Okay. And this is a public-private project? Are there private dollars in this project?
Yes, there are private dollars, both in State public and in City public dollars that are included.
Okay, and what's the level of fund-raising at this point?
That I will have to check, but it is not 100 percent yet. I'd say maybe it would be -- this would only be a rough --
So is it accurate to say that there might be 40- or 50-million- dollar gap in funding?
I think that is on the order of magnitude -- again, without saying the exact numbers, but I think that's on the order of the magnitude of what still remains to be funded. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 79 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
That's my understanding. And what's the prospect of closing the 40- or 50-million-dollar gap, and who plans to do that?
What are the prospects of filling the gap? And who do you believe is going to fill the gap of 40 to 50 million dollars for this project?
I think the prospects are considered to be very, very high. And the potential sources continue to be private fund-raising and institutional support.
Well, why do they need our 12 and a half million dollars now? COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 80 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
I think the idea is to try to make sure that we have all of the funding in place during fiscal -- hopefully, as early in fiscal '99.
Well, that's based apparently on the belief that the 40 or 50 million dollar funding gap is also going to be closed in FY '99?
I think that's -- I believe that that's the hope and expectation, yes.
Excuse me, Councilman, could I interrupt on that topic. You know, I think that this whole Regional Performing Arts Center might be worth a briefing, and I say that because I hear a lot of questions. And what I propose to do is to circulate among the Members of Council some proposed briefing times so that Councilmembers can COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 81 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 sort of hold those times open. Because I think it's probably not a bad idea to have Bill Rouse and Stephanie Nadoff come in to do it. I don't know that we need to do that at a public hearing, but it might not be a bad idea to have them come in and just sort of tell us where we are on all of that, because it is something that is widely discussed. And it shows up -- I've asked these questions in the past. Every year, you know, we see at least $10 million here and, you know, we get into this -- some parts of this discussion depending on, you know, the circumstances. So I think we all need to know precisely where we are on the Regional Performing Arts Center. There are -- those are the people responsible for it, and I think they should come in and just give us a briefing as to where we are. And I'll be responsible, along with the Administration, for setting aside a time so that Councilmembers can get fully briefed on it. Because this testimony is very confusing. And nobody here -- I mean, I can tell that Councilwoman Verna and Councilman Nutter and COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 82 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 I have some questions. We don't really want to belabor it, but we really do have to understand it, we have to understand it, because there is a very significant amount of public dollars that sort of keeps rotating in and rotating out. I'm informed by Mr. Certo here that the way we used to do the budgeting that sort of laid out the money in the past years would give us a little clearer picture. We don't do that now. So on the one hand, the document is a little simpler. It doesn't give us much information, but it does breed a whole new level of questions because now we're sort of trying to figure out what it is we remember. So I will make the commitment to the Members of Council to get that briefing together so that everybody can know where we are in the Regional Performing Arts Center.
Well, I appreciate it, Mr. President, because based on the Q and A, I mean I'm perplexed to understand at this moment why we continue to put so much money in this particular project that has seemingly its own problems. It's had its fits and starts. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 83 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 And I also had on my list an issue that my colleague Councilwoman Fernandez raised, which had to do with the library branch renovations. I mean, they are our libraries. I don't think this is our Regional Performing Arts Center, and the fact that it has its own problems and we seem to be scurrying around, trying to find additional dollars to finish up what everyone seems to agree is an appropriate project, which is our branch libraries, I'm a little perplexed to understand why we put 12 and a half million dollars into this one, which is clearly not ready to go, when we've got other ones that are ready to go that clearly don't have the funding support that they need. And there is an inherent conflict between this project and its particular location in the context of a larger project on South Broad Street versus the rest of the City. And so I'm having a little trouble understanding why at this moment in a project that clearly is not going anywhere tomorrow, why we put an additional 12 and a half million dollars in it when we've already invested some money in it. And COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 84 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 the people who really want the project, it seems to me, have to do a little more work to get it. So I'll wait for the briefing. Why don't we go to the next line, on line 48, New Facilities for Independence National Park. This seems to be the much talked about Liberty Bell Pavilion. Is this also involving the Constitution Center?
Well, there are three blocks to the mall. The Constitution Center under the new plan, the Parks Services has proposed, would be in the third block. This does not contribute to the third block improvement in any way or to the Constitution Center. This money would go toward a new complex that would house the Liberty Bell and a new Visitors Center that is called "The Gateway Visitors Center." It's intended to be a gateway, not for the Park, but for the City and for the region. Now, the --
Is this going to replace the little round building over here on JFK? COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 85 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
That's another -- the Visitors Center at JFK, there are plans to renovate a portion of the ground floor of City Hall, to accommodate the Visitors Center that's now in the round building.
And then there'll be another Visitors Center down at --
Right, the Visitors Center down at Independence Mall. The Parks Service has had a Visitors Center, I guess, since about 1976. It is located, unfortunately, on Third Street and Chestnut, and a lot of people don't -- it's not in the mainstream of the way people arrive and use the facilities of the Park.
It also only serves the Parks Service, and the City's relegated to a little card table in the corner. And the Parks Service has certain restrictions about what they can do in that Visitors Center, what kind of information they can give out, etc. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 86 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 The Pew Trust did a tourism study and looked at in what way they could become involved.
They said that they would spearhead the effort. They thought the important thing that could happen for tourism was to have a new -- in addition to putting up this money for the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation, GPTMC, they wanted to spearhead the effort for a new Visitors Center that would be for the City, the region, and the Park. It's a $30 million facility. The Pew Trust has put up $10 million, the State has put up $10 million, and we're putting up $10 million. But not all our money is going into the Gateway Visitors Center. Roughly half and half, although it hasn't been exactly decided, will go into the Liberty Bell and building a new complex of buildings to house the Liberty Bell, which would be on the first block at the corner of Sixth and Chestnut.
With Pew's fund-raising, the total cost of this, to remake the first two COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 87 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 blocks of the Mall, which is not just the Visitors Center and the Liberty Bell Pavilion, but also includes relandscaping and everything, and the Parking Authority has to fix the garage. It's about a $65 million project altogether.
All but about $3.8 million of that funding has been identified, including our $10 million; $1 million of which was programmed last year and the remaining $9 million.
Well, my question on this is -- and maybe this goes to the ownership question of the Liberty Bell. But for many of the activities going on in the Independence Mall area, it just strikes me, I guess, as a little strange. These are not only Philadelphia but national treasures. And so I wonder why we have to pay for a location for a national treasure such as the Liberty Bell, in contrast to what I either believe or assume happens in Washington D.C. I mean, I assume that the citizens of Washington D.C. don't pay for the Washington Monument, the Smithsonian, and the half million other various monuments and COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 88 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 buildings and other activities that go on in Washington D.C. And so I'm just trying to understand why the citizens of Philadelphia have to pay for a location for the national treasure of the Liberty Bell.
Right now, there is no 16 federal contribution to it. It is hoped that they would come up with some of the remaining funding that's missing. Virtually all of the money that's been raised, aside from the City's 10 million and the State's 10 million, has come from private foundations or contributors. I think the Annenberg Foundation contributed $10 million, as well.
Have we ever asked the federal government for any funding for this COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 89 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 wonderful place in the City?
The federal government's contribution to Independence Park has been significant over the last few years. Principally that's been in the renovation of Independence Hall which, you know, some of the side buildings are still undergoing renovation. And in redoing the utilities for the entire park, it's very expensive because they're all underground and have to be dug up and replaced, so I think about $75 million of federal commitment was obtained through Congressman Foglietta to do that. Now, I would certainly agree with you, we don't get the kind -- I mean, we don't get what they get in Washington for all those federal facilities, but that was a fairly substantial contribution within a very short period of time. I mean, I think when that project has taken place, by the time it's finished, it will have been about a three, three and a half year project.
Okay. I mean, is that something we can explore, though, the prospect of some additional federal funding to COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 90 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 help us?
The Parks Service has asked in their budget request for the additional money that we're hoping, you know, to complete this project. And I'm sure the lobbying forces are at work to try to see that that happens. We've also gotten the federal government to agree to take over Washington Square and make it part of Independence National Historic Park, which will be a relief to the Fairmount Park budget, both operating and capital. We had to make a certain contribution to bring it up to standard. But we also did get through Congressman Foglietta, I think, $2.6 million from the federal government for that. The deal was they wouldn't take it over and make it part of the Park System until it was brought up to a certain standard. The problem was that all of the paving stones had deteriorated, and that project is going on right now. I think it's about a $4 million project to replace. So once it's up to standard -- and, as I said, we did get federal contribution to bring COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 91 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 it up to standard -- then it will no longer be our responsibility; the Parks Service will take that over.
If I can, at least this round, ask this one last question. The pictures in the first part of the presentation, were some very good examples of the benefits of the capital budget and program over time. I did want to ask, though, what is, in your view, Miss Kaplan, the infrastructure renewal plan for our residential areas throughout the City or those areas that surround many of the facilities that we put dollars into to make improvements? We make wonderful facilities, or we try to make our facilities look as best as they can. Unfortunately, as the case may be, many of the neighborhoods around those facilities are still in very poor condition. And so, you know, you have to get there.
Well, right. I mean, we have been -- I think there's two issues. There's sort of neighborhood infrastructure: streets, COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 92 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 street lights, those kinds of issues.
As well as -- well, before we even get to streetscape, just make sure that the streets are in good repair and, you know, everything's working, everything's in good enough shape to be working properly and delivering proper service. And then there's also the question, you know, of housing and what can be done about that. One of the things we have tried to do in this Administration -- and we include it as a neighborhood project -- is to increase the amount of money that we allocate for the resurfacing or reconstruction of neighborhood streets. We don't include the major arterials or the streets that are eligible in the Federal Aid Highway Program, but the tertiary streets, the street that really serve houses. This year we have $13 million in the budget for that. If you compare it to last year, it will show a decrease in that amount. But, in fact, it's not really a decrease because it was last year's. And I believe maybe a year or two COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 93 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 before that, we were under a court order to use a portion of those funds to construct ramps for the handicapped. I think last year, out of or $18 6 million, about $4 million of the total went to the 7 construction of the curb ramps and not into the 8 street reconstruction. So we're roughly trying to 9 maintain the same level of funding. So that's one 10 way that we think we've made some progress in 11 recent years. 12 The other thing, we can't spend City 13 capital dollars directly on housing. And so what 14 we've tried to do is to make the housing dollars 15 that we get through the Community Development 16 Block Grant and through other special federal 17 programs like I showed, the Cecil B. Moore Home Ownership Grant, try to make that money go further by using some City capital dollars to pay for total reconstruction of the infrastructure in those areas.
And that's a fairly expensive proposition. For example, we showed the slides of COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 94 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 Raymond Rosen. And, you know, we tore down high-rise structures. Well, there weren't City streets through that site, so if we're going to now replan that site for these town houses that I showed you in the slide, you have to put in, you know, all new streets, curbs, sidewalks, street lights; all of that infrastructure is new. And we are paying for that out of the City capital program so that the housing dollars can, you know, go into housing. Because we have no way to get more of those housing dollars. Schuykill Falls, in fact, in your district, where we got a huge amount of money -- I think it was $48 million to renew the housing development, to build new housing. It didn't include infrastructure, site improvements, a recreation facility that is intended, so we will be supporting that. The first million dollars is in those capital program. Over the next two years, we'll be allocating additional funds to pay for those improvements. You know, so we are trying to do that. We also put money in site improvements COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 95 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 for commercial strips which are neighborhood- based, and we do put some money in even where we're not building new housing. Where there's a significant amount of rehab activity occurring in a neighborhood, then that justifies the use of City capital funds to come in and do even curbs, trees, sidewalks, that kind of thing.
Right, but most of those usually are also project-based.
Right, or at least sometimes we're doing like houses in 4 blocks, 13 even if they're scattered. 14
I guess what I'm 15 asking is, in the areas where we don't have the 16 benefit of either a Schuykill Falls or a Raymond 17 Rosen, where we have to create new -- what I'm 18 really talking about is some of the older areas of 19 our City where you don't have housing development 20 going on. I mean, they're just stable 21 neighborhoods areas. 22 I mean, what is the plan if there is 23 one. And if there's not, then for the moment, 24 that's okay. 25
Right now, the only thing COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 96 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 we would have is the money we're putting in, the $13 million a year or whatever we're putting in for street resurfacing. You know, there's no specific money in there for curbs and sidewalks because that's viewed as the private owner's responsibility. The Streets Department does restore and renew the lighting fixtures and the signs, you know, kind of on the life cycle replacement, you know, kind of schedule.
But there is no plan like to go into an area and, you know, do it. I think large --
Okay, is it possible to go in and do something like that?
I think it's certainly possible to consider it. I mean, one of the problems I think that we will run into is the question of what's an eligible capital cost.
But I think we certainly, COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 97 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 you know --
Is that something that the City should be doing as we go forward?
I think it's certainly worth, you know, consideration. We're working on this project with the Planning Commission, sort of trying to look at how the City can improve its competitive position sort of in the region to compete for people, you know, to retain and attract people to keep our population up, just the way we do with jobs. And, you know, that's one of the things. You know, people say, Well, the housing's obsolete. Well, sometimes the housing's obsolete, but sometimes it's more that the neighborhood infrastructure's obsolete. So certainly it is certainly something that's worth some serious consideration.
No, for next budget COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 98 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 year.
Thank you, Mr. President. Okay, Miss Kaplan, on , budget line 95, could you explain the $5 million for renovations of Eastern State Penitentiary?
Yes. The Mayor has sort of made a challenge to the prison society and the preservation groups who are interested in preserving and renovating Eastern State Penitentiary. And the Mayor has said that if they could raise $4 million, we would give them $1 million, so it's kind of a challenge. Thus far, they haven't raised any funds that we know about. We did put in some capital money last year, I think about 450,000, to try to put a roof on some of the structures there, to prevent damage from water. And that is happening COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 99 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 now just to, you know, seal up the facility and make it weather-tight. What we have said is, in view of all of the other capital needs that we have in the City, you know, we did not want to commit more resources to this unless there was a demonstrated effort that they could really -- they've been saying that they could raise money. We're sort of putting their feet to the fire and saying, Well, okay, if you raise money, we will put up a share of this. So that's what this is. They are actually on a shoestring, doing some fairly significant tours through the prison. They had, I think, about 17,000 visitors last year doing this sort of thing, with no 17 budget. They got a big article in the New York Times, in the tourism section, about Eastern State Penitentiary.
I actually saw that article. And when I saw the caption, I didn't know it was talking about our Eastern State Penitentiary.
And you thought that it was a great place. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 100 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
And I saw this thing and I thought, This is a wonderful thing they're doing there. And then I got further down in the article, and I said, This is over on Fairmount Avenue. But, actually, I did happen to see the article.
And actually, what -- I live near there. So amazingly not -- and it's gotten enough publicity that the commercial trolley tours that go by now go right past the prison because everybody wants to see it, even if they don't have time to go in for a tour. So it has attracted some attention even nationally. It's not that far from the Art Museum. A lot of out-of-town visitors who do go to the Art Museum can find their way there. And this, I think, is considered a World Heritage site. It's a very significant site. Unfortunately, you know, it's extraordinarily expensive to be able to really restore the building, so what we're doing is sort of a holding action, hoping that other resources from other sources, other than the City, will be found to put into this development. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 101 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
We will put 1 if they put 5 4. And it may take them a while to get the 4.
So what you're saying is that once this gets in the budget, it gets carried forward each year.
My next question is, when I heard the Liberty Bell mentioned, it reminded me that we have a lot of art and valuable possessions here in the City of Philadelphia. And in conversations with the Public Art Office, I find that they desperately need to do an inventory to determine what they have, what condition it's in, what we believe we have, and I COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 102 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 understand that that is not going to be funded.
No, I think it was, it was. It's in the Commerce Department. Let me see if I can find it. We've already funded the first phase of that, and I believe the rest of the money is in here to complete it. Oh, it is line 52, $200,000 to complete inventory.
Well, that's good to hear because I was told differently, that it was not in the budget.
I was told that it was not in the budget. So you're telling us it is?
No, I think what happened was, you know, we do this in stages and conference with departments, and we send out a first draft to all of the departments before Christmas. And at that time, either it wasn't COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 103 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 included or only partial funding was included, and they kind of appealed and gave us more information, and we provided the rest of the fund -- the rest of the funding got in when we did the final version.
Okay, my final question is, we talked about the Youth Study Center. And there's been some concern out there, especially since it's a shift operation, about additional employee parking. Do you know if there been any requests to expand the off-street parking for the Youth Study Center?
No. That did not come up in the budget discussions that we had.
Thank you, Mr. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 104 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 President. What happened to your clock?
Oh, we've been trying to survive without it. I'm sure when that operating budget shows up, we'll --
Okay, thank you. My question is -- now, I'm not sure who would be prepared to answer this, probably either Barbara Kaplan or Steve Mullin. It's about the line item number 47, Avenue of the Arts, specifically the north improvements. Could you just give me an overview of what those improvements are and how far north we're going.
Okay. These are really streetscape improvements for Broad Street, from City Hall north to Lehigh Avenue. Now, we're not going to --
We're not going to do COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 105 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 every single block all the way to Lehigh Avenue, and I'll explain, but it was always intended that we would do a streetscape treatment on North Broad Street the way did on South Broad Street. There are two difficulties, or two issues, that we needed to come to grips with. One is, there's a much longer distance that was laid out. And the second one was that, you know, and nobody was going to walk like -- it wasn't really a walkable distance, and that there are a lot of blocks in that area that are, you know, for industrial uses or that don't really need a streetscape because somebody's not really going to really walk there. But a plan was done by the Delta Group under contract to the Streets Department with a lot of community and business participation. And then they came up with an overall concept which treats certain major -- provides custom treatments for specific intersections where there is a lot of commercial activity or where it's anticipated that there will be activity, either commercial activity or arts activity on North Broad Street, such as Girard Avenue, Cecil B. Moore Avenue, where COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 106 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 there's already a lot of activity because of the Apollo, Broad and Susquehannah. And you know, a couple of others. And these concepts for these specific intersections have been included in a plan. There's also a concept for the interior block treatment to be applied wherever there's a block where there's development activity or arts activity that needs us to come along and complete the package by putting in that kind of treatment. Now, we did get money from the State, 3 million, I think, 3.15 million or something like that, which we showed in last year's capital budget. And this year we're putting in the $2.5 million of City money. So we have a significant amount of money to start that project. And, as I said, there is a concept plan. What we now have to do is to go into design and bid documents, but we can definitely start implementation of that in the budget year.
Okay, thank you. I'm aware of the improvements, and I think they're necessary, and I would encourage that. And while they're all taking place in the Fifth District -- COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 107 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 (Laughter.)
And I know that a certain portion of money went into the First District and part of the Second District as far south as Washington Avenue, but that's just about a mile south of City Hall. And when I look at North Broad Street going to Lehigh, I would also like to encourage -- and I've had some discussions, I believe with you, Miss Kaplan, and Steve and, I believe, Dean about doing some additional improvements, maybe not as elaborate as the improvement on South Broad Street going to Washington Avenue, but going from Washington Avenue to maybe Patterson. And that way, the First and Second District can share part of that capital budget improvements. Because, you know, I've had some ideas about Passyunk Avenue, which you've been very helpful with, all of you, and I thank you for that. But I would like to, going forward, see what we can do about finding some money in capital improvements to enhance the appearance of Broad Street going south. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 108 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
Well, we might take a similar approach as with North Broad Street, where we focus on those activities.
Thank you. I'd like to ask some questions about a much more long-range kind of concern that we always have to have. And I'd like for somebody to, for my own recollection, explain it -- and for the edification of Councilmembers and others who might be observing us here, explain where our capital debt limits come from.
It is, of course, a trick question. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 109 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 The City has several different numbers which we call our capital debt limit. The formal capital debt limit is the amount the City's allowed to have as borrowed indebtedness overall, and that's related to the tax rateables in the City, currently a little bit over $9 billion. A percentage of that, which I believe is about $1.5 billion is the number that the City's allowed to borrow G.O. borrowing for, and I don't know that number exactly but I will get it and forward it to you. So that's the cap that the State law sets as to what the City can borrow to finance various G.O. projects. And currently, we have spent about half of that, so there's about 7 or $800 million remaining, which sounds like a lot of money until you realize that we're looking at a capital budget G.O. borrowing every year of about $125 million. So that is an issue which, in the next four or five years, we're going to have to look at very closely.
I don't know exactly, but COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 110 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 I'll get a cite for you and forward it. I believe it's in the First Class City Bond Act, but not being an attorney, I could be very wrong.
Get what you can. And it is my understanding that in order to do this capital program, you're talking about borrowing 127.5 million of new tax-supported loan dollars?
As the normal procedure would be to take a -- we've proposed to Council a loan authorization ordinance. We would go to the voters in May, and we're proposing to go to the bond market in September.
Do you propose to go to the bond market in May of 1998?
What I'd like for COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 111 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 you to do is produce some kind of analysis which shows over the next five years or so what our debt capacity looks like and where we are in it, with a view toward giving anybody that might have some question about any of this the comfort that we need to know that we aren't overspending on the capital side. And I'd like for you to also include in that analysis what the operating budget implication of all of this is. And I say that because -- and I guess I'm also speaking to Councilman Nutter here and other members who have raised this. And you could correct me if I'm wrong. You're proposing to spend an additional $127 million. That could be 135, it could be 140, it could be 110. So if Council decided we think 127 is too aggressive, right, I mean, we could say we want to take all of that money for those recreation centers out of the budget. Just kidding. Or, I mean, we could recommend, you know, some reduction in the spending. Is it fair to say we could also recommend some increases in the spending? COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 112 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
Obviously, Council has that opportunity. I think when I provide this analysis, you'll see that we're -- I believe we're pushing the limit on what we're borrowing now. This is probably the maximum we may borrow.
Well, now, you can't have it both ways. I thought you said that we were in good shape.
I think we are in good shape, but I don't think we want to go out and add 10 or $20 million a year for the next several years, either.
All right. What I would like for you to do is provide an analysis based on your best judgment that justifies the $127 million and suggests to us that it shouldn't be anymore than that and that it shouldn't be any less than that either. Because, in every case, people are exercising some judgments about what should be spent and how it should be spent. And I think it would be useful for us to know why it is you're recommending that we spend this amount of money, and not some amount less and not some amount COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 113 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 more. Okay?
Now. . . I think my time is up. I will now go back to Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you. I have a couple of questions for Miss Bittenbinder. Could you tell me, what does your department do, what duties in your department are duties that were within the Procurement Department. What is the relationship there?
There's no 14 duplication. The Procurement Department and the Capital Procurement Office work hand in glove to bid out public works. And basically, we design the projects and we give them to the Procurement Department to advertise for bid and they manage that bidding in award process. The Procurement Department and the Capital Program Office do work together in order to find efficiencies and accelerate the rates of bidding and contracting.
Okay. The $1 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 114 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 million to support positions, is that 22 additional positions --
Yes, that's correct. 8 The 22 people that are paid out of Operating are 9 employees that we do not have justification for 10 them to be paid out of the capital budget because 11 they either do not directly manage capital 12 budgets, they're more the operations side of the 13 department. 14
Are they included 15 in the 85? That's what I wanted to be clear on, 16 maybe I didn't -- 17
So you have 22 19 operating positions that are positions from the 20 operating side of the budget? 21
That's correct. It 22 should be noted in the 85 paid out of Capital, there are 6 employees who reside in the Department of Public Property and they are from the Communications Division, but we pay for them out COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 115 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 of Capital because there's eligibility there, but yet, we do not manage those employees. And also included in the 85 are from 5 the Fairmount Park Commission. 6
Okay, thank you. 7 Mr. Mullin, could you tell me, what are 8 the projects that would be funded in the Economic 9 Stimulus Program? And how are those projects 10 developed and determined to be funded? 11
By that, I understand from 12 the earlier conversation, you were talking about 13 the port proceeds portion? 14
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, 15 item 66 on in the Capital Program, the 16 yellow book. 17
The yellow book, let's see. We have not concluded a full listing, but the types of projects that we have thought about including in this allocation include things that we -- that in the past we have included in the Neighborhood Economic Development section or a portion of allocation of the Stimulus Program projects, such as fundings for projects associated COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 116 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 with the Schuykill Falls Hope Six project, the West Parkside Retail Project with the Empowerment Zone, additions to Partners in Progress which we've funded in the past through stimulus programs, housing projects, potential housing projects, including one in your district as a possibility and the infrastructure there.
I want to know what housing project you're talking about, because I haven't had any conversation with you --
Right. COUNCILWOMAN TASCO -- about putting any money in the budget for a housing project in my district.
I know we haven't. We're familiar with some discussions, and these again are only -- these are not allocations that are set in stone or commitments that we make.
Well, how much did you allocate for the housing project in my district?
We -- Barbara says she thinks it's about 4 million; I would have said about or million. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 117 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
Okay. And so how did you all come to that determination that you should allocate the money to a project?
I guess two steps. One is, this was a project that if it's something that looks like a project that would get the kind of consensus and approval and wanted to move forward, this would be the type of source of funding out of all the types of sources that we could identify. This would be the type of project that we would say would fit here, and it looks like it would be a good type of expenditure out of here. Again, this is not meant to mean to say that we have said yes, absolutely.
Well, when were you all going to talk to me about it?
See, what you all do is put us in the position of being the bad guy. So you determined that you're going to appropriate money for a project in my district without any COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 118 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 conversations, and we may have another group that may want to do some work, and then we pull the money from the project, and then we are the bad guy.
Without any conversation with the District Councilperson, you appropriate money for a project in my district without any conversation.
Yeah, that's why I want to try to make it very clear, there's nothing that's appropriating money out of the allocations of the money. We are proposing an overall appropriation of -- I want to say 39 million, whatever the number is there. But the allocations of that -- in other words, what will be spent is still under determination. We wouldn't want to propose anything that people are not -- without going though with the various District Councilpeople.
Well, see, now I'll get a news article tomorrow that says that the City in the capital budget has $4 million for a developmental of housing. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 119 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002
Well, I'm just saying, you know, because when I asked earlier what was the money going to be for, my good friend Barbara Kaplan said that there's money there for the Temple Stadium site. And that poses a problem for me up there with that Temple Stadium site because we're nowhere near talking about any development on the Temple Stadium site. So then what? The people in my district are going to call me, they're not going to call you. And I have to explain to them how it got there.
Let me just clarify something. This money is being transferred from the capital budget to the operating budget, so it's not in the capital program. And when we make appropriations in the capital program, they do have to be fairly specific for specific projects. This money that will be transferred to the operating budget, as I indicated before, probably there will be a contract with PIDC for them to administer the money. And that money will COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 120 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 be -- is flexible at that point and, you know, subject, as I indicated earlier, to, you know, some of the ideas that people have for how this money could be used may fall out. I mean, a lot of development projects, you know, are very uncertain. Sometimes they seem like a good idea and then they're not financeable or they're not wanted or for other reasons, they drop out. So that this is -- this isn't -- these projects are, first of all, not in the capital budget. And, second of all, they're certainly not set in stone, you know, the way the line items you see here are for other specifically mentioned projects. So there's plenty of opportunity for those projects to be discussed, you know, and for various decisions to be made as to whether this money would even be allocated for those purposes.
Certainly, I would like to have some discussion regarding any of the stimulus money that is targeted for the Ninth Councilmatic District because there may be other priorities that we may have other than what you COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 121 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 might think. And I don't know who you're talking to in my district. And, certainly, our constituents hold us accountable for what goes on in the district. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. President. I'd like to go back to a question that I asked earlier, for some clarification. And since Mr. Mullin's here, I'll direct the question to him. I asked the question about the inventory of art and the condition of it throughout the City. And Barbara Kaplan's answer was that there is money in the budget, $200,000. Now, I read that it's for a conservation of art. From what I understand, $200,000 does not include an audit. This is not enough money to complete a City-wide audit of all of the art that may be out there. So I need to hear from Mr. Mullin, will $200,000 cover the conservation of all existing COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 122 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 art and also provide a City-wide audit to find out what we have and what we don't have?
Let me -- now I understand what you're getting at. I apologize that I didn't get it the right way before. There has already been an audit of all of the -- I think it's still being completed, but the money has been allocated from previous capital programs for the Art Commission to undertake that inventory. And we have also put some money in the past, and the additional $200,000 in this year, to begin to address those pieces of public art that we found out through the inventory really need some attention. I believe one of the pieces that will be done this year is the football -- the Punter statue by the Stadium. It is considered to be in very bad condition and needs immediate attention. I think the only piece that we did not fund shown is -- and it's shown in the out-year as an additional -- an assessment of memorials and markers that are placed throughout the City, some of them not necessarily -- most of them probably COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 123 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 not placed with City money because they may have come from a veterans' organization or some other private, nonprofit organization for a specific purpose. Those are the ones don't have the inventory of, and that's what got delayed into the out-years of the program. I think you'll see it there. There's 75 -- you can't tell it from the blue book, you have to look in this. If you look there, you'll see the $200,000 in the budget year and then the $75,000, I think, that was for that assessment of memorials and markers that had been deferred to a later year. But the big assessment of the public art that is City-owned and, you know, on public property, that money is funded. I think in the course of doing that study, the people doing it kind of came to understand that we had all these other sort of markers that were out there and memorials and not necessarily originally placed by the City, but that we really ought to know where they are because most of those are on public land. And by default, we're probably responsible for them. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 124 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 And so that's what's been deferred.
I would hope, Mr. Mullin, that the folks in that Public Art Office know that because of the fact that many people have an interest in these memorials that have been placed on public land. And, you know, we've had this discussion or the impression that this is on the shelf and not going to be addressed.
Right. I will talk with Carol there. I was under the impression that she realized that the accelerated schedule that they were originally requesting was put in -- it was -- actually, it was around where the initial amount, which, as Barbara mentioned first, was increased. But we basically had to put in the out-years -- namely 2000, 2001, and 2002 -- the continuation of those programs. But I'll talk to Carol about that, to make sure she knows.
Do you feel as though that that really should be delayed, knowing that --
I voted in City Planning for this allocation here. And I probably would have -- I mean, I've supported my office's and the COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 125 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 Public Art's Office request, but I think that this is a good first and second step, but a third and fourth will still be needed, and we're also trying to see whether or not there's some other potential sources that we can speed up, especially the non-publicly-owned memorials.
Mr. Mullin, let's go back to , line 66, Port Proceeds Account Transfer, the Economic Stimulus Program. I assume this must be the money that -- I seem to recall toward the tail-end of the June session, I believe we had an appropriations bill 16 for upwards of $30 million for the Economic Stimulus Program.
No, this is -- this would COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 126 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 be monies for FY '99, beginning July 1. These are monies that are currently found in the Port Proceeds Account in the capital -- stored in the -- accounted for in the capital account.
All right. Well, what happened to that appropriations bill?
I believe the $30 million you're referring to are proceeds from the tax lien sale, which were similarly appropriated to the Commerce Department and transferred to the PDIC for the Economic Stimulus Program. The Commerce Director would have to give you a detailed breakout of how those were spent.
Well, let's talk about that first. So you're saying that the PDIC has upwards of $30 million in economic stimulus fund proceeds.
The Commerce Department, through the appropriation last June, amended -- we amended our stimulus contract with PDIC to add 30 million, and that 30 million was broken down at 15 million in the business retention and attraction loan pool, $10 in neighborhood economic development and $5 million in housing. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 127 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 And those funds -- I don't know the exact amount that's left now, but those funds had been used, and I can get you the total amount. But overall, the stimulus program has received in the last two and a half, three years, approximately $65 million.
And is it your testimony that that $30 million has either already been spent or allocated already?
No, definitely not spent. And I don't know the exact proportion, but I would say some proportion and probably on the order of at least half or more in each of those accounts. The total 5 million, for example, in housing has been committed. John Kromer has several projects that extended the earlier stimulus housing programs. And the neighborhood economic development, I would say, is about half committed. And I think the business retention and attraction is about two-thirds or more committed. And by "committed," that means identified for projects through PIDC through the City, and it does not necessarily mean expended.
Okay. That, I COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 128 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 guess, takes us back to the initial questions. I think, prior to your arriving here, that Councilwoman Tasco and Councilwoman Krajewski raised questions about dollars being committed to various projects, apparently prior to the respective District Councilmember's knowing that a project is apparently moving along and is attracting or carrying some funding with it. You said you can get us a full accounting of the $30 million?
Okay. And why is it that lists get developed and projects get developed for funding prior to virtually any contact with the appropriate Councilmember? Why does that happen?
Well, I'd like to -- there are really -- I mean, these are two separate things, I believe. The 30 million in the previous stimulus years, those were when City Council made the appropriation and the Commerce Department made the contract with PDIC. What we did was we gave broad COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 129 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 categories, basically the broad categories that I just mentioned: neighborhood economic development, business retention and attraction, and housing. And the first year we had the Administration and the Mayor's Business Action Team, Services to Businesses, those broad categories. And through the course of the economic development calendar and year, various projects, deals, transactions, retention cases, programs would either be designated, be developed, be thought about, and we'd identify, Well, perhaps we can find some stimulus funding or perhaps we can find some funding from block grant or any of the other sources that we have. So that's how those in the previous years have been developed. In this year, when we're talking about the port proceeds, one of the things that we wanted to try to take a look at was, are there some projects that we know of at whatever level, even if it's just people just talking very -- you know, very, very preliminarily. Right now, are there some projects that COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 130 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE/BILL 980001, 980002 don't seem to fit block grant, for example. They aren't in areas that are block grant-eligible, don't seem to fit capital because they won't involve our ownership. And they're the types of projects that we might -- if they came up, we might say, Well, let's take a look at stimulus funding as a possibility. All we were doing in this particular case was saying, Here are some things that we know are out there, as we sort of culled around internally who's working on what or who knows something there. We said, How many of these programs or how many of these projects are there that we might want to look at and propose in advanced as opposed to ex post?