yes yes but if if you that i can take this one here

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Yeah, but if I can't have this here then I then and I'll take it away

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Okay

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No, um, do you where where's this counter that you were?

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but it's in the property

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okay and is there a

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basement

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yes

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and what are you going to have in the basement

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maybe a storage

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or offices but

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i'm not sure

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with the best basement

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all right

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because i'm not and mike you can

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tell whether there's any signs

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of the venting the basement employee bathroom food storage employee locker room and storage

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yeah i'm not oh yellow bossa right next to the bathroom on the first floor it says display

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service area and then they've got a display case at the bottom right hand corner which means they're

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probably just going to have some display right across there like a deli counter kind of thing

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like a deli counter kind of thing but they don't show any any other equipment on the plan so i

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But they don't show any other equipment.

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don't know you know right and just as a comment in terms of how you're going to be able to

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We're going to need to have commercial equipment, and you're going to need to have venting if you're going to have like a stove that you're going to use, or if you're going to have like one of those frying machines.

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Muy bien. Entonces, solamente para una idea de cómo va a operar. Va a necesitar tener, por la forma que va a estar operando, va a necesitar tener equipo comercial.

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So if you have a commercial equipment, then you need to have ventilation for the stove, or if you have to fry it, also for ventilation for everything.

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Sure, sure. Yes, it's correct.

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I mean, this is speaking like as the health department, because I used to do some of this kind of stuff, but you're going to need, you know, like the three-bay sink, you're going to need, or, you know, and you're going to need like a,

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a dishwasher, which

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you know, again, it's a commercial

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type. So, you know, you're going to need

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to have the layout

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and I'm not seeing anything

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like that here, so it's a little

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hard to tell how this will

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operate and how much venting

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you're going to need, but you're going to

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you're going to need to have that

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and I'm not seeing that on these plans

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and that's of concern.

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Muy bien, sí, entonces mire, y aquí

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estoy hablando porque yo trabajé en el Departamento de Salud

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por mucho tiempo, pero va a necesitar

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diferentes tipos de equipo, como por

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ejemplo el lavaplatos, que ese sería un

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lavaplatos del estilo comercial, y eso no

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lo veo como está dentro de los planos,

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porque no es establecido dentro de los

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planos. Entonces sí es un poquito

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difícil si va a tener máquinas, se va a

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necesitar ventilación, entonces sí es

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It's hard to visualize it, because it's not in the plan.

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And that's what I'm worried about a little bit.

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In fact, I have another business that sells food.

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So, we have to have, as she said, to have to have the dishes,

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we have to have to have something to do with the water,

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to have the water, to have other things that need to be done for labor.

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Yeah. So as a matter of fact, I have another business and that sells food.

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And yes, I know that we're going to need a dishwasher place, you know, the place where you could drain the water appropriately, a place where you would wash the mops and other stuff.

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The hand washing sink.

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Yes.

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Can we go back to your plans?

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Can we go back to your plans, please?

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Go quick.

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Rapidito.

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The far left.

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Is that the first or second floor?

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La parte izquierda.

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El extremo izquierdo.

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Interpreted.

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Could you repeat that?

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You said the far left.

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Is that the far left?

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Is that the second floor?

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Is this the second floor?

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Yes.

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This one?

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Yes.

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The food prep is going to be on the second floor

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with a family dwelling behind it?

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No.

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The plan on the far left

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is the roof plan.

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It's basically the site plan.

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That's all that is.

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I was just a little confused.

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With the hot and cold prep.

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That's just like the prep.

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No, eso lo mete solo en los planos del segundo piso.

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No es nada de eso.

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Ah, ya entendí.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Gracias.

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I just have one question.

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Go ahead, Michael.

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Is the refusal incorrect?

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Because the refusal says of foods, retail sales, beverages, and grocery.

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But there's no grocery here.

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Sí, porque quería saber si el rechazo estaba incorrecto, porque dice acá que es una venta al pormenor de alimentos, bebidas y otros productos, pero no veo los otros productos.

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Eso vienen siendo las papitas, cositas como papitas y también jugos. Eso viene siendo más o menos el grocery.

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So the groceries would be like the chips, like the juice.

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it's so the groceries would be like the chips uh like the juices and things like that juice boxes

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things like that or fruits things like that so are you so are there are the things that you're

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selling that like grocery items are those things to go with the food that you're cooking

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ahora las cosas que va a vender como los otros productos que va a estar vendiendo las frutas

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y los chips y los papitas

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y todo eso. ¿Eso es para acompañar

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con la comida que usted va a estar

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vendiendo?

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¿Cómo

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quien dice? Sí.

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Muchas veces, también por

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aquí, por el área, hay muchos

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niños que le gustan

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comprar papitas,

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otras personas que le gustan comprar

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frutas, que no quieren

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comer algo porque ahora mismo no se sienten

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por comer sándwich o cosas

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Yeah. I mean, the thing is that in the area, there are a lot of kids, for example, that just

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want to buy the chips or maybe people that don't want to buy like a sandwich. They just want

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something like a fruit or something like that. Okay. So I'm a little concerned that the use

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category here is not correct. I think this is more of, it sounds like this is more of a takeout

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restaurant as opposed to a grocery store. I don't see aisles where regular groceries are being

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sold, just items that you would see at a typical takeout restaurant that are sold to go with your

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meal. Y que me parece que me parece aquí de que la categoría no está correctamente utilizado

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porque no es como una tienda en sí donde porque no veo no veo pasillos no veo nada es donde la

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gente va y elige lo que quiere llevar, sino que son

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como artículos que la gente,

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es más, me parece como un restaurante para

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llevar.

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Dile que quiera en un segundito.

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El de mi huaseca.

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Además, un momento.

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do you see the refusal

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right i see that's what the refusal says and i see that's what was put on your application

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but that doesn't mean that that's the actual use that that you're asking for it appears that

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the wrong use may have been requested and so ellen i put the use you requested on the refusal

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but that that really isn't what you're doing at the property it sounds like the main focus

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is cooking or preparing different types of meals and sandwiches for people and if that's the case

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that is a restaurant not a grocery store.

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yes like it says here it says more here like half food right so you you can sell as you can sell

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hot foods as part of a grocery store but it can only be a small portion of it if it's more than

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a certain percent and i'd have to ask what percent but if it's more than a certain percent then it is

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considered a takeout restaurant and not a grocery store si es correcto usted puede ponerlo puede

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venderlo en una tienda en una tienda en sí lo puede vender sin embargo eso solamente puede ser

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como una pequeña porción pero cuando es mayor de esa porción entonces en ese caso ya se consigue

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tengo que preguntarle el qué porción es pero en ese caso si es un mayor de esa porción ya se

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considera, tendría que colocarlo como un restaurante

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en sí.

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Sí, yo creo que lo que tiene que hacer

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primero es, lo siguiente

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que tiene que hacer en este momento es

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ingresar una

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carta donde

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se haga una enmienda al rechazo

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yo no frente frente fili latin 6 que

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you know uh frente a frente philly latin 6

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que es el restaurante que está es grocery

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en restaurant que está frente a frente al negocio

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es más o menos así

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yeah so the the so the store that's right across

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that's right in front of right across the business

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it's more or less like this

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pero no venden sandwich

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ellos solo venden aquí se vende

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yeah but i i don't i don't know that that we we still have to have this one straight so

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uh we want to see what if there's any comments from the audience or

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where do i need to send the amended letter for the amended refusal letter

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we will provide you the email addresses in the chat

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and hillary will have a resumptive hearing with to put this or do we want to go to the audience

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the virtual audience

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we can do a resumptive hearing yes i think that would be the most appropriate in this case

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All right, so she'll take care of the letter, things of that nature. We're going to have schedule a resumptive hearing, and that will be on 1 13 26 at 9 30 a.m.

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Muy bien, entonces vamos, le vamos a mandar la carta. Vamos a volver con eso. Vamos a hacer una reunión de revisión y esa reunión de revisión va a ser en el 1 de enero 13 del 2026 a las 9 y 30 de la mañana.

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Okay, I have some updated drawings, I mean some clearer, you know what I mean, drawings, I don't know we can ask for that.

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So I think what you need to do is you have to put on the drawings what you intend to do there.

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And the architect will know how to do that.

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And the architect will know how to do that.

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okay interpreter thank you very much we appreciate your time and uh thank you for sitting through

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the fire drill and everything else and uh we'll we'll see you uh shortly thank you

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we're going to move to number seven mi2025 000025 6617 algard street kevin valentine is the attorney

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good morning commissioners good morning good morning morning pull that closer to you

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it'll come right up to you right hi could you please state your name and spell it for the

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stenographer kevin k-e-v-i-n valentine v-a-l-e-n-t-i-n-e attorney for the property owner

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wang maizian right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the

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truth i do our board secretary cheryl l gaston has a few questions for you uh good morning council

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did you submit your documents uh for this hearing five days in advance

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and uh do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy

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thank you yes you may proceed and share your screen

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Well, I'll get to my narrative initially.

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My client is trying to erect a pergola in her front yard, and she's seeking a variant

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from Zoning Regulation 14701 that stipulates that any structure for an RSA-5 property,

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the setback for that structure be no longer or shorter than setbacks on the immediately

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adjacent properties. The issue here is that there are no pergolas on the immediately adjacent

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properties however there are a number of pergolas in the um surrounding blocks one on that block

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and one on the surround two on the surrounding blocks that have no adjacent pergolas

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so now and as you as you start as you make your presentation we we've had some comments this

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morning as we've started to look at the case that we have two different there's a photograph that

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That is a just a fence.

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a fence and then we see a photograph where it's behind a large

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And then we see a photograph where it's behind a large.

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bamboo fence. As you make your presentation

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just try to explain this. Okay, I'm just going to try to pull up what

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you said there was a photograph

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with... Yes, so when you had

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submitted some documents initially when this case was listed

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there was photos of the pergola already built

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and a three-foot chain-link fence around it,

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which was consistent with the plans.

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The photos that were submitted for today

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show about a six-foot-plus opaque bamboo fence

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around the pergola, so you can't even see the pergola.

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And that was not in the plans,

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and that was not included in the scope of work here.

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So that is something that would need to be addressed separately.

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I think, yeah, I think that the bamboo fence was put up because the owner didn't want the construction of the pergola to be like a distraction to the neighborhood.

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So that was just something that they temporarily put up.

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The chain link fence still exists directly behind that bamboo encasing.

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Yeah, but all the pictures that were submitted just showed that fence, not what was behind the fence for today's hearing.

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So that's why it was a bit confusing.

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It looked like they had added a fence because the prior pictures showed the pergola already built as well as the chain link fence.

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The pergola has been erected.

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The chain link fence is there.

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As I said, that bamboo fencing was a temporary thing just so when they have their workers coming in that it wouldn't disturb onto the street.

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But it looked like it was put up after the pergola was built.

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that's that was the confusing thing so i don't understand why it's why it's addressing

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if it's a construction thing because it's our it's already been built you just leave it on

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just leave it on okay all right great great great the um why don't you start showing your photos

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okay all right have that discussion while we're doing okay

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This is the, oh, you can't see that.

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I can see it on my screen.

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I'm trying to get it to yours.

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No.

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All right, okay, let's see.

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Screen button, bottom of the screen.

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No, I don't have one.

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Let's see, I've extended.

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so Kevin why don't we do this

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if you're having a hard time

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why don't you maybe go in the back

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and figure out what's going on

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we'll bring you back

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thank you

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Sure.

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Number one.

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MI 2024-004-415-5338 Walnut Street.

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George Gossett, Jr. is the attorney for the owner.

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There's a letter of support from the West Philadelphia Economic Development Council.

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and council member got the a has sent a letter indicating that they had no well okay we we

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believe that we do have that good morning can you hear me yes i can sir could you please turn on

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your video. Yep. Good morning. Good morning. Could you please state your name and spell for

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the stenographer? Yep. Attorney George Gossett Jr., Supreme Court number 82983. I'm the attorney

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of Brick by Brick Properties, which is owned by Nafisa Woodlock. All right. Do you swear or affirm

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to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you, sir.

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Very good.

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Good morning, counsel. Did you submit your documents to the Zoning Board five days in advance of this year?

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Good morning, counsel.

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Good morning.

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Did you submit your documents to the...

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I do. I do.

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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I do.

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Thank you. Counsel, you may proceed and share your screen.

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So this is a appeal of a variance, variance refusal of dated June 16, 2024.

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My client became the owner of the property by deed dated March 20, 2024.

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24. As was already stated, there was an RCO meeting in which the RCO found that they were in favor of the project. The long and short of this is this is a property 53, 55.

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So, counsel, why don't you share your screen?

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Okay, I'm sorry. I'll go.

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Yeah, sure, sure. Share your screen and then you can.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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i'm just looking at how to okay here we go all right

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you're coming up now it should be up in a minute okay

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Give me one second.

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Thank you.

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Okay, here we go.

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Okay, so this is the subject property.

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53 38 walnut it is uh it was originally purchased as a it was a it is zoned as a single family home

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but it was set up as an actual duplex at the time in which my client purchased the property

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not knowing it not knowing that that it was not properly zoned so it has uh two floors

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I'm showing you pictures now.

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So the second floor has three bedrooms.

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bedrooms, the first floor has two bedrooms.

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So as you can see, there was some work started, but the work stopped when it was determined

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that it was not properly zoned as a duplex.

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What my client is asking is that the property

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can be properly zoned as a duplex

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in which she will rent out the second floor

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as a three-bedroom apartment

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and the first floor

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as a second, as a

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two-bedroom apartment.

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There will be

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street parking

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and there will

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also be a place on the side

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for trash cans.

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Counsel, do you have drawings

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counsel do you have drawings of how it's laid out no we don't we don't have any drawings only

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of how it's laid out?

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thing that we have are actual pictures but it's just two two floors the first floor being the

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first floor apartment and the second floor being the the second floor apartment

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and you're saying the second floor has three bedrooms that's correct

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seeing how big the property is the actual square footage yeah um i can check it real quick but i

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believe it's somewhere in the neighborhood probably about um well let me check it i don't

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want i don't want to just just say my client is uh is here also okay well we'll eventually

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bring him on to adopt your test. Yeah. I will check it real quick.

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How about the rest of the block? Is the rest of the block multiple family?

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I am not sure about that. Uh, there are, there are, uh, properties on the block that appear

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to be duplexes, but I don't know what their

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legal setup is.

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So why don't you bring your client on and maybe you could ask them

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a few questions. My client's name is

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Nafisa Woodlock. I think she should be in the

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waiting room.

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Okay.

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I see no one in the audience with that name.

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Oh, never mind.

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And Chairman, to answer your question in terms of the square footage,

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property is 1,440 square feet.

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Let's say that one more time.

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The square footage of the property is 1,440 square feet, sitting on a 1,718 square foot

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line.

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We see the client.

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Yeah, they've been promoted to panelists.

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All right, thank you.

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yes hi could you please state your name as bell for the stenographer

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yes my visa woodlock n-y-f-e-e-s-a woodlock w-o-o-d-o-o-c-k you swear or firm to tell

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truth told truth nothing but the truth yes please proceed counsel good morning mr whatlock

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there was a question pertaining to um

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the actual uh block itself are you familiar if there are any other um

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duplexes on that block um far as that block i believe i can see that there's one i know the

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next hundred. There are a lot of triplexes and duplexes on the next hundred. The property I have

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is also the next street is a corner store there. And then I know directly across from my property

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is also, I believe, a home daycare. Okay. All right. And I've already expressed this to the

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panel, but with regards to the apartments, you plan to do a three-bedroom apartment on the second

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floor and a two-bedroom apartment on the first floor? Yes, keeping the existing structure that

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I purchased it as. Okay. And what is your plan with regards to parking and with regards to

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trash pickup? Well, there's street parking. And then if you look at the picture that's on the

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side where the gates are, those are where I'll have two designated trash cans for trash day.

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Okay. And with regards to tenants,

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tenants? Would this be for low income tenants or what is your mindset with regards to your tenants?

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I think I'm open to low-income tenants or regular tenants. I haven't really decided on that part yet. I'm sure that's going to be another process as far as getting into this point.

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I think I'm open to low income tenants.

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With regards to the utilities, how are the utilities set up at this point?

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It's electric there.

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Are the units separated?

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yes everything is um split there and was that the the condition that the property was in at

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the time which you purchased it yes because i believe someone was already the person was living

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um they had to build them for some years now they were already living upstairs and i guess they

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couldn't you know afford to finish the rest of it and they just sold the whole property

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okay all right everything is split it um all right all right okay questions from the board

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uh go ahead go ahead okay uh living in the basement no living in the basement

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no living in the basement uh it's a little hard to understand how you have a three-bedroom and

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a two-bedroom when you've only got 1,400 square feet. Without a plan, it's kind of hard to

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see both those size units working in 1,400 square feet. So that's kind of my issue.

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The units, actually, it's not really crammed in there. Everything is a pretty decent

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size

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I mean that's

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really all I can kind of say

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about that

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those are my

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just two comments

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and my comments

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are the same

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we can't tell

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from what you say

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what is going on here

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is there any more

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pictures because it's also like

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No, the pictures are not helping.

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We need to see a plan, a layout of how this is laid out so that we can tell what is really being proposed here.

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So we'll hold the vote on this.

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Yeah.

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But is there any other questions from the board?

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hillary what what what i would like to do with this is to close it except for plans

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okay right i i i did have a question so the the property zoned rsa3 which requires off

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street accessory parking but i didn't see a refusal for that is there parking at the property

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no no there's not okay all right so that refusal was missing i just wanted to note that for the

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record but we can i think we can go to the virtual audience and get to planning right

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all right questions or comments from the virtual audience i do not see any hands mr chair questions

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or comments from the planning commission thank you chairman and good morning david fecto f-e-c-t-e-a-u

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with the city planning commission do you swear or affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but

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the truth yes sir i do please proceed thank you sir chairman and board members the comprehensive

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plan recommends no change to the rsa3 residential single family zoning at this location the city

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changed the zoning maps in this neighborhood in 2022 in accord with recommendations in the

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comprehensive plan in february 2006 an owner applied for a use variance for two dwelling units

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for this property there is no evidence that the zoning board granted that variance at that time

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after this an owner appears to have converted this property into two dwelling units without

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the benefit of permits so the city planning commission recommends the board grant the

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proposed legalization of two dwelling units and proposed uh variance for uh for off-street

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accessory parking okay so we're going to hold the vote on this and um i'm going to close close the

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record except for drawings that would uh appropriately show the first and second floor

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and you know obviously we would want to see what kind of space the bedrooms etc are okay

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so um hillary should we give this like three weeks um sure we can do that that would be

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give me one second mr chair that would be november 5th okay so so cancel november 5th at 9 30

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okay so so council november 5th at 9 30 uh we'll vote on this but we'll have to have

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uh we'll vote on this

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the documents you know prior because we'd want to look at them in

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executive session before we vote okay okay very good all right thank you very much all right thank

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you george you ready for me oh i'm sorry yeah kevin i'm sorry kevin

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As long as it works.

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Please proceed, sir.

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And just for the record, this is 6617 Alguard Street.

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Kevin Valentine is the attorney.

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We were talking about the bamboo fence, and I'm just trying to pop up a picture of that.

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Well, we want your whole presentation up.

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and

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here's my appeal application

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it's not

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yes please please please

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there we go

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is this, this is what I want to share. Okay.

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Okay. All right. And then I'm going to share that.

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Okay. We know you're, we have your application for appeal. Yes. Okay.

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We move on. All right. Would you like to see the refusal?

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We have it. We're okay with the refusal as long as you're comfortable with it.

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Yes. I'm comfortable with all of that. Yes. All right. So

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So here, take this out.

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Well, then should we go back to the photo that you were referencing?

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Sure.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Let's go back to that.

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Here we go.

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Okay.

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all right this is the um photograph that you were referring to the original photograph

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Yes.

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You can see that?

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Right, okay.

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And now we're moving on to the later photograph.

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Let me see if I can bring that up.

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This is the photograph that you were referring to, the fencing, right.

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the um as i said the um the applicants um put the bamboo fencing up because they were doing

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digging and things like that because what they're going to do is place a garden there

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and they didn't want all of that to disturb you know folks walking by but is there intention

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that's a temporary is the fence there now is the which one the one i'm looking at now the bamboo

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fence is there now that would come down once they've completed their gardening and you know

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setting of the garden. Behind that bamboo fence is that

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chain link fence that was in the plants. That structure right there

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is merely temporary. They only put it there so that, you know, the dirt and things

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I guess the point is, it looks like you put the pergola

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up, right? The pergola was up. And then you

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fenced it in after it was up. Well, it was fenced in originally

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with the chain link fence. Right, right. The bamboo went up after.

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right the bamboo went up after because they were doing some digging and things like that

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didn't want the soil and all of that to get on the sidewalk so they were just trying to protect

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the um the sidewalk from you know the debris and the dirt that would come down but that is

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a temporary structure okay um i want to go through the rest of your presentation okay all right um

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As I was saying, the variance was due to 17401's prohibition for an RSA-5 property that did not match the setbacks for immediately adjacent properties.

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What we have in this...

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One to show is the pergola, right?

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Okay, all right.

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The pergola on 617.

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The pergola on 617.

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the

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The pergola that...

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The one you're talking about.

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Yes, right, right, right.

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Sure.

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Go.

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Pergola.

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That's the pergola.

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And as you can see, that chain link fence is existing.

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What they put up around it was that bamboo fence

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because they're going to be digging to create the garden.

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And as you can see on either side, there are no other structures,

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so that's why they were not in compliance with 17401.

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And there's other pergolas on the block, you say?

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Yes, there are.

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In the front of the house like that?

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Yes, yes, yes, I'll show you those.

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Here we have 6520 Algard, you can see the pergola there and you can see on either side

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there are no um structures and now i'll go to um walker street which is one of the surrounding

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one of the surrounding blocks okay here we go

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6618 walker you can see the pergola with the white fencing and on either side

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there is no structure okay and uh here we go

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one more

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66 oh here we go

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that's the one 6603 yep yeah 6603 walkers same same position so the um the rco basically you

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know once we presented they said you know pergolas are characteristics of these neighborhoods

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and um as long as the um owners here made sure that no debris came on to the um came on to the

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sidewalk and as long as you know any plant um dead plants were you know cleaned up they had

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no problem those were the only provisos that they provided on their um approval letter why don't you

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bring your client on sorry bring your client on my client's not here yeah but i mean they're not

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online no they're not my client is asian and just okay all right so you're an officer of the court

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more yes your touch money yes from the board um okay

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so i understand that the community group didn't seem to have a problem with this but yes um i

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guess i'm concerned about the later added fence which you say is temporary which we that can't

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know well i mean the board could add a proviso that that come down and they would agree with

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that because it was always temporary they just didn't want as the um um the rco said well we

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don't want any debris i said okay we'll put this fence up while we're digging up this garden and

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that sort of thing but that's a temporary fence but if you already had a fence why did they need

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because it was because it was a chain link fence and debris and dirt can kind of come over the

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chain link fence is the permanent fence but it didn't protect against them doing their gardening

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and pulling up, you know, plants and things like that.

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You can put tarps around chain-link fences.

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That kind of thing.

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That's what they do with construction sites.

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I mean, these are not professional construction folks,

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but that's what they did.

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But still, I mean, I'm having a little problem with that.

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And then question, did your client talk to the next-door neighbor?

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Are they in?

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Yes, yes.

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the neighbors were a part of the community meeting and

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they had no problem. I mean, did they speak to their

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next door neighbor and ask them if they were

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in favor of this? Just because people come to a meeting doesn't necessarily

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mean that they are the immediately adjoining.

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Right. Their neighbors were and are aware of what they're doing.

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That's not my question. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. I want to ask you a question.

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is is the neighbor next door to this have you talked did your did your client or did you talk

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Have you talked, did your client, or did you talk to them and ask them if they agreed to this?

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to them and ask

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The answer is yes.

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You talked to them?

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My clients talked to their neighbors and said, no, there's no, the neighbors have no problem.

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So my clients talk to the neighbors.

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I have not spoken to the neighbors.

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The interaction that I had with the neighbors was at the RCO, but my client, I'm sorry.

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Thank you. That's not my question. I didn't ask about all the neighbors, the immediately adjoining neighbor. Did your client speak with their neighbor and get their approval, permission, okay?

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Yes. The answer to that is yes.

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And this is your testimony here?

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Yes.

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Okay. All right. Thank you.

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Other questions from the board?

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i guess the only the only comment that i have is that the um all of the other pergolas that you

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showed were sort of store-bought sort of pergolas that you know like from home depot or wherever

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and they're although they're they're they're kind of semi-permanent right because they could come

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down in the winter especially the ones that have the tarps and everything and i've seen people do

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that um and and the one that that your client has is really sort of a more permanent structure and

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appears to be sort of taller and just just more um more prominent than uh the other ones that that

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that you sort of showed so i mean that that's just a just a comment okay

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okay okay do you have a question okay um questions or comments from our attorney

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not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience

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i do not see any hands mr chair planning commission thank you chairman and good

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morning david effecto with the city planning commission chairman and board members the

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comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning from the existing rsa 5 residential single family

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the city rezoned this neighborhood in 1990 and a council supported map change the proposed

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pergola in the front yard will not injure the use of adjacent properties the city planning

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commission recommends that the board grant a proposed variance for placing a pergola in the

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required front yard council we're going to we're going to talk about this on the uh 29th right

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We'll vote it at 930, but we're going to take it to executive session and just talk about the whole concept.

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Okay?

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Okay.

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All right, and thank you for wading through the fire drill.

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We appreciate it.

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Thank you.

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And thank you for wading through my technical non-expertise.

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Appreciate it.

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Thank you.

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Number two, MI 2024-004-752-1923 East Allegheny Avenue.

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Mark Feynman is the attorney.

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um meeting was held on november 7th before harrogate civic association we do not have

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proof of mailing we have we have a letter from them at all no okay

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i'm making as a panelist now mr chair

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good morning morning council could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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Yes, thank you.

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Good morning.

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My name is Mark Feynman, M-A-R-K, F as in Frank, E-I-N-M-A-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?

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Yes.

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My client, it's a business company.

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The name of the company is DEMA, D-E-M-A, Realty, Inc., and the representative for the

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company, this owner of the company, his name is Haytham, H-A-Y-T-H-A-M, and the last name

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A-Y-A-A.

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Thank you.

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A-Y-A-D, I beg your pardon, Ayad.

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All right.

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Our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you, sir.

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Good morning, counsel.

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Good morning.

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Did you submit your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes.

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I will also notify that we did receive contact from the board's counsel requesting some additional documents, which were supplied as soon as we received the notification.

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And the last notification was late yesterday, so those documents were sent over this morning.

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Thank you. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stay late to its accuracy?

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stay late to its accuracy?

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Yes.

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Okay, thank you.

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You can now share your screen and proceed with your case.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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I will ask for a brief moment here while I pull up the documents.

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okay I believe the screen is able to be seen now I just check to verify we do

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not see it you do not see so yeah I think you open your documents and you

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hit the green button at the bottom

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Okay, one more moment here, my apologies, my documents, okay.

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Mr. Feynman, why don't we do this? Why don't you figure that out? And I'll tell you, I have two other cases left, so I'm going to try to keep it moving. I'll come back to you in about 10 minutes. Okay?

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Thank you.

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You can get those documents up. Thank you very much, sir.

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You're welcome.

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So number nine, MI 2025-002-157, 4520-40 Wirth Street, Justin Crick is the attorney.

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There's a letter of support from Frankfort Neighborhood Advisory Committee.

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Good morning, members of the board.

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Hi, counsel. How are you? Please state your name and spell for the stenographer.

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Yes, Justin Crick, J-U-S-T-I-N, last name K-R-I-K.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Do you identify your client, the relationship to the property?

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Yes, my client is Archetype Paint Studios through James Turani, who I believe is on the call.

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and they are a tenant at the property.

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Okay, our board secretary,

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Cheryl L. Gaston,

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has a few questions for you, sir.

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Good morning, counsel.

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Good morning.

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Did you submit your documents

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five days in advance of this hearing?

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I did.

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal

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and stipulate to his accuracy?

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Yes.

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Thank you.

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You can proceed,

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share your screen

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and proceed with your case. Thank you very much.

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Members of the board, thank you for

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entertaining this application today.

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Tarani Paintworks, or I'm sorry, Archetype Paint Studios, also

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formerly Tarani Paintworks, has been operating

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at the property 4520 through 40 Worth Street in

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Building F for quite some time. We were before this panel

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or the zoning board about two years ago where this use was granted with two-year proviso.

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So what's unique about this project and application is that the application is for

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intensive industrial use vehicle paint shop as the code has certain classifications that

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were limited to.

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However, what you were actually going to see and may have seen or recall from the past

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is that the type of paint and finishing that's being done here

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is for artistic purposes, for commissioned works, and not for vehicles.

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So as you can see, we've received the refusals.

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I'll actually jump down to here.

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It's a little clearer that the intensive industrial use is prohibited

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and vehicle paint shops are prohibited.

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But you will also note that back in 2021,

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this was granted with proviso that recently expired,

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and we've just been pending and waiting moving forward.

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There are other, plenty of other uses at the property, and if I jump real quick to this picture, you'll see that we are only building F of this property, which has several other commercial uses built in with it.

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For geographic purposes, that whole conglomerate of properties right here is located along Worth and Torsdale.

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You can see it here, a satellite view, and we are over here within this complex, Building F.

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You can see it here, a satellite view, and we are over here within this conference.

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From the outside, again, this is a sprawling set of commercial buildings, different viewpoints,

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but what's more important is narrowing in right about here.

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You'll see that this is where our place is.

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These are before photos prior to the last.

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You'll see now that we have some roll-up doors and appropriate entrance stuff secured, etc.

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There is postings on the property already, maybe a little ahead of time, but things are moving forward.

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So as I indicated, this is the location within the site plan of the area.

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And here is what we're talking about.

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So Mr. Tarani did not create the sculpture itself, but he is the party who painted it, who did all the spray work and paint work.

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And I do want to just drop down because I have to say I found it very enjoyable to look around for photos.

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But this is some of the inaction type of things that we're talking about.

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There are no cars coming in and out of this property.

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This is strictly for artistic purposes.

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So to make things a little bit quicker here, this is what it looked like before this board granted the last variance.

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It was a pretty empty space.

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we had plans that showed the situation with the raised platform and the spray

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booth and all of the technical parts that came in with that and the exhaust

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and as it stands today here is your paint booth you can see that everything

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is very clean and there's adequate exhaust mechanisms we also do have a

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little bit later I'll show you he's got his certifications for air purification

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from the city of Philadelphia. It's a really beautiful space. And we did have a meeting with

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the Frankfurt NAC on September 11th. Here's a copy of our notice that went out. And as you'll

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see from their response, they have complied, since we have complied with all certifications and no

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issues from any residents, they are granting or at least supporting this application. Notable that

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they said 10 people arrived, but none were able to vote. But either way, I mean, I think the

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questions that the Frankfurt NAC asked of us regarding inspections and compliance were all

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met and answered appropriately. This is just an exemplar page of the lease that my client has.

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It does last until 2026 with an option to renew. I did submit the completed semi-redacted version

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to the board as well under separate cover,

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but it's not part of this

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because it just takes too many pages up at the moment.

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Tehrani Paintworks Inc. has the commercial activity license.

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And here's the air pollution license,

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which is current and active.

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I did read on here, it is,

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this one was obtained in March

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and I believe, yeah, expires at the end of this month,

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but we're already in the process of renewal and so forth.

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There are no taxes due on the property, even though we're just a tenant.

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We want to make sure that's clear.

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Again, notice of posting for this was put up a long, long time ago or right about when it was sent to us, but well in advance on all the exterior areas.

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And then I just wanted to highlight this was the last refusal we had originally back from 2021.

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So it was the idea of industrial use again. And this was the letter back in 2021 where the Frankfurt NAC had asked for a one-year proviso. This board was very gracious in offering a two-year proviso.

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I will state that today we're asking that this be just granted without any provisional matters, and that if the occupant obviously fails to comply with L&I or any other environmental requirements or so, that there is a method of grievance for the neighborhood or for L&I to cite at that time, but to not have the expense or requirement to come back again in the future.

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And then we just have proof of mailings of all of the notices and the receipt.

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As I indicated, Mr. Tarani should be available on the call, and I'm happy to entertain any questions from the board.

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Mr. Tarani.

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Mr. Tarani, if you're still available in the virtual audience, please raise your hand.

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Thank you.

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Okay, they should be coming back in as a panel. Sure. Thank you very much. Sure.

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I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, James. Thank you.

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so uh for the stenographer to swear you in can you please state your name and spell your name

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So, uh, for the stenographer to swear you in, can you please state your name?

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And so

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for the record james terani t-e-r-r-a-n-i you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

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nothing but the truth yes please proceed counsel yes mr terani um are you the principal of the

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the this business yes all right have you had an opportunity to hear my testimony to the board

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today? Yes. Was my testimony true and accurate to the best of your knowledge? Yes. And would you

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adopt my testimony as if it was your own? Yes. Okay. Unless there's anything else that you would

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like to add to the board, or if the board has any questions for you, I appreciate you joining the

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call. Thank you. Questions from the board? I don't have a question. I have a comment.

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This place is so clean and so, you know, I didn't, I didn't know what I was going to see, but I'm very impressed. And it looks like you're, you're not quite fish or fowl, because I would think that this would be something that could be covered under the artist and industrial sort of category.

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And obviously, because of the paint booth, that's not how Illinois looks at it.

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So just comments, not any kind of real objection to what you're doing.

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Well, I do, I guess, ask your paint disposal practices and all of that are in accord with whatever needs to be done for this, correct?

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because this is auto paint this is it looks like specialized kind of paint for the artwork that's

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being done yes any any uh materials that require disposal appropriately we go through safety clean

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and uh it's very uh very few and far between that we have to use it but we do when necessary

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okay all right thank you any other compliments from the board

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questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr chair questions or

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comments from the virtual audience i do not see any hands mr chair planning commission

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thank you chairman and board members and good morning david vecto with the city planning

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commission chairman and board members the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the

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IRMX industrial and residential mixed use zoning at this location the city rezoned this neighborhood

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in 2014 in accord with recommendations in the comprehensive plan the requested use variances

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for intensive industrial and vehicle paint finishing shop are in keeping with a diverse

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array of businesses housed within this complex of industrial buildings the city planning commission

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recommends the board grant their proposed use variances for intensive industrial and for a

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vehicle paint finishing shop thank you mi 2025 002 157 45 20 to 40 whore street i vote yes

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michael johns these should all be this easy my vote is yes

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so gaston i agree my vote is yes ryan mcadams my vote is yes

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Ty, I win. My vote is yes.

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Thank you, counsel. Thank you.

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Thank you, members of the board.

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Thank you.

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Number 10, MI 2025-002-159-830 Avon Street.

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Vern Anastasio is the attorney.

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There was a meeting on October 14th.

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We did not have the letters up yet.

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Mr. Chair, I believe we did get a letter of opposition this morning

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from the RCO in this matter.

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In favor?

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In opposition.

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Okay.

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Vern?

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They should be coming back in shortly.

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Thank you.

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Good.

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Good morning, Mr. Chair.

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Council, have you already sworn once today?

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Could you just state your name for the record?

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Yep, it's Vern Anastasio on behalf of Nazar Kakalov.

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Okay, our Board Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you, sir.

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Thank you.

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Good morning, Council.

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Good morning.

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Did you submit your documents and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes, ma'am.

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy i do thank you you may proceed

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share your screen make your presentation thank you very much i'm going to grab my notes

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this is a uh can you see that share by the way no we don't know here you go there it is

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coming up now there it is yep this is relatively straightforward 830 avon

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uh single home right here is the aerial view from 2016 we are here because of this car

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right here that's the refusal um at some point prior to my client's purchase the garage

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was converted to more living space, additional living space, as part of the single-family home.

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And that owner then parked his car right here, as you can see, in 2016, right there.

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And for a decade, that car stood there, right here, again, right here with my...

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And then my client, very young, English is not his first language, believed he was buying the benefit of the bargain, purchased the property, and lo and behold, someone then decides to call L&I once it changed hands, and he got a violation for the car.

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So we are here for the car, for the parking spot. That is considered parking. When you park in your driveway, it's considered parking in the front lawn, which is not allowed.

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And that is why the refusal for the legalization of one, the addition actually is the garage, but the actual refusal, we are refused for the surface parking space.

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That's it. That is the singular issue before the board today.

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And. Let me show you some plans.

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As you can see, here's the parking spot right here.

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This is all existing.

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And the conversion of the garage, again, was done by a previous owner.

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These are single-family homes.

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And by the way, other neighbors park their cars on their driveways on a regular basis.

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But nevertheless, L&I was called.

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They had to come out.

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Now, L&I did go through the property, by the way, as well.

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Now, there's everything inside the property is in compliance.

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So therefore, I'm not I object to the letter that was sent by the RCO.

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We can get into that a little more later.

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It's I object on relevance grounds because it's not relevant.

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They're talking about use when we were talking about parking.

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And it's also inaccurate.

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And as far as what transpired last night at the RCO meeting.

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And I have witness testimony as to verify that as well.

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But that's what we're looking for.

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It's rather simple.

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And here's some interior photos of the property as well.

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Some exterior.

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here. But the garage itself was converted, like I said, just additional living space

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to the single family dwelling. All of that was inspected by the L&I inspector, completely

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in compliance. No problem whatsoever with that. The only thing that wasn't in compliance is because

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that garage has been converted to part of the single-family residence, the car in the driveway

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is considered a space that needs to be legalized. There's the RCO letter that went out.

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And we had, let's see here, 92 individual households were mailed.

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The vote itself was rather close, considering where this took place.

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As you can see, it's on like a small cul-de-sac type area, large lot.

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a car in the driveway does not negatively impact anybody and for my client to be penalized

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And for my client to be penalized for something that was done by a previous owner, just would be a gross injustice here in this particular case.

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for something that

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With that, I'd like to bring my client on to adopt my testimony.

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Okay.

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Nazar Kokolov.

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Yeah, Tatiana Melnick has raised her hand. They're being brought back in as a panelist.

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Hi, sir. Could you please state your name, Ms. Bell, for the stenographer?

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Hello, my name is Nazar Koklov. It's N-A-Z-A-R-K-H-O-K-H-L-O-V.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Counsel?

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Thank you. Nazar, did you hear my presentation to the board today?

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Yes.

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True and accurate to the best of your knowledge.

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Yes.

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And do you adopt it as your own testimony?

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Yes.

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Thank you. Mr. Chair, I'm going to yield for now.

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Okay.

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So the issue is the only thing we're looking at is the parking on there.

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That's correct.

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Remember, this had a garage.

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It's required to have, the zoning requires this house to have accessory parking.

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So when they took the garage, the previous owner took the garage door off and made it part of the single family home, there's no longer accessory parking.

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Okay.

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And that's the issue.

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All right.

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All right.

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Good.

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Questions from the board.

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So can you give us an idea of what the RCO said or objected to here?

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Well, you have the letter.

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Well, we don't have it.

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Oh, you don't have the letter?

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No.

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Okay, the vote.

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Say it again?

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It came in late.

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Oh, yeah, it did, very late.

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The vote was, there were, you know, more than a dozen people supported,

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uh but a little bit more than that opposed uh the letter spoke about use they they claimed that this

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is a two-family dwelling it is not uh they claim you know they claimed that my our presentation

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spoke about a two-family dwelling it did not we we never even discussed that so uh i and again we

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could bring on fact witnesses if you'd like but i don't like to but irrelevant arguments you know

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this being, you know, a legal proceeding, unless you want to get into that. But the legal issue

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here today before us is very simple. That garage is gone. This house needs accessory parking.

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The previous owner used that driveway for accessory parking, sold it to my client right

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here. And then somebody calls L&I on them. And so we just, you know, that's why we're here,

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That's surface parking lot. But as far as the substance of the RCO position, perhaps they're in the audience and maybe they can speak to it.

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If they do, then I'll be happy to rebut it with a fact witness who was at the meeting, who did the presentation on my behalf, my law partner, Attorney Harry Cook.

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he'll tell you verbatim what was presented in his exhibit binder nothing about the use as it relates

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to anything more than a single-family home though not again not that it's relevant just just a

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question okay um questions or comments it was a long answer i apologize

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guys. I've been waiting. Not at this time, Mr. Chair. Questions or comments from the

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virtual audience? Yes, Chair. I have a handle from Alice Udovich. I have promoted them.

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They will be coming back in shortly. Good morning, Alice.

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Good morning, Alice.

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Sorry about that.

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Good morning, Chairman, members of the board.

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Alice Udovich, on behalf of Councilman Brian O'Neill.

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And just for the record, Alice, spell your name.

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A-L-I-C-E-U-D-O-V-I-C-H.

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Do you swear or affirm that tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed.

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Although, as the attorney stated, it is omitted from the refusal, this property has clearly been converted to a two-family dwelling.

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Although, as the attorney stated, it is omitted from the...

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I believe in one of the photos, you can clearly see a full kitchen.

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He doesn't even mention the legalization of the addition.

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So although the garage door was converted by a previous owner, an addition was added and a full apartment on that first floor level.

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that's we we strongly oppose we strongly oppose the branding of this variance with with respect

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mr chair alice has never been in the property she doesn't know what she's talking about

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i have somebody who has been in the property ready to testify okay okay we're here for parking

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wait a minute wait a minute alice are you through yes thank you you have no questions for alice

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no it's or that the testimony is nonsense other other questions or comments from the virtual

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audience. Mr. Anastasia, I just had a quick question because there is reference to legalization

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of a rear addition. What is that rear addition? Whatever the previous owner put on, it was

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inspected and approved. The interior was inspected by an L&I examiner. It was clear that it is not a

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two-family dwelling. Everything was inspected and approved. The only thing subject to the zoning

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code to get a variance is the lack of accessory parking. I'm going to call Harry Cook, my law

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partner, on to testify as to what transpired since Alice obviously wasn't there last night.

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but i understand and respect the district council office has a duty to support the rco so with that

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if mr cook could come on and testify council he's coming back in as a panelist right now

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thank you vern were there plans showing what was legalized for the rear edition

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uh no there was no need for that okay that's odd because normally if something

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an addition is being legalized they would have required plans but it doesn't need to be legal

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it was it's already legal okay it's just mentioned specifically on the refusal that

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yep and it was and it was superfluous because the only issue uh that would generate a refusal

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was the surface parking lot and if mr cook is available he can he could swear him in we can

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get him on the record as well and he'll also speak to that addition which by the way was done

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over a decade ago

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Mr. Cook

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Hi, can everyone hear me?

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We can, could you please state your name

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and spell for the sound of it

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Harry Cook, H-A-R-R-Y

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C-O-O-K, Anastasia Law

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Do you swear or affirm

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to tell the truth, told the truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do, Mr. Chairman

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Are you willing to testify or are you going to question your partner?

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I'm going to ask him a couple questions

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just to keep it real quick

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brief. Otherwise, we'll just go on and on. Mr. Cook, can you clarify about the addition before

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we move into last night's meeting? Sure. So just to clarify the record, as Vern stated before,

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our clients purchased this property in 2020. All of the work, including the rear addition and the

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removal of the garage and the installation of the wall and the conversion of the garage to

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habitable space occurred prior to their tenure in the property. In 2022, the City of Philadelphia

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issued notice of violation for the rear addition for permits as it relates to the build, not a

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zoning violation as it relates to the build. They issued a single zoning violation as it relates to

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the parking in front. The property has been inspected several times as far back as recently

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as January of this year by LNI. There's never been a question as to the use. In the basement,

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there is a bedroom and there is a kitchenette. You have free flow from the basement to the first

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floor. It is not a separate apartment. It is not an EDU. It is family use. There's no question as

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to that. And the department has had plenty of opportunity vis-a-vis the enforcement action on

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the notice of violation that I represented the client on and negotiated a settlement with the

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city that everyone is in agreement that this is not a two-family dwelling. Otherwise, an additional

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violation would have been issued in the intervening three years and it has not

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there's no intention by our client to convert it and close off that entrance to the basement

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to make it an adu or a separate unit that is not before the board is not part of the inspection or

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unit. That is not before the board. It is not part of the inspection or violation history with this

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property. And apparently the RCO itself is just obsessed with the idea of this being a two-family

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unit, whereas they've never been to the property. They disregarded the presentation I made that

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spoke directly to, without any sort of obfuscation, that this is a single-family home. Here's how it's

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laid out. It does have a kitchenette, a bathroom and a bedroom in the basement that is accessible

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by everyone. Yet they refuse to speak, accept the veracity of my client's testimony at the RCO or

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mine, or, and just patently disregard the department's inspection history and their

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understanding of what the property is and is not, which is a single family home.

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So Ellen and I looked at the rear addition, and it was the only issue. There was no zoning problem with that. It was just a building problem that's already been resolved.

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No, that's in the process. Well, you can't resolve that. So the work of the prior owner has to be legalized vis-a-vis a permitting process.

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That can't happen until the zoning relief is granted for the parking.

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Again, that's been in place for over a decade and enjoyed by the predecessor and interest.

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So we do have our client holding the bag for work that was done by a predecessor and interest

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has already paid a fine related to that and has entered into an agreement with the city

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that has provided additional time to bring the property into compliance.

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because the city, that side, code enforcement, understands the history of this property and the

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context under which our client purchased it and is making good faith efforts to bring it into

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compliance. And again, has been there, knows it, it's on their radar. And if they wanted to issue

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a violation as to two-family use, they could. But again, that is not before this board today.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, the sole reason for RCO opposition, it seems, is some sort of fanciful idea that this is a two-family dwelling, which that property has been fully inspected, and it is not.

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And I would just like to add one additional point. There was a near neighbor across the street who was present, and I believe she was in the galley, was going to be in the galley today, who rebutted that it was not multifamily, that it's only my client's brother living in the property, that there aren't hordes of people living there.

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and

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as an officer of the court

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I will make that representation that that is what

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was stated by a near neighbor last night

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who is there at least twice a week

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and her father who lives there directly across

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the street. Is there anyone else in the

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virtual audience?

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Planning Commission.

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Hold on Mr. Chair, please

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forgive the interruption but I have a hand up from

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Chris Bordelman.

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I will allow them to speak.

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Mr. Bordelon, please unmute.

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Mr. Bordelon.

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Hello.

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Hi, sir.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Sure.

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My name is Christopher Bordelon.

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C-H-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R.

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Bordelon. B-O-R-D-E-L-O-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Could you please turn your video on and start your testing?

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Hello?

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They're coming back in as a panelist.

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Okay.

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okay uh start video hello hi could you please turn on your video

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thank you and start your testimony sir are you a neighbor uh no um i am a uh i'm a member of

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i'm a board member of the rco that dealt with this please proceed with your testimony yes so

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I wanted to clarify a couple of things about what was stated about the RCO meeting last night.

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For one thing, I don't know that it came through in the letter. Now, the letter, as you know,

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had to be prepared like very quickly because the meeting took place last night.

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I was not the one who prepared it, but I did see that it was not mentioned in the letter that there were four near neighbors who appeared last night.

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I was not the one who prepared it, but I did see that it was not mentioned in the

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Three of them voted against a variance.

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They stated that they, from what they saw, the statements by the applicant at the meeting that only one person lives at the house were incorrect.

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They said that at least four people live at the house.

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There was one near neighbor who appeared, who voted for a variance.

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that that person is actually not the person who was referred to in the testimony by Mr. Cook

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that was a person who the person that Mr. Cook is referring to was translating for

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she said that she did not live at the property across the street and that the person who did

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did not know how many people were there he said he didn't think it was too many

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that's all he said so chris why don't we do this where do you stand on this project

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i would not uh i would oppose the variance um you would oppose a variance for parking in front

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of the house that's correct okay thank you very much for taking the time to call so we appreciate

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it mr chair i just need to object to his entire testimony he's talking about how many people live

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in a house okay we're here to talk about legalizing a car okay okay vernon let me thank you is there

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anyone else in the virtual audience no further hands mr chair our planning commission thank you

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chairman and board members good afternoon david fecto with the city planning commission

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the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa2 residential single family zoning at this

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location the city rezoned this neighborhood in 1978 and a council supported map change

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an owner appears to have built accessory parking in an unlicensed addition without the benefit of

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permits the proposed legalization of accessory parking in the required front yard will not injure

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the use of adjacent property the city planning commission recommends the board grant a reposed

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variance so mi 2025 002 159 830 avon road i vote yes with proviso single household living to remain

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Ryan, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Thank you all.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Mr. Feynman

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so that's MI 2024 004752 1923 East Allegheny Avenue Mr. Feynman yes thank you very much

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Counsel, could you, how are we, we're ready to go?

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I think I am.

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I'm hoping.

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I'm hoping also.

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Why don't you start?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Good morning.

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As I've indicated, my name is Mark Feynman, and I represent the property owner, Demma Realty.

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So, Mr. Feynman, I think we would, why don't you do this?

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Why don't you show us your documents?

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That's what we need you to do.

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We already had that testimony of who you represent.

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Yes.

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excuse me sir do you see that green uh share screen button at the bottom of your zoom i do

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and i'm clicking on that now and then it will ask you just to share your entire screen click

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on that button and then it should pop up and i'm doing that and for some reason it's not

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when you click the uh green button do another window pop open for you yes

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and do what says like share window it says share desktop which is documents

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yeah and you have your documents open correct that is correct yes

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Yeah, and you have your documents open, correct?

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That is correct, yes.

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Okay, can you click on that share desktop?

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I click on that and then it says allow Zoom Workplace to share your screen.

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Open system settings.

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Oh, because this is computer.

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Is this a Mac or?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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um okay um i think i i hate to tell you this but we're gonna have to continue the case

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we we we don't really we struggle with the max trying to get them yeah if i could then request

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a short turnaround we'll we'll come in in person and present to the the board in person i i would

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say i would say you're going to have to check with the staff first you'd have to call in here

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and they'll see about when in fact they can reschedule us okay i can't i can't do it right

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now understood all right and and um thank you for trying we appreciate it and uh um we'll we'll the

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staff will do their best to get you back in here i thank you for your uh understanding greatly

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appreciate that thank you anyone in the audience whose case has not been called from the 9 30 list

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i do not see any hands raised mr chair thanks everybody for uh hold up hold up

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which one hillary

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i believe it's miss adrian fernandez yeah that's right she's been about to speak

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hello hi adrian can you hear me okay hi you have a case today um yes i'm sorry i missed

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continue this morning um is 1925 was somerset was that continued or some other action

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mr fernandez that case was continued until april 15 2026. okay thank you sorry i missed it this

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morning you can always call us after the hearing as well thank you thank you okay all right all

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thing um all right i see everybody at two o'clock and uh we all live through the fire uh drill thank

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you

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how many people

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all right thank you oh here

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good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this meeting of the

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philadelphia zoning board of adjustment with me is our board secretary cheryl l gaston

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president mr chairman our board member michael johns president mr chairman our board member

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tya winn and our board member ryan mcadams president mr chairman also here is hillary

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Emerson, our attorney, our zoning board director, Ian Haggerty, and our board administrator,

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Lakeisha Dandy.

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Recording of the hearing will be posted on the ZB website.

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By participating, you consent to be recorded.

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This is an in-person meeting with remote capabilities.

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Whether remote or in person, if you're called to speak, you must state and spell your name,

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then wait to be sworn in.

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Once you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before beginning your testimony.

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Any person may enter their appearance as an interested party.

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there are three ways you can identify the case property address on your zoom webinar you can

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see a staff member or you can call the zba appearance line by the close of business tomorrow

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call 267-270-5548 leave a message that includes your email address and the address of the property

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of the appeal following guidance is for remote attendees when directed you must raise your

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virtual hand in order to be recognized to speak. If you're called to testify, you'll

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be prompted to join as a panelist. Please accept the request and turn on your camera.

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The webinar Q&A is for questions about the hearing. Do not comment on cases in the Q&A.

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If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

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For our in-person attendees, please refrain from talking, eating, or drinking. Verbal

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and physical aggression will not be tolerated restrooms are across from the elevator a water

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fountain is just down the outside the room to the right when speaking on the record you must speak

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directly to the microphone in order to be heard by all attendees and the court reporter in the

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event of emergency please follow the directions given over the public address system or by the

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staff the main exit is through the double doors at the rear the nearest stairwells to the left

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outside the doors. In case of evacuation, the rally point is Love Park, directly across from

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Art Street. Please remain here so we can account for you. So let's look at our schedule for this

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So let's look at our scheduler for this afternoon.

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afternoon.

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Let's see here.

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Number one, MI 2025, 000452, 1804 Bainbridge Street.

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This case is continued, attorney-moving party.

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number 7

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MI 2025

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003209

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3427 North 6th Street

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that case is continued

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are there any other requests for continuance

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good afternoon chair

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this is Yvette Benton I'll be your co-host

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for this afternoon

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I see no hands at this time

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All right, so the date for number 7, 3427 North 6th Street, is 2-11-26 at 2 p.m.

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Number 3, MI 2025-000-696-8030 Frankfurt Avenue.

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We have no updated exhibits.

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This is the second listing.

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um mucoyne beauty company current owner shiana daru this is the second listing

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we also believe there's an attorney needed to proceed is there anyone in the audience

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i see no hands share okay

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okay so this is the second listing so mi2025 000 696 8030 frankfurt avenue

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No, I vote to dismiss.

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Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is to dismiss.

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Iowan, my vote is to dismiss.

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And number five, MI 2025-003-193-421 North 9th Street.

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No exhibits.

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This is the first listing.

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Adam, Exu, and three-time investment, LLC.

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see i see no hands chair so sorry we have no exhibits right come on up

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well council one of you one of my book account council why don't you state your name and spell

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for this yes uh john mccreash mccreesh right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole

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truth and nothing but the truth uh yes i counsel to this is the first listing no exhibits were

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sent in did you send in the exhibits this is adam zoo he's a property owner adam could you please

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state your name and spell for the stenographer yes adam a-d-a-m adam shoe a-d-a-m last name x-u

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i'm the property owner right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing

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but the truth yes i do so counsel we don't we don't have any of the exhibits did you put in

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the exhibits the lease and things like that excuse me this is the reporter i'm having difficulty

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hearing okay so why don't you both sit down please and talk into the microphone sure

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okay uh adam what what did you say what did you send in who did you have to speak into the mic

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please okay uh uh there's a at the same level i stop by and i send drop all the paperwork to

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to the staffs over there are you referring to the municipal services building

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It's right here.

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It came all the way up to me.

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Okay, so exhibits have to be submitted electronically,

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and they have to be submitted online.

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So I don't...

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The exhibits aren't...

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You can drop off your application when you file the appeal,

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but the exhibits are not submitted here.

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They're submitted electronically.

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Okay.

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You want to continue it then?

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Yes, okay.

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All right. So sorry about that. And, you know, if you get a chance, just call and we'll tell you how to do it. OK. All right. So M.I. 20, 25, 0, 0, 3, 1, 9, 3, 4, 21, North 9th Street. Cases continued until 2, 11, 26.

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At 2 p.m.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

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we're going to go to our add-on list number one mi 2025 002 910 4351 peach and street the vote

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in this matter has been rescheduled to wednesday october 29th at 2 p.m number two mi 2024 007

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282-10784 Lockhart Road.

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2-8-2-1-0-7-8-4

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Lockhart Road.

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I vote yes with proviso.

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Per refusal, dated 10-1-25.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Ryan Wynn, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Okay, we're going to try to stay in order a little bit here.

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Number two, MI-2025-000492-6515 Ridge Avenue.

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Richard DeMarco is the attorney.

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There's a letter of support from Roxburgh Development Corporation,

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a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Jones.

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Here, Mr. DeMarco is coming back as a panelist now.

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Also unanimous support from Ridge Park Civic Association.

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There apparently is also a CBA.

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Pardon me?

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Yeah.

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We see Mr. DeMarco's hand.

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He's coming back in as a panelist now, Chair.

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Thank you.

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Sorry, Mr. Chairman.

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I joined really slow.

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Good morning.

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Good afternoon.

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Hi.

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Good afternoon.

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Could you please state your name and spell for this sonographer?

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Yeah, sure.

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Richard DeMarco, D-E-M-A-R-C-O, last name spelled.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Could you identify your client, their relationship to the property?

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Yeah, the client is an LLC, 6515 Ridge, LLC.

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Right, and our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you, sir.

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Sure.

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Good afternoon.

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did you submit your exhibit packet to the zoning board five days in advance of this hearing

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yes and do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to his accuracy yes thank you

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you may share your screen and begin your presentation thank you

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uh mr chairman members of the board we're here uh excuse me let me bring this up there we go

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Can you see my screen okay?

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The building was built, but what happened during the process is L and I kind of shifted their reading of one of the code provisions relating to surface parking.

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And even though the garage, the proposed garage was open to the elements, it was deemed to be a closed garage.

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And we were unable to include the garage with the original project, which was approved almost four years, more than four years ago.

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But what we did was, since parking is a requirement, we're in the CMX, I have the refusal up, so you can see we're in a CMX2 district.

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Since parking was a requirement, the code actually does allow you to include parking within 1,000 feet on another lot, as long as it's 1,000 square feet and some other bells and whistles.

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So there is actually, was accessory parking including with the original, but it was off-site.

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All right. So we have now returned to the board for indoor parking. The code has undergone, and then by the way, there's an overlay here, the Ridge Park overlay, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, which has been a work in progress to say the least.

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But the garage is now permitted within the structure, but we ran afoul of the access, the curb cut, being what's considered a side street.

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But there is no rear access. I'll show you when I get to the site plan in a moment.

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There is no rear access point. It's the rear yard, basically.

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And it's against another property.

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So the only feasible access that would be allowed by the streets department would be on Gorgas Lane.

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So let me get right to that.

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And as you already announced, Mr. Chairman, we engaged in a process with the Ridge Park Civic.

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I want to commend them for working with us on this.

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We made a pretty detailed agreement.

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The agreement has already been signed.

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You know what, I'm going to use a better copy of this because it's, yeah, let me blow this up so you can see the interior parking.

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the interior parking. So basically the highlights of the CBA are we agreed to pursue

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So basically the highlights of the CBA.

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two-way parking on Gorgas Lane up to this point here, indicating with my cursor.

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So this was actually a not two-way parking, currently is not, but we're working with

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Ridge Park Civic, the other RCO, the RDC, and the councilman's office, Councilman Jones,

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who is also not opposed to this variance, and the councilman's office, through everyone's effort,

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secured a preliminary approval from the streets department for the two-way, which was something

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that was very important to the neighbors. It's really the key factor in the approval, and there's

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some other landscaping elements, which I don't need to go into full detail. I'll show you in a

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moment, but Streets has preliminarily approved this two-way parking and some additional signage,

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and there's a proposed no left turn sign that we're also working with Streets on and the

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councilman's office and our Ridge Park Civic, but I believe that is also going to be approved.

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So those are really the highlights of the CBA. This is the layout of the interior garage.

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There's obviously the handicapped spots and bike parking as well.

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There's also going to be a very large no right turn sign here so the people coming in and out of the building will not turn down Gorgas Lane where we have the residents.

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So let me go back.

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Let me just show you that this is the CBA.

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This has been signed and executed by all parties.

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And again, this really was a collaborative effort.

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I give a lot of credit to the councilman's office and to Ridge Park Civic for working with us on this.

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Obviously, the increase of on-site parking is going to be a much better scenario than people having to park elsewhere and then walk to the building.

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There's 100 units in the building.

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So obviously, we feel this is a good common sense variance.

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And again, Mr. Chairman, the only variance that we need is that side access variance, which was really meant for those row home neighborhoods that wanted to encourage rear access parking on the row homes.

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And this is a very large, as you can see here, I'll go back to a very large mixed use structure that really is not what the variance, the code provision was intended for.

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But here are the highlights of the CBA, the no right turn sign, the two-way traffic.

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And let me just show you, there are landscaping and fencing provisions that we will, of course, abide by.

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And those were obviously what led to the unanimous support, unanimous vote of the neighbors for the variants.

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Obviously, they weren't happy that the original building was approved over the counter.

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It was an over-the-counter approval, but we appreciate that we've reached, I think, a common-sense solution here in light of the situation.

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One note, I have to spend a little – let me just show you.

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Here's the councilman's letter and the other RCO, the development corporation, Roxburgh Development.

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So there's an issue with the tax clearance.

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We were unable to get tax clearance, but there's a history with that.

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And by the way, I can have Eric Marshall come on in a moment. Let me show you. So basically what happened is the OPA and the rep, not the OPA, the OPA is on the ball on this, but the revenue department has a up to or more six months delay in implementing the real estate tax abatement, including the developers abatement.

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And of course, we have a full abatement on this project for new construction, but they're behind six months.

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So what happens is the balance that's shown online does not reflect the abatement.

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And we are pushing revenue to update that because when there's currently a tax balance, which looks significant, but once the property is abated, there will be a zero balance.

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So let me show you the letter from Deborah Hill, who is terrific over at the OPA, gave us a letter stating that the abatement is in place, and this is the abatement.

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As you can see here, Mr. Chairman and the board members, it's a very significant abatement for this property.

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So $15 million worth of the property is going to be abated.

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But for this tax year, it's showing the full amount as due, and it shows the $95,000 balance.

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But we have been paying the unabated amount yearly, but because the city does not offer refunds...

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unabated amount yearly. But because the city does not offer refunds, we cannot pay the $95,000

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balance because it's going to be a credit. They're not going to have to pay taxes for 10 years. So it

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doesn't work for them. They really don't have a tax balance. Let me show you some of the letters

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so you can see that. So Deborah Hill, again, has been very helpful. She states here, you're going

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going to have a zero balance when we go back and make the adjustment because the full building

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assessment will be adjusted to zero. And those are the taxes that we're not paying on. So I know

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this is a little involved and I'll bring on Eric in a minute. But there's, you know, you can see

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here that OPA has confirmed that there is an abatement, has asked revenue to update their

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records, but the OPA records are dependent upon the revenue records, and there is a six-month-

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So, Mr. DeMarco, at this point, we're going to have to hold the vote.

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Okay.

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Okay, so why don't you continue, but we hear what you're saying, but we need to hold the

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vote.

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Okay, what do you need from us in order to release that?

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We need either tax compliance from, proof of tax compliance from the revenue department

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or printout from the tax center showing the zero balance.

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And I just wanted to note that there's actually,

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it's showing that there's taxes owed from 2024

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as well as 2025 online.

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That's the developer's debate.

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Okay.

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So there's actually a lien, it looks like, on 2024.

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So that will need to be addressed.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Well, let me bring on Eric Den.

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I mean, that's the presentation here.

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you asked for interior photos. Here they are. Let me just make sure I cover everything else.

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Okay. Well, there's full support. So, okay. Well, we'll deal with the taxes, I guess,

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as soon as possible. But I hope you understand there's a real problem with when revenue

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doesn't implement the abatements. With a large building, it results in extreme balances that

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cannot really be paid because there's no refunds. So anyway, I'll bring on Eric now,

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If Eric can raise his hand virtually.

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Chair, Eric Marshall is coming back in as a panelist now.

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Hello.

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Hi, Eric. Could you please state your name and spell for this sonographer?

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Sure. Eric Marshall, M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed, counsel.

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Mr. Marshall, did you hear my opening presentation and factual recitation that I just gave to the board?

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I did.

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Is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

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It is.

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Can you adopt it as your official testimony in this matter?

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Yes.

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Is there anything you want to add on this tax issue that I haven't covered on this, Eric?

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I mean, the only thing I'd say is that this has been, I mean, if you look at the emails that are there from Deborah Hill, and Deborah Hill was gracious enough, as Richard already explained, she sent an email today to certify exactly what she's been saying.

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So the day that we received, so we have the developer abatement, and then once we had their certificate of occupancy, obviously we pulled in for the full tax abatement to show that it's compliant.

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So we've been paying the appropriate amount, but then there was a $90,000 assessment added for the full value of the building, which we've had this every time we finish a building, we have exact same issue.

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This is actually very troublesome for us for financing as well.

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So we work with Debra and she's always responsive, but I don't know why, but it takes six to nine months on a project we most recently completed.

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I think Richard can attest to as well.

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It took us a year to have the record reflected, which actually delayed financing for the project.

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So for whatever reason, this situation exists and it always happens with the new building and it takes a long time with revenue.

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But I hope that seeing Debra's email that it asserts that the abatement is there, it is fully applied.

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The overvalue just needs to be reconciled on the back end for revenue.

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And it takes a long time for them to get there.

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The exhibits show the email history of Debra's responsiveness and then including an email as a letter that she formally submitted today to back up the email trail that we have with her.

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So it's just I appreciate that there's a process here, but we could be waiting another four months before this actually gets resolved.

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We could be waiting another four months before this actually gets resolved because of how the process, how long the process takes.

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Thank you for the information.

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And I guess the other question would be the ZBA council raised an issue for 2024.

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Did you pay 2024 taxes as well?

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Yes.

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But it was the land value, right?

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Correct.

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Okay.

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And that was, okay.

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because you have two abatements for construction and then the abatements for the completed build

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right okay questions from the board

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so i guess my i'm just trying to zero in here we're just uh approving the use of the uh

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uh parking garage entrance uh which is not on a uh rear what is it rear yard yes whatever this is

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on the side so that's that's all we're involved in right correct correct but the the the garage

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is permitted but the access point is considered a side street and we run afoul of the 14803

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1c um side access uh issue okay that's the only variance we're requesting any other questions

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thank you council question the street on street parking that's now shown on that access street

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is it what is it existing and are you removing a parking space to create the entrance to this new

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underground garage rich i'll take that one do not know the answer is this was a street so the

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parking that you see that's immediately adjacent to the building going down gorgas lane did not

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exist uh when the building was constructed as part of the streets department requirement

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the right-of-way like the the right-of-way was never constructed a sidewalk didn't exist there

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and streets department requested us to restore what was intended to be a sidewalk and parking

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lane so the the in by virtue of the development sidewalk and parking was added to gorgas lane

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as part of the construction of the building does that include that lay by lane that you're showing

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with the bump so like the bump yeah so that bar that bump represents yeah so that bump represents

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actually where the the the the where the original um building was or like structure and like

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overgrowth and earth was. So that's how narrow Gorgas Lane was prior to this building being

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constructed. So that bump out actually followed all the way up to Ridge Avenue. And then what we

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did was for the extent of where our building is, we pushed back and created the right of way

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with a parking lane and sidewalk area. So yeah, that kind of shows you how far out was, you know,

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non-developed or non-built. And when we built our building, we tucked all that in. So we created

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additional parking

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on the street

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by building the building. And a sidewalk

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that didn't exist. And I think

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you showed it on another drawing, but this has already

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been approved by streets.

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Correct. So you have two electric

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vehicles, two compact

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cars, or you have more than two. I think

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you have like five compact cars, and

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then two accessible parking

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spaces now with the 33

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in the structure.

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Okay. I have no

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further questions. Thank you.

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Just one other note, there were revised plans submitted, but all of the things on the revised plans are things that need to be reviewed by the streets department, so it's nothing that the ZBA could adopt as part of a proviso.

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It was signage, like directional signage for the street, as well as making part of the street two-way.

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um the zba cannot do that i meant to tell you mentioned that in my opening uh hillary i put

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that in in all caution but it is external to the building so i hear you i wanted to make sure you

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had it just in case because there is one item it's this no right turn sign that technically

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is an addition but it's a really just that's the only difference if you're looking at for within

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the building that's the only difference between the original plan but then the right turn signs

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in the new right-of-way right no it's inside the building it's right here i'm circling hopefully

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you can see it i'm circling it it's this i don't know if that means we have to see it inside inside

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the building so as your the garage door opens you would see that sign inside the building saying

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don't turn right okay i mean l and i governs external signage on on buildings and within

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the property lines streets is right away so if it's inside the building i'm i don't know that

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it would necessarily need any approvals yeah so

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necessarily need any approvals yeah so full disclosure i don't know the answer to that

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either but i i like i said i gave you the proviso form in case you needed it so okay obviously we

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defer to you and the board on on this yeah i don't i don't see where there's yeah something we could

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we could approve there okay all right questions from the audience you come on

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i see no hands chair thank you we have someone in the audit chair could you do me a favor pull

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that close to you and then turn it on see the green button okay how's that yeah it's great

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could you state your name and spell report a stenographer david durianzo last name spelled

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d-e-r-i-e-n-z-o you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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Yes, I did.

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Are you a neighbor?

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I am a neighbor.

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Please proceed.

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Okay, great.

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Thank you.

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I originally came up here to talk about the RCO's process as far as the community benefits

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agreement played out and also the substance of the community benefits agreement.

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But just hearing you speak right now, it sounds like there's some issues with the CBA.

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We don't really govern a CBA.

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A community benefits agreement is a private agreement between the RCO and the applicant, and it's not enforced by the city, by the zoning board, anybody.

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So I think there were things in the CBA that were incorporated into the revised plans, but those things that were in the revised plans are not something that the board could incorporate.

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They have to be done through other city agencies.

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Correct.

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And so, yeah, that came to light as you guys were talking.

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So my work here is done.

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All right. Well, thank you very much for coming in anyway. I appreciate it. Thank you.

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Planning Commission?

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Amy Wood with the Planning Commission, A-M-Y-B-O-Y-D.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed.

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This property was remapped in 2024 from CMX 2.5 commercial mixed use to CMX 2.

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The proposal for parking access off Gorgeous Lane is in existing condition,

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and the appellant has demonstrated

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that there are unique physical conditions

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or circumstances of the property

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that would prevent it from being used

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in conformance with the zoning code.

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The Planning Commission recommends

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that the board grant the requested variance

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for parking access.

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So, Hillary, this is closed

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except for the tax information.

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That is correct, Mr. Chair.

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Okay.

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Mr. Chairman, can I just ask Hillary

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to talk with me offline about this?

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Well, you're most sure you can talk to her later offline.

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Yes, absolutely.

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Thank you.

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All right, thank you all.

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And, Mr. Chair, can we just call up number six quickly?

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I believe that case is going to be continued now.

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Number six, MI-2025-003-200-2005-070.

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Sergeant Street, Alan Nockmson is the attorney.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board, Alan Nockamson.

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Not that they don't ask, but just for the record.

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Alan, A-L-A-N, last name Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed.

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Yes, Mr. Chair, we are requesting a continuance for this matter.

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Okay.

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Here's the first listing.

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Right.

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Thank you very much.

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So MI-2025-003-200-2005-070 Sargent Street, cases continue to 2-11-26 at 2 p.m.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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Thank you.

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Number four, MI-2025-003-153-2620 Frankfurt Avenue.

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You know, Catherine Mismer is the attorney.

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There's a recommendation of non-opposition from East Kensington Neighborhood Association.

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The vote was 13 in support to oppose.

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And there's a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Squill.

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Council, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Sure.

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Catherine Mismer.

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It's M as in Mary, I-S-S, I-M as in Mary, E-R.

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Right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Do you identify your client in a relationship to this property?

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Tiger Real Estate, Inc. is the property owner for 2620 through 26 Frankfort Avenue.

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And our board secretary, Shell L. Gaston, has a few questions.

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Did you submit your exhibit packet five days in advance of this hearing?

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yes five days in advance this series yes ma'am okay and uh do you waive the reading of the

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Yes, ma'am.

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Okay.

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refusal and stipulate to its accuracy i do i just want to confirm you have the revised refusal that

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was dated in october i think so yes we have perfect yes okay then um you may proceed and

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share your screen and make your presentation great thank you as mentioned i'm here today

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on behalf of Tiger Real Estate Inc, property owner for the four existing lots at 2620 through 26

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Frankfort Avenue. With me today is owner's representative Philippe Zini, as well as our

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project architect Brennan Marsh, who's available online. We're here today with an application to

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relocate the lot lines of those four lots, creating a single parcel, and the new construction of 24

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multi-family dwelling units and two ground floor commercial spaces as you can see on your screen

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you do have a letter of non-opposition from both council member mark squilla's office

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and east kensington neighbor neighbors association this is an existing vacant property sitting mid

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block on frankfurt avenue the site is owned cmx2 it's directly across frankfurt avenue from the

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Woods Brothers site that you may be familiar with. That site was recently

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approved for 453 multifamily dwelling units at a height of 72 feet. This site

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is transit-oriented along several bus routes as well as located a few blocks

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from a marked Frankfurt Line station. The RCO has expressed a desire for density

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and commercial uses along Frankfurt Avenue rather than further into the

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neighborhood. They want to promote pedestrian traffic as well as the

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transit-oriented nature of this neighborhood. Some of you may recall that

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this project came before you a few years back. This is what it looked like at that

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time. It was approved through ZBA. However, that developer was unable to

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build the project. It was a similar configuration. It had 20 units at that

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time as well as six below-grade parking spaces and a single smaller commercial space and apologies

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those parking spaces were first level they were not below grade again that project proved not to

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be feasible that developer could not build it and no permits were ever pulled since that time

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in 2019 the property has continued to sit vacant the current property owner who has a proven track

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record of multi-family development ownership and operation purchased the property and has made some

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tweaks to the project this new proposal includes 24 units with two ground floor large commercial

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spaces our original proposal also included parking at the ground floor but the rco and the neighborhood

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expressed an extreme desire for usable rentable commercial space along frankfort avenue

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and not a curb cut that would interrupt pedestrian traffic here

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as a result we've redesigned our project to remove the parking and install two large ground

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floor commercial spaces which is reflected in that revised refusal that you do have

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given the zmx2 designation in this lock configuration we do generate a few refusals

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again the number of units here does exceed what would be allowable on these four lots

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However, given its proximity to the Woods Brothers site where many units are proposed, as well as several others in the neighborhood, as you can see in the zoning map in front of you, there are various zoning designations here, and this portion of the neighborhood is really where the neighborhood wants to see density and walkability.

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walkability. The density allows the developer to provide a diverse unit mix, as well as

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address a need for diversity in the housing market here. As you can see, these lots have

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remained vacant for several years, and this would bring eyes to the street and commercial

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activity. As mentioned earlier, because we are directly across from Woods Brothers, they're

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proposing 453 multifamily units. These are a few photos of the site as it exists today.

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And this is the Woods Brothers building superimposed on the aerial. That would be directly

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across the street from our building that you're seeing in sort of the goldish color.

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There are also some other multifamilies that were approved in the neighborhood.

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There's 41 units coming to the rear of our site on Coral Street. There are 21 coming to

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lehigh avenue and 155 across lehigh avenue we do feel and the neighborhood supports this juncture

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the 24 units is appropriate for this site given the changing character of this section of the

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frankfurt of the east kensington neighborhood our proposed project also generates some

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of the east kensington neighborhood our proposed project also generates some minor dimensional

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variances the allowable occupied area here is 75 because again we are mid-block our proposal

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represents 85 however the previous approval did also include that 85 figure as the board is aware

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under hertzberg the standard for dimensional variances is significantly less than the under

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undue hardship standard. When seeking a dimensional variance, the owner is only asking

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for a reasonable adjustment of zoning regulations. Again, the prior approval at this site also

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included the same occupied area. Similarly, the proposal, I'm sorry, this is the rear of the site,

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so this is on Coral Street. You'll see it's an industrial use building, looks like a repair

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garage there as well, and these are the other multifamilies in the neighborhood.

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We also received a refusal for rear yard. If you'll note on the plan in front of you, only a small portion of our building goes to the rear property line. It's where the bike room would be on the ground floor. There is a large open rear yard. At its narrowest, it's 8'2", and at its widest, it's 19 feet 6 inches. So there is significant outdoor space for the residents. It's just not the entirety of the rear of the property.

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and again as you'll note the streets do come in at an angle so the lot line does change to the rear

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on the four lots making up this consolidated parcel lastly the proposed height of 63 feet

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does exceed the allowable 38 in the cmx2 district but again we've got 72 feet coming to the other

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side of frankfort avenue and we do feel that given the neighborhood's desire for density

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and walkability in this section of the neighborhood the proposed 63 feet is

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sufficient and speaks to the context that is changing here as a result proposed

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variances represent the least modification of the code necessary and

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we believe they're in conformity with the surrounding neighborhood this

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proposal would not be detrimental given the letter of non-opposition from both

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the RCO and the councilman's office I'll just quickly walk through some of the

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building sections and then these are the layouts there is a trash room on the

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ground floor that would be utilized by the residential units the commercial

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spaces would store their trash in the in the basement they each have designated

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space in the cellar for the trash storage nothing would be stored in the

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rear yard these are some renderings of what the building could look like and

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again this is the rear you'll see that there is a usable landscaped rear yard

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the property next to us is also vacant that's owned by the redevelopment

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authority and it has continued to be vacant for many years and then this is

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just copy of that revised refusal that was referenced with that I would just

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Let's ask Philippe to come forward.

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Bring the mic close to you, make sure it's on.

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Hi, could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer?

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Make sure to hit that button, the green button.

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There you go.

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My name is Philippe Sini.

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It's spelled P-H-I-L-I-P-P-E, and my last name is spelled C-I-N-I.

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right you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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i do please proceed counsel thank you philippe were you present and did you hear the extent of

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my testimony today yes would you agree that it's true and correct yes and would you adopt it as

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your own yes so we're available for questions and our architect is also online questions from the

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board. What's your trash pickup process for the building? It'll be commercial trash pickup. The

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residential trash will come through the lobby. It will be removed from the trash room multiple times

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a week and the commercial trash will be stored in the cellar and brought up through the commercial

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space and picked up by commercial trash pickup. And there's no parking provided? No parking proposed.

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And again, parking in this district would have required a variance.

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Right.

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But the neighborhood did request that we remove any parking.

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Okay.

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Other questions?

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I guess my question is more so about the density.

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It seems like you could have eliminated a lot of these variances and stayed within what was allowable by Wright and wanted to understand the increase in the unit number from the 10 that would have been allowed by Wright.

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I think a lot of that has to do with the failed project that preceded us.

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They were unable to get the financing to build 20 at this site.

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When Philippe purchased the property and he was able to analyze the numbers, he made it work at 24.

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He made it work at 24, but given, again, the amount that's going to be required to utilize this property, we're going to need the 24 units to make it viable.

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But given, again, the amount that's...

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Okay.

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Other questions?

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Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

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Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

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Questions from the present audience or the virtual audience?

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chair we have a john theobald they are coming back in as a panelist now okay

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mr theobald

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i'm sorry can you hear me i can't sir could you please say your name it's spelled for the

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sonographer john theobald j-o-h-n-t-h-e-o-b-a-l-d do you swear or affirm to tell the truth

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the whole truth nothing but the truth i do mr theobald are you a neighbor i'm the president

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of the East Kensington Neighbors Association, RCO, and chair of the zoning committee.

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Thank you very much. Please start your presentation.

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I just would like to reiterate in this case that the community did request that the ground floor

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commercial be added, and we're grateful that that was done, and that our community plan

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very intentionally protected our single-family intact historical blocks and sought to put high

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density along frankfort avenue which is our primary commercial corridor and the um frankfort

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avenue arcs corridor that's been supported um you know by mkcdc east kensington neighbors and the

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fishtown bid for the last um 20 years as a major commercial corridor um and that this plan complies

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with those goals um and the community supported that the density and the alterations to the ground

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floor. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Theobald, for taking the time to call us. We appreciate it.

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Is there anyone else in the virtual audience? I see no hands, Chair. Planning Commission.

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Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission. The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the

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CMX2 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location. The appellant has not shown that there are unique

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physical conditions or circumstances. They would prevent the property from being used in conformance

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the zoning code the planning commission recommends that the board deny the requested variance for

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unit count occupied area rear yard and building height okay i think i think that recommendation

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fails to take into account that a project was previously approved at the board and was unable

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to be built at the density proposed which does exceed what's allowable in cmx2 it again doesn't

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reflect the character of the neighborhood given the large 453 units coming across the street

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in order to be in context and be competitive, I think at this rate, the 24 units and the large

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rentable usable commercial space makes a big difference. Okay. So MI 2025, 003153, 2620

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Frankfurt Avenue, I vote yes. Proviso per amended refusal dated 10-7-25. Michael Johns, my vote is

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yes with proviso. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso. Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with

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proviso. I win, my vote is yes with proviso. Thank you. Thank you. Number eight, MI 2025-003-224-5416-26

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Lena Street. Meredith Ferliger

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is the attorney.

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Let's see here.

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There is a letter of opposition

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from the 12th Ward Democratic

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Committee

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and a letter of non-opposition

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from Solo Germantown.

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Counsel, could you please state your name

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and spell it for the stenographer?

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Sure. My name is Meredith Ferliger,

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f-e-r-l-e-g-e-r right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the

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truth i do could you identify your client the relationship to this property sure my client is

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in with the old llc which is the equitable owner of this property under agreement of sale uh and i

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have with me from that llc today uh mr john cunningham our board secretary show al gaston

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has a few questions. Good afternoon, counsel. Did you submit your exhibit packet five days in

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advance of this hearing? Yes, I did. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate

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to its accuracy? I do, as long as that refusal that you're referring to is the amended refusal

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that was issued August 6, 2025. Yes. Okay. So you may share your screen and begin your presentation.

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So, you may share your screen and begin your presentation.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

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As I mentioned, my client today is in with the old LLC,

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which is the equitable owner under an agreement of sale for this property the request before the

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board today concerns 54 16 through 26 lena street and as always you do have an exhibit packet in

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front of you that contains 17 total exhibits including a petition of support that has been

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signed by 20 immediate neighbors to summarize the basis for today's request this application

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requests the renovation and reuse of a historically designated building in Germantown.

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Although the zoning code recognizes a fairly broad exception to zoning use restrictions to

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encourage and support the renovation of historically designated buildings, that exception does not

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extend to buildings with an industrial designation, such as this one, which is zoned I-2.

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as a result variance relief is needed to permit the multi-family use of the building

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tax clearance is included in the packet at exhibit two and the agreement of sale is included

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in relevant sections at exhibit three by way of some preliminary background you can see on

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the zoning map here at exhibit five that this property sits on lena street right at the corner

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of East Earlham Street. This block is just north of Germantown Avenue, about 580 feet just to the

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south of this image. This is, as you can see, a highly diverse area in terms of zoning classifications

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with a portion of the block zoned I2, including this property, a small section of RM1 squeezed

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right in the middle of all of that, CMX 2.5 down towards Germantown Avenue, and the rest is fairly

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dominantly residential single-family. An OPA map is also included at the next page, just to show

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that although the application itself does include a consolidation, the city has historically treated

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this as one tax parcel with one address. So this is maintaining that existing character.

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Aerials are shown in the exhibits at Exhibit 6.

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From this first north view, you'll note that the property contains a small 25,000-square-foot building

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that has an adjoining open area that is currently packed with some vehicles.

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Across the street, you'll notice the Hamel Mill Apartments, which was last occupied as 40 units

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until falling into disrepair and being acquired in foreclosure by the Redevelopment Authority several years ago.

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From this east view, the board will see that the context of the area is aligned with the diverse zoning classifications as well,

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with few remaining lighter industrial uses, but transitioning to predominantly a residential neighborhood.

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From the south view, you'll notice the large open lot to the southwest of the property, which was last proposed for a new project with 148 dwelling units, but that request was seemingly abandoned.

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It seemingly never even made it to the board.

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The existing conditions of this lot are shown more closely here at Exhibit 17.

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The first image I have here is the front of the building from Lena Street, where you'll see that

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it has undergone some fairly significant modification over the years. An existing

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curb cut and driveway provide access to the existing parking lot. And again, this is just

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another view looking towards East Earlham Street to the left of this photograph.

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Across the street from the property, again, you can see here the former Hamill Mill apartment complex, which is currently vacant.

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Looking in the opposite direction, again, you'll see the dominantly residential character of this block becoming more clear from this image.

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From the corner, again, you can see the building more clearly that has an existing concrete

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sidewall adjoining the lot, and this CMU wall is proposed to remain, and that will continue

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remain and that will continue to as it does today shield the accessory parking

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to as it does today.

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lot the existing curb cut in front of the building will also be removed the

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one that is directly in front of the building the one in front of the

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parking of course will remain I've also included of you from the corner of Lena

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and Church Lane, as well as from East Earlham Street.

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Again, this is down that street where you can see the side of the building and the side

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of the CMU wall.

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We did, of course, include photographs of our timely posting that was posted on each

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frontage of the building.

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I have also included interior photos at Exhibit 10, although they are relatively unremarkable,

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at least in terms of today's request.

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You can see here that the side lot was historically used for truck parking and material storage,

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and the interior of the building was last used as a warehouse for the storage of materials and equipment.

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And I'll just scroll through quickly here.

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Again, you can see it's just some storage.

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One thing to take note of in some of these photographs is the existing high ceilings.

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And the upper floors are fairly unused at this point.

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They're relatively vacant with just some office and additional storage space.

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And you can see that in some of these photographs.

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As I mentioned in my introduction, and as I will show at Exhibit 13,

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this property sits within the Germantown Urban Village Historic District

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and is a contributing property to the district.

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So effectively, that gives this property the same level of historic oversight as it would if it were individually designated.

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That nomination shows that this building was built in 1914 and was occupied by a manufacturing company and was later used as a garage and a warehouse.

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In terms of the proposal, the consolidation plans are shown at Exhibit 7.

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And as I mentioned, historically, the OPA has had this as one lot, but it does exist as two deeded lots, so this will formalize that.

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The combined lot is 15,025 square feet.

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This proposal contemplates the renovation and reuse of that existing building for 23 dwelling units.

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The original application had 22, but we sought and were granted leave to amend to add one extra unit.

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And as I mentioned early on, that amended refusal is at Exhibit 1.

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At Exhibit 8, the zoning plan shows that the proposal includes vehicle parking for 16 spaces in that existing vacant lot next to the building.

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The board should recognize this parking as a fairly uncharacteristically large amount of parking spaces for a multifamily proposal.

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Although it will not be seen from the exterior because of that existing CMU wall, the parking lot does, in fact, meet all of the minimum landscape requirements.

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And you can see that indicated on this image here along the sides.

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Overall, the lot itself will remain over 50% open.

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If I zoom in a little bit on the zoning plan here, you'll notice that there's a bike storage area in the back, and trash will be kept towards the front, towards the Lena frontage, to ensure that it can have efficient trash pickup, and that would be done via a commercial hauler three times a week.

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And you can see here that there is a six by eight trash enclosure.

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I believe that since these plans were designed, John has re-evaluated, and I believe that

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that trash enclosure will actually be slightly larger.

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And in response to one of the RCO letters, John would agree to a proviso that the trash

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would be further shielded from view, although it will already be behind this wall.

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there will be an ada ramp as you can see here to the main entrance of the building which allows

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all of the first floor units to meet type b adaptability standards the 18-foot curb cut here

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will remain as and as i showed earlier the curb cut in front of the building will be removed

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terms of the floor plans there is no basement in this building

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There is no basement in this building.

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What you'll see here is that the first floor has a designated secure mail and package room in the front,

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which was another proviso that Solo Germantown had requested.

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It was actually already on the plans, so that is something that my client is perfectly happy to accept.

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Overall, in the building, as you can see from this chart here, there are four studio units,

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units 11 one-bedroom units and and uh eight two-bedroom units the square

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footages range with the studios ranging from 359 to 418 square feet one

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bedroom units ranging from 522 to 612 square feet and two-bedroom units

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ranging from 768 to 881 square feet the two-bedroom units all have two

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bathrooms, and all of the units have in-unit washers and dryers. Each unit will have soaring

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12 to 18 foot high ceilings and custom crafted finishes. Each unit, which John is happy to

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discuss further, will feature a reclaimed or antique design element, which may include things

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such as vintage lighting fixtures, industrial partitions, and handmade bathroom vanities

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that John crafts in his Fishtown woodshop.

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Elevations of the building show that the entire eastern side of this building will be opened up

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with large historically characteristic windows.

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The windows on the Lenafront will also be opened back up.

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I have also included some photographs of some other units that my client has built, just to give you a little bit of a sense of the design intent regarding the character and the uniqueness of his designs, particularly as it relates to the renovation of a historically designated building.

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So you can really see in some of these photographs how that historic character can be retained and reused.

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So, this is really just giving you a sense of what the design intent is for these units.

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By way of a few additional points, my client is reserving three of the 23 units as affordable

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based on low income AMI standards.

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My client also has a longstanding relationship with a respectable property management company

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that will be responsible for the day-to-day operations of the building.

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lighting and cameras will be added to the building and parking lot to ensure the safety of residents

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while avoiding any light intrusion into neighboring properties now regarding the refusal as you can

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see at exhibit one this application was refused because multi-family use is prohibited in the i2

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industrial district we submit that this application relies on a multitude of hardships that this board

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can find to entitle this applicant to relief. First, as I alluded to earlier, the code already

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contains a mechanism to permit the use of a historically designated building where the

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underlying zoning may not already allow for multifamily use. The section of the code I'm

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referencing is found at 146028 and allows the use of a building as if it were zoned CMX2 as long as

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meets certain size and historical use criteria. This building would have met all of those standards.

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Unfortunately, that section of code limits the exception to properties bearing a residential

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or a low-density commercial designation. So, while this building would fulfill the

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spirit of that section of the code, it is deprived of relief under that section because of the I2

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designation. Furthermore, even absent that code exception, courts have recognized that zoning

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boards are given latitude in applying a lesser standard of relief to a historically designated

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building, given that the inherent challenges and cost considerations make a historic renovation

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infinitely more difficult. Arguably, most would have looked at this property with the vast open

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lot and ventured to build a new adjoining structure to the historic building. It's a fairly

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large lot. We submit that any new construction, regardless of use, but especially if it were an

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industrial-related use, would create considerably more impact and would detract from the preservation

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of the historical character of the building and the lot itself. Residential uses of historical

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Residential uses of historical buildings is also well within the character of this particular neighborhood, as you saw from the evidence presented.

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buildings is also well within the character of

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Although it is not currently occupied, the formerly industrial Hamel Mills building across the street was converted by variance into 40 units.

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It is reasonable to predict that this Hamill Mill apartment building will one day return to dense multifamily use to complement the future residential use of the Lena property before the board today.

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Furthermore, generally speaking, the building at 5416 Lena Street is not suited to most industrial uses that would be permitted in the I-2 district without significant modification or expansion that would likely be prohibited because of the historical designation.

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The location itself is not near any highway or rail line, and the adjoining parking lot cannot accommodate large industrial trucks.

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The Planning Commission's Upper Northwest District Plan, shown at Exhibit 14, notes that only 1% of the district is used for industrial use, reflecting the overall trend of industrial uses moving to where they are better suited.

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In fact, as you can see here with the arrow, this district plan recommends that the property

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be rezoned to IRMX, which would allow for multi-family use of the building.

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The memo of law at Exhibit 11 has a more extensive discussion of the district's plan's recommendations

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and how those support the proposed use of this building.

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We also submit that the relief is the least minimum and that the proposed use is most

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similar to the character of the surrounding neighborhood, which is a characteristic the

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Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court has looked to when reviewing the least minimum standard.

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As the board has seen from the evidence today, the unit sizes are reasonable, varied, and include

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a voluntary reservation of affordable units, as well as an entire floor of type B adaptability.

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16 parking spaces are provided for 23 units which is far more than many comparable developments have

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to offer we also submit that the proposal will not increase congestion harm neighbors properties

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or impair light and air this will ensure the preservation and renovation of a historic

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structure with minimal impact to the neighborhood now just a brief note about the conflicting rco

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letters that you have in front of you. First, you will note that the vote at the meeting was

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fairly split. The 12th ward letter and their residents voted 3-3, so perfectly even split.

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The solo civic summary of their residents reflected a vote of 4 in support and 1 in opposition.

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As I did mention earlier, my client is perfectly happy to accept the proviso for a fenced trash area, as it is already behind a CMU wall.

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In light of the petition that we also submitted to this board, which has 20 signatures of near neighbors, you can see the addresses here are on Lena, Earlham Street, Lena, Colter, Church.

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So these are all immediate neighbors.

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we do submit that the project has received significant support we do recognize that there

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was a request by the rco for a follow-up meeting that second meeting request was not declined as

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it states in the letters however the overarching request that we had received was to decrease the

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density of the project to 16 units to match the number of parking spaces unfortunately that

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density would render this project completely uneconomically viable so we politely inform

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the community group that while we'd be happy to have another meeting that that meeting could only

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discuss non-density aspects of the project so we did question whether that would be a fruitful

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second meeting and finally consistent with the testimony offered earlier the 12th word letter

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does also acknowledge the likelihood of the Hamill Mill Apartments coming back online for

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multifamily use, which further supports the basis for conversion of this building into multifamily

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residential with nearly half of the density and with significantly more parking than the

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nearby Hamill Mill Apartments can ever provide. At this time, I'd like to have my client adopt

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my testimony. Sir, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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It's spelled for the stenographer.

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John Cunningham, J-O-H-N-C-U-N.

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John Cunningham, J-O-H-N-C-U-N-N-I-N-G-H-A-M.

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I'm sorry, I'm not able to hear.

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Okay, all right.

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John Cunningham, J-O-H-N-C-U-N-N-I-N-G-H-A-M.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes, I do.

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Please proceed, counsel.

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Thank you.

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John, you've been present and have heard all of the testimony and evidence that was offered in front of the board today?

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Yes.

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And do you agree that testimony was true and accurate?

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Absolutely.

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And would you adopt it as if you had given it yourself?

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Yes, I would.

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Happy to answer your question.

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Questions from the board?

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Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

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Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

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Questions or comments from the virtual audience or this audience?

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Chair, we have Christopher Covada.

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They're coming back in as a panelist now.

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Okay.

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Hello?

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Hi, Christopher.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, Chris, C-H-R-I-S, Cavada, C, O as in Victor, or sorry, O as in Octopus, V as in Victor, A, T as in Thomas, T as in Thomas, A.

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You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

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Yes, that I do.

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Are you a neighbor?

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I am.

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Actually, you can see my building and all of the examples here.

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i am the adjoining property if you go to actually if you go to well yeah okay you see the red

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outline there and i am 5424 lena street also known as 82 through 88 east church street i'm

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the adjoining building to the proposed project yeah right there the black building all right

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why don't you proceed with your testimony um well i there are multiple concerns about this project

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being that it butts up and i am you know in representation of eight other artists in uh

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the adjoining structure that have multiple concerns about construction about uh noise about

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disruption to the frontage on Lena Street here and to, you know, the businesses that are conducted

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out within the warehouse. Also, you know, this warehouse being my primary residence as well.

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So you have an artist loft there? Is that what you said you have?

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Yes. So this is parceled out to eight units, one of which is residential, which is my unit.

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right and then eight other artist uh studios correct okay sure and have you participated

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in the rcos uh no i missed the first one and the second one was denied by the client i guess

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okay all right as previously stated you're against this project i am currently against this yeah i

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mean they're testifying that they went through the neighborhood and yet no one in my building

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has had contact with the developer and or the developer's attorney all right okay um you have

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any questions um just just real quickly so you're you're living in your industrial building is that

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correct so you're using it for residential use my unit is uh there is one the zoning of it states

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that there is, yeah, one residential caretaker unit.

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I forget what the actual zoning is.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Thank you for taking the time to call us.

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Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

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There we have Oscar Beiser.

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They're coming back in as the panelists now.

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Oscar?

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Hi, Oscar Weiser.

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Hi, sir.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?

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Oscar Weiser, O-S-C-A-R.

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Last name, B as in boy, E-I-S-E-R-T.

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Right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Could you please turn on your video?

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Yes, I can.

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Sure.

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Hi, Oscar.

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Oscar, are you a neighbor?

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I am a resident.

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I'm not a near neighbor, but I live I live nearby. You live in Germantown. I do. OK, please start your testimony.

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Hi, I'm Oscar Beisert. I also represent the Keeping Society of Philadelphia.

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Hi, I'm Oscar Beisert. I also represent the Keeping Society of Philadelphia. We're a preservation.

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We're a preservation nonprofit, and we authored the Germantown Urban Village nomination.

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As you already probably know, this building is part of that district,

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and this building is also about a block from Market Square, which is the 17th century center of Germantown.

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I did want to just state, while I respect the near neighbors, you know, points of opposition and others that oppose,

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I do think this is an ideal project for this building as a preservationist.

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There's no new construction being added.

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They're adding, you know, historically appropriate windows, and they're using the open lot for

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parking, which they're going to landscape.

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I just wanted to also mention that I know that a lot of us feel very sad when we see

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industrial or manufacturing uses discontinue.

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But as the person who researched this building, I can assure you that it has not been used for manufacturing since it was turned into a garage in 1930.

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So I did just want to state my support for this project and hope the owners can, you know, find some amenable point with the near neighbors.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you very much for taking the time to call.

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Is anyone else in the audience?

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Chair, we have Charles Richardson.

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He's coming back in as a panelist now.

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Mr. Richardson

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Okay I'm back in

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I think

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I had you this morning right

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didn't we

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did I swear you in this morning

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No we actually didn't have

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I had a case but it got continued

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but it's okay

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Could you please state your name and spell for this

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Charles Richardson

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R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N

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Office of Councilwoman Cindy Bass, room 508 City Hall.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed.

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Councilwoman has some reservations with regard to the property because of the fact that we have two different RCOs.

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One is opposing and one is in non-opposition, but we also have to note that there is opposition.

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to the uh property and you know to the conversion of the property and there was

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some disappointment that they did not uh come back and um you know and speak with the community any

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further uh the councilwoman if you know it is is going to uh go with the uh coordinating rco

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in uh objecting to the project uh it is a nice project and it it does does some marvelous

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marvelous things as there's this oscar had uh alluded to but again she's sticking with the

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community at this point you have any questions okay no mr chairman i mean again i'll just i'll

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just point out the fact that the though they took a position of opposition that the votes were

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fairly clearly you know neutral all right mr richardson thank you very much is there anyone

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else in the audience here we have jim dragoni he's coming back in as a panelist now hands do

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you have he's the last one all right thank you hi sir could you please state your name and spell

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for this thermographer he should be coming in in a minute chair

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uh hello hi sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yes jim dragoni it's d-r-a-g-o-n-i like dragon with i at the end yeah sure okay do you swear

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or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do jim are you a neighbor

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yes i'm a neighbor i live about um just about a half a block away on church are you in favor

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this project or against well i have a question about the process a question about why because

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of a statement that was made earlier well why don't you tell me what your question is

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okay a statement was made earlier saying specifically saying that so many were for

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and so many were against in that meeting that we had right we had one meeting right most of the

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participants in the meeting voted to have another meeting. They weren't ready to take that vote.

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So I think it's disingenuous to refer to that particular vote and leave out all the people

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And leave out all the people that were at the meeting that said they didn't want to vote yet.

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that were at the meeting that said they didn't want to vote yet.

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They wanted to have another meeting.

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So, so, so, Jim, I think that testimony was a result of letters that were sent.

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And that one letter that was sent was three to three.

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And the other one, I did not see the count, but they were like, I believe, four to one.

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And that's what they were.

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Well, I didn't, I didn't get any, I didn't get any letters.

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Well, they sent the letters into the zoning board.

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Okay.

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well i don't know if it's okay or not well well thank you very much for calling in i appreciate

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it is there anyone else no further hands here planning commission amy boyd with the planning

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commission the comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from i2 medium

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industrial to irmx industrial residential mixed use the proposed use would be allowed under the

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proposed zoning additionally the citywide vision recommendation 8.1.2 point c calls for the

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conversion of historical buildings historical industrial buildings into new uses the proposed

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residential use is also in character with the surrounding neighborhood the planning commission

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recommends that the board grant their request variance for multifamily okay um thank you um

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i'm going to hold this so that the whole board can talk about it i mean we've had a lot of test

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money back and forth and will be the 29th am i correct hillary the 29th we'll vote on this

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two o'clock and we'll obviously go over it in the executive session in the morning

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thank you both understood thank you all right um

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number eight and number ten uh daniel might is the attorney come on

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so number we're we're going to hear these together we're going to vote on them separate

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So, come on in. So, number nine is MI 2025 003 337 6801 New State Road, number B, and number 10 is MI 2025 003 344 6801 New State Road, number C.

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um i i believe there's non-opposition from taconi civic association and counselor could you start

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off by stating your name and spell for the stenographer certainly uh can you hear me okay

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i can no problem uh my name is dan meta that's spelled m-i-t-a m as in michael right do you

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swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, sir? I do. Could

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you identify your client, the relationship to the property? Yes. Uh, our client is the applicant,

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um, uh, 6801, uh, new state, uh, pardon me, uh, Orthodox 6801 state road, BNC LLC.

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Our Board Secretary Cheryl L. Gaston has a few questions for you.

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Good afternoon, counsel. Did you submit your exhibit packet five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes, I did.

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And do you waive the reading of the referral and stipulate to its accuracy?

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We do.

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You may begin your presentation, share your screen.

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Thank you very much. Just a moment.

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And that's for both properties.

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Understood.

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You're coming up.

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We're good.

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Okay, terrific.

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All right. Thank you for the indulgence as I technically stumbled through this. For ease

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of reference, I'll just note by way of context, number one, we thank the board for preempting

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our request of consolidating the review okay uh these two parcels uh b and c are uh abutting one

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another uh they are subject to this identical i2 industrial zoning and uh we are asking for the

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same relief for each uh which is uh by way of background uh we are looking for a uh junkyard

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salvage use which is permitted in I to by way of special exception which is

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why the application was referred to this board will just note I think what's

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uh we'll just note i think what's helpful is and i'm glad to go over any of the exhibits or

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helpful is

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background uh that the board uh would like to go into but as a matter of efficiency

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i'm just going to pull up a picture uh of the subject property here because i think

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This is probably the best kind of explanatory context of the current use and the background.

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I'll just note that by way of background, the owner is an affiliate of Orthodox Auto Company, which has been in operation since 1968 by the Evangelist family.

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they now have the second generation under the roof operating this business and they've been

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at this general location since the early 80s their main business started just next door

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at 5247 unruh which you can kind of see in this general area if you follow my cursor to the left

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of the building here and this property was acquired both parcels b and c circa 2021

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and has been effectively an expansion of that use in this area for those that might be familiar

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this this general area you can see interstate 95 right up around here

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to the, I'll say, northwest direction.

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Can folks still see?

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We can.

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Okay, terrific.

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It's just north of the Tocconi-Pamala Bridge in the Tocconi area.

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And this general area, which is east of the I-95 corridor,

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where industrial development is encouraged by the Comprehensive Plan,

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has been historically an industrial area dating back to the mid-19th century

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with the old historical distant sawmills.

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So right now, the subject properties, B and C, are being used as storage,

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which is consistent with the I-2 current zoning,

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and they're looking to expand that to a junkyard salvage use,

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which would be consistent with the permitted use at the adjacent property, not a pertinent, but proximate, at 5247-57 Unruh.

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Okay.

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Okay, questions from the end.

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So the RCO was in favor when you went there?

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Yes, we met with the Ticcone Civic Association on September 3rd and got a letter of no opposition.

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Could you have your testimony adopted?

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Absolutely.

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I'd like to bring up at this time Nick Evangelist.

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Nick, could you please come forward and speak with them, Mike?

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Sure.

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My name is Nick Evangelist.

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Last name spelled E-V-A-N-G-E-L-I-S-T.

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Right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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please proceed council great um mr evangelist did you hear my entire testimony and recitation of

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facts uh yes i did and uh do you believe them to be true and accurate i do in all respects yes

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and what are you willing to adapt uh such testimony as your own yes i am questions from the board

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okay um how close is the nearest residential property it's uh on the other side of uh i-95

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it's well outside of the thousand foot distance requirement as well as outside of the 300 uh more

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circa distance requirement okay and it says here there was some mention of uh of fire at the

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location uh not at the subject property um in recent recollection i should note based on

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historical use um but i know with any any incidents that have come up have been you know

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dealt with in in the course of their business with ellen i in the city and uh worth probably

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noting the the company also has contracts with the city of philadelphia and does business with

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So what kind of, you know, what kind of materials are we talking about in terms of this junk and salvage?

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Sure, I'll do my best in the Nick and Corrector supplement, but it's generally taking autos of cars and disassembling them and recycling the parts and extracting from them either just whole parts that could be wholesale back or sold through brokerage kind of medians,

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or it could also be salvaging the precious metals or other usable metal.

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or it could also be salvaging the precious metals or other usable metals on premises

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that can then be, you know, likewise sold on wholesale or to other buyers.

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Nick, anything?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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We process end-of-life vehicles.

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That's what we do.

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Okay.

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Okay, so this is akin to a chop shop, but legal, correct?

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Correct.

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correct we we like to use the term uh recycling and salvage uh but

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i i can say that we certainly appreciate the candor if not the connotation

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but it's it it's not where autos go to live on uh if you will all right and then uh and and

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And is there, so you make, you retrieve all these parts and what have you.

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You're not, there are no sales or anything on the property, correct?

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I don't believe, Nick, do we do any sales?

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Not on this property, no.

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All the sales take place on Rue Avenue.

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Okay.

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So then you transport these parts and materials to another location for actual resale.

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That's correct.

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And, you know, majority of the resale is done through deliveries, so not too much traffic is coming to the location to pick up the used parts.

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Okay.

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And are we dealing with any kind of hazardous waste materials as part of this precedent?

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I guess that depends on the definition.

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So we are recycling end-of-life vehicles.

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they'll still have the fluids in them and it's our responsibility to to properly properly recycle

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them so that's coolant oil gasoline things of that nature okay and then those materials are

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properly disposed of we got a paper trail we make sure that they are yeah absolutely an analogy we

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I mean, household cleanings could be classified in a hotel or restaurant as hazardous.

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And really the important qualifiers that they're being handled with in accordance with all environmental laws, applicable environmental laws at the local, state, and federal level.

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So, yes, they are in the ordinary course.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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So just one thing.

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I mean, I think when our board secretary mentioned a fire.

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I mean, there's a conversation in the letter about a hybrid battery caused a fire.

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Is that a problem for you, I mean, with hybrid batteries?

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Well, it never was before the fire, to be honest with you.

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And after gathering all the information, it really was a situation that you wouldn't believe unless you saw it, because nothing really caused the fire.

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And just a point of clarification, based on earlier testimony, so the subject fire reference in the letter was actually at a property leased by our client, but not owned by the prior, and not on the subject premises.

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I mean, we talked about what's the problem.

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So, I mean, that's something you have to watch out now for hybrid batteries or batteries in general?

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Yeah, absolutely. We need to rethink how we are. We're handling them. That's really what needs to happen. And there needs to be more care taken to it and more isolation.

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Okay. Other questions from the board?

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Are there periodic state or federal inspections of your facility?

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Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're at the mercy of pretty much any department that wants to come in, whether that is, you know, L&I or the state police or the DEP, and we're compliant with all of them.

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okay but is there a regular is there a regular that that's my question like an annual review or

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annual you know certificate something that happens that's just i mean well we have the

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auto wrecking license through the city of philadelphia and then we have our dealer licenses

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through the department of state um and how many times have you been inspected in the last year

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if you can think um overall from all the different out at least a half dozen to a dozen times

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um hillary emerson our attorney

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um no questions mr chair but just to note that the one matter did have like a corrected

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or amended refusal so we'll need to conclude that as a proviso in the board's decision

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Conclude that as a proviso in the board's decision

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The

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Number number B

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Initially there was a refusal issued in March that included a refusal for not having the required parking spaces

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And then a new refusal was subsequently issued that took that refusal off. Okay, are we so?

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Yeah, I'm not sure yeah, but

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We'll mention this when we bring it up.

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That sounds good.

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The only thing else I'll mention as well is just as a point of clarification,

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and this was included in the exhibits,

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the client received a tax clearance result,

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which noted the tax clearance, I guess it reads,

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uh tax clearance check uh for zoning board passed you can view the certification now or review it

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later in your letters but there was no kind of area to click to review it now so we expect that's

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forthcoming uh hopefully the next day or two um which will promptly okay we're okay with that okay

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okay we can see we've had other people that have had issues with this where it'll say

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you know you passed but the certificate's not generating so we we looked on the philadelphia

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tax center and we could see that what you are indeed in compliance so we can go ahead and vote

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today okay terrific thank you um questions or comments from the audience the virtual audience

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i see no hands share planning commission amy boyd with the planning commission

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this testimony will be for zp 2025-001473 and zp 2025-001467 the comprehensive plan recommends

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no change in zoning from the current i2 medium industrial the parcel is close to the delaware

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riverfront and is in the special flood hazard area so the proposed use could cause such

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impacts beyond what would reasonably be expected by potentially damaging environmentally.

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The Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the requested special exception

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for salvage and junkyard.

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If I may.

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Sure.

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We would just highlight that while we appreciate the planning's perspective and consideration

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of the proximity to the Delaware River,

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I would just underwrite the point

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that this property has been designated as I-2

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and has been used as an industrial area along the river

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again since the mid-19th century

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and the property just appurtenant

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also owned by the affiliate of the owner

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of the property, Orthodox Auto, is and has been in use since the 80s on the Delaware River for

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the exact use that we're asking for. So we would just reference the historical actual use.

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This is a natural extension of that, of a growing local business in a very similar location.

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Thank you. So number nine, MI-2025-003-337-6109, New State Road, number B, I vote yes with proviso, per refusal dated 4-10-25.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Iowa N, my vote is yes with proviso.

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And number 10, MI-2025-003-344-6801, New State Road, number C, I vote yes.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes.

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I win, my vote is yes.

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Thank you both.

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Thank you very much.

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Number 11, MI-2025-003-385-4340 Bybury Road.

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Brett Feldman is the attorney.

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Mr. Feldman, could you please state your name and spell for the stenography?

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Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

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Brett Feldman, B-R-E-T-T, Feldman, F-E-L-D-M-A-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?

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Yes.

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I represent Safe Store Byberry LLC, the owner, as well as Extra Space Management, the manager.

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And with me today is Jeremy Deppler, who is the facility space manager for Extra Space Storage.

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Our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you.

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Good afternoon, counsel. Did you submit your exhibit packet to the board by days in advance of this hearing?

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Did you submit your exhibit packet to the board?

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Yes, we did. And then we submitted an amended package that had our letter of support from the RCO this week as well.

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Thank you. And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes, there's amended refusal on this, dated 9-23-25.

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I want to make sure that's in front of the board.

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Yes.

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And so now you can share your screen and begin your presentation.

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Thank you.

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Great.

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Great. So let me get right to it here. This is an existing self-storage facility that is right near Franklin Mills Mall, right between Woodhaven and Bybury, as you approach Franklin Mills from 95.

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The board approved this variance for this in 2021 and then approved variances for the signed package, I believe, in 2023.

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The only reason we're here is the prior tenant here, Life Storage, has now been acquired by Extra Space Storage.

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So this is a nationwide rebranding of the store, of the facility from live storage to extra space.

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And as you'll see, we're actually reducing the size of the signage that's in front of you today.

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So that's what this whole case is about.

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Let me just get right to the slides here.

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That's the letter of unanimous support from the RCO, Millbrook Civic Association, and

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then there's their written explanation.

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This was the original refusal, then an amended refusal, which is right here at the exhibit

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tab 4 moving to exhibit tab 5 here is the we're zoned rsa rsa 1 the reason why we're here is

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because rsa 1 is a residential district we had to so you have almost no signage in this residential

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district and that's why the board i assume previously issued the requested variances

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so here is you know here's really kind of on the right is the existing signage for life storage

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we've got a temporary banner there for extra space storage this is the portion of the facility that

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is facing on Bybury and that's some internal photos of the parking lot here's some photos of

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the inside of the facility that has been well received by the community more pictures of the

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inside the office and then here's the view from Woodhaven as you approach Franklin Mills Mall

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that's the wall sign that is there right now and just for for comparison purposes both of

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those signs that I showed you right now are 183 square feet we're reducing it down to 139 square

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feet and I know it was asked you know do you object to the refusal I think there's a real

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case that we probably shouldn't have been here because when you take a sign and you make it

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smaller, I didn't handle the application. But that's kind of, you know, that's a topic for

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another day. By the time we got involved, you know, we wanted to...

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You should call Hillary about that.

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Yeah. But I'm not even, you know, we're here.

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You always the new sign?

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Yeah. Yeah. I'll get right to it here. Let's just get to Exhibit Tab 8.

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So here is the facility nestled between Woodhaven and Bybury, Woodhaven to the left, Bybury to the right.

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We are refacing this freestanding sign from LifeStore, it's just extra space, exactly the same, just topping the panel.

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That is the left existing, right is the proposed, again, going from 183 to 139.

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And then here we're changing that little office, a piece that says office.

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No change there.

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And then here's the sign that's on Woodhaven, again, going from the 183 to 139.

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that's really that's kind of the story here um i don't know if you have any other any other

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That's really, that's kind of the story here.

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I don't know if you have any.

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questions uh the vote was unanimous um as i o'neil was in favor rco's in favor yes yes and

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questions from the board oh i'm sorry get your testimonies out sure sure

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uh mr deppler can you um can you provide your your your name and and spell it for the zoning

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Jeremy Deppeler, J-E-R-E-M-Y-D-E-P-P-E-L-E-R.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and that's about the truth?

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Yes.

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Please proceed, counsel.

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Can you provide your current title?

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I'm the facility service manager for the Northeast here for extra space storage.

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And with regards to the signage and the switchover from one company to the other,

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can you provide what your role has been in that?

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Sure. We acquired – well, I say acquired. It was actually a merger of Life Storage to Extra Space. There's been a rebranding of all Life Storages to Extra Space Storage. Within the Northeast, I believe this is the final rebranding in the Philadelphia market for Extra Space.

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Thank you. Great. And you heard my testimony?

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I have.

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And was it true and accurate?

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Yes.

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And do you adopt it as your own?

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I do.

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Questions from the board?

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Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

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Questions or comments?

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Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

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Questions or comments for the virtual audience?

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I see no hands, Chair.

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Planning Commission.

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Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

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The comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from RSA 1 residential to RM 2.

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The proposal to replace the sign is in accordance with previous zoning relief.

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The Planning Commission recommends that the Board grant their requested variances for sign height and area.

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Thank you. MI 2025-003-385-4340 Bybury Road.

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I vote yes, proviso, per amended refusal, dated 9-23-25.

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John, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Iowen, my vote is yes, with proviso.

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Thank you. Thank you for coming in.

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Thank you for your time.

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Thank you for your time and consideration.

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So number 12, MI 2025-003-645-160-64 North 2nd Street.

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Rachel Pritzker is the attorney.

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There is a letter of support from Old City District RCO

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and a letter of non-opposition from Council Member Squilla,

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and the applicant has also provided 43 form letters of support from the neighbors.

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Good afternoon.

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, it's Rachel, R-A-C-H-A-E-L, Pritzker, P-R-I-T-Z-K-E-R.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Could you identify your client, the relationship to the property?

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Yes.

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So my client is Neil Campbell of Global Taste, Inc., who owns Ray Street Cafe, but this

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property is located.

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Okay. And our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions.

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Sure.

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Good afternoon, counsel. Did you submit your exhibit packet five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes.

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes. It's a refusal and a referral, just to be clear.

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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But yes.

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Do you waive both?

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Yes.

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Fine. Then you can share your screen and begin your presentation. Thank you.

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Thank you. And if we could identify, just for efficiency, Ryan Salomeo from Harman

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Deutsch Architecture, just so when ready he can go through the plans.

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Okay. We'll have him ready.

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Okay. Can you see my screen?

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We can.

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Okay.

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so as mentioned um this is 160 to 64 uh north 2nd street um this is a uh refusal oh my apologies

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this is a refusal the other project that i did the same time i had a refusal and a referral so

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my apologies this is a refusal yeah i was looking at i did two of these other referral yes my

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apologies i did a two of these at the same community meeting last week back to back so

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i think i just have that confused but um this proposal is for a new one-story edition it's

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a pergola with a roof detached to an existing six-story structure for use as a sit-down restaurant

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um detached to an existing six-story structure for use as a sit-down restaurant in the same lot

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with other uses as approved this is the race street cafe um on second and race and we're doing

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basically an expansion of just the rear of the property to do a pergola for additional outdoor

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seating race street cafe is an existing long-standing sit-down restaurant in this

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neighborhood so um some of the terminology here sounds like we're doing more than we are

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but we're just doing a pergola, which we'll show on the plans. That's why we have this

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max occupied area refusal, which is 5%, which is due to the pergola. And then we do have a

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refusal for the sit-down restaurant, although we already have a sit-down restaurant in the space.

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But given, I believe, the overlay, it triggers a refusal.

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This was our application.

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As mentioned in the appeal, sit-down restaurant isn't permitted, and it's only allowed to

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use 80% of the lot.

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We're proposing 85 and some change, again, expanding an existing longstanding sit-down

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restaurant and adding a pergola in the rear of the property as well.

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tax clearance um it's worth noting that we have an easement with the adjacent um owner as well

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um just for access and use so we also were um informed to just get um the those different

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unit numbers um their tax clearance so that's why you're seeing um so many um on the um screen

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This is the deed.

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Oh my goodness, more paper.

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Go through all this.

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Okay.

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Here is the zoning map.

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It's a CMX3 property on the corner.

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again of 2nd and Ray Street and it's high density CMX3 so without the overlay we would be permitted

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to do the sit-down restaurant. It obviously already is a sit-down restaurant and the pergola

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is again causing the additional lot coverage. Aerial photos of the property.

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Same thing.

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This is just from the corner.

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Same thing.

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Zoning posters.

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This is the exterior of the back of the property where we're going to be having the additional space.

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It's not a lot of space, but it does help this restaurant have additional revenue,

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have additional guests, and makes use of sort of a non-used exterior space.

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This is the inside of the restaurant, if you've not been there before.

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So it's not a very large restaurant currently, so this will allow for some additional seating

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and more patrons and customers to be served.

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This is a view from the front of it towards the back.

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again this is the rear space

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same thing here this is just where in the code we don't comply as already mentioned

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um we did have a community meeting with the old city district

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project. And we have a vote of support from them. We sent out all the required mailers.

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And as mentioned, they had a vote of support from all of the attending RCO committee members

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and then four people, I guess, abstained. This is our letter of support or non-opposition

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from councilman mark squilla and then as mentioned letters of support from the surrounding your

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neighbors and the community um with that i'm uh if we could bring up ryan salomeo just to go

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through the plans that would be great rachel could you do we do you have a photo or a drawing

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of the pergola yeah ryan has all that on the plan okay okay yeah absolutely okay all right brian

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brian salomeo r-y-a-n-s-o-l

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ryan solimeo r-y-a-n s-o-l-i-m-e-o um swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and

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nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel let me just share my screen

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okay um some of these images you've seen before um in the middle here this is actually the front

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of the ray street cafe as as rachel said it's a pretty small restaurant some of the same interior

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photos um basically where this um where their draft list board is now our menu board we are

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going to be adding a opening that rear wall up and that's how you will access the new rear seating

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um these are similar photos that rachel just showed showing what it is used for currently

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um so here is kind of a sorry

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sorry um and this shows that back space in relationship to the race street cafe and then

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the egress along the side of the building and then here is a plan this is the existing inside

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of the restaurant we were previously looking back along this way this is where that chalkboard is

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on the wall so there'll be a double set of doors there that'll walk out and utilize that patio

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space that will be at the same level as the existing restaurant and then here's a kind of

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sample of the table layout for that space and then here's kind of a section through

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we'll be building up a small platform to make that even with the current race street height

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and then it will be sort of a metal kind of open air pergola then and then we'll have a wood fence

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along the back and the the one side so it'd be a composite deck um with a metal awning over it

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that will just provide some shade and some cover um and then our zoning drawings

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and i think that's pretty much it

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Rachel, you want to have someone adopt your testimony?

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Yeah, it is looking for Neil.

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He's on the call.

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Neil Campbell.

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Neil Campbell, if you're in the virtual audience, please raise your hand.

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He's coming back in as a panelist now, Chair.

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Thank you.

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hello can you hear me i can could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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neil campbell n-e-i-l-c-a-m-p-b-e-l-l do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and

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nothing but the truth yes i do please proceed counsel neil have you heard my testimony today

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do you believe it to be true and accurate and do you adopt it as your own yes i do thank you

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questions from the board yeah just a quick question how does the shipping container

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yeah i was wondering that's next door yeah the shipping container is on the adjacent lot that

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fronts on second street there i believe there is another project that's being proposed there

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um so that that will move but that just happens to be sitting on the edge of the property line

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currently okay well i thought that was a new design or something there that was

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When you said corrugated roof, I thought you were trying to sort of fit into the, you know.

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Okay.

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So how many seats are in the restaurant now?

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And how many more will we be adding with this pergola and extra?

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It looks like deck space, but I don't know.

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Ryan, is that you or me?

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Do you know how many you have existing in the space now?

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I think we have about 60 interior seats.

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Okay, and we're adding approximately 30 with the current layout that we just showed.

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Yeah, that's a suggested layout.

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I think that there will probably be more green space out there, so it might not be quite that much seating.

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Okay, and then the stairs that I saw, so you're going to, the patrons go through the restaurant to get to this exterior space?

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yeah most of the yes most of them would come in and out through the through the restaurant space

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the stairs that you saw are a second means of egress that is through the shared alley so the

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back does have two means of egress but it would mostly people would be coming through the restaurant

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space okay and then presumably there's already some venting going on at the restaurant and how

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will this additional seating affect that or um since it's a one story

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additional seating affect that or um since it's a one story the the venting goes directly up so

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we won't have any um adverse effect we won't be won't be adding any additional um venting

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or anything needed for this i guess i was just wondering how it might affect the amount of

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seating and the comfort of those who are going to be using that seating in terms of um where

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or how high up the venting goes.

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I think that's more my question.

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If you're speaking to current kitchen exhaust venting,

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that stuff is on the roof right now and won't be changing.

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It's a very high roof in that building,

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so it's considerably above that new proposed dining area.

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And the new dining area does not have a permanent roof or sides to it,

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so there will be plenty of airflow in that space.

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Okay.

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Okay, and am I missing, okay, can I see this pergola again, or did I not see it before?

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Yeah, show it one more time.

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Can we see it again?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Ah, all right, okay, okay, yeah, I missed that part of things.

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Oh, okay, all right, thank you.

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Any other questions from the board?

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Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

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Not a question, but just a comment, because those last renderings I don't remember seeing in the exhibit packet,

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so if you could just have those included.

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I don't know if that was a separate presentation by the architect, but I'll just have those included with the record.

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Please submit them by close of business tomorrow.

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Thank you.

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Sure.

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questions or comments from the virtual audience

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i see no hands chair any commission amy boyd with the planning commission the comprehensive

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plan recommends no change in zoning from the current cmx3 commercial mixed use the proposal

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for a sit-down restaurant is in harmony with the surrounding neighborhood which includes other

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eating and drinking establishments on the block the requested relief for occupied area is de

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The Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the requested variances for a sit-down restaurant in an occupied area.

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Thank you. MI 2025-003-645-160-64 North 2nd Street, I vote yes.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes.

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Ireland, my vote is yes.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Is there anyone in the audience who their 2 p.m. case has not been called?

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I see no hands, Chair.

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We're going to take a five-minute break before we start the 3.30 list.

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Good afternoon, everyone.

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My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this meeting of the Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment.

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With me is our Board Secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Board Member Michael Johns.

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President, Mr. Chairman.

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Board member Ty O'Wynn.

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President, Mr. Chairman.

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Board member Ryan McAdams.

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President, Mr. Chairman.

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Also here is Hillary Emerson, our attorney, our zoning board director, Ian Haggerty, and our board administrator, Lakeisha Dandy.

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Recording of this hearing will be posted on the ZBA website.

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By participating, you consent to be recorded.

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This is an in-person meeting with remote capabilities.

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Whether remote or in person, if you're called to speak,

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you must state and spell your name and then wait to be sworn in.

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Once you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before beginning your testimony.

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Any person may enter their appearance to become an interested party to a case.

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There are three ways.

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You can identify the case property address on your Zoom webinar.

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You can see a staff member, or you can call the ZBA appearance line by the close of business tomorrow.

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call 267-270-5548, leave a message that includes your email address and the address of the property

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of the appeal. The following guidance is for remote attendees. When directed, you must raise

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your virtual hand in order to be recognized to speak. If you're called to testify, you'll be

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prompted to join as a panelist. Please accept the request and turn on your camera. Third,

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Third, the webinar Q&A is for questions about the hearing.

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Do not comment on cases in the Q&A.

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Fourth, if you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.

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For our in-person attendees, please refrain from talking, eating, or drinking during the hearings.

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Verbal and physical aggression will not be tolerated.

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Verbal and physical aggression will not be tolerated.

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Restrooms are across from the elevators.

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Restrooms are across from the elevators.

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A water fountain is just outside the room to the right.

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When speaking on the record, you speak directly within the microphone in order to be heard.

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In event of emergency, please follow the directions given over the public address system or by the staff.

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The main exit is through the double doors at the rear.

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The nearest stairwell is on the left outside the doors.

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In case of an evacuation, the Rally Point is a love part directly across Art Street.

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Please remain there so that we can account for you.

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Let's look at our schedule for this afternoon.

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Number two, MI 2024-007-462-62...

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Number two, MI 2024-007-642-6215 North 13th Street.

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That case is continued to 415-26 at 3.30.

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Number three, MI 2024-007-465-6217 North 13th Street.

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That case is continued to 4-15-26 at 3.30 p.m.

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And Mr. Chair, number six and number seven can be continued.

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The applicant was here, but they were advised that they will need counsel to proceed.

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So they did leave.

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And we will follow up via email.

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Let me do number eight first where I was.

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Sure, I'm sorry.

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MI 2025, 001-886-627-North-64th Street.

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That case is continued until Wednesday, October 29th at 2 p.m.

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Number six, MI 2025, 4918 Walnut Street, and MI number seven, MI 2025, 003-995-5211 Beaumont Street.

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Both cases will be continued until 4-15-26 at 3-30.

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Let's go to our first case.

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Chair.

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Yes.

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We have two people with their hand up.

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Sure.

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The first person is Yvette Young.

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She's been unmuted and allowed to speak.

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Okay.

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Hi.

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I was. Miss Young, could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer?

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Yes. Yvette Young, Y-V-E-T-T-E-Y-O-U-N-G. I just wanted to. Hold on one minute. Do you swear

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or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. What case do you want

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to talk about? I was checking on 6215-17 North 13th Street. Did you say that was continued?

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Yes, that matter has been continued at the request of the attorney for the applicant.

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Okay, I see.

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All right, thank you.

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Oh, thank you.

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Thank you for calling in.

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We appreciate it.

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All right, take care.

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So, we're going to go to number one, MI 2024-006.

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Hey, Val.

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Okay.

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MI 2024-006-715-8200-208, Caster Avenue.

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Henry Clinton is the attorney.

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This is a resumptive hearing.

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Henry Clinton will be rejoining as a panelist chair.

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Okay.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

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Henry, just for the record,

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could you please state your name

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and spell for the sonographer?

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Sure.

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Henry Clinton, H-E-N-R-Y,

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clinton c-l-i-n-t-o-n right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and

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nothing but the truth i do so mr clinton this is a resumptive hearing and my notes show that

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their update for this hearing would be there's an amended refusal received two parking spaces

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added no additional refusals two letters of support from neighbors attached landscape and

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tree requirement waiver request attached and received updated posting and tax compliance revised plan.

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and received updated posting and tax compliance, revised plans incorporated into the amended

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refusal. Mr. Clinton, what we would like is for you to give us an update, then we'll do questions

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on the board, and then we'll move to the Planning Commission. Okay? Okay. Thank you. Thank you,

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Mr. Ryan. You kind of covered everything. Time has not been a friend. Probably not.

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Time has not been a friend to the church in this matter. It was before a prior board in 2019,

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got approvals for parking, 19 spaces, and everything else, the one-story addition to

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the church. We had COVID. I returned to the board in February of this year, and at that point

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was advised to seek an amended refusal, which I did. So this is a one-story addition to a church

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that has been in existence, a former bank since about 2013, and the issue is parking.

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The community group wanted two more parking spaces.

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We started off with 18.

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We now have 20.

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The code requires 22.

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But because of the landscaping requirements, we were losing spaces.

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So we basically kind of cut the difference.

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We're coming forward with 20 spaces in our revised plans.

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and were seeking a waiver from the planning requirements

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by agreeing to post $7,000 in lieu of planting some trees.

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And that letter was sent to the Planning Commission.

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So Z2 and Z3 are the revised plans that are in the packet

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and in our proviso form.

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And I'm willing to walk through the plans.

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I have the presentation here.

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It's up to the chairman and members of the board.

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members of the board want to see anything more

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and just to just to clarify mr clinton these are the the same plans that you showed at the

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last hearing and that were reviewed by ellen i for the amended refusal correct and i sent them to uh

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mr heger all right yeah okay um uh questions from the board

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questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr chair

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planning commission oh i'm sorry uh our uh virtual audience i see no hands chair planning commission

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amy board with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change

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from the current residential single-family rsa3 zoning the proposal for 20 parking spaces is a

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de minimis difference from the required 22 the proposed rear yard depth will not injure the use

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of adjoining properties the planning commission recommends that the board grant the requested

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variances for parking in the rear and side yard number of spaces and rear yard depth

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so mi 2024 006 715 8200 208 castor avenue i vote yes with proviso per amended refusal

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dated 7-14-25.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes

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with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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And that will be with the revised plan, Z2 and Z3?

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I think

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they were in the right, didn't I see

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where that was in the amended refusal?

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Yeah, Mr. Clinton, if they were reviewed

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as part of the amended refusal,

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the amended refusal encompasses them.

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Right.

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And I believe, did Board Member

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win vote no it's starting to i got cut off i win my vote yes with proviso okay all right then we

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have four thank you so i miss one all right so number four mi 2024 007 674 4927 north

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5th street tamika mccoy is the attorney um

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unanimous support from

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the new 42nd Ward RCO.

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Tamika McCoy is coming back in as a

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panelist now, Chair.

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Good afternoon.

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Counsel, could you please state your name and spell it

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for the stenographer? Sure. Tamika

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McCoy, T-A-M-I-K-A.

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Last name is M-C-K-O-Y.

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You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Could you identify your client, a relationship to the property?

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Sure.

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I represent Joanne Elise, who is a tenant of Ernst Gessner Daphnis at the location of 4927 North 5th Street, Philadelphia, PA.

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And our board secretary, Cheryl L. Gaston, has a few questions for you.

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Cheryl L. Gaston has a few questions for you.

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Good afternoon, counsel.

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Did you submit your exhibit package five days in advance of this hearing?

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Yes.

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And do you waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?

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Yes, I do.

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Thank you.

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Then you can begin to share your screen and make your presentation to the board.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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This is an application to change the use at 4927 North 5th Street from a event space to a child care facility.

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Um, the location essentially is in a commercial corridor on fifth street where there are, um,

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majority adjoining commercial spaces. It's next door to a pharmacy. There is another daycare

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facility approximately six doors down from this actual location. The proposed use essentially is

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to service older toddlers and preschoolers. So the age range is from two and a half years to five

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years old. These are photographs of the interior. The photograph on the left shows a doorway to an

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outdoor space. The outdoor space is a enclosed backyard space that the tenants intend to paint

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grass and flowers and trees onto the fence to make this an outdoor area for the toddlers and also the

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preschoolers. Here there's a photograph that depicts the front of the building with the

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the proper notices are fixed. And the space that is currently approved as an entertainment space

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didn't survive as that type of use in this particular location. And so the property owner

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entered into a lease agreement with Ms. Elise and Ms. St. Fort for them to have the ability to

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operate a child care center, which is what they do, it is their intention to have approximately

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16 kids in this particular area. It's my understanding the total square footage is

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about 672 square feet. And there's an allotment for 40 square feet per child. And so that would

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essentially permit about 16 preschoolers or older toddlers in this particular area.

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The way that this is constructed is there is a front entranceway that initially has a foyer and

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a door that goes to the existing office space. It would be this location where parents would

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receive or drop off their children. There's another door that separates that from where

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the actual toddlers would actually be. There's going to be two classroom designations, one in

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front of the building, the second toward the rear of the building, and then there's a central prep

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area with access to a bathroom that has the capability for handicap accessible access and

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also water fountains that would be affixed. The interior is already done. There would be no

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construction that's required. It is my understanding that the tenants are going to be using bookshelves

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and movable furniture to serve as dividers for the interior space. This shows that initial

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entranceway as it looks onto Fifth Street. There's a large glass partition in the front. Here,

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it has shutters, but it does allow a lot of natural light through the building when those

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shutters are open. The change of use would not affect any of the other spaces within the building.

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this is only for the first floor only. It's currently zoned RM1. There's an apartment on the

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other floor that had been previously approved. This would just be essentially a request

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to utilize this first floor area as a child care facility for older toddlers.

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as a child care facility for older toddlers and preschoolers.

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It is consistent with what's, you know, the commercial uses in the neighborhood.

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So it wouldn't necessarily have a negative impact.

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And there is community support for this particular type of business.

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And it's anticipated that it's going to be well received.

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the tenants already have applications from at least six I believe families that want their

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kids to be serviced by them and there are two employees currently they would essentially

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expand as they need to it's my understanding the ratio essentially is one child care worker per

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every six kids for the older toddler and for the preschooler it's one to ten as in terms of the

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ratio you know with that i would ask that miss elise be admitted into the building and i would

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entertain any questions that the board would have at this time why don't we bring her one

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and you can adopt she can adopt your testimony or you can adopt yeah yes she's going to adopt

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Joanne Elise is coming back in as a panelist now, Chair.

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Thank you.

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Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?

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My name is Joanne Elise, J-O-A-N-N-E.

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My last name is E-L-I-S-E.

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right right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

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yes i do okay please proceed counsel thank you miss at least did you hear the testimony that

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was provided to the board this morning yes i do and um is it accurate yes okay i would submit on

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that questions from the board so will will children be in the basement no the basement is

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not um going to be part of what they use for the daycare space okay thank you are you only using

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freestanding partitions or furniture to do any more division in the interior spaces

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yes my understanding is it's only going to be freestanding furnishings to use as dividers

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they're not going to be any walls constructed and then for the toilet fixtures for the for the

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children are you adding fixtures to the handicapped bathroom or is there going to be an

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additional bathroom that has the heights for youth I believe they're going to use a stair step

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to allow for the children to be able to access the toilet as it is, but it's going to be

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handicap accessible in terms of width and space from the floor.

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Okay. Other questions? Yes. The outdoor space you're going to use for a play area? Yes.

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Is that concrete out there? How are you going to make that a, I think, safe play area for the children?

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So they have carpet tiles and padding that could be used on top of the concrete so that it's not such a hard surface for them to play on.

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And it's my understanding they're going to use paint essentially to make it more child friendly on the outside.

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All of these items are items that currently belong to the property owner.

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It would be cleared and removed so that they could actually put in toys and things for the toddlers.

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And the door leading to the outside, are there steps there?

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Or how do the children get from this space, from the interior space to this exterior play area?

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Yeah. Okay. I can kind of bring up the plan and then we can kind of take a look at that.

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So there are stairs in the back that basically is accessible once you open the door. The

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teachers and the staff members would essentially assist the children with being able to

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um get in and out and i believe they also are going to have a 88 accessible ramp there is going

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to be a um five foot rise so there's one step and then you can get to the ramp

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okay i actually have three other questions now so there's the 88

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actually have three other questions now so there's the ada accessible ramp at the rear

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but not one at the front so i guess my question is considering you're keeping the ada bathroom

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what's the plan to have accessibility happen at the front of the property so there's a side area

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where um you can access the rear of the property through the side way so if someone needs to be

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able to use the ramp they could actually just kind of wheel back to the rear of the building

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and so that's the plan okay and then right now it looks like the current owner has the trash

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receptacles in the rear area that you all are designating for play space where are you relocating

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the trash well they would have a shed outside that would kind of separate that from where the

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play area would be so it would kind of be separated and then my last question is about

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meals so this commercial space has no kitchenette and I guess my question is how are you planning

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to manage any refrigeration you might need on site for you know refreshments meals

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um it's so from what I understand they have a prep area here they would have um I guess outlets

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that they could plug refrigeration in so that they can have stuff cool but they're not going to have

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um stove or any meals that are prepared parents are going to be responsible for essentially

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you know bringing lunch items in a lunch box for the kids and that's what they would basically

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um stow and this prep area would allow for them to organize organize themselves in that way

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is there going to be any heating other abilities to heat things on site hot plate

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toaster oven air fryer microwave i um did not get into that because when i did ask the question

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about the lunch it's pre-packed lunch for the kids so i doubt that um there would be anything

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like a hot plate or anything like that i'm not certain about a microwave but that's you know

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an appliance that's kind of easily acquired so okay i imagine they may have something like that

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to accommodate if necessary, but their intentions were not to have, um, for the staff to prepare

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meals, but that they'll serve the, you know, the meal, the lunch that the parents provide for the

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kids. And I guess I have just one last question, I think, um, with respect to the ages of the

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children I think that there's an age cutoff where you have to provide or an age range where you have

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to provide extra fire protection and or means of ingress and egress because the children are not

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capable of self-preservation and I didn't know whether it started at two and a half or it was

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up to two and a half or past that age.

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So are there provisions being made for that

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as part of this plan?

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I believe the special requirements apply

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for kids younger than two and a half.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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But you're absolutely correct.

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There are additional requirements

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for the younger kids, the infants.

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They're not servicing anyone within that category.

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Okay. All right. Thank you.

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Questions from our attorney, Hori Everson?

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Ms. McCoy, the refusal doesn't specify the location of the proposed child care.

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Would your client object to a proviso if the board were to grant to limit the use to the first floor?

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Oh, sure. Yes.

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Thank you.

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Your comments from the virtual audience?

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i see no hands chair planning commission

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amy boyd with the planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change

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to the rm1 residential multifamily zoning at this location the property is on alany's

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north 5th street commercial corridor and the proposed use is in harmony with that context

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the planning commission recommends that the board grant the requested variance for child care center

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Thank you. MI 2024-007-674-4927 North 5th Street. I vote yes with proviso. First floor only.

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Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Ryan McAdams, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Iowa, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Thank you. Number five, MI 2025, 003-977-1514 Christian Street.

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zero zero three nine seven seven fifteen fourteen christian street lewis rego is the owner applicant

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this is pro se there's a letter of opposition from the north washington avenue coalition

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and a letter of opposition from the south of south neighbors association mr rego hi could

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you please state your name and spell for the stenographer um lewis rego r-e-g-o right i'm

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sorry i did not hear the give us a minute john we'll get it straight we know that

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okay louis rego l-o-u-i-s r-e-g-o right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole

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truth and nothing but the truth yes sir our our um our board secretary cheryl l gasson has a few

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questions for you. Good afternoon. Did you submit your documents and exhibits to the zoning board

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five days in advance of this hearing? Yes. Thank you. You may share your screen and begin your

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presentation. So, Mr. Riga, let me read this to you first. The application is for use as multiple

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family household living, five dwelling units within an existing structure. In the RM1 zoning

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district a minimum of 360 square feet of lot area is required per dwelling unit for the first

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1440 square feet of a lot area with a lot of area of 1204 a maximum of three dwelling units would

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be permitted whereas dwelling units are five dwelling units are proposed um start your

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presentation yes um do you have a computer yeah forget this system oh okay

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this home has been abandoned for body get stated closer than white please

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okay the the home has been abandoned for several years um and the neighbors tell us there were

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a lot of you know drug trafficking and undesirable activity going on in the home for a long time and

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but it looked like it was been vacant quite quite a while i don't know five years or

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or more six years or six years and although i understand about the lot size that i'd like

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the board to consider you know continued use and past use and the mixed use of the neighborhood

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that it um it's part of that it fits in we're not changing any of the structure of the building

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on the exterior um except you know doors and windows and

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and um it's when you go into the home you can see that it was used as a four family with two

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apartments on the first floor one apartment on the second floor another apartment in the third floor

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and even a questionable apartment in the basement because there was a full bathroom

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in the basement and robert c say he's um the contractor and when he went all right so robert

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can't speak okay what we'll do is you can we can get him as a witness okay continue with your

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presentation the city had on record that there was use as a five family that the city did recognize

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it as a five family at some point so our proposal was to you know continue the use of the two units

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on the first floor one would be a studio about 400 square foot in the front and the second one

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would be like a 600 square foot or so one one bedroom unit on the back and then open up the

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basement you know with the requirements for the fire windows you know in the

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front and the back you know to allow for another one-bedroom apartment in the

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basement all contained within the units and just to do structural repairs and

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modernization of the whole building when we went to the neighbors and we

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delivered personal letters and tried to talk to most of the neighbors most of them were either

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positive or indifferent so even though the the coalition voted six to eleven um

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eleven against the proposal i don't think that's reflective of the the total neighborhood

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of the total neighborhood in terms of opposition to the structure.

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in terms of opposition to the

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And right across the street from this unit is another five-family condominium

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and a five-family apartment building.

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Down a few blocks, there are multiple five-family buildings on Christian Street.

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And the neighborhood itself is a mixed-use neighborhood.

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The church is used as a church, as a school, the Baptist church on the corner. It also is used as an Airbnb that the city recognizes. There's also commercial shops on the city, multiple three family, four family homes, duplexes, you know, churches, businesses.

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so I feel like

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the building fits along

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with the structure and the use

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is both a continuous

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use based on

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the design and the city's

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why don't you show us your plans

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and then you have the photos

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this was the

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we have all that

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we're good

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okay so there's the exterior so that would be the the first drawing on your um is that a basement

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right is the basement so that would contain a living room a bedroom you know the current bathroom

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you know and some living space and then this is the first floor which was divided like with two

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different kitchens in the front and in the back and two bathrooms and it also goes to the back

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deck on the first floor and then there's all the main entrance devised to go upstairs to the second

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floor which would be like a two-bedroom apartment and then the third floor another two-bedroom

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apartment that's um you have photos of it right now or um yes there okay it looks like the old

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owners started to do um construction to open it up and we just like to finish it and

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make it a viable

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home that it would

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I live and work in the

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city and I would be

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living there with my wife

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and we would rent out the other units

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so we were thinking of just taking the first

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floor of one bedroom

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and then rent in the

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other units and

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keeping things

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beautiful and orderly

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and continue to be part of

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the community

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Okay, is this your witness? Is there some testimony you want to offer from this man here?

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Yes, Robert C.C. is...

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Could you plug in your mic? Make sure your mic is plugged in, right?

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Hello?

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Yeah, could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?

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My name is Robert C.C. C.C. S.E. S.A.W.A.

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You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

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Yeah, I do.

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And what testimony do you want to offer?

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I just wanted to confirm that during the process of dealing with the city for this building,

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we have realized that, like he stated, I think as early as the early 2000s or late 90s,

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this same building has five apartments, you know, as it is now, as we're trying to do.

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So, I mean, we're not changing anything.

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We're just trying to just go by as it was, five apartments.

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So I think it would be in the interest of the city, the neighborhood, to make sure that

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it would continue because, like he stated, they didn't have been really a black eye on

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the whole street.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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So he's just trying to uplift the street, the neighborhood.

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But for some reason, some other people have not been in our corner.

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But if we are allowed to do this, it will really help to leave the street.

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I mean, right across from all, you can see the fire story.

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You can see the TV story, the same thing with fire apartment.

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It's the same thing we're trying to repeat.

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We're not adding anything.

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We're just structurally going by the same thing that was there.

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So I really hope

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the vote would consider us

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to make this thing go to.

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Thank you for your testament.

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We appreciate it. Questions from the board?

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Yes. What's the depth of the basement below grade?

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Yes.

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What's the depth of the basement

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below grade?

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What's the question?

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The depth of the basement?

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The depth of the basement, there's enough depth to have at least a seven foot.

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A seven foot. Seven feet or three feet. I tell you seven feet to the inches. I think 82. 82 or 84.

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but that's to the ceiling I'm asking below grade

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because right now it looks like there's an

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entire unit that's being proposed

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for the basement

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right

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and I'm

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I just I'm curious about

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the egress wells they're not

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they don't appear to be drawn

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on the plan

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I was trying

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to figure out how those windows

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relate to the grade

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at the ground level

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It would be where the billow door is in the front window, and then in the back, the side

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back would be another window that's currently in the basement that would be used as an egress.

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So those would be two window egresses.

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Can you speak up some more?

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I can barely.

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There would be two window egresses where the billow door is would be the first window egress. And then there's a window in the back of the basement that goes to the backyard that that would be the second egress, you know, with a window.

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neither of those appear to be where you've got the bedroom placed in the basement also for the

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bill code door at the front is the plan to replace the bill code door with a clear cover

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it would that i mean that back door is supposed to be the egress well so uh according to the new

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plan the back door will go and they will pull an egress well there and turn that into an egress

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window so the entrance to the basement would be on the first floor and then you're saying that the

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ceiling heights are seven foot three um yeah it's about it i think it is between 82 and 84 the height

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from the floor now uh and there's a chance it we're going to dig maybe just about two to the

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inches we'll be able to get uh the required you know so there's this is not existing you're going

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to add this unit to the basement there's a full bathroom there already and it looks like some

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living space okay yeah it's the bathroom mechanical room and you can have a bare room living room and

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so the the well would go on the the back on the side and then that would also be a way to get

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to the backyard and and back to it there's an alleyway that goes to there's an alleyway that

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back there that goes from the backyard to montrose street okay and then for the first four unit where

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like i can see that you've got unit one and two sort of split with a thicker line where are the

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bedrooms for the the rear unit yeah the rear um the first floor the first floor the rear bedroom

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room is at the back there um you will see if you look where's the first look uh

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it's just showing efficiency yeah okay right there that's a bearing there

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there's an addition no no it's existing it's there

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oh that's got it these are addition they are there already okay there's an error in their

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opposition letter that there's no rear addition to be added to the structure that's erroneous

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and i think it's because it's drawn currently as though it's not existing okay it's actually

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drawn as though it's going to get demolition demoed but oh okay yeah but it goes there's

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the back deck there in the florida door okay so these are most they're all one bedroom apartments

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and then you've got a deck

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at the second floor

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for Unit 3

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only.

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There's a deck on Unit 2 also.

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The second floor has a deck.

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The third floor has a deck

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on the roof deck.

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And these decks are existing?

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Yeah, all existing.

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Everything's existing.

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Everything. No addition.

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Okay.

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and i mean the comments that from the um north of washington group that they felt the opposition

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north of Washington group that they felt the opposition was the five units were too many

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denying occupants sufficient housing space. I feel that's very biased, especially we're in

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one of the largest cities in the U.S. and studio apartments are very common and desirable

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to single people living. So I feel it's like a bias. And they were saying, oh, we want apartments.

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I'm not sure that's a bias. I mean, I just think their opinion is that some of it's too small. I mean, and I think, I mean, part of part of one of the things we were stuck with here is like, you should only have three units, right? Isn't that what they're saying? Right, but right, we're only have to for their space. It's only three units.

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they also mentioned about families that they wanted apartments to be more desirable for larger

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families yeah well that would yeah i mean yeah i mean these are not these units are not for families

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well that is that is clear um i felt that's a bias that it's whether you're single or have a family

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you know it's i i don't know you're not going to be keeping your your apartment in order and

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What they're talking about is that usually you would have 1,440 square feet to start with.

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You've only got 1,204 square feet, and you're trying to have five units in that,

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and the units are supposed to be 360 square feet for the first 1,440 square feet.

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And then after that, okay, then you start getting into that any other additional units would have to be 400, I think it's 80 square feet.

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So you don't have anything close to what you would need in terms of square footage for this building to justify five units.

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We're also bringing up it's continuous use and there's a mix.

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I don't see anything in here that says that you were allowed to have five units.

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You say that you looked at something and you saw it.

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Where is that in this exhibit packet?

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I was talking about the basement.

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The basement has enough space there to bear on an apartment.

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Do you have photos of the basement?

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Did you show photos of the basement?

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showed a couple photos it doesn't look I mean I don't the square footage that

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they're talking about in terms of usage is for the entire building you don't

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separate out the basement and say well the basement has some room here so I can

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use it no it is the total square footage for the building no total square

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footage for the building would allow you to have three units what I was talking

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What I was talking about was space for an apartment in the basement.

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It's special enough for a single or two bedroom in the basement.

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That's what I was talking about.

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No, you can't do that that way.

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Okay, so I think...

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And we just want to make it one bedroom in the basement, not two bedroom.

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So, do you have anything you want to add?

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No, I just think looking at the neighborhood, I think it fits in with the current neighborhood and it wouldn't be a detriment to the neighborhood and part of continuous use.

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And there's there's similar structures, you know, within the area.

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And I think that the neighbors most the majority of the neighborhood you were to vote for everybody would not be opposed.

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They would be indifferent.

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Okay. Right. Thank you very much for your presentation. Any other questions from the board? Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson.

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Not so much a question, but I just recommend that the board hold this matter for discussion. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

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Yeah. That way we can have a thorough discussion. Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

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chair we have

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Vicki Ellis

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they'll be coming back in as a panelist soon

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sure

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Vicki

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Miss Ellis

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she should be coming back in any minute chair

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sure well I'm fine we're good

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sorry hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yes my name is vicky ellis v-i-c-k-i-e-l

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Yes, my name is Vicki Ellis, V-I-C-K-I-E-L-L-I-S.

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Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Ms. Ellis, are you a neighbor?

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I am a near neighbor. I live three doors away at 1520 Christian.

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Why don't you start your presentation?

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Okay. I've written letters, but I think for brevity today, I just wanted to focus on

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a couple of things. And then in addition, based on the testimony of the owner,

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I've lived here 33 years.

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I'm very familiar with the changes in the neighborhood and very familiar with this property.

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I think I just reiterate what's been said.

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It's zoned for three units.

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And I would say that there's not been continuous use.

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It's been an attempt at Airbnb by the previous owner.

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The previous owner tried mightily to bring this up to a livable space.

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There were people in and out of there, but it's been very, very problematic.

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So there's that.

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It was referenced to two new constructions across the street.

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That's true.

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Those were built prior to the preservation district of Black Doctors Row.

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They were both new construction, and they're both much larger buildings than this building, and they do have four or five units in them.

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They're not usually fully occupied.

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I'll just say that.

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It was mentioned that most of the neighbors were talked to.

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I got something in my door maybe three or four days before the SOSNA zoning hearing.

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I was never talked to.

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I just want to reiterate, too, that in terms of density, we really need units where families can have affordable housing.

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We have a lot of units that are unaffordable for families, in particular school-age families.

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We have a wonderful school at 17th and Christian, Stanton School.

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It's been saved from closure twice by the community rallying around enrollment matters at small neighborhood schools.

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The less we have affordable housing for families, it impacts the enrollment at good neighborhood schools.

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And as has been said, five units of the size proposed will not be for any families.

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And I also want to just add that there are no permits and work has been being done.

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There's a work stoppage order by L&I posted on the door and work continued to be done after the work stoppage order, which was posted on October 2nd, which just added for me, it added a that the owners and contractor were not operating in good faith.

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okay um thank you for taking the time to cause we appreciate it is there anyone else in the

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virtual audience here we have murray spencer they'll be coming back in as a panel shortly sure

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i'd like to say that well why don't we do this why don't we do this why don't we when i get all the

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witness is done then i'll give you a chance to respond okay all right mr spencer yes hi mr

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spencer could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer murray spencer m-u-r-r-a-y

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s-p-e-n-c-e-r right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but

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the truth mr i do i do mr spencer are you a neighbor i live in the 700 back of christian

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street i am the chair of the south masonic committee all right thank you very much sir

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Please, Prasheed. Not to prolong this, Miss Ellis pretty eloquently stated the issues I was going to mention.

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One thing she didn't mention is the two new five unit buildings that are across the street are four stories tall.

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And as she said, they're much larger on the ground. They go back almost to the street behind them.

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That's why they're allowed to have five bedrooms. And the reaction to that was, you know, it resulted in Black Doctor's Row.

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So we won't have any more four-story buildings built new on Christian Street.

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The Bill Codora in question is not on the plan.

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And I think at the very least, if you're asking for a branch, that it should be on the plan.

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I'm an architect. I would have drawn that on the plan.

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The biggest issue that SOSNA had is, as Ms. Ellis stated, and as you board members have stated, that five units in a building of this size is just rather inappropriate.

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The biggest issue that Sosna had, as Ms. Ellis stated,

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And I think, you know, rather than prolong this, I'll just say that's my testimony for today.

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Thank you very much for calling in. We appreciate your time.

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Thank you.

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Is there anyone else in the audience?

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Chair, we have Keenan Barber.

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How many more hands do you have?

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Again, as a chair, we have two more after the person that's coming in now.

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Sure. Thank you.

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Hi, could you please state your name as Bell for the stenographer?

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Hey, good afternoon. My name is Kenan Barber March. It's K-E-A-N-A-N. Last name is hyphenated.

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The first is Barber, B-A-R-B-O-U-R, and then a hyphen March like the month.

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um do you swear or hold on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the

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truth i do are you a neighbor i am yes are you in favor of this project or against i am against it

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all right and is there anything you can add that hasn't already been said because we've had a

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little bit of testimony against it no i just wanted to speak up as i was here um echoing

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everything that especially murray just said um regarding the neighborhood i think on the

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density comment and Vicky as well, regarding the need for families, the need for space

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regarding density. I think it's also important to call out the largest real estate project in

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the country is about a block away. That's 1,001 South Broad, which is over 2000 apartments and

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across the street is Lincoln Square. Right. So when it comes to a density question, I mean,

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I live on that block. I have four people in my family and a house that has more square footage

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than that one. I can't imagine four other families living in this space or four other people living

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in the space. I just resound everything everyone has already said, and I won't take up any more

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time. You can take up our time, but we do appreciate you taking the time to call. Next

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person, please. Chair, we have Mark Monteith. They're coming in as a panelist now.

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mark yes hello hi mark could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer

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my name is mark monteith mark with a k m-o-n-t-e-i-t-h

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all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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i do mark are you a neighbor i am all right are you in favor of this project or against

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i am against and mark is there anything you know you've heard some of the testament is there

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anything you could add uh i will agree that uh five units in this particular property is

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entirely unreasonable but i have a new matter which we discussed at the last meeting about

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this property and that is the um incorrect dimensions shown on the site plan on the rear

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at the southeast corner the there's a public way that extends all the way from 15th to 16th

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and then has a little jog in it makes a 90 degree turn and goes to um montrose street okay and that

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That has been in continuous use for at least two and a half decades by several of the residents

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on the east half of the block.

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We've used that way to walk from the rear of our properties past the rear of 15, 14,

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and to Montrose.

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So the site plan needs to be corrected to show a three foot by three foot square missing

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from the southeast corner.

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There's currently a gate that has been erected sometime in the last year that's actually blocking that way.

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And that is our second means of egress.

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So we'd like to see that gate be turned 90 degrees so that we can continue to use that route.

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All right. Thank you very much for your time.

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We have one more hand.

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Chair, we have one more hand.

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Madeline Shacumba is coming back in as a paddling snail.

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madeline uh yeah can you hear me i can could you please state your name

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and spell it for the stenographer madeline chicumber spelled m-a-d-e l-i-n-e right

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Madeline, you're involved with one of the RCOs, am I correct?

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Madeline, you're involved with one of the RCOs, am I correct?

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Yes, I'm involved with the North Carolina.

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Yes, I'm involved with the North of Washington Avenue Coalition.

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So let me ask you this.

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Are you in favor of this project or against?

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I'm against this proposal.

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Ms. Cumber, could you please, is there anything you can add that hasn't already been said?

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Because there's been a lot said.

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Well, the gentleman has started to do work on this property without permit.

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Right.

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I think we've heard that.

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We've heard testimony relative.

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Okay. My letter clearly states that the size of this place, as I already stated in my letter, is inadequate. We need affordable housing, and we're pushing for affordable housing that is, how do you say, sufficient for people to live in and not try to squeeze people into something that makes it impossible for them to even raise a family in.

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this is one of the reasons why we are opposed to this

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he already

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we already talked about

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I talked about this with him

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and I explained to him why we are opposed to it

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because the fact of the matter

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does not allow enough room

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for a family

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and we're not squeezing people in

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a place where he can

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so that he can make

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money

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it's feasible to make money

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of a three family house

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but he wants to make it into five and we just can't allow that all right all right well as

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usual thank you for taking the time and your interest and thank you for calling us is there

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anyone left mr chair can i ask another question you certainly can okay um after hearing from the

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neighbors i guess my my big question is there's a proposal here to put five units in a place where

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you could do three more reasonably by right what is the actual hardship that is the justification

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for the five given everything that we've just heard um it's the financial model isn't favorable

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as a three you know like the financial model isn't favorable as a three unit building and it's like

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we said it's been a continuous use the design on the first floor is as a two units and there is a

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bathroom in the basement we could open the first floor to to make the basement just live in space

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for the first, you know, apartment one or two

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on the first floor.

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So I'm open to that, to have it as maybe a four-family,

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but I feel like there's been a lot of bias here

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from what the neighbors are saying, you know,

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that are, again, single...

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Listen to me, that's your viewpoint,

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but what I heard people say was

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they think these units are too small.

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and other people said

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they'd prefer to have families move in

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because then you could put kids in school

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and things like that. I don't think that's biased.

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I just think it's their opinion.

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I'm not going to argue with you about it,

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but that's my opinion.

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But they put it in writing, too.

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And it's

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with Vicki,

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I had a personal conversation

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in front of her house,

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so I don't understand why

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she's saying that she's never spoke to me

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or never heard about the proposal before that's totally inaccurate she was telling me she she was

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coming from a group that they host at her house and and all this and okay i was just listening

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so just to be clear about the the gate in the back that gate was there all right it's pre-existing

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and okay that's so just to be clear the response to my question is that the financial model only

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works with five units and that that is why okay okay i'm yes correct okay yeah so you just they

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just agreed to for them he did i'm just clarifying the answer because okay great okay planning

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commission well hold it is there anything else you want to um no just it's a tremendous expense

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I'm not this investor or developer.

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I'm just here to improve one house on the neighborhood

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and make it a desirable place to look at

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and to provide nice housing for residents.

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All right, thank you very much.

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Planning Commission.

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Amy Boyd with the Planning Commission.

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The comprehensive plan recommends no change in zoning

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to the current RM1 residential multifamily.

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While the property has a documented history of five units in 1957, that has been abandoned

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and as the apartments have not been occupied for over the limited time to constitute

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and as the apartments have not been occupied for over the limited time to constitute illegally

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non-conforming use moreover the current interior structure is not habitable on the current

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condition the proposed five units would constitute an overuse of the property the planning commission

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recommends that the board deny the requested variance for unit count thank you um we're going

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to hold the vote on this on the 29th of uh october at 2 p.m we will vote uh and we will have time in

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that morning to go to executive session and all the board members can have their input into this

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okay so thank you for your time we appreciate your time and thank you too sir is there anyone

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in the audience who um whose case has not been called on the 330 list

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i don't see no hands chair uh before we go off taya we want to thank you because we know you

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do not feel well and you hung in there the whole entire day and and uh we we we hope it's just a

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cold and you're not really sick here and don't call any of your friends anymore because they'll

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get you nervous so we but we do thank you for sitting there in fact at one point i was going

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to just tell you to go lay down somewhere

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but I'm about to do that

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right now, Chairman.

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We do appreciate you. Thank you very much

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everybody. Thank you. All right, see you.

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Good night.

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Be well, Kyle.

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