I see no one, Mr. Chair. With that, I'm going to ask, does the court reporter,
do you need a break? Because we're going to have to come back and I don't see how we're
going to finish this case today. So do you need a break? If so, we can take 10 minutes.
I'm doing okay. I appreciate you checking in, but yeah, I'm doing all right. Thank you.
Okay. Mr. Matione, you have...
Chairman, unless you had public comment, I think the case is done.
I don't think anybody else has any witnesses.
I'm going to ask that now.
Any of the attorneys have any further witnesses or comments?
You're muted.
Outside of closing argument, I have nothing further to add.
I don't know if there's other public comments to take, though.
Before I do that, how long do you think your closing argument will take?
Probably five minutes.
I mean, you know, there's one other alternative, Mr. Chair.
We take the public comment and we send in written closing arguments so that we can get the case over with today.
My closing is not going to be more than five minutes, if that.
Let me ask this.
And is there anyone else out there who would like to testify in this case?
And if so, please limit it to something new and different.
I don't know what can be new and what can be different, but maybe I'm missing something.
i'm mr chair and miss kathleen foster has her hand raised i will allow her to speak at this time
ms foster please wait to uh be sworn in good morning ma'am please spell your full name and
i'll swear you in can you hear me yes please spell your full name and i'll swear my name is
kathleen foster k-a-t-h-l-e-e-n foster f-o-s-t-e-r we're all firm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth? I do. You ready for me? Yes, please proceed. Thank you. Thank you,
Chairman DiCicco and to the members of the Zoning Board. I have submitted a letter to you. I'm not
going to read it again. I'm just going to summarize the major points. I have been a curator for more
than 40 years and my first job in Philadelphia was at the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts. I
was 10 years the curator of American art there. That's when I first met Isaiah Zagar. And since
2002, I have been the head of the Department of American Art at the Philadelphia Museum of Art.
So I've watched Isaiah Zagar and his work for decades. And I've given a lot of thought to
Philadelphia and its artistic traditions and its history in the arts. I've also, in other capacities,
served as an arts commissioner and as a historic preservation commissioner. So I think it's
pretty clear what side I'm on here. I'm going to defend the mosaics as an important artwork
and as an important piece of Philadelphia's culture and important to its sense of place.
And I'm not going to repeat really arguments that have been made before. What I'm bringing here is
the longer perspective of an art historian and a museum curator who's been watching Isaiah Zagar.
And I'd like to make this statement just because I think the choices here are not just about the
neighborhood, and I'm full of respect for the neighbors' concerns, but I do think that the
decisions here affect the artist's legacy and the city's heritage. So first about the artist's
legacy, I think we all know or remember now that the Painted Bride was Zagar's first big public
monumental project. He made it over nine years. It's gigantic, and it basically has transformed
what was a really plain vernacular building into something very special, something remarkable and
memorable, truly fabulous. And it is not, to go against the earlier comments, it is not just one
of 220 mosaics that Mr. Zagar has made in the city. It is one of his two most important mosaics
in his career. And so to the comments earlier about the Sistine ceiling, I would say if you
I would say if you had the Sistine ceiling, would you say, well, that's fine. We'll just break up the David because we've already got a good work by Michelangelo. We don't really need his second work. So I'm saying we need both of these. They're both fabulous and important.
had the Sistine ceiling, would you say, well, that's fine, we'll just break up the
Then I would say that it is a signature piece for the artist. It's a landmark, an accomplishment in his career, and it's a signature also for this neighborhood. I think it's a marker of the Bohemian high spirits of the 1990s in this neighborhood, of the success of the Painted Bride in its early days, the revitalization of the Old City.
all of this, I think, is in this particular work of art. And I think because of the rapid
development of this neighborhood, we are at risk of losing this special character, of losing this
history of the neighborhood. And this is a building that especially reminds us of the
spunk of Philadelphia, of the artists who live among us, of the artists who transformed this
neighborhood. And so if we lose these mosaics, I think we're going to lose a major achievement
by an internationally recognized artist in our midst.
I think it would be awful for the city
to allow the destruction of this mural
when an alternate plan exists.
And I would say also, I'm a little skeptical
about the terminology here of development,
negotiation, saving portions of the mural.
I don't think you can save portions of this.
I think it's a total work of art.
and I shudder by the idea that somehow fragments of it would be saved in a new plan.
So I think that we would, I would love to approve, you would approve this creative plan. I think that
has been proposed by the architect, an elegant solution that has been recommended by architectural
critics. I think the variance that protects the murals and maintains the artistic spirit of both
the murals and the legacy of the Painted Bride. Now, as a last note, I would just like to comment
on the continual evocation of the fact that the murals were not protected at the Historic
Preservation Board. I would like everybody to be remembering then that the ruling recognized it was
a tie vote, and the chairman voted in favor of the Painted Bride, that is to not designate the
murals, recognizing the hardship of the painted bride. And that was what changed the vote there.
And many of the commissioners felt that the painted bride would be in stress if they had to
protect the murals. At this moment, the painted bride is on the side of this development. They
are actually not speaking at this hearing because they are supporting this proposal. And so the
situation that occurred during the Historic Preservation Commission, I think, has been
resolved and they are happy now to see a proposal that would both um protect and acknowledge the
historic and um and artistic importance of the murals thank you very much
thank you for your testimony i believe mr ross andy ross would like to uh may i just ask one
follow-up question of miss foster this jennifer visit low yes um miss foster i just want to
clarify you are not a resident of the neighborhood correct i am not i'm a resident of fairmount thank
you ross thank you mr chairman this is andrew ross a-n-d-r-e-w r-o-s-s i live at 257 north 2nd
street uh about a half a block down vine street from the painted bride and i just want to very
Hold on, please. Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do. Please proceed. To be brief and different. I wanted to reference diversity
in the neighborhood of Old City. We often think of diversity as people, but diversity is also
place. One of the reasons I moved to and like living in Old City is the diversity of the built
environment. It's not just a sea of residential. You can walk to shopping. You can walk to
restaurants. You can walk to art galleries. Many of those places don't just exist, but also
host events that are interesting and different, and you get to mingle and interact with people
both from your neighborhood and from outside. Just as an example of the corner where I live
at 2nd and Vine. One corner is open because it's the PennDOT right-of-way. On the other three
corners in the last four or five years, one corner has built three large townhouses, one has built
six large townhouses, and the other one was the gas station, which is about to build 11 large
townhouses. That's not
That's not very diverse. And I think that as we lose commercial spaces in the neighborhood and they all become residential, we lose a lot of the character of the neighborhood.
very diverse and
I think that as we lose
And I would like to see this proposal go forward because it not only adds new residential, but it does so without sacrificing and tearing down the ground floor space that would be preserved at the Painted Bride.
in addition to the mural that you know we've all talked about the mural so I just wanted to say
something on behalf of a neighbor who does not support demolishing the painted bride would like
to preserve it along with the diversity of other spaces that we have in the neighborhood thank you
thank you Mr. Ross Mr. Maddione do you have anything to say because I'm going to advise
every, all the attorneys to submit written test, written testimony as it relates to your closing
arguments within two weeks, no later than two weeks. Do you have anything, Mr. Manioli, before
we move on? Mr. Chairman, I have nothing further. I have no witnesses, as you know, and I think that
we've heard from a lot of people and I have nothing further to add other than I will submit
my written closing argument for your directive. Thank you. Any objection from the other attorneys?
No objection.
I think two weeks should be sufficient?
You agree?
Thank you all.
Thank everyone for your time.
And we will take a five-minute break before we move on to the next case.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman.
So we'll take five minutes, and everyone will be back in five minutes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yes, Chair.
I apologize I forgot planning I guess it's it's not too late is it um I think the attorneys might
have left already did we give them uh written um they have to give written testimony about
their closing argument um however I defer to Mr. Letta of how to handle this
and legal guru.
Ms. Saletta, you there?
She might be making calls, Chair.
We're trying to work around for a couple cases today.
Yeah, I'm just wondering.
If we get planning to give its testimony,
could we offer that in writing to the attorneys?
That's the question.
Again, that's Ms. Saletta's call.
I don't try to overstep my boundaries.
Chair, I will call her to discuss and get right back with you.
Thank you.
So the plan would be, we can allow Planning Commission to give their statement now.
and then provide a written statement to all parties that was before you today.
And then again, once a decision is made,
allow the written statement to be read in the record at that time if that worked for the board
allow the written statement to be read in the record at that time,
if that works for the board.
worked for us thank you and i apologize again no problem thank you
one of those days okay um i'm sorry that to the planning commission i failed to ask your
uh for your recommendation uh on the painted bride case so please proceed and just identify
yourself you don't have to spell just say who you are and we'll move on sure thank you chair
this is aisha unver with the planning commission so this proposal is consistent with the comprehensive
of plan recommendation to preserve culturally, historically, and architecturally significant
buildings, sites, structures, and districts. While this property is subject to a 65-foot
height limit and floor area ratio of 500, the preservation of the existing mosaic creates
a hardship for the applicant. In addition, there are multiple existing buildings in the immediate
area which exceed the height limit. Therefore, PCPC staff supports granting the variances for
height and far the variance for occupied areas due to an expansion of an existing condition
above the podium the project complies with the 80 maximum occupied area therefore staff supports
granting supports granting the variance for occupied area thank you very much and i apologize
again for bypassing you sorry about that and chair if i could um request on the record if
Ms. Unver could provide that statement written
in a letter format to the board
so that we could provide it to the parties
who were not currently present.
I will prepare that and send that to you, Tanya.
Thank you, Asha.
Thanks everyone, thank you again.
Okay, I believe we go to number six on our list.
MI 2020-001120-348 Green Lane.
A letter of opposition from Central Roxborough Civic Association.
Mr. Michael Malloy is the attorney on record, I believe.
You made a panelist, sir.
Good morning, Mr. Malloy.
Please identify yourself with the record.
Spell your full name and I will swear you in.
Good morning, Mr. Chair.
Michael Malloy, M-A-L-L-O-Y, with the law firm of Obermeyer, Redmond, Maxwell, Hipple, 1500 Market Street, Suite 3400, Philadelphia PA, 19102.
Thank you. You swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Thank you very much.
Mr. Malloy, you agree to waive the reading of its refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
We do. Thank you.
Have you emailed an exhibit packet with the required documents, proof of ownership, proof of tax compliance, copy of the refusal or referral photos and plans five days prior to this hearing?
We have, as well as a supplemental packet of exhibits delivered yesterday.
We added a few exhibits. Apologies for not sending those ahead of time, but we wanted to add a few more.
And have you met with the RCO and have a letter?
We do have a letter. We met with the RCO.
Thank you. Please proceed.
Thank you.