civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - November 16, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Nov 16, 20215h 16m

It will change and evolve as we kind of continue

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to talk to property owners and see how we can create

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some more public space on 2nd Street,

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make better use of the street in general.

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And, you know, the addition of another driveway, an actively used driveway, like this one, is going to definitely impede some of the things that we have been thinking about doing to Second Street to make it just a better commercial corridor in general.

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I do think that there will have to be additional loading zones. That one space certainly won't cut

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it, regardless of whether this ends up being one commercial tenant or three. Also, I'm fairly

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um also i i'm fairly certain and i'd love this to be verified that circles actually pays for um

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certain, and I'd love this to be verified, that

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the loading zone that's in front of their business and i think it would be um not not a great plan

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to bet on using that space which they use often for their delivery vehicle their delivery cars

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to deliver um their food um i do kind of think that that you know this elevator plan um it's

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untested in this neighborhood. We already have a lot of congestion on Second Street with

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delivery trucks of all varieties just parking in the middle of the street.

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And I do worry much the way that Larry had cited that this is going to create something of a backup

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as cars are trying to enter and exit this parking garage. And, you know, the addition of

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residential parking on the commercial corridor it you know it doesn't really add to the commerce

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part of it um and which is kind of where my my focus is um it's not adding parking for instance

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for shoppers and people who might be coming to visit this place those people um would be relying

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on um the on-street parking um i think that you know the tipping point for us might be um if this

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parking was available, you know, for instance, for shoppers, and it would be a slightly different

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conversation. But the fact that it is there to support the residents, it will encourage people

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who own cars to live here. And, you know, just in general, like Larry was saying, you know, for us,

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just maintaining mobility, and that pedestrian access is really just a high priority for us.

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i just want to see if russin allers available just to respond to some of the um the functionality

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okay while we're waiting is there anyone else who would like to testify in this case

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yes chair we have mary jones if jason can allow her to speak next

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ms jones please identify yourself you're still under oath

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ms jones you can unmute yourself okay i thought i was unmuted sorry about that i'll start again

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um based on communication mary just identify yourself that's all oh oh okay um mary jones

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from um daryl clark's office thank you okay sorry about that uh yes um based on communication from

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the uh um coordinating rco um citing their concerns about safety and interrupting the

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pedestrian flow uh the council president does support them and ask that the board

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opposed as variance for parking thank you thank you anyone else

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is rustin or available to speak yes i'm here i didn't realize it was the fifth district

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he used to be the first all right uh rustin please spell your full name and i'll swear you in

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Rustin, R-U-S-T-I-N, last name Oler, O-H-L-E-R.

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Where from to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Rustin, can you talk a little bit about the mechanical parking and the controls that are in place and your experience with that?

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Yes.

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So we've done these in several other buildings.

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And, you know, normally for a 25-car parking garage, we would only typically just put in one elevator through our conversations and looking at this site.

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We've chosen two, so there's basically one dedicated for down and one dedicated for up.

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And we've also recessed the elevators back into the building, which creates a reservoir space both for the car coming down and for the car coming up at the same time on site.

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and allows those cars to be set back with a wider entrance so they would have a view of

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you know the sidewalk before they would pull out they would then be able to cross the sidewalk and

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then there's essentially because the parking on this street is perpendicular instead of parallel

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with the sidewalk we have another reservoir space where the parking lane would go so essentially

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you have two reservoir spaces on the way in and two on the way out without impeding traffic or

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the sidewalk. We've also spoken with the owners and if the need or if the board should so see,

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we have the ability to introduce a flashing light or signal or some sort of other pedestrian

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notification for pedestrian safety. Also with all of our projects where we introduce curb cuts,

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we do change and delineate the sidewalk pavement just as additional means of safety to notify

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uh the sidewalk pavement just as additional means of safety to notify somebody that's not

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paying attention um that there's something clearly different going on there

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uh you heard my questions uh rustin uh there was a couple but yes if you could be specific i'd be

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happy to answer well i was just curious if you eliminated one or two or quite possibly the three

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on-street parking perpendicular spaces to the right of the lane that I guess is the ingress

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lane to the garage. Would that be something that might make sense in terms of queuing up in the

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event there's some stacking of cars getting into the garage? Yeah so if you look at the plan that

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we have now just for what we need to make the curb cut with of how it comes out straight

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with the streets department regulation there's already naturally room for another car to the

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right on coming in before you get to the parking so there would be room for another car to pull

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over there um and then yeah if we needed to make additional loading or um we could do that it

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would basically have to be designated as a no parking area because the streets wouldn't want

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us to widen our curb cut um but yes again but russian i guess what you're saying is because

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of the width of north second street you have you could you could actually queue along this area as

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well or we could remove some of these no no so what i'm saying here because between the car that

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you show going in with the dash lines and the first parking space there's already room for

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another car there right here right um you have about you know nine feet from the car to where

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that first line is so there's already that natural room there so essentially you have a car in the

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elevator that's functioning the elevator moves um it goes up and down in about a minute um so it's

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pretty quick then you have a car um in the recess area you have another in the drive lane there's a

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room for another one's the right of it so you essentially got four cars going down and three

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cars coming up and there's only 25 spaces in the basement so um as far as industry standard goes

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i think the amount of reservoir room that we have is excessive so thank you all right um

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any questions from the board uh yes mr chairman no is there any is there any data on the uh

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breakdown of these lifts i'm sorry i didn't hear that the list for the cars

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would you repeat your full question i we didn't yes any data

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going to break down the mechanical system for the lift of the cars like how they function and

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operate and speed and stuff yes i mean we we have that data from from our specs that we use to

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design around what's the service uh regularly what's the service on them

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well just as a normal elevator that you would have in your building so regular and routine

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maintenance um you know they have to be inspected every six months or so um they are they're

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governed under the same rules as as the uh elevators in the building because they are

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registered for it's not just like a mechanical lift it is meant for a person to be in the car

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while it's while it's moving so it's governed under the same rules as any passenger elevator

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that you have in any building thank you any other questions

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No. Just to be clear on that, PRDC manages all their own properties. They have a management

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company. They have hundreds of units under management. So that's stuff that they maintain.

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Thank you. Is there anyone else to testify?

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Yes, sir. Mr. J. Crosby with his hand raised. I will allow him to speak at this time.

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Sir, please spell your full name and I'll swear you in.

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Jay Crosby, J-A-Y-C-R-O-S-B-Y.

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Where are we from to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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Yes, I do.

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Thank you, sir. Please proceed.

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So recently there's been a change in the parking on 3rd Street between Poplar and Wildey, where now it's all three-hour parking.

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and i know that there's also some talk of developments uh another like thousand units

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plus up around the liberty walk area so any of this that i can see coming to

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our neighborhood that's going to provide more parking we absolutely should be doing it and i

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think as long as we're doing it in a safe manner which it sounds like that's what's happening here

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like we're taking into account the safety of the pedestrians that this actually should be approved.

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I'm all about parking. So I know for me, I've lived here for 30 years.

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I'm all about parking. So I know for me, I've lived here for 13 years and having my kids in

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a car and trying to be able to find parking now has just been a complete struggle. So I think

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that we should really consider approving this as it's definitely going to create, you know,

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a lot more parking for us. Thank you. Anyone else?

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Mr. David Grasso with his hand raised I will love to speak at this time sir

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Mr. Grasso please spell your full name and I swear you in

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sure my name is David D-A-V-I-D Grasso G-R-A-S-S-O

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you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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I do thank you sir please proceed

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Mr. Chairman Madam Vice Chairman thank you for your time today

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um i live about uh two blocks from this site i walk my dogs by in front of this property every

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single day and you know what i walk past before getting to this site are cars parked on the

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sidewalk numerous cars parked on the sidewalk numerous cars parked up to the curb up to the

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corner blocking handicapped ramps. And that's because there's not enough parking in this

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neighborhood. We have a project here that's offering, a developer that's offering of its

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own volition to add additional parking that's not required. And the neighborhood doesn't want

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that for some reason. I've heard all of the reasons that they've given for it, but that

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makes absolutely zero sense to me adding additional parking here will will free up the parking spaces

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in front of this building for the retail if people are going to have cars it's it's a fallacy to think

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that just because you don't provide parking people are not going to have cars 100 they're going to be

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cars they're going to be people in this building with cars and they're going to be searching around

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the neighborhood to find a place to park and they're going to park on on this on the sidewalk

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walk and up on the curb because there's nowhere to park. And not only that, much of the streets

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surrounding this neighborhood are unregulated, meaning that they don't even get tickets for

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doing that. So to me, it seems ludicrous that the neighborhood association is opposing this

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project or this particular variance to allow additional parking. Now, as some of you know,

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I'm a real estate developer. I've been doing this a long time. I've developed several projects in my

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career that have mechanical lifts very similar to this. They're very simple operations. They're

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one-stop hydraulic elevators, essentially. They don't have a lot of moving parts.

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They don't break down a lot. And you're only talking about 25 cars here. I don't see how

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there could be a lot of backup of cars trying to get in and out of this thing. There's only 25 cars.

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So, look, as a neighbor, as a resident, I just see this as being something we should welcome into our neighborhood, not something that we should turn away.

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So I'd urge you to vote in favor of this application.

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Mr. Grasso. Anyone else?

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No further hands at this time, sir.

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Thank you. Mr. Grigos, I think it was mentioned, is there anything in the plan that talks about a warning device or devices so that pedestrians would know?

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Yeah, I think what we can do, I mean, prior to building permit, we're going to have to go back to streets department on that design.

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So I think we can agree to work on warning devices, the queuing, and continue to work with Northern Liberties Neighbors Association on that.

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I think the warning devices will be beneficial to everybody.

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Yeah, and we think that makes a lot of sense.

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And I think it's something that would, you know, I guess we should have had that on here.

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But I think it's really something that when we come to the building permit phase is where that stuff gets added with the streets department.

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But I think that is we are absolutely willing to do that and willing to continue to work with the neighbors.

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because we understand Larry's point that it was a tough call

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and that we have great respect for Northern Liberties

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and we have great respect for the councilman,

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who I think is usually on record as seeking additional parking.

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So we think there's a way to do this

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that meets both the need for more parking

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and does it in a safe way for pedestrians.

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And I think as we get through the design phase

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with the streets department,

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we can loop in Northern Liberties

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and make sure we have all those warning lights

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and queuing if it's appropriate.

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Thank you. And if the board were to approve this this morning, there's afternoon, whatever time it is, it is afternoon, I would ask that you stay in touch with the RCO as it relates to a warning device and talk to them about the type of device they would have, you know, one that may be a silent one with the light flashing as opposed to a beeping sound, whatever.

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Thank you.

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And if the board were to approve this this morning,

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this afternoon, whatever.

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Just work with them. I think that would be helpful.

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We always do and we're happy to continue.

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Okay, Planning Commission.

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Thank you Chairman DeChico, Ian Hegarty for the Philadelphia City Planning Commission.

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Members of the Board, in 2014, the zoning map was amended in this area from I-2 to CMX

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2.5 in accord with recommendations from the comprehensive plan.

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With respect to the height variance, the height was previously earned as described.

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Sorry.

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Excuse me?

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There is no height variance.

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It's been withdrawn in the request for removal of the freshman year.

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Yes, that's understood.

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and if you would allow me to finish my um testimony i would thank you apologies um the

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height was previously earned through the now defunct fresh food bonus and provided that the

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applicant intends to continue to provide the fresh food store we do not object however with the

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respect to the variants for parking access uh we concur with the rco and the business association

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and the council member's office uh that the and we concur that this variant should be denied the

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purpose of prohibition on public parking access from a primary street is to preserve and enhance

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pedestrian safety and comfort. This proposal will be a detriment to both regardless of pavement

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markings or warning devices. Provision of parking is not as desirable at this location as it may be

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in others given the intensity of the pedestrian activity and the proximity to the L station and

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we further believe that the hardship here is self-created since there is no parking requirement

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in the cmx 2.5 zoning district city planning commission recommends that the board deny the

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variance for parking access from second street very interesting case interesting arguments on

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both sides um mi 2021-003378 814 north second street my vote is yes with the proviso request

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to remove fresh food market withdrawn.

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Carol Tenere, my vote is yes with proviso.

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Professor Plaza, yes with proviso.

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Thomas Holliman, my vote is no.

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I would ask, is there anyone who feels that they've not been recognized on the 930 list?

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Please raise your hand.

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Any unfinished business, please let us know.

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No hands, Mr. Chair.

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Thank you. Thank you all. See you back here at two o'clock.

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Okay, Mr. Chairman.

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All right.

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