And it lists two addresses.
Is that correct?
One Red Lion Road and 198 San Meyer Lane, correct?
Got it.
And it has the creation date as April 7th, 2020,
issue date of December 30, 2020,
and the expiration date of December 29, 2023.
Is that correct?
And what is the creation date?
Creation.
Excuse me.
Creation date means like,
we are talking which application.
Can I explain the process a little bit?
When the application was applied,
it was for the unity of use,
not for the new construction.
I issued the permit for the unity of use
after the CBT design was over.
And after that, I had to create the child application.
The application number GP2020-010545
was the child application I created by myself.
child application i created by myself applicant doesn't have to apply for two applications
Applicant doesn't have to...
and then i have issued the permit under this gp202010545 for the new construction and the use
mr hall i'm just asking about 600653 right now okay and a specific question regarding
the creation date versus the issue date. So the creation date, is that the date that the
application is submitted? Yes. Okay. So, all right. So the application is submitted on April 7th,
and then this permit is issued on December 30th of the same year, correct? Got it. Okay.
And here's another screenshot that was provided by council for the city.
um and it talks about and this this box would be what enlarge uh david please
if you can enlarge that it's no problem thank you for asking is that better yes thank you
and mr hall would this would this work description who who enters this information the work
description who is the applicant applicant okay and for zero zp 2020 000 653 um it states five
things correct yes okay one is for the unity of use for the two existing lots for purposes of zoning
whereas the unity of use will be bound by easements agreements and covenants clearly
limiting present and future owners of the lots of parcels to unity of use, which will be recorded.
Number two, and again, this is exhibit we're looking at, we were previously looking at 4A
from our exhibit book. This is 4B. Number two, for the complete demolition of all existing
structures for the erection of one-story partial two-story detached structure and for the erection
of accessory structures. Number three, for use as warehouse, distribution, and trucking and
transportation terminal with accessory offices and vehicle services and maintenance with accessory
structures for employee access, maintenance and accessory vehicle fueling in paren,
providing gasoline, diesel, CNG dispenser and CNG station, end paren, and wash station with
With 1,827 accessory parking spaces, start paren 956 employee spaces, comma, 737 trailer spaces, comma, and 134 tractor spaces, end paren, comma, less than 25 loading spaces and 101 bicycle spaces, period.
Number four, as per enclosed plans prepared by Bowler Engineering, PA, comma, LLC, comma, dated March 4th, comma, 2020, period.
five applications submitted without prejudice to comma or abandonment of comma all prior permits
and approvals period that's correct that's that's the application that was submitted
by the applicant correct for this particular permit number yes okay and i'm looking at number
three um when some well let me back up when somebody puts in an application through eclipse
or even with a paper application they're to utilize the use categories and use subcategories
set forth in the Philadelphia Zoning Code that was first adopted in, I believe, August of 2012,
correct? Yes. Okay. Is a look in line in number three, warehouse, is that a use category or
subcategory set forth in the zoning code? Use category, like warehouse. Okay. Is that,
that answer is yes yes okay is distribution just distribution a use category or subcategory use
subcategory subcategory it says like warehouse and distribution it's like the same like this is the
this in a warehouse is the main use and then it comes together like warehouse and distribution
and then this is under the warehouse distribution comes together with the warehouse well mr hall
is it is you know and just for a moment um can we just check can we have that last question and
answer read back by the reporter i just want to make sure that the reporter's getting what's being
stated by mr hall here so we have a clear record she is kind of hard to understand but i got the
last is distribute distribute i can't say that word distribution use a category or some kind
distributed i can't say that word distribution use a category or some kind of you some kind of
use of category and then she said subcat it's like a warehouse and distribution it's like the
same this warehouse is and then it comes together like a warehouse and distribution and then it is
under the warehouse she's very hard to understand so i just need her to slow down okay talk talk a
little louder okay this would be under warehouse distribution and storage this is the main use
warehouse wholesale distribution and warehouse is the main use this is the yeah this comes
the warehouse distribution and yes okay yeah and again i'm just gonna ask the court reporter
just to whenever there's an issue here, because I think we had a little bit of this the first time
around, and you're not getting everything down clearly, please have Mr. Hall restate or slow
down, because it's important that we develop a clear record in this case. Mr. Hall, isn't it
true that there is no use category of distribution, that it's wholesale distribution and distribution?
It is a category.
This is the category under the wholesale distribution and storage.
This is under the same category.
If you go to the table 14602-3, it's a warehouse.
This is a use time.
So you're saying there is a use category or use subcategory that's just called distribution, correct?
Just called the...
Or is distribution, I'm sorry, I asked that question.
Are you saying that that is a word used in and of itself or does it go with wholesale?
We go by the warehouse. Warehouse is there in the main use.
This is the main use under the table 14602-3.
And the whole subcategory is wholesale distribution and storage.
And this is the warehouse.
okay so there's warehouse yes okay maybe can mr hall turn on her video is that would that be
i don't know if that's helpful in understanding or not yeah that would help me what's that i don't
know if that's possible um but okay so mr hall again there there isn't it true that there is no
So there is no use category or subcategory that is called just distribution, that it actually is wholesale and distribution, correct?
You've got it.
All right.
And then number three, it goes on to state accessory offices and vehicle services and maintenance.
Is there a use category in the zoning code that is simply vehicle services and maintenance?
I'm having a hard time here. You're breaking up a little bit, Mr. Hall.
One second, please excuse me.
So I asked the question, does the use or sub-use category that states simply vehicle services
and maintenance, those four words, does that exist in the zoning code by itself?
Excuse me.
And again, I'm just talking, this is the application, Mr. Hall.
This is the information that was provided to you by the applicant.
Is there some, Mr. Hall, is there somebody there with you?
no i my this speaker is not working today my computer was not working there so yeah
i i'm asking for the help help from help from whom we had this we had this issue we had this
issue the last time where we were asking you questions and there was somebody else assisting
you i mean no offense but we're you are you are being examined and we're looking for your testimony
your testimony only who is who is there with you right now yeah
Yeah. Mr. Hall, are you talking to yourself or to somebody else?
No offense. Mr. Hall, are you getting assistance from someone regarding responding to these
questions? She's coming in now as a panelist. I think she was trying to figure out how to do the
video okay yeah we sorry thank you um my understanding is that she was not able to use
the video uh i don't know if she was not made a full panelist or her video was locked out so that
she was my understanding is that she's just trying to find out if there's a problem on her end yeah
no criticism we just want to make sure that um and again since we have the second well that's
being worked out uh the i might suggest that you know if mr orphanetes wants to establish what the
code says in terms of the use categories can you hear me yeah one minute mr hall hold on one minute
yes i think that uh you know if he wants to present just the uh sections of the philadelphia
code the board could just simply take judicial notice of that um and you know we would agree to
what obviously what the code says um but uh so i i think it would be more fruitful to just simply
show the section of the code and i don't think that needs to be verified by a witness what the
code says but well i think it's i think it's relevant because this is the application part
of our case you know this goes back to our witnesses in general is that what was presented
to the examiner wasn't in the application is inaccurate isn't even in the code let alone
accurate portrayal of what is being proposed by ups and in addition to that is it goes to
whether or not the permit was properly reviewed and issued i and and again i i think it's been
established that the work description that's being shown on the screen right now is what was
presented by the applicant and the code says what it says so again i'm not sure why we need to spend
45 minutes questioning the plans examiner to tell you what everybody already agrees with
this is what the this is the application and the code says what it says and i understand again it
is a legal argument whether this description meets what is provided for in the code that that's
Excuse me, this is Sharon Saleh.
There's no dispute about any of this.
Excuse me, gentlemen, and one other thing before Sharon begins.
I don't mean to put a burden on you, but since there's so many people who will be testifying, if you can just say your name before you begin, that would be helpful for the court reporter and the record.
Thank you.
Sharon.
And this is Sharon. If I can just mention that Mr. Orphanides has 15 minutes remaining in which to question Ms. DeHal.
If he would like to spend his time on these questions, then I think the board will give him some leeway.
And again, I object to the limitation on our testimony. We have no, with all due respect to Ms. Saleta and the board, you know, we clearly have the right. It's well established.
We've asserted this to the board in our prior submissions, all of which we will move into the record to the board.
And all of your objections are noted, Mr. Orfanides. Thank you.
Thank you. Lastly, sorry, David, just for a sec. Could you also make Jais Skaria, as I mentioned before, he is here as a witness for L&I.
I'm not sure if he needs to testify, but again, he says he's not even able to hear the audio right now.
I think he's still in the waiting room.
are you asking that he'd be uh made a member of the panel
uh i think he could be made a member of the panel i don't think he's going to say anything
at this point but yes because apparently i can tell you the city's been having some real problems
with its network all morning so um i almost wasn't even able to make the hearing so yes if
you can make him uh uh at least let him in because i think he's still in the lobby uh if he's in the
lobby he should be able to hear everything so and then i can just let you know later if he needs to
be made a panelist so i'm sorry um pauline it um this is tanya the zoning board administrator
there is no lobby am i correct yes so if something's going on it might be that he needs
to try to find another area where he can try to access wi-fi because we don't have him showing
in our attendee list at all because we can just readily promote him so it might be the
um internet where he is okay i just let him know so he'll sorry he's walking as
Sorry, as you wish, Mr. Reuter, he can also call in on the phone number that is available.
as you wish mr reuter he can also call in on
OK, and he's trying to log in. He's trying to re-log in right now. So he said if he was me to resend him the Zoom link, I can do that as well.
No, he has that. He said he just got accidentally. He got kicked out. But again, our network has been pretty much it's been very problematic all morning.
But anyway, I think it's going to be okay. I'll let you know later. We can finish with Ms. DeHall now.
Mr. Orfanides, in all fairness to you, we just stayed up a few minutes of your 15 minutes, so you still have 15 minutes, okay?
Thanks. I appreciate that.
I'm not the supervisor standing there.
So, okay. And again, Ms. DeHall, you're there by yourself, correct?
Yes, it's okay.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Great. So vehicle service and maintenance, isn't it correct that the zoning code does not have a use category or subuse category that's simply vehicle services and maintenance, that it's either personal vehicle services and maintenance or commercial service, commercial vehicle services and maintenance? Isn't that correct?
And isn't it, well, this property is located in what, the I-2 zoning district?
And it's also located in the Far Northeast Overlay District, correct?
And you are aware that commercial vehicle repair and maintenance and personal vehicle repair and maintenance are both prohibited in the Far Northeast Overlay, correct?
Correct.
All right.
But this is the accessory maintenance.
This is not the main maintenance.
This is for the transportation terminal center.
This is for the accessories, maintenance, as per code 14601-10I.
Like, it is not the personal or commercial vehicle repair and maintenance use.
Okay, I'm not sure I understand that.
This is the accessory use.
This is not the main use.
And it's an accessory use, but isn't it true under the zoning code, Mr. Hall,
that accessory uses are restricted and controlled just as principal or primary uses?
are controlled so if it's not it doesn't say in the code so if it's not permitted at a
principal use it's not permitted as an accessory use is that not correct
accessory use zoning permit is required they apply for the building application
but in this case after the cb design review i mentioned it but accessory use and the
The accessory structure shouldn't be mentioned in the zoning for me.
You don't have to apply for the accessory use.
Mr. Hall, can you just answer my question?
Is our accessory uses there if a use is prohibited as a principal use,