I was going to make a suggestion, Mr. Chairman.
I'm not trying to, I'm trying to be, move this matter along.
I know that it's late today and you've been patient hearing it so far.
My suggestion was that if you're going to hear from people in the virtual audience, you go forward and hear from those people today, that you then continue the matter for the applicant to post the appropriate signs.
And the reason I say that, this is somewhat of a cause to leaven.
Why don't we do this?
Why don't we do this?
Hillary, why don't you respond about the signs for us?
so there is not a requirement since the applicants have to print their own signs that they
be on orange paper um so that has that has been the case since hearings went virtual because
it was impossible to require people to obtain orange paper to print them
so it is okay for them to be printed on white paper so that is not a violation of the code
provision okay so so mr feyman here here's what we're going to do we're going to we're going to
hear from the virtual audience today uh we're obviously going to have to have another hearing
after that i mean so but we're going to get started and see how many of these we can get in today okay
i think that that's more than fair mr chairman all right mr laver do you understand that too
Mr. Chairman, my understanding from Ms. Emerson's very clear email to all counsel in this matter is that we would proceed first today with the members of the public, and then the board would make a determination regarding the amount of time remaining.
Mr. Chairman, my understanding from Ms. Emerson's
So it may be possible that we finish today, but we shall see.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Chair, we have Richard Snowden. Okay, we had Richard Snowden. We have Anne McNiff. Anne McNiff, please unmute yourself and wait for the chair.
Good evening. Could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer?
Yes. Hello. My name is Ann McNiff, A-N-N-E. Last name is M-C-N-I-F-F.
Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
I am not. I'm the executive director of the coordinating RCO.
All right. Please proceed. Thank you very much.
You're welcome. I'd like to read a brief statement from the Chestnut Hill Community Association.
Good evening. My name is Anne McNiff. I am the Executive Director of the Chestnut Hill Community Association, the Coordinating RCO for Chestnut Hill.
After a series of public meetings involving the applicant, near neighbors, community members, and our own group of planning and design professionals,
the Chestnut Hill Community Association voted to support the applicant's request for variances for 209 West Chestnut Hill Avenue, a.k.a. Greylock.
We believe approval of these variances will accomplish several important objectives that will benefit the entire Chestnut Hill community.
Most importantly, it will return a unique and historically significant building to an economically and socially productive use in a matter that accentuates the building's historic architecture and is within the parameters of the building's conservation easement.
This is not an easy task. After more than 20 years without an occupant due to the confines created by the easements on this property, Greylock has experienced significant physical deterioration and will be costly to restore.
regarding the proposed new buildings it is the majority opinion of the chca's zoning committee
that the buildings are appropriately located on the site to minimize visibility from the street
and surrounding private and public properties are in an appropriate residential density
excuse me are of an appropriate residential density use materials and design themes that
complement the existing historical structures, preserve view corridors in and out of nearby
public trails within the nearby Wissahickon Valley Park, and contribute to the creation
of a desirable residential community. Second, the applicant's proposal preserves almost all
of the 6.5-acre open space area between Greylock and the West Chestnut Hill Avenue, and does so
with a landscaping treatment that is consistent with the existing conservation easement and the
property's historical appearance. This rule requires substantial expenditures to achieve
on-site compliance with current best practice sewage disposal, stormwater management,
and vegetation and woodland practices. Third, at the request of the community, the applicant
conducted a traffic study to determine the effects of the additional residential units
on traffic volumes on West Chestnut Hill Avenue. The study found no significant impacts. In a
related vein, as the project progresses, the applicant has agreed, in the form of a letter
of intent, to consult further with the CHCA and the other Chestnut Hill RCOs about additional
building design details. In sum, we believe the proposed project will generate significant
benefits for the Chestnut Hill community and will do so in a manner consistent with the community's
existing residential and environmental character. We believe it provides a solid solution that will
give new life to a critically important property and therefore strongly urge the ZBA to approve
the proposed variances. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any questions from either attorney?
I do. Yeah, just a few. One of the things that you said
was that this was the majority opinion is that correct that is correct of the zoning committees
was that this was the majority opinion. Is that correct?
yes and that meant that there were some people who felt differently and voted against this proposal
isn't that correct that would be correct and in fact the before this proposal came before
Before the CHA board, it was heard first by two committees.
Isn't that correct?
That is correct.
And one of those committees, actually, there was a tie vote, if I'm not incorrect.
Is that right?
I believe so.
I would have to look at minutes.
It's been quite a while.
Right.
So there was, I think, if I'm not incorrect, there were about five people feeling that they should go forward and about five people feeling it shouldn't go forward.
Do you think that those numbers are approximately correct?
I really couldn't say without looking at the minutes, the exact numbers.
I wouldn't want to misspeak.
But there was a tie.
I don't recall how many on each side.
There was a tie vote.
So that there were a fair amount of people. And do you remember what the vote was of the community association? Because I remember that's a pretty big group, isn't it?
It is. And I actually pulled up the letter. The CXA board was 10 to support and five in opposition.
OK, thank you. I have no other questions.
Mr. Labor.
Ms. McNiff's testimony speaks for itself. Thank you, Ms. McNiff.
Thank you, Mr. McNiff. We appreciate it. Other people in the virtual audience?
Chair, we have Mason Barnett. Mason Barnett, please unmute yourself and wait for the chair.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes. My name is Mason Barnett, M-A-S-O-N-B-A-R-N-E-T-T.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I affirm that. Are you a, are you a neighbor? I live just up the street at 11 West Chestnut Hill
Avenue. Thank you. Please proceed. I would like to wholeheartedly support the statement from
Ms. McNiff of the Chestnut Hill Community Association. I find it very distressing
that there are neighbors who continue to persist in opposing this wonderful project.
We have, for the first time in 20 years, a developer who has not only the capacity to
develop the land, but also is interested in doing so in a sustainable manner.
He has gone out of his way to incorporate community input into his proposal. That's
not always the case in these situations. He has also hired Viridian Landscape Studio.
Viridian is a local landscape architectural firm that is known for its sustainable designs.
They have created a land use plan that not only protects the Wissahickon,
but creates a beautiful park-like meadowscape in the large part of the property fronting on West
chestnut hill avenue and i think a part if we can get beyond um the argument made by the
opposition um we will see that we will have a well cared for property with new buildings that
are scarcely visible from west chestnut hill avenue and have and are relatively unobtrusive
from the park's lavender trail i personally use that trail i know that when you're entering the
park, you are looking downhill into the valley. You're not craning your neck up to the left to
see any potential buildings there. If you're coming out of the park, you are almost at the
exit and you are transitioning again into the neighborhood. Besides that, we will have new
residents in the community. Philadelphia is shrinking as a city. We need to encourage people
to live here, to work here. And people living on this beautiful property will contribute their
time, talent, and retail dollars. And finally, we will preserve a landmark historic property.
When I think about the size of this property, for where it is, it's huge. And the scale of the
dwelling, it's simply no longer commensurate with current day living demands, even for rich people.
If it were, we would have had a single family come along and fix it up long before now. But no one wants to do that. And so I think that looking at the intent of the code is very important.
If it were, we would have had a single family come along and fix it up.
The intent of the zoning code is to protect the character of the community through density and other things.
And it seems to me that this plan, given the size of the space available, adequately, more than adequately, does that.
and i sincerely hope that you chairman bergson and other members of this board
will see fit to approve the variance requested thank you thank you either attorney have any
questions no thank you mr chairman i have one question ma'am i i wanted to make clear you live
at 11 west chestnut hill avenue was that correct that is correct and we just looked at a map here
would would you agree with me that it's you're approximately i don't know a mile maybe a little
bit less than a mile away from that unit from the from the building from graylock um at most uh
tenths to two tenths of a mile not it takes me ten five to ten minutes to walk down there
according to maps if i told you you were a quarter mile away would you agree with me
i really can't tell you that i'm sorry it's close it's i go past it all the time it's it's i i
understand a couple follow-up questions if i may uh chairman bergman ms barnett thank you very much
for being with us today you just mentioned that you go by the property regularly uh could you
please uh speak to uh how how often you think you go by is it on foot is it driving uh give us a
little flavor? I would say I walk frequently in the park. So I either walk down the street and
enter the park just beyond the property, or I enter through the entrance off of Krefeld Street,
which is on the other side. But I frequently just walk down and pass this property, and I drive by
any number of times um a week and currently what do you observe uh regarding the the condition of
of the premises um the property gets um mowed on an infrequent basis um and it but it is clearly
abandoned it's vacant and it's it's it's sad because it doesn't it doesn't look the way it
could. Thank you, Ms. Barnett. Thank you very much.
Thank you for your testimony. First of all,
another hand, please. Chair, we have Charles Richardson.
Charles Richardson, please unmute yourself or wait for the chair.
Mr. Richardson, you've already been sworn. Just state your name and
begin your testimony. Certainly, Mr. Chair. Charles Richardson,
R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N, Office of Councilwoman Cindy Bass,
room 508 City Hall. The councilwoman is supporting the applicant and also the RCO in asking that you
grant the variance. Thank you very much. Any questions for either attorney? No, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Richardson. No, thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Richardson. Next hand, please.
Chair, we have Celeste Hardister. Celeste Hardister, please unmute yourself and wait for the chair.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell your name for the court sonographer?
Good afternoon. I'm Celeste Hardister, C-E-L-E-S-T-E-H-A-R-D-E-S-T-E-R.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Are you a neighbor?
no i am the development review coordinator for the chestnut hill community association and i
have some further comments from the association okay please proceed i know there are several
attendees today from our rco committees who are concerned about the outcome of this important
property the chca board came to its decision based on all of the factors identified in our
letter of support and in the statement made today importantly it made its decision in
consideration of the opinions voiced by people who attended our public meetings and people who wrote
to us. To quote from our letter to the ZBA, most neighbor input was directed to discussion of
easements which could not be addressed at our meetings. Some expressed dislike of the plans
Some expressed dislike of the plans for aesthetic reasons.
for aesthetic reasons, some expressed
Some expressed concern about density and not being able to directly view the front of the mansion from the Lavender Trail and views of the new buildings from the Lavender Trail.
The Krefeld School expressed concern about the impact of construction on their students, the impact of added traffic, and concerns that residents of Greylock's twin houses will complain about noise from the school.
the chca board did not find these concerns to be valid zoning considerations a few statements of
support were made in writing and at our meetings some suggested that people who are not opposed
were not at our meetings but that they have spoken to each other and are in support and it
came to our attention that due to the high emotions around this project some neighbors may not be
comfortable showing their support publicly. In addition to letters of support that were
directed to Chairman Bergman, and that I therefore will not quote, I will quote from two letters
sent to the CHCA board during our review process. The first states, we must be realistic about the
situation in our city and in Chestnut Hill as it now exists. Philadelphia urgently needs more
housing and after years of deterioration at this property, we can't ignore the possibility that
continued inaction at 209 west chestnut hill avenue will lead to the kind of irreversible
damage that only demolition will remedy the second letter states i regularly walk by that site and
understand that the current proposal will bring back beautiful landscaping to enhance the view
of the graylock mansion and carriage house which have sat vacant for too long i am writing to
support the proposed improvements to this property which will further the residential vitality of our
neighborhood while preserving a beloved landmark in our community to sum up the decision of the
chca board vice president matt rutt made the statement that community is made up of people
and this property has sat vacant for years this plan would bring people back to this property
people to support and volunteer in the community shop and dine participate in our clubs schools
and houses of worship and restore vitality to this corner of Chestnut Hill. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Any questions for either attorney?
Yeah, I just have maybe one or two questions. There were numerous letters, am I correct,
that came to the association that felt that this development was inappropriate. Is that correct?
That's correct.
And they were not anonymous, those letters, were they?
I don't recall whether any were anonymous or not.
But most of those...
Many certainly were not.
Right.
Many of them, they listed their names.
They told you where they lived.
They told you they lived very close to this development.
Isn't that correct?
Well, what is correct is that neighbors are feeling endangered by how controversial this is. So people who are supporting it are feeling that there will be some kind of backfire if indeed they make themselves known. So that's the level of discomfort regarding the situation.
However, there are numerous people who have exercised the right of free speech to tell you that they are opposed to this development. Isn't that correct?
I have nothing further.
Mr. Chairman, yes, just a couple of questions. Good afternoon, Ms. Hardester. Thank you for being here.
Um, Mr. Feynman, uh, referenced numerous letters. This has been a long process, uh, that, uh, your coordinating RCO has been reviewing this matter, correct?
Is it accurate to state that perhaps several or many of these letters that were referenced were received early on in the process prior to the development team presenting refined proposals that led to the presentation before the zoning board at this current moment?