COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania February 17, 1999 9:30 a.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA CIBOTTA VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO MARIE HAUSER, Chief Clerk VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 401 PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE I N D E X Bill No. 990023 Joseph C. Certaine . . . . . . . . . . . . . 402 Managing Director Diane Granlin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 421 Deputy Managing Director for Prison Population Donna Wolfe . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 429 Director, Targeted Assistance Program John F. Timoney . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 482 Police Commissioner Thomas J. Nestel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 510 Deputy Police Commissioner Charles Brennan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 515 Deputy Police Commissioner Mr. Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550 Deputy Police Commissioner Commissioner Harold Hairston . . . . . . . . . 652 Fire Department Commissioner Joan Decker . . . . . . . . . . . 656 Department of Records Commissioner Joan M. Reeves . . . . . . . . . . 662 Department of Records 402 PROCEEDINGS
This is a continuation of Bill No. 990023, Committee of the Whole. Our first witness this morning is the Managing Director. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record, and proceed with your testimony.
Before I go on, I would like to offer congratulations on your move to become president of City Council for a female president.
Good morning, President Verna and Members of City Council. I am Joseph C. Certaine, Managing Director of the City of Philadelphia. Today I am here to present testimony and to propose the Managing Director's Office Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2000 and to answer any questions you may have. The total proposed operating budget for the Managing Director's Office for Fiscal Year 2000 is $10,380,834, which includes $6,513,581 in the General Fund and $3,867,253 in the Grants Fund. 403 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 The FY 2000 General Fund budget request represents an increase of $100,271 from Fiscal Year 1999 estimated obligations. This increase includes $46,129 in additional Class 100 funds to support negotiated wage increases and $54,142 to fully fund positions for staff in all divisions of the Managing Director's Office. The budget in the Grants Fund contains a decrease of $2,982,040 from Fiscal Year 1999. The majority of this decrease is the result of spending $3,047,000 in FY '99 from two grants to fund the construction of a compressed natural gas refueling facility at the airport and the acquisition of alternative fuel vehicles. Traditionally, the Managing Director's Office provided oversight support and assistance to the 13 operating departments that it directly supervises. In the last few years we have dramatically changed the way we provide services to the department and to the citizens of Philadelphia in order to address the complex problems like urban blight, graffiti, and some elements of the crime fighting mission facing the City. 404 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 The MDO now plans and coordinates projects that enhance municipal service delivery across departmental lines, ensures that the department's critical service delivery performance levels are met and maintained, and works closely with neighborhood community development corporations, business associations, community leaders and political leaders to develop innovative methods of targeting service delivery. Over the last two years the planning analysis unit has played an integral role in several initiatives including: the deployment of Mobile Data Terminals in the Police Department, including one in each 911 patrol vehicle ensuring that the growth of Philadelphia's communication infrastructure plan to minimize the locations in which unsightly communication transmission towers are placed. Working with the Department of Public Property to negotiate the renewal of the City's cable franchises; designing and implementing service improvement in the Streets Department daily operations, including the collection of refuse and recycling; street maintenance and winter weather 405 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 operations; establishing and maintaining standard operating procedures for prompt, efficient ditch restoration. Developing a GIS system that displays city-wide utility projects graphically in order to track pending street work by all utilities and better coordinate the work; working with the state and federal governments to develop an acceptable -- that should be local state and federal governments to develop an acceptable plan for the transition of the Naval Base -- that's the transition of jurisdiction to the City of Philadelphia for the Naval Base. Conducting a comprehensive review of environmental priorities for the operating departments in order to develop a blueprint of the City's environmental priorities and coordinate environmental compliance; providing assistance to the Police Department to help institute changes brought about by Police Commissioner Timoney. Coordinating ongoing monitoring of the operation, maintenance and support of contracts for the Curran-Fromhold Correctional Facility, and the maintenance of the City's Triplex; and developing 406 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 new requests for proposals for food and health services provided to the inmates of the Philadelphia prison system.
Next year the staff will continue with departments -- continue to work with departments to increase their overall effectiveness. Key focus areas will be: implementation of new maintenance contracts for the Curran-Fromhold Correctional Facility and a new alternative female correctional facility; the expected negotiation and award of the 800 megahertz radio system; and the negotiation, award and implementation of the Philadelphia prison system food and health services contracts. In addition, the MDO and the Mayor's Office of Information Services will chair the Technology and Telecommunications Subcommittee for Philadelphia 2000 to help meet the wide array of technical and telecommunications needs of the 2000 Republican National Convention. In May 1996 the Managing Director's Office and the Mayor's Office of Community Service and the Recreation Department assumed primary responsibility for the City's anti-graffiti initiatives. 407 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 You will hear testimony next week on the City's comprehensive anti-graffiti campaign during the Mayor's Office of Community Service's budget testimony, but I do want to touch on a few of the components of the program that the Managing Director's Office is currently involved with. I served as the chair of the Graffiti Operations Committee, which provides oversight, policy guidance and coordination for the City's comprehensive anti-graffiti efforts. Second, and one of the most telling examples of the program's success, the Graffiti Abatement teams removed 25,745 instances of graffiti during Fiscal Year 1998 and are projected to clean approximately 32,745 instances of graffiti from the five zero tolerance zones and other neighborhoods throughout the city in Fiscal Year 1999 and a total of 34,000 in Fiscal Year 2000. Finally, the Managing Director's Office, through anti-graffiti voucher program projects, will distribute 11,000 gallons of paint in each Fiscal Year 1999 and Fiscal Year 2000 to community groups for neighborhood graffiti removal and prevention. Since the city instituted a special 408 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 events policy in May 1993, the Managing Director's Office has coordinated the City Services to make possible such events as parades and festivals, which has been successful in recouping a portion of the money the City spends on these events. To date approximately $312,000 has been billed. In FY '99 and 2000 we anticipate collecting an additional $90,000. Although special events revenues do not reimburse the City the full cost for supporting these events, they do help to defray the City's expenditures and allows groups to recognize that the City incurs significant expense to support such events. Some of the most remarkable examples of the success of the MDO's interdepartmental coordination are the Partners for Progress and Town Watch programs. Partners for Progress, established in 1994, is an innovative community development stabilization program to improve the delivery of municipal services to the neighborhood through a partnership of government action and civic responsibility. 409 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Members of municipal operating departments, the office of Fleet Management and the Mayor's Office of Community Service converge on targeted areas to clean streets, remove abandoned cars, clean and seal vacant homes, clear inlets, fence vacant lots and remove graffiti. Partners for Progress spent part of FY '98 and most of current FY '99 as a critical component of Operation Sunrise helping to revitalize community participation in the fight against neighborhood crimes and drugs in the East Police Division. Town Watch groups, block captains, and anti-drug organizations have joined forces with the City's public safety and public works partners, through the Partners for Progress Program to rid their neighborhood of crime and blight.
In addition, the City will dedicate a total of $1 million in FY '98 and '99 for the demolition of imminently dangerous buildings in the targeted Partner for Progress zones. The City has also formed a Year 2000 Steering Committee comprised of myself, the Budget Director, the Chief Information Officer and 410 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 representatives from the Mayor's Office to formulate its response. That's a response to the Year 2000 millennium bug. The strategy developed by the Year 2000 Steering Committee is twofold: remediation and certification of existing systems and contingency planning for possible system failures. As a first step, the Mayor's Office of Information Services has begun an inventory of all computer systems used throughout the City to assess the probability that each system could be affected by the Year 2000 computer problem. As part of this review, the City has also began working with its vendors to help ensure that as many vendor-supported computer systems are Year 2000 compliant as is possible. C. in December of 1998 to discuss the impact of the Year 2000 computer problems on large cities. The conference, which was the first of its kind, presented an opportunity for city officials to discuss Year 2000 planning efforts 411 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 unique to large cities, and learn how other cities plan to provide municipal services in the event the computer systems fail. All contingency plans are expected to be complete by April of 1999, so the City can conduct the citywide Year 2000 simulation and exercise in May of 1999. The City's goal is to have completed testing all upgrades of technology and finalizing all contingency planning by July 1, 1999, a full six months before the Year 2000 problems are scheduled to occur. In the last four years the MDO has vastly increased the City's support for providing to communities trying to make their neighborhoods safer, cleaner places to live and work. 5 million to support Town Watch anti-drug and anti-violence programing. Between FY '95 and '98 the MDO coordinated the distribution of 1,345 radios and 400 cellular phones, roughly three radios or telephones per Town Watch Group, and over 35,000 sets of T-shirts, jackets and cash. 412 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 In the same four years the MDO awarded 521 cash grants, totalling nearly $310,000, to Town Watch Groups. In each of Fiscal Year 1999 and 2000 the MDO expects to distribute approximately $200,000 worth of additional equipment and grants. The MDO also provides financial support to the Philadelphia Anti-drug, Anti-violence Network, which operates under the agents of the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Council -- Coalition. PAAN mediates neighborhood conflicts and provides neighborhood-based education intended to turn youth away from drugs and violence. In addition, the MDO distributes grants for neighborhood anti-drug activities to address the problems of violence and drugs among the City's young people. These funds have been used for mentoring programs, youth organizations, trips for neighborhood youth and educational programs to inform young people about violence, AIDS, drugs and the criminal justice system. In recent years the MDO has designated three Deputy Managing Directors to coordinate the 413 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 City's homeless service system, accessibility compliance and prison population management. The Deputy Managing Director for Special Needs Housing is charged with obtaining shelter, beds, food, kitchen sites and job training for clients served by the homeless services system. By securing these services on a citywide basis significant economies of scale are achieved. In addition, the Deputy Managing Director has helped the City develop a long-term strategy for moving clients from large shelters to transitional and permanent housing and continues to work to temper the impacts of Welfare reform on the City's homeless system.
In response to the safety threat posed by the prison cap, which listed the number of inmates in custody in the City's prisons which -- which limited the number of inmates in custody in the City's prisons to 3,750 at any one time, the position of the Deputy Managing Director for Criminal Justice Population Management was created. The Deputy has worked with the First Judicial District of Pennsylvania, the District Attorney, the Police Department, the Prison System, 414 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 and the Defenders Association to secure release from the federally imposed prison cap and to ensure the prison population is maintained at acceptable levels. With the suspension of the prison cap in November of 1995, the City has instituted several affirmative procedures to manage population -- I'm sorry, several alternative procedures to manage population levels. The Deputy Managing Director for Accessibility Compliance is charged with coordinating the Americans with Disabilities Act compliance activities of every city department and agency as effectively and efficiently as possible, while providing citizens with disability access to all public services, programs and activities. 6 million to bring city facilities and streets into structural compliance with ADA. The City has installed curb ramps at over 12,000 city intersections and expects to renovate a total of approximately 70 buildings and facilities in order to improve access to the disabled. The Office of Emergency Planning 415 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 coordinates contingency planning for the City and interdepartmental activities during emergency situations. In order to increase the effectiveness and efficiency of the City's emergency response mechanism, the MDO has made significant improvements to the Emergency Operations Center over the past few years including: the addition of computerized reporting and tracking systems and redundant notification procedures; the development of a Neighborhood Evacuation Center Network; the evaluation of the types of vehicles and the equipment necessary to support emergency response; and the establishment of the City's Emergency Management System Local Area Network. The Office of Emergency Management administers a Hazardous Material Response Program under the federal Superfund Act and the state Hazardous Materials Act. Since the inception of that program in May of 1992, $926,000 of state grants and hazardous chemical fees collected from chemical manufacturers in the City have been used to purchase equipment, supplies and training. 416 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 During FY '99 an additional 145,000 in hazardous chemical fees and $94,000 in state matching grant funds will be used to purchase the necessary resources for emergency personnel to combat nuclear, biological and chemical hazards. To date the City has received training and equipment totalling over $300,000 from the federal government and expects to have received a total of $650,000 in supplies and equipment by the end of Fiscal Year 1999. In September 1998 the City took part in a federally administered full-scale nuclear, biological and chemical crisis simulation designed to test the City's ability to respond to a chemical or biological terrorist attack. The exercise, the first NBC-response exercise for a major city in the nation, required close coordination between the City, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Department of Defense, the Centers for Disease Control, the Pennsylvania National Guard and state and federal health and emergency management agencies. The City received high marks from the federal government for its timely response, high 417 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 level of coordination between agencies, and adherence to the best practices for these types of emergencies. The MDO is also responsible for coordinating the City's response to snow emergencies.
In late 1995 the MDO led the effort to reestablish the then defunct Snow Emergency Routing System. As a result the City is now better equipped to handle snow emergencies by ticketing and towing vehicles left along the 110 mile route system after a snow emergency has been declared in order to make them accessible for emergency response vehicles. And I should also add that we are very good at praying to make sure that we haven't had severe winter weather during the last two seasons. The MDO Targeted Assistance Program provides employment-based social services to refuge communities, primarily to people from Southeast Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe. With the continuing implementation of the Welfare program, these employment-related services are increasingly critical in moving people from Welfare to work. 418 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 In FY '99 the Targeted Assistance Program received $1,112,453 in grants from the United States Department of Health and Human Services to improve services to refugee populations including a $500,000 grant to help improve access of elderly refugees to area aging services and increase the number of elderly refugees applying for citizenship. Through the grant funding, which is expected to continue at 1999 levels, the Targeted Assistance Program will provide similar services in Fiscal Year 2000. 2 million in Fiscal Year 1999. 7 million in grant commitments and incentives to supplement city capital funds for long-term energy conservation projects. A large portion of the savings over the 419 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 next few years can be attributed to the successful negotiations with Trigen-Philadelphia and PECO Energy to reduce the rates the City is charged for steam and electric respectively. S. S. Department of Energy. In the 54 months since its creation, the Police Advisory Commission has received 515 individual allegations of police misconduct. Of this total, 301 cases, or 58 percent, have been closed while 204 cases are currently under investigation. Ma'am President, this concludes my testimony, and I'm now available to answer any questions.
Thank you very much, Mr. Certaine. 420 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 In your testimony you state that the Criminal Justice Coordinating Office has worked diligently to ensure that the prison cap was lifted. The prisons have requested an FY '99 appropriation transfer in excess of $5.7 million due to an increase in the inmate population. What steps is your office taking to ensure that another prison cap is not placed on the City? Also, you mentioned about alternatives to incarceration that your office is exploring. Can you tell us about what the alternatives are and what the safeguards are to the citizens of the City for these alternate programs?
Ma'am President, if I may, I would like to call Deputy Managing Director Diane Granlin to come join me at the table.
I will say that a part of the large increase in the number of arrests and incarcerations is due to the increased activity on the part of the Philadelphia Police Department and its more aggressive position on crime fighting throughout the neighborhoods in Philadelphia. 421 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 The programs can be addressed by Miss Granlin.
Thank you. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Diane Granlin, Deputy Managing Director for Prison Population Management. The first part of your question was what efforts are we making to ensure that another cap will not be reimposed. I can say that we have a legal team in place. The City has retained Hangley, Aronchick, et al., several years ago to see to it that the ongoing Harris litigation could be wrapped up expeditiously. And we believe that it will be and that there will not be a cap reimposed. We have taken a number of steps to reduce the population. First of all, we have entered into an agreement with Delaware County to accept 200 of our prisoners. We have entered into an agreement with the Department of Corrections for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to take 50 of our prisoners. We have continued to develop alternatives to incarcerations. Since 85 percent of 422 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 the prison population tests positive for illegal drug use upon admission, it's clear that in order to maintain an acceptable prison population, we have to somehow treat that problem. And so in conjunction with the First Judicial District, the Defender, the District Attorney, and CODAP, the Coordinating Office of Drug and Alcohol Programs, we have developed the Forensic Intensive Recovery Network, which is a conglomerate, actually, of different kinds of drug treatment programs that address different kinds of needs for this population. At present we have over 600 active clients in that program. We have 40 in the prison awaiting transfer into programs outside.
Almost all of them are located within the City and County of Philadelphia. 423 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023
And when you mentioned about some people being incarcerated in Delaware --
It won't be crime- specific. It probably would be sentenced prisoners of a certain custody classification.
Mr. Certaine, you indicate that your office has assumed operational responsibilities for the Year 2000 contingency planning. Exactly what steps is your office taking and how much money is the City spending in order to become Y2K compliant?
Madam President, let me clarify. The Mayor's Office of Information Services has overall responsibility for the effort that the City of Philadelphia is mounting for Y2K. That is primarily through the computer systems and networks 424 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 that have been set up. The responsibility of the Managing Director's Office is not any different than it normally is with the operating side of the government to make sure that the municipal operating departments can continue to provide municipal services in the event of a systems breakdown caused by the millennium bug. To that extent, we have begun to identify, or we have identified all of the possible failure points for any of the systems that are in the process of developing the contingency plans that would allow the operating departments to continue municipal services even if the automated systems go down. The cost involved is primarily being handled through the department's operating budgets. There have been some instances where, for example, the Police Department and a couple of other departments have had to get some additional equipment related to Y2K. But on the whole most of the departments are doing the work well within their operating budget. And we treat it as we would any other severe emergency, except for this one we can 425 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 plan for. So it allows us to project what we would be able to do in the event of. It is a terribly important exercise for the City, but I do not believe that there is an inordinate amount of money being spent by the department. And each of those operating departments, as they come to testify before the Council, will be prepared to provide that information.
Thank you. What is the budget for Partners for Progress and FY 2000, and how do you propose to use these funds?
Madam President, once again, Partners for Progress is not a budgeted item. What we do with Partners for Progress within the department's operating budgets with no 23 overtime, we ask the Commissioners for a small element of their department, which we then forge into a strike force that we move around the City on 426 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 regular time. There is no overtime involved, no 3 weekend work. So we don't do anything that would in any way, shape or form upset or inflate the operating budget of any of the singular departments that are involved in the program. Now, along with what we have been able to do with Operation Sunrise, the Police Department has been able to generate funds through federal sources to pay for some of the overtime costs involved in their activity and generate revenues from other grants and sources of revenue through the federal government that have been able to help their efforts. But for the non-uniformed departments, there is no -- there is no budget item listed because there is no budget for it. And that's the way we have been operating since 1994.
Thank you. I have other questions, but we will have the first go-around of the committee members. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you. Good morning. 427 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023
Does the Sweep Department Program come under your department?
No, Councilwoman, it doesn't. It comes under the Streets Department, Sanitation Division, yes.
Okay. All right. You stated in your testimony that you had additional staff -- did I see that someplace?
No, ma'am. We talked about the increase in the Class 100 budget for existing staff.
Well, I guess I want to know how much staff do you have reporting directly to you in your office?
Ma'am Councilwoman, that is information I did not bring with me today. As you know, the Managing Director's Office and the Director of Finances Office have a considerable number of assistants and deputies that are assigned to the office but do not necessarily work directly for the Finance Director or for the Managing Director in my case. So what I can do is provide that 428 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 information for you and break it down with the number of people who actually report to me day-to-day in my office and the number of people who are assigned to other departments and agencies throughout city government.
Okay. And you will specifically outline the duties of those --
Yeah. We do have the information available. We've made it available for different reasons from time to time. And I will make sure you get that as quickly as possible.
Okay. For the Target Assistance Program, which provides employment-related social services to refugees and entrants who recently arrived from Eastern Europe, Africa and Southeast Asia, would you explain a little bit for me about that: Who runs that program; how was it run; and what was the outreach?
Yes, ma'am. The Targeted Assistance Program is a long-term program of 429 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Managing Director's Office that has been in existence for more than a decade, as I recall. I have with me the person who is responsible for running that program, Donna Wolfe, who will step up and answer your specific questions.
As you know, I have a large Asian population in my district and some Russian refugees. And I would like to know what services -- how they access the services? And how do you -- how do you do outreach to those groups?
Good morning. My name is Donna Wolfe. I am the Director of the Targeted Assistance Program.
The outreach is -- first off, the regulations for service provision to refugees was changed by the Federal Office of Refugee Resettlement and a five-year cap was put on the service provision. So your eligibility begins when you first arrive in the United States and ends at five years. So possibly the Southeast Asian population is beyond that five-year point. 430 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 And then their services are supposed to be provided by mainstream providers, by their employment or Social Services. So they're actually outside of the federal funding stream regulations for refugee services. The outreach primarily to the largest -- single largest population we have in the City of Philadelphia are refugees from the former Soviet Union. And those refugees primarily reside in the Northeast section of the City of Philadelphia. And we cohabit a community office in the Northeast. We have other office locations in Center City. And we use fliers and public assistance offices. But again, our primary population comes from the Boulevard District and the Central Refugee Services Unit of Public Assistance. The primary goal from the onset in 1984 of Targeted Assistance was to move people to self-sufficiency through job placement. And our service is primarily direct placement. Those recipients or referrals that we receive from the income maintenance offices, we try to match immediate employment opportunities to. 431 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 And we recently, within the past couple of weeks, we have been talking about making a joint action when a person is referred by Public Assistance to a job, that would be written into their public assistance letter of intent, you know, that the client has to sign, so that we will be able to streamline that movement of the person from Public assistance to a job. We don't have a deficiency of jobs right now for our populations.
Yes. Well, we share an office with the New World Association off of Bustleton Avenue, Bergen and Bustleton.
Okay. And you say the services for other refugees from -- who have been here for a while, those services are coordinated by who?
Well, there are small grants that are given by the Federal Office of Refugee Resettlement to community groups; the Cambodian Association of the Greater Philadelphia, the Laos Association, the Ethiopian Association. 432 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 And they have some ability to outreach to the folks who were here over the past five years. And sometimes our goal has been to try to encourage organizations to link up and mainstream with existing service providers so that they know that there is a neighborhood base of services available. So we don't want people just to be kept in their community, we want them to access, for instance, the area of Aging Services.
Councilwoman, if you have any other questions, do you mind if we have a second go-around? We have other people that want to ask questions.
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Managing Director, good morning.
Good morning, 433 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Councilwoman.
Two questions, one or two issues. Would you keep me informed in terms of the -- now, you mentioned police and you mentioned drug addicted people, what we are doing in that respect. Would you do me a favor and make sure that I know how that relates with this Sidewalk Bill? How many people have -- automatically go into drug rehab? And how many people are ticketed? I am just interested to see how that plan will be working.
Yes, ma'am. We haven't initiated that yet, but at your request we can do that immediately.
Thank you. Just to keep me informed in terms of the Sidewalk Bill, that would be fine if you never initiated that but... And No. 2, I just wrote Greg Ross another letter this morning. Will you check into for us public restrooms? There is no public restroom for men or women, I am told, on the fifth floor. And on our floor at the northeast corner of -- 434 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 the jury uses it, lines are in the hallway, and we can't get to use a restroom. The other end near 438, there is a public restroom for woman that has been locked for about two years. So that one, and I don't know what is going on with the one on the third floor. But they seem to say they are going to repair them. They locked them, and it just takes us out of a restroom. They got jury lines last Friday lined way up into the hallway, and you can't get to use a restroom.
Councilwoman, what I will do is check on that today, and have the appropriate person from the Department of Public Property contact your office.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Clark.
Thank you, Madam President. 435 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Good morning, Mr. Managing Director. How are you today?
Please describe for me some of your -- I am not good today -- your Y2K contingency plans. Assure me that it's all in good hands, and we are not going to close up clam-fashion and watch the century roll by us.
Well, Councilwoman, we can't do that. As you know, the Mayor has invited half of the known world to Philadelphia for the transition of the Year 2000, so we are not allowed to do that. I must say that we are in the process right now of evaluating the contingency plans that are being submitted by the departments. I can assure you that the response of the City of Philadelphia to the Year 2000 transition is in good hands. I cannot assure you that there will not be problems; there will be some. But that is the reason for our planning and the contingency planning of the government. Our role specifically within the 436 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Managing Director's Office, in support of the Mayor's Office of Information Services, is to make sure that the impact, whatever we can do to mitigate it, will be done early on and that our response to any problems that may occur will be more than adequate for the City of Philadelphia. But there are some things that are out of our control, and that is, for example, the electrical power and the impact of not having electrical power on things like telecommunications. But we are working very, very closely with PECO Energy and with Bell Atlantic to review and coordinate our responses and monitoring, to extent that we can, their mitigation efforts on behalf of the City of Philadelphia in those areas.
And are you somewhat assured that they are at least as far down stream at solving their part of the problem as you are as a municipal government?
Yes, ma'am. I can assure you that the utility companies, both PECO and Bell Atlantic, are working diligently. We've had several meetings with them. And it is not just pressure from the City, as we've met with ten other -- I'm 437 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 sorry, with six other large cities and shared and pooled our information on this. So it's not just the large jurisdictions that are putting pressure on electric utilities and telecommunications to be forthcoming with their compliance activities, but it's also federal and state government entities like the PUC here in Pennsylvania that are trying to make sure that the compliance efforts are met on a coordinated schedule. The schedule for the City of Philadelphia is not unlike the federal schedule, the PECO schedule, the Bell Atlantic schedule. Our water department has moved full-speed ahead for several months now in making sure that they will be ready. And all of our municipal departments are working in a coordinated manner to share information and help each other get things done. But as I said, we -- it is in very good hands in the City of Philadelphia; however, I cannot assure you that there will be no problems. I can say that any problems that do occur, we will respond to adequately.
Well, let me assure 438 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 you, because I am just so certain that the people who have the responsibility don't dare run the risk of not fixing it. Now, I have some things that bother me: The Y2K problems are way below the midpoint of my list of things to worry about.
Because I think it is in the hands of the people who can't afford, where losing is not an option. So I think it is going to be all right.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning, Mr. Certaine.
I have a couple of questions, and the first one is regarding the Zero Tolerance Zone Designations. And in part of my district those zones 439 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 are scheduled to end. And quite frankly, you know, it has really made a difference on Germantown Avenue. And we would like to know: Is there a definite end date? And if so, can they be renewed for another three years, and so on and so on?
Ma'am, Councilwoman, you will have to forgive me. I was not aware that we imposed a closure date on the Zero Tolerance Zones. I can check that very quickly for you.
Right. Because I think it was maybe three years. Because I have started to get letters from community groups that is saying that the Zero Tolerance Designation is due to end in a few months.
I don't believe that is accurate, Councilwoman, but I will check it to be sure.
I know from the Managing Director's Office, we have no intention of in any way, shape or form diminishing the effort that has been demonstrated Citywide at the request of Council and with the cooperation of the Mayor's Office, to 440 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 make sure that what we have designated as Zero Tolerance Zones or Graffiti-free Zones, that those clean up efforts and response efforts will be maintained continuously. And I believe that Deputy Managing Director, Tom Conway, has done an excellent job in implementing that program from the time we first set it up. So I am not aware of that, but I will double- check it just to be sure.
Okay. I think I remember a while back that there was some stated time associated with some of the zones, but maybe that's changed.
Okay. And my second question is regarding the Partners for Progress program.
I would like to get information on the breakdown of where the census tracks are located. On your chart you report that you basically addressed 170 units in census tracks, so I 441 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 would like to know where they are.
It is a pretty hefty amount of information, but I can make sure it gets to you.
Okay. Well, I think district people want to know where they are being served and what is happening. I think Partners for Progress is an excellent program. We have had it in a few of our census tracks, and want to continue to have it in more. When I read that you have translators, are those translators available for say my office, if I have someone come in who is maybe Spanish- speaking and I don't have a Spanish-speaking person on my staff? My district is very diverse and we have all types of people that live in the 8th District. And how can we access the translator program -- the translators you have with the Refugee Program?
I would like to have 442 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Donna Wolfe answer that question for you, Councilwoman, if I may.
Some translation services are available for City Services through the Targeted Assistance Program, specifically, for -- in languages for refugees from the former Soviet Union or for Southeast Asian languages. We translate pamphlets and materials, for instance, for Philadelphia More Beautiful and street sanitation materials. We regularly do that.
Yeah. We don't provide that service. To the extent that I know of, the Police Department from time to time has been able to provide translation services, particularly for populations that have difficulty with the English language, but the Managing Director's Office does not have that kind of direct access to interpreting services. 443 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023
Well, I was informed about a week ago that maybe it's Public Property, I am not really sure, that contracts with agencies to the interpreters. I was at a meeting last week and the meeting was on disabilities, hearing impaired and physically challenged people. And we got a volunteer from the Pennsylvania School for the Deaf to actually do the signing. And someone said that the City does, in fact, have those kind of people available.
Councilwoman, I am being informed now that the Health Department may have such a contract, but we don't through the Managing Director's Office. Another area where we may be able to have that would be under the Americans with Disabilities Act Compliance for people that may have certain disabilities, but through the Managing Director's Office, we don't have a contract like that.
Councilwoman, 444 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 your five minutes is up. You will have to wait for the second go-around. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Certaine, I don't have any questions, but I do have a comment. All of the Deputy Managing Directors that I deal with in your office are extremely competent and qualified, and really, after all of these years of being in government, still care. Sometimes, you know, you get to the end of the second term and people are like, get me out of here, I don't want to do this anymore. But they really are all still engaged in what their responsibilities are. And what you have asked them to do and what we've asked them to do, they are always forthcoming and do their best on every occasion that I have had contact with them. But specifically, I wanted to highlight, and you mentioned him already, but the anti-graffiti 445 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 people under Tom Conway. And I want to mention their names for the record because they are the people that actually go out and do the grunt work. Ed Gousak, Dennis McGowan, Tim Farnan, Jim Cinnebella, Stevie Black over at the warehouse, that whole crew of people are truly dedicated public servants. They take graffiti personally. It bugs them when they get into an area and they clean it and they come back and check again that there is something else on that wall, right out of their truck and get that stuff down. So I wanted to publicly thank them and thank you for allowing them the ability to do their job. And they really do care and are concerned about what our neighborhoods look like and what is going on in our communities. And I just wanted to thank you.
Councilman, on behalf of the Anti-graffiti Network in the City of Philadelphia I would like to thank you. All of those people and all of the people in the Managing Director's Office feel a very, very special commitment to neighborhood issues and neighborhood 446 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 leadership. And I must say that the level of cooperation that we've gotten from district and at-large Council people like yourself in giving us requests or making us aware of things we need to take care of without any confrontation, no 8 animosity; we work together as a pretty good team. So I would like to -- I thank you on their behalf, and I am sure that they will be glad to hear your comments.
It's a pleasure working with them. Thank you. Thank you, Ma'am.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you very much. I have a question about the vacant lot program. Could you tell me the process for getting a lot cleaned and fenced? And there -- I understand there is a passport for vacant lots. Is your office --
Councilwoman, your microphone is not on. 447 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023
Councilwoman, the procedure for cleaning and fencing vacant lots really is as simple as a telephone or a letter request from a district or At-Large Councilperson. There is no complicated procedure on that. We usually respond to those things, they go on a list. And as we get into an area or as we finish up one area and have additional work to do, we usually respond to those. We do check -- one of the things we found is that sometimes requests come in from people who just want their lot fenced and maybe can't afford to do it themselves or something like that. So we do check the ownership of some of the lots just to make sure we are not doing anything in conflict. But essentially that is the way it is handled. Everything comes in, it is put on a list, we generate reports by councilmanic district. And we try to respond to Council requests on cleaning and sealing vacant lots. As people call us, individual citizens or groups call us, we refer them to their district 448 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 councilperson to make sure that we are not getting requests from people other than the Council people. Now, for departments that may have a problem with that, I think your second reference was to the Commerce Department's Vacant Land Reuse. There is a large committee within the government that deals with the reuse of large parcels of vacant land, associated with brown fields and some of the old industrial sites. That is a program that is largely driven by the Philadelphia Commerce Department.
No. I think that former Councilwoman Fernandez had set up this --
Yes. But we were not included in that, Ma'am. That was primarily the Department of Commerce. Councilwoman Fernandez neglected to invite the MDO to participate in that. Now, we were in the process of evaluating all of our environmental concerns at the time that the Councilwoman was putting together this effort. And they have merged because many of the large parcels that are under discussion have environmental problems. So there is a natural overlap. And we are involved in some of the 449 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 mitigation efforts there. But it is primarily driven by the Department of Commerce on the economic development side of Philadelphia City government.
Are you saying that -- you don't fence private property, right? You only fence --
Yeah. We try to avoid fencing any kind of private property.
So you fence basically lots that are owned by the City?
So I have about 14 letters here that I've sent you for vacant lots. And so I need to know from your office if these lots are city owned or if they are private.
Yeah. And we can give you the status of any of those requests. We keep a database. And so we can check the ownership of record, and we can also give you a status on any request that you've sent to our office.
Well, one lot specifically, is at the corner of Upsal and Forest. And for years we have not been able to identify the 450 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 ownership. We suspect that it is owned -- I think at one point we came to the conclusion that it was owned by the City.
Right. And we did have it cleaned one time. And what we tried to say is that you clean it and put the chips on it and you fence it, then you cut down on constantly doing it over and over again. I can't seem to get that lot done. It is right on the corner; it is an eyesore, and it does belong to the City.
Okay. That should not be a problem. One of the things that we found with placing chips on lots is that sometimes we contribute to infestation by different kinds of bugs and other varmints. So we've stayed away from placing chips lately. If you remember -- if you remember when the chips were being placed in Logan, it caused all kinds of problems. They would pile it and not spread it out, and we had all kind of infestations in that area. 451 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 But for a lot the size -- I believe I know the lot you are talking about. For that size lot, it shouldn't be a problem. We do not have -- we would have to get one of the contractors that make chips available to us, or through Fairmount Park, to put the wood chips down to reduce the growth of grass and things like that. But we can definitely clean the lot and fence the lot, too. It shouldn't really be a problem. I apologize if it has been a problem, but it shouldn't be a problem.
A bit of a problem. I like -- we can give your office copies of these requests that we have made.
And I would like to know if they are individually owned. And if they are city owned, I would like them cleaned and fenced.
And I know it's expensive, and I am not the only one making this request, but I do believe we have to find the solution to how to handle the lots. 452 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 A couple of them in my area, we've worked with community groups on maintaining. One at Vernon Road and Mansfield, that little triangle there. That little lot is being kept and maintained by residents on the 8000 block of Michener. And then we have the lot at Washington Lane, Mansfield and Stenton, that is maintained by the neighbors down there. To the extent that that can happen, it is very good for the community. But absent of that, I think it is just a waste of money, too, to continue to have the city employees constantly clean the lot. We need to come up with a solution on how we -- maybe sometimes you ought to blacktop it.
Well, that is not my decision, ma'am. That would really have to come in conjunction with the neighborhood groups and district councilperson. I will say this: It is much easier, I agree with you, it is much easier for the City of Philadelphia to work in conjunction with community organizations that will take some responsibility and some ownership for helping to maintain lots like that once the City cleans them. 453 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Because we would much rather prefer to work with a community group to maintain a property than to constantly come back and tie up municipal resources and departmental resources for cleanup all the time. So you're absolutely right. If we can -- if your office can send that over to us or fax it over to us, we can take a look at that and give a response within a few days.
Another question is: If you have a large piece of land that is not city owned, but is presently up for sale or just laying fallow, do you -- what do you do to the owners? Is there any contact with the owner to get them to clean the lot or maintain the lot?
In most cases something like that, through the Department of Licenses and Inspection, can be cleaned and then billed to the current owner, to the owner of record for that parcel. Large parcels like that are the target of the land reuse, the committee that you spoke about earlier, for exactly what can be done from an economic development perspective: to reuse the parcel, to have it developed or reused in some way 454 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 or to generate -- the ideal would be to have it back on the tax rolls where it is generating tax revenue. But the problem with large parcels with the agency would be to contact the owner and even to clean the lot and bill the owner similar to a demolition that would have to occur, an emergency demolition, or clean and seal for a large property where the owner could be billed, the owner could be located and billed for.
Okay. Because we have other Council people who are waiting.
Okay. On the Police Advisory Commission, I note there are several vacancies. What is the process of filling those vacancies? Does this administration plan on filling those vacancies, or do you plan on leaving them for the new mayor to fill? A number of the members' time has expired.
Yeah. The Commission itself and the filling of the vacancies on the 455 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 Commission is really not an area of jurisdiction that I have been involved in. Those recommendations have been formerly proposed by the Mayor. And I believe, if I am not mistaken, this Council may have had a role in determining who that membership might be, but --
Excuse me, please, the Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter, for point of information.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Councilwoman Tasco, on Thursday resolutions will be introduced to reappoint many of the members of the Police Advisory Commission to fill those vacancies. Most of the members want to stay; they have continued to serve even though their terms have expired. Virtually all of the vacancies will be filled after those resolutions are introduced and public hearings are held.
I will come back. I do have one more question, but I will come back.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Certaine, back to the response that you gave Councilwoman Tasco regarding lots and the chips on the lots. And you made reference to varmints. Are those four-legged or two-legged that we are concerned about? What is the definition of "varmints"?
Well, it is just a term I use to describe -- to describe -- primarily, we have had several bug infestations in large amounts of wood chips attributable to --
You are a very good Managing Director. You actually took that question serious; you were going to run with that ball and 457 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 try to proceed down a path to get to an answer. I really appreciate that.
Councilman Nutter, I take everything that I do while I am sitting here with this Council very seriously.
I understand. Let's talk about fences. I understand the varmints. I'm well aware of some myself.
Just to see if you are paying attention. You have been up there for a while. Your response to Councilwoman Tasco, though, was that we seek to fence lots owned by the City. What I wanted to inquire was: What do we do with the privately owned lots, often corner lots, although, obviously, sometimes middle of the block, as a result of demolition or something like that? In many of those cases, those individuals are either not around, because they may have been the occupant of the now demised house or abandoned the property some many years ago, or they are dead or they are in another part of the country. 458 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 What are we left to do with those vacant lots, which must outnumber the number of city owned lots in comparison?
Councilman, I was in error in that response. We do -- it is not just city owned, but one of the priorities are parcels that are associated with demolition. Whether they be corner properties or within the block, it is important for us to respond as quickly as we can to recent demolitions where the integrity of the block can be better maintained, if we respond to a demolition that took place in the middle of the block and get a fence up before it becomes a short dumping location. Those are very high priorities. In fact, I would say that that is the highest priority of the fencing program, to do fencing in association with any demolition except for very large parcels. In those situations, we try to work with the Department of Licenses and Inspections to use jersey barriers rather than chain link fencing. It is more economical that way.
Is it easier and more efficient than if you know that a demolition is 459 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 coming up, other than the emergencies? But if you are anticipating or have made requests for a demolition, is it better to make the request primarily to L & I that fencing be a part of that particular demolition? Because I don't know whether demolition companies have people who do fencing as a part of their company. Do they contract it out? Is it a part of the job? Or are we just left in a situation where demolition is done, those people go away, they level the site, and then we come running over to the MDO's office and say, there was a demolition three months ago, can somebody get back there and put a fence up? I mean...
It would be a much better practice to include in the bid, in the demolition bid, fencing of the property, the footprint.
As a part of the demolition occurrence, absolutely. In fact, that is the thing that used to happen. Somehow we have gotten away from that, but 460 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 that is absolutely preferable, because then we could use the limited resources that we have available to take care of other vacancies that are not part of a demolition scenario.
Lastly, in the realm of the Police Advisory Commission but not about board members, more on the operations standpoint, it is my understanding that either complaints and/or investigations are slightly up this year over last year. And I continue to have a concern, I guess, about personnel or staffing level resources that are -- that are available, and whether the numbers are going up just on the Police Advisory Commission side or even on the Internal Affairs side. We have to assure that the entity can function and operate at a reasonable level. Do you have any particular perspective on that at this point in time?
Well, I believe the Police Advisory Commission should have the tools and the personnel to do its job. I know that Mr. Soto has put in a request for the Fiscal Year 2000 budget that calls for additional staff. 461 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 It is my understanding that through our budget process that that request has not been granted. That is something that this Council should consider, and any other questions about the volume of cases should probably be answered by Mr. Soto, who is here with us.
I understand. No 9 problem. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
I just want to pick up on one of the questions or comments about the vacant lots and fencing. Fencing and jersey barriers are generally put up to prevent people from backing their car or truck into that vacant lot for the purpose of short dumping. Along Frankford Avenue in the northern part of my district over the last couple years, 462 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 through the efforts of the New Kensington Civic Association and other groups, a major effort has been made to remove the jersey barriers, and in some cases even remove the chain link fence. But in more cases than not, it was the jersey barriers that were being removed. And I understand the purpose of them, again, and I am not criticizing the effort to put jersey barriers up. But they generally act as a canvas for graffiti and really don't stop the dumping of trash. In their place what has been done for the last two years is trees have been put in in place of jersey barriers. And what it does is it aesthetically -- it makes the area look a lot more cleaner and enjoyable when you drive through there. But it also accomplishes the effort to keep short dumpers out. So they have removed the jersey barriers and put trees in. Have we ever looked at doing that on a citywide basis, as opposed to using the jersey barriers and chain link fence? Because what happens with the chain link fence, in a lot of instances, people cut through that and it becomes a maintenance 463 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 problem, an ongoing maintenance problem. So I was just wondering if anyone has ever looked into that, and if not, could we look into that and see what the cost over the long run would be? I think it might be a savings. You don't have to worry about coming out and removing the graffiti from the jersey barriers, and you don't have to worry about maintaining the fences. And then what happens in a lot of cases, and again, I am not being critical, when you put a fence up that has a gate, the gate is locked, and generally nobody has the gate (sic) except someone from one of the City's departments, whether it is Streets Department or Public Property. And if people want to get in there to clean it, you have to kind of make a lot of arrangements to get in there and cut the grass. But when the trees are put up it creates like a park-like setting in the middle of these lighted areas. And it really makes for a much more attractive area in which to live and drive through. And Frankford Avenue is a perfect example. If you were to take Frankford Avenue 464 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 from Girard Avenue northward, up until about Cumberland now, where most of the effort has been put in, it is really amazing the transformation that has taken place over the last two years.
Councilman, that effort has been largely the initiative of community organizations with private -- with foundation money or private grants. The City has not, at least during my tenure, has not been involved in planting trees in programs like that. I would turn to the Fairmount Park Commission for that kind of effort. And one of the things that I would venture to add on this is that although it might introduce some savings down the line, the initial installation say per running foot, per square foot of jersey barriers or chain link fencing, I am sure would be probably less expensive than the planting, you know, the initial installation of young trees, that would eventually mature to provide the kind of setting that you are describing. So I can just say that the Managing Director's Office has not been in the tree business. It is something that can be looked at. 465 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 If there is a way to do it economically with existing resources, then it is something that I would also -- I would recommend that. Because you're right, jersey barriers are definitely a canvas for graffiti, and a large part of Tom Conway's efforts and his people is cleaning graffiti off of jersey barriers that have been put up around --
That is my point. I mean, in the short run we accomplish what we are trying to do by preventing short dumpers from entering the lots, but we have an ongoing maintenance problem, where if you do trees, the maintenance is very limited. I mean 25, 30 years from now they may have to be trimmed, but that's a long way off. And in the short run, it may be a little bit more expensive to do the tree plantings. But I think over the long haul, we actually would save. And, again, I don't know the numbers, your department can find that out better than I can. But I think it is something that I would ask that you look into.
There have been other 466 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 suggestions, too. Some community organizations have suggested wooden rail fences that are more aesthetically pleasing, might not be as expensive as trees and are just -- they contribute more to the visual aspects that you are describing than either chain link or jersey barriers. The problem with that is the cost per running foot is prohibitive. So we are kind of with chain link and jersey barriers, because for right now, from what we can see, it is the cheapest way to obstruct access to these lots that we have. But, that does not say that there is not room for a closer examination just to see whether or not it is more economical --
Well, again, on Frankford Avenue, the lots that have been transformed into what I call little community gardens without much effort from the community other than planting trees, the short dumping has almost virtually disappeared.
Now, the Philadelphia Green Horticultural Society, they are very much involved in that kind of activity, and I can talk with Blaine Bonum (ph) and just see, you know -- 467 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023
Well, I'm saying, if all of the departments that you just mentioned and the community groups were to partner, it may drive the cost down.
Because the community groups want to do these things, and with a little help from the, you know, resources that you would put into a jersey barrier and/or the chain link fence in addition to what Philadelphia Green and Fairmount Park might be able to do, I think it is something we can accomplish.
And it just really says something about the neighborhood. It really makes it a much more attractive place. And again, I am not criticizing --
The other question I have is, to go back where Councilwoman Tasco was concerning a short dumping also, do we have any 468 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 facilities in the City where citizens can bring bulk trash to on a regular basis?
Right. And I am not speaking about construction material. I am talking about the homeowner who for some reason just doesn't want to keep the refrigerator in their yard until trash day, for some reason they think it's more convenient to put it on the back of a pickup truck, drive around for two hours until they find a desolated -- an isolated area and then dump it.
With the doors off, absolutely; they are safety-conscious, not trash-conscious. Do we have any of those sites? And here is where I am going with this: If we look at the 469 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 cost involved in maintaining vacant lots, removing trash, and a lot of these lots are repeatedly dumped on, even with some of the efforts with the jersey barriers and the chain link fence, and if we can figure out -- could we look for sites throughout the City, vacant land that we have where people could bring certain types of material on a regular basis? Because we have the effort to go out and clean up these lots anyway. We are spending a lot of resources. I think it might be less expensive for us if we had designated areas where people can come to on a five-day-a-week basis, whatever, bring their trash as opposed to having it scattered all over the City.
Councilman, that suggestion makes me very nervous because what we would do would be increasing the number of short dumping sites or inviting people to use these sites for more than what you are talking about. I would -- if I may suggest this, the Streets Department will be making their budget testimony presentation at a later point. I think that that may be something you want to ask them.
I will raise that 470 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 with them also.
And I will also talk with them about it. But my concern there is that -- and I will give you an example, and Councilwoman Tasco can attest to this -- during the blizzard of 1996, we had problems with trash pick-up because of limited access to some of the streets for one reason or another. I am not going to get into that part of it. But we designated a couple of locations around the City and one was in the lot off of Cheltenham Avenue up near Temple Stadium. We designated that as one of the locations where a city trash truck would be for people to bring their trash for a specified period of time. Once the trash truck left, that site became -- first, it was done at our invitation. When the trash -- when the sanitation division left, that site became a large -- a huge, dump site for trash.
Councilman, I just wanted to use that as an example. And what happened, it was compounded by the fact that more snow fell and 471 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - BILL NO. 990023 it froze, and we had trash there until the Spring. But once you do that you invite -- it is a Pandora's box.
I just remember years ago when 7th and Pattison in South Philadelphia, people were allowed to bring their trash there. And I don't know if it was just the fact that the incinerator was there that people were a little bit more conscious about trash or just behavioral practice.
Well, Councilman, you have got to understand that what we did years ago --