Yes, we did.
Okay. And then what's shown on the screen is the first page of the PHA application to HUD.
That's called the HOPE VI program for the federal grant. And the next page shows what was in that.
Well, this is the application seeking $26 million. And then this is what the application consisted of.
And I highlighted the plan objectives, the description, and also community engagement.
And on page one of the application, PHA showed a sketch which showed this building, we would call it, I would say it's a relatively small building, at least compared to the applicant's proposal that we highlighted in yellow.
And that at the bottom of page one, PHA has a little cartoon about the public engagement process for residents and adjacent neighbors guiding the development. Is that correct?
That is correct.
Madam Chair, if I could, I don't want to prolong this any further. We're willing to stipulate that all of these documents say whatever they say. Mr. Bonney can introduce all of them.
We're willing to stipulate that our development is not in line with any of the 1997 documents, but we're now talking about something that's more than 25 years ago that has literally nothing to do with this case other than to suggest that there's a different context for this property than what we are presenting.
and we're willing to stipulate to that there are houses behind us and houses to the right of us
and we are not building houses i'm happy to stipulate to that but you know there's literally
no way this can otherwise be relevant so there are no it's highly relevant i'd like to continue
i'm trying to get through this and i can get through it very quickly but there are a number of
factors in the zoning code that guide this board into whether it should grant
a variance or not. One of those factors is that the variance may not be granted if it substantially
impairs the appropriate use of adjacent properties. And we will be making that K.
That's one of our arguments, that this project is harmful to the adjacent neighbors. And it's
partly harmful because of the neighborhood that they bought into and that were induced to buy
into with certain representations. And that's relevant. There's other questions in the zoning
code about whether it affects other public facilities. And a public housing development
exists on those houses that we just showed you, many of which are subsidized. Those are public
facilities so mr bonnie again it's we understand the legal arguments but this witness is not an
expert is she can she please testify to how this will affect her how it will negatively affect her
we have other witnesses for that um is she finished then no she's she's not finished
she's helped these are documents that are maintained by the my client the east falls
community council as you'll see there's a letter from east falls community council a few pages
after this and it's and i we're we're wasting time you're right okay let me do she is testifying
about why she is opposed to this isn't she she is and then we let's let her do that and then
Can we shift it into the history of the site?
No, we can't.
No, we're not doing that.
She is not an expert.
If you want to address the history of the site, we can give you an opportunity to use these documents to draft a brief and submit that.
This witness can testify as to the negative impact that she will suffer.
Okay, well, can I page through this and then ask her a question after I page through it?
Can I page through this and then ask her a question after I page through it?
No, you must focus on the relevant information that she has, not the history of the site.
Again, she is not an expert, please.
Of course she's not an expert, but she is the president of the East Falls Community Council, which supported this document in front of you.
And again, we understand that they have been supportive of other development.
But I know specifically about this development, what is that is going to negatively impact the neighborhood and her personally?
Again, you're asking her, she's not?
We're asking her a simple question.
How does this negatively impact the neighborhood?
We're trying to give you that answer.
I don't want to go back to the, and I don't mean to be wise, it's almost like we're going back to
the Declaration of Independence. Let's just stay in the here and now and ask Ms. Nichols why she
feels it negatively impacts the area. That's a fair question. Yes, and Madam Chair, I believe
the board is permitted to ask witness questions. Can you ask her that? I agree. I agree with that.
you're allowed to ask her questions. And Ms. Nichols, you've heard the question from the board.
Do you have an answer to that? I want to make sure I understand what you're asking me. Why do
I think this will negatively impact the community? And you personally, how are you going to be
impacted by this? She's the president of the organization. It doesn't matter what she is.
How is she impacted personally? That's what Ms. Saleta asked.
So there's two different questions in front of me then. There's a question of how I think it will negatively impact the community, and you're also asking how it will impact me personally, correct?
Well, you are part of the community. You and your neighbors, how will you be negatively impacted by this specific project?
the composition of the east falls neighborhood is it strongly encourages long-term residents
whether they be homeowners or renters and it strongly encourages a sense of community
um our feeling from the beginning at looking at this particular design is that it did not do that
that it encouraged a transient population we have people who live particularly um
in that area closest, the near neighbors to that development, who have been there since
the towers came down, since those houses were built, and they bought into a neighborhood
with an understanding of what sort of composition it had. And I would say that this development goes
very much against that. My concern is to see people putting their homes up for sale or choosing
to leave what they thought would be a community they'd live in the rest of their lives um for the
sake of a development that will cater to a transient population i'm sorry but this is too
speculative this is too speculative and the board is not in the board cannot base any decision on
the form of ownership please if you're going to address things like traffic light and air
do that. Not your assumptions about how a transient population might not mesh with the
existing residents. Well, I would say you mentioned traffic. I think this will absolutely have a
negative impact on traffic flow along Ridge Avenue, which I know personally affects me
because my only access to my house is off of Ridge Avenue. And, you know, traffic now is a
challenge. To add several hundred more cars into the mix will be challenging. So that is a personal
impact for me. Okay. Is there any other impact? You're asking this witness if she's finished her
answer? Yes. Is she finished? I would say in the interest of time that I am, yes.
Thank you. Do you have another witness, Mr. By? Ms. Soletta, Ms. Soletta, Ms. Soletta,
you said I could get these documents in some other way. What is that other way?
We will allow you to, if there is going to be another hearing, and I'm not sure if there is,
You may summarize them and along with submit a legal brief attaching those documents before
the next hearing.
we would have to work at a schedule
We would have to work at a schedule where each side would have an opportunity to respond.
where each side would have an opportunity to respond.
But at this point, I guess the board
will have to make some calls on relevance.
Can we hear the next witness?
Madam Chair, I have literally four questions
that are all yes or no for the FCC.
I'm not ready yet, Sean, to turn her over.
If I could ask Ms. Zuletta and the Chair,
can i ask that this witness testify to the settlement agreement that we've talked about
of which the her of which the efcc is a party mr bonnie we want to know how it negatively impacts
the neighborhood and i think she's done a great job in answering that i and i understand and i
think she did a good job too and I'm and I'm I have a number of exhibits in this package you've
said that the current one isn't appropriate for this witness and as I look through the remaining
documents in this package one of them the last one is the settlement agreement with PHA and I'm
asking whether she can testify to that today um before I turn it over to is she going to say
anything beyond i mean the relevant factors are okay her organization was part of the settlement
agreement the settlement agreement allowed for fewer houses for a lesser development
and therefore you want you are arguing that that supports a finding that this is not the least
minimum variance isn't that the bottom line is there something else she needs to no but we need
to get that document into the record.
Madam Chair and Ms. Saleta, I can move this forward.
Mr. Bonney seems reluctant to share his documents with me.
I believe I understand the document that he's discussing.
I've seen it before from EFCC.
I'm happy to stipulate that it can be admitted as an exhibit
and it says what it says.
The board can read it, Ms. Saleta can read it,
and he doesn't need to introduce it through Ms. Nichols.
So we can please move on.
Okay. How about these portions of the other PHA documents?
You know what, Mr. Bonney, we're interested in hearing from witnesses.
We've heard one witness. Can we hear your second witness?
Because we're going to shut it down.
i mean i don't understand what's so difficult well i understand that because i have because
witness who's the second witness madam chair if i may i literally have four
questions all yes or no from for the efcc chair go ahead
um miss nichols i don't mean to be rude but i'm going to speak very quickly
You said that you've been involved with the EFCC since about 2015, I think you said?
No, I think 2014, I think.
Okay. Are you familiar with two other projects referenced as generally as the Howe and Grasso projects?
Somewhat familiar.
okay uh mr bonnie if you could stop sharing your screen i have two images to show you
miss nichols and i will ask two yes or no questions about them
miss nichols are you familiar with this image of uh the approved project at 4300 ridge avenue yes
Okay, and this is, I will say, for the record, colloquially discussed as the Grasso project that is also CMX3 across the street, correct?
And this was approved by EFCC and supported by EFCC, is that correct?
Thank you.
Similarly, are you familiar with this project at 44, 40, and 42 Ridge Avenue, colloquially described as the Howe project?
Not as familiar, no.
Okay, but is it your understanding that EFCC also approved
and supported the approval of this project?
I believe so.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Nichols.
I apologize for being so short.
It was not out of curtness.
Madam Chair, I am done.
Well, I have just-
Thank you, Mr. Bonny.
I have a brief-
Second witness.
I have a brief redirect, Madam Chair, I'm sorry,
but Ms. Nichols, would you agree with me
that none of those projects involve steep slopes?
that's correct um okay uh my next witness is i'm sorry i'm madam chair this is tanya sunkett the
is i'm sorry i'm madam chair this is tanya sunkett the administrator yes we are at the
Administrator.
seven o'clock mark just about um my staff my staff have left if you wish i can arrange a
resumption date that would be great madam chair it is really desperate at this point could we have
have a question for mr bonnie as to is there any additional witness he said he has four other
witnesses and then we're done with the whole case and we can get to a vote. Is there any witness
who's going to introduce something new or can we just stipulate that these additional four witnesses
would testify similarly to similar density traffic considerations that Ms. Nichols already testified
to? Each witness has something new and different to say and very relevant to this case. I'm not
willing to abandon our case I'm sorry. Okay so Ms. Sunkett if we have a resumption hearing can
we limit it to one hour? Whatever you wish Madam Chair I just have to look for a date
which will not be that soon. Yeah I think we should limit it to one hour and then and that's
it when we vote it. We also Mr. Bonney ask for offers of proof as to identify the witnesses
the remaining witnesses you plan to call
and what they will be addressing that is relevant.
Would you like me to do that now or by email?
Actually, can we do that briefly now?
The next witness I was going to,
it may be in a different sequence,
but first of all, I will be submitting these PHA documents
in the interim,
and I think that would make things go much quicker.
because we'll be able to refer to them
instead of having to introduce them
and doing it the more burdensome way.
So thank you for that.
One of my witnesses is Cynthia Kishenshand,
with a K, Kishenshand.
And she will be testifying about the value
and importance of the steep slopes
and the habitat that it supports.
So it's sort of an environmental witness, if you will.
If I could, Mr. Bonney, what are her credentials to testify to those aspects?
Do I have to do that at this time, Ms. Zuleta?
I think you asked me for an offer of proof.
I'm telling you the name of the witness and what they are going to testify about.
Well, I think what we're trying to find out is, is she just a neighbor?
No, she is not. She has experience and training in these areas.
Then I would say that she would have to submit a resume showing that she has some expertise in order to...
Okay, I wrote that down.
I have a witness by the name of Roxanne DeStewitt.
I'll spell it for Sean by email.
she is a near neighbor on one side of the uh in the east falls area um i'm sorry in the falls
ridge development that those little townhouses i also have another witness named and she will
be testifying to harm okay i have another witness named raymond adams he lives at hilltop which is