DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, March 7, 2012 10:00 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN CURTIS JONES, JR., CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN BOBBY HENON COUNCILMAN KENYATTA JOHNSON COUNCILMAN DENNIS O'BRIEN COUNCILMAN MARK SQUILLA COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO RESOLUTION 120072 - Resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings to examine bail practices in gun-possession cases and the correlation to future gun-related crimes. - - - DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com
The Committee on Public Safety will recess until 11:00 a.m. today, March 7th. Thank you. (Recess.)
The Committee on Public Safety will now come to order. Will the Clerk please read the number and title of the resolution.
Resolution 120072, resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Public Safety to hold public hearings to examine bail practices in gun-possession cases and the correlation to future gun-related crimes.
Thank you all. As members of the Committee, I have in Chambers Councilwoman Tasco, Councilman O'Brien, Councilman Johnson, Councilman Henon and Councilman Squilla. Thank you all for attending this hearing. I'd like to start before we hear from the panel and say that I DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 intentionally, I intentionally wore black today. I wore black because this is the suit that I wear at way too many funerals in the 4th Councilmanic District, way too many funerals that I've attended for fallen police officers, way too many funerals that I have had the misfortune of hearing the words, Oh, my God, they've killed my child. There are wonderful parts of my job, but that is not one of them. And each one of the victims that have fallen to gun violence in the City of Philadelphia was someone's child, was someone's son, was someone's daughter, was someone of importance to a family member. Recently, we've had over 60 murders in the new year, which averages about one murder a day. Eighty percent of the murders in the City of Philadelphia are by handguns, and when you peel the layer off the onion a little closer, you find that many of these guns DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 have been used in multiple assaults and/or murders. What we hope to do today is look at this problem, one slice at a time. We do not believe that we will solve all the problems of gun violence in the City of Philadelphia, because they come from many origins and many sources. We will not point fingers today. We won't point towards Harrisburg and bring up 1523, which limits, limits local authorities of the City of Philadelphia to legislate handguns in the City of Philadelphia. We will not point the finger at the NRA that lobbies effectively to stop municipalities like Philadelphia from doing that. We will not point the finger at broken families or broken school systems. What we will do is examine one aspect of the problem today, and this Committee on Public Safety will look at various other aspects in the future. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Today, we will examine the correlation between bail that is set for gun offenders and the correlation to going on to create havoc, literally havoc, in the City of Philadelphia. It was said to me that if someone on Monday tries to convince you with a handgun that they are dangerous and you let them out on Tuesday and then on Thursday they create havoc by creating murder in the City of Philadelphia, you should have believed them the first time. So we're going to take a look at what is going on. We're going to talk about best practices. We're going to talk about things that are beginning to go correctly and the needle pointing in the right direction. But we will not be afraid of looking at this problem and not wishing to Washington, not wishing to Harrisburg, but controlling the space that we live in in the City of Philadelphia. Will the Clerk -- are there any DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 other comments by members of the Public Safety Committee? And they are welcome in my committee. (No response.)
Michael Resnick and Captain Fran Healy, Panel 1. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Good morning, Councilman Jones and members of the Public Safety Committee. My name is Michael Resnick and I am the Director of Public Safety. With me is Captain Fran Healy of the Philadelphia Police Department. Captain Healy is a Special Advisor to Police Commissioner Ramsey. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the Nutter Administration to offer testimony DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 concerning Resolution 120072. The resolution, introduced by Councilmembers Jones, Tasco and Johnson, authorizes this Committee to hold public hearings to examine bail practices in gun-possession cases. As I am sure the members of the Committee are aware, the City of Philadelphia has no involvement in the process of setting bail in gun cases or in any other criminal case. Bail is initially set during an adversarial hearing before a judicial officer, the District Attorney and defense counsel representing the parties. Our District Attorney has recently announced that his office will seek high bail for those offenders charged with gun crimes, and we are seeing judges impose higher bail for violent offenses committed with guns. The Administration supports the efforts of our criminal justice partners who remove dangerous felons from our DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 neighborhoods within the bounds of the law. We appreciate the District Attorney's support and cooperation in our efforts to reduce gun violence. The Administration has taken note of bail practices in other jurisdictions. For example, since May 2011 in St. Louis Missouri, a judge has been setting $30,000 cash-only bail in certain gun cases. This practice assures that many of those charged with certain gun crimes will spend time awaiting trial behind bars rather than on the streets. Since this practice has gone into effect, the City of St. Louis has experienced a percent reduction in the homicide 18 rate. Researchers from the University of 19 Chicago have begun a research study to 20 determine if there is indeed a correlation between this new bail practice and the reduction in the homicide rate. In addition to the District Attorney's new protocol with respect to DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 bail, the City has unveiled a host of new initiatives to combat crime. On January 26, 2012, Mayor Nutter, standing in Strawberry Mansion High School with our local, state and federal partners, announced a series of crime-fighting measures. The Mayor's crime-fighting strategy focuses on reducing gun violence and crime through prevention, intervention and collaboration. Among the initiatives announced are tougher enforcement of Sections 6106 and 6108 of the PA Crimes Code; use of rewards for information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone who commits a homicide or who possesses an illegal gun; development of an automated system that will allow citizens to text tips to the Philadelphia Police Department; increase funding to victim and witness programs; establishing a program that incentivizes property owners and business owners to install video cameras; increasing the numbers of officers in the Philadelphia DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Police Department; relaunching Operation Pressure Point; and implementing a GunStat meeting chaired by the Police Commissioner and our District Attorney. The GunStat meeting serves to coordinate our investigative and prosecution resources on the most violent offenders in areas where gun violence is prevalent. Working collaboratively and cooperatively with our justice partners will allow us to see reductions in the number of gun-related violent crimes. Captain Healy and I would be happy to answer any questions the members of the Committee may have.
State your name for the record. CAPTAIN HEALY: Captain Francis Healy, Philadelphia Police Department.
Proceed with your testimony, please. CAPTAIN HEALY: I'm here for questions.
All right. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 You mentioned in your testimony that recently, I think the word was, that bail has begun to be increased for perpetrators with guns; is that correct?
What do you think prompted the Mayor to cite the low bail previous to this new occurrence?
The question is, you mentioned recently we've begun to move in the right direction.
Which suggests that prior to that, we were not in the right direction. Last year what was the average bail set for gun possession?
I don't have that information here, Councilman. I'm sure I can find it for you and provide it to the Committee. The recent protocol to increase bail in gun cases was something DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 that originated from the District Attorney's Office, and I know Mr. McCann is here and he could probably explain the rationale for that reasoning in his testimony. But when the Administration got together with the District Attorney's Office to discuss some of the Mayor's crime-fighting measures, we were briefed by the District Attorney on what their plans were. Now, that does have an implication, because more people remaining in custody, not getting out on bail increases our census in the prison, increases the prison population. So we have to deal with that on the other end. But we're ensuring that the people who need to stay behind bars are behind bars.
What percentage of homicides in the City of Philadelphia occurred with an offender having a prior gun charge?
That, again, I don't have off the top of my head, but DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 I'm sure we can find that and provide it to the Committee.
Yes, sir, but I didn't realize that those were the nature of the questions you were going to ask me, but they're data that I can find and get for you.
I will remind you the reason we had this resolution passed and this hearing today is that these will be the same questions that are posed to you during budget time.
So you will have enough runway to be able to answer those questions. Of the five officers that were murdered since 2007, how many of those murders were committed by people who had prior gun offenses? These are important questions.
Anecdotally, I DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 believe that in probably most of those cases, but I think all of them were. But, again, we can look into that and provide that to the Committee.
Of the homicides in the City of Philadelphia last year, how many were done by handgun?
I believe the figure is it's upwards of 80 percent; 81, 82 percent.
Stabbings, by 15 hands, blunt-force trauma, things like 16 that. 17
Of that 80 18 percent, how many of those handguns were 19 illegal? 20
Either illegal, illegally possessed, illegally owned by the individual using them. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072
Are there any of the aforementioned definitions, how many of them were -- let's put it this way. Let me rephrase. How many of them were committed by people who had lawful permits to carry a handgun?
I would venture to guess that would be a minority of those cases.
I think it would be an extreme minority and an aberration if it's 1 percent.
So the vast majority of them were committed by illegal handguns on the streets of the City of Philadelphia.
And we do not know how many of those individuals that committed murders had a prior handgun possession --
No. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072
Because all of these are going to be asked again as we try to figure out how to adequately fund public safety.
These are questions that deserve answers so that we can make appropriate adjustments to our budget.
What is the average age of the assailant that commits murder with a handgun?
The numbers that I have seen, Councilman, the figures that I've seen are the 18- to 24-year-old range. It's basically centered in that age group.
And from 23 to 30 -- let me go back. 24 From 18 to 24, if a person is in possession of a handgun -- and I DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 understand there will be testimony that further elaborates what this statistic means, what it truly means to the safety in Philadelphia. But if there is a statistic that says if you're to 7 and you have a gun charge, you are 8 probably to go on to greater crimes and 9 some of those crimes being murder. 10
Yes, sir. It's 11 an indication of a potential to commit 12 future violent crimes. 13
And is it 14 also true that the victims of those 15 crimes happen to also fall in that scary 16 demographic between 18 and 24? 17
And what is 20 the leading cause of death for African 21 American men in the City of Philadelphia? 22 And you can include cancer, you can 23 include auto fatalities, you can include 24 infectious diseases. What is the number one cause of death for African American DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 males in the demographic of to 24? 3
So if we can 14 safely say that from 18 to 24 you're more 15 probable here to, if you have a 16 possession charge, go on to do more 17 crime, and that that same demographic 18 reverses itself on the victims of those crimes 18 to 24, you're likely to be a victim of those illegal guns. This creates a very dangerous nexus in that demographic, correct?
Yes, it does. COUNCIL JONES: All right. I'm going to allow any of my other colleagues DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 to ask questions if you'd like.
Captain Fran Healy, how you doing? How you been? CAPTAIN HEALY: Good, sir.
That's good. I just want, from the Administration's standpoint, to just give us an update on the status of the crime-fighting package that was introduced --
-- on January 26th, specifically the program that deals with surveillance cameras, because that's been asked of me when I go throughout the district. People will say, Well, there's this presentation, this press conference for anti-crime initiatives. Does the City have the surveillance camera programs available DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 for us to implement in our individual neighborhoods? That's one. I am familiar with the GunStat meetings, so I'm glad that that's moving forward. There is also mention of a texting initiative, where people can actually text information in. More importantly, the rewards program, how are we moving forward with providing information to those who may have information regarding gun crimes and homicides? There was a significant amount of money that was mentioned at the press conference dedicated to this initiative. So can you update us, please.
Yes, sir. Any particular order or I'll just go in the order that I have them on my list.
The use of rewards, there was money that was DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 budgeted last year for Fiscal '12. That was, I think, $500,000. And perhaps Captain Healy can talk more about this, but I know the Commissioner has instructed the Homicide Unit and the detectives to know that there's a protocol that if they need reward money to help them in having witnesses come forward to provide valuable information, that there's a process by which they go through to have the Commissioner's Office authorize that. So that's in place. The Mayor has also asked his press folks to advise all members of the press that when they report unfortunately on these incidences when they occur, that automatically they should remind the public that there is this reward out there for information leading to the arrest and conviction of individuals who are committing these crimes. So that's for the reward portion of it. The texted tip, the Police Department's website currently will DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 accept e-mail tips, and people can do that currently. You just log on to the PPD online website and there's a space that you can e-mail a tip. And what we're working on now, the same providers, the same developers who developed that website are going to roll out a system, and I believe it's coming out later this month, for us to allow folks to text us anonymously. Obviously when you do it with an e-mail, we have your e-mail address, but if you do it through a text tip, we won't know who sent the tip in. So those will remain anonymous, and I believe that's going to be rolled out later on this month. The priority or the incentivization for property owners and business owners to install cameras, we have a program out of the Commerce Department currently that provides funding for businesses in certain commercial corridors to install roll-down security gates and security windows, and DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 we're going to use the bones basically of that program to help us establish this program. Now, the Police Department has a set of cameras that we monitor throughout the City. We have some issues with those cameras, but we're working on those. And those cameras are monitored at the Police Administration Building. We're trying to formulate a specification that we can tell people that, Look, your camera has to be digital, it has to have whatever the technological requirements are for us to monitor it. We don't want people to go out and buy inferior products or products that we won't be able to see. So this helps us in two ways. It acts as a deterrent. People see more cameras around, hopefully that will act as a deterrent. And also it's an investigative tool that the detectives and the DA can use with the evidence that's gathered from those cameras. So we will develop the DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 specification that needs to be purchased by the business owners or the property owners so that we can monitor it, and then the Commerce Department is going to model this program off of the program that they have with the roll-down security gates. And that is being worked on in Commerce. They're using that model from the roll-down security gates as something to build this program on, and I know that's currently being worked on. GunStat, the DA and the Commissioner have chaired their second meeting, I believe it was, not this past Monday, Monday a week ago, but we continue to meet weekly to work on those meetings and to develop the coordination between enforcement and prosecution and develop the lists of individuals and identify the locations. So those --
Excuse me. Point of information. Can you describe GunStat a little more for --
Certainly. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 GunStat, I'm sure you're all familiar with the CompStat process, computerized statistical analysis. GunStat is a CompStat meeting focusing only on gun-related crime, and we've identified -- and I don't want to publicly give too much information about the workings of it, but essentially what it is, is we've identified certain individuals in certain places, and we come together monthly with the commanders of those districts, the district attorneys who are assigned to those areas. The DA and the Police Commissioner chair those meetings, and we focus on those individuals and those locations and the crimes and make sure that we are all on the same page together coordinating our enforcement efforts with their prosecution efforts. We include state probation/parole, local probation/parole, the jail system. All the criminal justice stakeholders who may touch these individuals or these places DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 come together so that we're sure that we're coordinating our resources.
And if I may, Councilman, without giving up too much of the story and inside movements of GunStat, is it true that certain gangs -- and it's important for us to dispel myth from reality. If you listen to a lot of people in the barber shop, the belief is that there's a truck that pulls up in the Home Depot lot with a whole lot of guns in the back of it and that's how illegal guns are finding their way to the streets of Philadelphia, but I've been talking to individuals that tell me that it's slightly different with the straw purchases, one's or two's, I think they called it, and that gangs tend to almost in a rent-a-center fashion pass guns around to different members of the gang. So an illegal handgun may be a part of more than one instance of crime. Is that true?
Correct, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Councilman. There are places where illegal guns are stashed, and individuals have access to those guns. It's not one person committing crimes with his gun. Guns can be lent, rented out. So they're the problems that we're dealing with.
Also, it's come to my attention through this process -- and I warned my Serious Freshmen here, and I've given them that name, that some of the things that you learn in this process you wish you never knew. And I'm sure you share that sentiment in your responsibility.
Is it also true that some of the taverns and bars have a role to play within this? And if there's a troubled bar, then if you peel the layers of the onion off, you might find that in some cases that's where some of these illegal weapons are found as well.
Correct, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Councilman. I believe that's one of the reasons -- part of the reason why we're going to relaunch Operation Pressure Point, because when we did that some summers ago, there were particular locations, bars and taverns, that we would hit and we would find drugs, guns. They're readily accessible to the individuals there.
And, Councilmembers, one of the more disturbing things that you hear is that in some of those cases, the bar is where you come to rent the gun; is that correct?
That is truly, truly disturbing. I want to recognize Councilwoman Blackwell who has joined us. Would you like to participate?
I have a DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 question.
Mr. Resnick, you had said that the texted tip by the end of the month. Is that something that is a definite that that will be available?
That's a definite, Councilman. I think the City has already procured what's called a vanity number. I forget if it's like text PPD or PPD-911, something like that, that will be publicized, and it's ours. We own it. We own that name. So people, all they have to do -- you can program it into your phone. If you see something, you can take a picture, you text it to that number and that will be received by the Police Department. It's not a substitute for 9-1-1. I want to make that clear.
Does that go to a specific part of the Police DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Department, a portion that just reviews that information and then goes directly to --
It goes to a centralized area, and those tips are reviewed and then they will be sent out to the detective divisions according to where the tip -- what the tip is about. Obviously if it's about a homicide, it will go to the Homicide Division. If it's in a certain particular geographic area, it will go to East Detectives, Southwest Detectives. It will be sent to where it's relevant.
And then you mentioned about the cameras, the specifications that you want for cameras. I know I've recently been meeting with developers and people who do some zoning changes or building houses, and we're asking them to actually install cameras on everything that goes through our office. When is the timeline where you DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 feel that you would have specifications that we can use as Council when we ask people to add these cameras to their properties that we would give them the right information?
The specifications, Councilman, I believe are coming very, very soon. It's taken us a little while longer to work out the logistics of the program by which people would apply for subsidies for those cameras. But because we have cameras ourselves, the City owns cameras, and we do monitor them currently out of the PAB, we want to just make sure that with the state of technology and the way things develop, we want to make sure there are minimum standards by which people will purchase something that will be of benefit and use to us. So that will be coming very, very soon.
I would imagine, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 yes.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Henon and then Councilman Johnson.
First, thank you for coming and testifying today in front of the Committee. I want to echo what a few of the colleagues had talked about, and am eager and anxiously awaiting the specifications of the cameras. I just want to note that I'm concerned that -- I just want to make sure that the watchful eyes of these cameras are trained police officers who know how to deploy the proper resources in a swift and effective fashion. So I think -- I'm sure it's a concern for the citizens of Philadelphia. It's certainly a concern of mine that we have -- when this program and the specifics of it is released, that on the other end we have trained and watchful DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 eyes ready to deploy our officers in a quick and safe manner.
Officers are currently watching them. And if you'd like, Captain Healy can give you a little more in-depth about how the program works and where the officers actually are. CAPTAIN HEALY: Correct. The officers are assigned in the Realtime Crime Center, which is up and running full time, 24/7. It's manned by a captain, along with a staff of personnel that oversee all the City-sponsored cameras as they are now. So that's part of the Philadelphia Critical Infrastructure Program, where all the critical infrastructures are now monitored by the police. And they're tied in with Police Radio. So they're tied also in with the automatic tag readers that are on the police officers' cars going through the City. That's the conduit for information, the Realtime Crime Center, and it can facilitate to DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Police Radio for the immediate dispatch of police officers or backup for investigative purposes, whatever they need, documenting crimes or incidents that have occurred. So that's the central repository for that information right now, and it's manned by police officers.
How many cameras are in operation at this point? How many cameras do we have placed through the City and are they in operation? CAPTAIN HEALY: I can give you preliminary numbers. A couple hundred, but sometimes they go offline, they have to be fixed. So the number is never static. I can get you a better number, a ball park number, from our Deputy Commissioner Gaittens.
We have approximately 400, Councilman, and as the Captain stated, there are at times problems with certain cameras that the DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 panning mechanism won't work, so it's fixed in one location. The zoom in and out maybe doesn't -- the cameras are working, they're operational, they're gathering information, they're taking pictures, but unfortunately maybe they won't be able to be moved. And actually unless somebody is actively watching the camera and monitoring that camera, they can operate it and move it and zoom in and zoom out. If they're not actually actively monitoring that camera, that camera just has a field of view. If a crime occurs within that field of view, we capture that and we can have that evidence. If a crime occurs just outside that field of view, we won't capture that.
Then I think you touched on the time reaction. I'm going to have the same question with the text hotline or tip program, the reaction time and response time for deployment.
Right. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072
It's certainly going to be an issue as far as safety and effectiveness.
The texted tip -- and we're going to stress this -- it does not supplant 9-1-1. If there's a need for an emergency and there's a need for emergency responders immediately, call 9-1-1, but if you happen to see something, you happen to have evidence, you have a camera that you were able to take a picture of, you can text that to us, and we will use that in the investigative process. But by no means do you text that number when you are in need of emergent help at that moment.
I'm just trying to see the texted tip, the hotline. For somebody who is reporting illegal activity, would they otherwise call 3-1-1, or what is the difference in DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 the response or the allocation, figuring out where that complaint goes? CAPTAIN HEALY: See, the important thing is, we're trying to give the public as many options to give information to us, but we do have to vet that out. Emergency calls for service go to 9-1-1, whether they're received by our tip line or they're received by texting. So somebody needs to analyze, make sure this is a crime in progress, and it gets reallocated or rededicated to 9-1-1 so officers can be dispatched immediately. The good thing about the Realtime Crime Center, in combination with this, is Realtime Crime Center is monitoring the Police Radio at the same time. So it's like a cumulative effect where the officers are responding, but any and all cameras in that area are now being monitored to pick up any and all information. A lot of times what you'll see is just a person running through the scene, but that's sometimes enough to get DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 a description that we need. And an important thing to also add into this is Public Affairs. Our Public Affairs Unit is in collaboration with the FBI on a video enhancement program. What they do is, a lot of these videos that we get, even if they're not the best quality, we are -- there is an FBI program that the Police Department is partnered with to actually enhance these pictures to like an incredible degree where you can actually see facial recognition stuff in them. So there's a lot going on with the video in this department, and a lot is going to be going on. But the texting in and of itself, it's not like you're going to be texting 9-1-1. Somebody will have to analyze that text, see what it is and then kind of re-dispatch it to 9-1-1. So, I mean, I would encourage anybody with realtime information, like a crime in progress, always call 9-1-1.
And I DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 certainly believe in asking the citizens of Philadelphia be partners and help assist our officers for the sake of public safety for everybody and the department to effectively do their job. I just look forward to hearing the details on some of the questions when you release the -- CAPTAIN HEALY: We've had some great successes with the videos in the past, and the people that we've encountered. The business owners that we've dealt with, like if a crime occurred in front of their store, have been more than receptive more than not to work with the police. So there is a true partnership with the community, business community, on working, because sometimes they have to shut down their whole computer system so we can take what we need. And we do appreciate that. I know it's an inconvenience, but it's an absolute necessity, and we try to be as -- make the inconvenience the least as DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 possible. But they are very, very much a partner in our solving a lot of these crimes.
Well, while I have you, not to ramble on, Mr. Chairman, a couple other quick questions I have is, there a -- back on bail. Is there a set dollar amount or bail amount to an offense with a crime -- CAPTAIN HEALY: Not to my knowledge.
There are bail guidelines, Councilman. So there are certain criteria that are taken into effect to determine where you stand on the grid, and basically what score you get is -- and I'm sure Doctor or Mr. McCann can explain that more to you in-depth, but there are guidelines that are followed and there are a whole host of factors that go into determining the amount. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072
Well, in addition to while you're gathering statistics in advance to the budget hearings and some other questions that Councilmembers have, do you have the statistics on people who have been charged with a handgun or a gun crime and skipped bail and, in addition, stop their probation, just skipped it completely, stopped coming around, so they're basically on the ^lamb, so to speak?
It sounds like that would be a high percentage as well.
There are approximately close to 40,000 bench warrants that exist in the City of Philadelphia for people who are wanted for failing to appear. Some of those are for not fulfilling the obligations of their probation and they're put on one car for probation officers. What DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 percentage of that has to deal directly with handguns, I can't say, and I think it would be hard to say, because lots of people are arrested for multiple charges.
Where a handgun is involved or a firearm. Whether it's chosen to be part of the statistic or not I think is up to the Administration. Thank you. I have no further questions.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Johnson.
Mike, I just want to wrap up on this last component, going back to the actual initiative that was presented by the Administration. I know Commissioner DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Kelly in New York, he used a multi-pronged approach to reducing crime in the City of New York, and I know one of the things that they utilized -- and I talked to the Mayor about this -- is when they implemented the rewards program and the tip program, they kind of got everybody involved in that process. So when the community relation officer does come out in the community events, they're always putting the information about the rewards program inside the community folks' hands while they're out and about so there can be that partnership. Because the cops can't do it all, to be quite frank with you, and I never approach crime prevention or law enforcement or public safety in general as one person's lane. I think it's a situation that impacts all of us as a whole. But I know on the community side, one of the toughest things I've dealt with, at least in my 20 years of organizing around public safety issues, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 is that officers can better do their job with information. And so, again, I know we rolled out the initiative on the 26th. Just moving forward, as y'all start rolling it out, find a way to integrate it into the actual community so people can know. I know the press, but the press isn't going to -- when an incident happens, they're not going to always say, Oh, yeah, there's a reward program that you can utilize to help solve this murder. So it's incumbent upon us as public servants also to step to the plate and do our part to get the information out there.
In addition to that, Councilman, I think one of the things we're also doing is running these on Channel 64, the City's cable access. So that information will be put out publicly as well. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072
Are there any further questions for this panel? (No response.)
Hearing none, thank you again. Listen, we understand this is a tough job. This is the tough aspect of our respective job. I have one other question, and I heard this and let you put on the record. If you had to pick three police districts where gun violence is at its height, which ones off the top of your head would you cite?
That's interesting. I heard one other different one from another comment, but that's not one of those distinctions you want to DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 add. I had no idea you and Maria's area was as problematic. You mentioned it to me, but there was a statistic verification the other day that says that that is true. I already knew, Councilman Johnson, that you had a great deal of those kinds of problems. We are going to pay laser-beam attention, this Committee, to the evolution of developing solutions. We have another freshman on here that knows a thing or two about crime and violence and has produced a book at the state level, a "how to" book, which we're going to take close examination of and inclusion of and a little license, if we would. If someone has already developed some proven solutions, we're not going to reinvent the wheel. Those cameras you talked about, Councilman Henon, have a three-year life DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 cycle. So we have to evolve as a municipality and utilize the partnership with the business community to install cameras on private property that we can utilize in crime fighting. So we're going to look at things that work well, things that need to work better and things that we can do differently to combat this problem. So thank you very much for your testimony.
First Assistant District Attorney Ed McCann and Dr. John Goldkamp. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you very much. Would you state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony. MR. McCANN: Thank you, Councilman. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 District Attorney in the Philadelphia DA's Office. Good morning, Councilman Jones, other members of the Committee. I thank you very much for inviting me to this hearing. I appreciate the opportunity to testify. I'm not going to read all my testimony. I'm going to summarize it, because I want to get to the points that you, I think, are most interested in. As Mr. Resnick said, he talked about the St. Louis project, for lack of a better word, that started last year in St. Louis, Missouri, and I just want to shed a little bit more light on that and the reasoning behind the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office idea to perhaps pursue this in the City of Philadelphia. Basically what happened, Councilman, is that in St. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 found that their homicide rate dropped percent in a very short period of time. It wasn't even an entire year. Basically what was going on in 2011 in St. Louis is they were on pace to finish at the same rate that they had in 2010, which was 144 homicides. They ended up at 114 after doing this. So they dropped -- 30 people from the year before were not killed in 2011. It's being studied. As Mr. Resnick said, the University of Chicago is studying this, but some key facts, I think, that we need to understand from this. One is that the homicide numbers dropped dramatically basically at the time where typically you see homicide rates rise, and that would be during warmer weather, in latter part of June, July, August, where you really have a lot of homicides, as you all know in Philadelphia, at those periods of time, and I think that's true throughout the country. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 the program and that's when the homicide rate started to drop in St. Louis. As I said, it's being studied by University of Chicago criminologists. And I think -- I just want to share what the preliminary data is, because I think it's important for you to understand this, and, that is, that as the researcher stated in the St. Louis post dispatch article, said that when you get into the details -- speaking about shootings and homicides -- these are impulsive decisions, and when you've got people walking around with short fuses and they've got a gun in their waistband, a gun makes a bad impulse socially harmful. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 effective. Although, as I said, it's not final yet. And, again, let me just share one other thing that the researchers have stated. And he said that gun charges typically carry low bail amounts that offenders post and usually result in probation that doesn't start for months, even years. Younger defendants disproportionately involved in gun crimes tend to focus on short-term consequences. For people who are very present oriented, they will think if the cops catch me, I'm not sleeping on my bed tonight, I'm spending the next however many days, weeks, months behind bars immediately. That's a fundamentally different thing from worrying about what's going to happen a year from now. So that was the genesis of this, Councilman, why we feel like this may be effective. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 swift and certain consequences, it doesn't have to be draconian, a lot of these cases will be guilty pleas at the first available court listing for a guilty plea, which may be as early as three months or earlier than that into the process. However, it would change the dynamic in Philadelphia in terms of swift and certain punishment for gun crimes, because typically these crimes have, particularly with those that don't have a significant prior record or a very small prior record, many of these cases are probation cases, because they fit the state sentencing guidelines for probation. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES.
120072 dispute, but you have a gun instead of having your fist and you use the gun. So that's the hope. And just to talk a little bit about some other issues in the bail system before I finish my testimony, and, that is, as Mr. Resnick said, he's correct, there's over 30,000 bench warrants in the court system and about 9,000 probation warrants in the system. And, Councilman, I started in the DA's Office in 1989 and I remember being an intern in 1988, right at the beginning of the prison cap litigation when mass releases were taking place in the Philadelphia Prison System, where the federal court placed a cap on admissions and only if you committed a very violent crime could you be admitted to the prison, and thousands of defendants were released and thousands of defendants never had any consequence for failing to appear in court, and that is where we are left with now 23 years later. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 same thing. We have 30,000 bench warrants in the inventory in terms of the trial inventory, the trial and preliminary hearing inventory. And while that number has decreased somewhat in the last two years, it's still a huge, staggering number, which makes us the second city in America in terms of failures to appear in court, that bench warrant.
Can you repeat that again. MR. McCANN: Yes, sir. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the articles that were written, as you all know, about the court system at the end of 2009, we are second only to Essex County, New York, which is -- New Jersey, excuse me, Essex County, New Jersey, which constitutes Newark and other cities, for the percentage of failures to appear in court. And this is really a cultural issue as well that needs a lot of change and funding, frankly. I mean, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 that's really -- Pretrial Services is dramatically underfunded. The FJD's Warrant Unit that goes after bench warrants has a lot of really good people working there, but they are drastically understaffed, drastically underfunded. Probation and Parole is drastically understaffed and drastically underfunded. So you have a culture that exists in the bail system on to the probation system where essentially the defendants are left unmonitored, and that fact is what leads to the lack of respect for the court subpoena and the court order. And there's a lot of things that can be done to change that, but most of what can be done is going to involve funding, because alternatives to cash bail would be something that the District Attorney's Office would certainly support in certain circumstances. However, there are no meaningful monitoring or consequences or sanctions in place at this point because of a lack of DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 resources. Pretrial Services is really, really hurting in terms of their ability to accomplish that. So I thank you again very much for the opportunity to testify, and I'll be happy to answer any questions at the appropriate time.
We will do questions after our second panelist testifies for members of the Committee. Would you state your name for the record, bring the mike to you, and proceed with your testimony.
How about that? Is that better? I'm John Goldkamp, Professor at Temple University, North Philadelphia. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 some of the miseries of the bail system, I was here in 1976 looking at Philadelphia's bail system. Through careful experimentation and empirical data collection and analysis, we developed for the first time in the United States bail or pretrial release guidelines. So we have -- we confess, we're the developers of the guidelines, the bail guidelines now. We then tried, last time I think was about years ago, to get them 14 to come together again -- this was after 15 and during the building of the Criminal Justice Center -- to say these things were never meant to be standing still. They're supposed to adjust with changing circumstances. We have crimes now that we never even heard of or imagined then. So they weren't supposed to be stationary, the bail guidelines. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 that successful. People may have tried that since we've been doing things for the City, but there are important ways, several important ways, to get at that. The bail guidelines are not supposed to be all empirical, just like they're not supposed to be all imaginary. We go through this with discussions with our friends, the commercial bondsmen. What we need is an empirical background where we predict the best we can the violent and the gun-related charges, and then we say this is such a problem and they'll be some others that we -- after we set them up empirically, what kind of risk they pose to the community will have a special box or something that we check off that says, But this is a gun crime, and you can further divide that any way you like. And so it doesn't matter what your risk is. That's a different consideration. It matters now what the alleged crime is. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 an empirical thought. That's a policy thought. That's where you decide that I always want to have those pointed out to me, and we'll see what's called for there. You talked about the state-of-the-art in bail, and you guys like to hold up St. Louis you said, and actually there's no pretrial services -- first of all, I want to say I agree with all your comments about Pretrial Services in Philadelphia. It was at one time the leading program in the country, but what we're missing now, most pretrial programs or approaches in the country are missing; that is, an ability to directly act on defendants and have special things that we do, call it supervision, call it monitoring, call it matching the problem with the solution. If it's not supervision, there's the federal model, there's the DC model and there's the AVA recommendations. They call for immediate and direct attention. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 not detaining people because of whether they can afford release or not. And other studies have shown that moving dollar amounts around doesn't move around the risk of danger. That has to be taken care of more directly. I would say with this kind of crime, that we're going through those steps, but we're looking at whether this is something posing a danger to the community or it's something much more minor that can be explained using a different explanation that's less threatening. And so we would like to perhaps sort the threats that we see to the community. Then a direct decision could be made. We can say, Well, you're going home. The question is how? You're not going home. The question is can we keep our case on pace and have a way of checking that this is happening? We're not just accumulating cases in the jail. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 being released directly and they're not using the myth that dollars is going to do something about danger. Dollars just makes people feel good, raising it and lowering it. Oh, there's one that really should be high bail. There's one that really should be low bail. Are bail conditions too low?
That, I suppose, means dollar-wise, although I like the language. It's not bail conditions that are too low. It's what we do with the defendants who are alleged to have committed gun-related crimes and other serious crimes that you might add to your list. Nor will -- studies have shown this, too. Nor will moving dollars around to prevent failure to appear in court. Other things will. Again, other things relating to supervision, drug courts, out programs that allow you to be engaged and your activities restricted and monitored, but not necessarily dollared into detention. That sometimes is appropriate. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 So there are a number of things that we can do then that involve developing these options. Now, that's what did when we developed the drug court. We pulled out the drug-related defendants who seemed to repeat because of their drug problems and we built the court around it and certain categories of defendants, according to the Philadelphia guidelines, would go off in that direction under supervision, reporting to the judge frequently. So, again, an example of how you need to develop supervision and monitoring. So these days with the murder rate and the gun rates, the two most concerning, I wouldn't think of passing a law that said we get to hold gun possessors without bail, like we do homicide, for the first few days. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 that we've experimented with empirically. So that's blah, blah, blah. Do you have some questions where you'd like to go?
Yeah. Thank you for your testimony. Two things. DA McCann, can you describe for us and those who are listening the process by which an assailant gets arrested and then bail or the risk assessment is applied? We have a chart there. Could you describe that chart? And then we'll get to you. MR. McCANN: Sure. Councilman, someone arrested for a felony, say a felony gun-possession case in the City of Philadelphia, the preliminary arraignments usually take place somewhere between 18 and hours from the time of 22 arrest, usually no more than hours 23 from the time of arrest, and they're done 24 by closed circuit TV. The arraignment court is in the basement at the Criminal DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Justice Center. So the defendants will be taken to various police districts through the City, and then the closed circuit arraignment will allow the defendant to have his bail hearing in the basement of the Criminal Justice Center. And at that time, the Bail Commissioner, Bail Magistrate, will hear about the charge, the defendant's prior record and the defendant's history of appearing for court, and set a bail amount at that time.
So all of those are taken into what would, for simple definition, a risk assessment of the individual? MR. McCANN: Right. I mean, there's not -- I mean, some would say that we need a better or more formal risk assessment, but those pieces of the case that I just stated will be considered by the Bail Magistrate.
And those DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 guidelines were established by you in what year?
The first version was 1978. The Municipal Court voted them and the First Judicial District in 1981 or 3 for the new Criminal Justice Center. We had a chance to rip them apart again somewhere in 1995, and since 1995 no adjustments. And you can watch the judges' use of them. Every time they got fixed, they used them very well, and then when they started being ignored, they would plummet to the low levels.
All right. So then -- MR. McCANN: So, again, I mean, the Bail Magistrate's word on bail is not necessarily the final word. If either side thinks the bail is either too high or too low --
So the state or the defense can appeal this? MR. McCANN: Correct. And, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Councilman, before their first appearance in court on a felony charge, that's within to days. So before the 5 first appearance in court -- say for the 6 sake of argument that the Commonwealth 7 wants to appeal the bail amount right 8 there in the arraignment court, that they 9 think it's too low, can call the 10 emergency municipal court judge. That 11 judge will get on the phone and hear both 12 sides. 13
So the 14 magistrates get their first bite at the 15 apple? 16 MR. McCANN: Correct. 17
Right. So then they go to the judge? MR. McCANN: Municipal court judge, correct.
They are on DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 a rotating basis? MR. McCANN: Yes, Councilman.
Okay. Go ahead, proceed. MR. McCANN: So then, generally speaking, nothing really usually happens on bail before the case comes to court for the first listing, but parties can ask for bail decreases or increases at any time after that. They usually have to cite some change in circumstance to get the bail to be changed, though.
And what typically would be those circumstances? MR. McCANN: Well, it could be that we could argue, the Commonwealth can argue, that after the case is held for trial, we've demonstrated there's sufficient evidence to go to Common Pleas Court, that that may be a change in circumstance, or there may be information about the defendant's background that we did not know at the time of the arraignment that comes into our knowledge DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 before the case gets to court. The defense attorney may say he has ties to the community that the Bail Magistrate wasn't aware of, that his mom is willing to put up her house, things of that nature. I mean, there's a lot of different things that can be cited in terms of a bail reduction or a bail increase.
So then the judge's discretion is used based on whatever that new information is? MR. McCANN: That's correct.
Which may be on one side or the other of the guidelines set by the Magistrate? MR. McCANN: Right. But, again, if you look at these guidelines, they're completely out of date. They haven't been updated since 1995. One of the things that the guidelines takes into consideration is whether the defendant has a land line, and this is, you know, 2012. We understand that that really DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 doesn't have anything to do with whether a defendant is a good bail risk or not. So the guidelines are woefully out of date. And, frankly, would I love to see a system where we did have meaningful non-incarceration alternatives to cash bail? Absolutely. But, Councilman, you're talking about funding something that will cost the City tens of millions of dollars that -- I don't see tens of millions of dollars sitting around unused in the budget times that we've all had to deal with the last four or five years. I mean, Pretrial Services -- I'm not casting aspersions on their employees at all. They're woefully underfunded. They're not capable of monitoring defendants the way they need to be monitored to change the culture of the lack of respect for the court subpoena. It's not possible with the funding that's currently in existence.
I agree with a lot of what you said. I'd like to add a DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 couple of points. First, we're a university, so we're used to doing research, that at a tenth of what you're talking about, you can look over our way. A couple of other things important to keep in mind. Bail is "like" but it is not probation and it is not parole. Interestingly, when we did a study of the jail in 2005 or something like that, we found that the highest rate of dismissal was among gun-possession charges, and the District Attorney's Office was so disbelieving of that that we did it over again, and it came out that our work had been good and that was the answer. For some reason, that -- and then people started suggesting lots of reasons, some of them having to do with information systems and so forth.
Can you elaborate? I'm not understanding why that would be.
No, I can't DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 elaborate on what it might have been, except we looked up the cases with Sara. We just pulled cases out, and they seemed to match, but something was wrong, and it could be new employees, lack of training and other things. So they're only a small number in the jail, so it may have been something that didn't occur very frequently, but rate-wise, percentage-wise, they had the highest rate of dismissal. This was not recently. This was before the last two years.
May I ask a question, and I'll allow my other colleague to speak on this. Last year what was the average bail for a gun-possession case?
Go ahead, if you've got it memorized. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 MR. McCANN: I can get you the exact figure, Councilman, but it was probably around $11,000. That's about the average.
And the needle moving post January, what is the average bail for a gun-possession case? MR. McCANN: It would be in excess of $25,000 since January 26th.
Tell us how. MR. McCANN: There's about -- I think the latest number since January 26th -- I looked at the data last night -- there's been 118 gun-possession arrests in the City of Philadelphia since January 26th, and about 66 percent of those defendants are currently in custody. And I think that the numbers of defendants that -- if you took the numbers -- and we haven't done this yet, because the data is new, and one of the DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 issues we have is with some antiquated computer systems. It's hard to get some of the data. But I think if you compared that to last year, it would be a very significant jump in the numbers of defendants held in custody.
You used the term called "swift and certain consequences" -- MR. McCANN: Correct.
-- as a part of this, and what I took from it was a lack of respect for showing up to court means a lack of respect for the consequences of possession of a gun, which means lack of respect for human life.
And it boils down to just that. If I don't care about a subpoena that says I should appear in court, I probably won't care whether this handgun is registered, and if I'm going to get let out on a low bail, then DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 obviously we as a society don't care either. And I think -- I'm not supposing what hundreds of these young people are thinking, but I can certainly know that they are not thinking about the consequences of the certainty of their actions, and we need to take a hard look at that. I'm hearing you about the money issue. We will not abdicate our responsibility to adequately fund. We will not ask for crops without rain. We will not say go do your job, but we won't give you the equipment and the resources to do it. It just -- it does not make sense. But as we start to contemplate where the few resources we do have go, public safety for us and this Chamber has got to be job number one, because none of the other things will happen. The gentleman that was going to his job, he owned a business at 26th, I believe, and Allegheny was shot to death by DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 individuals who did not care about any of the certain and swift consequences obviously. So we're going to take a hard look at this and look at the bail guidelines and insist that the court take a fresh look with fresh eyes, understanding that eight-track tape players no longer exist and that cell phones are a part of our day-to-day society and the risk factors -- again, we can study it until analysis paralysis sets in, but the reality is for the victims of these crimes, that there is a clear and present danger on the streets of Philadelphia that we have to address. Any other questions for the panelists? Thank you for your --
I'm just afraid if I start, I won't be able to stop. There's just a couple issues, Mr. District Attorney, that I would like DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 to ask if you can comment on or if we should have perhaps a follow-up hearing. There's a euphemism that we like to use, fix crea (ph), and I know the informational sharing systems are broken in Pennsylvania. But could you possibly comment -- I know this is a challenge and I know it's an open-ended question. Some of the practices in our judicial system I think could be better tailored to a response in this conversation. I know Mr. Goldkamp uses terms like "special condition," and I believe, Mr. Goldkamp, you're opposed to monetary standards, we either hold them or we let them go, but in my view, you have judges -- and I'll just give you an example. Maybe you can comment on this scenario. Let's say a judge sentenced somebody to seven years. If they get a 25-year probationary tail and then that judge were to be able to bring that individual back on a violation of parole and max that individual out on the first DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 sentence, try them on the next sentence, and then sentence them to the max on that sentence, to me, that's when you really get to the appropriate level of discussion here, the gun violence issues. The realtime policing is a wonderful solution. I just believe that we have to start packing the courtrooms and just watching the way the judges beat out the sentence. I just submit psychologically that if I were sentenced to seven years, I wouldn't be as afraid of that seven-year sentence as I would about the 25-year probationary tail, because I know I'm going to screw up, and I know if I screw up, I'm going to go back and I'm going to go back for the rest of my life. I believe these are the kind of strategies that we have to have. And I don't know if you want to talk about some of the challenges you have in the criminal justice system, but... MR. McCANN: Thank you for your question. Let me say this: When DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 District Attorney Williams came into office in 2010, in the wake of that Inquirer series, which devastatingly and accurately took the criminal justice system apart, his goals and aspirations were to improve what we can control. And trust me, Councilman O'Brien, having been a part of this Administration for the last two years, there was a lot of things that we could improve in-house in terms of the way we handle certain things, and I think that's really where our focus has been. However, your point is well taken in that everybody that is in the criminal justice system needs to be accountable for their role in it. Some people refer to it as a three-legged stool. I think that's a really good analogy. So every leg of the stool needs to be held accountable. And to the extent that citizens of the City are involved in the system and come to court to see what happens, I think that's an DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 excellent thing, I think it's a positive thing, and I think that it helps the system, because it makes everybody accountable when the public is looking. And that means not just at the courts, but at us, at the police. I mean, everybody needs to be accountable for the money that you appropriate to us, and we need to be accountable for the jobs we do. And I say that as the First Assistant District Attorney, and I'm sure that that goes for the Police Commissioner and for the courts as well.
Councilman, can I get back to one of your last questions before you close up? And it has to do with consequences, and it's where he was ending up, I think, as well. We did an experiment to try to divide people into two groups to find out whether they're lost in the system, they went to the wrong room, they're afraid to come back, they just missed it and blew it, but there is no ill will. And we DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 compared them with those who seemed to get lost on purpose and it was not inadvertent, and then we followed them up for a number of months, and what we found was, it's more correct to interpret the defendants that produce warrants as advertent than it was to consider them inadvertent. So it is by now, with the training that they've had during a decade ago when the crowding business was going on, they have developed bad attitudes, a disrespect for authority and for community. And I think those different parts that make that up need to be addressed side by side.
We started out by saying that this is a holistic problem that will take a holistic solution, but we have to start somewhere. We have to dig our heels in, draw a line and say this is enough. The Mayor did it at the beginning of the year, and we applaud him and the Administration and DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 the courts for taking it seriously. Council will do its part. I will not go to another funeral where I can't look a mother in the eye. I will not go to another funeral where I don't look a widow of a fallen police officer in the eye and say that this institution didn't do everything it could to keep both entities safe. And if bail is the issue, we will evaluate it, we will draw light on it until we get it right. So thank you for your testimony. MR. McCANN: Thank you.
John McNesby and Julie Rausch. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Thank you for coming in and thank you for your patience. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 name for the record and proceed with your testimony. MR. McNESBY: John McNesby, President, Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge No. 5. Good morning, Councilman Jones and members of the Committee on Public Safety and staff. I will be presenting testimony this morning on behalf of the Fraternal Order of Police, Lodge No. 5 and our membership of 14,500 officers, approximately 6,300 which are actively serving as Philadelphia police officers. And I would note that 6,300 is about 400 less than we should be to accurately staff and accurately protect the citizens of Philadelphia. The men and women we represent are very unique in the criminal justice system. We see the operations and workings of Philadelphia's court system from the moment a crime occurs right up until the final disposition in court. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 system. Although the system has prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges and court staff, the public thinks of the police as the face of the Philadelphia justice system. We are the ones who first come into contact with victims and witnesses in the very communities where these crimes occur. Most members of the public have never seen a judge or a prosecutor in person. However, they do know the men and women of the Philadelphia Police Department with whom they interact on a daily basis while we patrol their neighborhoods. A successful police public safety program requires this familiarity and closeness with the community. However, when the system fails, the police often get the blame. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 guys walk. Since the public has the tendency to hold the police accountable for the entire workings of the criminal justice system, we have repeatedly expressed our concerns regarding the operations of the entire judicial system. Since we are the thin line between the citizens in society and those who prey upon them, we take it very seriously and will participate in any endeavor or effort to improve the system. For some reason, there seems to exist a belief that it is okay to carry an illegal gun on the streets of the City of Philadelphia. This perception -- and this is the reality -- and it must stop. On a very personal level, seven Philadelphia police officers have been murdered in the line of duty since 2006. Six of those police officers were killed in a single 18-month period. Of these seven fine officers, five were killed with guns by armed and dangerous felons. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Numerous other officers were also shot during this period, and I am thankful that they survived their encounters. The offenders who caused these police officers' deaths and injuries were not strangers at all to the justice system. If the justice system worked, most of these officers would be with their families today. I also bear in mind that police officer shootings are not the only victims of gun violence in Philadelphia and that many citizens have also been subjected to the scourge of gun violence in all neighborhoods in our city. The fact is many of these criminals carrying guns on our street do so knowingly, and the criminal justice system in the City will do little more than give them a slap on the wrist. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 wanted on bench warrants or simply do not appear in court. Other than police, the first encounter a criminal will have with the criminal justice system is by seeing a judge or a Bail Commissioner at a bail hearing. When a criminal has been arrested with a gun and then is granted bail to return to the streets, it must leave quite an impression with the criminal about how serious Philadelphia is about combatting crime and gun violence. I'm quite sure that a criminal with a gun would not be granted bail in any of the five counties that border Philadelphia.
While preparing for this hearing, I was asked what is the appropriate amount of bail for a gun crime. How about no bail. I've been at numerous press conferences where our law enforcement leaders and District Attorney have declared a war on guns. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 contributed resources to fund and combat gun crimes and gun violence. I know that we have a prisoner overcrowding problem. I know that those appearing for bail are not convicted, but they are only accused. I also know that we cannot practically put everyone in jail. With the epidemic of gun violence in our city, why can't we just decree that if you are found guilty or you are found to be carrying a gun or commit a crime with a gun, you go directly to jail before trial and stay there. Thank you.
Julie Rausch, Executive Director of the Anti-Violence Partnership of Philadelphia. Good afternoon now, Councilman Jones and other members of the Public Safety Committee. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 discussion. We've heard -- I've learned a lot today and have heard some very interesting information from the people before me, but perhaps what I can offer is a little more personal information and the perspective of some of the victims that are involved in this. The Anti-Violence Partnership of Philadelphia is the only organization in Philadelphia whose mission is to reduce the cycle of violence by providing intervention, prevention and support programs. Last year our committed staff assisted over 6,000 family members of homicide victims and victims of other violent crime. Additionally, more than 1,200 urban school children received training in non-violent problem-solving strategies. After some modest declines in recent years, it seems that Philadelphia's rate of violent crime is again increasing. Last year ended up with 324 homicides, up from 306 in 2010. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 And just two months into this year, there's been on average nearly one homicide each day. As of March 5th, a total 61 homicides for the first 65 days of the new year. In the past couple years, Philadelphia has consistently considered to have the worst homicide rate in the country of the most populated cities, a fact that is even used as a bragging point for some local youth. Clearly, all of us, whether in public or private agencies or just concerned citizens, have to do a better job of identifying and implementing creative strategies to reduce these alarming statistics. Each one of these over 300 each year victims of homicide often leaves 10 or 20 loved ones or even more who then must struggle to deal with the resulting emotional, financial and logistical complications, thousands of co-victims each year who need help. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 every day. Every day families of murder victims court advocates provide support as well as information to family members throughout criminal justice proceedings. Our counseling center therapists meet daily with child, adolescent and adult victims to help them process and move forward after a traumatizing experience with violence. All too often it's the children who do suffer most. Our senior child therapist often remarks that children of homicide families becomes the symptom-bearers of the trauma and grief that are ripping apart their families. And really in a way, they're the symptom-bearers for their troubled communities as well. In high-crime neighborhoods, it's estimated that one-third of children have witnessed a homicide and 70 percent have witnessed a serious assault by the time they are 10. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 it. Numerous studies have found evidence for the intergenerational cycle of violence, which suggests that violent and abusive adults learned this behavior as a result of being victims of or witnesses to aggressive and abusive behavior as children. Without competent and specialized assistance in processing the violent acts and healing their emotional and psychological wounds, individuals can lose the ability to lead healthy, productive lives. AVP works with these children individually and in groups, helping them deal with the trauma resulting from this exposure to violence. In a recent therapy group for teenage co-victims of homicide, one of our therapists had them perform an exercise to reflect their experiences. Eight young people stood in line shoulder to shoulder. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 another loved one. One of these teens took ten steps that day, representing the ten important people in her life who had died violently.
Too many of the individuals who took these lives violently were repeat offenders who are also often fugitives, cycling through the criminal justice system being charged with multiple serious offenses, but let out with sometimes minimal bail. One example of this was the highly publicized and tragic killing in January of Reyna Aguirre-Alonso, a potential witness in an earlier homicide. One of the men arrested was out on bail after being arrested for firearms violations. As part of an interdisciplinary team that examines in great detail the murders of all Philadelphia youth, I've heard way too frequently the histories of the young people who are charged with a homicide. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 grade. Some students record or 30 disciplinary suspensions in a year, then drop out at an early age. First arrests, as reported by the DA's Office at the meetings, are sometimes as early as 7 years of age. And consistently we hear 8 again and again of the youth who are 9 charged with violent crimes and firearm 10 violations, then released back into their 11 neighborhoods without proper supervision, 12 as well as all too many who have outstanding bench warrants when they're arrested for murder. Certainly the availability of bail for most of those charged with crime is an essential element of our criminal justice system. Our jails are already overcrowded with those who are held. But we need to work harder to make sure we're using the best criteria to identify those who can safely be released and the amount of bail they are required to pay. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 to be a major part of this. A Pew study in 2010 showed that 30 percent of defendants released before trial missed court appearances. When defendants don't show up in court, it defers and delays the delivery of justice and discourages witnesses, both by inconveniencing those witnesses who do show up or by scaring off witnesses who are afraid of testifying when the defendant is still visible in their communities. But in setting bail for those charged with violent crimes, we also need to perform a realistic and clear analysis of the potential danger they pose to other citizens in Philadelphia. We must work with increased focus and vigor to make sure there is not another Reyna Aguirre-Alonso or another victim who is killed after a dangerous defendant is let loose in the City. Thank you.
It makes you pause. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 I heard a startling statistic, that one of the predictors in this process -- and I've learned so much -- was truancy, truancy; that it goes as far back as that; that puts you in a different category. If we have these predictors and series of red flags, if you would, definitely one of them has to be the possession of a firearm; that if I'm walking down the street and I have a slingshot, that means one thing. If I'm walking down the street and I'm in possession of a narcotic, that means another thing. But if I'm walking down with a handgun, an illegal handgun, that should be a red flag for anyone with common sense. And, John, I'm going to ask you this question: Of the officers since '07 that have perished, how many of them were killed by a perpetrator that had a prior gun charge? MR. McNESBY: We have Chuck Cassidy who was killed in October of '07 DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 at the Dunkin' Donuts on Broad Street. That guy had a lengthy record, previous gun charge. Liczbinski in May of '08, the same story. Then we go on to Pat McDonald, who that guy should have never been on the street. And we then again asked for a moratorium on parole, which they did for, I think, three to four months, which calmed things down a little bit on the state level, and then they lifted that moratorium. And then we had, I think, Pawlowski. I'm not sure whether that suspect had a previous record or not.
-- three of them had prior gun charges. MR. McNESBY: And a lot of this goes back to -- and I'm not going to say that you have to be a rocket scientist to solve this problem here. The problem is that I see on our end, on the police end, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 and the complaints that I hear from our members is that they want to go out there and do the job. It's like giving the Commissioner -- and I can tell you, this guy came in from Washington and he's doing a hell of a job, but let's replace him as the Police Commissioner and make him a carpenter for today. You're giving him a toolbox and you're asking him to construct a house, and when he opens that toolbox, there's nothing in it. And that's what we have today, and by far, that's not any exaggeration. You have a Homicide Unit that can't get to homicides because they have no cars. They have no cars. They just put additional detectives in the Homicide Unit. They made a special squad for homicides for fugitives in the last couple weeks. They don't have a computer. We're buying them a computer at the FOP. We have officers out there that can't get to scenes because there's no DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 cars. We have nobody -- we're 400 down, 400 to 500 cops down. Times that by the 20-some-odd police districts. That's 5 to 25 officers short for each district. 6 Now, you can say that you're putting a 7 class of 60 in and another class of 60, 8 but by the time those officers are able 9 to graduate from the Academy, the 10 seven-month-long process, we're already 11 down probably 70 to 80 officers between 12 injuries, firings and also retirements. 13 So we're not even treading 14 water here, Councilman. We're slowly 15 drowning. And if people want to come to 16 this City, they're not going to feel 17 safe, they're not going to come. People 18 aren't going to let their kids out to go 19 to the store. They're not going to be 20 able to play in the street because they don't feel safe. And that's where we're at now. We're at a dangerous level here. You know, and we are trying to get the classes in, but 60 at a time isn't cutting it. We have to get 100, 150. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 And I'll also make one other point. I came on this job in 1989, and that was the end of the Goode Administration, and they were pumping classes out every month for two years, classes of 100, 120. Now, we have those officers now that are getting ready to retire. So they're coming up on their 20, years. So you're going to see a 11 lot more officers leaving in the next 12 couple years. 13 And, again, it's like giving 14 Commissioner Ramsey -- you're sending him 15 out there to do the job, but you're 16 handcuffing one handcuff behind his back 17 and telling him to solve crime, and we're 18 not going to get it done. And I think 19 we've had the best working relationship 20 between the union and the Police 21 Department and the Administration, but I 22 think we're all slowly treading and 23 starting to drown here. Something needs 24 to be done quickly. Again, people aren't 25 going to come to the City of Philadelphia DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 if they don't feel safe.
I believe it was the officer killed by the Dunkin' Donuts in 2008, Liczbinski, that there was a net put out a ten square block, dragnet, for lack of a better term, and in that, in the first hour I was told that there were five suspects stopped with illegal handguns in a ten square block area. Is that accurate? MR. McNESBY: I know that when -- that was in '07 with Chuck Cassidy on Broad Street. I know that there was a number of people stopped, and I know -- I don't know whether it was five, Councilman, but I know there was a couple people that were arrested that day with handguns.
And I remember that because it struck me that if you just did a random sampling and almost like you were fishing, and for there to be a random number of people just walking around feeling confident DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 that they could walk around with a firearm, it just put into perspective for me how unsafe we are, how unsafe you are to perform your duties, because there is that lack of swift and certain consequences that is not there. And so this hearing is to design that. I want you to understand, I heard you about the cars and I also heard you about the force size as problems and budgetary issues that we will attempt to address. It is my understanding -- I can't speak for the second floor -- that public safety is a priority, that there will be no cuts. And, in fact, we are going to take a look at what equipment, whether it's from the headquarters to the cars, to make it easier for you to do your job. MR. McNESBY: I think if we get some running cars, some working radios and some manpower, we'll be able to get a handle on this. And, again, I think the command staff and the officers out there DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 are doing a hell of a job. Commissioner Ramsey is doing a great job by holding -- it's like putting a Band-Aid on a gunshot wound, for lack of better words. But we're able to hold our own now, but we're not going to be able to continue to do that.
Of the perpetrators that you deal with, is there a greater sense of threat based on handguns today versus previous years? MR. McNESBY: You know, I've heard a lot about 1978 or 1995. That's when they had muzzleloaders and rotary phones out there. Today, times have changed. We have officers getting out of their cars and being fired upon with automatic weapons. We have -- look, this is a business to the Police Department, to solve crime, and it's a business to these crimes on the street to make sure they commit them. So we have to stay on top of that. We have to have, again, the resources, but it is -- we're at a DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 dangerous level, and the lack of respect not only for the Police Department but for everybody in this room is unbelievable. I was watching the news the other night where they had a guy say, Give it up, old man. And he gave up to the wrong -- it was a retired cop who had a gun. Well, that guy, you know, luckily he was trained, but we could be reading the front page of the paper again where we have somebody that could have been dead. We had another one Sunday night, I believe, and I get the messages over police radio, where an officer sees a guy with a gun in the 24th District, goes to stop him, the male runs, he runs to a house, he can't get in the house, he turns around with the gun and shoots and kills himself. That was unheard of, you know, years ago, you know.
I don't know if it's a sign of the times economically, DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 I don't know if it's just disrespect or a combination of both things, but the sense that folk who have firearms do not care about those consequences and the belief that holding a gun has become normal, we don't want it to be normal. Cities like New York, cities like DC have a lower tolerance for firearms. You go to jail, and you're going to spend a predictable amount of time incarcerated. So, therefore -- it was previously stated that many of the homicides are crimes of opportunity and impulse. Well, if you have to go all the way home to go get a gun, thought kicks in and the consequences may kick in. But at the heat of the moment, at the point of the altercation, if you have the tool, you make the motion, you make the move that you cannot take back. And we have to get a handle on this, and whether it's the bail system or better equipment or both, we're going to address it. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 MR. McNESBY: Thank you.
I just want to -- the DA's Office, do you mind coming up and just answering one additional question for me too as well. And I can follow up with Seth sidebar, but since we're doing this officially, I might as well ask this issue, because it kind of correlates with what we're talking about in terms of gun violence. (Witness re-approached witness table.)
What's the status of the Gun Task Force? MR. McCANN: It's still in existence, Councilman. We've gotten some -- and you know because you were in the State Legislature. We've gotten cuts to it consistently. But the proposed budget in this year's state budget is only going to be a 3 percent cut. We think we can absorb that without any DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 layoffs. Most of the agents are retired Philadelphia police officers. I think they do really good work, particularly as it relates to straw purchasing investigations and their profiles being a little bit more widened. They're going to be working with the Philadelphia Police Department in conjunction with GunStat in unsolved non-fatal shootings and particularly in the target areas for GunStat in the coming months.
Is there statistical data as relates to the level of guns recovered as relates to straw purchasing? MR. McCANN: I can get you straw purchasing data. Certainly I will get that for you. In fact, I'll try to get it for you this afternoon. But the vast majority of the guns that are recovered by the Philadelphia Police Department on the street at some point were owned legally by someone.
Of course. DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 MR. McCANN: And then there's the lost or stolen issue. There's people that sell their guns to somebody without reporting it, things of that nature. Straw purchasing, the numbers of straw purchasing prosecutions are small. Most of them are --
Why is that? That's kind of like really what I'm getting at. MR. McCANN: Most of the guns that are purchased by a straw purchaser are purchased by a paramour of a defendant. In other words, the defendant that has a record that would make him ineligible to possess a gun or buy a gun at a gun store --
So you get the girlfriend to buy it. MR. McCANN: Get the girlfriend to buy it. And as I told Councilman Jones in another conversation that we had, most of those are not mass purchases. They're not purchasing four DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 or five guns at a time. They're purchasing one gun or two guns at a time. So it's really labor intensive, because you're talking about a real small number of purchases. The Councilman was right on the money, there's no truck that's pulling up in an area of the City and opening the back of it and people are dealing guns out of the back of a truck. Most of the illegal gun trafficking is done at a small level. But it is a priority. I mean, you make a good point, it's something that's important to do, but the profile of the defendant is going to be usually a woman, a young woman, who is in a relationship with a defendant with a record. A lot of time there's domestic violence involved. I mean, there's a lot going on in those cases all the time.
Or she can just be the young lady that's in the neighborhood that wants to be down with DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 the crew and this is what she does, from just kind of observing it up close and personal. But I wanted to put that out there, because the other component and just growing up in South Philly and getting a chance to kind of see how we're still dealing with the issue of violence since I've been a young man until -- now I'm actually an elected official, and I've watched how the levels of artillery went from revolvers during the late '80s and the early '90s and to now we do some gun buybacks, right? And I wasn't always a big fan of a gun buyback. I thought it was cute, because you say, Bring me your gun and I'm going to give a coupon and you go get something to eat or some Christmas toys, until I had hosted a gun buyback in South Philly. Some of the artillery, I didn't see -- some of the artillery that I've seen like up close and personal, like, Oh, okay, you know, this is less guns that are out on the DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 street. And even if it's a .357 revolver from 1988, if it's a Taurus or any other type of .357 or a magnum, they still can do some damage, and even the .22 can that's a revolver. But I do know and I clearly understand, that's something I'm paying attention to. I'm glad when the City decides to -- House Bill 1523, which is trying to strip the City from having an opportunity to have to go after individuals who somehow lose their gun and they wind up in somebody else's hands, that that stays on the radar as a part of the equation. Because to me, all the components need to be addressed, and specifically you can't just lose a gun and all of the sudden the gun -- the same way even if I'm an elected official, if somebody takes my car and runs somebody over, the police are going to come to my house. They're going to say, Well, Kenyatta Johnson, it was your car, you'd better come up with some type of DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 explanation as to who was driving your car that committed this actual action. I think the same thing applies to individuals that carry -- individuals somehow lose their guns. And, no, I'm not infringing on anyone's right to carry a gun. I mean, I get it, but at the end of the day, from a realistic perspective, you know, for me to see a 16- or 17-year-old or 12-year-old or hear about them or like a six sort of like walking around, how do you get that? It's kind of unheard of, you know. And so that's just something I'll be interested in following up with the Administration on, the DA's Office from a supportive standpoint as a Councilman to see how do we move forward and making sure that that part of the issue is addressed as well. MR. McCANN: Very good.
Thank you, Councilman. And I just want to say you're DiscoveryWorks Global 888.557.8650 www.dw-global.com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 right about something, John. We need to put our money where our mouth is. We've closed gun court. As Councilman Johnson talked about, I think the last Goods for Guns in Philly is scheduled this year, because they ran out of money. And the Nuisance Task Force that used to be used to go into these troubled bars where we found these illegal guns and other activities has been disbanded. We really, as a body, need to take close account of where we are prioritizing our resources. And public safety is job one. You cannot do economic development if a merchant's afraid for their life. And so I thank you both for what you have provided, and it is food for thought for us. Thank you very much. MR. McNESBY: Thank you.
We are going to conclude this. Are there any other individuals here that wish to testify? (No response.)
com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 out by saying that last year there were 674 shootings -- not murders, shootings -- that did not result in death, and many of them aren't as dramatic. People go about their lives after the injury, but sometimes loss of job, loss of income, loss of the fear of life and limb. These are serious problems that we want to work in partnership with the District Attorney's Office, in partnership with the Police Department, in partnership with the courts to solve, and we are going to as the Public Safety Committee take this very seriously. It was alluded to that Reyna Alonso, the lady that was murdered by a gentleman that was out on probation, low bail, gun conviction before, and I can name names like Keisha Palmer in my district that did nothing more than drop her children off after work, picking them up from the daycare and was murdered by an illegal handgun. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 Joel Blumer, who was a merchant at 26th and Allegheny and was killed, shot twice this weekend. If you look at the weekend homicides -- and I watch teenagers who tell me they don't want to look at the news anymore because it is depressing to them. And somehow we as a society have become desensitized to the violence in our street. I grew up on westerns, and I wanted to be a cowboy when I grew up, just not in the City of Philadelphia. When we look at this and its impact on us and think about the people who are being murdered, I want you to know -- and I'll close on this -- that all life is precious, whether it's in Center City or in South or West Philadelphia. You see, the salient count in a tear is the same whether it's shed in Center City, on the streets of our neighborhoods, and we are going to take that more seriously. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 if they were visitors to the City of Philadelphia, it would make national news. If visitors coming to the Convention Center for a conference on toothpaste were gunned down in the streets, the National Guard would be brought in here, full attention of all forms of government would be brought to bear. But people die in neighborhood streets each and every day. And what scares me most is that we've become insensitive to the loss of life. And I will tell you this: We join our Mayor on calling out some of these thugs that think that it's okay to gun people down, but we also call out those people responsible in positions of authority to make those decisions to make our streets safe, and bail is one of those conditions that do that. Let me say this to you: We're going to be paying attention. And, no, we don't have authority to change state laws. com 3/7/12 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 120072 change gun laws. But we do have two things: the bully pulpit, which we've demonstrated today, and the budget, which we will demonstrate over the next couple of months. The call of the Chair of this Committee on Public Safety will stand at recess. Thank you. com CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 7, 2012, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L. com 90s 109:14