And we're looking at the old embassy suite sign that was opposite that corner.
Is that right?
Is this a photo of the new terrace sign on this corner?
Yes, it is.
Do you find that this sign has substantially improved legibility and visibility versus the old sign here?
Yes, I do.
Is this sign similar to the other two wall-mounted signs that we're here to talk about today?
Yes, it is.
And do you also feel that those two signs present an increase in visibility from what was there prior, if anything was there prior?
Yes, they do.
Okay. And finally, to conclude, quick questions.
Number one, do the signs pose any sort of safety hazard to the public, the new signs?
Okay. Do you think they degrade the quality of life of the public?
No, I think they're nice looking signs. I think they add to the building.
And last question, just to attempt to summarize your testimony, is it fair to say that our signs are about the minimum size at which they would be legible to pedestrians and vehicles off of our own block?
Yes, I believe. I believe so.
Okay. Thank you.
So, Mr. Chairman, that is our presentation,
and I'm happy to have Morris or Reed take questions.
Questions from the board?
No, Mr. Chairman.
No, Mr. Chairman.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Chair, we have Dennis Boylan.
Hi, Mr. Boylan. Could you state your name, please, and spell for the court reporter?
My name is Dennis Boylan, D-E-N-N-I-S-B-O-Y-L-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Proceed, Mr. Boylan.
Good afternoon, Chairman. Thank you for your time. I, too, have a deck, but I,
unless it's required, will proceed verbally. I disagree with a number of the items presented in
the testimony of the applicant, but I will start off by saying that the Logan Square
Neighborhood Association unanimously opposed this request. The vote was 30 to 0. Not only does it
violate the letter of the law. The signs are too big. And just to make very clear, too high.
The council mentioned that they were placed similarly. They're one whole floor above. And
his photographs, if we went back and did it compatible with the previous signs for embassy
suites, would show that. And the spirit of the law. These signs were erected. And then now we're
seeking approval. The refusal under consideration is to permit the erection of signs, not to legalize
an existing situation. And let's make that very clear. You know, this is we're putting the cart
before the horse here. And the Art Commission, notwithstanding, and the Parks and Rec, I would
be fascinated to read the testimony before the Art Commission and whether the question was asked
about the square footage of the signs when they did their evaluation of it. I would be the most
interested to hear if they understood the concept of signs that are 321 square feet, which is what
these are, each one of them, versus the permitted 100 or 160. I don't think the Art Commission asked
that question. I would be happily corrected on that if the other side would like to point that
out. This size discrepancy, even though it's taking place at the beginning of COVID, is not
a rounding error. This isn't a clerk just making a mistake here. 321 versus 100 or 160. It was a
decision to go big and to go high. That was what the decisions that were made. And as the developer
clearly stated, they're experienced in signs around the city. And with the four letters of
support that they had, each one of those entities, each one of them, because I have the photos of
their properties nearby, has code compliant signage. So they may have written a letter
saying, oh, the signs are great, but they complied with the law and adhered to what is the parkway
buffer zone. So it's very important to understand that, that we're now allowing signs along the
Benjamin Franklin Parkway, an area that we not only have a zone that regulates the signage,
but also the height permitted in the area, that we're now going to allow something that breaks
that. And there's future development planned in the parkway area, so we're setting a precedent.
And there's future development planned in the Parkway area. So we're setting a precedent. And we're saying basically ignore the law, put the sign up, and then come back and plead for forgiveness later on. Somehow that just doesn't seem to make sense to us as an RCO.
And that's why it's not something that can be negotiated, because it is part of the Parkway's fabric. All the other entities on the Parkway adhere to the signage code. This one doesn't. Let's also talk about what it was previously. It was an Embassy Suites Hotel. That sign was 92.05 square feet. This again, 321.
one. Embassy Suites seemed to be okay with that. And they were a hotel that had to have people
find their building, contrary to the expert testimony, and people pull into their driveway.
This is not a hotel. It's an apartment house. It does have, I think, one of the sonder floors in it,
but it doesn't have the same requirement as a hotel to have signage for directing customers in.
it's an apartment house. So in the end, what we believe is that the ZBA should deny this request
for variance. And we have the support of Council President Clark standing with us. And we believe
that these signs should be removed, and that code compliance signs should be replacing them.
Thank you. So, Mr. Chairman, I will do these things very briefly, I need to cross
examine Mr. Boylan, and I need to bring on Morris to redirect him. It should take a couple minutes.
Okay. Mr. Boylan, are you speaking on behalf of Logan Square Neighbors Association?
Yeah, that is correct.
Okay. Can I ask about your personal experience with these signs? Do you
do you live or work somewhere where you can see them from these locations or you just see them
in the course of traveling the parkway? I've lived for 42 years in this neighborhood just
off the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. And so I would question, you're questioning my ability as a near
neighbor. I am a near neighbor. And just because you brought it up in your presentation, I work
closely with the business entities down there. One of the entities that wrote you a letter of
support, we work very closely with on issues regarding the parkway. I deal with the Logan
Hotel on issues of noise coming off of their building. So yes, I'm very-
Mr. Boylan, let's try to stay to his questions. And I think your answer was,
you've lived there for 42 years
and you're well aware of it.
My last question
is for establishing standing
in the event of a court of appeal
is whether Mr. Boylan
can see the sign from his home.
That's a yes or no answer.
And now I'm done.
The answer is no.
Thank you.
So I'd like to bring Morris back on.
Wait a minute.
Thank you, Mr. Boylan,
for coming in and testifying.
Morris...
can you hear me yep we can see okay perfect hey morris i'm just going to bring that photo on one
photo series on one more time so um did you just hear the um testimony that mr boylan gave
on page 94 here's the new one on page 95 here's the old one could you approximate
the difference in the positioning in terms of height if there is any
uh go back down to the existing they're at a different angle i don't think it's even the same
It might be a floor, but probably less.
Okay, thank you.
And, Mr. Chairman, I'll just conclude with two of my own remarks.
Brandon, why don't we see if there's anyone else in the virtual audience, right?
Okay, that's absolutely fine.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience that has a comment?
I see no hands, Chair.
Proceed, Brandon.
Okay, thanks.
Sorry about that.
Let's see.
So I just wanted to show the board the refusal one more time. You know, here we are, reason for refusal. The proposed signs above the second floor windowsill is prohibited in this zoning district. And I know how that reads.
And so I understand I'm going to give Mr. Boylan the benefit of the doubt that he believes the signs are too high per code.
But what the examiner meant, if you look at the zoning code, is that if the signs are higher than the second floor, that these size limitations exist.
size limitations exist i don't believe that the code says that they are too high period okay i
I don't believe that the code says that they are too high, period.
OK, I just wanted to clarify that.
just wanted to clarify that um and then the last thing is and i'll stop sharing my screen
And then the last thing is, and I'll stop sharing my screen, you know, if you're if you're a scoff law, if you're out to put up some signs and break the law and have no regard for the city's requirements, you don't go to the art commission before you do so.
And, you know, if you're if you're a scoff law, if you're out to put up some signs and break the law and have no regard for the city's requirements, you don't go to the art commission before you do so.
My client simply made a mistake, as many do.
My client simply made a mistake, as many do. It thought that that was the only permitting required. That's it.
OK, Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chair Bergman, Sarah Bond, Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing CMX 5 zoning being located on the Benjamin Franklin Parkway.
This property is subject to art commission approval for all building permits, including signage.
The three signs proposed for the tower portion of the building, along with others on the ground floor, were approved as designed and installed by the art commission.
Therefore, the city planning commission has no opposition to granting the variances required to legalize these signs.
Thank you. Brandon, we've had a lot of testimony on this. And I would really like to sit with the board members and go over and take everybody's point of view in. And then what we'll do is next Wednesday, we'll vote at two o'clock.
OK, thank you. Thank you. And thank you to planning commission on that comments, too.
We're going to move on to the next case. Number 12, MI 2022-006-980-241 South 6th Street.
David Feynman is the attorney. Letter of support from Society Hill Civic Association.
Letter of non-opposition from Council Member Mark Squilla. Signage approved also by the Art Commission.
Hi, Mr. Feynman, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court reporter?
S. David, F-I-N-E-M-A-N, counsel for both one Independence Place Owners Association,
as well as two Independence Place Owners Association.
Do you swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Our vice chair has just a few questions, sir.
approximately 500 separate units. I also want to take this opportunity initially
to thank Ms. Emerson, who we spoke to yesterday regarding certain issues that involve condominium
associations. Let me also indicate that I have with me Gary Crimstock, an attorney in our office,
who's probably the expert in the city in regard to condominium associations and condominium law.
So should the board have any questions, we can address it to him, as well as Rachel Rempel,
an associate in our office, who has helped us with this matter. Let me begin by going through
the notice of refusal and indicate to you that you'll see that in the notice of refusal,
it goes back to certain provisions that existed back in in the early 90s which was why it was
refused at the same time that one independence place had a sign that existed for a long period
of time we estimate over 40 years and i think we can pull off that old sign for you just for a
minute and then explain how we got so you see the sign on on the left hand side one into independence
place with the address on it that sign came down when independence place then did a renovation
Mr. Feynman, Mr. Feynman, do you have, we're seeing the complaint, we don't see the sign.
Oh, there it is. Okay, thank you. Okay, that sign came down when Independence Place did an entire
renovation of its outside area, and that was because the underground parking needed to be
renovated. So in this case, since you've heard all the testimony about the last case, in this case,
what occurred was that our builders went and applied for new permits, and when they applied
for the new permits, it was indicated that we needed to get permission to put up the signs.
So this was the application that we filed for the appeal, and the location of the sign
is the same exact location that existed before.
We then have gone to the RCOs,
and you'll see all the notices that are made to the RCOs,
and we then revised our plans
as different from the previous sign,
um and and this is the revised the revised plans
um eventually we met with the rco and the rco asked us to revise the plans again
which we did and you'll see a letter of support from the rco
which is signed by Mr. Bonnie we just received actually an email from Mr. Bonnie indicating that
he's he he was on the zoom for some period of time and he had to leave but we if he's not back on
he wanted the board to know that he apologizes for not being able to describe his full support
personally, and he hopes the letter is sufficient to understand that the RCO is in support.
Please make sure that the board approves the plan referenced in my letter. And the plan
referenced in his letter was then we had received approval from the art commission for the initial
plan. The RCO asked us to actually make the letters a little smaller. We agreed.
Mr. Feynman, who's the president of the RCO?
Paul Boney, is that Bonnie?
Paul Boney is the chair.
Okay, fine. That's what I thought I saw.
Yeah, and we did that.
We have gone back to the Art Commission to receive approval of the revised plan.
We're putting that in front of you, and we just received, you'll see the date here, 4-11, which is yesterday.
We just received approval of the revised plan.
And the last thing that we have is just to show you that the appropriate posting.
that the appropriate posting was made in front of the condominium association.
If you have any questions, I'm happy to take them.
The only question I would have, you went by a little quick, could you show us what the final sign looks like?
you'll see it right there just the address okay no oh i oh i see it okay fine fine thank you
there and what we've done this sign actually the letters are going to be a little smaller
Okay, fine, sir.
And that is my case.
Why don't you bring your client on?
We'll have your testimony adopted.
Let me ask Mr. Deshefsky, if you're here, if you could sign on.