COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE3 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, April 11, 20117 10:15 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA10 COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE11 COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN BILL GREEN12 COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR.13 COUNCILMAN JAMES KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER14 COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILWOMAN MARIA D. QUINONES-SANCHEZ15 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO, JR.16 COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO BILLS 110135, 110136, 110137 and 11013818 RESOLUTION 110161 - - -20 2
Good2 morning. This is a continued public3 hearing of the Committee of the Whole.4 I would ask Mr. McPherson to5 please read the bills that are before us.6 MR. McPHERSON: Bills under7 consideration are Resolution 110161, the8 City's Five Year Plan; Bill No. 110135,9 Capital Program 2012 through 2017; Bill10 No. 110136, the Capital Budget for 2012;11 Bill No. 110137, the Operating Budget for12 Fiscal 2012; and Bill No. 110138,13 adjusting the wage tax.14 Today we are taking testimony15 on Bill No. 110137, the Operating Budget16 for 2012, and our first department is the17 Police Department.18 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:19 Commissioner, would you please approach20 the witness table.21 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes,22 ma'am.23 (Witnesses approached witness24 table.)25 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
May I2 just say that I'm really delighted that3 you're staying with us, Commissioner.4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank5 you.6
Thank7 you. 9 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank10 you, Madam President. Charles H. Ramsey,11 Police Commissioner. To my right is the12 First Deputy of Field Operations, Richard13 Ross. 17 Good morning, Madam President18 Verna and all distinguished members of19 City Council. On behalf of the20 Philadelphia Police Department, thank you21 for this important opportunity to discuss22 the present and future of policing in23 Philadelphia. 4 The Philadelphia Police5 Department's Fiscal Year 2012 General6 Fund budget request is $550,686,244, with7 the below-listed allocations. 2 million is the18 result of the last contract award between19 the City and the Fraternal Order of20 Police, Lodge 5, which granted sworn21 personnel a three percent raise. 5 million23 for a new class of 120 recruits. 3 The Police Department is4 committed to supporting the5 Administration's goal of percent6 minority, woman and disabled-owned7 business participation in City8 contracting. 15 The Philadelphia Police16 Department has continued to make progress17 in driving down crime in the City. 3 Our special investigative4 units, such as Homicide and the Special5 Victims Unit, continue to demonstrate6 excellence with a 70 and 73 respective7 clearance rate for homicides and sexual8 assaults. 15 I'm also proud to report that16 every unit in the Department's Forensic17 Science Bureau, such as Crime Scene,18 Firearms Identification and the DNA lab,19 has achieved accreditation through20 Forensic Quality Services Forensic21 Accreditation Program in 2010. 4 Our lab has worked aggressively5 over the past three years in reducing our6 forensic backlog. At the end of 2010 as7 compared to 2008, the ballistics evidence8 backlog decreased by 74 percent, from9 2,878 cases to 741 cases. The chemistry10 backlog decreased by 78 percent, from11 3,784 to 827 cases. The DNA backlog12 decreased by 29 percent, from 3,332 cases13 to 2,368 cases. 17 The Department has worked18 steadily to accomplish our crime19 prevention, reduction and investigation20 goals despite attrition and slowed hiring21 for sworn personnel. We've implemented22 numerous operational efficiencies and23 service improvements while maintaining24 our focus on uniform patrol. 6 For the first time in the7 Department's history, during Fiscal Year8 2011 operational units received9 individualized overtime spending plans,10 enabling commanders to monitor and better11 control their resources. The12 Department's Overtime Management Unit,13 which was established in January of 2009,14 has done an excellent job, both15 internally with providing feedback and16 oversight for all of our units and17 externally through partnerships with the18 District Attorney's Office and the19 Courts. 10 Multiple pilot initiatives11 involving patrol units were also12 implemented during the course of the13 year. 3 Other pilot initiatives4 included what has become Philly Rising, a5 multi-agency effort providing coordinated6 City services to the neighborhoods most7 affected by crime and disorder. 13 The core of our policing14 strategy remains in uniform patrol. We15 have made several important adjustments16 in our deployment to support maximizing17 the number of uniform patrol personnel18 available during peak crime periods. m. in select districts in order21 to combat violent crimes in the time22 period in which the majority occurs. 5 In summary, we're doing as much6 as we can to become more efficient and7 effective, as well as create more8 opportunities for improvements in how we9 deliver service. The Department is10 becoming more evidence-based and11 collaborative in its approach to fighting12 and preventing crime. This past October,13 the Department received one of two14 honorable mentions from the International15 Association of Chiefs of Police16 Excellence in Law Enforcement Research17 Award for our research collaboration18 involving foot patrol with Temple19 University.
3 These challenging fiscal times4 demand that we take a different approach5 to crime and public safety. We cannot6 suppress it in the short term. 11 Thank you very much for your12 consideration, and I'm available to13 answer any questions you or anyone else14 may have. 15
Thank16 you, Commissioner.17 What is your current attrition18 rate?19 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:20 We are anticipating 190 this year and21 then Fiscal '12, we anticipate 200.22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Commissioner, you mention in your24 testimony that you will be starting a new25 13 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 recruit class of 120 in the new fiscal2 year. When do you expect to start the3 class?4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: The class5 will start on or about July 1st, I6 believe July 4th -- July 11th is the7 actual start date for the 120 new police8 recruits.9
And10 when will they be ready for active11 patrol?12 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: They will13 graduate. We start them in July. They14 will come out in February of 2012.15
How16 many recruit classes do you expect to17 have during Fiscal 2012?18 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Right now19 we're budgeted for the one.20
On21 of your budget detail, it reflects22 an increase of over $6 million for23 regular uniformed overtime. Can you tell24 us why you need these additional funds?25 14 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:2 Good morning, Madam President, members of3 Council. I'm Deputy Commissioner Jack4 Gaittens.5 Looking at the overtime, you6 are correct, it is a $6.2 million7 increase. Of that, $3 million is8 allocated for the Casino Unit that the9 Commissioner referenced in his testimony.10 As you are aware, the fact that we were11 only able to hire 120 and two classes12 were cancelled last year, that leaves us13 with a significant challenge as far as14 keeping the staffing on the street up to15 date. So the Casino Unit will be16 primarily staffed with overtime. So17 there's $3 million right there.18 As the Commissioner also19 pointed out, there is a three percent20 salary increase and an additional one21 percent increase in stress in the last22 fiscal year for the FOP award. So that23 will account for another $1.1 million24 right there.25 15 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Going into the summertime,2 looking at potential increases in3 staffing needs on the weekends and for4 other special events, we figure in a5 couple million dollars there. So it6 basically is for overtime for addressing7 crime problems in addition to the Casino8 Unit and the raise.9
How10 many police are assigned to the casino11 detail?12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:13 Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross.14 We actually have about 1215 police officers that rotate in and out of16 the casino, and right now it's actually17 working out very well, according to the18 casino personnel.19
Thank20 you.21 Commissioner, would it be more22 cost effective if you used the additional23 overtime funds to hire new officers?24 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I25 16 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 mean, ultimately I would leave that up to2 our finance people for the actual3 figures, but with overtime, you do have4 to take into account that you're not5 paying for benefits and other types of6 costs, uniforms and the like, when you're7 dealing with overtime versus brand new8 hires. But certainly we have9 representatives here from Finance if10 you'd like to get into more detail about11 the comparison between the two.12
I13 will ask that question before the end of14 the hearing, because we have other15 Councilmembers that would like to be16 recognized.17 What do you estimate your18 court-related overtime will be in Fiscal19 2012?20 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: We don't21 specifically break it out by court,22 although that's a huge amount of the23 overtime expenditure. But let me just24 say this: With the new procedure put in25 17 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 place by our District Attorney, the Zone2 Courts, we do anticipate that that's3 going to have a positive impact on our4 court overtime in the future. So far,5 it's working well. We also, through our6 management overtime -- Overtime7 Management Unit, Inspector Flacco, we8 check as subpoenas come in to see whether9 or not the DA really needs that many10 police officers for a particular case,11 and we're really trying to tighten up the12 court overtime, because that's a13 considerable amount of our overtime14 expenditure, is in court.15 So we'll never get it down to16 zero, obviously, but we certainly want to17 make sure that we have no waste in that18 area. We can tell you what we've spent19 historically in court, although the funds20 themselves aren't really broken out that21 way, and I'll let Deputy Gaittens address22 that.23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:24 Yes. For several years, we were spending25 18 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 in excess of $20 million for court. As2 the Commissioner said, we started an3 initiative to try and really reduce our4 court overtime and the other associated5 overtime. From Fiscal '08 to '09, we6 reduced net overtime by almost $87 million. From '09 to '10 was another 7.48 million reduction, and from '10 to '11,9 we anticipate 3.9 reductions, for a total10 of $19.4 million in the reduction.11 Now, during that period of12 time, there were several wage increases13 to the Fraternal Order of Police. In '0814 there was a four percent increase. In15 '09 two percent in the beginning of the16 fiscal year, two percent salary increase17 in January and a one percent longevity.18 Then in Fiscal '10, there was no19 increase. Fiscal '11, three percent20 salary increase and one percent stress21 increase. And in Fiscal '12, there will22 be a three percent salary increase. So23 we're looking at 16 percent increase in24 our Class 100 costs.25 19 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Now, during that time, we've2 had to absorb those costs into our3 budget, but we've targeted the hours,4 because sometimes when you're talking5 about decreasing overtime, it's better to6 talk about hours than the dollar amounts.7 In Fiscal '08, we spent 1.88 million hours in overtime; '09,9 1,677,000; and in '10, 1,000,461. So the10 hours have decreased significantly.11 Looking at the decrease from '08 to '10,12 we are down 342,598 hours, and as the13 Commissioner said, Inspector Flacco has14 done an outstanding job with his people,15 very closely monitoring all aspects of16 the overtime.17
Thank18 you.19 Commissioner, you are20 requesting $19 million in uniform IOD21 heart and lung payments for Fiscal 2012.22 This represents an increase of $2.323 million over your Fiscal 2011 estimate.24 Can you explain why these additional25 20 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 funds are needed and what steps the City2 is taking to reduce these costs?3 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:4 Yes, ma'am. As you're aware, heart and5 lung has been very problematic for us for6 several years now. We have actually7 reached a high at one point. August 30th8 of this past year, there were 3309 officers IOD. That means not working at10 all, average during per day. So very11 significant number there.12 We have been working for the13 past several months with the Fraternal14 Order of Police working together to try15 and knock that number down. And after16 the first series of meetings, we reduced17 it from 330 down to 275. From there, it18 went down to 260, and as of our last19 meeting March 21st, it was down to 258.20 We hope to continue -- we are going to21 continue to meet with the FOP, and we22 hope we can drive that number down23 significantly from there. But as you24 said, the budget was laid out to reflect25 21 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the possibility that we were still going2 to be up around the 320 IOD range. So3 it's a significant cost factor.4 From the legislative angle, we5 do have Lieutenant Fran Healy working6 with the City Administration to see what7 we can do. One of the aspects that's8 problematic under heart and lung is,9 there is no definition on what a10 temporary injury is. With the Regulation11 32, if you get to three years, then it's12 pretty much you've run your course.13 Under heart and lung, we have one officer14 that was five years and four months,15 another officer is four years and seven16 months. But in other jurisdictions17 outside of Philadelphia, there are some18 officers that have been on nine, ten, 1119 years heart and lung.20 So one of the things that we21 would like to see is some definition of22 the term "temporary" in the heart and23 lung, although that does create other24 issues. Then if somebody is no longer25 22 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 temporary, they're permanent and now2 you're talking about a disability3 pension. So there are many issues to be4 considered here.5 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: And if I6 can just add one thing. I want to just7 again mention the cooperation we've had8 from the FOP in trying to bring these9 numbers down. They have been very10 receptive to sitting down with us and11 talking about these individual cases and12 helping us get people back to work, and I13 have no reason to believe that will not14 continue into the future, and that will15 be very helpful. Also, some of that cost16 reflects the increase in salary that took17 place as a result of the last contract.18 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:19 Commissioner, I believe we have 6,46920 police officers?21 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Our22 budget strength is 6,624. With the COPS23 grant is 6,674, and as of today, 6,476.24 Yes, ma'am. One hundred and fifty-five25 23 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 in Aviation, but that's not carried in2 our regular budget.3
On4 average, how many uniform personnel do5 you have available for active duty each6 day?7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, it8 depends on the tour of duty and also if9 you're talking about full-duty status10 versus the limited and restricted-duty11 status, which we can give you. The heart12 and lung, as Deputy Commissioner Gaittens13 mentioned before, is 258, limited duty is14 84, and restricted duty is 91.15 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:16 And in addition to that, on the average17 day, 147 sworn are off sick, 362 --18
I'm19 sorry. You're going much too quickly.20 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:21 I'm sorry. On the average day, by 201022 statistics, an average of 147 officers23 are off sick, 362 are off on vacation, 2324 are off on other types of leave. So we25 24 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 would be taking the 258 injured on duty,2 plus the other forms of absence, 532. So3 we're talking about 790.4
And5 how many would you say are on limited6 duty?7 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:8 Limited duty, 84.9
Thank10 you very much.11 The Chair recognizes Councilman12 Greenlee.13
Thank14 you, Madam President.15 Good morning, everyone.16 (Good morning.)17 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:18 Commissioner, in your testimony you talk19 about the new shift, the 8:00 p.m. to20 4:00 a.m. shift in select districts. Can21 you tell us what those districts are?22 Have you figured that out?23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:24 Basically they're the busiest districts25 25 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we have, the targeted districts. We have2 obviously everything in Southwest3 Philadelphia pretty much, the 16th, 18th,4 19th and the 12th, the 22nd District.5 You also have the 35th, the 14th and the6 39th and 24, 25 and the 1st -- I mean,7 the 3rd District down in South Philly.8
So a lot9 of them, okay. Now, you say about the10 additional personnel from the specialized11 units into patrol units. Are they some12 of the same areas you're talking about13 for the spring and summer?14 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS: Yes,15 Councilman, they are. Pretty much we try16 to keep them in some of our busiest17 areas, and right now, as the Commissioner18 may have indicated, we started that a19 little earlier. We started that in April20 of this year instead of just the summer21 deployment to augment our forces out22 there.23
Okay.24 Also in the testimony you talk about25 26 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Temple University's Criminal Justice2 Department working on studies and3 particularly the effectiveness of foot4 patrols. What came out of that?5 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:6 Well, as you may recall, we started that7 project initially in 2009 where Temple8 came on board after the fact and did a9 little kind of a cursory study. We10 decided in the forefront to do the same11 thing in 2010 where we brought Temple on12 board to measure it from the outset to13 help us determine what some of the14 problem corners were, and what we did15 was, as a result of this project, we were16 able to determine that comparing it to17 some of the comparison areas -- a lot of18 technical stuff that goes into doing19 this -- but it's a 22 percent reduction20 in violent crime that came from that, as21 well as reductions in property crime,22 increases in narcotics arrests, as well23 as some of the intangible things that24 come out of it. We did officer surveys25 27 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to kind of glean from them exactly what2 we believe or what they believe was3 essential in terms of going forward. We4 also got some very positive feedback from5 some community folks, who it was very6 refreshing to see that when we had to7 pull some of them back, they were8 actually asked for by name, some of the9 foot beat officers. So that just goes to10 show how they touched a lot of the people11 in the community. So we're very positive12 about that.13
I know14 the community particularly feels very15 strongly about foot patrols --16 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:17 That's correct.18
-- and19 their effectiveness.20 Just one more question on the21 overtime issue. Does a lot of that22 reduction have to do with court time or23 are there other places that particularly24 have --25 28 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: It's a2 combination, court and certainly watching3 the just day-to-day expenditure of4 overtime. We meet every other week. On5 Fridays after our morning briefing,6 Inspector Flacco comes in, and he can7 break it down to us in terms of where we8 are with the spending in various units9 within the Department.10 Now, occasionally, we'll have11 something like a flash mob incident from12 just a week ago, two weeks ago. That's13 unanticipated, where you have to hold14 people over or bring people in early,15 that sort of thing. But we even track16 that, so that when we're having this17 conversation now or several months from18 now, we can point specifically to the19 incident that caused the spike on a20 particular date. So it's really a21 combination of watching all different22 aspects of overtime.23
Now,24 speaking of flash mob, I know you've25 29 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 talked about that issue before here. How2 do you feel -- I know you do a lot of3 monitoring. You feel you have that as4 much under control as you can? I know5 you never know when something is going to6 happen.7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: It's a8 day-to-day battle, but we've been very9 fortunate. We've had parents and we've10 had youngsters that have actually let us11 know that there was something going on.12 It's hard -- you can't monitor all these13 social networks constantly, but14 fortunately, we have people that have15 stepped up to let us know that there's16 something going on that's going to cause17 us problems, and that's been very, very18 helpful to get a jump on it. It doesn't19 mean it will happen every time, but at20 least it has happened on several21 occasions, and that's good.22
Great.23 Actually, one more. The mounted patrol,24 is that about the same as you've had25 30 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 before?2 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.3 Well, the mounted patrol, as you know,4 we're in the process of re-establishing5 the Mounted Unit. We have five mounts6 right now. We have a group of officers7 that are getting refresher training this8 week. A group went last week. We're9 working with the Police Foundation.10 They're spearheading a fundraising drive11 to get us off the ground to build the12 stables and to support the first two13 years of funding for the Mounted Unit.14 So we're very optimistic that15 we'll be able to get the unit fully up16 and operational within the next couple of17 years, but by this fall, we actually18 should have a fair number of mounts out19 on the street.20
Okay.21 Great. Thank you.22 Thank you, Madam President.23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:24 You're welcome.25 31 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 The Chair recognizes Councilman2 Jones.3
Thank you,4 Madam President.5 Good morning.6 (Good morning.)7
I want to8 publicly recognize, this is the year of9 recognition of progress when I think it10 is warranted, because we have no problems11 citing things that we think need12 improvement. But I want to thank you and13 the brass and management of the Police14 Department for swiftly dealing with the15 issue of police brutality. It might be16 almost counterintuitive for a17 Commissioner to run into the fray and18 deal with an issue head on, but whether19 it was at churches, whether it was at20 barber shop tours, which we went on with21 you, whether it was at the hearing that22 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller put forth23 on the issue, you and the management of24 the Police Department were all a part of25 32 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 trying to create corrective actions and2 solutions and lessons learned, and some3 of those things have resulted in proposed4 legislation. Some of those realizations5 have resulted in corrective actions6 towards officers, where warranted, and I7 think has begun to restore some of the8 confidence that the police are in the9 community and there to help the10 citizenry. So I thank you for that. 12 I want to segue a bit into13 school violence. I read in the newspaper14 that the Mayor and you are considering15 placing armed police officers in some of16 our schools. In the 4th District, we17 have been, along with the 3rd District,18 which is Councilwoman Blackwell's19 district, we've been experiencing an20 uptick in juvenile violent activities and21 occurrences. Now, compared to when I was22 a youngster at Overbrook, we had armed23 police officers at Overbrook at that24 time, and Officer Starks -- I remember25 33 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 him -- who is now retired, he was the2 Clint Eastwood of our school. 8 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,9 thank you, Councilman. This is a very10 important issue, and I understand the11 controversy, if you will, surrounding12 having police officers formally assigned13 to the schools. Ultimately this will be14 a decision that will be made, the Mayor15 working with Superintendent Ackerman and16 others, to decide whether or not this is17 appropriate. I personally feel that the18 time has come for this to occur. 21 We do have police officers now22 that are assigned to some of our more23 problematic schools. Some are full time,24 although the majority are not, but some25 34 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 are full time and some move between2 schools. 8 I think what's important is9 that we carefully select the people who10 would be assigned to this duty. We do11 not need people who have an attitude of12 going in, locking up kids and all the13 kinds of things that would go along with14 that. Obviously if there's a serious15 crime or something committed, that's16 different. 19 We need people with the right20 attitude. 25 35 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 When you read that week-long2 series that appeared in the Inquirer, I3 think it did a lot to highlight the4 severity of the problem in our schools,5 and it's not going to get better on its6 own. We have to re-establish control and7 create a safe environment. 15 We're in the process of looking16 at what that would look like. 20 When I served in the District of21 Columbia, the Metropolitan Police22 Department was charged with the23 responsibility back in 2005 to take over24 security for the DC public schools that25 36 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 were in the same or similar situation we2 find ourselves here in Philadelphia, and3 it's worked out very, very well. 6 So this isn't something that7 can be done in isolation. 16
I welcome17 your involvement in the stabilization of18 the educational environment. The jury is19 still out about armed police officers20 inside the school. I think that a21 combination of responses might be22 something that you participate in. One23 of them is obviously working with the24 principals and teachers, but I would also25 37 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 encourage more involvement from the2 parents and from the community.3 I had an opportunity to go down4 in Councilman Clarke's district, and5 Everett Gillison was down there with us,6 and his district, like my district and7 like many other districts around the8 City, is going through a community9 cultural issue, and I don't know if we10 can police our way out of it. I think11 stabilizing the situation from time to12 time is necessary, but there needs to be13 an exit strategy as opposed to an14 occupying force, that we need to occupy15 the schools with a positive influence.16 And I don't know how that happens. I17 don't have the answer to it today, but I18 am very concerned that some of our19 schools have been designed by the same20 architects that have designed prisons.21 Some of our schools because of the22 violence that comes from the community --23 we're not acting like it was parachuted24 down by martians. There is a culture of25 38 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 where you have to go through metal2 detectors. I mean, this is the kind of3 thing that I'm very, very, very concerned4 about and look to you and look to our own5 resources within the community to try to6 manage our way out of.7 So we welcome the help to8 stabilize it, but I don't know -- it's9 like taking over a country. I don't know10 if we're going to be there forever and11 want us to gain control of the schools12 and then figure a -- "sustainable" is the13 word Deputy Mayor Gillison likes to14 use -- a sustainable way to transition to15 some kind of community management.16 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,17 just let me say again that I realize that18 we have to do this in partnership with19 others and there has to be a strong20 collaboration in order for this to work,21 but the reality is is that the schools22 have been taken over in many cases. Not23 all schools. Many of our schools run24 just fine and don't need this kind of25 39 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 intervention, but there are some schools2 that are right now being run by gang3 members and others that would do harm to4 other children, assault staff and so5 forth, and that is simply unacceptable,6 period, and we need to be in a position7 to take action in those instances where8 it's necessary. And it's not one size9 fits all. Not every school is in need of10 that, but there are some that are. And11 we need to do so in collaboration. And12 then down the road once things are13 stabilized, then obviously we'd have that14 discussion around any adjustments that15 need to be made in security. I'm16 certainly not proposing that this be a17 permanent thing, because I'd like to18 think it works and you don't need it19 anymore, so then we can go about doing20 something else.21
Well, in the22 case of the 4th District -- and I can't23 speak for any other district -- I'd like24 to have a collaborative effort that25 40 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 involves the community, involves2 parent-teachers associations. So as we3 walk this path, that people are eyes wide4 open and understand the consequences,5 because the unintended consequences are6 the ones that it is better to explain in7 the front end than have to explain over a8 bad occurrence.9 So if we could work together10 with our offices and parent-teachers11 associations that are already out there12 to figure out which schools, to figure13 out what the threshold of violence is or14 lack of control in the school, that we15 kind of all work together to address it,16 I think that at the end of the day, it17 will be the kind of decision that we18 collectively make that we can all stand19 behind as we go forward.20 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank21 you, sir, and certainly I look forward to22 working along with you and others as we23 begin to try to figure out what we need24 to do to make our schools safer for our25 41 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 kids.2 One final thought on this.3 When you talk about armed police officers4 in schools and so forth, I tend to think5 of the Police Athletic League, where6 we've got 33 armed police officers around7 the City working in locations with young8 people on a daily basis and making a huge9 difference, and they aren't seen as just10 cops. They're role models, they're11 mentors, they're a positive influence12 with our children, and I would like to13 think that the same thing can be14 accomplished if we do get involved more15 deeply in security for the schools.16
Appreciate17 it.18 Segueing, my last question is,19 we're doing an Aging in a New Age20 conference in conjunction with WHYY to21 talk about the paradigm of aging in22 Philadelphia and graying in Philadelphia,23 and we're asking each department to kind24 of take a look at, with fresh eyes, the25 42 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 concept of aging, and in your case with2 the law enforcement and the Police3 Department, crimes against seniors and4 how they are evolving with the5 possibility of naturally occurring aging6 communities and how we address that, also7 from everything from what happens by way8 of home invasions and are they on a tick9 up. I had distress of reading about home10 invasions and particularly targeted11 against seniors to see if there is a12 pattern with that. Also some softer13 crimes, but nonetheless harmful, that14 Councilman Greenlee has addressed in many15 ways, which is deeds and fraudulent16 transference of deeds. We've heard17 nightmare stories in these Chambers about18 people walking on hospital wards, looking19 at people that are ill and incapacitated20 and actually trying to falsely transfer21 deeds.22 So we want -- we would ask you23 and your department to participate in24 that, and what we hope to do is come out25 43 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 of that with a white paper, an action2 plan, whether it is to deal with things3 administratively or addressing them4 through loopholes in laws that can be5 helpful and particularly for this6 vulnerable population.7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,8 thank you, sir, and we certainly will9 participate, and as one of those10 individuals aging in Philadelphia myself,11 I look forward to it. Thank you.12
Thank you,13 Madam President.14 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:15 You're welcome.16 The Chair recognizes Councilman17 Green.18
Thank you,19 Madam Chair. For once I get to say, I20 hope I get that Curtis Jones type time21 for questioning.22 So good morning.23 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Good24 morning.25 44 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Not at all.4 Not at all. Just asking for equal5 treatment with Councilman Jones.6 I'm just curious -- this is not7 really related to any of the questions8 that I have for you, but on April 28th,9 we'll be having hearings with LEHB, which10 is the Law Enforcement Health Benefits11 group that runs the health insurance for12 sworn officers, I think only sworn13 officers. I don't think it includes14 civilians, but I could be wrong about15 that. At any rate, it is a model of16 efficiency in terms of the way health17 insurance is run in the City of18 Philadelphia. It appears to me to be the19 best model that we have in the City,20 based on the work we've done, in terms of21 how much they're able to actually save22 the City as a consequence of going back23 and challenging what the insurers or24 doctors or hospitals have charged us.25 45 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Are all of you as sworn2 officers, do you deal through LEHB or are3 you in the exempt plan?4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I'm in5 the exempt plan, but I believe the others6 are all in the same sworn plan.7
Well, you're8 a sworn officer also, aren't you,9 Commissioner?10 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, but11 I --12
I recommend13 you look into LEHB, because the benefits14 are far greater with much lower15 deductibles and at about the same cost as16 the rest of City employees. So if I were17 a sworn officer and could take advantage18 of that, I can tell you I would.19 DEPUTY
Councilman23 Greenlee asked some questions about24 technology and foot patrols and other25 46 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 things, and I'm just wondering, are there2 specific metrics being used to measure3 the effectiveness of the approaches you4 noted like foot patrols, like some of the5 things that you guys have talked about at6 past budget hearings, offender-focused7 tactics, police/community problem-solving8 interventions? Do we have a comparison9 of where that is existing in another10 neighborhood where we don't do that but11 had similar background statistics?12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:13 Absolutely, Councilman. In fact, that14 was part of the measurement that was used15 in using like areas to determine the16 effectiveness of the foot patrols, as17 well as other SMART policing tactics that18 we use. So the Temple experiment19 actually required that we grid out a20 similar type area, whether it be two by21 two, three by three block areas, and we22 measure that so that we can get an23 accurate account and reflection of how24 successful it would be. Obviously it25 47 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 would be futile if we measured a busy2 area versus an area that is less busy.3 So that's one of the criteria that was4 used.5 And so we used X amount of6 comparison groups to make that7 determination, but we didn't stop there.8 We also -- you're familiar with our9 CompStat process and we call it crime10 briefing. We grid out those particular11 foot beat areas as well, not only to12 measure for the City and the commanders13 in question in terms of how successful it14 would be, but it was also nice to take it15 the next step where we brought a couple16 of those foot beat officers down and17 showed them their particular grid that18 they walked, and it was very satisfying19 for some of those foot beat officers to20 see, particularly in particular21 timeframes, how effective they were22 being.23 So, I mean, we used a myriad of24 measurements to actually determine how25 48 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 successful we would be, most of it2 dealing with the SMART policing concept3 that you're alluding to.4
Right. So5 specifically, though, I'm sort of6 wondering -- obviously we can see the7 impact in reduction on crime, but I'm8 also wondering about outcomes in terms of9 resources other than the foot patrol10 officer that otherwise don't have to go11 in to that area in terms of saving12 resources for other areas where13 there's --14 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:15 Absolutely.16
Have you17 measured that? Have you measured the18 sort of like this year we had to put this19 many resources into a specific area, like20 two years ago, last year we only had to21 send in patrol cars for crimes 300 times22 versus 3,000 times -- I'm sure it's not23 that dramatic -- and so those resources24 were available to deploy other places in25 49 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the City, saving, or we had -- what kind2 of savings are available or what kind of3 officer man hours we essential freed up4 for the rest of the City because of the5 foot patrols there? In other words, in6 terms of measuring a return on investment7 of focusing resources like that so that8 we can say, You know what, this makes9 tremendous amount of sense, we can show a10 return for each foot patrolman we put out11 there in terms of the resources available12 to other areas of the City essentially13 without increasing costs or even with a14 slight increase in sworn officers that15 were responding to other calls more16 quickly, et cetera, et cetera. I mean,17 if you haven't done that kind of18 analysis, I'd be very interested in you19 sort of looking at that for next year's20 budget so that we can really talk about21 let's invest in more of this so that we22 have resources available for the other23 areas of the City type analysis.24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS: I25 50 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 mean, it's a great question, Councilman,2 and in terms of exact manpower hours, I3 can't give you a number for that, and4 it's something that warrants study in the5 future, but I will tell you anecdotally6 that clearly when we grid out a7 particular area and those officers are8 there for an extended period of time,9 particularly when they're there for one10 or two shifts and they have counter11 officers that walk the same beat, you12 know, clearly the community and some of13 the people who are less desirable really14 get an understanding that these officers15 are going to be here, and not only are16 they going to be here, they're going to17 get to know who the, quote/unquote,18 players are, who the good people are,19 which is Commissioner Ramsey's edict, and20 obviously that's very, very important.21 But also we also always talk about how22 we're able to offset the resources, what23 you alluded to previously, in terms of24 our citywide resources as well as some of25 51 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 our tactical resources in the district.2 I don't have the actual3 manpower numbers for you, but I can tell4 you that when those officers are there5 for a significant amount of time, that it6 clearly makes a difference.7
Yeah. I8 understand the anecdotal. Just looking9 forward I wonder if we could actually10 study it.11 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yeah. I12 think, one, that's a great question, and,13 yes, we will, because when you have the14 foot patrol officers, for an example, to15 answer calls, you don't have to use your16 motorized patrol units to the same17 extent. They can do other things. Units18 that are mission-oriented, such as19 Highway Patrol and Strike Force, we don't20 have to use them as much in a given area.21 So we save on that. They can do other22 things.23 You raised the right -- you're24 asking the right questions, and these are25 52 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the kinds of things that I think will2 have some very positive results when we3 begin to show it.4 The one intangible, though,5 that's going to be a little more6 difficult to measure, although we could7 even do this through surveys, the citizen8 attitude towards the police in those9 target areas, because they do get to know10 the officers. And all of our new11 recruits, by the way, you mentioned12 earlier, Madam President, the 120, they13 all start on foot patrol. Every police14 officer that comes to us starts on foot15 patrol. Don't even think about getting a16 car for that first year or so. I want17 them out there on foot. I want them to18 know the community. I want them out19 there doing just good old-fashioned20 police work that involves making positive21 contact with the community.22 I think we created a whole23 generation of cops that got in cars,24 rolled up windows and just did 30 miles25 53 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 an hour up and down streets and never got2 to know the people that they're serving,3 and that's just flat-out wrong. So the4 way to do it is by foot patrol, and you5 get a lot of side benefits as a result of6 that. And we'll take and peel back the7 layers of the onion, Councilman, and8 really take a look and see, because I9 think you raised some interesting points,10 that we need to actually get credit for11 it, quite frankly, because if it's good12 stuff happening, we're kind of13 shortchanging ourselves when we don't14 look at it and show you clearly the15 benefits.16
Thank you.17 Along those or sort of similar lines, I18 think it was two years ago we talked19 about Oklahoma City and I think it's20 Alameda, California and other places21 where the officers basically have22 handheld devices, can fill out all their23 reports, without going back to the24 station, on a secure network that is25 54 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 controlled by the Police Department or2 controlled by the particular city, and3 studies have demonstrated that without4 officers having to go back and forth into5 the district, it has increased police6 presence by 20 to 24 percent in cities7 that have done that.8 Can you talk about our plans to9 roll that out in the City of Philadelphia10 and whether or not you've had a chance to11 talk to any of the chiefs in other12 jurisdictions that have successfully13 implemented this?14 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.15 I have been able to speak to other chiefs16 from jurisdictions that have this kind of17 technology. They tend to be the smaller18 or medium size, but it can be done in a19 big jurisdiction, too.20 One of the things that has to21 happen is, one, our wireless network has22 to be shored up to a point where it could23 handle the volume, because we are such a24 large agency. There's also some25 55 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 encryption issues that are being2 addressed right now, because we have to3 be SEGUS compliant to meet the state4 standards of being able to transmit data5 wirelessly but in an encrypted6 environment, and we are working on all7 those kinds of things now.8 I'm a huge believer in9 technology. The more we have, the10 better. We're now working with Traffic11 Court to be able to print our moving12 violations electronically. We're getting13 the license plate readers so that we can14 scan for hot cars and things of that15 nature. I would like to see a records16 management system where an officer takes17 the report, wirelessly transmit it to a18 supervisor for review and then it goes19 into the central database. All those20 things are things that we are working on.21 And in addition to that, as an22 aside, I'm the President of Major City23 Police Chiefs, and we've taken a very24 strong stand with the FCC around getting25 56 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 bandwidth set aside for law enforcement2 across this country in the 700 megahertz3 range. That will give us the bandwidth4 we need to be able to do a lot of things5 that need to happen. The President has6 signed off on it. I think in his budget7 $4 billion has been set aside to build8 out the infrastructure.9 All those kinds of things are10 going to make a difference for police11 across the country, because we didn't12 even talk about streaming video and all13 the other things that can happen as a14 result of these advances in technology,15 which will save on man hours, efficiency.16 I mean, it's just incredible what it will17 do once it's up and fully operational.18
And really19 not -- hopefully it will just make the20 police more effective and more responsive21 rather than -- that's the kind of22 efficiency we're looking for, is23 productivity increases so that we can24 respond more quickly when people need25 57 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 police officers. And do you have any2 kind of estimate as to once we roll out3 the wireless network, you do allow people4 to file reports electronically from the5 street? I understand the necessary6 supervisor step, but do you have any7 estimate of how much it can increase8 police man hours on the street?9 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I don't10 have anything right now, but that's one11 of the things that we would have to take12 a look at, how long it normally takes for13 an officer to complete a report, how long14 it would take if you've got an arrest15 situation. I know we do video16 arraignments now. That has saved a17 tremendous amount. We don't have to take18 people down any longer. But that's all19 things that we'd have to take a look at,20 where are we now, you process, map it.21 We're doing it now on a manual system,22 but then where will we get the23 efficiencies and what used to take maybe24 an hour takes a half an hour, or25 58 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whatever, it took two hours, could now2 take one hour. We've not really figured3 all that out yet.4
Well, to the5 extent you're looking for it -- and I6 know probably we'll have to come back to7 Council for some of the funding for stuff8 like that. To the extent you can9 estimate some measurable productivity10 increase in terms of man hours on the11 street, I think that would allow me to12 help you advocate for this funding, which13 I want to do.14 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Will do,15 sir.16
Also, I'd17 like to commend you and your18 Communications Director for what I read19 about on Technically Philly a few months20 ago, your increased focus on technology,21 including tip gathering and Google22 calendars to provide information about23 community meetings and your new website,24 and I just wanted to give you the25 59 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 opportunity to talk about that, what kind2 of impact do you think it's had on3 policing, has it led to tips that you4 wouldn't have otherwise gotten.5 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.6 We've actually -- our website,7 phillypolice.com, we have gotten some8 tips. We started something maybe I think9 it's three weeks ago now called Video10 Villains where it's very common now when11 you watch the news, you see the video of12 somebody committing a robbery or an13 assault or what-have-you. We're getting14 that out now in a more timely fashion,15 and certainly it's available on our16 website for people to review. It's not17 based on the seriousness of the crime.18 It's actually based right now on clarity19 of the video, because we still recover a20 lot of videos that the clarity is very21 poor and you really can't make anything22 out. But a lot of it now is very, very23 good. So now you can not only look at24 the current ones, but you can go back25 60 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 historically and look at some of the2 other videos that we've got.3 We also are in the process of4 putting together photographs of people5 wanted for crimes like homicide, rape and6 so forth, and we're going to be showing7 that actually up on State Road in the8 Penitentiary. I mean, a lot of these9 guys know the other guys that are out10 here doing wrong, and, again, working11 through the District Attorney, should12 they provide valuable information, it may13 impact the case that they have. So we're14 using technology that way as well.15 We started something with our16 roll calls where now we've got the flat17 screen TV and a PC hooked up, so it's18 specific to that district and their19 particular people that are wanted for20 various crimes, and that's constantly21 being scrolled through during roll calls22 to be able to do it. We put good news23 stories out. We put -- we're getting24 into Facebook now. We have a Facebook25 61 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 page, Twitter. There's so many different2 sites now.3 You know, I'm kind of a 20th4 century guy. I still got one foot firmly5 planted in the 20th century and trying to6 get the other one in the 21st. So some7 of this stuff I don't understand, but8 Karima Zedan, who is sitting behind me9 here, and her staff have been10 instrumental in really pushing us out11 there, and if you visit our website, I12 think you'll like what you see.13
Yes. So in14 2008 and 2009 and I think again last15 year, we talked about special units, and16 generally you've been saying there are17 still too many special units and you're18 working to reduce the number of those to19 make more officers available for patrol.20 Can you tell us where that stands? Are21 you satisfied with the progress we've22 made there? Is there much more progress23 to make?24 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I don't25 62 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 know if there's a lot more to make. I2 think the units we have now are units3 that all obviously fill a very important4 function, but what we have done is, I've5 drawn from those special units for our6 spring/summer crime-fighting efforts,7 beginning April 4th, I believe it was,8 was the first day where we had a group of9 officers from these units and detectives.10 They're going to be assigned to uniform11 patrol and they're assigned to detective12 divisions for a 90-day period. The end13 of that 90 days they come back, and the14 other half of the unit goes out to do the15 same thing, so that we can bolster our16 presence out on the street.17 We still need Highway Patrol,18 Traffic Division, Strike Force,19 Narcotics. I mean, we have a lot of20 issues here we need to address. Those21 with redundant missions are the ones that22 I was referring to before, and those we23 did do away with or absorb elsewhere. So24 I'm pretty comfortable with that, but25 63 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 right now we're just trying to do what we2 can with what we have and use the3 specialized people to help bolster4 uniform patrol.5
Thank you.6 Mr. Chair, I have additional7 questions, but I'll yield at this time8 and come back. Thank you.9
Thank you,10 Councilman.11 Councilman Clarke is actually12 next. It has nothing to do with him13 sitting up here as opposed to in his14 seat. He just happens to be in the15 ranking.16 Good morning.17 (Good morning.)18
I just had19 a couple of quick questions, one of them20 a followup. On the casino district, I21 was wondering if you can give me the22 statistics of the various tiers of23 crimes, primarily car break-ins, the24 things that we heard during the course of25 64 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the casino debate prior to the opening of2 the casino and the most up-to-date3 statistics. And if you don't have them4 now, I'll understand, but I'd like to be5 able to show --6
On your11 question, I think I understood him to say12 that there was $3 million towards that13 specific endeavor and that was for 1214 officers, which in my Council math says15 250 per officer, and if you could find16 out if I was right or off base with that.17 Thank you.18
That's an19 addendum to the question.20 Basically, the financial21 implications that the Councilman just22 brought up, and I did hear you reference23 that, to some degree, but what I'd like24 to know -- if you have it now, that's25 65 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 fine, and if you can get it to me --2 basically prior to casino opening, post3 casino opening, what those numbers are.4 Just visually I don't see a significant5 amount of change other than a parking lot6 full of cars, but I really don't see7 those impacts and the crime and some of8 the other statistics.9 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Sure. We10 can get to you the actual numbers of11 crimes committed in and around the casino12 itself. We've not seen a significant13 spike. There have been some car14 break-ins. There have been some15 robberies that have taken place that16 obviously made the paper with people who17 had won and then were later robbed. But18 it actually has not been as bad as we19 thought it would be initially. So we've20 been able to stay on top of it.21 As far as the $3 million go,22 there are a detail of 12 people that we23 use, but these aren't the same people.24 We rotate people in and out, because25 66 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 obviously you got days off, you got other2 considerations. Sometimes we have to3 augment with additional people where4 we've had periods of time where the5 Traffic Unit has had to come in for6 traffic control issues, although that,7 again, because of where it's located, we8 have not had the kind of traffic problems9 we originally had anticipated. But10 that's the money set aside.11 With this being as new as it12 is, we weren't quite sure exactly what we13 would need in terms of overtime. The14 goal is not to spend all the money. The15 goal is to spend what we need to spend16 and only what we need to spend, and I17 think in future years, we can have a more18 realistic projection in terms of overtime19 that would be used specifically for that20 purpose. But I think everybody was21 anticipating a lot more activity and a22 lot more issues and problems around the23 casinos when they first opened up, but so24 far, we have a very good working25 67 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 relationship with the people from the2 casino itself, the community and others.3 And we've had some issues, but it really4 has not been the like huge spike.5 Rich, you want to add anything?6 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS: No.7 Councilman, in fact, we've got some8 feedback from residents in the 26th9 District over there that they were10 pleasantly surprised. I mean, you know11 about that first day where it was very12 chaotic, where folks were parking just13 about anywhere, and we put an end to that14 legally, but for folks who parked15 illegally, they were ticketed, and I16 think the message was sent very quickly.17 We've had some minor incidents18 in and around the parking lot, most of19 which we were successful in solving and20 making apprehensions on right away. But21 from Mike Cram in that district, we've22 gotten a lot of positive feedback about23 the policing in and around the area. I24 had an extensive conversation with the25 68 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 head of security there, our former Chief2 Inspector, Tony DiLacqua, and he tells me3 that his executives there are more than4 happy with the Philadelphia Police5 Department and their response to issues6 there.7
Thank you.8 Commissioner.9 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I just10 want to add one quick thing that Deputy11 Gaittens just brought to my attention12 while we were sitting here apparently.13 Dr. Radcliffe from Temple University is14 watching the broadcast and stated that15 he's in the process now of looking at16 crime around the casinos and the impact17 that it's had. So it would be something18 coming out, which is even better than us19 looking at it, from an independent third20 party taking a look and looking at the21 issues. I didn't know that, but that's22 good.23
Good. All24 right. Thank you. As soon as we can get25 69 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 those statistics, the better. I've been2 in a couple of meetings recently, and3 actually one of the leading opponents of4 the casinos acknowledged privately that5 it did not turn out the way he had6 anticipated as it related to problems for7 the surrounding community.8 Second thing, the PSAs. First,9 I want to commend you on the advent of10 the PSAs within I know in my district, in11 the Hartranft community area, and it's12 been extremely successful. I think it's13 actually been even more successful than14 anticipated, because we were fortunate15 enough to have Officer Tyshaan Williams,16 who has been great. I found that in17 spite of the fact that as reported, there18 is a significant number of individuals,19 government workers, involved. We20 actually had an appreciation dinner the21 other night that Tyshaan put together for22 the municipal workers and the community,23 and it turned out well and the people are24 really working together over there.25 70 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 My question is that given the2 success of that particular model -- and I3 know there's discussions about expanding4 the process -- are we looking at the --5 and, again, this is a somewhat detailed6 question. Are we looking at the7 financial impact as it relates to that8 targeted area, the lessening of the9 number of calls; i.e., 9-1-1, other10 issues related to municipal functions?11 Because just visually I see a significant12 drop on the problem. At least the13 perception is that there's a reduction14 because of the great proactive work15 that's being done over there, and if16 that's factual, will we be looking at17 accelerating the pace of that expansion18 of that particular program?19 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.20 There are two things. PSAs, which stands21 for Police Service Areas, has already22 expanded citywide. That is a citywide23 project. Officer Williams was actually24 in a meeting -- every other week, we have25 71 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 a meeting with the various divisions2 around the Police Service Area3 implementation. There are crime-fighting4 strategies, there are problem-solving5 plans and the like, and Officer Williams6 was at the last meeting and we talked7 extensively about -- I mean, I wish I8 could clone him. I mean, he's that good.9
He's great.10 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: He is11 absolutely fantastic. But the whole idea12 is to have lieutenant, sergeant and X13 number of officers assigned on a regular14 basis to a Police Service Area, where15 they get to know the community, get to16 know people who are there to help them,17 people who are out here causing harm, all18 the various nuances of that particular19 community. Officer Williams is an20 outstanding example of that.21 We're already doing that22 citywide, and we've been monitoring. I23 think you're referring to Philly Rising,24 which is the effort that's underway25 72 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 through the Managing Director's Office2 that coordinates all the City resources,3 not just Police.4
Correct.5 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: But also6 Mental Health, L&I, Streets, all of them7 working together to correct some of the8 conditions that actually help support9 crime in the sense of creating an10 environment that's conducive to certain11 kinds of criminal activity.12 We've got a couple pilots going13 now. I don't know if the Deputy Mayor14 wants to speak more to that particular15 issue or not, but that is what's being16 rolled out and what's being expanded, and17 the goal is to make it a citywide effort.18 But that is going to be measured. We are19 going to be looking at 3-1-1 calls,20 police calls that come in, all kinds of21 things to see are we really having an22 impact and are we really making a23 difference in those communities that have24 been impacted by the Philly Rising25 73 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 program.2 DEPUTY
Thank3 you, Councilman. Everett Gillison,4 Deputy Mayor for Public Safety.5 The Philly Rising matter, just6 as the Commissioner has said and I think7 what you're talking about, we have four8 models now that we have up and running,9 four pilots. One, obviously we're10 continuing with the first one. That11 started over a year ago before we even12 called it Philly Rising, but we knew what13 we wanted to do and we went in to try to14 get the thing done and to prove the model15 worked. We've now expanded it. We're16 now in Councilman Jones' district in the17 4th, over in the 19th District. We are18 also in the 15th Police District out by19 Kensington and we are using downtown20 because of its unique problems. We're21 looking for trying to make sure our model22 of how we engage the community -- and23 however that's defined. In different24 areas of the City, the community is25 74 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 different. The downtown one is primarily2 a business district with some residential3 on the back side. But we're trying to4 make sure that the model works, that we5 can bring the City resources to bear on6 this issue in a sustainable way to solve7 the problem, and that's what we're trying8 to do.9 So, yes, we have it in those10 four pilot areas. It is our hope that11 once we continue to refine the model and12 to make sure that we have the right13 people always engaging the problem at the14 right time, that we will take it to other15 areas that are usually started by the16 Police making recommendations, then17 working with the community, where we're18 going to go, and also getting input from,19 quite frankly, Councilpeople, as we did20 with you when we first started to sit21 back and say, This is where we are going22 to go, this is how we're going to try and23 deal with additional issues that we have24 found and to make sure that we can25 75 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 continue moving this model forward.2
Okay.3 Yeah. The reason why I reference it as4 PSA, that's the way it started out.5 DEPUTY
That's6 correct.7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: No. It8 did, yes, sir.9 DEPUTY
Now10 we've actually -- we've got almost a year11 and we're almost into this now by 13, 14,12 almost 15 months, and it's Philly Rising13 and it's -- we're at the point now where14 we have routinized what we're doing and15 making sure that the model that we are16 bringing to bear on the problem and the17 area, the geographic area we're trying to18 target, that's what we're trying to deal19 with. So you have Philly Rising20 neighborhoods now that are sprouting up.21
We actually22 did this like 15, 16, it was called23 Partners for Progress and it was a24 similar approach. It was successful, ran25 76 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 out money. You know, so the story goes,2 but we just couldn't sustain it. So I3 guess I can talk to you later on about a4 target.5 The Mayor and myself were at a6 community meeting Saturday. It was a7 similar situation. It was a myriad of8 problems, public safety, all the other9 quality of life issues, and both he and I10 promised that we would come back and talk11 about it. So it would be good if we can12 look at that particular area.13 DEPUTY
I just16 imagine, because he showed me a card when17 I saw him later on that night with a list18 of issues.19 One last question.20 Commissioner, you may have -- I see you21 have your lawyer here, so this is22 somewhat of a legal question. In terms23 of your response to an arrest -- well,24 let me start out, in terms of laws, I25 77 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 know that the state constitution governs2 the laws as it relates to the Crimes Code3 in the State of Pennsylvania, and then we4 in the City of Philadelphia on occasion5 have decided that we were going to go6 outside of the constitutional7 Pennsylvania box and implement gun laws8 in particular. We have recently passed9 and the Mayor signed based on information10 from our people, the legal department,11 that this was within the constitutional12 bounds of the City, this whole Florida13 Loophole.14 As the Police Commissioner, are15 you bound by solely the Pennsylvania16 state constitution as it relates to laws17 or can you follow laws as it relates to18 the City of Philadelphia that we believe19 are within the bounds of the -- so bottom20 line is, somebody gets caught with a gun21 walking around the street. They don't22 have a Pennsylvania permit to carry. Our23 people say it's not legal for him to do24 that. Can you make an arrest, one,25 78 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 without the District Attorney? Because I2 know that the District Attorney has a3 different viewpoint.4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,5 let's see. I don't think I can take the6 Fifth at this hearing, so let me refer to7 not only my Deputy Mayor but also a8 lawyer.9 We could confiscate guns and we10 could put them on the property, but11 whether or not a person can actually be12 charged and we can go through the whole13 process is a different, more technical14 legal issue that I would rather have a15 lawyer.16 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:17 Councilman, again, Everett Gillison,18 Deputy Mayor for Public Safety.19 One of the things that I20 promised the City Solicitor I would not21 do, even though I am an attorney, is to22 act like an attorney at these matters.23 So I will defer on that, but I will say24 to you that some of the strategies and25 79 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 tactics in order to make sure that we get2 to where you and I believe we would like3 us to go necessarily doesn't always have4 to go through arrest, but can actually5 get us into the area by confiscation and6 by seeking and forcing return of property7 challenges and working with the other8 stakeholder in this matter, which is the9 District Attorney, to see exactly how he10 wants to proceed. Those issues are still11 being discussed, quite frankly, and we12 are going forward.13 The good thing is is that when14 someone is -- I haven't been informed by15 the Police Department we have found16 someone yet that is walking around with a17 gun that they only got as a result of the18 Florida Loophole, but we are proceeding19 along the path that we would end up20 confiscating the weapon and then forcing21 the return of property hearing, which22 would then allow us to be in court and23 then take the appropriate action as we go24 forward.25 80 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 So there's always different2 ways legally to skin the cat without3 having to get to that ultimate question,4 without getting to the District5 Attorney's Office and see exactly how he6 wants to do it, whether it's by arrest or7 whether we would just use this as a8 return of property challenge and go from9 there.10
And I don't11 want people to misunderstand. I'm not12 necessarily looking to have a person13 arrested, because there are various14 levels of charges. It could be a summary15 offense.16 DEPUTY
But there19 is actually a gentleman that called the20 District Attorney's Office and he had a21 Florida permit, and we all know him22 in-house, that said that he wants to be23 arrested because he's challenging the24 law. He then contacted the Police25 81 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Department, same individual, and says he2 has this gun, Florida permit, he's3 carrying the weapon, he wants us to4 arrest him because he's challenging the5 law. Then he contacted my office and6 told the folks that he's coming to my7 office and he wanted to have me arrested.8 DEPUTY
I would9 suggest that why don't we discuss our way10 of handling that after we get finished11 this. I'd be rather interested by12 putting it in the position I think we'd13 be in very solid grounds as we go14 forward.15
Okay.16 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: But let17 me just take time to just thank you and18 members of the Council for trying to deal19 with this issue of gun violence and come20 up with some reasonable, sensible gun21 laws. I really do applaud you for doing22 it. Irrespective of where the23 Commonwealth may stand, as a city I think24 we're making the right moves.25 82 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank you.2 Thank you, Commissioner.3 Thank you, Madam President.4
I wanted10 to follow up on a couple of questions11 that Councilman Clarke asked, and the12 first is the PSA. Is the PSA structure13 model accomplishing what you wanted it to14 accomplish?15 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes,16 ma'am. And the PSAs, or Police Service17 Areas, will continue. It's separate from18 Philly Rising, was very much a part of19 Philly Rising, but one is not in place of20 the other. They do work together.21 I'm very pleased, more than I22 thought I would be, to be honest with23 you. When we have these meetings, which24 occur approximately every other25 83 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Wednesday, where we bring a division in,2 I'm very encouraged with the percentage3 of time that officers are able to stay in4 their assigned areas, get calls for5 service. It's 70, 75, in some cases 806 percent, which is much higher than what I7 had originally thought it would be.8 There have been numerous9 examples of, during the course of these10 meetings, of building relationships where11 we initially started off with three or12 four people at a meeting and now we're at13 30, 40. Eventually we'll get even higher14 in terms of turnout. That's a positive.15 And, again, I think also the16 responsibility that's placed on the17 lieutenants and the officers is something18 that -- I mean, they're stepping up to19 it, the action plans. The community is20 stepping up with its part in terms of21 working and trying to help resolve some22 of the issues.23 So, yeah, it's working well.24 It's always going to be a work in25 84 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 progress in a sense, but I'm very pleased2 with where we are right now.3
When you4 first came to Philadelphia, I believe5 there was, what, about 12 police6 districts that were -- was it 12 that7 were --8 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Nine. It9 was nine originally and now it's 12.10
All11 right. I actually want to -- when you12 talk about a decrease in crime in your13 testimony, I'd like to know if you could14 do a decrease or where crime is by area,15 by police district.16 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: We can17 provide you with that, ma'am.18 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:19 Particularly those nine. Three of the20 nine were mine.21 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.22
Okay.23 And with Philly Rising, it sounds like24 one of my questions was answered when you25 85 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 were talking -- when Deputy Mayor was2 talking to Councilman Clarke, and I think3 you said that you've been in the pilot4 area for 15 months; is that true?5 DEPUTY
Okay.8 And in the testimony, it says that these9 areas, these Philly Rising neighborhoods,10 are based on the most affected by crime11 and disorder. So my question was12 originally, how long do you stay when you13 go into an area, but you said --14 DEPUTY
The15 answer -- again, Everett Gillison, Deputy16 Mayor for Public Safety.17 The answer is is that we never18 leave. The way that we are trying to19 make sure that we handle this issue is20 not to have things start and end, but21 rather change the way that we actually22 handle the processes from how government23 responds. How the Police Department24 responds is a culture change to the25 86 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 community policing model. We're not just2 going to, as the Commissioner referenced3 earlier, get someone in a car and drive4 by at 30 miles an hour. That's a5 disconnect. There is a way to actually6 engage and stay engaged with the public,7 which is the heart and soul of community8 policing. Well, it's the heart and soul9 of how a city should respond as well.10 And that's why Philly Rising is not a11 start and end, it is a way of doing12 business that should change, and as we go13 forward, we'll be able to roll out.14 Now, we should be able to15 measure what our effects are across the16 board, and the Police have been able to17 show in the first area somewhere between18 a 12 and 18 percent drop in the Philly19 Rising area that we've been in the20 longest. It's those kind of metrics and21 measures that we are after. So each22 place we go in this model, as we apply23 the model to the area, we want to see24 what effect are we having, and that's25 87 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 going to be a way that we respond to2 those people in that area consistently.3 And that's why it's not just a start and4 an end; it's a way of doing business5 change that we're doing with the City of6 Philadelphia.7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: If I8 could add one thing, ma'am. I think that9 one thing, just to add to what the Deputy10 Mayor is saying, is that at some point,11 there is a transition to a more12 maintenance type of way of dealing with13 issues than it is the initial infusion of14 resources, because once the issue -- same15 thing in PSAs. Once you correct the16 issue, which may take quite a bit of17 resource to do, once that's corrected,18 now you've got to be able to maintain it,19 and that's working with the community,20 because ultimately they're the ones that21 have to maintain the quality of a22 neighborhood, and also with the agencies23 that are there in support of the24 community.25 88 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 So you never leave, but you2 kind of transition into more of a3 maintenance mode, if you will, where you4 continue to provide resources, you5 continue to attack a problem, because in6 many instances, you don't -- when we7 teach in our problem-solving, total8 elimination of a problem is not always9 realistic, but you can have a positive10 impact on it and you can reduce the harm11 from the particular problem. And so it12 depends on what you're dealing with, but13 at some point you do have a maintenance.14 And you're always going to have some15 level of maintenance. You can never just16 totally pull all resources out of an17 area. So once you're there, you're18 there, just to varying degrees.19
Well,20 that's really good to hear, because then21 that's the difference between the22 Partners for Progress and the Operation23 Sunrise that Philadelphia used to have.24 In my district was where a young child25 89 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 was shot and the school crossing guard2 was also shot. You guys remember that.3 And there was a lot of attention to that4 area, like a 20,000-person anti-violence5 march and then came in and did all kinds6 of things in the area, and lots of people7 brought a lot of resources in the area,8 and then it stopped. But, of course, I9 don't -- part of it actually was my10 district and then Councilman Nutter's11 district, where the supposedly offenders12 lived. My district was where the folks13 were shot.14 So I don't really know what's15 happening in certain parts of the16 district, but I don't think -- I do17 believe that people have to continue to18 be involved, the people that live there.19 You can't resolve the issue if they're20 not involved in this.21 So I was just wondering, by22 neighborhood when you're going to expand,23 is there some type of date to expand?24 When are you coming to the 8th District?25 90 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 That's what I want to know.2 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:3 Councilwoman, I am sure that we will be4 in touch. That's all I can say to you5 right now, but believe me, we'll be in6 touch.7
All8 right. Good.9 I have a couple more questions.10 You don't fund YVRP, do you, Youth11 Violence Reduction?12 DEPUTY
That's13 out of my office and the Managing14 Director's Office.15
That's16 going to continue?17 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:18 Absolutely. We have -- there's some19 federal grants this year that are20 expiring, and the budget that has been21 proposed actually has -- the22 Administration is putting and covering23 that deficit. I believe it's up to $1.524 million. That's correct, $1.5 million25 91 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we're suggesting in this budget that we2 put in in order to help fund YVRP.3
Okay. I4 have a couple more questions, but...5 That's it, Council President.6
I7 know that Councilwoman Blackwell wanted8 to be recognized, but she had to go to a9 meeting.10 The Chair recognizes Councilman11 Goode.12
Thank you,13 Madam President.14 Good morning, Commissioner, and15 good morning to the Deputy Mayor and the16 Deputy Commissioners.17 (Good morning.)18
First,19 congratulations on your success, and I20 wish you continued success.21 I was looking at the statistics22 contained within your testimony and I23 note that the homicide rate has gone down24 21.7 percent, but that the amount of25 92 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 shootings has gone down 6.9 percent. Can2 you reconcile that? I mean, is it a3 matter of --4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.5
Is it a6 matter of people not shooting to kill?7 Is it a matter of people having bad aim?8 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I9 think it's a couple things. One, and I10 have to say that we've got some of the11 best trauma centers in the world here in12 Philadelphia. They save a lot of lives13 here in Philadelphia. And I have to say14 that.15 If you look at our statistics16 this year, though, it's just the17 opposite. We're up slightly in18 homicides. Of course, we picked up eight19 in January with the Dr. Gosnell case.20 We're actually four over where we were21 last year if you took that away, but our22 shootings are actually down 10 percent.23 So the mortality rate is up. We're24 actually having more shootings where the25 93 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 intent is exactly to kill, head shots,2 multiple gunshots. We had an individual3 last week that was hit, I think, 10 or 124 times in the body, fortunately has not5 expired, but that shows the level of6 violence toward that particular7 individual. So we do monitor that very8 carefully.9 Retaliations are up slightly,10 and a lot of what we do when Deputy Ross11 is having his crime briefings, when we12 have a shooting, is look to see whether13 or not this is one that's probably going14 to result in some form of retaliation,15 and a lot of times you can anticipate16 that and we try to get out there very,17 very quickly and try to stop that from18 occurring.19 So our homicides were down20 compared -- up until just recently. Our21 shootings are down. But the two don't22 really go hand in hand, because there are23 so many factors that figure in to what24 ultimately results in a homicide.25 94 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Which sort2 of leads to my next question. I'm always3 interested in the update in terms of4 demographics of who is being shot and who5 is being killed. So if you could submit6 through the Chair any recent demographics7 you have with regard to age and race and8 sex and graduation rate, but the one9 thing I'm most interested about in terms10 of the data is how many people were shot11 by people that they know, acquaintances,12 and where we're at in terms of that and13 whether that affects our ability to be14 even more successful in terms of driving15 down those numbers.16 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.17 I can do that, and I can get that18 information to you. I don't know if we'd19 have the graduation rate of the20 individuals that were victims, although21 we could work with the schools to see22 what we could come up with that. But the23 demographic hasn't changed all that much,24 18 to 24, African American male. In many25 95 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 instances, in the majority of instances,2 there is some relationship between the3 victim and offender. I don't mean4 relationship in terms of family, but in5 terms of having some kind of knowledge of6 one another or something that is --7 whether it's an argument over drugs or8 maybe it's over a girl or whatever, but9 they've had some kind of contact with one10 another. That doesn't seem to change.11 The majority are gunshots. As of today,12 76 percent of the homicides we've had are13 due to gun violence. That's a 13 percent14 increase actually over last year. I can15 break it down by race, by sex, all those16 kinds of things for you and get it over17 to you through the President.18
I appreciate19 that. But just lastly, as I said, I'm20 really interested in to what extent if21 these are young black men or young men of22 color who know each other who at some23 point decide to shoot or kill each other,24 what can we do differently about that and25 96 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 how does that affect our ability to be2 even more successful than we've been.3 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I agree.4 I mean, when you take a look at the5 different modus -- for an example, so far6 this year, 25 of the homicides are a7 result of arguments, four a result of8 retaliation. Of course, we have a lot of9 undetermineds, because until you make the10 arrest and do more interviews, you don't11 always know what actually kicked it off.12 But conflict resolution short of using a13 nine millimeter is really part of the14 issue. It seems like there's a15 propensity to go right to the gun or to16 some other form of violence whenever17 there is some kind of dispute between18 individuals, and that seems to be pretty19 consistent.20 I'll let Deputy Ross kind of21 jump in here. He deals with this on a22 daily basis.23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:24 Yeah. Councilman, one of the problems --25 97 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 and clearly some of those stats don't2 change from year to year with regard to3 what the Commissioner talked about in4 terms of folks knowing one another, but5 there's a certain component or element of6 that where we never know the answer to,7 because we get quite a few people who get8 shot who said, I don't know, I was9 walking down the street and the guy with10 a hoodie shot me, or I didn't see the11 gunshots, or some of them just flat out12 tell you, I'm not telling you. I mean,13 they will just -- we've had guys go as14 far as to lie about even being shot and15 they're in the hospital ER, you know.16 So, I mean, some of them are17 just steadfast in their resolve to not18 tell you, and that lends itself to our19 problems, which is the retaliation20 category that the Commissioner spoke21 about, because you kind of know22 intuitively where that's going, and to23 try to some extent to get in front of24 that is what we spend a lot of our time25 98 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 on.2
Okay. Thank3 you.4 Thank you, Madam President.5 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:6 You're welcome.7 The Chair recognizes8 Councilwoman Blackwell.9
Thank10 you, Madam President.11 I only wanted to take a moment12 to say thank you. I know how often I13 call, and I always get support, and I14 call all of you. I call Deputy15 Commissioner Bethel. I call our16 captains. But we are thankful for all of17 that. And we note that the FOP is also18 here. We're glad to see them, and we19 appreciate the relationship and the20 partnership we have to try to make things21 better in our city. Thank you.22 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank23 you, ma'am.24
The25 99 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.2
Thank you.3 Commissioner and all the folks4 at the table, the one thing that I do5 notice relative to responsiveness in line6 with what Councilwoman Blackwell said is7 that I can go to captains and get8 response, which is really a terrific9 thing, because I don't think I've ever10 called any of you about anything. When I11 see you, we have conversation, but to be12 able to call line captains, they get back13 to you, they respond to you, I mean, that14 to me speaks volumes as to how the15 command structure is working, because16 I've always felt that the captain level17 was the level that should be the18 responsive one. So I haven't had a bad19 incident with a captain. At least I get20 an answer. If it's not the answer I'm21 looking for, at least I get a response22 since you've gotten here.23 So I just want to thank you for24 that captain-level response, because25 100 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that's important. Thanks.2 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,3 thank you. And I know that the one thing4 that I certainly emphasize and Deputy5 Ross as well is making sure that these6 unit commanding officers respond not only7 to elected officials but when citizens8 send letters or calls. It may not be9 what you want to hear all the time and it10 may not quite be the response that you're11 looking for, but you get a response, and12 that's critically important. And you're13 right, it should be at that captain or14 unit CO level. But if there's ever an15 issue that you need to bring to one of16 our attention, then please feel free to17 do so.18
Thank20 you.21 I was wondering if Ms. Rhynhart22 was still in the room.23 The Chair recognizes Councilman24 Green.25 101 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
I'm4 sorry. Councilman Jones was next and I5 didn't see him. Yes, he is being given6 preferential privilege today.7
Madam Chair,8 I respectfully request the clock.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Councilman Jones.11
Thank you so12 much, Madam President.13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:14 You're welcome, sir.15
We're really16 encouraged about the resurgence of the17 mounted police. One of the issues18 particularly germane to the 4th19 Councilmanic District is parkland, and I20 wanted to get your assessment of -- we21 did away with the 92nd, I believe it was,22 Precinct who had exclusive domain over23 parks and we kind of patch-worked it in24 with other districts, and I wanted to25 102 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 know, A, how that was working out by way2 of statistics and then, B, if this3 mounted patrol would somehow have a role4 within our park system.5 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.6 So far, it's working out, and the 92nd7 District was an example of one of the8 units that Councilman Green mentioned9 early on that we just simply could not10 afford to hold on to. It was a valuable11 asset to us, but we really couldn't12 afford with the manpower that we13 currently have. I'm told at one point we14 had like 8,000 policemen in Philadelphia,15 and obviously we don't have that any16 longer, so we had to make some tough17 choices.18 Yes, those responsibilities19 have been given to the districts, and so20 far, we've not had any significant21 problems as a result of them absorbing22 that responsibility. One of the things23 that I think will be beneficial with the24 mounted patrol will be our ability to be25 103 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 able to patrol areas that are not easily2 accessible by car or by mountain bike,3 and that's a lot of our trails, jogging4 trails and things of that nature, we will5 be able to reach on horseback. But I6 also want the horses in neighborhoods. I7 want them seen in North Philly. I want8 them seen in West Philly. I want them9 seen in South Philly. I want them in10 neighborhoods as well, so that people11 have a chance to see them. They are an12 effective crime-fighting tool because of13 where the officer is sitting, looking14 down on things. I've seen them where15 theft from auto, for example, people16 breaking in cars, I mean, they're just in17 a better position to do a lot of things.18 And it also enhances our visibility. I19 mean, you have people always say, I never20 see the cops. Well, if you can't see21 somebody sitting on a horse, I can't help22 you. I mean, it just really does a lot23 of positive things for us here in the24 Department.25 104 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 But, yes, sir. It will give us2 the ability, whether we're talking about3 Cobbs Creek or anywhere else, we will be4 able to have a presence out there, and I5 think that's really needed.6
Well, we're7 encouraged about it to begin and possibly8 more. The parks obviously are our9 treasure, and the security of us in the10 park who use it as we start to look at11 traditional areas such as Belmont12 Plateau, but also now that we're opening13 up Schuylkill River Trail and other14 places, we don't want those to become15 targets of opportunity because we don't16 have that kind of presence. So we17 appreciate your effort there.18
And,19 Commissioner, wouldn't you say that20 they're absolutely marvelous for crowd21 control?22 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes.23 Absolutely. And when we have a Philly24 celebration or something like that, and25 105 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 even just the weekends on South Street2 where we have the enormous crowds and it3 comes time to shut that down and move4 people along. One horse is equivalent to5 about ten people when it comes to crowd6 control, and there's just -- you just7 don't have the same kind of conflict as8 you would if you've got people trying to9 move people. A horse can do it and10 people don't feel threatened, it's not11 confrontational, yet they move. And a12 horse will clear an area out in, you13 know, a third of the time that it would14 take us to do it otherwise.15
I just16 wanted to segue quickly and allow my17 colleague to get some time in, but where18 I wanted to go is from the CSI standpoint19 as it affected our view of budgets so we20 know more about the Forensic Science21 Bureau. How are you on personnel there?22 It's my understanding that you may have23 dropped down and lost a couple of24 chemists, from 15 to 12, and medical lab25 106 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 techs, we are down to one, and if that2 impedes upon our ability to solve crimes3 through science.4 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,5 certainly one of the areas that we have6 asked for an exemption during the hiring7 freeze was in the area of forensic8 sciences, among a couple of other areas9 of our operations. It's important that10 we be able to bring people on board. We11 have an excellent staff now, but, again,12 because of volume and workload, we have13 to make sure that we have an adequate14 number of scientists available to us.15 It's not something where you can just16 hire off the street. I mean, these are17 people with a high degree of expertise18 and training that we need.19 So I'll turn it over to Deputy20 Gaittens to kind of get more specific21 about where we're at in terms of any22 shortages.23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:24 You are correct, sir, and that's always a25 107 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 problem with turnover in our lab. Young2 people come in, graduate chemists,3 scientists, and they get their experience4 and then they go elsewhere where they can5 make a little bit more money. We do have6 some positions open right now, both at7 the graduate chemist and biologist8 trainee level. There are five positions9 that we're looking to get filled almost10 immediately. As the Commissioner said,11 for certain positions, we absolutely have12 to have them. Police communications13 dispatchers, the correctional officers,14 anybody involved in prisoner processing15 and, again, in the forensic science area.16 They are making such great17 strides in DNA and the other type of18 investigations they do now that we're19 closing cases and we're getting the right20 people off of the streets. So that is an21 area where we do stay on top of that.22 It's just sometimes it takes a while to23 get a list out or a test and to hire the24 people, but we deal with the turnover as25 108 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 best as we can.2
Do you3 specifically go out and recruit or do you4 rely on the City's Personnel Department5 for that?6 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:7 We do both, to be honest with you. We8 have to go through the Central Personnel9 for the testing process, but I know the10 personnel over at our lab are always11 looking. We have a new lab director over12 there and he's got a lot of energy, so I13 have no doubt that he's reaching out.14
We15 appreciate boots on the ground, but there16 also need to be lab coats in the medical17 part to close the deal, if you would. So18 thank you very much, and I will be paying19 particular attention to that.20 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank21 you.22
Thank you,23 Madam President.24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 109 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 You're welcome.2 The Chair recognizes Councilman3 Green.4
Thank you,5 Madam Chair.6 I note Ms. Rhynhart is back in7 the room, if you wanted to ask that8 question of her.9
Thank13 you.14 Ms. Rhynhart, you heard15 testimony about the possibility of police16 being assigned to the various schools.17 How would we be impacted with Act 46?18
I think that's19 something that we'll have to look at.20 Act 46 has certain requirements if we21 give funding to the schools for certain22 things, that we can't in the future ever23 reduce that. So I don't know at this24 point. It's something that we'll have to25 110 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 look at and get back to you.2
Thank3 you. And I assume that it would be4 entirely up to the Mayor if we find that5 we're not moving as rapidly as we could6 or should for police to come on board. I7 know the Commissioner has said he8 anticipated that we would have probably9 the first class -- not the first class,10 but active patrol in February of 2012.11 Supposing that doesn't happen for some12 reason -- I mean, I can't understand why13 it's taking so long to develop a test,14 so -- you don't have to answer me. It's15 a comment.16
If in18 fact for some reason -- and there could19 probably be a number of reasons -- that20 February comes and goes and we don't have21 any additional police, do you think the22 Mayor would be willing to extend the DROP23 program so that the officers would be24 able to stay an additional year?25 111 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
The question is2 a few parts. I don't think I can speak3 for the Mayor on that. I know that has4 been done in the past, so that would be5 something that could probably be6 considered, but I can't speak for him on7 that. I can speak for the fact of how8 important it is for us to get this police9 class up as quickly as possible and that10 we've already started working to get that11 police class in place.12
Do we13 have someone now who is going to be14 putting the test together? Have we hired15 anybody?16
Oh,19 I'm sorry.20 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yeah.21 This is off our current list.22
Right. That's25 112 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 okay.2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 Because that really annoys me, too.4 Maybe, Ms. Rhynhart, you could5 stay at the table at the same time.6
Sure.7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 Commissioner, you indicated that the9 attrition rate would be 190 officers in10 Fiscal 2011. How many have we lost this11 year to date?12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:13 Year to date we are approximately 145 in14 attrition this year, this fiscal year,15 correct.16
And I17 assume that those that we lost may have18 been because of DROP?19 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:20 Yes, ma'am, although the numbers of21 people in the DROP have gone down22 significantly in recent years. I can23 look up the exact total as to how many24 we're going to lose this year.25 113 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 In Fiscal '12 the number of2 uniform personnel who were eligible to go3 out in the DROP was just 47 and in the4 Fiscal '11, it was 51. Now, what we5 experience is although you start the6 beginning of the fiscal year saying it7 will either be 51 or 47, some people8 actually leave before they go through the9 full four-year term. So there will be --10 by the time we get to the end of the11 year, they'll have gone out before the12 full four-year.13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:14 Commissioner, when you indicated the15 amount of uniform personnel that are16 available for duty each day and I17 asked -- and I think you indicated we18 have 147 that are out sick, 362 on19 vacation, 23 for any other reason to20 leave. My calculations would indicate21 that at the end of the year, we would22 have 5,754 police officers actually on23 duty. That's ten percent of the force24 that are not available on any given date.25 114 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Is that so? I mean, my calculations may2 be way off, but do you see that as a3 reasonable issue?4 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:5 No. Out of the 6,400 that we have, on6 any given day we have 532 that are off7 sick, vacation or other leaves, plus an8 additional --9
You10 speak awfully fast.11 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:12 I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Madam President.13
I14 know I used to take shorthand, but I15 can't write that fast.16 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:17 On any given day, the average is 258 IOD,18 147 sick, 362 vacation, 23 other leave.19 So that is about 790. So on any day, 79020 officers are off in one way or another.21 That's out of 6,496.22
And23 then you add those who are on limited24 duty.25 115 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:2 Right, and that's another --3
Not4 on the street.5 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:6 -- 84 plus another 91, correct.7 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: But the8 key numbers, ma'am, to when you look at9 where we are at the end of the year, when10 you look at the long-term absences, such11 as injured on duty, limited duty where12 you can't perform the full range of13 functions and the same with restricted14 duty, but when you look at vacations or15 sick, you could be sick for a day, two16 days, you come back. Vacations, finite17 period of time. When we look at those,18 we really don't count them as on the more19 permanent side. That's just on any given20 day, you start off short, and that is a21 fact. What hurts us more than anything22 is the long term. That's where the heart23 and lung and things of that nature come24 into play. That really hurts us. You're25 116 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 going to have vacations. You're going to2 have sick. That all figures into your3 relief factor, we call it, which is about4 1.7, 1.8 in our department. So, in other5 words, 1.7 officers to give you for every6 FTE, every full-time employee.7
Okay.8 I just think you are one of the most9 important departments in the City and I10 would hate to think that we could11 possibly be short.12 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I13 mean, it's too high, in my opinion, with14 the limited duty, restricted duty, heart15 and lung. I'm certainly not making16 excuses for that, but we have been very17 fortunate to be working with the FOP18 trying to get those numbers down.19 I don't think when it comes to20 like heart and lung, for an example,21 there is no number that's particularly22 excessive. The goal has to be that23 there's nobody in that status that24 doesn't deserve to be in that status.25 117 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Heart and lung is not a place for you to2 go rest for a month or two to come back3 to work. Everything has to be4 legitimate. If it's 200, it's 200. If5 it's 300, it's 300, but everybody who is6 in it is legitimately in there and we7 don't have any abuse of the system, and8 that's what we're looking at, is to make9 sure that people get back to work as soon10 as they're physically able to get back to11 work.12
Thank13 you.14 The Chair recognizes again15 Councilman Green.16
Thank you,17 Madam Chair.18 Commissioner, how many hostlers19 are in the Police Department?20 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: How many21 what? Hostlers?22
Yes. We are23 looking -- and what is a hostler?24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:25 118 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 A hostler is the person who takes care of2 the horse, grooms them, walks them, feeds3 them.4
Sorry. It8 was a new position and I hadn't seen it9 before.10 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:11 Right. We intend to hire five when we12 build up the Mounted Unit. As of right13 now, there is one. So as the Mounted14 Unit expands, we'll need to bring more15 people on, yes.16
So there is17 currently, I think, six hostler18 positions?19 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:20 That is correct.21
And then one22 hostler group leader?23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:24 That is correct. That's the supervisor.25 119 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
And how many2 horses are we going to have?3 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,4 ultimately we're looking at about 305 horses, a unit of about 25 people.6 Horses, like any other animal, there'll7 be some days when they got to be shoed or8 there's something wrong with them or9 whatever and the vet has got them. So we10 take about 30 mounts to support a unit of11 about 25. That includes the supervisors12 that would be there, and the total unit13 would be about 25 personnel. And plus14 you've got extended shifts and so forth.15
Where are16 you planning on building a stable?17 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well,18 we're looking at a couple locations, but19 the one location that has drawn the most20 attention that the Deputy Mayor has21 really been working with Public Property22 and others is right across from Shamony23 Stables. They're currently there in24 Fairmount Park.25 120 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Where is2 that?3 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:4 Shamony and Green Lane, right where the5 old Shamony Stables is. Directly across6 Shamony Drive, there's an old ball park7 there and that's where the footprint of8 the new Mounted Unit will be.9
We still10 have stables that we own from the old11 Mounted Unit in the Northwest section of12 the City and also in -- when I was being13 taken around by Fairmount Park, I saw the14 stables that are in Northeast Philly, I15 think just off Frankford Avenue. Is16 there a reason we wouldn't put those back17 in service?18 DEPUTY
Yes.19 Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor for Public20 Safety.21 I too went on the grand tour22 and actually went to visit about nine23 different sites around the City, saw the24 various places. The Krewstown, which was25 121 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the last one that was deactivated, the2 amount of money, quite frankly, the3 amount of money that it would take to try4 to retrofit what was there would be in5 excess of what just building new, and6 under today's standards, we get it done7 cheaper and actually faster building new8 than it is to try to take something that9 is old, what we saw, and running in all10 new pipes and everything else that you11 need to do. So the reason is, quite12 frankly, it was a cost decision.13
Okay. In14 the Communication Services Bureau, the15 detail shows that there were nine16 Criminal Investigative Research Analyst17 Trainee positions, which were included in18 last year's budget and vacant as of19 December. Have any of them been filled?20 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:21 As of this point in time, there was one22 that was hired. We will utilize those23 positions in the Realtime Crime Center.24 We are currently in negotiations with25 122 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 both Microsoft and IBM to get this2 project underway. So the bottom line is,3 we will hire those positions once we get4 that center up and running.5
In response6 to budget questions last year, the7 Department indicated that the positions8 were needed to -- basically the9 positions -- that without these10 positions, the Department would have to11 remove sworn personnel from street duty12 to cover these responsibilities. The13 reason they haven't been hired, though --14 so my question really related to whether15 or not we didn't hire them and had nine16 police officers off the street. The17 position has not been filled because we18 don't have the center up yet?19 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GAITTENS:20 That is correct.21
What is the22 Realtime Crime Center going to do?23 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, the24 Realtime Crime Center is really kind of25 123 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 strongly connected to something you said2 earlier in the first round of questioning3 as it relates to the technology. This4 will give us the ability to be able to5 see what's going on in realtime and make6 adjustments in deployment as we see fit.7 It will be the central repository for8 information that will come in. There's a9 data warehouse that's associated with it.10 We'll have people there that will11 analyze, recognize early on trends,12 patterns that may be developing. If13 there's an individual we want questioning14 for a particular thing, we'd be able to15 get a photograph of that person pushed16 right out to the radio patrol car. I17 mean, it becomes the hub of everything18 that's going on in realtime. It has a19 link analysis feature where if you have20 an individual who may be the victim of a21 homicide or whatever or maybe wanted in22 connection with something, where have23 they been arrested previously, who have24 they been arrested with, all those kind25 124 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 of things, known associates, things that2 we can get information out to the3 investigators and others in the field as4 quickly as possible so that we can5 resolve the issue as quickly as possible.6 So that becomes our nerve center for7 everything that's going on that's crime8 related.9
Thank you.10 I want to make a suggestion for your11 website, and you may already do this, so12 I apologize if you do. But there's been13 a lot of burglaries, home break-ins in14 the Northwest section of the City and a15 lot of neighbors and other people are16 going to the trouble, especially with17 cars parked on one side of a park or the18 other, writing down license plate19 numbers, taking pictures of cars that are20 there, sort of doing that sort of thing21 themselves, and then if somebody gets22 robbed, they share the information with23 them. There are particular people that24 are seen walking the neighborhood that --25 125 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Don't2 live there.3
-- sit in4 the park for three hours watching cars5 leave and go, and other neighbors keep an6 eye on that.7 And so the question is, if8 people could download anonymously from9 their cell phones or iPhones, other10 things, pictures that -- you know, just11 suspicious character in my neighborhood12 or suspicious character on my block or13 suspicious character been standing on the14 corner for the last four hours at this15 location, especially with GPS data16 available, it would just give17 investigators something to look at when a18 crime actually happens in that area and19 you wouldn't have to look at it20 otherwise. I think people would feel21 much more comfortable having that outlet22 than calling 9-1-1 when they're just kind23 of like -- people don't call when it just24 doesn't feel right, because there's25 126 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 nothing to report. Just sort of a way of2 cataloguing for the police to go back and3 later look at information that neighbors4 felt nervous about, but didn't want to5 rise to the level of a call, then you6 lose the scrap of paper you wrote the7 license plate number on. I just have8 that as a suggestion.9 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yes, sir.10 And thank you for that suggestion. One11 of the things that a Realtime Crime12 Center will do and one of the features13 will be the ability for somebody through14 Twitter, Facebook or texting to be able15 to reach you directly that way, short of16 calling 9-1-1 or 3-1-1, and we can react17 a lot quicker and check out various18 complaints. And that's one of the things19 that a Realtime Crime Center, we'd have20 people that would be at 24/7 monitoring21 all those different systems, whereas with22 a website, I mean, you're not looking at23 it constantly 24 hours a day, but in the24 Realtime Crime Center, there would be25 127 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 people there. And if you want to send an2 alert through Twitter, through Facebook,3 through text messaging, we'd be able to4 provide them with a way to be able to do5 that, and there would be somebody there6 to be able to see it immediately and if7 needed to send the police or whatever, we8 could do that.9
That10 wouldn't be anonymous, though, and so11 there is a way -- I'm just suggesting a12 portal or channel or even if it's just an13 e-mail address or a text number that -- a14 text that's anonymous and allows people15 to say at this location, something16 nervous.17 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Well, I'm18 certainly not as well versed in19 technology as you are, but we'll set it20 up in a way in which if a person wants to21 leave personal information, they can, and22 if they don't, then they don't have to,23 because the goal, again, is to get the24 information, not to always be able to25 128 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 find the individual, although that's2 always helpful when you can. But we3 certainly can work through that as we4 begin to design the technology for it.5
In many6 neighborhoods that I have been around in7 the City where crime is highest, I think8 cell phones -- the Internet is not -- 419 percent of our citizens don't have10 Internet access, and so cell phones are11 sort of communication that give people12 access, and so the ability to anonymously13 do things like that via text message I14 think would lead to people, especially15 where there's community outreach and foot16 patrol and the PSAs get up and running,17 if that is communicated to citizens, Hey,18 when you see something suspicious, you19 can text a picture to this, I think it20 would generate leads that might prove21 useful. If you do it, I'd be curious to22 know what the results are.23 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: I agree.24
So thank25 129 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you.2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 You're welcome.4 The Chair recognizes Councilman5 Jones.6
Thank you,7 Madam President.8 And Shamony Drive is in the 4th9 Councilmanic District, which is, more10 importantly, strategically located on a11 lot of those trails. In fact, by horse,12 you can get all the way up to Chestnut13 Hill from there, hitting Manayunk, East14 Falls and other areas, or go as far south15 as Cobbs Creek. And I think one of the16 strategic reasons why you would want to17 put it there is horse transport. You18 have fewer miles to transport animals,19 and I just wanted to give you that20 insight as to that.21 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Yeah. It22 cuts down -- one of the problems they had23 with Krewstown is the time it took to24 transport back into the City, and now25 130 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you're talking overtime again, you're2 talking a lot of different issues that3 we've been discussing here today. That's4 a more centrally located place.5
In fact,6 about a mile from there is the Johnstone7 Stable where they used to train the8 mounted police once upon a time, and the9 park guards, they used to learn10 equestrian skills there.11 I'd like to talk about a little12 bit Operation Pressure Point, which deals13 with nuisance bars, I understand. There14 was an article talking about how15 difficult it is to shut down bars. Can16 you give us some insight on that?17 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:18 Yeah. Councilman, a lot of that has to19 do with the State Police involvement. I20 mean, when we were at our height, our21 peak in using Pressure Point,22 particularly as it relates to bars and23 their enforcement, we were working in24 conjunction with the State Police,25 131 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 because they have the ultimate authority2 to do that. We don't have the authority3 as local municipal officers to go in and4 do these spot checks like that. We5 actually can do spot checks, but that's6 the extent of it, where we could walk in7 and basically just take a look, see8 what's going on, but we cannot do9 basically any kind of analysis beyond10 that. That's within the purview of the11 State Police.12 So, I mean, we're going to have13 some discussions with them about that. I14 mean, obviously Pressure Point as it15 relates to our crime deployment will16 continue, but with specifically your17 question about bars, we kind of had to18 back off of that a little bit.19
In light20 of -- have you had -- and maybe we can21 facilitate a joint hearing between the22 Pennsylvania delegation here in Philly23 and this organization in Council to talk24 about that particular issue by way --25 132 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 because it is a common issue, no matter2 what district you're in. You have great3 establishments. Some of them operate4 within the purview of the defined laws on5 the books, and some of them need a little6 bit of coaxing to do. And what we're7 noticing is a lot of transfer of8 ownership in a way that makes us take9 pause, and we might want to have a10 hearing, a joint hearing, with some of11 the legislators at the state level. So12 if it's a need to address it at the13 Commonwealth level, we can, or if it's14 tightening up L&I restrictions here, we15 can. So that might be something we would16 be interested in.17 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:18 Well, I think I can speak for the19 Commissioner in saying we would welcome20 that. I mean, Councilman, one of the21 things that the Commissioner would ask is22 that a lot of these proprietors23 understand that we don't, as a policing24 agency, have an interest in penalizing25 133 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 these owners for calling 9-1-1. I mean,2 which is all we really ask a lot of3 times. And that it is counterproductive4 when a problem that you anticipate gets5 pushed outside of your establishment and6 then what results is a shooting or7 something like that.8 So to the extent that those9 conversations could make it clear to10 those owners that that's not the intent,11 that when you call and these calls are12 documented, they're not done so to13 penalize you later for something that's14 going to hurt your license.15
Again, some16 taverns in communities are an integral17 part of the socialization of that18 community. Some taverns and bars and19 nuisance bars in particular need to be20 addressed.21 A young man that I watched grow22 up in the neighborhood you come from was23 at 5th and I want to call it Olney and24 was shot, robbed outside of a bar, and it25 134 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 was fatal. And I'm saying to you that if2 we notice that in or around these3 establishments we have higher incidents4 of violent crime, we need to address it,5 and either they shape up or we get them6 to ship out.7 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS: I8 couldn't agree with you more. And that9 gentleman that you alluded to, I watched10 him grow up, as he grew up eight or nine11 doors from me. So I know exactly what12 you're talking about.13
Thank you,14 Madam President.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 You're welcome.17 Are there any other questions18 from members of the Committee?19 (No response.)20
I21 don't believe so.22 Commissioner, there's just one23 issue that I always bring up, and I would24 be very guilty if I didn't bring it up25 135 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 today. The 12th Police District, I think2 that is such a large, large district. Is3 there any intention or hope that we will4 be doing something about that?5 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ROSS:6 Councilwoman, all I can say is, we feel7 your pain on that one. I mean, it's a8 large, very busy district with its share9 of issues and we have, since the10 Commissioner has arrived in town, put a11 number of officers in there and assigned12 a number of officers there that weren't13 there previously in terms of aggregate14 numbers, which we think has helped15 immensely. Obviously it's one of the16 ones that has always included our pilot17 foot patrol district.18 So we're always looking at that19 district, always trying to put key20 leadership there. I think one of the21 issues, because it's contiguous to some22 other busy districts, in terms of trying23 to subdivide it, it would almost be24 counterproductive to some extent, because25 136 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the ones right next to it are equally2 problematic. But we just are always3 mindful of the need to put resources in4 there and not look at it from the5 standpoint of, Well, we used to have 1506 and that's good enough. We're constantly7 evaluating and reevaluating that district8 in particular and there are about two9 others that are always high on our list10 year after year after year. I don't have11 to tell you. And we're not, under12 Commissioner Ramsey's leadership, bashful13 about putting whatever we think is14 necessary in that district.15
Thank16 you. Because long before the Eastwick17 Homes were built, I mean, it just seems18 that it's expanding more and more, and I19 was just hoping that there was some hope20 that we would be able to do something21 about it. It's a shame, because the22 police cars have no place to park. It's23 a bad location. It really is a bad24 location. However, I'm sure we're not25 137 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 going to be able to do anything about2 that today.3 I want to thank you all from4 the bottom of my heart, and I'm sure5 everybody feels the same way. Without6 all of you, I don't know what we would7 do. And we want you to know we're8 extremely grateful for all the hard work9 you do. I know whenever I have a10 problem, I see somebody in the audience11 and I don't want to embarrass him, but12 when my back is against the wall, I call13 him and the problem is addressed14 immediately, and I want to thank you for15 that.16 Thank you all very much.17 This Committee will stand in18 recess until 1:30.19 COMMISSIONER RAMSEY: Thank20 you, Madam President.21
Good25 138 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 afternoon. Thank you for your patience.2 This is a continued public hearing of the3 Committee of the Whole.4 Our next group to testify will5 be the Fire Department.6 Commissioner, if you would7 approach the table please, identify8 yourself for the record and proceed with9 your testimony.10 (Witnesses approached witness11 table.)12
Good13 afternoon. 16 Council President Verna and17 members of the City Council, for the18 record, I am Fire Commissioner Lloyd19 Ayers. With me is David Beatrice, Deputy20 Commissioner for Administrative Services,21 and members of my executive team and22 staff. 24 The Philadelphia Fire25 139 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Department plays a large role in keeping2 Philadelphia safe. 6 The Department also responded7 to over 223,000 calls for emergency8 medical services, with 76 percent of9 those calls leading to transportation to10 a hospital. 24 Additionally 2,000 alarms have been given25 140 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to the Department through the Federal2 Emergency Management Agency, and we have3 started installation and distribution in4 conjunction with the Change Your Clock,5 Change Your Battery program. In 2010, we6 saw the third lowest number of fire7 fatalities in recorded history in the8 City of Philadelphia. 14 In an ongoing effort to enhance15 the delivery of emergency medical16 services, the Department initiated an17 emergency medical services pilot program18 on August 3rd of last year. This19 involves 9-1-1 EMS responses within a20 defined catchment area by an Advanced21 Life Support response vehicle designated22 as AQR1. m. m. 7 The Department's electronic8 incident reporting system is now9 operational for all fire and first10 responder incident responses, allowing us11 to eliminate paper documentation for12 reporting purposes. This also allows us13 to be in compliance with federal14 reporting standards through the National15 Fire Incident Reporting System. It is16 important to note that the number of17 reported and classified structure fire18 incidents will increase over the course19 of the next year with the implementation20 of this new reporting system, as the21 definition of a "structure fire" has22 changed under the federal system. 5 During the fall of 2010,6 Northrop Grumman completed Phase 2 of the7 Computer-Aided Dispatch upgrade, which8 changes the way in which we dispatch our9 vehicles. We can now use the global10 positioning of our vehicles and apparatus11 as opposed to a station location;12 therefore, enabling us to better deploy13 our resources. 17 In March of this year, the18 Department began conducting high rise19 training for all command officers and20 selected fire service companies. 24 For Fiscal Year 2012, the25 143 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Department is requesting a total2 operating budget of $198,127,969. 16 In the wake of recent federal17 court decisions that scrutinize the18 development of firefighter exams and the19 creation of eligibility lists, the Office20 of Human Resources is in the process of21 soliciting proposals to develop a new22 civil service examination for the23 entry-level position of firefighter. 2 Additionally, the Department3 will hire an estimated 25 to 304 paramedics in Fiscal Year 2012. We began5 the testing and hiring process earlier6 this fiscal year and anticipate bringing7 in this new class April 18th. 22 The Department is requesting23 $125,000 to replace 125 self-contained24 breathing apparatus bottles for fire25 145 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 service personnel. 10 These funds will help to alleviate issues11 with not having hired a new class in the12 past three years. We have seen an13 attrition rate of roughly 80 to 9014 members per year, but have been unable to15 hire a class due to legal and financial16 issues. 19 With regards to our upcoming20 projects in Fiscal Year 2012, the21 Department would like to note the22 following anticipated projects or23 programs. Due to the new leasing program24 in the Office of Fleet Management, the25 146 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Department will be able to receive four2 ladders, 20 pumpers and 12 new medic3 units. 12 The Fire Department is13 committed to supporting the14 Administration's goal of 25 percent15 minority, woman and disabled-owned16 businesses participating in City17 contracting.
6 This concludes my testimony. 10 I speak not only for myself, but for all11 of the members in saying that your12 support is much appreciated. Thank you13 very much. 15
Thank16 you.17 When are the Advanced Life18 Support units in service?19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The20 Advanced Life Support services units are21 in service at various times. We have22 24-hour medic units Advanced Life23 Support. We also have 12-hour Advanced24 Life Support units. So they are system25 148 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 status and they are -- they're time2 staggered.3
You4 mention in your testimony that you have5 initiated an EMS pilot program designed6 as the Advanced Quick Response Unit in7 order to have an ALS presence when ALS8 units are not in service. You state that9 this unit is non-transport. Can you10 explain what the AQR1 unit does and how11 the person is transported to the12 hospital.13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes,14 President. The AQR vehicle is Advanced15 Quick Response. Their job is to be16 dispatched to a medic call. They run17 along with -- it could be a fire company18 as well as an Emergency Medical Services19 system that is BLS, and what they do is,20 they respond. They'll probably get there21 before the Basic Life Support unit.22 They'll start the intervention. They'll23 make sure that the patient is stabilized,24 and then the transport is actually done25 149 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 in the Basic Life Support vehicle. So2 they actually get there, package the3 patient, and then they'll make sure that4 the patient gets to the hospital.5
Well,6 would they be able to administer drugs?7 COMMISSIONER AYERS:8 Absolutely.9
They10 could?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They are12 fully equipped to get there and13 administer all of regular Advanced Life14 Support. The thing with that is, they15 remain within a catchment area. If they16 were a carry unit at this point, they17 would be drawn off into the system. And18 now what we have is a unit that actually19 stays in a certain catchment area and20 services that area.21
So I22 assume they're replacing rover that we23 talked about last year?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They're25 150 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 not replacing. They're in addition.2 This is a pilot.3
We4 still have rover?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is the6 rover unit. So I guess it's a different7 terminology.8
Thank9 you.10 How many EMT positions are you11 budgeted for in Fiscal 2012?12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Council13 President, you're talking about14 paramedics, correct?15
EMTs,16 yeah. Paramedics.17 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We are18 budgeted for 280 paramedics.19
Don't20 change your page yet.21 How many EMT vacancies do you22 currently have?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS:24 Seventy-two vacancies.25 151 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
On2 average, how long does it take to fill an3 EMT position?4 COMMISSIONER AYERS: On5 average, it takes approximately seven6 weeks to go through the normal process7 and school at the fire -- at fire school.8 Then they'll be precepted for several9 other weeks and then they'll go into10 service. So it's maybe about three11 months to actually get them into service.12
On13 of your budget detail, it reflects14 a reduction of 98 uniform positions.15 What positions are being eliminated?16 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:17 This is Dave Beatrice.18 The 98 represent firefighter19 positions. They're not being eliminated.20 We are just recognizing the fact that21 until the new exam goes through, we22 probably would not be able to fill those23 positions until early Fiscal '13. So24 those positions were taken out of the25 152 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 full funding and the funding was placed2 into overtime. So they're not being3 eliminated.4
Well,5 I would appreciate it if you would look6 at Section 45, .7 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:8 Yes.9
But10 doesn't it reflect -- it actually11 reflects full-time elimination of 98.12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:13 They're not being counted in the14 authorized position this year. The15 funding is being placed into the overtime16 line for the 98.17
Good afternoon.23 Rebecca Rhynhart, Budget Director.24 For the budgeted positions, as25 153 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you know, we budget to dollars and not to2 actual positions. But when we look at3 the position counts, we try to be as4 accurate as possible to the maximum5 amount of positions that can be filled6 during a given year. And because in7 Fiscal '12 it's not anticipated that8 we'll be able to add firefighters, those9 positions were removed from that maximum10 position count for '12. In Fiscal '13,11 we would assume to see those positions go12 back in as they -- because it would then13 be reasonable to assume that the14 positions would be filled.15
Thank16 you. We're not accustomed to that17 process.18
Thank20 you.21 Commissioner, how many22 firefighter positions are currently23 vacant?24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:25 154 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 There are no vacant firefighter2 positions. Every slot in the Department3 has someone assigned to it. It is the4 extra positions that would be -- if you5 had the positions, they would fill in6 when another firefighter or member would7 go out on vacation or sick leave.8
I9 don't quite understand that.10 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:11 If you were looking back to the budget12 before where you had the higher13 authorized number, you would probably14 look at it as being 80 vacancies. Now15 that we're going to actual positions, you16 wouldn't see the 80 vacancies. You would17 see the funding in overtime, though. The18 funding was not taken away for those19 positions.20
So21 I'll ask you in a different way. How22 many current positions are presently23 filled?24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:25 155 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Twelve hundred and sixty-eight2 firefighter positions in Division 1.3
And4 how does that compare to last year?5 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:6 Compared to last year, we probably lost7 the 80 members on average due to8 attrition. So the number would have been9 last year approximately 80 to 90 higher10 at this time.11
Eight12 positions?13 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:14 Eighty to 90.15
Oh,16 80?17 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:18 Eighty to 90. Sorry.19
Let's20 do some calculation.21 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:22 Sure.23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:24 Twelve sixty-eight. Okay?25 156 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:2 Yeah. That was on the increment run3 listed in the budget in Division 1.4
And5 if you add the 280 for the EMT6 positions --7 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:8 Well, all the firefighters are EMTs.9 Instead of EMTs, are you referring to the10 paramedic positions, 280?11
Yeah.12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:13 All right. The paramedic, we have 7214 less than the 280. So we have the 20815 paramedics in Division 5.16 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:17 Making it very confusing to me.18 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:19 We'll be glad to provide further detail20 at a later time.21
What22 is your current attrition rate for the23 firefighters?24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:25 157 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Eighty to 90 members a year.2
We3 said that before.4 And how many of them are on5 DROP and how many do you anticipate will6 be going on DROP?7 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:8 I don't have that in front of me, because9 of the rush we had a few months ago10 probably threw it out of balance, but11 usually every year, except for that, we12 probably had 50 a year included in part13 of the 80 that left. I think the past14 few months ago we've had a big rush, but15 we wouldn't anticipate them leaving for16 another four years. But next year we'll17 probably lose the normal 50 or so.18
The19 Personnel Director testified that the new20 firefighters list will not be available21 until either November or December of this22 year and the next class will not start23 until sometime in the early part of24 Calendar Year 2012.25 158 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 With this being said, how do2 you propose to reduce your uniform3 overtime budget by $4.2 million, as4 reflected on of your detail?5 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:6 That 4.2 million, the bulk of that is a7 one-time reduction because of $3.88 million of that was due to the Lawrence9 paramedic decision. So you would have to10 reduce it down.11
What12 is the operational impact to the13 firefighting capabilities of your14 department of not being able to replace15 firemen until Calendar 2012? And with16 that being said, will we see more17 brownouts?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The impact19 as related to the class being hired in20 the last quarter of 2012, we actually21 have minimum staffing and we hire on22 overtime. This is the reason that the23 overtime was added into our budget. And24 moving forward, we expect that the25 159 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 current brownout level will be what it2 is, unless there's some other type of a3 reduction that comes our way. Right now4 this is our budget going forward. We5 expect to staff using overtime and we6 expect the brownouts to stay where they7 are right now.8
You9 know, and with the paramedics, I know,10 Commissioner, you have said time and time11 again that you found it very difficult to12 recruit them?13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.14
Could15 you be having a hard time recruiting them16 because -- even if we do get them,17 they're trained here and then they go to18 another county. Could it be because19 they're really burned out and the salary20 that we offer is certainly a lot less21 than what the other counties offer?22 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, one23 of the things that we've seen over the24 past year, Madam President, is the fact25 160 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that many of those things that we did to2 counter that effect was, one, the3 recruitment, making sure that we had a4 battalion chief in charge of the5 recruitment, going to all of the schools,6 going to other jurisdictions, also a7 national advertisement, making sure that8 we got advertisement in the emergency9 medical services magazines, so people10 would see that Philadelphia was hiring.11 And also we stopped and we looked at who12 actually responded to that, and we had a13 list of over 50 people, 50 names, which14 we were very satisfied with. We went15 from zero to 50 or very few to 50, and16 now that enabled us to hire this class17 that's coming up on the 18th. And we18 have others that's on the list right now19 currently that we will be hiring as soon20 as we can get this next group into the21 City service. So we feel really good22 about what we've done.23
That24 sounds very encouraging to me, because I25 161 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 think every year you came in and2 testified that you had difficulty3 recruiting. I truly believe that most of4 them get burned out and the salary level5 of what other counties pay are more than6 ours. But that to me is very7 encouraging.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we9 went away with your instruction and10 encouragement from Council to do certain11 things. We had information from other12 City sources, and we followed those13 instructions and we stayed the course and14 now we too are very encouraged.15
Thank16 you. Thank you very much.17 The Chair recognizes Councilman18 Greenlee.19
Thank20 you, Madam President.21 Good afternoon, everyone. I22 just want to go back. Actually, my23 questions are kind of, I guess, followups24 to what the President was asking.25 162 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 I'm confused, and maybe it's2 just I don't understand the terms. On3 this Advanced Quick Response issue, you4 say it's in service from 8:00 p.m. to5 8:00 a.m., which is when the ALS system6 status units are not in service. I guess7 I'm just -- maybe I don't understand the8 term. I guess what's the difference?9 I'm trying to figure out what the10 difference is.11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, the12 difference is the demand on our Emergency13 Medical Services system. When the demand14 goes down, one of the things that happen15 is, the system status units actually go16 offline, and they maintain -- we still17 maintain the adequate number of response18 units needed to face that demand.19 The AQR was put in a pilot that20 we put into service in a catchment area21 so that they would augment what we22 already had in that area. So this is23 something that's a pilot project. It's24 more than what we had in the system25 163 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 before August the 4th, and they've been2 in service since then, and we've been3 getting some encouraging numbers. What4 they showed us is that -- what the5 responses from AQR showed us is that they6 remained in the catchment area, they're7 able to service that catchment area and8 they're not bogged down by other calls in9 other areas of the system. So we see it10 as a very positive improvement to our11 system.12
And how13 many catchment areas are there?14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Just one.15 This is a pilot. This is the first one.16
Okay.17 You're just doing it in the one thing. I18 think I follow that. Thanks.19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, sir.20
Now, you21 talk about the fire fatalities, the third22 lowest. In real numbers, that's what the23 33 is here?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's25 164 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 correct, 33, 32 and 30.2
Do you3 know how many of those were where lack of4 smoke detectors or working smoke5 detectors were involved?6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The7 majority, and this year we're looking at8 80 percent. Last year we were around, I9 believe it was, 75 percent of those10 deaths. And we believe that continuing11 to educate our public, continuing to do12 the integrated risk management, going13 into the -- knocking on the doors of14 homes in the most challenged areas, we15 have been getting those deaths down.16
Okay.17 Great. On the firefighter exam that18 you'll have, who actually puts that19 together? Is the Fire Department, are20 you involved in that setting up?21 COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. That22 is done by Human Resources. They are23 tasked with that and they have that24 complete responsibility.25 165 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
They2 don't ask you -- I mean, since it's a3 firefighter exam, wouldn't the Fire4 Department have some input in that?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They reach6 out and they have their own experts, and7 they put the exams together, and they8 have that challenge. And, again, as we9 mentioned earlier, there are certain10 requirements based on court verdicts and11 things like that across the country,12 decisions across the country, and they13 have to follow those very unique and14 sensitive guidelines.15
Last16 thing, just so I'm clear on the17 paramedics, I think Deputy Commissioner18 had mentioned before there was 7219 vacancies, they're going to hire the 24,20 right?21 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That's22 correct.23
You're24 going to have the open enrollment, so the25 166 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 goal is to get to that 72?2 COMMISSIONER AYERS:3 Absolutely.4
And I5 think I heard you say to Council6 President you're confident that can7 happen?8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, I'm9 very confident.10
All11 right. Okay. We all are, I guess.12 Thank you. Thank you very13 much.14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.15
Thank16 you, Madam President.17 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:18 You're welcome.19 The Chair recognizes Councilman20 Rizzo.21
Thank you,22 Madam Chair.23 Good morning -- good afternoon.24 I'm sorry.25 167 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good2 morning, Councilman -- afternoon,3 Councilman.4
Morning and5 afternoon.6 Could you please -- I'm going7 to read your testimony on . "We8 have seen an attrition rate of roughly 809 to 90 members per year, but have been10 able to hire a class due" -- and this is11 the question: What legal issues do you12 have that you can't hire a class?13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We don't14 have legal issues at this point. The15 legal issues are actually following the16 process that some of the legal issues17 around the country presented and --18
In your19 testimony you say you can't hire a class20 due to legal and financial issues.21 DEPUTY
If I22 may, I'll answer on behalf of the23 Commissioner.24 Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor25 168 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 for Public Safety.2 Over the last basically two and3 a half years, there have been several4 Supreme Court decisions. One in5 particular came out in the fall that6 indicated that due to either one7 challenge or another on either side,8 minority staffing issues and/or what is9 sometimes euphemistically called reverse10 discrimination, those issues have to be11 dealt with in a positive way.12 The New Haven decision that13 came out in the fall actually is the one14 that we are now and all over as managers15 across the City, we are all in16 consultation with one another to make17 sure that we are following to the letter18 the law as the Supreme Court has defined19 it. Sometimes that is incongruent with20 one another, but we're finding that there21 are several companies that are out there22 that will help design tests that will be23 sensitive to all parties.24 So we are in the process, and25 169 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that's what our Human Relations2 Department is doing, putting together an3 RFP that is going to allow a company to4 be selected by the City who will design5 the test to the standards that everyone6 believes is fair and has been recognized7 by the Supreme Court of this country as8 being fair to all.9 Once we get that RFP not only10 answered, then selected, then have the11 test designed, going forward we believe12 that's the challenge going forward, and13 that's why it will take as long as it14 will take.15
If we did16 not have financial issues, you're telling17 me that we still couldn't hire --18 DEPUTY
Why can we25 170 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 if --2 DEPUTY
The3 paramedics are in a completely different4 situation. The paramedics was as a5 result of a lawsuit that was filed by the6 paramedics in the City, that we ended up7 having to wait and get some clarity on8 how the paramedics should be hired, but9 that has been straightened out. That's10 been dealt with, and now we are hiring11 paramedics. As the Commissioner has12 indicated, we are hiring paramedics as of13 next week.14
Okay. I'll15 accept your answer, but I can't imagine16 that legal issues that happen in New17 Haven and other places would prevent us,18 with all the lawyers we have, with moving19 forward with a hiring process that's20 legal. So I just -- I have a tough time21 understanding. Maybe it's me not22 understanding, but I want to go on to my23 next question.24 We would have hoped that the25 171 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 brownout issue would have been resolved.2 You all know it's still very3 controversial, but what I want to ask4 you, could you explain to me and to the5 Council how overtime -- and I come from a6 utility background, and I can tell you7 that many, after case studies of serious8 accidents and fatalities, are people that9 have worked too many hours.10 How do you fill these positions11 with overtime? Are they strictly days12 off? Could a firefighter be responding13 to a fire after working 18 hours?14 DEPUTY
No.15 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We have16 limits on the amounts of overtime that17 can be worked and the length of time that18 you have to be off before you can work in19 overtime. So we actually monitor that.20
My question,21 could a firefighter be asked to fill a22 slot that already put in a shift?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: After?24 Could you complete the question?25 172 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
If I worked2 Saturday, could the battalion chief come3 or could someone come and say, We need4 you to work a double?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: If you6 haven't worked two shifts already, the7 answer is yes. If you worked two shifts8 already, the answer is no.9
So you10 could -- how many hours is one shift?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: One shift12 is 14 or 10 hours, 10-hour days, 14-hour13 nights.14
So a person15 in a busy engine or ladder company could16 work over 20 hours -- let's say that17 they're at their 20th hour and the alarm18 could go, and they'd have to work after19 being on the clock for 20 hours? And I20 said a busy place, because everybody21 assumes firefighters, which they don't, I22 know, you know, all over the City aren't23 in a situation where they're idle. They24 could be at their 14th hour just25 173 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 returning from a run and two hours later2 going out on another run.3 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, but4 thank goodness, Councilman, those days5 are over. We are not quite that busy6 anymore. We are busy. We do have7 companies --8
It could9 happen.10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It could11 happen, because it's situational, yes.12
And you13 agree with me, Commissioner, that a14 person after being on the clock,15 especially in a busy location, being on16 the clock 18, 19 hours could jeopardize17 their judgment or safety?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We allow19 the firefighters to work 24 hours20 straight. After 24 hours, they get off.21 If it was an overtime that was available22 for a firefighter, that firefighter would23 not be able to make the overtime. If24 they took on an extra alarm in the 23rd25 174 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 hour of that shift, they would be setting2 up, doing all of those things that they3 normally would do, and immediately the4 incident commander, along with the5 logistics officer, will be scheduling6 relief for those persons that worked that7 shift to leave the fire ground and be8 replaced by the oncoming shift. So we9 would be looking for relief for that10 person.11
My last12 question. It took this Council to deal13 with some property issues. I remember14 sitting in this Chamber when the15 Carpenter Lane fire station floor was16 falling through, and to tell you the17 truth, at that hearing it was not a18 priority by either Public Property or the19 Fire Department. I don't think either of20 you realized how big a deal you really21 had, because the issue was made by my22 colleague Councilwoman Miller about the23 condition of that. Until then, that24 firehouse was business as usual. It took25 175 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this Council to bring that to your2 attention and also some push from a few3 of us to address that issue.4 Do we have any other Carpenter5 Lane firehouses where they should get6 some immediate action and not after a7 Council budget hearing pushes both Public8 Property and the Fire Department and the9 Administration to do something about it?10 Obviously after it was inspected, it was11 deemed a very bad, dire situation. It12 had to pretty much be emptied until it13 was repaired.14 Do we have any other15 circumstances? Because I'm getting16 e-mails from firefighters, police17 officers telling me about the terrible18 condition, especially in our police19 stations. The fire stations are a bit20 different because they're used21 differently than a police station, but do22 we have any other circumstances that need23 some immediate attention?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: There's a25 176 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 list that we have that's managed by2 Capital and we have that list3 prioritized, and we go down that list and4 service those stations that have issues5 related to floor problems, roof problems,6 health and safety problems around alarms.7 So that list is right now being worked.8 So I would say, yes, we have9 stations that need repair and that we are10 taking care of it in a prioritized11 manner. And we do appreciate the fact12 that Council monitored and pushed us to13 make sure that that got done at 914 Station.15
My point16 again to end was that Carpenter Lane was17 on that list, but it didn't get taken18 seriously until people went back out19 there and realized we could have an20 apparatus in the basement. So my point21 being is that Carpenter Lane was on22 there, and I hope that that list is being23 taken seriously, that we don't have a24 serious situation in one of the25 177 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firehouses. And when Public Property2 gets here, we'll talk more about the3 police facilities, but I can tell you4 that there's some concern out there about5 that list, that that list is getting6 pretty stale.7 DEPUTY
If I8 may, Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor for9 Public Safety.10 Quite frankly, Councilman, I11 was here at the hearing. The next day I12 went out to inspect, along with the13 Commissioner. I took Public Property14 with me and CPO. We inspected. We had15 an engineering study that was done. We16 worked and we looked at it, and then we17 looked at the list.18 Since that time and as a19 result, I have taken not only the Fire20 Department but the Police Department as21 well and we go over the, what I call, the22 top list of what we need to address and23 how we need to address it.24 Obviously a lot of this is25 178 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 prioritization, and, quite frankly, along2 with the Police Commissioner and the Fire3 Commissioner and the Prisons4 Commissioner, the three of us will sit5 down and make that, and ultimately it6 will come down to my call, depending on7 what we see needs to be done.8 When I went out to that9 particular station, we were given three10 different ways of analyzing how to handle11 the problem. It was an easy way, a12 harder way and then the hardest way, and13 we chose the hardest way, because I14 didn't want to have to go back and do it15 again. So that's why it took as long as16 it took, because instead of just17 repairing the problem, we fixed the18 problem. And sometimes it takes a little19 longer, but that's what we do.20 And so, yes, we are looking at21 it. Yes, we are prioritizing it. Yes, I22 am aware, having been a member and been23 in this city for all my entire life, I'm24 aware of the conditions that exist all25 179 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 over in Public Safety, and we have not2 only worked the plan that we came in with3 by prioritizing different things in4 different opportunities, but in seeking5 consolidation, in seeking data that will6 give us the best way forward. That's our7 approach. That's what we're trying to8 do. And, quite frankly, if we had the9 ability to float many, many, many bonds,10 I am sure the Budget Director will tell11 you, if you were to ask her, that Public12 Safety would probably suck up a billion13 dollars worth of building that needs to14 be done in this city. We don't have it,15 so we have to prioritize, and that's what16 I try to do as I go forward. But I do it17 with Council obviously being there as a18 partner.19 Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller,20 Councilwoman Tasco, yourself brought up21 that fire station to our attention. I22 went out personally with all those23 involved, and we ended up addressing it.24 Sometimes that's what it takes, but I can25 180 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 tell you that we've done this now in a2 way that I get reports on a bimonthly3 basis of where we are and where we stack4 with our public facilities, and I thank5 you for that.6
Deputy7 Mayor, it sounds like there's a better8 eye on the ball now. It sounds like that9 you're paying attention to that list and10 not just letting it --11
Could you14 wait until I finish, please.15 That now we are waiting for16 a -- now we are looking at that list,17 we're prioritizing, which is very18 important. But I think prior to your19 involvement in that particular issue,20 that that wasn't happening.21 DEPUTY
We have22 the availability. I mean, we're looking23 at -- as I've always told people, you24 have to do it just like you look at a25 181 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 house. It's roofs, stop the water from2 coming in, stop the foundations from3 washing away and see where we are. So4 it's roof, walls and foundations. That's5 what we have to deal with. We've had a6 lot of different things from the PICA7 report from prior to my getting here, and8 I look at that as well as other things9 that we really have to do. It's just --10 it is a little bit overwhelming, but we11 live in a finite world and we just have12 to prioritize as we go through.13
Thank you,14 Madam Chair.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 You're welcome.17 Councilman Green, do you have a18 point of information?19
Yes. Thank20 you, Madam Chair.21 Deputy Mayor, I appreciate the22 statements that you're making. They're23 the same statements that were made last24 year in budget hearings and the same25 182 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 statements that were made the year before2 in budget hearings. Since 2008, we have3 been talking about in City Council Fire4 Department hearings the PICA reports from5 2006 and 2007, which identify health,6 safety and life-critical issues in fire7 stations and police stations. The money8 has been appropriated, appropriated for9 those fixes by this body in capital10 plans. You have the resources available.11 What the Capital Program Office has done12 is not release available dollars to those13 issues, but on January 1st of this year,14 two and a half million dollars was15 released for planting trees to the Parks16 and Recreation Department. I would17 suggest that these issues are more18 important than those issues and that19 choices are being made. Resources are20 available. They're just not being21 deployed in a way that I think is more22 appropriate. And so I just wanted to put23 that on the record, felt the need to put24 that on the record given your response to25 183 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilman Rizzo's questions.2 Thank you, Madam Chair.3
Thank4 you.5 The Chair recognizes6 Councilwoman Blackwell.7
Thank8 you, Madam President.9 I only rise to say, as has been10 said before, that we remain concerned11 about the brownouts. We thank the12 Commissioner for all they do. I see the13 Firefighters Union are here, Bill Gault14 and company. And this will always be an15 issue, brownout. And I know we don't16 reduce the employees, but we still limit17 their opportunity for success.18 So we continue to say to the19 Administration, to the Mayor that we'd20 like to go back to the days where we21 don't have brownouts in spite of the fact22 that we're going to get additional23 classes, so forth.24 We thank the Commissioner and25 184 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 his team for all that they do, but we2 want to keep this issue alive.3 Thank you, Madam President.4 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:5 You're welcome.6 The Chair recognizes Councilman7 O'Neill.8
Thank you,9 Madam President.10 Commissioner, when Council11 President was asking the panel about the12 number of people that leave each year,13 the sub-number, the sub-category was the14 number of people that leave that are in15 DROP. This is not a normal year. And I16 think the number was around 50. Do you17 know how many it is right now for this18 year, people that you expect to lose by19 the end of the fiscal or over the next20 calendar year, let's say, whatever you21 use as that year?22 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:23 I would expect the same to leave for the24 next three years. I think we're looking25 185 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 four years from now to see a big loss.2
Okay. So3 that group of approximately 50. In4 conjunction with the fact that through5 our inability -- and I'm not saying that6 it's an inability that is in question. I7 mean, we're taking you at your word. You8 can't get this test done quickly enough,9 but it's delaying something you otherwise10 want to do and also that the Council11 wants to do, which is really in the best12 interest of the City, is to get more13 firefighters on the street.14 We have approximately 5015 firefighters that will be going out on16 DROP that we can extend for a year if17 they're willing to and we're willing to,18 all or most of those that would accept.19 I mean, that's an enormous -- that's like20 a class. How many is in a normal class?21 That's a full class right there. You get22 your class in, they're already23 experienced. You save the money of24 running the class, the six-month delay of25 186 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the class, if we had everything ready to2 go today.3 Is there any way we can,4 working together, get that to happen?5 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:6 Councilman, I can tell you that that is7 something that we will be discussing and8 we keep it under discussion. If you9 recall, when the Mayor came on board, we10 ended up doing that with the police.11
So14 depending on the conditions and depending15 on the recommendations both from the16 Commissioner and myself, I'm sure the17 Mayor will take that under advisement.18 But I hear your point and it's a point19 well taken.20
And I21 think Council, not just leadership, not22 just the President, but Council in its23 entirety supports that initiative, and I24 think it would just go a long way to do a25 187 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whole lot of good all over the place. 6 Commissioner, the other7 question I have is one that I'm going to8 use the example -- start out with an9 example of something I grew up with where10 there were a lot, now I understand11 there's very few, and that's false12 alarms. 19 Now, I say that because I hear20 from different EMTs and firefighters who21 are working as EMTs that particularly22 with the low staffing, with everybody23 needed that you have available out24 fighting fires, delivering EMT services,25 188 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whatever it is, you're really down to the2 bone or below, digging into the bone3 right now with your numbers of personnel,4 that we don't handle false 9-1-1 alarms5 on the medical side the way we easily6 could handle a false alarm. 11 And you have the perfect front line. 2 If you were to know that it3 could be another five or ten minutes if4 somebody who had a cold yesterday at 25 o'clock in the morning is calling 9-1-1,6 we're taking an engine or a ladder out of7 service, we then are taking the EMT. And8 I just think the time has come for 9-1-19 false alarms. And we almost have the10 same ability. I mean, essentially the11 same. We got trained personnel comes12 there and they know this wasn't a 9-1-113 call, it wasn't life threatening. And I14 don't know how we deal with it. I don't15 know how other jurisdictions deal with16 it, but I've talked to personnel in your17 department more about this in the last18 year or two than ever before, and it19 seems to be building, the frustration of20 knowing how short you are in personnel21 and that this -- while it may not have22 been as prevalent as when we had the big23 numbers of personnel years ago and it was24 just a lot of people used it, we can't25 190 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 afford anybody doing this anymore. It2 has to be the zero tolerance of the false3 alarms on the fire side. 5 I'd really appreciate some kind6 of training going in, some kind of7 feedback on a regular basis from your8 personnel. 17 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you,18 Councilman O'Neill. Several things that19 we are in the process of doing now to20 address that very situation. 20 What this does is actually stack calls,21 those who are less -- those calls that22 are less emergent, say the heart attack23 versus the headache and I just don't feel24 good and I believe I have the flu. 4
See, I5 want to know -- I understand what you're6 saying, but I don't think it's7 responsive.8 DEPUTY
What11 debriefing do we do from the personnel12 that go out there? I'm talking about the13 person that might have the flu who is14 telling us something that is requiring a15 9-1-1 call with a ladder or an engine and16 then an ALS behind it. Because they're17 gaming the system basically, and we can't18 afford to have anybody gaming the system19 anymore.20 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:21 Councilman, I hear you. I hear you.22 Believe me, it's been part of the23 frustration of and really getting to know24 the job. And I do hear you, because25 193 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 basically what you're talking about is2 something we all know. I'm a gunshot3 victim. Then we get there, no gunshot4 and it's just a carry to go to the5 hospital, believing falsely that they6 will get immediate service once they get7 to the hospital. And the question is,8 what can we actually do legally and9 otherwise to stop that practice. It's an10 excellent point.11 I believe that you're right.12 It's something that I will start to not13 only inquire of my fellows from all over14 the country, but also start to look and15 see what kind of -- what can we do here16 within the system we currently have.17
We22 criminalized false alarm fires a long23 time ago.24 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER GILLISON:25 194 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Right.2
I think3 it's time to criminalize and send a4 message out that one is no different,5 because public safety is that adversely6 affected.7 DEPUTY
Yeah.8 And I'm sure that there's a number of9 things in the criminal -- I was just10 thinking that there's a couple of11 statutes that are applicable already in12 the matter. I'll take a look at it and13 I'll have my staff look at it. It's14 something I'll be able to get back to15 you, but thank you.16
The21 Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a22 point of information.23
I would like24 to back up what Councilman O'Neill is25 195 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 saying, because just to digress a second,2 just to make a point. We spent millions3 of dollars in data gathering at 9-1-14 center, and I understand how the call5 comes into Police and they transfer it to6 Fire, but I've been saying for years to7 the people that run 8th and Race that8 when a phony call comes in, assist the9 officer, just to see police cars, Deputy10 Mayor, there's no followup. We know the11 phone number. We have caller ID. We12 have all the information of where that13 call came from. I just don't understand14 why a supervisor isn't immediately15 dispatched to that location where the16 call came from and find out who made the17 phony call. We have the data. We have18 the name, but at least put the fear of19 God in them that they can't continue to20 do that.21 How many times have unfounded22 fire engine runs and fire runs been23 responsible for serious injury?24 So, honestly, I think we have25 196 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the data. Let's start sending some2 people into the location where the phony3 call came from.4 Thank you, Madam President.5 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:6 You're welcome.7 The Chair recognizes Councilman8 Green.9
Thank you,10 Madam Chair.11 We received copies of the12 reform team reports for various13 departments last summer and I wanted to14 ask some questions about the Priority15 Dispatch System initiative identified by16 the Fire Department's reform team. My17 understanding is that this system will18 help the Department better distinguish19 between emergency and non-emergency20 calls, help improve response times for21 true emergencies, and increase cost22 effectiveness.23 The reform team report noted24 that the Department planned to issue an25 197 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 RFP for an EMS call prioritization system2 in the summer of 2010. Has that RFP been3 issued?4 DEPUTY
No, not5 as of yet, although it is scheduled to be6 released within the next week or two or7 ten days, I believe. It was not released8 last summer.9
Okay. And10 given all the benefits that the reform11 team identified, is there a reason it was12 not released?13 DEPUTY
I just14 didn't feel we were in the process at15 that point of releasing it. We had a lot16 more information we had to get answers17 to. I think we have those answers, and18 that's why it's ready to go. So right19 now it's ready to go and it's going to20 hit the streets.21
What do you22 mean "we didn't have the information"?23 DEPUTY
The24 additional -- we know what the benefits25 198 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 are. We also have to know how to pay for2 it. We also have to know how to schedule3 the rollout. One of the things that we4 were debating internally, quite frankly,5 was even if we ended up having a call6 prioritization, there would have to be a7 public campaign to change how we approach8 and to tell people in the public how9 we're going to change over. I actually10 was in conference with a couple people in11 Syracuse, New York having just gone up12 there to visit, and they actually did it13 in a way that they made an impression on14 me that said, You need to have at least a15 year media campaign to tell people about16 this before you would even start. So --17
So they know18 how to word their calls to still being at19 the top of the list?20 DEPUTY
No.21 Hopefully that we would be able to show22 that they would be able to understand23 that a lot more questions up front are24 going to be asked before you can just get25 199 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 hot-synced from one person to the next so2 that there would be a response. Where3 this has been done well, from what I have4 been able to learn during the fall and5 part of the winter, where it was done6 well, media campaigns have been hand in7 hand, and that's an additional cost that8 we had to anticipate.9
That is12 part of the RFP, to see exactly how much13 people would respond. I'm waiting for14 those. I'll be waiting with obviously15 bated breath to see how various companies16 will handle that and what are they17 bringing forward.18
How much is19 in this year's budget related to the RFP?20 DEPUTY
I don't21 have that offhand. We're doing this -- I22 mean, this is one of those -- this will23 be a combination between either my office24 and/or DOT, since it is a software25 200 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 package that goes along with another2 innovation that DOT would be handling on3 behalf of the Department.4
So really if8 we had program-based budgeting, it would9 be allocated to your department.10 DEPUTY
And is this13 the new deployment software noted in your14 testimony or is that something different?15 DEPUTY
That's16 something else.17 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is not.18 The new deployment software is based on19 GPS.20
So when do21 you expect, if the RFP goes out next22 week, that you will select a vendor?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I could24 not tell you the exact time. I've25 201 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 learned that just now that it is not next2 week, but it is close.3
Well, when4 will it be released?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I couldn't6 tell you. I will get that information7 back to you.8
Okay.9 There's a lot of great ideas out there10 and a lot of room for potential changes11 in efficiency and improvements and we12 seem to talk about the same ones year13 after year without ever having14 implemented them. It's time to get stuff15 off the drawing board and get it into16 practice.17 I think in response to -- I18 don't know whose question, because I was19 not here -- there was testimony that20 basically we're talking about the force21 level for the Fire Department and the22 question was related to why you're23 reducing budgeted positions for24 firefighters, and in response to that25 202 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 question, I think Ms. Rhynhart said that2 the position count would go up again in3 2013.4 I'd like someone to explain5 that in light of the budget detail, which6 shows exactly level funding for the7 entire five years of the Five Year Plan8 for Class 100, which is salaries or wages9 and benefits, at 168,191,934 for FY1210 with the same exact number for FY16.11 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:12 Dave Beatrice again.13 The position number was reduced14 by 98. The funding that went along with15 the 98 positions was taken out of the top16 line where they show the positions but17 added to the overtime level. So the18 funding wasn't reduced.19
Overtime is20 in Class 100 also.21 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:22 Yes, but --23
We have24 168,191,934 in FY12, same thing in '13,25 203 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 same thing in '16.2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 There's two questions. One is why does4 it stay the same all those years, but the5 fact that we reduce the 98 is not part of6 that. The funding -- if we had showed7 the 98 positions, we would have the same8 amount of funding. We just revised the9 funding internal.10
So your11 testimony is that going back up in12 firefighter count in 2013 is the13 Administration's plan?14 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:15 Yes.16
By how many17 positions?18 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:19 By the 98. And the funding for those20 positions would come out of the overtime.21
Okay. So we22 can pay for 98 positions through23 decreased overtime, and that's an24 analysis that the Department has already25 204 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 completed?2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 That's the analysis when we took the --4 when we removed the 98 positions, we just5 moved the corresponding funding down a6 line.7
I hear what8 you're saying. Have you done that9 analysis on paper?10
The cost of15 paying overtime is time and a half, so16 it's more expensive to use overtime.17
Right. So when20 we hire -- we want to hire more21 firefighters. When we hire them, the22 overtime costs would go down. So it is23 cost effective to hire -- more cost24 effective to hire more full-time people.25 205 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
So the real2 question, though, is, if what you're3 saying is true, what is the break point4 for hiring additional firefighters5 versus -- is it only 98? If we hired6 115, would that reduce overtime more and7 would it more than pay for itself?8 That's my question.9 What is the break point for --10 there must be -- at a certain point when11 you hire people, you reach a diminishing12 point of returns because you have to pay13 benefits and other things that you14 wouldn't otherwise have to pay. My15 question is, has the Administration done16 an analysis of how many more firefighters17 would reduce overtime that provides a18 break point for what the appropriate19 number of firefighters is if this is the20 only money available?21
I think that's22 something that we look at. It's not -- I23 don't know if there's a formal analysis24 to hand to you, but the ideal situation25 206 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 would be to get overtime until it's just2 handling sort of the surges.3
So let's4 just take this department, because it's5 something we should really talk about in6 every department. Who did that analysis7 for this department and who informed you8 as to the number -- let's just follow the9 process of how you reached the conclusion10 that 168,191,934 can be the same in FY1211 and FY16 and result in 98 additional12 firefighters and how that that's a13 perfect match with reduced overtime.14
First of all, I15 said that -- I didn't say there was a16 written analysis that someone produced.17 I said it's something that we continually18 do look at. The fire --19
So somebody20 told you, the Budget Office, that that21 was the case?22
Let me just23 finish my train of thought here. That we24 haven't, as you know, been able to hire25 207 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firefighters. We want to get2 firefighters on, full-time firefighters3 on. We have seen -- we want to hire the4 firefighters, reduce the overtime. In5 terms of if we hire faster than the pace6 of attrition, will that lower overtime to7 even a greater degree? I mean, that is8 something that I'm not -- we could look9 at further. I think that the plan now is10 to get new firefighters on as quickly as11 possible, so we're going towards the same12 goal of getting the overtime down.13 In terms of if we hired 30014 firefighters, would that be better than15 hiring just the pace of attrition?16 That's where -- I think that's where17 you're going. I mean, there might be18 some level of it, I'm sure the ideal19 level of the firefighters, but right now20 we're looking at just staffing them up to21 get the overtime down and replace the22 attrition that's happened over the last23 few years.24
But don't25 208 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you think that's an appropriate question2 for us to ask and for the Administration3 to know?4
Yes, definitely.5 Definitely. I think it's a good6 discussion and I think it's something7 that is part of the discussion and the8 analysis that should happen.9
If you're asking12 for what is the ideal size of the City's13 firefighting force in order to keep14 overtime at the lowest possible amount?15
No. The16 specific statement has been made that if17 we hire 98 people by 2013, which is our18 plan, in addition to the force level that19 we have today, which has been testified20 is our plan, then we will save that same21 amount of money through reduction in22 overtime. So my question is, shouldn't23 we look at a matrix of new firefighters24 to reduction in overtime over a series of25 209 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 different levels of new firefighters,2 whether it's just replacing attrition,3 whether it's increasing -- we've had4 attrition the last few years and no new5 firefighters.6
So we've got8 a lot of catching up to do. But there9 should be a point which we can be told10 where we'll have the least overtime and11 the most effective force and all that12 stuff, and it seems to me that if we're13 not -- that should be the basic analysis14 done by every department when coming here15 requesting funds related to numbers of16 positions, and for one of our crucial17 departments, we don't have it today, and18 we haven't had -- it's not like I haven't19 asked this question every year for three20 years.21
I think that22 what you are asking for in terms of23 what's the ideal -- I think you are24 asking for what's the ideal workforce --25 210 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 what is the ideal size of the2 firefighters over through 2016 --3
I'm not.4 I'm not, because we have a size of the5 force. We have -- that's sort of a --6 that's a life-safety, health issue7 combining it with an overtime versus8 full-time position. I'm saying, given9 where we are today, additional10 firefighters versus -- the bigger11 question is important too and it's12 something that you should know the answer13 to and we should know the answer to, but14 the simple question is, how many people15 should we hire to get -- what is the16 break point for additional firefighters17 versus reduction in overtime, where it18 costs us more to have additional19 firefighters than the benefit we get in20 reduced overtime? Where is that break21 point? Is it 98? Is it 150? What's the22 answer to that question? That's what I'm23 asking.24
Okay. I mean, I25 211 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 think at this point, we've been looking2 at staffing up, but I hear what you're3 saying in terms of that level of -- that4 analysis of where is that break point.5
Is that6 something that the Department can7 undertake to provide us prior to the8 close of the budget hearings?9
I think we could10 look at it. We could provide you11 something.12
Thank you.13 Madam Chair, I have more14 questions, but I'll come back to them. I15 don't want to -- unless I don't know if16 other people have questions, so I yield.17
Thank18 you.19 The Chair recognizes20 Councilwoman Sanchez.21
Thank22 you, Madam Chair.23 Good afternoon. Can you for24 the record tell -- we were very pleased25 212 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 obviously in Council to hear that PICA2 was going to undergo the study. Can you3 tell us where that's at?4 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. The5 study was completed. Several of the6 recommendations has started through7 Capital. The exact count on the number8 of roofs, some of the other things that's9 done with the air exchange systems and10 other things, I can get you that exact11 number. We did get a report from12 Capital.13
It would14 be important for us as we look at these15 so that we're not always asking the same16 questions as what was the low-hanging17 fruit that you're going to do this year18 in terms of what the report showed and19 that that be reflected, and then what are20 some of the longer term ones, because21 that would be important for us to know22 that.23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes,24 Councilwoman.25 213 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Going2 back to the situation with the3 paramedics. Just last week I was in the4 hospital for a couple of hours and I5 happened to run into one of the6 paramedics that I know, and we were7 talking a little bit. And this goes back8 to what President Verna was saying. Have9 we done an analysis of what the counties10 are paying and of their work rules and11 requirements versus ours? Because one of12 the things that I hear is that once a guy13 comes in, they have 20 minutes before14 they have to go back out and make another15 run in terms of when they come into the16 hospital and that there's -- the reason17 folks don't want to do that job is18 because then there's paperwork, there's19 filing and everything else.20 So have we done an analysis to21 make sure that we're not requiring much22 more to make this job more unattractive,23 let alone the salary, which would be an24 important piece for us to know?25 214 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I can't2 say that we have a fresh analysis. We3 have looked at it in the past, and what4 we're experiencing now is the fact that5 people do want to come into Philadelphia6 and work, even with the workloads that we7 have. Our system has been recognized not8 only as a very busy system in the9 country, which it has, but also a very10 good system in the country, in that the11 paramedics, their skill levels, the work12 that they do, is evidenced by our13 training of our parajumpers for the U.S.14 Air Force. They come here on a regular15 basis now to train from New Mexico, our16 men and women that's going over into17 Afghanistan and other places to rescue18 those pilots and other folks who are19 down. We actually this year had them20 double the class size. Well, actually21 used two classes. So this will be a22 first.23 We have a lot of work that's24 done with other systems on penetration,25 215 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 trauma and things like that.2 So our system is not looked at3 as a system that's like totally broke4 down, distressed. It's looked and5 regarded as a professional system, does a6 good job but, as most systems, challenged7 with the resource levels because of what8 the economies are. And what we do is, we9 staff at the level that we can at this10 point, and we don't have a problem with11 getting overtime or anything like that.12 I've heard the conversations. We're not13 having a problem with folks just up and14 leaving the system. We do have an15 attrition rate. We do look at the fact16 that some folks leave the paramedic17 system and go into other systems that are18 less stressed, but it's not something at19 this point that we're completely20 concerned about. But we will continue to21 monitor, take a look at it.22
No. I23 agree with you. I mean, all the guys and24 ladies that I've confronted are highly25 216 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 professional. I just think about the2 tension, the pressure for the paramedics.3 Again, I happen to be in the hospital a4 couple of hours and one -- and obviously5 it was Temple, which is a trauma unit,6 but I had like the same team come back7 like four or five times just in that8 little time that I was waiting in the9 emergency room. You know, it was like,10 Whoa. And they're like, Well, we have a11 certain amount of time before we got to12 go out and do another run.13 So I've witnessed it myself14 being in the emergency room four hours15 last week. Tension.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS:17 Councilwoman, we absolutely will continue18 to study that. We are moving forward19 with a PICA study that's going to examine20 the entire Fire Department, EMS as well21 as the fire side.22
And what23 is the status of that?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The RFP25 217 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 has actually been let. So we're looking2 forward to within 30, 60 days hopefully3 getting started.4
And then5 when will the report be back?6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It should7 be somewhere eight months. It could be8 as long as a year. Hopefully as soon as9 eight months.10
Okay.11 The sooner, the better. I mean, we keep12 having these brownout discussions. We'll13 continue to have those discussions. A14 lot of us are waiting on that study so15 that we can look at the department and16 staff it appropriately and fund it. I'm17 glad that this year there is additional18 resources to the Fire Department, because19 that's a start.20 One of the issues that I've21 brought out in the past and I notice this22 year again it's listed as to be awarded23 by RFP, is our collections. We're paying24 $4.8 million for our billing. And I know25 218 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 that many times I've had to call your2 office to personally intervene on our3 billing.4 What is our collection rate and5 what is it that we're missing in terms6 of -- when we talk about resources, this7 is an area that I think we have8 tremendous room for growth in terms of9 our collections. And my experience has10 been with the agency, you know, where11 there's something as simple as a birth12 date unmatch and, therefore, people end13 up getting billed. There's probably a14 lot of uncollected monies out there. Are15 we really going to get this done this16 year?17 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:18 The RFP went out last week.19
Oh, it20 did?21 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:22 Hopefully the new contract will start23 July 1st. Hopefully.24
What is25 219 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 our collection rate right now with that?2 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:3 There's various collections rates.4 There's collections rates for Medicaid5 patients, Medicare. So I don't want6 to -- the total average, I really don't7 want to say off the top of my head, but8 when we get that to you, we would break9 it down by the different collections.10
Yeah. I11 think it's important, because when we're12 out in the community, people are always13 talking about uncollected debt,14 uncollected debt, and I think this is one15 of the areas where there's a lot of money16 to be captured that we're not capturing,17 that then we don't need to have a18 discussion about brownouts, because19 you're bringing in -- and I know this20 goes into the General Fund, but I think21 there's a whole universe of money out22 there that we're not collecting here.23 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER BEATRICE:24 Okay.25 220 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Once we2 have this testing and the list, we talked3 about this year -- and I guess this is4 what Bill's point was. We're going to5 have one class in April of 2011. What is6 the next class after that that we will be7 able to hire?8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: This is9 for the paramedics. We'll be able to10 hire as soon as we can do the next11 process.12
No, no,13 no. Now that we have a new test, once we14 get our new test and we issue it for the15 firefighters.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay.17 Once the new test process is to the point18 where we can hire, we expect that to be19 somewhere around the end of Fiscal Year20 '12, and those firefighters, those men21 and women that are hired during that22 process, they'll go through a full --23 excuse me; yeah, a full-week process --24 no, no. They'll go through a full-week25 221 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 EMS process, then they'll go through a2 subsequent 12-week process where they'll3 actually do the firefighting side, and4 then they'll be getting stations and5 coming into the Philadelphia Fire6 Department service.7
So we'll8 get one new class this fiscal year, and9 then what's the new class after that? Or10 no?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay. One12 of the things that we do is, we look at13 the total number of positions available14 at that time and the total budget15 available, and we will hire as many as16 the budget allows us. We have done in17 the past double classes to catch up with18 the numbers of firefighters that were not19 on the rolls. So we have done double20 classes in the past. So we'll look at21 the budget and the amount that are22 needed.23
And24 while I continue to be encouraged by the25 222 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 lower amount of fires, there have been2 some pretty visible fires, and I know one3 of the issues last year was to cut into4 overtime on the prevention side. Are we5 going to be able to -- I mean, I've6 enjoyed working with your department and7 the folks getting out there. Are we8 going to be doing anything different?9 Because all of these fires, obviously10 people did not have smoke detectors, but11 I know that in terms of getting staff,12 prevention staff, on the ground for13 weekends and evening meetings, there was14 an issue in overtime. Are we going to be15 okay this year with that?16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The issue17 for overtime remains. I monitor the18 overtime pretty closely as related to19 non-operation overtime, that20 administrative type overtime, and what we21 have done is began to transfer some of22 the responsibility to the field units,23 the individual company actually taking on24 the responsibility of the administrative25 223 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 person.2 So we're continuing to do as3 much as we can, but some of the, i.e.,4 expertise from our fire prevention5 division is not there. But our teams6 have been very capable. They've been7 getting out there, knocking on doors, but8 also attending those community meetings,9 setting up tables with fire prevention10 and getting the job done.11 Again, thank you for what12 you've done with us in the community over13 many years, and we appreciate that.14 We've seen a great drop within your15 jurisdiction, and that's what it's all16 about, working to get these fires down.17 We've had some catastrophic18 fires this year. Most of those fires are19 tragic. We stop, we evaluate those20 fires. We see some of the things that21 could have been done to prevent the fire22 in the first place, and we will continue23 to do those things to help our community24 to become even more safer.25 224 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank2 you. Thank you again. I know this is3 hard work.4 Thank you, Madam Chair.5
Thank9 you. Thank you, Madam Chair.10 Good afternoon, Commissioner11 and Fire Department.12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good13 afternoon, Councilwoman.14
I just15 have a few questions. Most of my16 questions have actually been answered.17 I want to thank you for all18 that you do and your department does, and19 I agree with Councilman Green, certainly20 the repair and the upkeep of police and21 fire stations are probably more important22 and those kind of public safety issues23 are more important than tree planting.24 But, Commissioner, can you25 225 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 explain this chart to me on the back? I2 was reading the chart and I was trying to3 understand. Like you have an engine4 number, you have a ladder number and then5 some places there's a battalion chief,6 there's a number. Is that the number of7 the person? I don't really understand8 it.9 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.10 The medic unit is the fourth number. You11 have the engine company, like Engine 2,12 Ladder 3. There's no chief at that13 location, but there is a medic unit at14 that location, which is 31.15
Okay. So16 then if there's a number under battalion17 chief, that's the battalion chief's18 number?19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is20 correct.21
Like22 their badge number?23 COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. That24 is their number as far as the district25 226 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 within which they manage. So that would2 be -- the first one is Engine 5, Ladder3 6, Battalion 11. And Battalion 11 is4 responsible for all of the companies5 within that battalion, of which Engine 56 and Ladder 6 are two.7
Okay. So8 we have, what, about 83 fire stations9 and --10 COMMISSIONER AYERS:11 Eighty-three companies, that is correct.12
And 1113 battalion chiefs?14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is15 correct.16
And17 that's divided up?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.19
Now, for20 example, at Highland Avenue, No. 37,21 Highland Avenue and Shawnee Street, they22 don't have any numbers. So what does23 that mean?24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They're a25 227 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 single-engine company.2
Which3 means they can only fight what type of4 fires?5 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They fight6 all fires. There's just no one else at7 that location based on the layout of the8 Fire Department at this time.9
All10 right. This fire language is not easy to11 understand.12 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I13 apologize.14
They're15 just as capable as any other station,16 correct?17 COMMISSIONER AYERS:18 Absolutely. They are firefighters.19 Those men and women are trained to do20 within their fire safety and education21 district everything that any other fire22 engine would be able to do within their23 fire safety and education district.24
Okay.25 228 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 And I want to thank you guys for the work2 that you did on Carpenter Lane. We3 actually thought that the fire engine4 would actually be in the basement had it5 not been repaired by this time. So thank6 you for all the work that you did there.7 In your testimony, you talked8 about -- I missed some of it. I missed9 some of your answer. I know Councilman10 Rizzo asked you questions and Councilman11 Brian O'Neill asked you questions about12 the EMS units and the staffing from 8:0013 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. What does that really14 mean? Does that mean that, tying it in15 with your last paragraph, does that mean16 that there's always an EMS unit available17 seven days week?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: When you19 say "the last paragraph," are you talking20 about page --21
I'm22 talking about the second bullet on the23 first page.24 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I have25 229 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you. All right. Yes. We have units2 available 24 hours, but the numbers of3 units are -- it varies based on the4 demand from the City. Like during the5 day, we have 50 units available during6 certain periods. It drops down at7 certain other periods, like after 88 o'clock, and during weekends, we have9 sometimes different counts.10 But AQR, what this is about, is11 the new pilot program has one Advanced12 Life Support unit, which is a non-carry13 unit, but they have two paramedics on14 board that respond in a catchment area,15 and in that catchment area, they support16 all of the other units that are currently17 there servicing that community. So18 they'll be in service or out of service19 based on what the demand is.20
Okay. So21 if someone has an emergency and they've22 called 9-1-1, tell me how that exactly23 works, how this AQR -- well, under the24 AQR, how does this ALS -- all these25 230 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 acronyms.2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We3 apologize, but that's our world.4
I know.5 I know.6 COMMISSIONER AYERS: What7 happens is, a call will come into the8 9-1-1. The Fire Communications Center9 will field that call, listen to what10 they're asking for. If the call is11 requesting or requires an Advanced Life12 Support response, what will happen is the13 AQR will be dispatched along with a BLS,14 and they'll get to the scene -- Basic15 Life Support -- they'll get to the scene16 and they'll make the intervention for17 that person. They'll start to do the18 assessment. If it's required that they19 have to do internal intervention, like20 provide fluids or IV or anything like21 that, they'll start it. If it's a heart22 attack, they'll start the CPR. They'll23 put on all of the AED and all of those24 things, and they'll begin to assess the25 231 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 person, package the person.2 The Basic Life Support unit3 will be there as well. They'll be4 responding as well, and they'll be5 preparing to take that person. And as6 soon as the paramedics are finished their7 intervention, they'll put that person on8 the stretcher and take them to the9 hospital.10
Okay. So11 this means -- does any of this mean that12 we have enough EMS units open?13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: This is14 actually a pilot to ensure that we have15 an ALS presence in the catchment area in16 South Philly, in that area, during the17 hours of 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m., making18 sure that they're there, and also to cut19 down the time that it would take to get20 the ALS unit to that location. And right21 now we've seen that the numbers as far as22 how successful they have been, we're23 pleased with the numbers, and we'll be24 looking and seeing what kind of budget we25 232 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 have. Maybe we can implement that in2 some other areas.3
Okay.4 I'm going to probably meet with you one5 on one, but I want to thank you for6 contributing your defibrillators to the7 Rec Department.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: You're9 very, very welcome. The City is very10 welcome. We're glad that we could11 actually make it happen so that we can12 have indeed a safer city.13
Right.14 That's really great. Okay. Thank you.15 Thank you, Madam Chair.16
Thank17 you, Councilwoman.18 What if you get two calls in19 the same area and you have the Basic20 system and the other? I mean, do we --21 what happens if two people -- if you have22 two people in the same area who need23 support? Do we always send both systems24 out to the same location?25 233 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: There is a2 process or an order for the way that we3 send out our Basic units and our ALS4 units, but if we have a situation that5 you just said where the ALS -- the AQR is6 on location with a BLS giving service, as7 soon as the other call comes in, the next8 available ALS, as we do throughout the9 entire City, will be dispatched to that10 person in need. So we'll always be11 dispatching a unit towards the need.12
Thank you.16 Thank you, Madam Chair.17 Good afternoon, gentlemen.18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good19 afternoon, Councilwoman.20
Let me21 thank you for that fire safety 101. It's22 quite informative.23 I want to go back to the24 observations made by Councilman Green,25 234 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 stacked with the concerns raised by2 Councilman Brian O'Neill, and ask the3 question, where are we as a city when it4 comes to best practices in terms of5 dealing with this, what for me is new6 information around false -- would you7 consider them false alarms? Would they8 fall into that category, the9 circumstances described by Councilman10 Brian O'Neill?11 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Some are12 false and some are calls that are13 non-emergent.14 COUNCILWOMAN BROWN:15 Non-emergent.16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Calls that17 are non-emergent does not necessarily18 mean that it's false, does not19 necessarily mean that that that person20 does not need medical care. It's just21 that they don't need the acute medical22 care, like a heart attack, a stroke,23 things like that. What the Councilman24 was speaking to is how we handle people25 235 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 who we know have issued a false alarm or2 a false call.3 We have -- we monitor that, and4 when we see that we get a location or5 people who do that consistently, we have6 a chief that actually goes out, a7 paramedic chief that goes out, talks to8 that person or to their family.9 Sometimes we get it where folks are --10 they have dementia or other issues. We11 try to get resources within the community12 to help them, their church or community13 groups to try to help them with their14 issue. We try to make sure that they are15 receiving hospitalization or things like16 that they may need. But if it's17 persistent to the point where it's clear18 like this person is having a problem --19
Clear20 violation.21 COMMISSIONER AYERS: -- we22 bring their family in and we bring the23 police in, and we let them know that it's24 going to be a problem if they continue25 236 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this action.2
So there's3 no standard operating procedure as such4 or some measurement where you draw the5 line? It's based on just case management6 of a certain --7 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is case8 management, but there is a line that's9 drawn, and I'll have to talk with CQI and10 with those investigators to find out11 exactly what the number is.12
Point of13 information, Madam President.14 I still don't think the15 Commissioner understands my inquiry here.16 I'm talking about the person -- you17 actually, Commissioner, described the18 person perfectly. They have a cold, they19 may have the flu. We should not have an20 engine or a ladder ever at that person's21 house, and people should be made aware of22 it. There should be much more of a23 public information campaign about it.24 But, secondly, every25 237 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 firefighter or paramedic who comes back2 from these runs should have just a3 debriefing quickly. Was that really a4 call that was a 9-1-1 call? And I'm not5 sure I'm making my point to the6 Commissioner. This is not somebody7 that's not serious enough to require8 Advanced Life Support. I'm talking about9 it's not serious enough to be a 9-1-110 call, period. It doesn't mean the person11 is not sick. A whole lot of people are12 sick that don't require 9-1-1, but13 there's a whole lot of people who are14 sick that use 9-1-1, and the firefighters15 and paramedics see it all the time. And16 when you're talking about 10,000 runs17 that some of these people have and we're18 not even through the calendar year, every19 one of these that we can eliminate -- it20 goes beyond what I was talking about21 earlier, which is helping someone else22 who needs help for real and is a real23 9-1-1. But we're wearing down, as we've24 heard many people ask, we're wearing down25 238 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 these and causing burnout with these2 paramedics and firefighters that are3 working on their units, and this is a4 contributor to it.5 So, I mean, I think unless this6 is a top priority, we're going to be7 sitting here next year talking about8 what's a false alarm and what's not.9 It's the equivalent -- when a piece of10 apparatus has to go out there, that's no11 different than if they had to go out to a12 fire, and one is getting treated a lot13 differently than the others, and yet14 we've never had in our worst history had15 the number of false alarms for fires that16 we have for people requesting 9-1-117 services, engine, ladder, medic, as we do18 now. It's off the radar screen, as far19 as I'm concerned, and we got to not only20 put it on the radar screen, but put it21 right at the top. Thank you.22
Do we23 have any indication as to how many such24 calls that are not emergency calls that25 239 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we receive?2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes, we3 do. We call it non-emergent calls, and4 we differentiate that between Advanced5 Life Support calls.6
And7 how many such calls do you think the Fire8 Department receives that are9 non-emergency calls?10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's a11 high percentage, and that high percentage12 is, it's above -- it's around 70 to 8013 percent. And one of the things that14 we've done about that is, we have a15 program which we call Community First,16 and in that program, one of the things17 that we've done with limited resources is18 to print up brochures and pamphlets and19 to take them to every hospital waiting20 room, every community medical service21 office. We've carried them on our units,22 our medic units, to distribute to the23 public. We've had them available at each24 and every firehouse. And what it does,25 240 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 those pamphlets, talk to people about the2 limited availability of our medic units3 for everybody, that the medic unit that I4 might need for my sister or my brother is5 the same medic unit that you might need6 for your sister or your brother, and that7 we need to understand that it's a shared8 limited resource and we have to use it9 properly. That's what that does.10 We've been on the radio with11 it. We've been -- we've had it in the12 paper. We need to be a little bit more13 prominent with those things. So we have14 done those things.15 But the other piece to this is16 the fact that we get emergent calls that17 don't necessarily need the highest level18 of our paramedic care does not mean that19 they are not emergencies and it does not20 mean that we need to just look at an21 emergency call for someone who needs,22 say, to get their finger broke because --23 I mean, excuse me, finger set because24 it's broke. We might look at that as a25 241 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 non-emergent call, but that person needs2 to get to the hospital. In our 9-1-1 --3 excuse me; in our Community First4 program, what we tell them is that they5 could also take a neighbor's car if they6 have a broken finger, that they could7 take a taxi if they have a broken finger.8 But if they have a broken arm, we know9 that we need to take them, because that10 broken arm could be a compound fracture11 that could puncture a vein and we need to12 be there.13 So it's different levels of14 emergency. The system that we talked15 about, which is called Priority Dispatch,16 is one of the things that we've done.17 We're close to getting it in, and what it18 does is, it monitors what the call is.19 It says a series of questions that stacks20 calls versus using every call as first21 in/first out, and that's one of the22 things that we're doing to deal with23 this. Those folks who are doing criminal24 things, we go after them, but the25 242 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 majority of it is education.2
But3 giving these pamphlets to people in the4 emergency room, as I understood you to5 say, I mean, don't you think that's after6 the fact?7 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It is, but8 we get the opportunity at whatever point9 we can to educate our people.10
I11 think there has to be a better way of12 communicating with people.13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The14 citizens in Philadelphia -- again, I15 think the Deputy Mayor talked about the16 package that goes along with this, and we17 acknowledge the Councilman and18 everybody's interest in this and what we19 have to do, but we are moving forward20 with a program that we believe will be21 effective in taking care of this22 non-emergent calls, getting them to other23 places so that our firefighters won't24 have to get on those engines and get out25 243 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 into the street and our paramedics won't2 have to be overwhelmed with sniffly3 noses. We understand the problem, and we4 are addressing it.5
Point of8 information.9 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:10 Councilwoman Brown, I'm sorry.11 Councilman Rizzo has a point of12 information.13
Just 3015 seconds.16 Commissioner, get me once -- I17 forget the expression. You know the18 expression.19
Get me once,22 not twice.23 Why can't we just do something24 that's very commonsense? You identify25 244 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the fact that a person got transported2 that in fact they didn't need. Why don't3 you just simply send them a letter so the4 next time they try to pull the same5 stunt, they're on record that they might6 not get service if the paramedic or unit7 arrives and it's determined that they8 caught their fingernail in the drawer?9 DEPUTY
Thank10 you very much. Everett Gillison, Deputy11 Mayor for Public Safety.12 As I indicated earlier, I heard13 exactly what the Councilman was talking14 about. I understand what he's talking15 about, and I think that we are at the16 point where we have to address it in a17 more proactive way.18 To your question or your19 statement, Councilman Rizzo, the issue20 with the notice -- because I would call a21 letter a notice requirement -- we would22 never be able to put down that you may23 not get service, because now we're going24 to get into legal issues that I don't25 245 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 even want to get into. But, however, I2 think that if we are putting together the3 analysis -- the first year I sat in this4 chair I heard that 75 percent of the5 calls to our EMS system are non-emergent,6 75 percent. Last year we did 233,000.7 We have to do a better job of educating8 the public that there are consequences,9 not just the consequences that we're10 talking about, but to those that11 Councilman O'Neill is referring to, those12 that know how to game the system. I'll13 use your words. We have to speak to14 those people in a way that will not only15 get their attention, but to dissuade them16 from acting in that way.17 I hear it. I think we have a18 way of dealing with it, and we can go19 forward. Just give me an opportunity to20 come back and I'll provide something to21 the Chair.22
Thanks,23 Madam Chair.24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 246 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Councilwoman Brown.2
Thank you,3 Madam President. It's clear that that's4 an issue that matters deeply to all of5 us.6 And if I could offer my two7 cents on the education piece. The8 Department has done an extraordinary job9 with regards to fire prevention, visiting10 senior citizen centers, just a variety of11 places where people gather, and it has12 made an enormous difference when you look13 at where we are now with regards to the14 drop in fires, and that speaks to15 prevention and education.16 So as you seek to roll out your17 next comprehensive strategy, never, ever,18 ever forget, or please remember, our19 schools, because young people can be a20 conscience for our adults as well. And I21 know that visiting your schools is a part22 of what you do anyhow, so add this as23 another leg or layer of information that24 we need to give, not just to seniors and25 247 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 adults but to young people as well,2 because they can have a real role in3 this, coupling with rec centers, et4 cetera, et cetera, churches, the clergy,5 just a comprehensive strategy across the6 board, given that the number is as high7 as it is.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.9 Thank you, Councilwoman.10
You are11 welcome.12 You spoke on the first page of13 your testimony about the FEMA grant.14 What's the status of that? Are we15 fortunate enough to have that again going16 forward since that's a real factor in the17 reduction of fire fatalities?18 COMMISSIONER AYERS: We19 currently have a grant application in,20 and we're waiting to find out the21 results.22
So that's23 a multi-year grant or year-to-year, or24 what?25 248 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: It's2 year-to-year, and this grant, Assistance3 to Firefighter grant that we had, was4 given to maybe five cities across the5 country, which we were one of.6
Okay. So7 that was a prize, if you will.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS:9 Absolutely.10
Given so11 many cities across the country.12 My last question would be, if13 you had to ID or list your one or two top14 achievements or accomplishments for year15 past, what would they be?16 COMMISSIONER AYERS: For the17 past year?18
Yes.19 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I would20 say the opportunity to have our21 firefighters, our men and women, do the22 great work that they did with those smoke23 alarms and knocking on doors and facing24 the challenge of a changing fire service,25 249 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 and really understanding the new2 mentality, fighting the fire with3 prevention, fighting the fire before it4 happens, because that's what we're doing5 now, and I think that they really get it.6 They enjoy it. The community loves them.7 They love the community. They know the8 community more, and they've been an9 integral part of just getting out there10 and being what we've always been, a part11 of the community.12 The fire doors are up now.13 Folks are flowing in and out, asking14 questions, and we've become a group who15 know how to reference the 3-1-1 system16 versus the 9-1-1 system, getting help17 before the tragedy.18
The19 paradigm shift has been all good in every20 way, and I join my colleagues in21 acknowledging -- commending you on this22 major milestone, the third lowest number23 of fire fatalities in recorded history,24 and the new paradigm where fire25 250 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 departments, fire stations are a real2 face, engaged and integrated into the3 community.4 COMMISSIONER AYERS:5 Absolutely.6
Thank you7 very, very much.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Thank you.9
Thank12 you.13 Commissioner, I think in just14 having brief discussions with a couple of15 my colleagues, we're really not too16 clear, and maybe you could explain it to17 us a little more in detail, what the AQRI18 is or so that we fully understand what19 that is.20 DEPUTY
Let me21 see if I can help. Deputy Mayor Everett22 Gillison.23 Madam President, the AQR24 vehicle is a pilot program. Think of it25 251 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 this way: We wanted to see how quickly2 we could get advanced medical services to3 a certain geographic area and measure and4 obviously see what that would actually do5 to our response times, by having a roving6 unit, one that we would be able to be7 always in contact with through GPS8 locations and dispatch, in this catchment9 area. We're not running them part of the10 entire system. So all we're doing is11 augmenting. We're not taking away from12 anything we were currently doing. We13 added one more unit, and it's a roving14 unit. It's in a Ford Explorer. So it's15 not in a box. It's Ford Explorer with16 two guys, men or women, in it as17 paramedics.18 When a call comes out in this19 geographic area, they go, and they can20 get there faster because smaller unit.21 It's based on an Army mentality of22 getting them there as quickly as we can23 in a small, effective unit, stopping --24 getting that quick intervention. And25 252 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 then the carry unit, if they come on and2 they need to be carried, the carry unit3 will go. These guys scrub back up and4 then they go right back out on the5 street. So it's constant pressure to get6 to people as quickly as possible. The7 idea is, let's get some data to see if8 those kinds of units can help us in the9 City of Philadelphia.10 We have also found out as a11 result of doing this project that12 sometimes the unit will get to the scene13 and it can call off the BLS unit faster,14 because they're not unit. They can15 actually handle what's needed, handle16 what's wrong with the citizen, it's not a17 carry situation. We can call that person18 off. So constant communication in19 realtime. We are handling things and20 we're getting data to see how we can help21 the system going forward.22 So don't imagine that it's23 something out there that's instead of.24 We took our regular paradigm of what we25 253 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 were giving by way of resources and we2 added this to see how could a smaller,3 lighter, more quicker unit can get to4 places and will it be able to get us out5 of situations we don't need to be in and6 situations that we do need to be in, how7 fast we got there, get that intervention,8 run those lines and then make sure that9 the BLS that would have normally10 responded get them in and get them out,11 and this unit can then go right back on12 the street. That was the question, and13 we're still getting the data from this14 pilot as we go forward. So I hope that15 that --16
I get17 back to my question, I guess, an hour18 ago. Is this the same as --19 DEPUTY
--22 what the Commissioner called rover last23 year?24 DEPUTY
Yes.25 254 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 We were talking about a roving unit that2 we would have, but it was a larger -- we3 were looking last year at a larger pass.4 This year we're just talking about using5 a smaller geographic area that we kept it6 in there.7
All12 right. Now, can they administer --13 DEPUTY
Okay.18 Once they do that, then the patient is19 transferred?20 DEPUTY
If21 you're doing those kinds of running the22 lines of oxygen and medical and23 everything else, the BLS unit, the big24 carry unit, would come in and they would25 255 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 just give that person -- the paramedics2 would just hand that off to the BLS for3 transport to a local hospital.4
The12 Commissioner seems to have something.13 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. The14 Advanced Life Support team that are on15 location stays by that patient's side16 until that patient is transported to the17 hospital, no different than if this was18 an ALS unit with the carry unit. The19 difference is that this unit is going to20 get there more rapidly. So the patient21 never loses the ALS care even though it's22 a BLS unit on scene.23
ALS24 transports them?25 256 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
No.2 COMMISSIONER AYERS: The BLS3 unit is two firefighters. AQR is two4 paramedics. When the medic unit comes on5 the scene to an ALS case, they just6 switch and the paramedic gets in with the7 patient in the BLS, which is now actually8 instantly converted to ALS, and takes9 them to the hospital.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 That's an explanation.12
Madam13 President?14 COMMISSIONER AYERS: I'm sorry15 I took a long time to get to that.16
Point of17 information.18 The first on the scene -- or19 ALS, they can do intervenous and other20 things. They're turning it over to21 somebody -- this is just a question.22 They're turning it over to somebody who23 can't do that, who is not qualified to do24 those kinds of things.25 257 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER AYERS: No. They2 never turn them over. If it's an ALS3 run, the Advanced Life Support team,4 those paramedics, they're going to stay5 with that person, but they're going to6 use the firefighters/EMTs --7
Oh,8 they're actually going to the --9 COMMISSIONER AYERS:10 Absolutely. They're just using their11 vehicle.12
In the13 last five iterations of this, they were14 going somewhere else because they're fast15 and quick and they can cover other16 scenes. It was only the BLS doing the17 transport.18 DEPUTY
Yes.23 The whole idea is if it's necessary. The24 idea is that we're trying to get the25 258 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 data, because a lot of the times what2 we're finding is, we get these guys out3 there, they treat, they don't need to4 really get in. They could actually say5 this is not something that's needed to6 be. We can leave it to the BLS to carry,7 and these guys can scrub and go back out.8 Sometimes we don't have that option.9 Sometimes they need that care, so then10 they just get into the unit and then they11 go.12
I think we13 covered a whole lot with the followup.14 Thank you, Madam President.15 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:16 You're welcome.17
I got to ask18 the question.19 In a case where that rover20 decides that he needs to go with the21 patient to the hospital, what do you do?22 Put the keys of the other unit under the23 mat? What do you do?24 DEPUTY
Yeah.8 COMMISSIONER AYERS: They9 follow them to the hospital. The10 firefighters drive it and they follow11 them to the hospital.12
Oh, okay.13 Thank you.14 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:15 Councilman Green.16
I'm still17 not sure I understand that, but I don't18 see the point in discussing it any19 further. I mean, the Deputy Mayor talked20 about trying to look at the data and21 analyzing it, and I don't know what data22 he's talking about or how data is kept on23 calls like that, but I think you can24 expect questions during the course of the25 260 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 year on that data, how it's being2 collected and how you're measuring3 whether or not this is more or less4 expensive, because the description of it5 doesn't sound like it could be saving us6 a whole lot of money, because you now7 have a bunch of people going on every8 call to the hospital if the BLS got there9 first and that's what was needed. So --10 okay.11 Both the Five Year Plan and12 your testimony noted the increasing13 number of calls for emergency services,14 76 percent of which, so three-quarters of15 all calls, end up in transport to the16 hospital. So if BLS units show up, it's17 more than likely that somebody is going18 to need to go to the hospital.19 At any rate, calls have risen20 by 50,000 calls per year over the past21 decade. That kind of increase suggests a22 systematic problem that we need to23 address through a cross-departmental24 approach. And in much of the earlier25 261 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 testimony by the Administration, they2 were trying to look at cross-departmental3 approaches. It's something that the4 former Managing Director was very focused5 on, trying to eliminate silos and work6 across departments.7 So how are we analyzing the8 root causes of this increased EMS calls9 and hospital transports to try to10 determine what could help address them,11 such as access to primary and12 preventative care, and to what extent are13 we looking at models like the Camden14 Coalition of Healthcare Providers, which15 is using a data-driven approach to16 deliver better care to residents and also17 drive down costs?18 I don't know if you know the19 answer to that question today, but it's20 certainly something that I'm going to21 want to cover with Health and others when22 they come in, because it seems like just23 responding to people who are constantly24 carried by our ambulances to the hospital25 262 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We2 should be reaching out to those people,3 getting them priority on appointments4 into our health centers so that they can5 address their medical problems in a way6 that doesn't result in all these calls.7 DEPUTY
You're8 absolutely right, and it's something that9 Deputy Mayor Schwarz and I, along with10 members of the team, have been looking at11 and trying, under Camille Barnett -- she12 was one of those that would sit in on our13 meetings -- trying to figure out which14 are different ways that we could deal15 with going forward. That's something16 that the Deputy Mayor and I are both17 looking at. We're actually looking at18 different ways of responding to carry19 only kind of matters, thinking outside20 the box. A lot of times citizens, we're21 finding just from some of the data that22 our CAD system is producing for us now23 that just says that this is a carry24 that's not emergent but just needs to get25 263 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to the hospital, what's a different way2 of getting there is something that I'm3 considering, and even working with the4 taxicab association, maybe getting a flat5 rate to say that if a person needs to get6 to the hospital and we can figure out the7 way to get the reimbursements, because8 all of this usually comes down to9 understanding the Medicaid, Medicare10 reimbursement rate in order to get11 someone to the hospital. All of that is12 part and parcel of this discussion.13 So, yes, I'll be glad to sit14 down. I can include you in some of that15 information. That would be great.16
Yeah. I17 just -- I know you say you and Deputy18 Mayor Schwarz are talking. I'd be19 interested in what solutions you've come20 up with to solve these problems, if any.21 DEPUTY
As of22 right now, there aren't any solutions to23 this. This is actually part and parcel24 of a review of even trying to figure25 264 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 out -- it started as a result of what2 does the federalization of healthcare3 come in. So we don't have a solution to4 offer at this time.5
Okay. The6 EMS pilot program you mention in your7 testimony -- no. That's all AQR8 questions. I'm going to skip them.9 The 280 budgeted fire service10 paramedic positions, 73 were unfilled as11 of December. The vacancy allowance for12 the EMS division is 920,000 and the13 requested salary spending is 120,00014 lower than FY11.15 How many currently vacant EMS16 positions could the Department fill this17 year given the requested appropriation18 and the vacancy allowance for those19 positions?20 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:21 Councilman, Everett Gillison, Deputy22 Mayor.23 Obviously we have the 24 that24 are going in next week and we are trying25 265 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to get -- now that we are trying to staff2 up on a rolling basis, we're hoping to3 get the remaining in this year.4
You can't5 because you have a vacancy allowance of6 920,000.7 DEPUTY
I've8 been -- I haven't been told that I can't9 get -- if I get another 50 paramedics, I10 have not been told that I can't get those11 in. So I will --12
Based on13 your requested budget, that's impossible.14 DEPUTY
If you could17 crunch the numbers and provide it to the18 Chair, I would appreciate it.19 DEPUTY
Or you'd22 have to hire them all on the last day of23 the year, would be another way you'd be24 within your budget and meet your vacancy25 266 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 allowance requirement.2 There's been a lot of back and3 forth in the press and other places about4 the effective brownouts in the Fire5 Department, and it looks -- there have6 been increased firefighter injuries, I7 think, in stations or around stations as8 a result of -- if the first responder was9 a brownout station, more firefighters10 have gotten injured than sort of a11 regular call.12 Do you have -- we talked a lot13 about data. Do you have statistics on14 firefighter and civilian injuries,15 looking just at stations where there was16 a brownout compared to stations where17 there's not a brownout and then comparing18 that to past years where there were no19 brownouts?20 DEPUTY
I can21 tell you that we have and we have been22 following closely firefighter injuries23 and civilian injuries. I can give to the24 Chair the analysis of what effect, if25 267 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 any, there would be with brownouts. But2 I would disagree that there's been any3 increase in firefighter injuries, but I4 will provide the data to the Chair.5
We just8 have a general -- something that the9 Commissioner has been giving me on a10 monthly basis on firefighter injuries. I11 don't have that with me today.12
So it13 doesn't disaggregate, though, injuries on14 jobs where the initial call would have15 come from a browned-out station?16 DEPUTY
It does17 not. I'd have to go back and take a look18 at that.19
Well, it23 seems to me that that's the analysis that24 has to be done to try to do some kind of25 268 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 apples to apples analysis.2 DEPUTY
But you'll5 go back and do that analysis and provide6 it to the Chair?7 DEPUTY
That would9 be helpful.10 Excuse me for one second.11 We just received vacant and12 unfilled position data from Finance and13 others. So we have a lot of questions on14 vacant and unfilled positions. What15 we're going to do is go through and16 compare what questions we had prepared17 with the new data we have, and if we have18 any further questions in that regard, we19 will send a written request.20 Thank you.21 DEPUTY
Thank24 you very much.25 269 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 I guess the more testimony we2 receive, the more questions come to mind.3 Commissioner, with people4 getting to know about the non-emergency5 calls and calling 9-1-1, has there any6 thought been given to having some7 education on this through the public8 service announcements on TV? I thought9 that's what we had this TV station for.10 COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, we11 will absolutely look into it. We have12 not had a lot of television coverage. We13 have had some radio coverage that's been14 limited. And we'll take that under15 advisement to get it done.16
And17 perhaps people would come to the18 realization that maybe there would be a19 minimum fee attached to a non-emergency20 call. If you have a hang finger and21 you're calling 9-1-1, that there would be22 a minimum fee attached and it would not23 be waived. I mean, we've got to do24 something. I think we come here every25 270 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 year and hear the same issues, and yet2 there's never been a positive step taken3 forward to address it. I'm not saying4 all, but most of the complaints are still5 very much alive.6 DEPUTY
Madam7 President, I understand your frustration.8 The one thing that I would always bring9 as a statement is that the Department has10 done the 9-1-1 for emergency only. The11 Commissioner has a whole lot of those12 brochures that he goes to place to place.13 We're on the radio getting it out and14 getting the information out. But are we15 on Channel 3, 6, 10 and 29? No.16
No.17 We have Channel 64, which is the public18 service station.19 DEPUTY
I've22 never heard anything mentioned on radio23 about this. I'm not saying it's not on24 radio, but I've never heard anything. I25 271 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 don't know if anybody else has. But2 there -- and just to take the brochure to3 the emergency room, it's after the fact.4 DEPUTY MAYOR GILLISON:5 Obviously we have to get out ahead of it.6 We agree. This is not one of those7 things that we are in disagreement of.8 What we're trying to do is make sure that9 people understand the magnitude of the10 issue, understand that there are limited11 resources and that we're trying to use12 them in the most effective way possible.13 Is there something we can do better?14 Absolutely, we will. That's where we are15 and that's what I can promise you as16 Deputy Mayor for Public Safety.17 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:18 That's why the paramedics burn out and19 they look elsewhere for another job.20 Okay. Any other questions?21 Councilman Green.22
Thank you,23 Madam Chair. I actually don't have24 additional questions for this department,25 272 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 but I just want to note somewhere for the2 record that I was looking forward to the3 Prisons Department testimony.4 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:5 They're coming.6
I'm going to7 have to miss that, as I have an event at8 5 o'clock. And so I want to apologize9 for that. I think Prisons has worked10 very well in CJAB, Criminal Justice11 Advisory Board, has worked with all the12 stakeholders, the DA, Police, Courts, et13 cetera, to try and reduce the cost of14 that system. It is still my contention15 that if we continue on the current16 course, the additional two and a half17 million that the Prisons say they can18 reduce from the budget this year, which19 then just increases sort at a regular20 rate of inflation for the next five21 years, is too much in the Five Year Plan,22 and within two or three years, we can23 close a prison in the City of24 Philadelphia if we keep up the progress25 273 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we've made, which will save another 25,2 30, 40 millions dollars a year in that3 department.4 I think the Commissioner has5 done a good job. I know they don't want6 to budget in something that dramatic, but7 those would be questions I ask, and I8 look forward to seeing what questions are9 asked and what the responses were from10 Prisons. If maybe the Commissioner would11 be kind enough to address that question12 when he is finished his testimony or when13 he's finished hearing from other people,14 I'd appreciate it.15
)20 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:21 Seeing none, thank you very much. )7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 Commissioner, you've been extremely9 patient. 13 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Good14 afternoon, Council President Verna,15 members of City Council. I am Lou16 Giorla, Prison Commissioner. 21 The Fiscal Year 2012 budget22 request is for the second year lower than23 the year before. 12 The average daily population13 fell from a historic high of 9,321 in14 Calendar 2009 to 8,274 in 2010. 21 Recreation and programming areas modified22 for use as housing units at the Detention23 Center have been vacated. 3 This move allowed the Prisons to4 depopulate the Cannery, a female housing5 site on Torresdale Avenue. 18 This year the Prisons and the19 Courts instituted a remote printing20 process. Paper documents such as21 sentencing orders formerly generated at22 court and delivered by courier are now23 electronically sent to the prison,24 directly from the courtroom in some25 277 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 cases. In many cases, this simple2 information exchange took days. 4 A second initiative to automate5 the workflow of parole petitions is in6 the planning phase. When completed, this7 joint effort of the Courts, Defender8 Association, District Attorney's Office,9 Adult Probation and the Prisons will10 reduce the time it takes to review and11 process county parole petitions filed on12 behalf of prison inmates. 16 In another process improvement,17 the Prisons will expand the use of video18 stations located at each facility in the19 State Road complex. Increasing the20 number of hearings held via video will21 reduce the necessity to transport many of22 the hundreds of inmates scheduled for23 court daily. 3 During the 2012 fiscal year,4 the Prison System will implement an5 electronic health record system for6 inmates. 16 Four -- and I have to correct this. Five17 of our six Prison System facilities hope18 to renew their accreditation with the19 National Commission on Correctional20 Healthcare this year on schedule. The21 other facility is also accredited, but22 not yet due for renewal. 5 In 2010, the Prisons again6 awarded over 300 General Education7 Diplomas. 17 Meanwhile, the other end of the18 educational spectrum is not being19 ignored. 23 Working with the Pennsylvania24 Horticultural Society, the Defender25 280 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Association and the Office of2 Reintegration Services for Ex-Offenders,3 the Prisons transformed our in-house4 horticultural program into a community5 vocational training and employment6 program. 15 As Councilmembers may be aware,16 the Prison System ranks second among City17 agencies in the total amount of18 contracted services. The Prison System19 is committed to supporting the20 Administration's goal of 25 percent21 minority, woman and disabled-owned22 business participation in City23 contracting. During the last full24 reporting cycle, Fiscal Year 2010, the25 281 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Prisons had a participation rate of 292 percent. 4 Although the Prisons are not5 considered a revenue-producing6 department, certain initiatives help7 defray a portion of our costs. Room and8 board fees from the Work Release Program9 generate $163,397. 18 Thankfully, we have moved in the other19 direction. 24 Thank you for this opportunity25 282 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to testify. I will be pleased to answer2 any questions you or the Councilmembers3 may have. 7
Thank8 you very much, and thank you for the9 wonderful job you're doing.10 On of your testimony,11 you mention that inmate telephone calling12 raises $1.3 million. Can you tell us13 where this appears in the14 Administration's revenue estimates?15 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: That is a16 portion of the telephone calling contract17 that DOT administers. It's combined with18 public telephone calling at the Airport.19 So it's not listed on the Prison's budget20 as a revenue item, but it's combined21 with -- our portion is 1.3 million.22
I'm23 sorry. It's provided with?24 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: It's25 283 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 provided in the DOT. I believe it's in2 the DOT revenue section. It's a combined3 contract.4
Thank5 you.6 On of your budget7 detail, you are requesting $63.5 million8 for prisoner healthcare. Here we go9 again. Why are these costs not going10 down as you reduce and stabilize your11 census population?12 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Despite13 the fact that our census population has14 declined, our number of admissions has15 stayed relatively stable. We're still16 admitting close to 35,000 inmates a year.17 A large portion of our medical costs are18 front-loaded. Most inmates are released19 within the first three to four weeks. We20 do diagnostic testing, mental health21 evaluations, prescribe medication, and22 everybody who is released gets a 15-day23 supply of medications that they're on24 when they leave.25 284 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 During the last fiscal year,2 our costs rose about a little more than3 half a percent. There was a slight labor4 increase, labor cost increase, included5 in there. And if you want a more6 detailed explanation, we can send it to7 you.8
I was9 going to ask that question. When an10 inmate or a prisoner comes in, is it11 mandated or do they automatically receive12 a physical?13 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Everyone14 who comes in gets a physical screening.15 We perform a series of tests, vital16 signs, weight, ask them about any chronic17 conditions. We run a check when we can18 on those with local pharmacies to19 determine if they're on any current20 medications that they may not be21 identifying. We try and supplement any22 medications they may have. If they23 display any behavioral health issues,24 they're immediately referred to our25 285 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 behavioral health staff. Some cases they2 may be placed in our licensed inpatient3 unit in an emergency basis and evaluated4 there.5 But everybody who comes through6 the door, with the exception of returning7 weekend inmates, gets an evaluation. We8 do history and physicals sometime out if9 the inmate stays in custody, and we do10 annual physicals if they stay past a11 year.12
Well,13 you answered my question.14 Can you give us a breakdown of15 the medical costs between sentenced16 prisoners and detainees?17 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Based on18 our --19
If20 you don't have it, you could always send21 it to us.22 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: No. I23 have it. I know you asked this earlier24 on in the hearings. The average --25 286 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
It2 seems like we ask the same questions3 every year.4 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Well, the5 average detentioner inmate detainee costs6 us about $8,000 a year, 7,900 or so in7 medical costs, and the average sentenced8 inmate about $11,000 a year. Sentenced9 inmates, of course, stay longer on10 average. And that's based on our average11 daily population. It's not broken down12 by each of those 35,000 admissions.13
What14 percentage of your population are15 detainees?16 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: About 7817 percent.18
And19 on the average, can you tell us how long20 a detainee stays?21 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We22 haven't -- we measure length of stay23 overall, males and females. That24 includes detentioners and sentenced25 287 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 inmates, and we're trying to construct2 breakdowns of those statuses. But the3 average male inmate stays about 89 days.4 The average female inmate about 57 days.5
Why6 does it take so long?7 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Well, the8 court -- you know, how cases are9 processed is one of the things. When I10 mention about automating parole petitions11 is another one. A lot of the paperwork12 transfer among agencies and departments13 increases the length of stay. Sometimes14 court continuances increase the length of15 stay. A lot of the people we have in16 custody, the numbers of more serious17 offenders is growing, what we call closed18 custody or maximum security inmates.19 They take longer to get to trial. They20 usually have the more complicated cases21 and it takes longer to conclude. Several22 of them are repeat offenders, so they may23 have multiple holds to deal with.24 One of the reasons our25 288 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 population has declined is because the2 courts have initiated a couple of3 programs that consolidated those cases,4 but you may run into someone who is a5 violent offender and may be a multi-state6 offender. So they may have to conclude a7 case in another jurisdiction or have us8 satisfy that before our case is9 adjudicated. So it's the multiple holds10 that really have an effect on the length11 of stay.12
Page13 19 of the detail shows that you expect to14 spend $13.7 million for inmate housing.15 With the reduction in your population,16 why do you still need these housing17 contracts?18 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Many of19 our facilities, particularly20 Curran-Fromhold, are beyond their21 capacity and we still have triple22 celling. Some of our facilities -- I23 should say that we've been beyond24 capacity for quite some time, and it is25 289 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 beyond our designed capacities and beyond2 some of our modified capacities for3 sometime. So that's what necessitated4 these. We still need them because we5 haven't created enough space in the State6 Road complex to accommodate all these7 inmates.8 We only have, I think, about9 400 inmates outside our facilities right10 now. That number was much higher a11 couple of years ago. We've drawn those12 down as carefully as we can over time,13 because we have custody classifications14 for our main facilities. Not all inmates15 are suitable for all facilities. It16 would be easy if we could pull them all17 back and just put them in one facility18 together, but professional standards,19 legal liability, custody classifications20 prohibit that.21 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:22 Getting back to the detainees, when23 they're arraigned, is that by television?24 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: In some25 290 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 cases they're arraigned by CCTV at the2 police sites. Usually they're not3 arraigned with us. The video4 capabilities that we have are for5 extradition hearings, state intermediate6 punishment hearings, Traffic Court7 hearings and in some cases status8 hearings with the judges. We're looking9 to expand those, but the CCTV that's10 being done for arraignments is done by11 the Police Department.12
Thank13 you very much, and, again, I think you're14 doing a great job.15 The Chair recognizes Councilman16 Greenlee.17
Thank18 you, Madam President.19 Good afternoon, Commissioner.20 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Good21 afternoon.22
I concur23 certainly with the Council President's24 comments on the job you're doing up25 291 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 there. Thank you. I just had a couple2 of quick questions on the education3 aspect that you talked about.4 Who actually runs these5 programs? Who does the training for the6 inmates as far as the GED classes and/or7 the literacy, the basic literacy8 programs?9 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We have a10 number of different employees that11 conduct those programs. Pennypack House12 School, which is an arm of the School13 District, supplies high school education14 to our juvenile inmates and adult basic15 education and GED preparation to some16 adults, and they do summer classes. We17 have an automated computer, somewhat18 independent study program called PLATO,19 Program Logic and Training, that is20 another GED preparatory program.21 The basic literacy is going to22 be done by a group of correctional23 officers that we're going to train as24 monitors, and it's going to be25 292 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 supplemented with inmates who graduated2 to GED. They'll be used as tutors and3 mentors.4
That's5 great.6 Do you have a feel or any idea7 how many of the inmates that go from --8 that don't meet the original9 qualifications for the GED classes when10 they go through these basic literacy11 programs how many move up and actually12 get a GED?13 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We're not14 sure yet, because we're just in the15 infancy stage with that program. What we16 did was, we conducted -- we had some17 funds available, so we conducted some18 diagnostic testing, did a snapshot of our19 sentenced population. We tried to get20 500 inmates, but many of them declined to21 participate. We ended up with 271. Of22 those, 30 percent tested below, I would23 say, below fourth grade level in reading24 and math, some a lot lower. So that was25 293 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 the impetus for the basic literacy2 program.3
And I4 think you answered the other question I5 was going to have. This is obviously a6 voluntary program, right?7 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: For8 detentioner inmates, it is. Some9 inmates, sentenced inmates, are10 stipulated by the court to enroll in GED11 classes. They get priority, because we12 follow the court orders first, but13 everything else is voluntary.14
And last15 thing. I know when Community College was16 in here, they talked about the program17 that you had up there. How many inmates18 have participated in that?19 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Right now20 15. It's the first program. What we did21 was, we selected a cohort. We house them22 at the same facility on the same units so23 they would be able to more or less24 participate in classes and study25 294 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 together. Thirteen of the 15 completed2 the course. Two were released prior to3 the completion of the course and have4 enrolled in full-time classes at5 Community College.6
That's7 great. Okay. That's good news. Thank8 you. Thank you very much.9 Thank you, Madam President.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 You're welcome.12 The Chair recognizes Councilman13 Rizzo.14
Thank you.15 Thank you, Madam Chair.16 Again, not just you, but the17 leader is the one that gets the most18 praise, but what a great organization of19 people that you have working with you20 there. Nobody knows better than me how21 hard --22 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I'd like23 to thank you on behalf of all the men and24 women of the Philadelphia Prisons. Thank25 295 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you.2
Real3 important.4 You know, refresh my memory.5 The last time we had an incident at the6 jail, there was a complaint that the7 community wasn't notified, and I8 understand that to ring a siren, you had9 to get to the state to give you10 permission, from what I understand, to11 ring the siren.12 Well, again, we in government13 sometimes need to get with it. If you go14 out to Drexel or you go to Penn or any of15 the universities, if there's an incident,16 they send text messages to everybody in17 the community.18 Would you consider -- and I19 understand there are services that20 provide where you could solicit the21 community to enroll in a text message.22 Even though the sirens are great, maybe23 some day we can get away from having to24 actually ring a siren in the community.25 296 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 One of my staff told me they2 understood that you had to get some3 approval from the Commonwealth to be able4 to sound a siren whenever there was an5 incident.6 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: The7 information is somewhat correct,8 Councilman. There is legislation pending9 which would require all county10 correctional facilities to have at least11 a siren and engage in any electronic12 means to notify the surrounding13 community. The incident you referred to14 happened on October 12th, 2010 when an15 inmate escaped from Curran-Fromhold.16 Since that time, we've met with all the17 adjoining communities that abut our18 complex. One of the main requests from19 the Holmesburg Civic Association was the20 institution of a siren alarm or whoop21 siren alarm that we had previously in22 place and was discontinued in 2001.23 We reinstituted that alarm. We24 began testing that on February -- around25 297 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 February 11th, and it's been -- it's in2 use. It was demonstrated on April the3 1st, Friday, April the 1st. It's tested4 every first Friday of the month at noon.5 In addition, we've taken6 advantage of the RSAN system offered by7 the City's Office of Emergency8 Management. We've instituted an internal9 level text message notification for our10 internal staff, high-ranking staff. We11 also -- there is an opt-in sign-up12 registration that can take place by13 e-mail to receive text messages. It's14 Ready Notify Philadelphia. We have about15 100 subscribers at this point. We've16 been out to all the -- we've been back17 out to the community organizations to18 publicize this. We brought the Office of19 Emergency Management.20 We try to meet all their21 requests. We have instituted a message22 hotline, so when somebody hears the23 alarm, they can call in and find out what24 the situation is, even if they aren't25 298 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 registered for the text messaging. So2 hopefully we won't have to use the3 system, but -- and this kind of meets all4 the stipulations of the upcoming5 legislation.6
Well, I'm7 glad to hear that, but, again, like the8 President said earlier, we need to tell9 people about these opportunities and our10 TV station. Believe it or not, there's11 people that actually look at that, and12 the price is right.13 So I think that we should14 encourage as many people -- you're15 telling me that the average public at16 this point cannot get on to the Ready17 Notify?18 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes. Any19 member of the public --20
But get a21 prison alert?22 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes.23 There's a prison -- there's several24 registries on that website, one for25 299 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 SEPTA, one for the Office of Emergency2 Management, I believe for Philadelphia3 Police and Fire, and also Prisons. The4 Prisons registry is relatively new. It's5 only been in place for about a month.6
And you will7 absolutely report on that if there's an8 incident that the public needs to know?9 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Oh, we10 already have. As a matter of fact, a11 couple weeks ago we had a mistaken report12 that an inmate had been seen in the13 community, and we activated that for the14 public. We sent that out as a public15 registry. It was a mistaken report. We16 confirmed that it was inaccurate, but we17 sent it out initially just to warn the18 community.19
Well, that's20 good to hear, because I was a bit21 troubled by the fact that the community22 wasn't as aware as they should have been23 on that particular incident, and it24 sounds like you've done a lot to make it25 300 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 better for the future.2 I was very impressed when I was3 out at one of the universities and there4 was a pocketbook snatch on Walnut or5 Chestnut, and within seconds, every6 student in that area had a cell phone and7 got a text alert to be looking for a8 particular individual and also be9 careful. So I guess that's the same10 thing. Can that go -- since I carry a11 BlackBerry, I just assume that that's the12 same with a cell phone?13 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Yes, sir.14 It can go via a canned cell phone15 message. It can go via a text message.16 There's also a service that the Streets17 Department uses to notify people when18 trash pick-up is delayed or trash pick-up19 has been cancelled. It sends out --20
The one I21 get the day after.22 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Like23 robocalls. We were using that system,24 too. When we initially started the25 301 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 alarm, we blanketed a one-mile radius2 around our complex. We called everyone3 an hour before the alarm went off to tell4 them what it was. Now, that was in5 addition to publications in the Northeast6 Times and the Daily News.7
Terrific.8 It sounds like you're really ahead of the9 game here. Great.10 Thank you, Madam Chair.11 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:12 You're welcome.13 The Chair recognizes Councilman14 Goode.15
Thank you,16 Madam President.17 Good afternoon, Commissioner.18 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Good19 afternoon.20
Just a few21 questions.22 Beyond healthcare and23 court-mandated matters, what is your24 current assessment process for inmates,25 302 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 whether they are sentenced or detainees?2 What type of things do you assess? What3 do you need to know about them as they4 come in?5 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We look6 at their medical history, their mental7 health history --8
Beyond9 medical.10 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: -- their11 education, their social connections with12 the community, whether or not they're13 married, whether or not they ever served14 in the military. We try and make sure15 that if they're available, they have16 information that will allow them to try17 and make bail. And if they're sentenced,18 within a few days we refer them to our19 Inmate Services providers, who begin to20 work on educational and work programs.21
I'm really22 going in the direction of education and23 work programming, but even more broadly,24 what sort of assessment criteria do you25 303 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 have related to reentry efforts?2 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Right now3 our Inmate Services case managers, our4 social workers, make referrals to5 programs that they think are appropriate.6 Over the last year or, I guess, probably7 about a year and a half, we've had a CPR8 program for sentenced inmates, Community9 and Personal Responsibility, that the10 Reintegration Services for Ex-Offenders11 administers and teaches in our12 facilities. That's been coupled with a13 few of our existing in-house programs,14 like GED, Roots to Reentry and some other15 work programs, so that more or less it16 offers some life skills, some job17 preparation and really some post-release18 preparation for the inmates.19
What portion20 of your budget is dedicated to reentry?21 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I think22 $1.6 million directly. We direct fund to23 RISE, but the other efforts that I24 referred to, the educational efforts,25 304 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 they're separate from that and they're2 funded as well.3
Well, let me4 ask a different question, because you5 said you fund RISE.6 COMMISSIONER GIORLA:7 Partially.8
I guess the9 question is, what percentage of your10 budget that's actually spent within the11 Prisons is spent on reentry? And I'll12 ask the question to you and the Deputy13 Mayor, along with some perspective on how14 much of reentry actually needs to not15 just begin but actually take place within16 prison.17 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I'd have18 to compute those figures and supply them19 to you, Councilman, because it's blended20 in with a lot of our other services, from21 everything from health education, you22 know, and HIV education to GED, to23 vocational training, to referrals to24 RISE. It's woven in and out of our25 305 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 operations.2
Okay. I3 guess I'll ask the question in a4 different way, and still await a written5 answer. Let's not call it reentry but6 call it preparation for reentry. What is7 the minimum requirement in terms of8 preparation for reentry, aside from9 someone who is having served their10 sentence?11 DEPUTY
Thank12 you, Councilman. Everett Gillison,13 Deputy Mayor for Public Safety.14 I can't break that number out15 for you, but it is something that I will16 try and put together. But the way that17 we approach it philosophically is that as18 soon as the person gets to the prison and19 once they've gone through what I call the20 first four or five days, really it's21 three weeks, between five days and three22 weeks -- because if they come in and get23 out, there's really not too much we can24 do to help them, but anything beyond25 306 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 three weeks is when we start ramping up.2 And philosophically we'd like to do the3 assessments, make sure that they are4 assessed properly, at least starting down5 the path of putting together a plan, and6 that's when RISE and other services that7 we have in the prison from JEVS or others8 that touch the inmate. They become part9 of the process of how we're going to tell10 them and to work with them so that we can11 make sure they don't come back, and the12 way to do that is while they're in the13 jail.14 So that's been our approach15 from the beginning. And right now RISE16 touches people. Probably the social17 workers get them first. We now have18 broken down the barrier between the19 school system and finding out where they20 were in the school system. They're now21 giving us data on people in realtime so22 that we don't have to take anyone's word23 for it. We can say, You were last in24 grade nine and you are testing at grade25 307 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 six. But we also are doing TABE testing.2 We're also trying to make sure that we3 can find out how we can help them4 educationally. But on the other side,5 RISE is looking at using some of the6 money we've won from Wachovia to do7 financial literacy, as well as just8 regular reading literacy programs so we9 can get people where they are, identify10 where their deficits are, find out what11 their interests are and try to start to12 move them in a different way. We do that13 behind the walls now.14 We haven't been able to do it15 for a mass number of people. You heard16 we have 35,000 people come in and leave17 every year. We're trying to get it so we18 can handle a cohort, starting with about19 150 to 200, and just working through the20 system. We're changing the culture21 inside the prison to handle that, and as22 we do that, we'll touch more people.23 So the long answer is, we are24 doing the issues of assessment and we are25 308 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 breaking down the various barriers so we2 can share data in the short run, but in3 the long run, we should be able to get4 that data to help put together a tool5 which will help people identify where6 they need to be to be work ready, because7 that's what we really know is the8 ultimate outcome. We got to get these9 guys into some kind of gainful10 employment, realistic employment given11 the skills they have.12
Just a13 couple more related questions. As you14 quantify that, can you look back at the15 extent to which the prison population has16 been driven down and how much of that is17 related to that type of work or related18 to other things that won't have the same19 type of returns. And I guess the20 followup to that as you answer that is,21 to the extent that we begin to invest and22 quantify what we're investing and23 preparing people for reentry, if that24 continues to drive the prison population25 309 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 down, can we look at what those2 investments look like now and throughout3 the Five Year Plan and whether that money4 is actually going to be reinvested in5 trying to drive the prison population6 down through that type of investment.7 DEPUTY
I8 understand. I smile because obviously I9 think the Prisons Commissioner has done a10 wonderful job in trying to drive the11 population down. It allows him to come12 in and request less money, but the13 savings if we -- if the economy was in a14 different place, maybe we could use some15 of those savings to reinvest even at a16 higher rate to drive down the population17 even more, getting to the education,18 getting to those issues.19
I guess the20 first part of the question was, all this21 savings and lowering of the prison census22 didn't come through those efforts. It23 came from some sort of one-time24 mechanisms in some cases, transferring of25 310 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 inmates and those type of things, I2 believe. So I guess the question was, do3 we know how much of lowering the prison4 population has come from those type of5 efforts, and then if so, do we have a6 plan to reinvest and/or are we just going7 to look to reduce the Prison's budget?8 DEPUTY
Well,9 it is my hope, quite frankly, that we10 would be able -- I can tell you that the11 one thing that the District Attorney12 actually worked on quite well was get the13 transfers up to state, people who were14 state prisoners, getting the law changed15 so that they would be up in state. That16 was about a quarter of the numbers. It17 was almost 500 of the 2,300 that was18 taken out. It was process change,19 though, by getting the stakeholders20 together in CJAB, to have the Courts, the21 DA, the Public Defender and the Prisons22 work on solutions to just getting people23 who had multiple holds in a room with24 their attorneys and having them processed25 311 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 faster, so that they would not have to2 wait for a seriatim date in court. You3 would have one judge, then another judge4 would act, then another judge would act,5 and another judge would act, and that6 would take sometimes four, five, six7 months. We now, through the efforts of8 the court -- and I think they're to be9 commended -- the court actually said, Put10 that all before one judge. And then you11 had to have the cooperation of the DA and12 the Public Defender to say, We have to13 get all of those processes together and14 have their DA, their Defender who was15 representing them, into the courtroom to16 represent them for what is basically a17 multiple-hold discussion and a18 resolution. Sometimes that means that19 people went upstate. Sometimes on the20 other hand and I think the majority of it21 has been that they've gotten their cases22 rolled into one matter, given a sentence,23 but that sentence was actually probably24 going to be shorter than they would have25 312 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 actually been there had they gone through2 these multiple jurisdictional issues3 going between one judge and the next.4 So I understand the point, and5 we can try and quantify how much that has6 been. I know that about a quarter of7 them went up to state, but the others8 have been process changes within the9 system that have allowed us to get people10 through the system faster and get them11 out and get them into programming where12 they need to be. So I'll try and do as13 best we can giving you some analysis on14 that point.15
I look16 forward to you quantifying it. In those17 cases where there are actual efficiency,18 I think maybe we should take those19 savings. In the cases when we begin to20 invest more and find it as being a model,21 I think we should reinvest those savings.22 Thank you.23 DEPUTY
Point24 well taken. Thank you.25 313 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank2 you.3 Commissioner, how many doctors4 and nurses do we have under contract with5 the Prisons?6 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: I'll see7 if I can provide you with that8 information.9 Over 350 medical personnel.10 That includes support staff, records11 clerks, LPNs, RNs, physicians, physicians12 assistants, nurse practitioners and13 administrators.14
Thank15 you.16 And as far as the prison17 guards, we're okay with that? We have18 ample prison guards?19 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Well, we20 have about 92 officer vacancies at this21 point. We have a class of 25 who22 graduate on Wednesday. We are23 processing -- we're trying to put24 together a class of 40 behind that, and25 314 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 we'll request what we need thereafter.2 We've reduced our budgeted3 positions from 2,360 to 2,310, primarily4 due to the fact that we've been able to5 vacate some areas and the associated6 security posts for those areas have been7 removed from the census. We think we'll8 stay stable through the fiscal year, but9 even subtracting those from the budget,10 we still think we have -- well, we still11 have 92 vacancies for correctional12 officers.13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:14 That's an awful lot.15 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: It's a16 lot, but it's not as high as we've been17 in the past, and we're continuing trying18 to fill. Our attrition rate has19 decreased slightly. We used to lose20 anywhere between 12 and 15 staff, mostly21 correctional officers, a month. That's22 down around eight or nine at this point.23
And24 you're satisfied with that?25 315 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: No. I'd2 like to have those 92 correctional3 officers.4
Well,5 I think if you need them, I think now is6 the time to say it.7 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We're8 working on it, Madam President.9
Are10 you working with Finance?11 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: We're12 working with both Finance and Human13 Resources and the Deputy Mayor's office14 to fill those vacancies.15
We16 heard it.17 Okay. Are there any other18 questions from members of the Committee?19 (No response.)20
Okay.21 Seeing no one, thank you very much, and I22 thank you for your patience.23 COMMISSIONER GIORLA: Thank you24 very much.25 316 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Thank2 you.3 The Committee will stand in4 recess until 5:30.5 (Short recess.)6
Good7 afternoon. This is a continued public8 hearing of the Committee of the Whole.9 Our first witness, please.10 MR. McPHERSON: Cathy Scott.11 (Witness approached witness12 table.)13 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:14 Please identify yourself for the record15 and proceed with your testimony.16
Good afternoon,24 President Verna and members of City25 317 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Council. My name is Catherine Scott. I2 am President of AFSCME District Council3 47, and we represent for people who work4 for the City of Philadelphia, members in5 Local 2186, 2187 and the First Judicial6 District, Local 810, probation officers7 and other professional employees. Thank8 you for the opportunity to provide9 testimony about the proposed FY 2011 to10 '12 budget. 19 As you may recall, I have20 raised questions in my testimony21 concerning previous budgets about the22 contracting out of work performed by23 members of District Council 47, Locals24 2186 and 2187. 7 Today I would like to focus on8 the Department of Public Health and, more9 specifically, the health centers. 17 Presently, the City has a18 pharmacy in each of the eight health19 centers. 22 But of the eight additional pharmacist23 positions needed, only three are civil24 service employees, who are paid an25 319 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 average of $77,624 per year,2 approximately $105,570 per year with3 benefits, all benefits and other taxes4 included. Five are contract pharmacists5 for which the City pays 110,000 per year,6 plus benefits and administrative fees per7 pharmacist, approximately $137,500 per8 year. The City has two positions9 approved to hire, but no civil service10 test listed. So the operating philosophy11 is to contract out five pharmacist12 positions, costing an additional $32,93013 per pharmacist or $159,650 per year. 25 320 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Let us look at another staffing2 philosophy. As we all know, in most3 health facilities there is a greater use4 of certified registered nurse5 practitioners and physician assistants to6 aid physicians in providing health7 services. The Medical Evaluation Unit at8 one time had a medical director and9 physician assistants to perform routine10 physicals and other employee medical11 clearance services. Physicians12 assistants make an average of $59,638 per13 year. The two medical services directors14 make $140,507 each. 20 Turning to the physician civil21 service positions, the City presently22 employs 34 and pays an average of $68,33423 for part time and $97,620 for full-time24 physicians per year. The City presently25 321 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 employs eight certified registered nurse2 practitioners, who work in the Family3 Planning area and who are paid an average4 of $73,056, a difference of $24,454 per5 year per person. 12 Since our union has not13 received current contracted-out services14 information for medical services in the15 Health Department, we are unable to16 update our analysis from the previous17 contracts we received. 20 As you can see from Attachment21 A, which just looks at City employees,22 the Health Department's current staffing23 model is costly. Our union has raised24 these issues many times with the25 322 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Department to try to identify cost2 savings in both contracting out and3 staffing, to no avail. 10 Thank you for the opportunity11 to testify, and I am happy to answer any12 questions. 16 I've also attached copies of the job17 descriptions. 4
Thank5 you, Madam President.6 Ms. Scott, I know you say in7 the end you've raised these issues with8 the Administration, to no avail. Have9 they said anything, like kind of why --10 like particularly I'm thinking with the11 health centers. It seems to make sense12 that they don't -- that they could be13 civil service employees. Has there been14 any answer? They don't think they can15 get the people through anything?16
Well, it would be17 very hard to really characterize their18 answers in a way that you and I would19 think would be logical. I'm trying to be20 kind. Part of it is, we've always done21 it that way or we've done it that way for22 a lot of years and it's very hard to23 change philosophies. But that's really24 what they should be doing. They should25 324 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 be looking at what is the most efficient2 way of providing services. Presently3 they really only use certified registered4 nurse practitioners in Family Planning.5 There are a lot of other areas that6 registered nurse practitioners could be7 used. I'm sure all of us when we go to8 see our physicians and we go to9 hospitals, the first person we see is not10 the physician and so -- but this is not a11 philosophy that really exists and, you12 know, it is a challenge.13
Okay. I14 got you. And that's, like you say,15 that's one of the things we raised in16 that hearing that was based on trying to17 get some of those answers. And they sent18 us some answers. I don't think they19 addressed that, but we'll have to check20 into that.21 Thank you.22
Thank you.23 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:24 Cathy, would you have any objection to25 325 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 our sending a copy of your testimony to2 the Health Commissioner so that when he3 comes in to testify, he will be prepared4 to answer many of the questions that you5 have asked?6
Thank9 you.10 Also, would you know how many11 doctors have received residency waivers?12 I know years ago that was a common13 practice. I don't know if it still is.14
I do think it is a15 common practice still, and there are some16 positions in the Health Department where17 there are residency waivers.18 I would like to point out for19 contracted doctors, I believe if we20 looked at them, almost all of them would21 not be City residents. But civil service22 physicians is a classification where a23 residency waiver is available.24
Thank25 326 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 you.2 The Chair recognizes3 Councilwoman Blackwell.4
Thank5 you, Madam President.6 It's so unbelievable that we7 hear all of this horrendous information,8 and certainly I believe that we should9 demand some answers to this, certainly10 before this budget is passed. We want11 answers. My goodness, we have people in12 this city who need jobs and then we13 have -- and we have it all outlined and14 defined for us, and yet we spend all this15 money for people, God knows where they16 live or what their situation is. It's17 just unbelievable that we can hear this18 kind of testimony today.19 So we really want answers to20 this certainly before we consider passing21 this budget.22
And one of the23 questions that was -- thank you,24 Councilwoman Blackwell. One of the25 327 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 questions that was asked in a previous2 year, I believe Councilman Clarke asked3 it, was whether physicians or other4 medical practitioners who work in the5 health centers are qualified for the6 federal program where their school loans7 would be forgiven. And I did do research8 on that and provided it to him, and the9 answer is yes, that -- and this would be10 an inducement to have people come and11 work in the Philadelphia health centers,12 because we all know that medical school13 is very expensive.14
And15 certainly we agree with that. That's a16 very important issue. There's so many17 ways we could do better, and yet we stay18 here and suffer and be made to feel that19 we have to come up with answers when20 they're right here in front of our faces.21 We just have to have the Administration22 to hear it and work with us, work with23 District Council 47 and try to get some24 of this done. So we're looking forward25 328 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 to continued discussion.2
Thank4 you.5 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:6 Cathy, do you know what the waiting7 period is for District 10's health8 center?9
Well, the waiting10 period -- different health centers have11 different waiting periods.12
District 10 is15 terrible. I believe it's up to four16 months to get an appointment.17
But I20 think for an initial appointment it's21 even longer than that.22
The25 329 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.2
Thank you,3 Madam Chair.4 It's amazing to me. Normally5 it's the other way around, but what I've6 learned is that you -- and you might have7 already said this, and I was distracted,8 but I'm impressed with the fact that 479 has gone to the Administration, not once,10 not twice, numerous times about the cost11 savings that you've identified, and it12 didn't get anywhere. I think you did13 mention that. So I want to thank you,14 because it's just hard for me to believe15 that you could be presenting things like16 a physicians assistant, the most common17 practice in medicine, that they don't18 listen.19 And the other issue is the20 permanent residency waivers that -- I21 don't know how many of those we have, but22 I was told by a young physician that23 tried to apply for that job and he got24 nowhere with it, and I was told, not25 330 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 maybe last year or the year before, that2 those positions -- that they couldn't3 find anybody that wanted, a4 Philadelphian, that wanted to work in the5 Health Department as a part-time doctor.6 So I think Council Lady7 Blackwell is absolutely correct, the8 Administration, we need to hear from9 them. Is anybody even here from the10 Administration?11
That's not a13 good thing either. But all I can say is14 thanks very much for bringing these15 issues to our attention, and you can bet16 we're going to deal with them.17
Well, thank you.18 I'd appreciate it. The last time we met19 with the health -- we were very20 persistent in raising these issues in the21 Health Department and with the Health22 Commissioner, and the last time we were23 really pushing on an answer to these24 questions was the last labor management25 331 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 meeting we had, which was in May of '09,2 with the Commissioner of Health.3
Madam4 President, I know that we haven't had the5 Health Department yet, but I think we6 ought to put them on notice that we might7 have a recall for some of the folks, Clay8 Armbrister, some of the other folks that9 we need to hear from on this issue. So I10 plan to send you a memo on who I think11 appropriate that we need to get back12 here. Okay?13
I think19 I'm going to save my questions for the20 Health Department, because this is21 specifically regarding Health Center No.22 9. I don't know what the wait time there23 is, but I know it's not -- you can't call24 today and get an appointment next week.25 332 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Right.2 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:3 Occasionally when I leave my house very4 early in the morning, if I go in that5 direction, I see a long line of people as6 early as 6 o'clock standing in line to7 get into the health center. The first8 time I saw it, it pretty much shocked me.9 But I guess with more and more people10 being unemployed, the health center is11 their place that they go to.12 So I think it's important that13 you bring issues like this. We don't14 normally know this information. So I15 just too want to thank you. But I just16 want to get more information regarding17 Health Center 9.18 Thank you.19
Thank you.20 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:21 Cathy, you may or may not know the22 answer, but how many doctors do we have23 that are under civil service regulations24 and how many doctors do we have under25 333 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 contract?2
Well, we have 343 who are civil -- that's the Appendix A4 that I have. There's a list of positions5 that we represent, and the numbers on the6 far left is the number of people that are7 holding civil service positions. So8 there are 34 part-time physicians. I9 can't give you the number of contract10 doctors, because unfortunately we haven't11 gotten from the Administration the12 current contracts that we would be able13 to do the analysis of how many contract14 physicians there are. However, I do know15 that some doctors are both civil service16 and contract doctors working at health17 centers. So they are paid some of the18 time as City civil service employees and19 then they continue working at the same20 health center, I guess, being paid as a21 contract employee, because they are22 contract employees.23
I'm24 sorry. How does that work?25 334 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
Well, they don't2 have -- most of them do not have -- I3 don't think any of them have individual4 contracts with the City. The City5 contracts with hospitals and other6 services that provide physicians to them.7 And so I assume that they are employees8 of the hospital that has the contract to9 provide physicians. But they don't lose10 a beat. They're right there working11 almost full time.12 It's a very difficult structure13 to understand and even more difficult to14 try to figure out why they're doing it15 that way.16
Do we20 know how many full time there are? You21 said you don't know about those that were22 contracted out. How about civil service?23
I don't believe24 there are any full-time civil service25 335 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 physicians. We'll double-check it,2 but -- there are none.3
Thank4 you.5 Any other questions from the6 Committee?7 (No response.)8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 Seeing none --10
-- I13 thank you. But I will send a copy of14 your testimony to the Health15 Commissioner. I know Councilmembers16 would be interested in getting answers to17 your many questions, and I think he's18 going to have to answer them.19
Thank21 you.22 MR. McPHERSON: Our next23 witness is David Tukey.24 (Witness approached witness25 336 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 table.)2
Good3 evening, sir. Please identify yourself4 for the record.5
My name is David6 Tukey. I'm from West Mount Airy Tree7 Tenders. 11 It's very short text to read over. 19 Some of the questions that20 Councilman Green raised last week had to21 do with different kinds of funding that22 was backlogged for safety in firehouses23 and police stations, and trees have to do24 with safety as well. 7 Right before me somebody8 testified about public health, which is9 also a serious matter. 14 There are also psychological15 impacts. It turns out that children that16 have trees outside their classrooms learn17 better. It turns out that trees outside18 office buildings have their office19 workers work more productively. 21 But why should the City spend22 our tax dollars to pay for trees for23 Philadelphia? It turns out based on24 various economic studies that have been25 338 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 conducted that for every dollar a city2 spends on tree, both planting and3 maintenance over the tree's life of 304 years or more, the city receives in5 benefits for $2. 17 The other thing that's18 interesting about the testimony that was19 by the Commissioner last week and also20 last year, last week there wasn't as much21 about tree planting, and it's very22 important that we plant as many trees as23 possible. 25 339 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 The City's goal is an average tree canopy2 of about 30 percent. In Mount Airy we're3 above 30 percent already. Chestnut Hill4 is above 30 percent already. But some5 neighborhoods are around eight percent or6 even five percent. To reach the citywide7 average of 30 percent, we have to plant a8 lot of trees. But as the Commissioner9 noticed last week from the department,10 they aren't planting a lot of trees,11 because the backlog of removals is so12 severe. And they're having volunteers13 plant trees. In this case I believe he14 mentioned staff from the University of15 Pennsylvania planting trees. In my case,16 in West Mount Airy, over the last six17 years we have planted 450 trees on City18 streets, which is small by comparison to19 West Philly that may plant over 2,000 in20 a given year. But a lot is being done by21 volunteers, but we can't do that without22 City money to purchase trees. We used to23 have money from the state through the24 Growing Greener II bond issue. That25 340 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 source of revenue has dried up and2 they've been scurrying around to find3 sources of revenue other places,4 sometimes without avail. So we do need5 City money to plant trees. 14 We also need to have money to15 make sure we have adequate inspection of16 those plantings. In many cases, those17 plantings by contractors are not adequate18 by arborist standards. They're planted19 improperly, where baskets are not20 removed, burlaps not removed, the root21 flare is not visible. All kinds of22 things can be a problem. 3 Lastly, a matter of public4 safety has to do not with hazardous trees5 but with parts of trees that can be a6 hazard. I wish Councilman Green were7 here. I would refer to the commuter8 route I take from Mount Airy up to9 Chestnut Hill all the time, and there's10 some rather sizable limbs overhanging11 these streets along a major commuter12 corridor, very sizable, 15-inch caliber13 diameter branches, 40 feet in length that14 are dying, dead or decayed. 20 Removals is only part of the21 problem. 6 In conclusion, I'd like to7 remind you that investing in city trees8 has benefits that are profound. They9 affect public health, they affect school10 children, they affect productivity of11 workers, they affect all kinds of things,12 and they have a two-to-one ratio of13 benefits to investments. 17 The best time to plant a tree was 2018 years ago. 21
Thank22 you very much.23 Are there any questions from24 members of the Committee?25 343 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 (No response.)2 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:3 Seeing none, we thank you for taking the4 time to come in to testify. Thank you5 very much.6 MR. McPHERSON: Our next7 witness is Donald Kelly.8 (Witness approached witness9 table.)10
Good11 evening, Mr. Kelly. Please identify12 yourself for the record and proceed with13 your testimony.14
Thank you. 18 So good evening all. 21 I'd just like to say a few words of22 testimony regarding your challenging task23 of fashioning a budget during these24 uncertain and difficult times. 19 In the midst of a very20 conservative bank lending environment,21 the Urban Affairs Coalition has been22 working with the City, City-funded23 housing counseling agencies, home24 inspection firms and banks to update and25 345 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 modernize the PHIL-Plus and the Mini-PHIL2 Home Improvement Loan Program so that it3 can thrive. 20 We allowed participating21 lenders to require up to ten percent22 equity for PHIL-Plus loans. Previously23 they had been prohibited from requiring24 equity, but because of the more25 346 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 conservative situations, they now feel2 that they really need to be able to do3 that. 2 As you know, an important3 principle in the strategic use of limited4 public funds is that of leveraging. How5 much in private sector capital can we6 leverage towards public purposes with our7 limited public dollars? I'm sure you ask8 this question all the time. 11 In the case of the12 Anti-Predatory Lending program, the City13 has supported the Urban Affairs Coalition14 to create and administer the program15 since July 2003 at an average of $60,00016 a year to operate it. In addition, there17 has been $168,676 in claims that have18 been paid under the City-funded Reserve19 Fund for defaulted loans. These claims20 were made by and paid to banks. The21 total program cost on these counts since22 2003 is $648,676. 175 million. 4 We hope you agree that by most5 public policy design standards, this has6 been and continues to be a wise and7 strategic investment of public funds. 9
Thank10 you very much.11 The Chair recognizes Councilman12 Goode.13
Thank you,14 Madam President.15 Good evening, Mr. Kelly.16
Thank you18 for your testimony and for the good work19 you do at GPUAC. Just a couple of20 questions.21 What is the status of the22 Business Builder Program?23
The Business24 Builder Program had a four-year life and25 349 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 it finished its term in January of this2 year.3
Could you8 forward some of that information to the9 Chair for Council?10
Last simple12 question is, during its lifespan, did it13 make any referrals to or receive any14 referrals from the Small Business Loan15 Guarantee Program at PIDC?16
Are you19 familiar with the Loan Guarantee Program20 there?21
Yes. Yes, I am,22 but not -- I don't know it well, but I23 know they have a Loan Guarantee Program.24
Thank you.25 350 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371 Thank you, Madam President.2
Thank3 you.4 Are there any other questions5 from members of the Committee?6 (No response.)7 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:8 Seeing none, I thank you for coming in.9
We11 don't have any other names of witnesses.12 Is there anyone here that would like to13 testify?14 (No response.)15
I16 would think -- does the Committee agree17 that we should wait another ten minutes,18 then we'll send Rodney downstairs so if19 there are any unexpected visitors, they20 can be told that the hearing is over.21
Okay,24 Donna?25 351 4/11/11 - WHOLE - BILL 1101371
This6 Committee will stand in recess until7 tomorrow, April the 12th at 10:00 a.m.,8 at which time we will hear from Public9 Property.10 Thank you.11 (Committee of the Whole12 adjourned at 6:20 p.m.)13 - - -14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 352 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on April 11, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25