Reed Slogoff is here to speak on their behalf.
Okay. Our Vice Chair has just a few questions for you, sir.
Good afternoon, Counselor. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
Good afternoon, Mr. Vice Chairman.
I agree to waive the reading, but I do not stipulate to its accuracy simply because the notice of refusal calls these use refusals.
And as I will explain, they are certainly dimensional refusals. They are not refusals.
Understood. Have you emailed all the required documents and exhibits to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I have.
Thank you. Please proceed.
Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Hello again, members of the board.
So we're here to talk about signs.
That is what this refusal and the zoning permit application that triggered it are about.
And here, I'll zoom in a little bit just so you can see.
It says that the application is for the erection of three flat wall signs and that our signs are too big.
Depending on their location, we have three signs.
they're either permitted to be 100 square feet in size like this way as if you drew a box around
them to measure them or 160 square feet or all three of the signs are the same they're each 321.3
square feet so those are clearly dimensional issues the type of sign is allowed it's their
locations are allowed um they're just too big right so under state law and sort of common sense
Those are dimensional refusals. They're not used refusals. But otherwise, let me show you the sign
so you have a sense of what we are talking about. Here is one of them. So this is sort of a well-known
building at 18th in the Parkway. It's got a cylindrical tower that rises from its base.
It used to be for a while a hotel called the Embassy Suites, and it's now called the Terrace.
So here is one such sign. There's three of these. So I'm going to show you real fast a couple.
That's a different one than the one I just showed you. And here is the third. And then we have a
site plan. And I'll go back to those photos in a minute so you can have a better look at them.
But here's a site plan that shows where those signs are located on the tower. This is our
zoning plan. So Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that we have art commission approval. So I'm going to
show you that approval and briefly use our submission to the art commission as a way to
talk about the history of the property. So here's the art commission's approval letter.
And we also have approval from the Department of Parks and Recreation. Both of those agencies have
I'll call it prerequisite approval authority over signs on the parkway. So one thing I want to make
clear from the outset to you is that your decision today, contrary to what the RCO letter may have
said, is really not precedent setting because every sign on the parkway, whether it's by right
or it's not by right like ours requires art commission and dpr approval before it can get
to you and further as you know if you do grant a variance that would of course not pertain to any
other properties and it wouldn't pertain to future signs on our property but we do have
art commission approval certainly won't read this but here's a letter that was submitted to the art
I certainly won't read this, but here's a letter that was submitted to the Art Commission, and I'm just going to then scroll down to a couple of building permits that we recently pulled and use these as a sort of base to talk about history.
Commission.
So the ownership group purchased this building in December of 2018 and planned a renovation to improve the look of the ground floor and find a replacement tenant for the former TGI Fridays.
I'll just go down really quickly, and I am in Exhibit 12 here.
Here's the Friday space on the parkway.
I'm sure you've all seen it, maybe remember it.
And here is a rendering of sort of what that was replaced with. Now, that space and its sign are not a subject of the refusal, but I bring them up to talk about what happened here.
So my clients sort of get underway here on the left is their building permit to renovate that Friday space to prepare for a new tenant.
And this permit, this building permit for that renovation was issued in late February of 2020.
That was about the last few weeks of normalcy in our lives before COVID came to Philadelphia and turned the city into a silent still frame.
Um, and my clients were really in trouble because they were getting underway with that
renovation of the ground floor, but that hotel upstairs was no longer seeing any clients
and was getting to the point where it was soon not going to generate any revenue for
itself or the building owners.
So my clients had to think really fast or else they were going to be stuck with a closed
ground floor space that was going to be a sort of a vacant concrete wall to the parkway. So what
they decided to do, because before it was a hotel, that tower was an apartment building.
They decided to take it back to apartments. They thought that would do better during the pandemic
than a hotel. So they got the hotel out of there. They pulled, here's on the right, a commercial
permit from October of 2020 that allowed them to do that use conversion from hotel to apartment
and some related structural renovations. In the process of, you know, making that change happen,
the embassy suites signs had to come down. So I'll just go back to that photos, those photos now.
Now, here are the old signs.
There were only two of them as opposed to three,
but those two were sort of in a similar location
to two of our three.
And what the charter annotations say about that role is that, quote, I'm sorry, is that the Art Commission has jurisdiction over, quote, the most important and expensive properties of the city, end quote.
So that's just to say that the Art Commission has design experts on it and decades of experience trying to determine what is appropriate art for our public spaces.
And they worked with my clients to design these signs and then approved them.
I think that's very important to keep in mind in the face of the RCO opposition, which I'm going to talk about in a second.
Because this may be a case where the city's own in-house experts should have, you know, a higher say than one RCO group.
I'm going to go to some of our letters by our near neighbors.
So although this is in the Logan Square neighborhood, the immediate area is not, you know, is mostly not residential, right?
To the west and the north are residential neighborhoods, but what's around us is a lot of office buildings, some hotels.
So this map in the blue stars shows where the letter writers are from in comparison with us.
We're the red star. This is the map at Exhibit 9.
And I'm going to quickly go through pieces of these letters and tell you who they're from.
This letter on my screen right now, page 63, is from Brandywine Realty Trust.
They own three office buildings that all surround our property, one of which is on the parkway,
one Logan Square.
And they wrote, you know, in support of the signs, quote, the purpose of this letter is
to offer our support for the design and signage changes,
which the terrace is seeking approval for, end quote.
Next page, page 70 is a letter from a charter high school
that is directly across the parkway from us.
So like it or not, they have to stare
at our building all day.
Won't read any of this,
but it really mirrors the last letter from Brandywine.
It is explicit support for the three signs
we're talking about.
Next letter on the following page is from the Logan Hotel, which, again, the same sentiment, quote, we feel strongly that the signage is additive, end quote, to the parkway and helps attract locals and visitors to the parkway.
And finally, and maybe most importantly, this is a letter from Paul Levy, the CEO of the Center City District, which is a private organization that the city contracts with to maintain its own spaces.
So Dilworth Plaza is probably the most notable of those spaces, but CCD also maintains several green spaces on the parkway.
So again, CCD and Sister Cities Park, which it manages, they have to look at us all day, like it or not.
And again, Mr. Levy supports the signs and says, quote, that they help ensure the continued viability of the building and the vibrancy of the parkway, end quote.
So let me compare that really quickly with our experience with the RCO.
So I met with Mr. Slogoff from the ownership group with the RCO on Zoom.
They did allow us to make a lengthy presentation explaining why these went up without the zoning permit. It was a mistake of law. My client thought that the Arc Commission approval was sufficient, but they didn't really engage in discussion with us.
They basically said, we're really not pleased that you put these up before speaking with us
and the zoning board. So please go home and let us think about this. We're not happy with you.
So we parted ways and they sent us a letter, I think a couple of weeks later. And that letter
is on your screen on their letterhead. And you can see for yourself the three things they requested.
I'll summarize briefly.
Number one, to give them an inventory of other signs on our property.
No problem there.
Number three is about trash, which I'll discuss in a second.
And number two in the middle is that they want to make sure that if you were to grant
a variance, that it would not allow us to put up other signs or change these signs.
But if you seek the counsel of your solicitor, I can promise you that these approvals, if you grant them to us, would not allow us to put up any other signs.
So number two is taken care of.
taken care of. That basically leaves the trash. And Reed, who you'll hear from in a minute,
That basically leaves the trash.
And read.
wrote back about 10 days later, and this is his email to the author of that letter from the RCO,
and explained that he had fired the private trash hauler of which the RCO complained,
signed a new contract with waste management, increased the number of pickups,
and installed a new system where waste management can come into the property so that they don't
leave dumpsters outside. These were, you know, prompt, significant actions to address the RCO's
concern. What followed is an email from the RCO. The zoning board was copied, so I'm not showing
you anything that they didn't intend for public eyes. And it basically says, sorry, but after all
that, it's not about the trash and it's not about, you know, the other things we brought up. In
reality, they're just too big. And we're afraid that this is going to set a precedent for big
signs. So I'm going to call our expert witness to talk about why these signs have to be the size
they are. But suffice it to say, again, no sign is getting by on the parkway that's anything close
to this big without you, the ZBA and the Art Commission and DPR saying yes every time. So
So with that, I'd like to call first Reed Slogoff to adopt my testimony, and then Morris Clark, who is the architect.
Mr. Slogoff, please unmute yourself.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court reporter?
Sure. Reed Slogoff, R-E-E-D-S-L-O-G-O-F-F.
Do you swear or affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do. Proceed, counsel. Thank you. Reed, are you authorized to speak on behalf of the various
in common I named earlier that own the building? I am. Okay. Did you hear my testimony just now?
I did. I did. It was very comprehensive. Thank you. Was it true and accurate testimony to the
best of your knowledge information and belief yes it was would you therefore adopt it on behalf of
the ownership group as if it were the owner's testimony i would yes i would um you know keeping
in mind that i've already spoken for a while i'm going to bring morris on next is there anything
else you want to add to what i said no i i appreciate your giving all the background that
we have we've worked very hard to um do everything the right way we've done that for many years we've
developed several properties in the heart of center city including the logan square neighborhood and
um you know we we feel that um everything you outlined accurately indicates this situation
which was really a technicality that um we feel is unfair okay all right um thank you so um
mr chairman my uh next and final witness is uh morris clark okay mr clark could you please
come on state your name and spell for the court reporter
Morris, Clark, M-O-R-R-I-S-C-L-A-R-K-E.
Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
So, Morris, I have Exhibit 13 on the screen.
If you can see this, can you confirm that this is your professional resume?
Yes, it is.
Okay. Can you briefly summarize for the board what you do for a living and your experience or training that sort of led to that?
Yeah, I'm an architect at EAS Architects. I'm the director of operations and a partner here.
I'm sorry, Chair.
Mr. Clark, I know. I don't, John. Mr. Clark, could you get closer to the mic? We're having a hard time hearing you.
Yes, I'm sorry. Is that any better?
Maybe try a little bit more.
just really speak up more in a forced way okay can you hear me that okay great um so i am a
partner i'm the director of operations and project architect with das architects and we are located at
1628 jfk boulevard in philadelphia uh i've been uh with das for over 18 years uh i've been in the
here in the city and up and down the east coast on projects similar to this high-rise projects
been in front of the art commission as well as the zoning commission for signs and several other
projects as well within the city. Thank you. So Mr. Chairman, I would ask that the board accept
Mr. Clark as an expert in the design of signage. We will listen to his testimony as an expert.
Okay. Thank you very much. So, Morris, are you familiar with the three wall-mounted signs that I've been speaking about in this hearing?
Yes, I am.
And were you familiar with the Embassy Suite signs that predated them in similar locations?
Okay. What's the basis of your familiarity with both the new and the old signs? Do you live near there? Do you walk by? Just how do you know them?
Yeah, I walk by the site twice a day on my way into the office from the parking garage
that I park at and on my way back out.
Okay, so based on that, is it fair to say that you're also familiar with this area of
Ben Franklin Parkway around 18th Street?
Yes, I am.
Okay, so I'm going to bring up those same photographs just as a reference for you.
And I'm going to ask you a couple questions. So based on your experience with both the new signs and the old signs, do you think that by right-sized signs, such as the old signs, which I will put up one of now,
do you think that by right sized signs would be legible to pedestrians or motorists beyond our
own block no okay um do you think that by right sized signs would potentially cause drivers to
strain to see them yes um can you expand on that a little bit for the board you know what
yeah i mean um you can see in this photo that you have up uh the signs are quite small they're not
legible um if you are driving i know this post speed limit's 25 on the parkway but um the cars
are not doing that people are driving a lot faster like i said i crossed this road uh twice
at least twice a day um and people are moving at high rates of speed and uh sometimes distracted
um smaller signs would uh the smaller signs that were there um are not you can't really see them
from from a distance so if someone's trying to find where they're at they're paying attention
they're looking around they're not uh completely concentrating on both driving and and the signage
um it's hard to find and uh the the new signage i think is is much more proportional to um allow
people to be able to see them at a safe distance to be able to pull over if they're driving um or
you know make any required turns um to be able to pick up drop off or or come to this location
okay um morris the image i have on my screen right now which is in exhibit 14 and it's page 95
Can you, do you, is this the southeastern corner, which is to say the far corner of 17th and the parkway?
Okay. So we're looking at our property from that vantage point?
And would you say that from this vantage point that the old Embassy Suite sign that I'm showing you is legible?
It is not.
And just the same question really quickly, I now I'm at page 93 of our exhibits.
Is this the far corner?
So this would be the northwest corner of the intersection of 18th Street and the Parkway?
Where the campus?