the unity of use documents?
and might might that also include like deed restrictions and whatnot
yes yes yes okay um so uh now mr katuzzi had asked um if the zoning code explicitly uh
addressed unity of uses um would you agree that that you the unity of uses are not explicitly
discussed in the zoning code no it's not right okay but again it has been the policy the department
to allow that for at least the last several decades yes okay all right and again um you know
we believe we'll address the rest of that argument that's essentially a legal argument that again
we're going to address uh at the appropriate time in closing but for now i don't have any further
questions for Ms. DeHal. Thank you. Who's next in line? Mr. Primavera? I believe so. Can you hear me,
Mr. Chair? Yes. Yes, we can. All right. Good. And I'll be brief because Mr. Reuter covered most of
what I wanted to do. So, Ms. DeHal, the property is zoned I-2, which is an industrial classification.
But in addition to defined industrial uses, there's other categories.
Defined industrial uses, there's other categories which are permitted in the industrial district, which would include the uses we're talking about, such as wholesale distribution and storage, as well as truck terminal, trucking depot, etc.
And the permit that was issued actually spells out a lot of, if not everything that's been discussed today.
So there's no hidden element here. We have warehouse distribution, trucking, and transportation terminal. We have vehicle service and maintenance. We have a wash station for our vehicles. And we even have a little business office retail space consistent with what Mr. Reuter just described in the code.
So there's nothing either in the application or in the permits that you issued that's missing from this entire discussion about this development.
No, everything is included.
And are you familiar with the term incidental use?
An incidental use is a use which is embedded in a primary use, and it's part and parcel to the approved use, whether it would be bathrooms, cafeteria, whatever it is, they are embedded within the permitted use.
Now, do you know who Sarah Adamo is?
Yes, I know.
And what's her title within L&I?
Sorry, I know her, but I don't know the title.
Does she have a supervising role with regard to code interpretation within L&I?
All right. Do you recall, and I'll point it out, I think it's exhibit nine in my package.
I'm not going to ask anyone to look at it now, because if I touch something, it'll break.
But does she sometimes review code interpretations to assist the examiners?
Yes, if you have to discuss.
All right.
And just for the purposes of the board, you'll see the correspondence with my office and the solicitor's office and Sarah Damo,
where she confirms what we heard today from the examiner in terms of the as of right nature of
these uses. With regard to the unity of use, are you aware of the solicitor's opinion
where the city solicitor authorized the unity of use procedures and process?
Yes. All right. And I don't have that number, but I know it's in our exhibit package as well.
Yeah, I'm not going to ask you to review it. You've been more than helpful already.
So with regard to this development for UPS, do you believe it's similar to Federal Express, maybe Superior, Postal Service, Amazon, these types of uses as being appropriate for I2?
I'm going to object because we don't know what those specific uses are, what the applications are.
We don't know any details as far as what he's asking.
I think any, I think any, even anybody, including myself, would understand that there's very similar, very similar type of business.
There can be, but there can also be differences.
Without more detail, I object to this line of question.
If she, if she knows.
Overruled, overruled.
All right. Ms. DeLau, have you issued permits for these types of facilities
in similar districts, I-1, I-2, including on property owned by the Philadelphia Industrial
Development Corporation? Yes. All right. So city-owned property is being developed for these
uses, and I assume the Postal Service has been around for more than a few years? Yes. So these
uses and these permits that are being issued for these uses aren't something that you or
Al and I have never considered before.
All right.
I don't think I have anything more since I do believe all of this is a legal issue
and everything's in the record.
So thank you.
I have a question.
it's fleet management which is a city a city facility would you happen to know what those
facilities are are a zone what classification what kind of facility like they have different
Like they have different kind of facility, what kind?
kind of facility what kind well fleet management is where
Well, fleet management is where the city vehicles go
to have repairs made, mechanical repairs, bodies, repairs.
So I'm just curious if they're zoned,
if they are zoned industrial or not by two.
I just was curious.
Your Honor, I can check that for you.
I think you might be thinking about the one
at 11th and Wharton.
well i'm thinking yeah i'm thinking of not there are a number of them throughout the right right
many of them many of them to be fair probably predate the zoning code uh but uh but i'll
certainly we can look into that um and we can certainly update the board and everybody else
about that i can do that actually well i have a i have a reason for asking that even with police
stations and fire administration building and all those are not their main uses aren't for
distribution of they're not fueling station uh designated but they do have fueling stations
attached to them and that's not the main use correct like a fire station for instance it
would be kind of silly if they weren't right for for vehicles city-owned vehicles right regardless
if they're fire department related or not can go and fuel up their cars okay right um i i i just
wanted to uh to notify everybody because uh mr primavera asked a question about uh ms adama's
title she is the legislative affairs manager and zoning administrator for the department of licenses
and inspections and uh as we stated before she is unavailable uh and won't be available for a couple
months so thank you for your explanation thank you mr mr mr are you rest yes thank you reference to
her statements we have no ability to to bring her before this board to ask her questions regarding
that communication. So we object to its use to this proceeding as being improper and should be
disregarded unless or until Ms. Adamo can be presented to this board for us to question her
regarding her communications. Well, again, the communication involved the applicant's counsel
as well as the law department. So we don't need Ms. Adamo to talk about what's in the communications.
they speak for themselves no they don't i don't know we don't know what they were what she was
thinking her reasoning just like not even a little bit relevant that's not relevant yeah
no it is relevant if she's going to make a statement we have the same ability to question
her just like we questioned mr hall about her communication well we kind of didn't agree on
that either just to remind you but okay and and i just and the regarding the questioning or the
question regarding the city depots, you know, well, I object to that whole line of questioning
regarding these other uses that, you know, school, I objected earlier, when Carl raised it, I objected
earlier, when Len raised the school comparisons. When we're talking about those types of applications,
they say it's a school or it's a depot. They don't say it's a school with accessory assembly
and entertainment or with accessory sit down restaurant. They say it's a school. Here you
have an application where they called out specific accessories. If they just left it a trucking
transportation, trucking and transportation terminal, and then gave the basis of why the
repairs were minor, that'd be a different story. But they specifically called out accessory here.
So the comparisons that Mr. Reuter used and Mr. Primavera used don't apply here, because in this case, their application and their permits call out accessory uses, which means that anybody who has a use that may not have it being incidental may use these accessory uses.
Again, this sounds like argument.
um but the use of the comparison we're going to move on Mr. Primavera you you're arrested correct
yes I have no further questions um who is up next
yes I can come back and ask Mr. Hall a few follow-up questions I'm going to object to that
I think we've spent enough time with Mr. Hall answering the same questions uh over and over
again by at least two attorneys at this point so we're going to move on to the next witness
all right and again i object to that because there were some issues that were raised
by mr reuter and mr primavera and this is the hall answer that i wasn't able to address on
my initial questioning of her thank you sir with all due respect
i think the city said they had a second witness
um we do have another witness uh yeah mr scaria i don't think it's really necessary to present him
because uh i think he was he was just here uh sort of as a backup in case it was necessary
I think he was just here sort of as a backup in case it was necessary if there were.
But I think, you know, Mr. Hall actually covered everything that needed to be covered.
He is in a supervisory capacity of plans examiners at L&I, has familiarity with the Eclipse system.
I think there previously had been questions about processing through Eclipse.
But again, I think Mr. Hall covered that earlier today.
So, Jice is here, Mr. Skaria is here if the board would like to hear from him, but I'm not sure that it's necessary.
I mean, if you want, I can ask you.
Excuse me.
Yes, Sharon.
I'm sorry.
um mr writer i think the board announced at the beginning of the session that they would hear
someone in a supervisory position only to the extent that he would confirm that he has reviewed
the permit and that the permits or permits issued comply with the zoning code and were properly
issued by right beyond that i don't okay then i'll just go ahead and ask that then um yeah and i and
I would ask that I have the ability to cross on this matter, too, to confirm what he's
reviewed and to the basis for his opinion.
You can confirm that he reviewed the final permit issued and that it conforms with the
I mean, I would think that we would need to establish what his opinion is based upon and
what he reviewed in order to make that determination.
And that would be our line of questioning in that respect.
That seems to be a long way around getting an answer that I felt was very obvious.
But Mr. Reuter, let's bring him on.
I apologize.
I don't pronounce his name.
No problem.
Mr. Skari, could you just state your name and spell it for the record?
Well, first and last name, please.
Hi, my name is Jace Skaria.
My first name Jace, J-A-I-S, and last name Skaria, S-K-A-R-I-A.
I represent Department License and Inspections.
I'm an engineering service supervisor.
Do you swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Thank you.
Thank you.
Right. Sir, are you familiar with the permit application that was submitted for
one Red Lion Road and 10098 San Meyer Lane? Yes. Okay. And did you have an opportunity to review
some of those documents? Yes, I have reviewed the documents. Okay. And were you also present for
at least part of today's discussion? A portion of it due to technical difficulties. Okay. We're able
to hear Mr. Hall's testimony? I did hear a majority of Mr. Hall's testimony, a little bit of
Mr. Orkney as well. Okay. And with respect to the permits that were issued to allow this proposed
use, first of all, with respect to the unity of use permit, do you believe based upon your review
that that was appropriately issued? Yes. Okay. And how long have you been with the Department
of Licenses and Inspections? More than 10 years. More than 10 years. Okay. And with respect to the
permit that was issued to allow the use as a trucking terminal and a warehouse distribution,
do you believe that was also appropriately issued? Yes. Okay. And do you agree that, say,
minor repairs and fueling of vehicles is part of is incidental to the main use of the trucking
terminal yes that that is what's referenced in the definition okay and would you also agree that
incidental retail sales are permitted for warehouse and distribution yes that's what's
reference as a definition. Okay. Uh, I have no further questions.
Any questions?
I have a few brief questions. Mr. Cattuzzi, please proceed.
Mr. Esquiera. Uh, my name is Joe Cattuzzi. I represent Sam.
Mr. Cattuzzi, I'm sorry to interrupt. Um, Mr. Hall, I think you're not,
you don't need to be here anymore. Cheli,
you can leave or at least disconnect your video and audio um you could be certainly free to watch
but you you can yeah you can go now thank you mr hall thank you i've completed review of mr hall
so thank you mr hall for being dismissed all right mr skiera asking scaria did you review as
part of the unity of use permit did you actually see any of the easements or any of the restrictions
No, I didn't go over that documentation. I know that a unity of use was issued for that lot. I know, as you referenced previously, you didn't think that was referenced as one lot, but per the unity of use agreement, as long as that permit is issued and all the documents were provided, it is recognized as one lot under the zoning.
No, I didn't go over that documentation. I know that was a unity of use was issued for that lot.
under a zoning. Was there any consideration? I'm sorry, can you say that again? I didn't mean
to interrupt you, but was there any consideration given to placing restrictions on the use of the
driveway across 198 St. Meyer Lane to protect and limit the traffic generation? I don't think
unity of use goes into that it just it's just reviewed as a continuous lot but to answer your
question i do not recall okay all right uh no other questions yeah i was referenced as a witness
um i didn't get enough time to look over all the documentation in detail um however when i know a
unity of uses reference if the documentation is referenced it's it's reviewed as a as one lot
in zoning purposes when it comes to building purposes that is not the case
thank you um any further questions mr katuzzi uh no not this time um i would also like uh sorry
before uh mr orfanidis goes forward i just want to point out that yes it's it's correct uh mr
scurria did not have a full opportunity to review anything it was intended that we would present
uh george persio but he um has moved on to greener pastures and no longer is uh with the city so
that's why we we changed the witness which we notified everybody about last week i believe
sure uh mr scurria um so you've been with the city for 10 years um can you go through what
your various positions have been and what the um how long you've been in those positions
I was a building plans examination engineer from May 2011 to May 2019, and I have became a supervisor since.
So I've reviewed zoning, building mechanical, and fire suppression design for all the buildings in the city of Philadelphia.
So you've been a supervisor for a little over a year.
A little over two years.
Two years, correct.