I'm just asking a simple question 'cause I don't know -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Sure. In any given time, a vendor that we deal with can use who they so desire. It's generally always subject to our approval. If there was a name on here that we recognized that had done poor work for us in the past or has a bad performance record, we would reject that. But I believe our technical people were satisfied with these particular companies, and they have approved them.
No, I understand. 74 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 I guess I'm also just wondering, suppose a company came along who had a stellar performance with the city of Philadelphia, didn't happen to know anybody at Motorola and said, "I'd like to do some of this work," what happens to them? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: When Motorola submitted the pricing to us -- and remember, it was a competitive RFP -- they went out in the marketplace and selected the vendors that gave and yielded to them the competitive pricing that they needed. If they didn't receive the competitive pricing from the vendors that they (unintelligible), they would have gone to other ones. But generally speaking, we do not have the control of who those subcontractors might be. Only we have the control that if we're not happy with them, we can reject them.
Okay, so I mean the overall package is, the number was $51,200,000. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Correct.
And the components of that are, Motorola's going to do certain things, and based on these group of companies that 75 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 we deal with, we can guarantee you the $51.2 million price. If other people somehow come along or want to get involved in the process, one, quite honestly, that could affect what's going on; two, they might not have any experience in dealing with them; and three, they may not have any idea of what their price would be as a competitor to anybody else on this particular list. Is that the way it works? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's correct, yes. Our contract and our agreement is with Motorola and we will be forwarding payment directly to Motorola. They will then pay their various contractors.
Okay. My last question actually goes either to Mr. James or Mr. Costello. It has to do with actually one of our own facilities. And I noticed in some document that a couple of rooms I think were mentioned in one of these particular materials as to where certain equipment is going here in City Hall. I think there's a reference made to certain locations like Room 714 or something like that. 76 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 Just a minor observation. My last trip up to -- I think it's municipal radio up on the seventh floor. Do we have any planned upgrades for the work environment and conditions up in that space? It seems to be rather tight and not particularly conducive to a positive work environment.
Councilman, you're absolutely right, and I think you're actually being kind in describing the current space up there.
One of the key ingredients for me in this project is not just the improved radio capability but the ability to provide a more professional and certainly a more aesthetic environment for employees -- those who do municipal dispatch as well as all Communications Division employees. 77 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 As part of this project, we will be relocated our entire operation to the seventh floor of City Hall. Our existing operations will move up there, our new Dispatch Center will move up there, the system manager and manager offices will move up to the seventh floor. Plans are underway now, and an architect was just hired to completely renovate that space. As you know, the seventh floor is not exactly pristine at this point in time either, but the spaces will be completely redone and, really, we can thank this project for the impetus to get that thing moving.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is just a continuation along the lines that Councilman Nutter, in regards to MBEC. I'm just a little bit confused. I didn't read the book yet, I haven't been here actually. However, with the list of contractors, does that mean that 78 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 there are no opportunities for other contractors to submit a bid or be a part of this package that's in the binder that was passed out?
No, it does not, Councilwoman. My name is James Roundtree, and I'm the Director of the Minority Business Enterprise Council. But we left the little caveat that should Motorola find some additional opportunities or areas that they were going to purchase goods or services from, that they would utilize some minority and women businesses.
Does that mean that the 37 percent goals have already been reached?
No. That means they have committed to 37 percent, but it has not been reached. A major portion of the activity will be done through the construction area, and so they are still negotiating with a number of firms for that participation.
Will this project create any permanent jobs? And if so, what types? 79 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There will not be any permanent jobs created going in the future; it will be the same workforce that we have today using the equipment. We are entering into a maintenance contract with Motorola for the three years after final completion, so they will be on site for at least that many years to make sure that the system works and operates correctly.
During the construction phase, will people be paid prevailing wage? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes, absolutely. There's a comment in the contract that requires Motorola to pay prevailing wages, yes.
Okay. Can you describe what good-faith effort, what it actually is? Since I've been here, it's always described as "good faith," and then get calls from our constituents to say that good faith is not working. I mean, can you tell me what evaluating and monitoring and all those kind of things are? Do you have a checklist that you use? How often 80 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 do you monitor? What are the things you're looking for in your evaluation?
Jim Roundtree, again. Councilwoman, we have a standard sheet identifying what specifically good faith is, and I can get that for you, but it's more like a ten-item checklist. But in this particular contract, we're going to be -- MBEC will be very involved in actually monitoring and working with Motorola to assure that the firms that they have identified previously are given an opportunity to participate and then monitor that entire process all the way through, receive and certify payrolls, following up by purchase orders, along with, if we need Council's checks to assure that the minority and women and disabled business vendors have been paid. To that degree, we'll be involved to that degree.
And what is the 81 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 sanctions for failing to comply? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: If they're not in compliance, just as any other company doing business with the city of Philadelphia, they risk being defaulted and a call against their performance bond.
Is that a part of the agreement written into the agreement, the noncompliance? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Oh, yeah. All standard -- all contracts that are entered into by the city of Philadelphia, our terms and conditions, require compliance with the contract; and upon a failure, they can be disqualified and the City of Philadelphia can go against their performance bond, which in this particular contract, is a 100 percent performance bonds or $51.2 million. So they will perform.
Well, some of the other companies haven't performed, so do you use that enforcement mechanism in the contracts? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes, we do.
Well, if it sounds to us like they don't perform, I mean, they 82 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 could but some -- we haven't received documented information on 'cause we get too many calls from constituents that are in the contracting business that want to participate in lots of these projects, and it seems that there are many barriers. And one question I would have is, does Motorola, do they have a track record in terms of meeting these types of requirements on other projects that they have been involved in?
Let him answer. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely. I mean, Motorola is the leader in the industry of the 800-megahertz system. I believe they're the only ones right now who have that. But I believe your question is directed specifically to minority participation.
Right. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We have no 21 information that would indicate that they don't comply, and they have made commitments that they will comply. And our Director of Minority Business Enterprises Council is satisfied with that commitment, and they will do what they say 83 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 they are going to do, absolutely.
Well, Mr. Roundtree, do you feel assured? We go through this every time we do a big deal or a TIF, and then a month later, people are calling us up, and we have to do additional public hearings, and we feel like we have to enforce or bring people back to the table to continue to talk about minority participation? And for myself on these kind of projects, I just need to know these answers beforehand so that when people start to call, we know exactly who to call, and that's --
I am very confident that the members of the Motorola team and the members of the City team have a direct understanding that they will comply with everything that they have agreed to and committed to thus far.
I don't know whether this goes to communications or procurement. How much money have we spent on this project from its 84 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 conception to today? How much money has actually been spent in consulting fees, engineering, all kinds of expenses associated with this project? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I believe this particular question was posed earlier, and the only cost that I know of that the City has expended to date has been our independent consultants. The City team has worked very long, hard, and strenuous, a lot of hours, so I can't evaluate those costs 'cause there's a lot of our own city of Philadelphia manpower. As far as consultants, I believe the number was 2 to $400,000.
Councilman, as you know, this project has gone back quite a while, and we've had consultants on board since the early 1990s, so I guess the number would certainly reach about a half a million dollars to date in consulting fees. There really have been no other expenses associated with the project other than, as Commissioner Applebaum mentioned, the City personnel costs.
Do you think it would be to our advantage to start keeping track 85 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 of what City employees involve themselves in this project so we'd know in the end -- (Chairwoman Clark taps gavel.)
Excuse me, Madam Chair, don't you think it's appropriate to know what time and effort is expended in -- would you excuse --
I hear you and I have no desire to step on your right to ask questions but if I had you in a court of law, I'd have to ask you where you're going with this line of questioning.
At the end of the project, it would be nice to know how much money we've spent.
We've got to pay those guys what we pay those guys whether they do anything good, bad or otherwise. That doesn't help me. Expenditures such as we might have incurred for a consultant, hardware or any other of the soft costs that go with the project, fine, but I don't think you can start allocating what part of Dean's time he's spent on this versus something else. 86 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
No, I'm not talking about the Budget Director; I'm talking about the people in the Communications Division to support the installation.
How is he different from anybody else? He's a City employee who's on a salary.
Well, if you would like to include Dean into that, I have no problem with that.
No, what I want you to do is ask a question that is relevant to this proceeding. I do not wish to be disrespectful to you, but I do not wish to have this hearing go off on tangents --
-- not likely to get me to a point where I have a record that will sustain this purchase or not. And irrelevant questions -- I don't mean to characterize your question as irrelevant, but I need an offer of proof of where you're going with this 'cause this doesn't take me anywhere. 87 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
Well, we've -- there's been other members of this committee that have asked questions that are not relevant to the purchase of this system that there was no 6 objection to.
That's my interpretation. Now, could I continue with my question?
Yes, if you're going to ask a question that's relevant to these proceedings.
My question is, when we finish this project, will we really know how much it cost? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We will absolutely know how much we have paid to our contractor for this contract, just as in every other project in the City of Philadelphia, whether we're building a building or buying police cars or buying salt for the roads, we know exactly what paid through a purchase order, through checks that are issued. 88 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 The other costs, such as our overhead, our own payroll, those costs are not captured. In order for the city of Philadelphia to be able to capture those costs, we would have to install a very sophisticated complicated cost system such as major law firms have to capture costs, and we, every employee, would have to fill out time reports by the tenth of an hour of what we're doing and charge to jobs, and I don't know whether that would be relevant and important or necessary.
The -- once the system's in and operating, the operational costs of the system that we have determined what the support for the system, the telephone lines, and all the associated equipment, what we're going to be spending to annually to maintain and operate the system. I'm not talking about just the maintenance; I'm talking about all of the expenses associated with maintaining a system of this ten-tower -- the telephone lines, has that all been put together on exactly how much we're going to spend in the operational ends?
Councilman, to answer that question, I would say to date, we have not defined 89 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 the total operational costs. I believe you're speaking about the operational costs for the networking end of it. We do have a cost that's in the budget that's a part of the project for the construction of the infrastructure, which includes all of the circuits necessary to the various tower sites for the operational costs. But at this particular moment, I couldn't tell you per se what that actual cost would be, but that's something that I could certainly respond to you in writing.
Electricity -- in other words, there's going to be a cost to operate this system, and I'd be interested to know what that would be annually.
I think we can probably give you the networking costs. I don't know if I could give you the utility costs for operating the tower and so forth.
There's more than network. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of expenses associated with keeping this system up and running. Going back to the guarantee that the 90 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 system has, you've identified the fact that the current system has lots of holes and that there's coverage-related problems. When this system is installed, after it's staged at the factory and it's delivered to Philadelphia and it's turned on, and I know that it's in this detail, if there are coverage problems, who's responsible? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Motorola is responsible for the performance of the system in accordance with the specifications. There are in addition to the normal specifications, we have a through-put -- what was that?
There is a through-put requirement that's in the study that ensures the performance of the system as well as part of the first phase of the project, involves a coverage study where there's an actual feet on the street that go out to sites and test that radio to ensure that they have the coverage before we accept the system. So there is -- part of the phasing of the project involves a detailed coverage analysis to ensure, before we agree to it, that we have the coverage as we predicted in the proposal within 91 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 the building and outside the building.
The only last concern that I have is, and I see a representative that spoke with me from -- a photo journalist. There is presently an ordinance in our government that permits certain organizations to monitor fire, police, radio. And that ordinance also identifies who is not allowed to monitor. How are we going to accommodate the news media, photo journalists, the ability -- and Councilman Kenney mentioned the fact that the concern about eavesdropping, but there are organizations that are permitted to monitor our frequencies. So how are we going to give that access to our TV, radio, and other media to be able to know what's going on if this is such a solid, secure digitized system? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We have reviewed that in our meetings, and if media, authorized media are interested, they will buy from the City of Philadelphia an appropriate radio that they can use to listen to certain areas that we want them to listen to. They must be approved and they must buy the equipment. 92 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
Are we -- by law, are we allowed to prohibit total access to our system? Are we allowed to do that by law? Can you do what you just said legally, prohibit the media from listening in on all of the frequencies? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We're not prohibiting them; we're allowing them to participate. We are going to control it and we are going to sell them the equipment.
Well, that's not what you really said. You said you would let them listen to what you -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We're going to sell them equipment. If they so desire, if the legitimate media wants to listen to what is going on and they apply to us, we will sell them the equipment, and they will be able to listen in.
No. Are there some channels that you would hold confidential? 93 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Right.
Yes? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There will be a limit. I mean, the very, very secure areas -- undercover agents and whatever -- they will not have the authority to listen into those particular channels.
I asked the question and I understand, and I don't want to be argumentative. Are you legally allowed to deny them? Right now, our U band and our H band are all high confidential bands, but still, the media can listen in to them because the technology permits it? If they wanted to listen to all 30 channels that you have available, or anyone that's permanent permitted by law to listen, is there anything you could do to prevent them from listening if they chose to? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I believe this is a question that would go to the City Solicitor's Office to make that determination.
Do you have a lawyer from the City Solicitor's Office present? Do we have a legal opinion on that that's brief? 94 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The Law Department prefers that we submit the question to the City Solicitor's Office, and we will do that. But I imagine, using good judgment, that in the world of public safety, if it's necessary to protect the interests and we have the technology to do that, we certainly would do that.
Let's not speculate on the record. If we're going to get an opinion on it -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We will speak to the City Solicitor and get an opinion on that question.
And we will get the opinion on an expedited basis so as to have it in advance of our final passage? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely. (City Solicitor's opinion later submitted and attached hereto.)
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you.
Okay, I need to 95 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 ask questions just so that my record is complete. Does the proposed contract include a warranty or a maintenance agreement for the subscribers? And if so how, long is the City committed to the agreement? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We are offered with the program a one-year warranty on all equipment. We have negotiated with Motorola a three-year, full-warranty, full-maintenance contract that we have the option to take in the future. So we today have, from the beginning of the program till approximately five years out, full warranty, full maintenance on the system.
How much does it cost? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The annual maintenance cost is approximately $1 million. That's full maintenance, full parts, everything, 100 percent.
Would it be cheaper to maintain the system with City employees or to contract with another contractor? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: In our study of other cities and in our investigations when we 96 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 visited other cities who had the 800-megahertz system that is similar to what we are getting, we feel very confident that it's very important to have the professionals who have sold us the equipment maintain that equipment. In the long run, we feel very strongly that the costs will not be excessive and we will have the outside contractor fully responsible. And the city of Cleveland was very successful in doing that way, and we studied them when we made our visits to Cleveland.
What happens to the City employees who currently maintain the radio system?
Councilwoman, I think the City employees that currently maintain, our base station technicians, they will become in effect the system managers because of the technology that we're buying. And because we'll be able to manage, they will in turn become the managers. They will be --
So they will take advantage of the training aspect of it and go into the new system as the operators. 97 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
Exactly. We have about $900,000 to $1 million set aside for training of our people. I'd just like to add that the people who work in the Department of Public Property communications and the radio system area are among the most dedicated and loyal in the City and have done a truly magnificent job over the years under conditions that were not always financially favorable in maintaining what we have right now. They're not the type of people that we would put on the side, but instead, incorporate into the new system.
Thank you. Please define for this committee what is meant by "through-put performance standard" and "grade of service" as it relates to the proposed system's performance.
Yes, briefest, if could I make it. The through-put standard is just a 98 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 benchmark that we're setting today that gives us a record of how the system should operate and the type of reliability that our users can anticipate once the system is deployed. And the grade --
Below which we shall not fall, and the details -- those parameters and details if, in fact, we do not meet our benchmark. The grade of service, again, is an indicator to us of the time that will elapse from the time a user pushes the Push-To-Talk button until the time they have a channel available for them to speak. Again, it provides us a measurement tool to go back and measure against once the system is installed.
What remedial actions have been made -- what remedial actions is Motorola required to perform under the proposed contract if the system does not meet the grade of service?
The first remedial action that will occur is a joint analysis between the 99 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 City and the Motorola team to go over the performance measures to define where, in fact, there is a defect in our performance. And then set a set of circumstances of remedial action for Motorola to reconfigure or re-optimize our system to --
Are you getting near the end of the answer? I told you I like short answers.
Goodness gracious. Goodness gracious. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That would have been my answer.
Okay, now, are we clear? If I ask you a long question, I want a short answer. No, seriously, I do have a lot of questions. Commissioner Applebaum? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes?
Do you mind if we bring back Commissioners Timoney and Hairston to 100 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 permit the committee to ask them questions. They're sitting in their chairs as if they need to spring. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely.
Are there questions from the committee specifically addressed to Commissioners Timoney and Hairston? We're beginning to feel a little bit worried about the City's safety if we keep them here poised on the end of a chair. You just told us that you have no way to talk to them. Are there questions for the commissioners? Are there any questions? (No questions.)
In that case, Commissioners, please accept our thanks for your patience and for your presentations, and we will consider that you've made your contribution, and you may go. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Thank you, Madam Chair. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you.
Thank you. 101 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you for allowing them to leave. We're on the clock now, and we don't want them charged to this project.
Don't provoke the committee, sir. Don't provoke the committee. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Okay.
All right. My next question is, is all of the software provided in this system Y2K-compliant? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Our City Solicitor's Office will answer that question. (Michael Athay comes forward.)
Michael Athay. That's A-T-H-A-Y for the reporter. I'm a Divisional Deputy City Solicitor Officer, and I've represented the City in the negotiation of this contract. Motorola has agreed to a warranty of the year 2000 compliance of the software, of all software, including code that is embedded in microchips for this project. All software that is 102 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 part of the project will be subject to this warranty. The standards of warranty are the City's standards, essentially the City's standards. And the warranty has been negotiated with the advice and consent of the City's Chief Information Officer, Brian Anderson, every step of the way.
The warranty does not have a term. The warranty will extend into --
Is there a specific cost connected to it, an identifiable cost connected to the warranty as to Y2K?
There is no additional cost in the contract for the year 2000 warranty specifically, no. 20
Thank you. Since the operation of the proposed system is dependent on software, under the proposed contract, does Motorola warrant that the software will be uninterrupted and error-free? And if so, for how long? 103 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
I can address that question as well. Councilwoman Clark, no software is completely uninterrupted and error-free; it's simply not the case. There are always errors in software; it's the nature of the business. Motorola has --
If not, what corrective action does Motorola have to make under the proposed agreement?
This contract contains strong warranties for software, including again, code that's embedded in microchips, very strong warranties. And under those warranties, Motorola is required to correct any defect that goes to the primary functionality or any critical feature of the system that's critical to the primary functionality. The City's team, the technical team has carefully negotiated the definition of primary functionality, and there's no short way to describe it here. But I can assure you that the issue was thoroughly reviewed, and the definition of "primary functionality," in our judgment, will sustain the system, the operability of the 104 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 system. If there's a defect --
Let me think for a moment. There is no additional cost, to my knowledge, that goes specifically to the software warranty.
It's incorporated in the general project warranty that Commissioner Applebaum described.
To sustain the overall warranty for system compliance?
Yes, I believe that's correct. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That is correct. In our discussions, there has not been any place where software warranties have been shown as a separate item. They're included in the 105 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 totals.
Right. Will the City be obligated to purchase Motorola software? And if so, for how long and at what costs?
Motorola software is included in the base purchase. It's a major part of the project.
The City will be purchasing enhancements and updates -- these are the terms in the industry -- to the base software. I mean, it's desirable to do that and we would want to do that. And we will be doing that going forward. The City is not, under this contract, committed to purchase what the industry calls "eversion upgrades." That will be at our option. If and when a major upgrade of the software becomes available, it would be negotiated at the time. We are not committed to do that under this contract.
Will the City have to pay extra for any software enhancements or new software products? And if so, will we receive discounts on those purchases? 106 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Could you repeat the questions, please?
Sure. Will the City have to pay extra for any software enhancements and new software products? And if so, will the City receive any discounts on those purchases? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I -- I would assume that if there are additional software, as they come out, and enhancements, that would be chargeable, we would be obligated to pay for that. And I, again, would assume that the discounts that we have negotiated will be continued on. Again, we have not had specific pricing on software. So it's -- I would -- I'm making an assumption that they will be priced at the same discount level.
Please identify the proposed project managers for the City and Motorola on this project. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Okay. The interim project manager has been Vince Costello, from Communications. 107 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 We have received a proposal from the two consultants who have worked very closely with us on this project, and we will be very shortly signing the agreements for their services. These gentlemen have been with the City for sometime as independent consultants, and one has been the project manager or the owner's representative for the Criminal Justice Center and also for the construction of a prison. So they have extensive experience in project management and also in radio systems as they related to the prisons. Our group has full confidence that these men have the ability and dedication and loyalty to take us from here forward. And we again have heard from other cities of the importance of having a full-time project manager working on the project from the day that we sign the contract.
What about the project managers from Motorola, did you address that? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I did not address that. I do not know whether we have the name yet or not. They have not presented to us 108 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 the name of the product manager, but we do reserve the right. . . I'm sorry, I'm being corrected. There is a project manager. Melissa? (Melissa Hanlon comes forward.)
L-O-N, okay. Does each one have adequate, relevant management and oversight experience to qualify for the development and installation of an emergency radio system of the size, magnitude, and scope of this project? That's a yes- or no-question. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes.
Okay. Do you have anything you want to put on? I have, "If not, why so? If yes, why so?" COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, let's say the committee has worked very diligently and very hard to do a very good job of --
Are you persuaded that their experience is sufficient? 109 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yeah. And we feel comfortable with the City's management and also with Motorola's. And our goal is to install a perfect system, and we feel very satisfied that that will happen with the group that we have retained.
Okay. I want to talk just a little bit about underground. How far underground can a police officer or a fireman go before system coverage will be cut off? What proposals for an underground system were made? What are the costs associated for each proposal? Is there sufficient funding in place? And why aren't we considering the underground system now? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, let me start with first question as far as how far an officer can go. We understand that it varies in the various locations of the city, the various sections of the underground. It is somewhat limited. The officer will have some coverage underground, but again, it is very limited. We have had a proposal presented to us by Motorola for a full underground system at a cost of approximately $22 million. We have 110 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 elected to defer that for the time being, and we are meeting with SEPTA in the hopes of developing a program where we will be able to share the cost with the SEPTA system for developing the full underground system. We are also going to look to the private sector for the possibility of the cellular systems adjoining us and deferring some of costs. So we will-- in fact, we do have a task force dealing with SEPTA, and we will also try to deal with the cellular system people and with Motorola to come up with a program that will be advantageous to the City on a basis that we can share the cost. And as we mentioned before and in the amendment that you have, when that is developed, it will be presented to City Council.
So you see that as Phase II? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, actually, this program is Phase I and Phase II. This is be Phase III.
Phase III. I'm reminded to ask to you to submit written answers to all the questions that are 111 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 unanswered today so as to permit our record to be full enough to justify our decision. Okay, yes, sir?
This is a technical question. The present system, the 450 and the Fire Department operates, you have backup generators to keep that system up in the event of an interruption of PECO Energy service. What are you planning to do to keep this system an up system during the potential of a major interruption of power? And now that you're adding additional antenna locations, will they all be up all the time?
Absolutely, absolutely. They'll be redundant backup power at each of the ten major cites, including the sites of City Hall where we're feeding off of existing generators. But each system have an up system, a series of generators. There should be clear, unless a catastrophic situation occurs, a power outage that would last for a long time, I mean we should have a reliable source of power at all of the sites.
So you're telling me that the installation of this system will also 112 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 include the installation of additional generation equipment. Is that a separate deal here? 'Cause that's a substantial investment.
The 51 million includes the generators and all that to keep the system up?
Okay. Let's talk about the MBEC involvement just a little bit more, Mr. Roundtree. Please describe the agreement that has been reached with respect to MBEC contractors in this project. Specifically, why haven't the MBEC certified subcontractors been selected for the project? Why will the selection occur after the project is approved by Council?
The first answer, there has been no commitments to the specific firms. Second, our response is, because of the nature of the construction activity, they have -- Motorola or their general contractor has not 113 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 completed negotiations. And at that point, once the negotiations are completed, then ten days prior to award of a contract to the general contractor, they will submit a solicitation commitment form committing to the specific subcontractors for minority, women, and disabled business.
You will have the list by contract, name, size of the contract, in terms of dollars, and the amount of work involved?
Okay. Has the scope of the construction been determined yet?
I don't feel qualified to respond to that particular version of it.
Well, does anybody know how you price it without knowing the size and 114 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 scope of the work? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We know the story on the towers that's going to be constructed, we know where they are. There's been some adjustments made with one tower replacing another tower. So the definitive numbers per tower have not been determined. But in general, on the overall price, the price of 51.2 will cover it. In fact, there are some documents that show that that price might come down to be a lower number for some of the changes that were made.
So you have some appreciation for the size of the construction as a percentage of the total cost of the project. But today, if you had to give a parts list and a who-does-what list, you're not prepared to be that specific and that detailed?
Okay. Now, is it your intention then to provide this Council with an itemized list of the work to be done and the contractors?
Yes, ma'am. Yes, 115 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 Council Chair, yes.
Of contractors and the work that they have been offered or assigned or contracted for?
Okay, we will give you a list of the committed firms, the solicitation. We will give you a copy of the actual solicitation and commitment form that would identify who, how much, and what they're supposed to be doing.
No, that they will be contracting with -- not -- at the point that we submit you the list, it will be commitments versus what they would like to do. It will be specifics.
Yes. The list that we will submit to you will be the firms that Motorola or their general contractor will be using on those 116 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 particular items.
All right, okay. Excuse me one minute, I just want to be certain. . . What are the maximum coverage limits on the million for the professional liability and 8 umbrella insurance when the contract is over 9 52 million? 10 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: This total 11 program has been reviewed by Risk Management, and 12 they have accepted it. And in reality, the value 13 of the contract, the 52 million, doesn't relate to 14 the potential liability. And the 25 million 15 umbrella liability and professional liability are 16 for incidents that could occur and do not relate 17 to the 52 million contract price. 18 We're looking at the potential 19 liability. I think they're under the -- the 20 insurance that they have is payable for $1 million 21 dollars per occurrence. The $25 million umbrella 22 picks up after that occurs. But there's no 23 relevance between the dollar value of the contract 24 and the amount of insurance that they're 25 providing, and the -- 117 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
And the risk manager's only interested in paying a premium liability to which this contract exposes us. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's correct.
I understand that. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: And Risk Management was satisfied with that coverage, as we are.
Thank you. Are there any further questions for any people who are present in this room to speak? (No response.)
Gentlemen, thank you for your presentation. It was clear and concise. And when you have provided me with the answers to the questions that we've asked I will consider this record complete. (Above answers later submitted and attached hereto.) COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Okay. 118 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
I'd like to ask Mr. Applebaum or Mr. Costello or Joe James one quick thing.
Wait a minute, come back to the table for the purpose of -- we have an amendment, gentlemen, to this bill which we must do. Sir, if you're next, would you just hold on. We'll finish this business and then we'll hear from you, too. Mr. Nutter, will you read the proposed amendment?
Yes, Madam Chair. The first amendment amends Section 1 of the bill 16 to add the following sentences at the end of the section: "The Procurement Commissioner is further authorized to investigate costs, feasibility, and appropriate contractual mechanism for extending the implementation of the municipal radio system to the tunnels, stations concourses, and trains used by the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority (SEPTA) within the boundaries of the City. The results of such investigations 119 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 shall be presented to Council for its review and consideration, and Council's further authorization shall be required as a condition of the City entering into any agreement for the implementation of an underground phase of the municipal radio system." The second amendment, Madam Chair, amends the bill by substituting the attached Exhibit A for the Exhibit A now attached to the bill. For any of the three of you, is it our understanding that the new attachment A is this? This being the book that says "Exhibit A to Agreement for Design and Implementation of 800-Megahertz Trunk Municipal Radio System." COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That is correct. I believe you have two binders.
Well, I was going to ask about that because there was no mention made of that. The other says, "Exhibits B Through N." Do you need those amended into the bill as well? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes, that should be in the bill. 120 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284
The exhibit is the two binders together, the Exhibit A to the amendment and the Exhibit A to the bill. The Exhibit A to the amendment is the two binders together. It's the contract and the set of exhibits to the contract. One very large exhibit, Exhibit A, to the contract and a number of other exhibit. The original bill was set up the same way. Exhibit A to the bill was the contract plus the exhibits to the contract. We are replacing the one Exhibit A with the other Exhibit A. In both cases, the exhibit is the contract and the exhibits to the contract.
All right. So your testimony is that even though we have two binders, the two binders represent the entirety of Exhibit A, and that is now what's being substituted for the original Exhibit A, and you want those amended 121 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 into this particular bill.
Thank you. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Madam Chair, we would request that you suspend the rules of the reading --
So as to permit first reading at next stated meeting. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you very much. You took the words right out of my mouth.
Okay, thank you very much. All right. Please, sir, would you joint us at the table. State your name for purposes of the record. Are you alone, or do you have someone testifying with you?
Mr. Gross, we thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record, spell your name as I have just done, and proceed. Now, you have submitted your testimony, and I need to tell you that it will be set forth in full as though you gave it to us word for word. Can you briefly summarize what you would have said if you had done the whole statement, or do you need to do the statement?
Well, I would like to touch on the statement if I could very briefly. But basically, the gentleman was kind enough to raise and Councilman Rizzo raised a lot of questions that I had on this. I'd just like to speak on it -- expound briefly on some of the facts that you had asked.
Sure. My name is Alex Gross. A-L-E-X. Gross, G-R-O-S-S. I am a reporter and a photographer with the Northeast News Gleaner, which is a newspaper that's been in publication for quite a long time, about 117 years. 123 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 Prior to coming here, I was concerned that the 800-megahertz radio system would prohibit people in the news media from basically being able to impart information to the public, putting us out of business, letting people know about accidents, fires, traffic alerts, shootings, stabbings well after it happened. Now I can see now that that's not going to happen. However, in doing research for this, I came across some -- how should I say? -- information that I would -- that City Council possibly might not be totally familiar with or aware of, and I'd like to bring those concerns to you with the security of the 800-megahertz system. The system -- let me see here. The general public can no longer listen. This might be what you want to achieve but, however, you're going to be doing this at the expense of the following. You do have a lot of private security companies, for example, in Jefferson Hospital Temple Hospital, that they routinely monitor police radio transmissions. When they hear a wanted person in the area who had just committed a crime, they are now able to be on the lookout for 124 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 that person and either detain him for the police or let the police know, Hey, the person that you were looking for just rather than ran around the corner is hiding in a Dumpster somewhere. Without knowing that somebody is wanted, a wanted person could walk into a hospital past the security officer and hide in a bathroom. Nobody's going to know that. The second is, casual people who monitor police and fire frequencies will not be able to -- even though you might not like them to listen, they are not going to be able to also tip off the police as to wanted people. And, again, it was brought to my attention that sometimes when people call the police or call the Fire Department or EMS for a crime in progress, for a fire, or for some other emergency-type situation, sometimes, believe it or not, the dispatchers put erroneously. It's not done intentionally; they're human. It happens seldom, but it does happen. The people then can call back up and say, Wait a minute, that's not what I said. What I said was the following. . . The information could then be redispatched quickly 125 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 and more efficiently. And most importantly, neighborhood police departments are now no longer going to be able to know what the city of Philadelphia Police Department is doing. A lot of them --
When you say "neighborhoods," you mean in contiguous communities outside Philadelphia.
That is correct. For example, Bucks County, Delaware County, bordering towns in Chester County and the like. If they hear that the police are looking for somebody that has just done something wrong and is fleeing, let's say, northbound, up Bustleton Avenue, they're not going to know that because they can't listen and find out that the person who had just done what they had done is going north on Bustleton Avenue. They can be sitting right there and the person who just did a crime drove right past 'em, and they would not know, and they don't have any access to know.
Well, I would ask that you, 126 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 you know, you take that into consideration when you -- if this bill gets passed, that certain people do have an absolute right, aside from the media -- not a right, but it's important for them to be able to know what's going on also. In addition to that, Town Watch people routinely listen in to police scanners while they're doing their patrols. If the police are looking for somebody, the Town Watch people are in direct communications with the police through the radios or through their telephones. Now they know, Hey, the person that, you know, I just passed is wanted.
Okay, thank you, Mr. Gross. Are. There questions of this witness? (No questions.)
You're welcome. There's one other thing I wanted to say if I could. It's not intention of the media -- I thank you for allowing us to -- and especially for Councilman Rizzo for bringing this up. The media 127 5/16/99 PUB. PROP./WORKS - 990284 does not want total, 100 percent access to this system. A lot of transmissions are sensitive. We know right now of drug operations, surveillance operations that are going on inside the city. We're responsible members of the media, we don't publish that information, we don't broadcast it. We're not asking for, you know, presidential protection details. That's none of our business.
Okay, Mr. Gross, I thank you very much. I think we got the gist of your comments.