civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - September 8, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Sep 8, 20216h 24m

to have you gather updated information as you did up the street in 2021. So I have no further

Similar wording

questions for this witness. Okay, thank you. Mr. Whelan?

Similar wording

No further questions. I think Mr. DiMartino opined expertly.

Similar wording

are there any other witnesses uh not on my end madam i understand that there are a number of

Similar wording

people who wish to speak and support um from the community but uh they will be doing so on their

Similar wording

own or on behalf of their organizations so at this time i would close for uh paul to or mr bonnie

Similar wording

So at this time, I would close for Paul, or Mr. Bonnie, rather, to proceed with his case so we can get this done.

Similar wording

rather.

Similar wording

Okay, Mr. Bonnie.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

I have a relatively brief opening statement, as Mr. Whalen did, and I'm not saying that my statements are evidence,

Similar wording

but I want to give the board an understanding of what our case is and a little bit of a roadmap as

Similar wording

to the evidence that we're going to present. And without further ado, generally speaking,

Similar wording

we believe that this is a massive overdevelopment of the site given the environmental constraints.

Similar wording

Those constraints are, of course, the steep slopes. And we will get into that. And when I say steep slopes, I'm talking about 25% grade or greater.

Similar wording

And also, we believe it's a massive development of overdevelopment of the site, given the surrounding areas on this hill, the small houses, both rental and home ownership on this hill.

Similar wording

And we will give some history with this area, this precise area, because, of course, this was a complex, if you will, a public housing complex known as Schuylkill Falls, owned and operated by the Philadelphia Housing Authority since the 1950s,

Similar wording

with two very large high-rises and then a lot of low-rise residential development

Similar wording

as part of the public housing development.

Similar wording

That was demolished in the 1990s and redeveloped in phases.

Similar wording

So we think that's critically important to understanding the context in which this parcel sits.

Similar wording

um to to touch before i expand on that a little bit as far as our legal argument is we're going

Similar wording

to we we believe the facts that we'll be presenting will demonstrate that there is no hardship

Similar wording

because the site can be developed in a reasonable way without impacting any of the steep slopes

Similar wording

and so that therefore um there is no hardship we have a secondary argument sort of an argument in

Similar wording

the alternative. And that is that if the board does find that there is a hardship, that there

Similar wording

is a much lesser variance that could and should be granted to cure that hardship. And as you saw

Similar wording

on one of Mr. Whalen's exhibits, and as we will go into, you know, there's largely two bands of

Similar wording

steep slopes on this property. They run horizontally. The upper band is much larger

Similar wording

and wider than the lower band. And as I said, our first argument is that

Similar wording

a reasonable development can be made on this site without impacting either band.

Similar wording

But if this board does find that there is a hardship, we believe that certainly only the lower band need, the much smaller lower band need be impacted to reasonably develop the site and that that lesser variance would be the variance that this board should grant if it does find there's a hardship.

Similar wording

Of course, this stands in contrast to what the developer is seeking, which is 100% alteration of all of the steep slopes on the property.

Similar wording

Moving on, we are going to present testimony about the Schuylkill Falls public housing development.

Similar wording

And we're going to explain, as we touched on obliquely during the first hearing, that the site was to be redeveloped with PHA and real estate partners in three phases and that the very low density development was done in the first two phases.

Similar wording

And this is the now sort of the third phase referred to as phase three, and that PHA, in fact, proposed to the community and to the tenants and residents of Schuylkill Falls, a 30 unit, 30, 30 units of an apartment house of 30 units for this property.

Similar wording

30 30 units an apartment house of 30 units for this property and we think that's very relevant

Similar wording

in terms of explaining to the board that a much smaller project is is reasonable for this

Similar wording

for this site um uh you know we will have testimony from uh neighbors and people who

Similar wording

lived through that process about the redevelopment of this site. And we're going to be providing

Similar wording

other evidence about how the site can be reasonably developed. But at the end, at the end of the day,

Similar wording

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Bonney. When you've referenced other evidence, have you produced

Similar wording

any exhibits to the board? No. Okay. And it's not our obligation to do that. We're members of the

Similar wording

public and um we have no such obligation it's we've confirmed with the board solicitor in other

Similar wording

in other cases i make no statement as to whether you're obligated to or not i was simply going to

Similar wording

ask that you email me copies of whatever you were going to present um madam chair again just to

Similar wording

move this along i certainly understand mr bonnie can present what he wants to present as long as

Similar wording

as long as you allow it. But I would suggest that anything with regard to or any kind of

Similar wording

agreement, written or otherwise, there is no mean PHA and the neighbors in history would be a third

Similar wording

party agreement that is irrelevant to the present application in front of this board.

Similar wording

The present application is based on the underlying zoning. It is revised as we've set forth and any kind of agreement or lack thereof between PHA and the individual neighbors or community groups would be a third party agreement that could only be enforceable by the court and would not have any bearing on this matter. Thank you.

Similar wording

I'm not making, let me stop sharing. I'm not making that argument, Mr. Whalen. I'm not making that argument. And I'll be clear because there is a couple of documents in which PHA had proposed a much smaller building.

Similar wording

And one of them is this settlement agreement that we referred to last time and that we will be showing today.

Similar wording

And yes, it's an agreement between community stakeholders, including my client and others, and PHA.

Similar wording

But we are not introducing it here today by any stretch of the means for saying that it's an enforceable document and that we're asking this board to enforce that document.

Similar wording

We are not. Even if we ask the board doesn't have the authority to enforce contracts, and we know

Similar wording

that, you know, people disagree as to whether it's enforceable or not, we don't want to get into any

Similar wording

of that. All we're doing is we're showing that PHA did propose a much smaller project. And we are

Similar wording

using that for the sole purpose of saying it is reasonable to put a much smaller project

Similar wording

on this property. We would assume that without any pronouncements from PHA,

Similar wording

if we said something smaller could go here, that the applicant would say, well, it's not reasonable

Similar wording

to have something that small. And we think this evidence says the opposite, that it is reasonable

Similar wording

to have something that's possible.

Similar wording

It's not our entire case.

Similar wording

It's part of the story that we're telling

Similar wording

and we don't even need to,

Similar wording

we're not trying to enforce that document.

Similar wording

So we don't need to get-

Similar wording

Mr. Bonnie, I'm sorry.

Similar wording

I don't need to interrupt you,

Similar wording

but I think we understand that you are submitting this

Similar wording

in order to go to the least minimum requirement.

Similar wording

We have such limited time now, if we could move on.

Similar wording

I'd like to call my first witness.

Similar wording

Okay, was all of that your opening argument?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay, first witness.

Similar wording

How many witnesses do you have?

Similar wording

Five.

Similar wording

Okay, and they're going to be brief.

Similar wording

Well, we...

Similar wording

You know, let's not get into this back and forth.

Similar wording

Call your first witness.

Similar wording

My first witness is Ms. Emily Nichols.

Similar wording

Ms. Nichols, you can unmute yourself and please wait for Madam Chair.

Similar wording

Ms. Nichols, put your name and address on the record and spell your last name.

Similar wording

My name is Emily Nichols, N-I-C-H-O-L-S.

Similar wording

My name is Emily Nichols, N-I-C-H-O-L-S. Address, 3655 Stanton Street, Philadelphia, 19129.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes, I do.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Thank you, Ms. Nichols. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions a little bit later, but

Similar wording

But, you know, I understand you have sort of some opening statement to make.

Similar wording

And why don't you just take it from here and I'll jump in when I need to.

Similar wording

What is the opening statement?

Similar wording

Is it a letter that's going to be read?

Similar wording

No, she has some remarks.

Similar wording

Ms. Nichols is the president of the RCO, the East Falls Community Council, and she's going to introduce her organization's position and reasons.

Similar wording

and you know to tell you why we're opposing that's great um thank you very much to the committee um

Similar wording

and and of course i'll try and keep this brief um i'm a 13-year resident of east falls i've been a

Similar wording

member of the community council for the past 10 years i was on zoning for seven years our zoning

Similar wording

committee and a member of the executive committee since 2015 since october of 2020 i've served as

Similar wording

elected president of the East Falls Community Council. Both as a homeowner and the president

Similar wording

of Community Council, I am in support of any and all developments that enhance our neighborhood

Similar wording

and benefit our residents, including the various projects we've supported in the past. Unfortunately,

Similar wording

the proposed development before you today is not that sort of a project. We don't take lightly

Similar wording

opposing uh a development in our neighborhood um and i i just wanted to make sure that that was clear

Similar wording

please tell us a little bit about the community council's engagement with the neighborhood

Similar wording

on this one um since the beginning of this year the community councils hosted multiple

Similar wording

public meetings they were all virtual uh on zoom meetings of course because of

Similar wording

the pandemic um public meetings with the developer as well as arranging some conversations

Similar wording

with some of the near neighbors and conducting tours of the community.

Similar wording

We've sought to provide a TAPCO with an understanding of the sort of developments

Similar wording

that would enhance the neighborhood in the hopes that they might revise their plans

Similar wording

to be less disruptive and detrimental to our community.

Similar wording

We've been frustrated by their unwillingness to engage in meaningful discussion

Similar wording

and particularly disappointed by their lack of concern for the negative impact

Similar wording

this development will have on residents, owners, and renters closest to the property.

Similar wording

At every step, we've hoped for substantive changes to the project design, size, density,

Similar wording

traffic, parking, environmental impact, changes that would allow us to come before the ZBA

Similar wording

today in support, but that hasn't happened.

Similar wording

At every opportunity, ATAPCO has responded to our concerns with implicit and explicit

Similar wording

threats that if we oppose the development in its current iteration, they would build

Similar wording

bigger and denser and fully exploit the boundaries of zoning.

Similar wording

regardless of how it impacts the community and the neighbors.

Similar wording

I'd like to share my screen so that we could show a couple exhibits, some exhibits. And the first

Similar wording

is, so let me just move this around a little bit. For, since Ms. Nichols is East Falls Community

Similar wording

Council, her exhibits are EFCC, not numbered as EFCC 1, 2, and 3, I believe, maybe 4 also.

Similar wording

So the first is a number of aerial photographs, and I'm sure you can see my cursor. This area

Similar wording

here is the subject property. This is Ridge running left and right, and this is Merrick

Similar wording

going up the hill. And this area here is the subject property. Ms. Nichols,

Similar wording

can you describe what's happening here in the top right-hand corner here where my cursor is?

Similar wording

That area is Falls Ridge. Okay. And those are small houses?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Or clusters of houses?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

What's down here?

Similar wording

That's a senior building apartments with commercial, ground floor commercial.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Is it 50 units of senior housing on top of commercial?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And what is, and what, is that what is referred to and what we will be referring to, well,

Similar wording

referred to by PHA as phase one of the redevelopment?

Similar wording

That's correct.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

How about over here on the left-hand side? What's going on here?

Similar wording

That's Hilltop, or the hilltop at Falls Ridge.

Similar wording

Okay. And that's the phase two of the redevelopment?

Similar wording

Okay, and that's the phase two of the redevelopment?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay. Now, going back to Merrick Road, which is right here, these houses right here, again, these are small houses.

Similar wording

I want to, let's just go a little, this is a different view, is that correct?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

little close up this is closer up so that the board uh and and everyone can see um these

Similar wording

houses on this side and then this is hilltop now i'm gonna uh go sort of more from a over

Similar wording

up from uphill near the near the ridge if you will uh looking down towards the river and you

Similar wording

we can you know see a little bit of the sloping that we're talking about uh falls ridge is on the

Similar wording

left those houses those houses with the peaked roof the 50 unit senior housing is along ridge

Similar wording

to the bottom left and then hilltop uh is is here to the right um but these houses here on merrick

Similar wording

road um and these these houses right here uh is this an accurate this is from merrick this is what

Similar wording

they look like right on eric road yes those are the houses two stories two stories and an attic

Similar wording

right yes okay and this is what would be right opposite um the 90 foot high building uh in fact

Similar wording

it would be right there would be those folks would come out their door looking at this

Similar wording

garage and then you know this 90-foot building that's being proposed is that correct that is

Similar wording

correct okay um did efcc generally support that phase one and phase two and that senior housing

Similar wording

that we all talked about yes we did okay in fact you were um efcc was intimately involved

Similar wording

as were other community stakeholders with the redevelopment of the Schuylkill Falls

Similar wording

public housing complex and these new phases. Is that correct?

Similar wording

Mr. Barney, I'm sorry to interrupt again, but we are so short on time. We understand that your

Similar wording

witness has been supportive of development in the past, but if we could focus on this project and

Similar wording

what her objections are please well we we are i'm around i'm trying to round third to head to home

Similar wording

for this this witness um but um you know we have documents to introduce about the redevelopment and

Similar wording

it's it's important so we're we're still we're still making that part of the case and i i hear

Similar wording

you i want to expedite as quickly as we can um mr bonnie i would simply uh obviously object

Similar wording

now to any uh presentation of evidence i literally four minutes ago asked you if you

Similar wording

were presenting any documents you said no i asked you for copies of them uh you said there'd be none

Similar wording

presented um i didn't say that i i will request them again from you to be emailed to me so i can

Similar wording

see them while you're presenting them um but you know go ahead obviously um madam vice chair i'm

Similar wording

happy to uh stipulate to what we can stipulate that you know the the projects that are existing

Similar wording

that have been testified to by Ms. Nichols are existing uh they were built in coordination with

Similar wording

or connection with uh PHA and that our project is not being done so um and is different than

Similar wording

those individual houses. I have a suggestion at 639, it's not likely that this can finish today

Similar wording

and I'm wondering if we need a resumption hearing. Madam Chair, with all due respect,

Similar wording

and I know Mr. Bonney objects to this, there is a clear pattern of delay here. This matter has

Similar wording

already been continued in April. It was continued again in June. There's always another meeting,

Similar wording

another continuance request, and we had extensive delay in the first hearing, and now we're getting

Similar wording

the same thing. This is already a resumption hearing that's now almost six months after we

Similar wording

were supposed to be heard for the first time. Excuse me, Mr. Whelan, I don't think it's fair

Similar wording

to suggest that Mr. Bonney is doing this only to delay.

Similar wording

He believes this is a complicated case.

Similar wording

He believes that this evidence is necessary.

Similar wording

So I think the objective here is to get what he needs to submit in as quickly as possible.

Similar wording

And Ms. Saleta, it has to be a little more organized.

Similar wording

I understand.

Similar wording

I understand we're running short on time. I would like to try and finish this witness today. It would not take probably five minutes. I'll try my best to get through in five minutes. But at least let's get through this witness. This is an important part of our case.

Similar wording

That's great. That's great. Then why don't you just follow through with that?

Similar wording

Okay, thank you. Ms. Nichols, PHA applied in 1997 for federal funding to redevelop the entire site, and your organization supported that funding request. Is that correct?

Similar wording