COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 RULES COMMITTEE - - - Room 400, City Hall4 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, June 10, 2009, time5 - - - Bill 090072 - City Ave. Regional Center, City Ave. Village Center Special District Controls.7 Bill 090071 - Held.8 Bill 090191 - Prohibit transfer of special9 approvals provided by ZBA. 10 Bill 090412 - Parking in Residential Districts 11 Bill 090413 - North Central Front Street Special District Controls12 13 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: 14 Anna C. Verna, Chair Blondell Reynolds-Brown15 Darrell L. Clarke Frank DiCicco16 Wilson W. Goode, Jr. Bill Green17 William K. Greenlee James F. Kenney18 Donna Reed Miller 19 Also Present: Marian B. Tasco 20 21 - - -22 V A R A L L O Incorporated23 Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 60024 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.267025 2 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
Good2 afternoon. This is a public hearing of3 the Rules Committee I would ask4 Mr. Erekson to please read the title of5 Bill No. 090071.6
Bill 090071, an7 ordinance amending Title 14 of the8 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and9 Planning," by amending Chapter 14-1600,10 entitled "Miscellaneous," by adopting a11 new Section, entitled, "Overbrook Farms12 Transit-Oriented Central Special District13 Controls," under certain terms and14 conditions.15 (Witness comes forward.)16
Good17 afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for18 the record.19
Good afternoon,20 Council President Verna and members of21 the Rules Committee. I am William22 Kramer, Division Director of Development23 of the Planning Division of the24 Philadelphia City Planning Commission.25 3 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 I am here today to testify on2 Bill No. 090071, which was introduced by3 Councilmember Jones on February 5, 2009.4 This bill amends Section 14-1600 of the5 Philadelphia Zoning Code by creating a6 new special control district for an area7 fronting on 63rd Street between City8 Avenue and Woodbine Avenue.9 The bill would prohibit certain10 uses in the district, most of which are11 auto-related, such as auto sales, service12 stations, and repair shops, as well as13 restaurants with drive-through service14 and dispensing windows on the sidewalk.15 It also allows for office16 commercial use to be allowed in17 properties whose base zoning is18 residential.19 The bill also establishes20 building standards for the district and21 signing regulations to be applied in the22 district.23 The Philadelphia City Planning24 Commission, at its meeting of March 17,25 4 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 2009, considered Bill No. 090071 and2 recommended that the bill be approved,3 with two amendments.4 The first amendment would be5 that Section 5-B.3 be removed from the6 ordinance because it would require staff7 of the Planning Commission to perform a8 historic review for these properties,9 which would encroach on the10 responsibilities of the Historic11 Commission. Additionally, it is expected12 that such review would require the13 expertise available only at the Historic14 Commission.15 Secondly, the Planning16 Commission is recommending that the17 portion of Section 5-A requiring the18 Planning Commission to coordinate Art19 Commission reviews in this area be20 removed. It is believed that such21 provision would complicate and likely22 delay the process of the Art Commission23 review.24 The City's Law Department has25 5 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 reviewed this bill and has requested2 certain technical language amendments be3 made in addition to the recommendations4 of the Philadelphia City Planning5 Commission.6 Normally, I would have those7 amendments here. And this morning, at8 10:30, I received an e-mail from the Law9 Department that those amendments are not10 ready at this time.11 I'm not certain what else to12 say. I did contact Councilman Jones's13 office and made them aware of, and I have14 heard no further comments from Councilman15 Jones's office.16
So17 I'm assuming that we will hold the bills18 until further notice -- that bill until19 further notice?20 Councilman Jones?21
Yes, Madam22 President. Thank you, Madam President.23 We are prepared to hold the24 bill, we would like you to hold the bill,25 6 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 in order for us to work out whatever2 problems they have by way of logistics3 for the legislation.4
And I5 think there may have been a few problems6 with the following bill, too?7
We do have those8 amendments from the Law Department. I9 was under the understanding that10 Mr. Cohen was going to be bringing copies11 of those. I have only the one, but I12 assumed you have them as well.13
Yeah, we17 worked that through yesterday --18 yesterday, was it?19
Very21 well. Thank you very much.22 I would ask Mr. Erekson to23 then, please read the title of Bill No.24 090072.25 7 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
Bill No. 090072,2 an ordinance amending Title 14 of the3 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and4 Planning," by amending Chapter 14-1600,5 entitled "Miscellaneous," by adopting a6 new Section, entitled "City Avenue7 Regional Center and City Avenue Village8 Center Special District Controls," under9 certain terms and conditions.10 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:11 Mr. Kramer?12
Good afternoon,13 council President Verna and members of14 the Rules Committee.15 I am William Kramer, Division16 Director of the Development Planning17 Division of the Philadelphia City18 Planning Commission. I am here today to19 testify on Bill No. 090072, which was20 introduced by Councilmember Jones on21 February 5th of 2009.22 This bill amends Section23 14-1600 of the Philadelphia Zoning Code24 by creating a new special control25 8 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 district, entitled "City Avenue Regional2 Center and City Avenue Village Center3 Special District Controls." These4 controls would apply to properties along5 City Avenue from the Schuylkill6 Expressway to 53rd Street.7 The bill would prohibit certain8 uses in the district, most of which are9 auto-related uses, such as auto sales,10 service stations, and repair shops, as11 well as restaurants with a drive-through12 service.13 It also establishes a list of14 commercial uses to be allowed in the15 district, notwithstanding the provisions16 of the existing zoning designation.17 These would include bakery, bank, grocery18 store, laundry or dry-cleaning operation,19 professional office medical building, and20 radio or television broadcasting station.21 The bill also establishes a22 variety of setback provisions for front,23 side, and rear yards, as well as24 establishing impervious (indiscernible)25 9 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 signage for all sites in the district.2 The district will establish3 both minimum and maximum height standards4 as well as bulk and spacing requirements.5 It establishes both minimum and maximum6 parking requirements.7 Bill No. 090072 also8 establishes design standards for sites,9 parking lots, and building designs.10 These would include provisions for11 minimum public walkways in order to allow12 for better pedestrian access to the13 entire area.14 The Philadelphia City Planning15 Commission, at its meeting of June 9,16 2009, considered Bill No. 090072 and17 recommended that the bill be approved, as18 amended.19 The City's Law Department has20 reviewed this bill and has requested21 certain technical amendments to be made22 in addition to the recommendations from23 the Philadelphia City Planning24 Commission, and these have been submitted25 10 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 for the consideration by Council.2 This concludes my testimony.3 If there's any questions, I would be4 happy to answer them for you.5
So6 that the Law Department's amendments were7 also included with what we received.8 Mr. Kramer, is this in a9 historic district?10
Not at this time,11 although some -- this one is not. The12 prior bill affects an area that is under13 consideration for the creation of a14 historic district, but one has not been15 established as yet.16
Okay.17 And you don't have a problem with this18 bill?19
You21 don't have a problem with the bill as22 it's written? I mean, are you telling23 people what type of glass they would have24 to use and the height?25 11 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
I3 mean, I thought that that was done in the4 historic district, but if you feel that5 you're going to be working on that --6
If I may,7 Madam President?8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 Please.10
The City11 Avenue project was started before my12 time; it was the prior councilman,13 Councilman Nutter, who is now Mayor, who14 established a working relationship with15 the special services district.16 What this will do is create a17 couple of things: One, increase density,18 a better look, and a more first-class19 look for that avenue. I think a couple20 of things are covered under there.21 It is more pedestrian-friendly,22 it calls for a little wider pedestrian23 walkway, and it calls for pervious24 surfaces where possible.25 12 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 So it is where -- in my2 opinion, in my background with commercial3 corridors -- where we should be going.4 It is transit-oriented to development as5 its best, and I think it's just a well-6 thought-out, good look for that7 particular commercial corridor.8
Some of the11 concerns that have been raised by the12 Commission staff:13 This is the first time we're14 actually having significant design15 controls put into an ordinance that16 affects a rather limited area of the17 City, rather than a citywide approach to18 this. And, frankly, many of us would19 like to have handled it as a rather20 citywide ordinance or a citywide approach21 to it rather than a piecemeal, individual22 approach.23 However, given the fact that24 the Zoning Code Commission is undergoing25 13 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 its rewriting of the Zoning Code, and2 some of these provisions may, in fact, be3 incorporated into that rewriting, it4 would then be allegedly or hopefully5 addressed within another year.6 And with the economy, we're not7 necessarily overly concerned that it will8 be overwhelmed with either reviews that9 we have to do or that there's going to be10 an influx of development that's going to11 be unnecessarily negatively affected by12 it.13 And that's why we were willing14 to let it go at this particular time.15
Thank16 you.17 The Chair recognizes Councilman18 Goode.19
Thank you,20 Madam President.21 I'm not sure where to start.22 Councilman Jones, to some extent, talked23 about the purposes of it. I guess I'll24 start with the fact that this was25 14 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 recommended by the special services2 district?3
This actually came4 about as a result of a coordinated effort5 between representatives of the Lower6 Merion and the City Avenue people. It's7 actually both a joint city and county8 venture to address City Avenue concerns.9 And City Avenue has half of it inside the10 City and have of it inside Merion11 Township.12 There's a corresponding effort13 along the same lines going on in Merion14 Township, as I understand it. I think15 we -- as I have been told, we're a little16 bit ahead of them at this point in terms17 of the actual legislative process, but it18 is expected that similar legislation will19 be in place on the Merion side as well.20
The end-goal25 15 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 of this is what?2
The end-goal is3 twofold. It -- the primary consideration4 is to address the pedestrian concerns and5 make City Avenue a more pedestrian-6 friendly place to be. And a large thrust7 of the directions here have been for the8 provision of sidewalks as part of -- and9 doing so using the Zoning Code.10 This has been something that11 has caused some angst amongst my staff,12 and we have gone around and around on13 this thing. As late as even yesterday,14 and even this morning, we've been15 discussing it with the Law Department in16 regards to how we do it.17 I don't think that we're -- we18 agree that the application is one thing,19 and it's the "how-it's-getting-done"20 that's bothering a lot of people.21
-- it sounds25 16 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 good, but --2
I'm sorry.9 It sounds good in concept; I'm not sure10 how you make City Avenue a more11 pedestrian district.12
Well, the way that13 they're intending to do it is to make a14 requirement that the sidewalks be ten15 foot. Now, that's only going to widen16 your sidewalk and allow you to walk on17 it, but if you don't do that, you're not18 going to get anywhere anyway, so -- but19 it's a start.20 Councilman, I didn't want to21 step on his toes either. I'm not sure --22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Councilman Jones.24
Thank you,25 17 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Madam President.2 Point of information:3 A, the Bala Cynwyd side is4 already put in their legislation and5 passed it; that's number one.6 Number two, as a part of a7 effort to have a more pedestrian-friendly8 environment on City Avenue, it is not9 just the sidewalks; it is the greening,10 it is the calming effect in the middle11 that we're trying to look for so that12 people slow down, that people are more13 comfortable because the sidewalks are so14 narrow.15 One of the things about the 4th16 Councilmatic District is that we have the17 highest number of assisted-living18 facilities concentrated in one area in19 any district, including people that need20 wheelchairs to travel.21 These small sidewalks have been22 a impediment to them. They will protest23 up at Belmont and City Avenue as to the24 nature of the inability of people to25 18 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 comfortably move about City Avenue.2 These are some of the things3 that will address some of that.4 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:5 Councilman Goode?6
Councilman,7 how is this going to affect the8 businesses along City Avenue? What is9 the intended effect for the businesses?10
The intended11 impact, one of them, is that right now,12 if you look and take a snapshot, you have13 a Jiffy Muffler and you have a 7-Eleven,14 which are fine establishments.15 But what we're looking to do is16 create a incentive to do density, to17 build closer to City Avenue. As opposed18 to having the parking lots in the front19 of City Avenue, we would like them, for20 example, to put them in back of City21 Avenue, to give them a little more22 flexibility on the height in order to23 create density so that people and24 developers are incentivized to want to25 19 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 improve those properties along City2 Avenue.3
Mr. Kramer,4 maybe you can tell me, what is the5 vacancy rate?6
Not personally,11 no. I -- I have -- my daughter's working12 out of one of the radio stations out13 there, but that's as close as I get.14 We do have in the audience15 Mr. Terry Foley, who represents the City16 Avenue District, and he very well may be17 able to answer that question for you.18
If he could19 come forward, please.20 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:21 Mr. Foley?22 (Mr. Foley comes forward.)23
By way of24 disclosure, I live a block-and-a-half of25 20 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 City Avenue. I live two blocks from one2 assisted-living facility and two blocks3 from the other.4
I will say, as8 Mr. Foley comes forward, one of the9 concerns was the type of uses that are on10 City Avenue, the latest being a used-11 motorcycle sales place, which is not12 necessarily conducive to the type of13 development that they wanted to see.14 But Mr. Foley is here and I'm15 certain that he can speak for himself.16
Good17 afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for18 the record.19
Hi. My name is20 Terry Foley. I'm the President and CEO21 of the City Avenue Special Services22 District. We are a multi-jurisdictional23 special services district covering both24 Lower Merion Township and the City of25 21 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Philadelphia.2 The district spans from 63rd3 Street on the Philadelphia side down to4 the Schuylkill Expressway. On the City5 side, it also goes back to Overbrook6 Avenue in many sections and as far back7 as Ford/Conshohocken Road in the Monument8 Road area.9
I do not know12 exactly the vacancy rate. There is not13 published information on commercial14 properties; there is on office15 properties.16 The office properties are17 primarily on the Lower Merion side, and18 that right now is about 87 -- the19 occupancy is 87 percent.20
So the25 22 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 special services district didn't actually2 survey the area itself?3
We have not4 surveyed the commercial properties in the5 last two years for that information.6 Anecdotally, I can tell you7 that the Keystone Tire property that8 Mr. Kramer referred to, at the corner of9 Gulph and City Avenue, as been vacant for10 several years, but, in the last two11 weeks, has been occupied by a used-12 motorcycle shop that has caused great13 alarm for ourselves and the Wynnefield14 Residents Association.15 Unfortunately, under the16 current zoning, they are allowed to be17 there, and there's nothing we can do18 about it. Under the zoning overlay, that19 would be a prohibited use. It's right20 next to the Jiffy Lube.21
I know22 exactly where it is, and I've seen the23 motorcycles sitting there. It's along my24 walking route in the morning.25 23 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
So you have3 no idea whatsoever what the vacancy rate4 is?5
I mean, can7 you at least guess what the vacancy rate8 may or may not be?9 And the reason why I ask the10 question is, I'm not sure whether there's11 an opportunity in terms of zoning related12 to -- I'm not sure how much new13 development can happen there, period.14
Okay. If we take15 the location that you walk by every16 morning, that's a prime example where17 what we'd like to see happen is that18 entire block to be redeveloped.19 But because of the challenging20 lot sizes that exist today, it's not21 economically feasible under the current22 zoning, but the zoning we're putting23 forward, first of all, would change the24 setbacks and bring the properties to the25 24 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 street, get the parking in the rear, and2 --3
I guess my4 question is: Are you trying to make5 zoning changes to change the retail mix,6 the store mix there?7
That's not10 my question. The questions is: Are you11 trying to change the store mix there?12
No, but the, um...16 I'm trying to pick the right words to use17 here.18
Well, let me19 ask you another question before you20 answer that one. Do you know what the21 mix of ownership is?22
The question25 25 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 is: Are the properties generally2 originally owned, or are they owned by --3 are there several properties owned by4 one, two, or three companies? Or what's5 the mix of ownership?6
Okay. The7 ownership tends to be absentee and tends8 to be individual. The Keystone property9 that we just mentioned --10
You keep11 referring to one property; I'm asking you12 about the entire City Avenue.13
Well, the answer14 is: It's diverse ownership, it's mostly15 absentee, meaning they're located16 elsewhere than this region, and they're17 individually owned. There's not one18 organization that owns many properties19 other than the universities.20
And so, you21 expect the owners to do what as a result22 of this legislation?23
We -- we do not24 expect the current owners to do much. We25 26 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 expect developers to become more2 interested in the area and to come in and3 acquire properties and then redevelop4 them.5
So through6 zoning changes -- through this7 legislation, you're essentially trying to8 take over properties that are currently9 owned?10
No, we're not11 trying to take over anything. We're12 trying to encourage redevelopment of the13 area. Among -- that's one part of it --14
The area's15 not underdeveloped, there are not that16 many nuisance properties there, although17 there are some nuisance properties there.18 I'm not -- I'm just not getting19 it, to put it simply.20
Well, it's more21 encompassing than just the redevelopment22 of the properties. It's also to make it23 more pedestrian-friendly, to encourage24 transit use in the area. We have a very25 27 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 large number of bus lines, we have two2 railroad stations, one of which is3 greatly underutilized. That's all --4 it's all a part of this legislation.5 There's a lot of moving pieces6 to it, as Mr. Kramer said, and we're7 really -- we're trying to encourage8 continual revitalization of the area,9 both on the Philadelphia side and on the10 Lower Merion side.11
I live in the City14 of Philadelphia; I do not live in that15 area.16
Okay, thank17 you.18 Thank you, Madam Chair.19 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:20 You're welcome.21 The Chair recognizes Councilman22 Clarke.23
Thank you,24 Madam Chair.25 28 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Good afternoon. I just want to2 ask you one question, and I -- let me3 preface this by saying that I support the4 Councilman's bill and the proposed5 amendments.6 But at 54th and City Line7 Avenue, there was recently, I think,8 within the last year or so, St. Joseph's9 constructed a building, and they moved10 the building up to -- closer to the11 property line.12
And my14 question is: One, I thought -- it seems15 like quiet an imposing building, and it16 actually seem like it is not pedestrian-17 friendly because it appears -- and maybe18 that's just visual -- that it actually19 shortened the sidewalk.20 The proposed initiative, do21 you -- is that what it's going to22 replicate along the corridor?23
'Cause I25 29 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 don't think that's --2
I was familiar8 with it. The St. Joe's proposal came in9 as an IDD master plan amendment, and I10 was certainly involved in the approval of11 that.12 And you're absolutely right; it13 does go right up to the sidewalk there14 along 54th Street, if I remember15 correctly.16
It's a combination18 dormitory and parking garage, if I'm not19 mistaken.20 And it wasn't designed as a21 pedestrian-friendly type facility. The22 university at that point was trying to23 maximize the available property to use on24 its own.25 30 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
This particular3 bill would wrap around that.4 The effects of it or the5 provisions go up to where that building6 would start and then continue on 54th7 Street for the small commercial strip on8 54th.9 This bill also has setback10 requirements as a front yard. And in11 that particular section of -- it's called12 the Village Center part of this. It13 would be a 20-foot setback from the14 street. The other provision says that15 you can't park in the setback.16 The object is to move the17 buildings back to allow you this space to18 put your ten-foot sidewalk and, at the19 same time, require that parking be20 required in the rear of the building so21 that you don't have curb cuts coming22 through the lots.23 As a practical matter, if you24 have a lot in the middle of City Avenue,25 31 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 with no other access, I'm not quite sure2 how you would do that, but that hasn't3 been finally nailed down. It was one of4 the concerns that we have. I'm not5 certain that that's all been answered as6 yet.7 But you're right. The object8 was to create a setback in the Village9 Center that is 20 feet, and I believe10 it's greater than that in what they're11 calling the Regional Center, which is12 further towards the Schuylkill13 Expressway, the Channel 6 site, and a14 number of buildings that target that area15 was a bigger setback.16 They are recommending that if17 you have a property that's more than 60018 foot in width, that you put a city street19 through the property. Originally, there20 was a bone of contention about putting21 that in, and the language, as amended,22 recommends it. Originally, it was23 required.24 I don't -- that becomes an25 32 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 issue in terms of the way to deal with2 that. If you want a city street, there's3 a whole city streets process to put it on4 the City Plan and have it dedicated, and5 that's what we were recommending.6 If someone wants to put a city7 street in, we'll certainly work with them8 to do that, if you have enough area or9 enough street frontage on any street, in10 order to increase the circulation both11 vehicularly and pedestrian-wise, because12 a part of that would require sidewalks on13 any new street.14
Could I also help18 with that answer?19 If go around the corner from20 the dormitories to the parking facility21 with the retail on the first floor, that22 is what we're looking for. And when23 St. Joe's went to do that, they came to24 us and said, We know you guys are working25 33 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 on something, and we explained to 'em2 where we were in the process with our3 committees and such.4 So what you have there is5 there's -- it's a parking facility, and6 it has retail on the first floor, so7 there's an a active use. And then the8 facility is screened on the upper floor9 so you don't see the garage levels.10
It has the adequate15 setback, it has the verge, which, in this16 case, is paved stones with trees, then17 the passageway. And then there's room18 there for some outdoor seating as well.19
But in20 retrospect, the City Avenue side is not21 something that --22
That's done and25 34 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 there's nothing we can do.2 But if you look --3
Oh, okay.7 All right. I just wanted to make sure.8 Thank you.9
Thank you,14 Madam President.15 Good afternoon, gentlemen.16 So can we safely assume, then,17 that the residents of that community will18 not again see a building set out in the19 way that Councilman Clarke has just20 described on City Avenue?21
If you're referring22 to the current dormitory, it's -- my23 understanding was that they did not24 appreciate that at that time. That25 35 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 community association -- it went through2 a residence association, and their3 president, Peter (indiscernible) and the4 group is in support of this. They've5 worked with us -- I'm sorry, I6 misunderstood.7
Please8 don't misunderstand me. I'm very much9 aware of the organization. And in the10 interest of full disclosure, I'm a member11 of that organization and can say that the12 community was deeply disturbed by the13 building being so far out on City Avenue.14 So the question is: Moving15 forward with the legislation, as proposed16 by my District Councilperson that I17 support, can we assume that the residents18 of that community will not again have to19 be accepting of a circumstance with the20 building so far out near the curb?21
That is correct.22 Based on the provisions of this overlay,23 the setbacks would be required; and,24 therefore, you wouldn't have a building25 36 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 immediately up on the sidewalk. That --2 you're absolutely right; they would not3 be faced with that unless someone wanted4 to do due process and go before the5 Zoning Board of Adjustment. So it would6 require community notification and a7 visit to the Zoning Board of Adjustment8 for such approval.9
The IDDs are not a14 part of this particular provision. And15 the IDD does have a master plan16 provision, which is going to, at a17 minimum, require approval of this Council18 as well as the City Planning Commission.19 And if the community has20 objections, they -- when we did the21 dormitory for St. Joe's, we were22 certainly aware that there were community23 concerns in opposition, and there were a24 number of different issues, as I remember25 37 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 it, that were being dealt with.2 And there were a number of3 different communities -- not just the4 overall community group, but immediate5 neighbors meeting with the architects and6 representatives for St. Joe's to deal7 with it. And it was our understanding8 that at that time, they came to an9 understanding amongst themselves, and we10 then let it go at that point.11
The only12 friendly amendment that I would offer to13 that is that it was not a community14 concern; there was strong community15 opposition to the university building an16 eight-story building in a community where17 you have single-family homes of only two18 and three stories.19 And after much work over four20 or five years, the community worked21 closely with St. Joseph's University to22 reach an agreement to alleviate 7523 percent of the concerns raised by24 neighbors. So that's why I raised the25 38 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 question.2 Is this instance an anomaly,3 that never again will we have to reckon4 with a situation that, you know, some5 might argue, was ultimately less than a6 compromise?7
Well, again, we do8 not have anything to do with the IDD9 district, but I just have to go again10 with the example of the newest St.11 Joseph's has built in the community,12 which is that parking facility, and they13 did go along with the guidelines that we14 gave them.15 And I haven't found anyone in16 the community that dislikes that17 building. I think everyone's very18 pleased with how it turned out.19
Well,20 again, for the record, we're extremely21 pleased because it took all of the22 parking off of 52nd Street and 54th23 Street, Church Road, and Rexford Road,24 when they couldn't even park in front of25 39 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 their own and in front of their own2 garages.3 So it was a great outcome, but4 getting us there was -- was awful.5
Thank you,7 Madam President.8 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:9 You're welcome.10 Are there any other questions11 or comments from members of the12 committee?13 (No further questions.)14
Thank15 you. Thank you, Mr. Foley.16 Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Foley. One17 moment please.18 The Chair recognizes Councilman19 Goode.20
Just,21 Mr. Kramer, one time: Can you explain22 what the Planning Commission's concerns23 were?24
There were many25 40 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 concerns with it. Largely, the first2 concern had to do with certain things3 that had been amended out of the bill at4 this point, so we'll leave those aside.5 The other concern that the6 Planning Commission had, it had to deal7 with the establishment of design controls8 and design standards being put into the9 Zoning Code in, let's call it, a10 piecemeal fashion.11 In other words, the design12 controls that are associated with this13 bill only have control and issues dealing14 with the avenue, City Avenue, and its15 environs. It's not a design standard16 that's being applied citywide.17 And the concern that we had was18 that we didn't want to necessarily19 approach design standard approvals in20 that fashion; we would much rather have21 dealt with it as a citywide design22 standard bill and organization.23 However, the reason that we let24 it -- part of this bill and let it25 41 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 continue forward without fighting it was2 because we understand that a lot of the3 concerns and design standards that are in4 this bill are not bad and they're not5 necessarily ideal, but they're not6 necessarily going to cause harm, either.7 We believe that that will be8 in -- subsumed by a new zoning code that9 we're working on in relation with the10 Zoning Code Commission work.11
Mr. Kramer,12 is it fair to say -- and I'm not against13 the legislation, per se; I'm thinking14 about unintended consequence.15 Is it fair to say that because,16 as the testimony has been presented, of17 there being absentee landlords who don't18 necessarily live within the area, that19 those landlords will not necessarily20 redevelop their properties and may not21 have interest in -- if they lose a22 tenant, fill in the vacancy at all?23
I don't know that24 this bill would affect tenancy one way or25 42 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 another. What this bill is more likely2 to affect is someone going in and3 rehabilitating a building such as tearing4 it down and replacing. It is either more5 or less likely to occur, depending on6 probably economic conditions way above7 what the zoning would be.8
But it wouldn't11 change the tenancy --12 (Indiscernible; parties talking13 over each other.)14
Mr. Kramer,15 these are two simple questions I'm16 asking.17
One, could19 this cause the underdevelopment of the20 City side versus the suburban side?21 And then, two, is this actually22 an incentive for those landlords to23 develop their properties anymore than24 they've developed them already?25 43 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
The answer to your2 question is twofold.3 The first one I can't really4 answer because I don't know enough about5 the other side of the street to tell you6 whether this is going to give an7 advantage or a disadvantage to our side8 of the City Avenue side; I just don't9 know what the other side is, to give you10 a comparative answer.11 With regard to the second12 component, is this going to be a13 incentive to drive on? I don't think14 it's going to be a incentive to drive on15 or -- it's setting a framework upon which16 to do it, so I don't know if it's an17 incentive to build.18
So it's not19 necessarily an incentive for anyone to20 redevelop their properties at all, one.21 And then, two, when you put in22 design controls on both sides of the23 street that possibly create additional24 costs to redeveloping properties and the25 44 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 cost of development is cheaper on one2 side than the other.3
That would depend4 on the design standards that you put in.5 If they're both the same, the cost would6 be the same.7 But it would, indeed, add to8 your cost in terms of upfront costs to9 develop; yes, it would.10
Well, for14 full disclosure, one of the most15 difficult districts is one where you have16 the Mayor lives, Councilman Goode lives,17 Councilmember Blondell Reynolds-Brown18 lives, Senator Hughes lives, and Louise19 Bishop lives one mile within that20 district. So we better get it right, and21 I understand that.22 (Laughter.)23
But to24 answer your questions, which I think are25 45 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 good questions, is that currently, you2 have a limit on how much of acreage can3 be developed under the current process by4 way of density that you -- and what we5 are trying to do is get an existing owner6 to be able to be incentivized to say, All7 right, I'm going to build more building8 on this parcel than I have before -- a9 little more height, a little -- you know,10 a little more girth. And we can also11 talked about esthetics by moving some of12 those parking lots that are out front in13 back.14 And I just think that if we're15 talking about expanding our way out of16 this recession and creating development17 and incentivizing development, this is18 the kind of zoning that we need to have.19 And I just think that, by way20 of your concern, the membership of the21 special services district, the22 dues-paying members have all weighed in23 on this, and they have said that this is24 something that they want to do.25 46 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 And so, if it's good enough for2 their judgment on development, then I3 think that it's something that this4 Council needs to support.5
I won't go8 much further with this.9 The question, Councilman,10 simply is: What is incentive? One.11 And, two, are the dues-paying12 members of the special services district13 the same as the absentee landlords, that14 the special services district talked15 about?16
The answer to the17 question is: Yes, the property owners18 are the folks who pay the assessments.19 We have an 18-member board, and nine20 people on that board represent the City21 side, that are all priority owners on the22 Philadelphia side. And they are local23 property owners. As I said before, the24 vast majority of property owners are out25 47 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 of the reasons.2 And, Councilman, I would like3 to address your question about unfair4 advantage of one side over the other.5 The ordinances in Lower Merion6 Township are mirror images of what we're7 doing on the Philadelphia side. Our8 consultant on this is (indiscernible)9 Kladner, and they have written and10 fashioned both sides' ordinances.11 So we want everything to be the12 same and to eliminate any advantages that13 may exist today for one side.14
But you do15 agree that there are advantages to one16 side versus the other?17
Personally, I think18 there's advantages to the Lower Merion19 side today.20
Thank23 you.24 Are there any further questions25 48 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 or comments by members of the committee?2 (No further questions.)3
Thank4 you, Mr. Foley.5 Do we have anyone else to6 testify on this bill?7 (No response.)8
Thank9 you.10 Before we proceed, I would like11 the record to indicate that we do have a12 quorum. To my extreme left is13 Councilwoman Brown, Councilman Clarke,14 and Councilman Greenlee. To my extreme15 right are Councilman DiCicco,16 Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Goode,17 and Councilman Kenney.18 I would ask Mr. Erekson to19 please read the title of Bill No. 090191.20
Bill 090191, an21 ordinance amending Title 14 of the22 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Zoning and23 Planning" to prohibit the transfer of24 special approvals provided by the Zoning25 49 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Board of Adjustment.2
Good afternoon,3 Council President Verna and members of4 the Rules Committee. I'm William Kramer,5 Division Director of the Planning6 Division of the Philadelphia City7 Planning Commission.8 I'm here today to testify on9 Bill No. 090191, which was introduced by10 Councilmember O'Neill on March the 12th11 of 2009.12 This bill amends Section13 14-1801 of the Philadelphia Zoning Code14 by prohibiting the transfer of special15 exemptions, certificate of variance, or16 special-use permit when granted by the17 Zoning Board of Adjustment from one18 parcel to another.19 Under the current provisions of20 the code, a property that receives a21 variance from the Zoning Board of22 Adjustment can be subdivided and have the23 relief applied to the new lot. This24 ordinance prohibit this condition by25 50 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 allowing zoning relief for the original2 lots and not for newly-created ones.3 The Philadelphia Planning4 Commission, at its meeting of April 21,5 2009, considered Bill No. 090191 and6 recommended that the bill be approved.7 This concludes my testimony.8
Thank9 you.10 The Chair recognizes Councilman11 Kenney.12
Thank you,13 Madam President.14 I understand the issue relative15 to subdividing the property and having16 the special approvals not be17 transferable, but if it transfers from18 owner to owner, does the approval19 transfer if it's the same use.20 For example, if it's a21 commercial property that receives certain22 approvals and the person retires and23 sells their business, do the approvals24 follow the business?25 51 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131
If the variance2 was granted, the approvals would stay3 with the land. So that if you had a4 business and sold it to me, I could then5 go in and use it without further6 acknowledgment of the board.7
You can't8 just subdivide it, though, and then do9 another operation --10
Right. I could11 not then take that property, subdivide12 it, and then apply the same variance to13 both new properties.14
Thank17 you.18 Any further questions from19 members of the committee?20 (No further questions.)21
Do we22 have anyone else to testify on this bill?23 (No response.)24 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:25 52 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Seeing no one, I would ask Mr. Erekson to2 please read the title of Bill No. 090412.3
Bill No. 090412,4 an ordinance to amend the Philadelphia5 Zoning Maps by changing the zoning6 designations of certain areas of land7 located within an area bounded by Cecil8 B. Moore Avenue, 11th Street, Montgomery9 Avenue, and 12th Street; amending Section10 14-1402 of the Philadelphia Code,11 entitled "Parking in Residential12 Districts" and by amending Section 14-30513 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "C-414 Commercial and C-5 Commercial Districts,"15 all under certain terms and conditions.16
Good afternoon,20 Council President Verna and members of21 the Rules Committee. 4 Bill No. 090412 is to allow for5 the construction of student housing on6 the site of the former Wanamaker School7 site. 10 This development is expected to11 occur in three phases. The first will12 renovate the existing school into13 apartments and a three-story overbuild14 containing 180 residential units and 60015 beds. In addition, two retail units will16 be created at the corner of 12th and17 Montgomery Avenue. 22 Phases II and III each involve23 the construction of apartment towers, one24 containing 12 stories and the other25 54 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 containing 20 stories. 5 The tower along 12th Street6 will have 305 units with 922 beds, while7 the tower along Montgomery Avenue will8 have 345 units, with 1178 beds. 11 As part of this project, 2812 underground parking spaces will be13 constructed. 17 Bill No. 090412 contains two18 components. The first is a rezoning19 component, which changes the zoning20 designation of the property from an21 existing zoning designation of parking22 C-2 commercial and partly G-2 industrial23 to a single designation of C-424 commercial. 25 56 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Bill No. 090412 has a sunset2 provision which indicates that the3 ordinance will lapse on December 13,4 2013, unless a building permit has been5 secured. 10 The City Planning Commission,11 at its meeting of May 15, 2009,12 considered Bill No. 14 I have been made aware that15 there will be amendments to this bill16 that will establish a parking17 requirement. We are -- that is18 consistent. 4 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:5 Mr. Kramer, I was distracted6 when you were testifying. 9
The plans that we10 saw had 28 underground parking spaces,11 and we understand that there were in12 total 2700 beds. The reason we were13 comfortable with that is, this was14 supposed to be student housing for Temple15 University; and, therefore, Temple16 University would be providing, we would17 assume, parking for their students, those18 that would require it, student parking.19 This is consistent with a bill20 that we did for a tower development on21 the other side of Broad Street at Cecil22 B. Moore that -- wherein there was a23 proposal for additional dormitory space24 to be built there, and this is consistent25 58 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 with the policies that we did at that2 point.3 But I understand that the4 proposal has changed a little bit since5 we had seen it. And in dealing with the6 community and Councilman Clarke -- may7 have more information on that than I do,8 and I know that their representatives are9 here as well and could probably address10 that at this time 'cause it has changed.11 There may be more parking than12 I'm aware of, is my point.13
Thank14 you.15 Any questions?16 Councilman Clarke.17
Thank you,18 Madam President.19 Real briefly, with respects to20 the parking, that was actually one of the21 final issues that remained on the table.22 And while I understand traditionally,23 students traditionally don't have24 vehicles, although we've experienced a25 59 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 number of students who have had vehicles2 in certain other locations, this3 particular development actually has an4 auditorium, for lack of a better term,5 that there will be events onsite6 periodically.7 So there was a need to have8 some parking strategies for that9 particular development, in addition to10 which, it is a neighborhood that there11 have already been some significant12 challenges as it relates to parking and13 some of the other things associated with14 the student housing.15 So, therefore, we had asked the16 development team to put together an17 amendment that essentially requires that18 for every three students, they will19 provide one parking space onsite. The20 reason why we insisted on having it21 onsite was because we did not want the22 parking to be identified offsite, which,23 frankly speaking, is a part of the24 problem that we've experienced in that25 60 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 part of the community, 'cause, for2 whatever reason, students feel the need,3 regardless of how cheap the parking that,4 quote/unquote, Temple provides, they will5 find a parking space in the adjacent6 neighborhood before they will spend 507 cents to park on the lot.8 So we want to have free parking9 onsite as a part of the development, and10 the development team has agreed to that11 amendment.12
Oh, and one17 other thing. I understand that the18 development team is in conversations with19 the property owner who has a parking lot20 immediately across the street -- I21 believe owned by Mr. Nicoletti -- to have22 arrangements when you have events -- when23 they have events onsite, that they will24 have opportunities to park, event parking25 61 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 for those purposes, separate and aside2 from the onsite parking facilities.3
Thank4 you.5 Mr. Kramer, will the university6 own the property?7
It's my12 understanding the Goldenberg Group is the13 development company and --14
The Goldenberg17 Group, is my understanding, but I may be18 wrong. Mr. Patterson is representing19 them and may have more information on20 that than I have.21
Thank22 you.23 And is there any assurance that24 the use as a multi-occupancy dwelling25 62 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 unit will be limited to student2 occupancy?3
That is not4 something we could put in the code5 legally; we could not differentiate in6 that way.7 It is our that's the proposal,8 and other than that, I don't know that I9 have any assurances that I can have10 legally in the code that would do that.11
Thank12 you.13 Any further questions of14 Mr. Kramer?15 (No further questions or16 comments.)17
Pamela Smith.21 (Witnesses come forward.)22 COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA:23 Mr. Patterson.24
25 63 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Good afternoon. My name is Ronald2 Patterson. I represent the property3 owner and developer, which is a joint4 venture of the Goldenberg Group. 12 Also, the other partners of13 Bright Hope Baptist Church, and with me14 today is Reverend Kevin R. 20 As a brief overview, this bill21 regards a property located at 11th and22 Cecil B. Avenue, the entire block. 6 acres. It is the site of the former24 John Wanamaker Middle School. 9 The property is actually10 located in two zoning districts, being11 G-2 general industrial and C-212 commercial. 21 So we requested a zoning map22 change and a Zoning Code adjustment to23 allow for a proposed project to move24 forward. And, in summary, it consists of25 65 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 a few different phases, the first being2 cleaning up and remediating the3 environmental issues in the existing4 building. 3 This is, as Mr. Kramer4 mentioned, not a Temple University5 project or partnership, but it recognizes6 their study that there's a need for 5,0007 future beds in that area. 21 The project construction costs22 are estimated at $250 million. 3 Also, to prove that this is a4 real project, there's a provision in the5 agreement of sale that we can't flip or6 speculate this project for profit for at7 least five years. 10 So what the ordinance does is11 change the split zoning district to C-412 commercial. 16 C-4 allows 500 FAR, which is17 the amount of gross floor area you can18 build times the area of your lot. 23 And that also is -- and in24 connection with that, we've offered to25 68 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 the Planning Commission, as Mr. 11 In the original version of the12 bill, we had removed any parking13 requirement. And in C-4, for each14 residential unit, you would be required15 one space for each residential unit. 19 And we understood the Planning20 Commission's goal of discouraging driving21 and parking, and we did conduct a parking22 study that showed that for the students23 that live onsite, less than 20 percent of24 them actually drive. The problem in the25 69 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 neighborhood primarily, as we saw it, are2 the commuters who are parking in the free3 parking. 12 So in Phase I, we can provide,13 because we're doing two phases, up to 25014 parking spaces onsite on the surface. 25 70 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 It's hard to retrofit an2 existing building to put in sub or3 below-grade parking. 7 So the committee also should8 know that we have prepared an equal9 opportunity plan. 3
Thank4 you.5 Just a moment, please.6 Reverend Johnson? Thank you7 and welcome.8
Thank you so9 much. Good afternoon, Council President10 Anna Vernon [sic]; our councilman,11 Mr. Darrell Clarke; and all of the12 members of the Rules Committee.13 I'm Reverend Kevin R. Johnson,14 Senior Pastor of Bright Hope Baptist15 Church and President of the Bridge of16 Hope Community Development Corporation.17 I'm here this afternoon with18 our development partner Mr. Collin Jones19 of the Goldenberg Group, and also with a20 host of Philadelphia and North21 Philadelphia residents and also members22 of Bright Hope Baptist Church.23 And if you don't mind, I would24 like for those persons to stand.25 72 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 (Above-cited individuals stand2 for recognition.)3
Madam8 President and the Rules Committee, I9 speak before you today not only as a10 pastor and a community leader, but as a11 student of history and one who12 understands Bright Hope's rich legacy in13 North Philadelphia and commitment to14 community and economic empowerment. In15 February of 2010, Bright Hope will16 celebrate 100 years of Christian witness17 and community empowerment in our beloved18 North Philadelphia community.19 When I was called as Bright20 Hope's pastor to succeed my predecessor,21 former Congressman Reverend William H.22 Gray, III, I accepted because my family23 and I wanted to live in a city and be a24 part of an urban community striving to25 73 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 become all that God intends for her to2 be.3 As you may know, Bridge of Hope4 Community Development Corporation, along5 with the Goldenberg Group, acquired the6 former John Wanamaker School in August of7 2008. Bridge of Hope Community8 Development Corporation was founded in9 the fall of 2006 by Reverend Gray,10 members of the Bright Hope Baptist11 Church, the residents of Yorktown12 Association, as well as Jefferson Manor13 Residents Association, and the State14 Representative of the 181st District and15 the State Senator for the 3rd district.16 Bright Hope is a community17 economic development corporation that is18 sponsored by the church but also has19 strategic interests in looking at our20 community as a whole. Specifically, we21 have been concerned about John Wanamaker22 School, which sits directly in front of23 our church.24 By partnering with the25 74 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 Goldenberg Group, the Bridge of Hope2 Community Development Corporation intends3 to joint-venture the development project.4 We are looking for ways to develop the5 project that will be a mixed-use6 facility, including our empowerment7 village for a leadership academy, but8 also green jobs, including that9 technology, and also residential housing10 for students who live there, in the area.11 The project promises to be a blessing to12 our community.13 As pastor, I must say to you,14 Council, that I am quite sensitive to the15 needs of our communities. Growing up in16 Texas, where I was born, I lived just two17 blocks away from my church, so I18 recognize the importance of the church's19 responsibility to its community.20 For that reason, I am21 personally committed to ensuring that the22 needs of those of the Yorktown and23 Jefferson Manor communities are addressed24 and that economic empowerment is truly25 75 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 realized for those who live, breathe,2 walk, and enjoy life in Yorktown,3 Jefferson Manor, Temple, and Brighter4 Hope Village. If this project is to be5 successful, we need your support.6 The last thing I want to share7 with the committee, I remember a man8 saying to me -- he asked me, what did I9 do? And I said, "I'm a pastor." And he10 said where? And I said, "in North11 Philadelphia." And he said, "Where is12 your church located?" I said, "12th and13 Cecil B. Moore." He said, "It's pretty14 blighted over there." I said, "It may be15 blight to you, but it's a treasure to16 me."17 So we are here today to really18 bring about that treasure and make this19 diamond really shine from the rough.20 Thank you.21
Good25 76 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 afternoon.2
Madam President,3 members of the Council, I just wanted to4 reinforce what our partner Reverend5 Johnson has said from Bridge of Hope CDC6 and Bright Hope Baptist Church, and to7 share with you some of things that the8 Goldenberg Group have done over the years9 since 1984.10 We have, in fact, developed11 close to 5.7 million square feet in and12 around the City of Philadelphia,13 including projects such as the West14 Philadelphia project at Parkside, South15 Philadelphia Columbus Commons, on16 Roosevelt Boulevard, in Northeast17 Philadelphia.18 And all of these projects19 involved community outreach programs,20 where we engaged with the local community21 groups. We pride ourselves on being able22 to complete projects and involve all23 members of the community in resolving any24 issues both upfront and during the25 77 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 process.2 I think if you speak to our3 partners at Parkside, at West4 Philadelphia Financial Services5 Institute, they would tell you that we go6 above and beyond what we are asked to do7 in the beginning to try and accommodate8 all of the requirements.9 So with that being said, I'd10 like to echo the Reverend's request for11 you to support us in this endeavor to12 turn the John Wanamaker School into a13 wonderful mixed-use facility that could14 encourage growth in the community and15 provide some of the beds that Temple has16 said that they need.17
Thank18 you very much.19 The Chair recognizes Councilman20 Kenney.21
Thank you,22 Madam President.23 I think Temple probably owes24 you a debt of gratitude also. I can't25 78 6/10/09 - RULES - BILLS 090072, 191, 412, 4131 think of a better way of breaking down2 the town and gown confrontations than3 having actual development in the4 community with community involvement and5 having an additional way of bringing some6 of these students out of the7 neighborhoods and into these concentrated8 places, where they won't conflict with9 the neighbors as much as they have been.10 I assume from the rendering11 that there must be some sustainable or12 LEED type of issues relative to the13 project. And maybe for the record, it14 would be good if you could explain or15 describe some of the sustainable features16 of the project and maybe the LEED -- some17 LEED qualities if they're there. I18 assume, from looking at all of the glass19 and other things, that that's its case.20