civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - July 22, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jul 22, 20204h 57m

break now?

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okay okay and then we'll come back that way we don't have to stop in between and if we'll be

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back in 10 minutes yes tanya i cheer if i could mention madeline shakamba has been on the line

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for a very long time she does have her hand up at this time if we can acknowledge her when we return

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we'll do that first thing thank you thank you

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I believe before we took the break, Tanya, you mentioned that Chacumba wanted to get on, testify first.

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Ms. Chacumba, you can unmute yourself and speak.

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I would like to speak after Mr. Orfanides. Can he take it for first speaker, please?

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Chacumba, you have, there's an echo.

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we're not I'm not here and hearing you clearly does she wish to speak last it

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appears chair after David Orfanides goes okay all right mr. Orfanides you left

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on me you're muted sir David you're muted yep thank you good evening

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everybody david orphanetes on behalf of fortune properties llc the owner of um oops the owner of

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2031 to 35 washington avenue which is uh property located three properties to the east of uh 21st

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street which is the prop the street that bounds the property that we're here for today to the east

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um david would you spell your name for the stenographer sure it's uh david d-a-v-i-d

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last name is orphanetes o-r-p-h-a-n-i-d-e-s and you swear a friend

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you swear a friend to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

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i do thank you um so again i'm here on behalf of fortune properties llc the owners of 21 or 20 31

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to 35 washington avenue and chelsea huang is here with me it should be on here with me

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she's one of the owners of that entity and she is here on behalf of that entity and also

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on behalf of herself and can i just make sure that she is on and unmuted

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and the property and the people we're talking about are the same folks you were testifying

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on behalf of their project last week yes correct what's her name again um it's chelsea huang and

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i think i'm looking on the list of names did they raise their hand

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looking on the list of names I've asked her to do that let me see yes we

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when we were on break I asked her to raise her hand until I called on her so

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give me one minute I don't know where she was she was on the call

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Apologize for this. We literally just spoke while we were on the break, so I'm not sure.

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On the telephone?

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I don't think she's on the telephone, but I can give you a number in case it's coming

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up that way.

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Last three digits.

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Last three are 188?

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No.

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Can you give me one second, please?

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What name her device is listed under?

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I mean, I would imagine it would be, I mean, when we were here last week, she was

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under her last name, and I'm not really sure. Can I, can you give me one minute? I apologize.

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I thought I had this all arranged while we were on break. Give me one second.

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So, she says she's raising her hand, but I don't see a hand raised.

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I see hands.

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What's the name is her device is under?

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That would be very helpful.

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Okay.

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So, last name is H-U-A-N-G.

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First name, can you spell it for me?

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no i remember that name from last week it's not on here qiao sorry for the feedback is the

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beginning of the official her official first name david ask uh ask her if she's if she could

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be listed under yizhou lee that seems to be the only hand up could you be under yizhou lee

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yes that could be a thanks sean i can't see that enough i can't see that that's her

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that's her husband's name okay she can speak chelsea can you hear us

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yes i just unmuted oh there you go that's my husband's name uh my name is chelzen kwan

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spelled the q i a o z h n last name h u a n g and you go by the first name of chelsea

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yes okay and are you uh one of the owners of fortune property llc um one of the members of

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that llc that owns as a record deed owner of 2031 to 35 washington avenue yes and you're here this

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afternoon i'm representing you on behalf of fortune property llc and also in your own behalf

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correct correct okay chelsea do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but

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the truth. I do. Thank you. Chelsea, how long have you, um, you owned the property at located at

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2031 to 35, uh, Washington Avenue? About eight years. About eight years. And, um, do you,

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how do you use that property? Uh, how have you used that property? Have you used it by your,

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for yourself? Have you rented it out? How do you use the property? Using it operating business for

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myself. Okay. And what's the name of that business? Ready Home Supply. Okay. And what do you, what does

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that business sell or what is its business? Basically retail business for home supply and

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countertop fabrication and insulation. And you had, as a chairman reference, you had an application

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or have an application before this board to develop that property for a mixed use residential

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to continue your existing use and then to add residential units above it with additional

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parking, correct? Correct. Okay. That matter has not been decided yet by the board, correct?

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Correct. Okay. And how close is your property located to, it's the 200 block of Washington Avenue, correct?

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Yes. Okay.

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What's that? It's about two buildings close to 21st Washington.

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So we're almost at the end of the 21st of Washington.

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Okay. So we're almost at the end of the 21st Washington.

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Okay. Thank you.

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Okay, thank you.

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And right now, where do your clients that come to you, your customers,

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who aren't picking up, let's say, materials, countertops, cabinets, things of that nature,

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where do they park when they come to your business?

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They park on Washington Avenue, loading and loading from Washington Avenue.

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Okay.

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And if they're not loading and unloading, if they're coming in to have a meeting or to look at what you might have on display, things of that nature, where do they park?

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They park on the street or the loading area, basically on Washington Avenue.

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Okay.

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So when you say the street, you mean Washington Avenue?

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Yes.

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and could and could that be the 100 blocks might they park on if you know

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did they only park on the 200 block did he park on other blocks could be

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anywhere that nearby our showroom okay and you understand you've have you been

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on the call since the beginning of the presentation by mr. Whalen no what's

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that I did not understand that you've helped you've been on the call since the

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beginning of the meeting, correct? Correct. Okay. You heard Mr. Whalen's presentation and his

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witnesses' presentation regarding the project that's being proposed at 2101 Washington Avenue,

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correct? Yes, yes. And one of the refusals, the two main refusals that we're going to be talking

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about are the refusals for failing to provide the required number of loading spaces. The refusal

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indicates that there are three where one is proposed and the required number of

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parking spaces is indicated 169 and only 120 are proposed you're aware that

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those are the refusals that are some two of the refusals that are before the

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zoning board correct correct okay and in terms of those refusals and the

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project as it presented today to the board still maintaining those refusals

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what is your position regarding the project are you in support of it are you

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opposed to it I opposed to it okay and can you speak to what your issues are

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regarding the project as it relates to those refusals and my big concern is the

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are loading uh because it's a lot less loading uh don't it will really have a negative effect

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to our business and to our neighbor business too because it will be you know since we have

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a commercial coming into 21 and 22nd street and there will be a lot of customers coming in

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so uh will require more of the loading

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what about and what about sure i'm sorry mr chairman where would the loading interfere

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with the proposed project in front of us interfere with your business you load your customers load

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and unload on Washington Avenue yes so why I'm curious what how would this

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impact that this project impact that I can speak yeah sure yeah customer if

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it's more customer coming into a commercial area they might using our

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loading uh space instead of really right in front of the uh uh 21st or 22nd area so so because it's

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more uh traffic come in that's why the uh loading you know it will be packed because every time you

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only have 30 minutes to load and unload and um so if it's coming in if if your project were approved

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If I recall correctly, you had two loading spots, one or two loading spots on Washington

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and they're the same loading spots we're talking about now, correct?

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Yes.

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Why is the difference?

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You're going to have loading?

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If your project gets approved, how would that prevent anyone from using those loading zones

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that was not affiliated with your business?

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public loading

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they're public loading spots

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I understand that

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people still can

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park in our

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business

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and then go to

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do the shopping

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on the what's that called grocery store

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own the uh what's that called grocery store um you know other things on that so if your project

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you know

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would get approved is my question you're still faced with the same problem aren't you the 30

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minute loading zone is available for anybody whether the project we're hearing about today

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gets developed or not so that's why we're hoping that we can there's a more loading zone can be

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created, not just one. But if it's not enough loading zone that what you see

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our session of it instead of using, you know, their session of it. That's why it's

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concerning. Is it just the load the issue of loading or is it also the issue

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of of not having enough parking for the businesses and residences also the

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parking definitely yes and and why is that what happens in your opinion if

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there's not enough by the code parking that's required by the code for the

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proposed uses that are here what what is your fear that will happen not enough

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parking is still impact same thing you know not not enough parking it will it

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just you know create more of the uh traffic congestion and you know it could be uh you know

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people were doing the double parking stuff like that are you suggesting that if your project

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got approved that wouldn't exaggerate exacerbate what we're talking about today

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i mean the more the more cars or more units they get built and the more businesses they get built

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there's a likelihood that it's going to create more pressure on parking mr chairman we're

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providing i mean if we're going to talk about our project we're providing the parking that's

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required for our number of units and they're not but she still has a concern right but she still

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has retail she has a business correct that people come and go to her business and it's very likely

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i would think that there are more than two customers at a time using up the loading zones

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in front of her property so they got to park somewhere else correct so they park on washington

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avenue there's some customers and she only has she just has nowhere near the thousands tens of

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thousands of square feet that we're talking about at 2101 so the concern is is that there's going to

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be possibly more overflow from this given the lack of compliance with the zoning code requirements

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that they may park on street and that's what i think has been trying to convey that's the concern

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I hear what you're saying. You're doing a good job, but I don't know. You can't have it both ways.

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I think it's a question of scale. It's a question of, you know, that's 30 residential units. This is, you know, we're not often parking there. So I think it's a question of the scale of it. But I think she's made her, without belaboring the point, she's put out her concern. She's concerned that more people, there's not enough parking, they're going to park on the street, and there's going to be less available parking for her customers.

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refresh my memory david 30 30 units in her project and how many parking spaces 15 we're

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meeting the one to two requirement so we don't we do not have a parking refusal i didn't say you

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did i'm just trying i'm using numbers yeah i understand 30 units 15 spaces right if everybody

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every unit has a car those 15 cars that can't park in the garage are going to put pressure

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there's going to be pressure for everybody's my point it's a question of scale it's a question

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of scale. I mean, at 256 and 120, I mean, we're now talking, they don't have, if we're doing one

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to one, then they're 120 short. It's a little different than being 15 short than being 120

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short. It's a question of scale. It's a question of scale, I think, is what we're talking about.

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Understood. Understood. Thank you. I think we understand what you're getting at. So I don't

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have any more questions for Ms. Wang. I do want to ask some questions of a couple of questions

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of Mr. Whalen's witnesses, but Mr. Whalen, would you like to cross Ms. Wang? Yeah, I do have just

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a few questions. Chairman, I'll let Mr. Orfiniti's direct. Do you want him to finish with my witnesses

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and then have me cross, or would you like me to go right now? Whoever works best for everybody here.

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I didn't want to interrupt your presentation, Sean. And I think but I think now it's probably better if maybe you jump in as we go rather than coming back.

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I'll jump on this. Yeah.

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Miss Wang, it's good to speak with you again. Pleasure meeting you last week.

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Thank you.

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So you said that you're worried about the loss of parking in front of your building, correct?

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Yeah.

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Okay. Your building, does it currently have any commercial or industrial parking?

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We do have a loading zone.

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We do have a loading zone.

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But no dedicated parking spaces, correct?

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But no dedicated parking spaces, correct?

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Not. When you say dedicated, not really, no.

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Okay. And if your project is approved, the commercial use will not have any parking spaces dedicated for it, correct?

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The 15 spaces proposed are just for the residential units?

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Yes.

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So even if your project is proposed, there's going to be no change in circumstances with regard to the parking and your available parking or loading on Washington Avenue, right?

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Yeah, we're just having extra of the loading space right in front of our building.

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Now, Ms. Wang, you know, we've testified, there's a lot of testimony today that this project has been ongoing for multiple years.

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um did you attend any of the rco or other neighborhood meetings actually no okay have

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you ever stated any uh public opposition to this project before today no uh did you state

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any opposition before uh mr feibush uh opposed your project last week no okay uh i have nothing

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further for Ms. Wang. And I just have a couple of redirect. Ms. Wang, right now at the present time,

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people can park inside, pull inside, and park inside your building if they need to load or

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to do something related to your business, correct? Correct. Okay. But your existing permit for your

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use right now does not require accessory or call for accessory parking, correct? Yes. Okay. And the

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The nature or the amount of, well, as the project that's being proposed, that's presently before, not before the board today, but that was heard last week and is still pending in front of the board, you're calling for a substantial reduction in the square footage of that industrial use, correct?

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Yes.

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Okay. And it's nowhere near 30-some thousand square feet, correct?

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