Committee Hearing, June 10, 1998

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - Room 401 City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, June 10, 1998 2:00 p.m. - - - BILL 980239 - an Ordinance amending Section 9-402 and 10-108 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Animal Drawn Carriages" and "Rental and Carriage Horses," respectively, as well as the approved route map for carriage horses, to change the working conditions for horses and to restrict carriage horse routes and business hours, all under certain terms and conditions. BILL 980388 - an Ordinance amending Section 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code, relating to sidewalk sales, by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on Verree Road from Oxford Avenue to Bloomfield Road and Rhawn Street from Pine Road to Algon Avenue. PRESENT: COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY, Chairman COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER, Vice Chairman COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN FRANK DI CICCO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 980239 DOUG ORDELL ---------------------------------- RANDALL HIRSCHORN, Health Department ------- VALERIE PHILLIPS, Animal Advisor Comm. ----- ERIK HENDRICKS, PA SPCA -------------------- 6 DR. HOLLY CHEEVER -------------------------- 47 7 WILLIAM HAWKINS ---------------------------- 67 8 MICHAEL SLOCUM ----------------------------- 73 9 BARRY PENN --------------------------------- 79 10 JOSH GRIMES -------------------------------- 86 11 IRWIN ROBINSON ----------------------------- 87 12 CANDICE SCHAEFFER, CARE -------------------- 90 13 DEBBIE KRAMER, CARE ------------------------ 95 14 LESLIE WOOD -------------------------------- 96 15 BILL 980388 16 JOHN P. CAMPBELL, L & I, Legistlative Regulatory 17 Affairs Manager ----------------------- 103 RICHARD BONO ------------------------------- 104 3 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

We will now have a hearing by the Council Committee on Licenses and Inspections chaired by Councilman Kenney.

Good afternoon. I am Councilman Kenney on License and Inspections. We have two bills for hearing today. Our present first bill is Bill No. 98 -- please I'd ask that we have silence in the room because no one can hear. If you need to speak, please go in the hallway. Bill No. 980239 is an ordinance amending section 9-402 and 10-108 of the Philadelphia code entitled "Animal Drawn Carriages" and "Rental and Carriage Horses," respective, as well as the approved route map for carriage horses, change in the working conditions of horses and to restrict carriage horse routes and business hours, all under certain terms and conditions. Is there anyone here for the Administration to testify on this bill? Can I see the hands of the individuals in the room who are testifying in favor of this bill 23 as it exists today without amendment? And those who are opposing the bill? Do we have a list of witnesses? Mr. 4 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Hirschorn is here from Health Department? Mr. Hirschorn, please. Good afternoon. Thank you for waiting. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.

Doug Odell.

Please proceed with your testimony. I would ask all conversations in this room be taken into the hallway now. Thank you. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.

I'm Doug Odell.

Please proceed with your testimony.

I've been a full-time blacksmith since --

Sir, just one precaution. You have to pull the microphone directly to your -- it's an old system, you have to speak directly into the microphone.

I've been a full-time blacksmith since 1977. Part of my training has involved study at the University of Pennsylvania's New Bolton Center. I continue to maintain contacts 5 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 there with the center's veterinary faculty and work on many of their research horses. My past experience with city horses include shoeing for the Wilmington and Newark, Delaware Police Departments. More appropriately, a good portion of my work over the years has been with pleasure and competition and carriage horses. With any proposed changes to a city ordinance, you would logically want to hear solid documentation presented by experts in the field. And you might expect someone who has cared for thousands of horses over many years to be a reputable source of this data. I am not this resource because most of the information I assimilate and use in interacting with horses is not documented. It amounts to a lot of unpublished experience: Feelings that allow me to assess what I think horses need to stay sound and healthy. Even if this information were documented, it would be of only limited value because individual horses can react very differently to their environment and environmental conditions themselves are so fraught with variables. I think that experienced feelings for 6 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 horses' needs and some common sense will outweigh the value of cold, hard facts. To accommodate a class of horses such as Philadelphia's carriage horses, I feel the guidelines should be used that will safely protect the range of needs of all the horses involved. They should also be practical to enforce and should not drive caring, responsible operators out of business. So without further ado, or documentation but with experience, I will give you my recommendations for these ordinance changes as both a horseman and a blacksmith.

Before you begin, do you have a copy of the pink bill that we're dealing with?

No, I do not.

It would be easier when you're suggesting those changes that you use the Bill to refer to so we can follow with you. Do you have specific sections you want to talk about?

Yes. I do have the categories. Do you need numbers? Heat index, for example? 7 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Yes, that's fine. MR ODELL: Okay. Heat index: Heat exhaustion is the biggest concern here. To allow for variation in the way carriage horses react to temperature and humidity, I agree that it would be unwise for horses to leave the stable for work if the heat index is 94 or above. But because some operators use older, more heat susceptible horses, I would like to see the index lowered to 90. In regards to low temperatures, most of the danger horses have during the colder months is when they have worked and then left to stand in a cold wind. Since clipping would be difficult to regulate and wind protection during work is so variable in a city with tall buildings, I feel that providing blankets at 32 degrees or freezing mark or below with wind chill would be the most practical way to help horses stay comfortable. As far as hours worked, it would be difficult to properly correlate the number of working hours to the heat index or wind chill factor, so I would assess the number of working hours based on the maximum heat index or a low wind chill. To this end, I feel that six hours is a 8 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 realistic year-round figure for the total time a horse spends away from the stable.

Sir, what was the wind chill number again, your suggested wind chill number?

At the freezing mark.

32?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Inspections: From my experience, the best managed barns are the boarder facilities that can be scrutinized at just about any time of the day or night. To ensure that optimum standards are being maintained, I would have unannounced stable inspections by independent professionals at least two to three times a year. If it is deemed appropriate to this committee and to Council, I will personally volunteer my time to the City to help in this regard. (Applause) Ground temperatures: This is not addressed directly in the Bill. All city streets, regardless of color and composition, can produce high ground temperatures. Fortunately, horses' feet 9 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 have built-in radiators that are able to dissipate a lot of this heat because of the way their circulatory system is designed. But these radiators will not work efficiently on very hot surfaces for an indefinite period of time. In extreme cases, the results can be catastrophic. My first experience with this phenomena came years ago. One hot summer day, a number of 10 Lippizaner stallions based in Charleston, West 11 Virginia, were unloaded from their transport plane 12 and were left to stand on a airport Tarmac until 13 ground transportation arrived. There were 14 unexpected delays. Before the trailers came, many 15 of these stallions, in only minutes, went down from 16 the crippling ground temperatures. A number of them 17 were lost that day to laminitis, an extremely 18 painful condition that often leads to the breakdown 19 of the hoof wall, and ultimately to the death of the 20 horse. 21 Considering the potentially disastrous 22 consequences of laminitis to the horse, the 23 potential for injury to passengers and bystanders, 24 and the spectacle and traffic nightmare that would 25 ensue from a horse going down on a city street, I 10 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 feel some precautions are easily warranted. During the warm months, I feel horses should have shady resting areas with plenty of water available, and the earlier guidelines outlined for heat indices and working hours should be followed closely. Lastly, in regards to hard surfaces, working and standing on hard city streets exacts a price on a horse's bones and joints over time. From my experience, any advantages gained through the use of pads or non-steel shoes for reducing concussion is outweighed by a longer list of disadvantages. But I would strongly recommend that stable stalls, regardless of composition, be matted and/or heavily bedded to ease leg fatigue. Matting in resting areas would also be encouraged. Thank you. (Applause.)

Thank you very much for waiting and for you testimony. Are there any questions for Mr. Odell? Councilmember Rizzo.

As a blacksmith and a horseshoer, are you convinced that most of the operators use the appropriate shoeing techniques for 11 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 safety? I remember back in -- they used to use borium on shoes so the horses wouldn't slip. Should we address the way the horses are shod by the various operators, or do you feel confident that they're following the proper procedures for this type of activity?

Of the horses that I have seen shod in Philadelphia, and I really haven't done a close inspection, most of them look like they're adequately shod. I mean, I can always see room for improvements. Yes, they still do use borium and sometimes drilltech on horses' shoes to minimize slipping. And that's one of the -- fortunately, that's one of the good things about carriage horse shoes is that that gives them some elevation off of the streets so the ground temperatures aren't as effective in building up temperature. I honestly don't know if some of the operators are using some of the plastic shoes that are available even for draft horses. The ones I have seen shod are conventional steel with borium. And of the small sample size that I've seen, they seem to be adequately shod. 12 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 I'd love to visit the stables and see firsthand and get closer inspection and I'd be glad to file a report with you.

Fine. I'm just concerned that that subject's been addressed because there's nothing worse than having an animal as large as a horse not be able to get traction when it's necessary.

Right. That's something that has to be monitored from shoeing to shoeing. As long as they're adequately built up at the time the horses are shod, usually that will be sufficient for that shoeing interval.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

You're welcome. Any other questions? Councilmember DiCicco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Concerning the matting that you're suggesting, what material is that?

The best materials are made out of just pure rubber. There are some asphalt 13 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 analogs that are used from some of the horse transportation services that you can buy through building supply stores that are relatively cheap, but unfortunately, with driving horse shoes, they don't usually hold up as well. My recommendation would be rubber matting.

Do you know of any other municipalities where horse carriages are being used today where they provide for matting?

No. But I'm not that familiar with the carriage horse operations outside of the City of Philadelphia.

My concern is that if we were to require matting, it would obviously have to be laid down on the a public street. And I can imagine the legal questions that would come about as a result of the city providing rubber matting, or whatever kind of matting it is, onto the surface of the city street and the issues that that would create for us. So I just was trying to find out if there was someplace that we can use as an example or look to as an example.

I'll be glad to look into that for you. I don't know really how that would 14 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 affect -- see I'm not that familiar with the resting areas that the horses have right now, if they're just using parking spaces. The mats are only about three quarters of an inch thick, and it certainly wouldn't affect a car being driven over it.

I'm concerned about pedestrians that would cross over that. Who would be responsible for picking up the matting? Does it stay their permanently? I see John Campbell from L & I shaking his head.

Well, these sheets of matting are very, very heavy. It would be hard for one person to move by themselves.

So it would almost be a permanent fixture to the street?

It could be very easily.

That would create some problems for us.

Can I add something to that, Mr. Chairman?

Sure.

I think I've already seen those mats, especially the pull-out area to 15 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 give the horse a little bit more traction. I've seen, I think, by Independence Mall some of those mats already in place.

I just wanted to point out that if the number of working hours is limited to six, then if that matting was provided in the stable areas, that would probably sufficient.

That's what I thought you were referring to, the stall.

Right. Well, that as well. Resting areas and in the stalls.

I think we should use the standard. Do our police horses have that comfort? I think that they work maybe not as hard, but as long hours on the street. And if our city horses have that, I think that is reasonable.

Thank you very much. The Chair now calls Mr. Hirschorn from the Health Department. Please identify yourself for the record.

Certainly. Good afternoon Members of the Council. My name is Randall Hirschorn. I'm director of Environmental Health Services with the Health Department, and I 16 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 have the pleasure to be accompanied by Ms. Valerie Phillips who is the chairperson of Mayor's Animal Advisory Committee whose committee advises the Health Commissioner on animal matters.

Please proceed.

In response to the proposed ordinance, the Health Department sees no 9 problems with the proposed changes, and in fact, was consulted on some of the changes. For example, the proposed requirement for waist management plan. I personally have been dealing with the residents in the Society Hill area where the carriages operate for a period of about nine years. Because of the continuous deposition of urine and feces from the horses on the streets where they have their homes, we tried working with the carriage companies and a satisfactory solution was not achieved. And as a final resort, two years ago I requested of the Department of Streets that they have a flusher truck brought in every morning, which they have been able to do for the past two years at the expense of flushing other residential streets, which to those residents is not fair, but because of the unusual amount of waste material which has strong odor in 17 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the summer, we felt we had no alternative. So the Department requested that those who are responsible for the deposition of urine and fecal matter on the streets be responsible for its removal. And we're asking that they submit to the Department a plan under this proposed ordinance to eliminate that waste in a timely fashion so as not to create a public health nuisance for the residents that have been dealing with this problem for at least a decade that I'm aware of.

So your testimony is as far as the provisions of this Bill is enforced today, the Health Department supports them and would enforce their implementation.

Yes, sir, we did.

Thank you. Please identify yourself for the record.

I'm Valerie Phillips. I'm Chairwoman of the Animal Advisory Committee.

Do you have testimony to offer?

So far the only thing that I would like to recommend, I agree with the farrier very much. We happen to have a farm where 18 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 we have horses, and it is mandatory for each horse to have a soft place so that they can put their feet rather than -- a mat would be an excellent suggestion. Pertaining to -- you want to hear about the heat, or can we come back after you hear some more testimony?

Do you have an opinion about the Bill as written?

I think some of the things are very good. I think some could be improved upon, including -- one would be the temperature for the horses. I would like to see that lowered to 89 degrees when the horses are off the streets. I think that this is the only city besides San Antonio where the horses come in when it is 89. San Antonio like ours is over 90, and we're the only ones. I think it makes us somewhat of a dinosaur in having that provision. I think it should be below 90, and probably 89 would be a good maybe a compromise for the carriage horse trade as well. One of the other suggestions that I would make is that there should be no passenger in 19 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 front seat with the with the driver because I think that's somewhat of a detriment and a danger.

Any questions for these witnesses?

How do they provide water for the houses if they're out six to eight hours.

The water is provided on the street at the National Park Service property on Chestnut Street. There is a hydrant that does contains portable water. And as I understand it, they are allowed by the Park Service to fill buckets for the horses.

Is that it? Thank you very much. Thank you for your testimony.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Hendricks, please. Good afternoon. Identify yourself for record and proceed. ERIK HENDRICKS: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Erik Hendricks. I'm the Executive Director of the Pennsylvania SPCA. 20 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 As you probably know, the Pennsylvania SPCA is a nonprofit organization working to protect animals throughout the State of Pennsylvania, but we also in Philadelphia have a contract with the City to perform animal control services for the City. And among those services is the monitoring of the situation in the Independence Hall area with carriage horses as well as the hacking stables that are located in other parts of Philadelphia. Unfortunately, the focus all seems to be on the carriage horse trade, but the ordinance in Philadelphia pertains to all working horses throughout the City. And for that reason, I think we should address one of the major problems, and that is which temperature are we using to enforce the law. I suggest that the ordinance used as its guide the temperature taken at the Philadelphia Airport by the US Weather Service because that's an official temperature kept on record and can be used in court at a subsequent date if it should be necessary. That temperature is also the one used by all radio and television stations when giving the temperature at the time, so it's easily disseminated 21 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 throughout the City by those channels. So not only would the carriage horses in the historic section be aware what the temperature was, but so would all the hacking stables located in northwest and northeast.

Describe what a hacking stable is.

A hacking stable is just a stable that rents horses by the hour for riding, not for the carriage pulling but for actual riding.

How many of those do you estimate in Philadelphia?

It would be an estimate. I would say approximately in the City. 15

These are not places 16 where people board their own horses but where people 17 rent? 18

Usually they're 19 combinations. Usually it's a stable that has 20 private horses that are not rented out, but they also have their own supply of horses that can be rented by the hour.

What is the temperature that the SPCA is suggesting to use?

Well, we are actually 22 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 suggesting the use of a temperature humidity index where 94 would be the maximum that a horse could work under. If the THI hits 95, then that horse would have to return to its stable. Now, and I also mentioned in my written testimony that if you would want to consider the straight temperature reading for simplicity sake, that it should be 89 as a maximum. At 90 degrees horses would then come off the street. The first testimony mentioned a wind chill factor, the other end of the spectrum. I don't think wind chill is something we should really use because unlike a THI which tends to vary slowly overtime -- THI is the temperature humidity index -- the wind child factor varies second by second. It's very difficult to really use as a legal gauge in any kind of prosecution. So if you're considering, and I wish you would, a low temperature at which a horse may be blanketed or must be blanketed then I think you can use a straight temperature reading for that parameter.

What is that?

At 32.

Regardless of wind chill? 23 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Yes, without taking wind chill into effect.

Now, you're not a meteorologist, but let me ask you your opinion.

No, but I play one on TV.

I play a Councilman on television, too. The temperature at the airport is, from my experience, generally lower than the temperature in Center City.

I've been studying that over the years because of this issue, and there is not a constant difference one way or the other. Sometimes it's higher, sometimes it's lower. But the fact is if it's hot at the airport, it's going to be hot in Philadelphia. So it doesn't really matter if it's a degree or two different. The fact is, it's very hot. If it's very hot there, it's very hot in the City.

The issue of, for example, if we say 89 or 90 degrees Fahrenheit where the horse needs to come off the street, is it equally dangerous for the horse to be returned to 24 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the stable in that heat as opposed to being stopped, parked, and under a tree.

Ideally, there would be a place in the area where the horse could seek shade and actually would not have to be driven back a mile or two to the stable, because pulling a wagon is work in itself even though it's not loaded.

And you're not sheltered from the heat.

And you're not under shelter while your pulling it. So the ideal situation would be to have some kind of open-sided stable or barn, but I don't think you're going to be able to provide that downtown.

No, I don't think the Park Service will let us build a barn. But the question is would it make more sense to require the horse to not pull, to be parked, to be under shade, as oppose to dragging it back, having it drag the cart back to the stable that may be two miles away?

I think as an option that should be allowed. I don't know if you can say you must stand here for the next three hours. I 25 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 wouldn't say you mandate it, but I would say as a option to taking the horse back to the stable then that would be a viable option and I don't think that would hurt the horse at all.

My concern is that the requirement that is here that "A horse being worked when such conditions develop shall be immediately returned to the stable by the most direct route," to me, mandates them to continue to pull that load through city streets to their final place of destination back at the stable. From my perspective, if it hits 90 degrees, 89 degrees or whatever the number is, if they're prohibited from carrying fare, required to park in a shaded area and provided water, to me that seems more humane than requiring it to go back to the stable.

That's exactly right. I think the only reason they put that in the ordinance 20 originally was because they didn't really figure there would be any place for them to actually park for an extended period. However, what you're saying is a much better solution to the problem from the horse's standpoint. One other thing I would like to mention, COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the hours of work, I think the six-hour workday is a little short. I think a horse is capable of working longer than that. I suggest that you consider an eight-hour pulling day. And when I say a pulling day, I mean actually pulling a wagon that has, not just the driver, but the driver plus a paying customer. The law already calls for minute rest 9 periods every hour. So if you make a maximum 10 eight-hour pulling day, that will still mean the 11 horse can be out on the street for up to ten hours 12 in one day, but I would call ten hours on the street 13 as the maximum that a horse can be used each day. 14

Whether or not the 15 horse is pulling, ten hours maximum?

That's right. Ten hours maximum even though it was never hired all day long. You couldn't leave the house out there waiting to get eight hours of paying customers. You must remove the horse from the streets even though it didn't pay its way that day.

Getting back to the issue of whether or not to require the horse to return to stable, it would seem to me that if you follow your instruction or suggestion that we do a ten-hour 27 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 total day, eight-hour pulling, ten hours on the street, it would seem reasonable, maybe a reasonable solution to this whole issue that as opposed to requiring to return, that the operator is prohibited from taking fare, must park the horse in a shaded area, providing him or her with water until the temperature changes. For example, if the heat index or the temperature reaches 89 or 90 degrees at 5 o'clock, say. That's necessarily likely, but then by 7 or 8 o'clock it's beginning to cool off, the owner of the horse would not have to have taken it two miles or so back to where it's stabled. It just seems more humane for the horse.

You are absolutely right. And the only reason that it isn't done that way is that there isn't a place there now to allow them to really stand in the shade for hour after hour.

From my experience, from where I've seen the majority of these operations operating from is the area across the street from Independence Hall and along Sixth Street there, and there is a wealth shade trees and availability for 28 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 water at that location.

Water they can get no 4 problem. The shade moves depending on the time of the day and it's not perfect shade because it's only shaded from a slanted sun. In the summer you get pretty direct sunlight coming straight down and it's hard to get under a tree down there. You would almost have to provide a man-made structure. And I'm not sure if that could be built big enough for the number of carriages that are down there.

I don't have to cover the carriage, all I need to do is cover the horse.

Well, that would mean if you wanted to do that taking the horses out of their straps, and that's a considerable feat to do that and put them back in again.

We're trying to juggle the --

Ideally, of course, it would be great if all the stables happened to be right downtown within a short haul, but they're not.

Very expensive stables.

That's true.

Councilmember Rizzo. 29 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Mr. Hendricks, let's talk about an 80-degree day, beautiful day. I'm more concerned and I understand that -- maybe I shouldn't be as concerned as I am. I'm talking about a routine day and there's a horse with an obvious, not injury, but condition, a harness sore that's obvious, it's raw. Who is going to be the oversight --

That comes under state law, which we are here to enforce.

My point being, on a Wednesday evening there's a horse that has got an injury where it's obvious that it's bandaged or whatever, whose out there? Again, we want the police to do a lot of things.

If we aren't there, we're on call. We're not going to be standing there all the time, but the Pennsylvania SPCA agents will go down there.

And your authority to do what?

And under the state authority that we have, because this is covered by state law, not by the city ordinance, under the 30 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 state law we can order the horse out of service if it has any kind of saddle sore or any kind sore that would be worsened by work. We can order that horse to go back to the stable.

Are there any state laws on the books now that would apply to why we're here today.

Actually, one of the things we're talking about is the hours of work of the horses. We're trying to make it so that the City is more lenient on work horses than the State. The state law has a 96 hour a week limitation. It's a little tougher on the horses than what we want to see. But in terms of lameness, which is what you're talking about, or some kind of sore on the animal, the state law covers that very well. So there is really no need for an ordinance in Philadelphia to go over that ground because the State has it covered.

Do you see anything in this legislation that's is a duplication.

Well, not a duplication, but I'm trying to get the City to lower the hours of labor. That's not a duplication, that's just a 31 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 tougher part of it. This ordinance does not cover the lameness so much, although in general there is -- I forget exactly how it's worded in existing ordinance, but it has to do with dangerous conditions. And I always took that as being condition of the roads like ice or something along that line. But the state code does cover the kind of physical injuries that you're concerned about.

So you're pretty much depending on the public to call the SPCA to report an animal that appears to be unfit for duty, and you're telling me that the SPCA is prepared to have a timely response to that type of a phone call.

Right. But we also -- because of the nature of this problem, we also make routine inspections. So it's a combination of both. But we can't have an agent sitting down there by Independence Hall all day long just checking every horse that goes by. But we do make regular inspections of the carriage horses especially during the warm weather and when also respond quickly to any called-in complaints.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 32 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

You're very welcome. Before Councilmember DiCicco asks a question, is it in the interest of the animal owner of the horse owner to work a lame or not to care for its sores? I mean, to me, it would seem to me if that's your method of making a living as if you were a driver of the truck, you're not going to let the truck break down, you're going to continue to maintain the truck because if you don't maintain the horse or the truck, you're not going to make a living. You're not a carriage operator so --

Unfortunately, the cheapest cost you have in this whole thing is the horse. It is almost -- they almost give them away at auction. It's very sad. Now, the one nice thing I've seen over the years is that the horses being used to pull the carriages here have gotten bigger and stronger in general over the years. When they first started the carriage trade here about 20 years or so ago, you saw a lot of aged, skinny horses being used, and that was a bad situation. They did realize that for their own public relations and good 33 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 business that the public would appreciate not being hauled by some poor, old horse. It made the public feel pretty bad. So most of the public feels pretty good if they get pulled around big strong horse. They don't feel like it's any kind of burden on the horse.

Councilmember DiCicco.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Hendricks, following up on Councilman Rizzo's questioning, in your experience with the SPCA, have you uncovered any problems when you do inspections of the carriage horses that are in the stables? In general, did you find any abuse.

I wouldn't call it abuse. Neglect is what we see.

What kind of neglect?

As Mr. Rizzo mentioned, often you'll see sores. And if you find sores, you have to order the horse out of service because it will only get worse if it's continued to be used. We also see conditions in stables that aren't necessarily the best for the horse. They 34 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 either have slippery floors or they're not kept clean. Sometimes they have too low timbers coming across where a horse could rear up and hit its head. These are the reasons that we want to have stable inspections put in as a regular part of the law. We make them on routine -- we make stable inspections routine, but the law is not specific in how often they must be inspected.

During your inspection, how often is routine?

That could be once every couple of months routinely by us. That various depending on the time of year, and sometimes it varies depending on the individual involved. Some stable owners have a history of providing better care than others.

In your experience, what is the normal number of times that an inspection is made?

I would say every two or three months we will be in every stable.

So presently you're inspecting them four times a year.

More than any law, even 35 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 this law would call for.

Because it's being suggested that the inspections occur twice a year.

That's the minimum.

Technically, you're actually doing double than what is being requested.

We're doing that because we're the humane society, not because we're a city agency.

I appreciate that. I'm concerned because this is part of the correspondence that I've been receiving, and some of the suggestions are inconsistent. And one of the most consistent suggestion is that the stables be inspected twice a year, so I wanted to get on the record that you're presently inspecting them four times a year.

But --

Not because you're required by law.

Exactly. I think they should be required to be inspected. That's a little different when it's required. If it's mandated by 36 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 law, it makes it somewhat different in my eyes. But the main thing --

It could still reduce the number of inspections down to two as opposed to four, even though it's required.

It could. Potentially it might, but I doubt that it would in our case. The main concept, the main reason I'm here today is to talk about the high temperature maximum for working. I think that's something where Philadelphia has something of an embarrassment in the current situation.

Two other questions. Do you also recommend the same criteria of ten-hour workday for the horse if the temperature is 32 degrees? I mean, we talked about the high number; what about the low number?

The low number, the horse will do fine at that temperature. Ice is the main problem. But I also recommended that they get blanketed if it hits --

Blanketed at 32.

Yes.

The number of 37 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 hours, though?

The hours could be the same.

Just trying to get my information correct as to whether it would be a difference in the hours as it would be in the temperature.

No, I would keep the hours the same.

Do you have any knowledge of how the City of New York handles their carriage business?

I haven't read their regulations in some years, but I can tell you why they have such strict regulations: Because on the same day in August about 15 or maybe 17 years ago, two horses in the Central Park area dropped dead from the heat, and there was such an outcry by the citizens of New York that City Council of New York immediately rushed through very restrictive regulations, and much more restrictive than we have down here, very extensive.

How does their legislation compare to this legislation in terms of 38 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the temperature and the hours horses will be permitted to work?

I can't remember the details now, but it's lower. It's around 90, but I don't remember the exact number. And I don't remember the hours, but the hours are lower, too.

I just need to interrupt you for one second.

I would like to make a couple of announcements. After the committee on the licenses and inspections finishes with its hearing and the public meeting, assuming the Chair has a public meeting, we will then have a hearing by the Appropriations Committee. Councilmember Krajewski is here. It should be a brief hearing and then the Committee on Public Property will convene. And then after that Committee, we will go back to the Council Committee of the Whole. So if there are people here on bills that are on any of those committees, we ask you to be patient. We appreciate your willingness to cooperate with us. This will be a very busy day. We really intend to stay here until we get our business done. 39 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. President. Councilmember DiCicco.

The other question: Do you know if New York provides a place of shelter during the day? And I see heads shaking no. I was out there a few months ago, and I didn't see that.

I've never seen any up there. The Plaza Hotel shadow.

Councilmember Rizzo.

Mr. Hendricks, in reference to the cold, the cold whether, on a 35-degree day with 8 to 10 to 12 mile an hour wind gusts, I can't understand why, especially a standing house, the operator wouldn't throw a blanket over the horse. Now, to say 32 degrees, don't you think it should be an automatic if the horse is standing that he be blanketed or she be blanketed rather than -- when they're on their way, they're in pretty good shape. But when they're standing, I can't understand why we would want to have heat index for warmer weather when cold weather is certainly a factor also. They're certainly more accepting to 40 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 cold weather but --

I think you're not going to find as much of a problem in the cold weather here because, Number 1, you're going to have fewer horses out.

Who's taking rides in the blizzard?

Right. And Number 2, many of the people are already doing this. It's just a matter of whether you want to mandate it or not. If it's mandated, then everybody would have to do it. And I would think that we don't get complaints in the winter time on carriage horses like we do in the summer.

Because they don't sweat in the winter.

The public isn't screaming saying, "That poor horse is not blanketed." We're not getting those complaints.

My last question is in reference to the state law or SPCA oversight, when it goes to hack horses or carriage horses, is there any criteria, any regulations on the way the horses are fed? 41 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 There are some horses that never see oats in their whole life or corn. What do you do to assure that these horses are being fed properly?

Well, what you have to do is -- I can't remember the name of the scale at the moment, but someone behind me might remember. There is a way of testing a horse, measuring a horse to see whether it is technically thin or not. Generally, you can eyeball a horse and tell pretty well whether it's a good flesh or not, but there's actually a scale that can be used. But the state law does go into that, and so if your horse is thin because you're not feeding it or you're not seeing a veterinarian to take care of whatever is causing it to be then, worms or something, then you are in violation of that state law. So once again, the state law covers that situation. The physical condition of the horse in Philadelphia need not be addressed as much because the state law covers that area.

Thank you.

Thank you. AUDIENCE MEMBER: May I ask a question?

No, it's not permitted. 42 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 It's not the process we follow, and I have a list of witnesses that I'm going through. This is not a debate, it's a public hearing. You don't have the privilege of asking that point of information, I'm sad to say.

Presently, under the present conditions in Philadelphia, if the temperature reaches 94 or above, what happens?

Well, 94 you're okay.

Or above?

Above, technically you have to take the carriage back to the stable by the most direct route.

Is that being done?

Generally it is, but sometimes we have to go down and remind them. See, one of the problems now is that there's no 20 temperature standard in the law, so that's a problem because people will hear the temperature on the radio, call us up and say, "It's 95 degrees out." We'll go down to the Independence Square area and then the KYW thermometer on the building will say something else. That's why I say it's very 43 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 important to have that temperature standard at the airport so that everybody's talking about the same thing. But if we get down there and we found that the carriage horses are on the street, the temperature gauge on the KYW building says something above 94, then we just say, "You know the rules, get out of here." We don't ticket them because they don't refuse to go. But unfortunately, sometimes and with some people it requires us to have to tell them. They're going to wait until they're told. Some of them don't wait. Last year we had a few days of these conditions, and under most circumstances I found out from our agents that the carriages were generally leaving willfully before we even got there.

Who has decided that 94, 90, whatever the temperature that we come to agree on, is the correct temperature? Is there a medical documentation that purports any of this?

No, not at all. This is strictly a humane number. It's up to whoever the powers are and whatever municipality to pick this 44 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 number. There is no science that can be applied. As a matter of fact, it would be difficult because every horse is a little different.

I was getting to that. For me as a human being when the temperature falls below 60, I'm cold. Some people are still sweating. How do you make that decision? And if we're just going to do an arbitrary -- whether it's 89 or 94, it really is an arbitrary number.

Exactly. It's a humane index. You know, common sense tells you that as the temperature goes up, mammals can moderate their temperature, internal temperature, by sweat and we can accommodate a certain temperature rise, but it becomes a burden on your system.

Not to interrupt you, but I've seen horses in cold weather that had blankets on them sweating. One would think that as humans we would know when to come in out of the cold, but that's not always the case either. What's cold for me may be not be cold for Councilman Kenney or you.

One of the differences we have here is that the horses have no voice in 45 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 this work situation, whereas a human can say, "Too hot for me to work, I'm going to go sit in the chair and have a lemonade." A horse doesn't have that luxury. So he's out there because he's made to be out there.

But there may be some horses that can't take it past 89. So again, I don't know -- none of us have the answer then.

There is no perfect number. All we're trying to do is find a number that will generally apply and that will not be so ridiculous that horses would never be out there. If you set the number, say, between 50 degrees and 60 degrees, that's the only time horses can work, we pretty much agree that that's nonsensical. But we know at some higher level it becomes uncomfortable for mammals to do the work that they might otherwise do.

I can agree on just about everything. I think the hours, I think we can find a place where it can accommodate everyone, including the carriage industry. I think the inspections are important. I'm just concerned about me or any of us making a decision on a 46 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 temperature that we really have no medical basis to make the decision on.

Well, you did it once before.

And we're back. For some people -- and I respect everyone's opinion, for some people that's too high. But is it? I don't know.

There isn't a perfect answer. And you know from all your other work you're never going to make everybody in Philadelphia happy with anything you do. So saying 89, 90, 91, you know, you're always going to get segment that will say that's still too high.

We have a segment of people who don't want them used for that purpose at all.

That's true. That's why it will always be too high. So you cannot please everybody. You should know that very well. This is strictly a humane index we're using, and it all depends on how you want to perceive the horses in Philadelphia. Whether they're beasts that unfortunately are being used by us and that's all 47 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 they're good for, or whether you think they have some rights to be here on this earth and they should be cared for properly. I think if you look at it that way, you will consider lowering the existing number.

Thank you for your testimony.

Thank you for the opportunity.

You're welcome. Ms. Cheever and Mr. Hawkins, please. I need you to come up together. You can give separate testimony, I just want to fill the chairs up in the interest of time. Please identify yourself for the record.

Actually, it's Dr. Holly Cheever. I'm a practicing veterinarian. Should I continue?

Please.

I'm grateful that you're taking me ahead of my possible order. I have to be back, being mommy, by 5:30 in Albany to four children, so I'm grateful for your letting me go ahead. 48 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

No problem.

Let me just briefly give you my credentials so you know why I am being thrust upon you in this hearing. I am a practicing veterinarian. I graduated from Harvard University undergrad and Cornell's Veterinary College in 1980 with a class rank of No. 1. I have been a private practitioner including equine medicine for years. My 11 experience with equines goes all the way back to 12 childhood, and it does include working with draft 13 horses and carriage horses both training and driving 14 and parade work and primarily in field work plowing. 15 So I am familiar with the medicine of the heavy 16 equines, the big draft horses. 17 I have received many awards for work in 18 anti-cruelty animal abuse prosection from the ASPCA, from the Humane Society of the United States, from the New York State Troopers and from many other state and local animal advocacy groups. And finally I am Good Housekeeping Magazine's veterinary columnist writing a regular column three to five times a year under the name of DGH Vet. 49 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Specifically, though, my expertise in this area of urban carriage horse regulation, I really feel is second to no one's. At this point in the last decade I have advised two states, namely, Massachusetts and Florida, in providing statewide legislation for carriage horse regulations, and I have worked with over cities and municipalities 9 on providing protective regulation, including New 10 York City, and I can answer all those questions you 11 were asking our previous witness, New York City 12 Washington, Boston, Atlanta, New Orleans, Reno, 13 Kansas City, et cetera. 14 My position on urban carriage horses is 15 really that it, first of all, should never be seen as an animal rights issue as I think was being hinted earlier because it does fall very clearly within the realm of animal welfare, which we all agree we should be supporting. Unfortunately, there's a very fundamental incompatibility between equines used on the streets sharing space with motor vehicle-ized traffic, and the dangers and health hazards are fairly obvious, even to a non-veterinarian. I am glad to hear that Philadelphia's 50 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 horses have improved in quality, but I know from personal conversations with people who have witnessed some of the horses from perhaps the less well-run stables that some of the horses do remain old and somewhat under-conditioned. And one thing you need to remember is the source of these horses. These are not someone's price draft horses people do not put their price draft horses on urban city streets in carriage trades for the tourists. Many of them come from the New Holland sales. Their only prerequisite is that they already be broken to harness. That means that they've either come from Amish farm country or standard bread tracks or previous farm use in some capacity. Many times by the time they go to the New Holland sale, they're pretty well used up and they're not in the best conditions by the time they hit the streets. Therefore, all of your legislation have to be drafted to protect those individuals who are not in optimal condition, because many of them are not. In terms of what is specifically hazardous for the horses, Mr. Ordell did mention the problems with keeping them sound on city streets. They never evolved to handle the hard concussive 51 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 pavements and the constant pounding that a ten-hour work day would give them, even with the best of farrier care, which in my experience around the country is usually not the case. They have possibly adequate farrier care, but not always adequate. And draft horses are notoriously hard to keep well shod because of the shape of their hoof and their heavy weight and, again, the heavy, hard concussive street surfaces. There's the obvious danger to these horses in traffic. These animals evolved as herbivores.

They're prey, and what that means is that when there's something scary that happens, whether it's a car crashing into the carriage or some drunk heaving a beer bottle at their hiney, they bolt, they spook, and that has disastrous consequences which you've seen around the country. There was a very nasty death in Boston last year because of a car backing into a carriage, and the horse broke loose for two blocks, rammed himself into something that slit his chest open and bled slowly to death in three hours without the benefit of euthanasia, and no being on this planet should ever die like that. 52 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Pollution hazards, of course, are obvious. These animals at this point are out there ten hours a day. The more aged and dispirited ones have their nostrils really right down by the tail pipes, and they're sucking down pollution much more than anyone, except for the possibility of the homeless individuals who were testifying earlier. But no other resident of Philadelphia is breathing in that degree of traffic fumes. And I have in the materials that Mr. Hawkins will be giving you a report of a study done in New York City a few years ago indicating that their lung pathology was pretty horrendous simply because their exposure to the traffic fumes. The big thing, though, is heat stress. And for that reason, I will go right into the specific recommendation that I would hope would be included in the proposed regulation. One thing you need to understand is that horses have a much tougher time dissipating heat load that comes up with exercise than a human does. We have a very low mass to weight ratio. Horses have a high one. It's very hard for them with that big massive body to dissipate the heat that they accumulate in working 53 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 conditions with high ambient temperatures, and particularly with humidity. And I know this is going to be a lot of hashing out and backing and forthing as to what should be at final high-end temperature. In New York the one that was finally agreed upon was a temperature of 89 degrees, but a different reading of temperature humidity index than the one referred to here which took humidity into account. And I really pray that you do consider including humidity, the reason being that when you have a high humidity, the horse can no longer cool himself by evaporation from sweating. That's how you and I cool ourselves, that's how the horse cools himself or herself. And with high humidity in the air, there's no evaporation and that's when you get the real heavy danger from heat prostration, which New York has seen many times, as has Atlanta, as has Boston. So as I said, in New York it's 89 degrees Fahrenheit temperature including a humidity factor, which if you were to add degrees Fahrenheit with the relative humidity, if it comes to a higher value than 140, the horses are supposed to leave. Now, you're using a different index here which I'm very 54 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 comfortable with and that is 94 temperature humidity index, which does again factor in humidity. But I beg you as a horse lover and as a compassionate human as well as a veterinarian that humidity really does need to be factored in there. Otherwise, you do have a chance of some prostration deaths, which are never very pretty to see. I have to disagree, with all respect, with Mr. Hendricks about the fact that there is no 11 documentation as to what is safe or what is not safe. I won't burden you with it, but I have a file 13 on equine physiology, exercise physiology, this heavy and this fat on what is considered safe.

And you may be aware that when the horses were performing in Atlanta last summer or two summers ago, whenever it was, for the Olympic games, there was a big scandal for two years before where they tried to go through and document what would be safe for the competitor horses so they would not be endangering these multimillion dollar animals because of high ambient temperatures, high humidity, and a punishing course. Obviously, going across an eventing course in steeple chasing is more of an exercise demand than pulling a carriage, but it's 55 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 only for a few minutes as opposed to the six- or eight- or ten-hour day that the carriage horses are experiencing. And the other thing, which I realize adds a little more of a glitch and an irritation in something you have to wrestle out, but in New York they finally agreed to take the temperature, not by what they say on the US Weather Borough reports, but rather by thermometer held at the horses elbow level. And I know this may seem picky to you, but if you will just bear with me. Cornell's Horticulture Department several years ago did a study in Central Park, New York City to find out why their newly planted trees were all dying off. And they found out that it was heat stress. And heat stress is a factor because in New York City, for instance, when the US Weather Bureau says it's X degrees, they're taking that temperature from a thermometer 60 feet above the ground in Central Park. The problem is the horses aren't operating 60 feet above the ground in Central Park, they're down on the street. By the Horticulture Department's study, they came up with the fact that the pavement temperature could be 45 degrees higher. So when it 56 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 was 86 degrees according Weather Bureau as you turn on your radio to take a shower in the morning, it could be 131 where the horses are standing. And that's why heat prostration becomes so much of a increased danger when you're dealing with an urban environment. We're not talking plow horses, we're not talking plowing the earth on Georgia's red field or something; we're talking about reflective heat of off asphalt, and that's a very different matter. So I do hope you will include humidity. I do hope that you will settle on that final 94 as the maximum, the absolute humane maximum including humidity for keeping these animals off the street. One of you asked does New York have a shelter for these horses to go to. No, they don't. And the reason they send them back to the stables which is just as a pain in the hiney for them as it would be Philadelphia operators is that if you don't send them back, as the inspector turns the corner, the horse is back working again. You know, you brought up earlier how are you going to enforce all of this, who has the time and money and personnel to park someone by each carriage horse and make sure that they are on the 57 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 street and off the street when they should be. If they're sent back to the stable, you don't have to worry about it. They're out of danger zone. Now, it would be just lovely if Philadelphia could find a space to build a long cooling shed with wonderful ventilation, lots of fans, lots of those fine mistrals that they used for the three-day eventing horses, the multimillion dollar syndicated horses, but I'm just guessing here, you will not be able to do that in downtown Philadelphia. In short of that, you do need to get them into an environment where they can't be put right back on the street when the inspector has turned the corner. So again, in terms of the high-end temperature, please consider including humidity or you will have horse deaths, if you haven't already. And please consider taking the temperature somewhere which is relevant for the horses and not where the US Weather Bureau is taking it.

Again, if you want 20 pounds of documentation on exercise physiology, I can't even barely get through it, but I'll be glad to give it to you. As far as the low-end scale, we're 58 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 talking about whether, we think 32 degrees should include wind chill factor or not, we're talking about whether the present degrees is sufficiently 5 protective. No way. It's simply not. These are 6 animals who exercise, stand still; exercise, stand 7 still. Any of you who jog in the wintertime know 8 that that is a recipe for disaster, for leg cramps, 9 for draining, lowering your immune system's ability 10 to fight off disease. It's an enormous stress. You 11 would think that a humane operator would have the 12 common sense to throw a blanket on his or her horse, 13 draw your own conclusions, but most of them don't. 14 Many of them don't, and therefore, I think it is 15 important to mandate it. My own preference would be 16 to include the wind chill factor because, I remind 17 you, we are trying to devise legislation to protect 18 those who may not be in optimal condition. Not 19 every carriage horse in the City is in optimal 20 condition. And if you're thinking of a horse that maybe is 50 to a hundred pounds under weight, that degree of wind chill being factored in could make an enormous difference in whether it is receiving humane treatment or is merely experiencing something that is survivable but not humane. 59 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Also, I don't know about Philadelphia, but one of you was saying something about you don't think there's a lot carriage horse use in the wintertime. I don't know about Philadelphia, but certainly Kansas City, Atlanta, Boston, New York, they have very high seasonal use between Thanksgiving and New Year's. That's the big time when tourists come flooding into the cities in the winter months. It's a big seasonal time, and for many of the other urban North American northeastern cities that I've advised for, that is a problem time where there is a high carriage horse demand. So we do need to be very focused on that low-end temperature to protect them. In terms of the work hours, the number of work hours, again, I respectfully disagree with Hendrick's whom I've supported in just about everything else, but I would prefer to see six hours or the maximum eight because we're not just talking about the amount that the horse works, we're talking about in the summertime this animal cooking on the street or freezing in the wintertime on the streets, and that's an awful long prolonged environmental exposure to challenging extremes of climate if you 60 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 have a ten-hour day. And again, we're not necessarily talking about horses in the peak of condition. So I would respectfully suggest that you drop down to six or eight which is more in accord with the other humane laws drafted in cities across the country. I don't know of any cities offhand anymore that have had any regulation oversight that still permits ten hours, and I don't think it would look very good for Philadelphia to be way out on the end there. In terms of stable inspections, my feeling would be two times minimum annually, and I agree with Mr. Hendricks it should be mandated, not something that just SPCA does because it's an effective and concerned and compassionate force that's trying to make sure that the lives of these horses is as humane as possible. And what they need to be inspecting for, I would hope that there was some horse expert who would go with them. I know that in New York City, I was hired by the ASPCA because their cruelty investigators were small animal experts and really didn't know what to look for. You're looking for the presence of 61 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 constant access to water, not just being turned loose to drink out of a joint tub at the end of the stalls.

You're looking for constant access to traced mineralized salt, not just the white salt block, but the red salt block which supplies a lot of those electolytes lost with sweating. And of course, you're looking for the thick bedding because as we've been talking, both Mr. Odell and myself, these street are very, very tough and very unnatural for a horse to survive on, especially with the kind of length of day. The rubber matting in stall for a horse working six to eight hours a day to me would seem like a very reasonable way to try to protect and cushion these animals from this unnaturally hard concussive work that they do. And even though this is somewhat out of the realm of veterinary experience, apparently at this point it's permitted to have a passenger up on the driver's box. Well, this is common sense no-brainer. There couldn't be anything more dangerous. You are much more in danger up in that box than you are inside the main body. It's dangerous enough in there without seat belts and without any protection. I just would not think the 62 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 City would want to take on extra liability. It also sometimes impedes the driver's ability to control a horse when there's a panic moment. And I just think that you don't want to take on that extra risk of having a passenger up there where the chance of danger is much greater. I think that's pretty much -- oh, one thing I believe you were asking in terms of does it make sense to drive a lame horse. Of course it doesn't make sense, but as Mr. Hendricks is saying, the cheapest part of the operation is the horse. They're eminently replaceable. And what the carriage horse operators in New York and Boston would say when I would point out that their horse was three-legged lame, they'd say, "Yeah, well this horse don't make me no money if he's sitting in the stable," so their feeling is that they may be lame, but I can make money with him the streets. I'm not saying that all carriage drivers are like that, but there certainly has been at least one or two of those in every city that I've worked with. So if you have any questions, I'd be very happy to answer them at this time.

Thank you. 63 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Councilmember DiCicco.

Thank you for your testimony. Do you see any reason to regulate -- is there any difference the way we should be regulating the carriage industry as opposed to the hacking stables?

It's a very different life. I don't know enough about your regulations for the hacking industry to comment. But I can tell you that work under saddle is a different matter from work in a harness, especially when you have some of these very ancient stables that I know your carriage horses live in where they're tied stalls, standing straight stalls. Think about it for a minute. You're pulling a carriage, you're 180 degrees a head between the shafts, you can't move, you can't even turn around to scratch your hiney. Then you go home to the stall, you're lined 180 degrees, you can't even turn around there. And I think some of these older stables do not have the paddocks, do not give any chance for turnout which is essential for the physiologic well-being of any horse. 64 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Whereas with a saddle horse, that animal has much more opportunity to flex, to move, to bend. It's not as confining, it's not as restrictive and it's not as hard work.

Is there any recommendation -- I noticed in your written testimony appropriate winter weight blankets. Is there a material that you would recommend?

Sure, I can comment on that. Horse blankets, like in any other fashion, comes in a lot of different types. You can have your basic fly sheet which is a summer sheet, keeps bugs off. You can have your rain repellant sheet which keeps the rain off. What you're looking for here is something with a repellant shell like a nylon shell with some kind of a woven, either a flannel or a wool kind of inner lining, like a nice camping blanket that a human might use. And these permit the blanket and the horse to stay dry when the sleet is blowing on them because they have that repellant outer shell, but it also provides warmth. Now, if you have a horse that seems to be heated when he's just come in from his walk, his work, you put the blanket on him and if he seems to be twitchy 65 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 and sweaty, you can always roll half of it back and expose part of the forequarters but leave the hindquarters covered and adjust it is a needed. But it certainly should be there to protect the animals.

Is there a specific model or type?

I'm sure you have horse people in Philadelphia, it's such a horsy area, that can give you 500 different types and brands that would be acceptable.

Thank you. Do you happen to know what the hours that the carriage horses work in New York.

I believe at this point it's eight. The protective law --

Including the time to and from the stable or is that eight hours --

I think that's eight hours on their working shift. The protective law that was passed in '89 was appealed in '94 because of New York's intricacies of their political system despite unanimous opposition to weakening the protective laws, so at this point I'm not exactly sure. But 66 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the last I knew, it was an eight-hour work shift.

Thank you. No 4 further questions.

Councilmember Rizzo.

Doctor, in the area of passengers, I've noticed that many of our carriage operators have sometimes two employees both capable of handling the horse. Don't you think we should be careful in not -- we have to be very clear that that second passenger shouldn't be a person that's going for the ride, but we should not limit people that might be employees of the carriage operator?

Yes. My understanding, and perhaps I was wrong, was that the second person on the driver's box was actually a tourist, a passenger. They should never be up there. But if you have an apprentice, a trainee, or an assistant, then, of course, I have no problem with that.

We have to very careful that we don't rule out a second person.

In fact, in many cases, a second person is a good idea, for instance, in the case of watering. If you have to let go of your 67 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 horse's head to go and turn on that hydrant, that gives a split second where the horse could bolt with disastrous consequences, and that's happened a lot.

I just wanted to make sure we're not eliminating something that could be better for the operator.

I completely agree.

Thank you, Doctor.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

Thank you for the opportunity. Mr. Hawkins will present you with my material. (Applause.)

Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.

Good afternoon. I'm William Hawkins. I live in Center City on Washington Square. I'm not an expert on horses, but I've been around horses all my life, both in Europe and over here. I've been in Center City for 23 years. Where I live on Washington Square, I get to 24 see an awful lot of the carriage horse industry. 25 And our hope is that perhaps we can make some 68 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 headway with changes. The current ordinance that is before you we feel is unacceptable because it doesn't address the humane issues, many of which you've heard this afternoon. The 92 degrees that is recommended is just insufficient, and you've heard that through testimony so far. I would like to say that we have no 10 financial interest in what's happening here. Our motivation is one purely of humane treatment of the horses. Philadelphia's always been a city of firsts, but unfortunately we've got an awful long way to go when it comes to the carriage horse industry. We have one of the highest temperature thresholds in the country. It used to be that we were one of the top three, now I think Kansas City has cleaned up its act and now it's just San Antonio and Philadelphia. And the heat and humidity combined create a very, very -- pressure and stress on the carriage horses, as you've heard. The asphalt temperature can be as high as 120, 130 if it's 94 degrees. So we feel there are very, very strong reasons why the temperature should be 69 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 lowered. We also have the highest number of hours work. I believe New York is eight. If not, then New York and Philadelphia will probably be the only cities with that ten-hour threshold. Most of the cities that I've looked at ordinances from are between six and eight, the average being about eight. So we are clearly way ahead in both the temperature and the hours worked. As far as the number of passengers, Dr. Cheever did mention very clearly that sometimes there are tourist who do ride as passengers, and we've seen that many times. I have myself witnessed the driver of a carriage handing the reigns to a little child sitting next to him or her while she turns around and takes a photograph of the people in the carriage behind. I've seen that on Walnut Street between on Fifth and Sixth on more than one occasion because that's the nice area. That's an accident waiting to happen. The stable visits, we currently have, I think, one visit a year is in the current ordinance, not in the recommended changes, but in the current ordinance or regulations. One visit won't do it. 70 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 You've heard that a mandatory twice a year would be much more acceptable. The SPCA who will go in unannounced at different times, that's fine, but there has to be that mandated number. Otherwise, there really is no way to fix on a benchmark. And most cities do have twice a year. Some do it three times a year and four times a year. So once again we're clearly way at the other end of the spectrum. A year ago, I had a chance to visit the stables in Philadelphia, and I would like to make it very clear that one of the stables that I visited was a very well kept, very well maintained, the horses looked in excellent condition, the stalls were large and everything seemed to be very much in order. Two other stables I went to, it was like going back to the Charles Dickens era. The places are very old, very dark, they didn't seem to have the ventilation that the other place certainly had, they certainly did not have a paddock where the horses got exercised. That's a very critical issue here. You've got horses that are very, very sensitive creatures. They work, they go back to stall, a tiny stall, and that's it. They're constantly tied up or they can't move.

At least 71 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 with one of these stables, there is a paddock area where they can exercise, and I think it's very important for the humane treatment of the animals. If we're very serious about the tourism industry as we are, as every one in this room is, then we've got to do something about the overall carriage horse industry. We cannot have the tourism suffer simply because we don't have the right regulations in place. The accident that happened in Boston, the accidents which have happened in Kansas City, New Orleans, in New York, can happen here. We really are on the threshold of an accident waiting to happen. We've been very fortunate so far. The only problem we had last year, major problem, was a carriage that was rear-ended on Sixth Street. Well, luckily no passengers were in there, no tourists were in there. I can imagine what would have happened had they been. A lot more press coverage would have been given of that. We don't want that to happen. If we implement these changes, these simple changes, the lower temperatures, the fewer work hours, the stable requirements, we are going to have a much better industry and an industry that we 72 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 can be proud of. Although many of us would like to see it not here, we know that it is part of what we are working with in Philadelphia. So our request is you implement the changes, make the humane changes as requested, and thank you for you time.

Thank you very much for your testimony. Are there any questions for this witness? Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Mr. Grimes and Mr. Penn please. Is Mr. Penn here? In the interest of balance of the record, we'd like to have the representatives from the carriage industry put something on the record.

Mr. Chairman, would you like -- my client is a carriage company owner. Would you like him now? COUNCILMEN KENNEY: Whoever is testifying. I would appreciate before you begin your testimony if you would confine -- I'm going to try to boil this down to what it is you can live with and what the other side can live with. Because all 73 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the other issues of humane treatment of animals and all are somewhat subjective according to what side of the fence you're on. We have a bill before us. It makes certain suggestions. We've heard suggestions on how it can be changed from another side to improve it. You'd like to you make similar suggestions. Hopefully, we can come to some resolution of this issue. Please identify yourself for the record.

Thank you Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. My name is Michael Slocum. I am the president and owner of two carriage companies in the Philadelphia, 76 Carriage and Ben Franklin Carriage Company. The first issue that I would like to address on this bill is the restriction and limitation of hours under which carriages can operate on the city streets, that is from 7 a.m. to 9:30 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. I have no 21 great need for carriages to be on the street between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m.. I feel that we can certainly deal with that and live with that in this regulation. However, I do want to say that there are many contracted jobs and times where we are 74 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 asked to provide service for large groups and tours which stay in the Society Hill and Olde City area. I ask that this be able to be performed under a permit or a special issuance of some type of permit, perhaps by the Department of Streets. The second part of that, the working between 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. I think is very detrimental to the carriage industry. It is certainly a prime time for carriage visitors, tourist and residents alike, to enjoy the service and to be out and take advantage of everything this city has to offer. This would certainly have detrimental effects on this carriage industry.

I don't know where we'll go with this, but I can tell you it has a detrimental effect on traffic. It's just horrendous. The horse issues aside, temperature issues, I mean to get -- Walnut Street westbound on rush hour or Chestnut Street eastbound on rush hour is unbelievable when it comes to a horse -- I mean, what I fear sometimes, and again, I'll let you continue with your testimony, and on any other street, what you have basically are people rushing to get home who are aggravated from being behind 75 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 this thing and then try to do some cockamamy maneuver to get themselves out of the way. I mean, people don't stop at stop signs anymore let alone worry about what speed they go around a horse-drawn carriage. But I mean, I want you to understand from the industry standpoint, from my standpoint, that particular time of the day even more so than rush hour because people are stressed to get home is a very dangerous time of the day. To me it seems that way anyway.

I totally understand those concerns. In fact, what we would propose I think is a viable solution. Keep the carriages on a certain route or certain streets within that area during those hours. These streets and routes would certainly be known to the public, therefore, could certainly be avoided by the public if they choose to do so, not causing greater congestion among other streets and perhaps working with the Streets Department or Council to provide the service on streets that are less congested.

I didn't mean to interrupt you. You can just proceed.

That's fine. I understand. 76 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 There was an issue eliminating carriages from the use of Third Street on the routes. Again, I would like to oppose. Society Hill is a very important link to the City, the tourism industry and the Independence National Park area, and Third Street has many private residences, attractions, and sites that should be included and showcased to the visitors. I believe that this stems from the urine and possible manure situation, the odor expressed by the residents of Society Hill. And I feel that we can create some type of management program working with the Department of Streets, with the water trucks which currently are supposed to flush down the streets. I think that if this were done on a more frequent basis and if it were done more efficiently, not like I have observed going or 30 18 miles an hour where they barely wet the street, but 19 actually flushing the street, I think it would be 20 more effective and eliminate and reduce those odors. I think that may be a viable option that would work and address those issues.

Do you have issues on temperature?

Yes, I do. I believe that 77 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 we heard testimony here today that the numbers are basically arbitrary. The industry in the city started back in 1976, and until 1986 was unregulated as far as heat index or heat humidity or temperature was concerned. In those earlier years, there were no animals that suffered any heat distress, heat stroke, or any heat-related illnesses. In 1986 Council enacted a maximum temperature law stating that 94 degrees the horses be removed from the street. Since that time, no horses have ever suffered any ill effects or distresses over the heat or temperature. I feel that 92 degrees is just the lowering of this number with no scientific documentation or evidence. We did hear some testimony today about the fact that three-day event horses, there was a study done, but we're talking about carriage horses that are oversized pulling wagons which are essentially toys to them at a walk on a street. And we have no documentation or evidence to support the fact that it should be any lower than 94 degrees. I am prepared to answer any questions if you have any specific concerns. 78 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 One thing I would like to address, I know it was brought up today about the low-end temperature of the carriages. I would just like to say as an operator I grew up in this business and my father started this business and I essentially been in it ever since. I must say there is no one in this city, I feel, that cares more for these animals than myself or who could probably offer expert testimony on this industry. I have also traveled around the country. I've been involved with CONA, which is the Carriage Operators of North America Association. I was involved in the founding of that. I've also worked with legislation among other cities and operators across the country to try to regulate carriage industries. Unfortunately, in a lot of cities regulation has gone too far unnecessarily so basically because there are some people who feel that this type of business or industry should not exist. I feel that if we look at the facts and the evidence provided before us and that is documented out there in this country, there is no need to provide more than what we have been doing here in the City of Philadelphia. 79 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Thank you very much for your testimony. Do any other gentlemen at the table have anything to offer? Please identify yourself for record.

Thank you, my name is Barry Penn. I represent three of the carriage companies, Society Hill Carriage Company, Outback Farms, and Philadelphia Carriage Company. These carriage companies go back as early as 1975 and have been operating since that date. I concur with what Mr. Slocum has testified to about the temperature problem, which as all the operators will tell you, since that restriction or that temperature gauge has been effect, there has been no problems. But that's really a question for the operators to tell you about, and you've heard there really have been no problems with that arbitrary figure. I see no reason why it should be changed. My clients' concern really focus in on the requirement that notice must be given five days before an event in order to change a particular route. The problem with that particular regulation 80 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 is that sometimes they get a call or requirement that day and it would be very difficult to get the necessary permit or permission in order to change the route. They would prefer to have some type of phone number, for example, that they could call in, request a change in the route, in order to make the last-minute reservations. That's basically what our position is.

Your position is also in agreement with Mr. Slocum's testimony on the other factors involving the bill?

Yes.

Thank you very much. Councilmember DiCicco.

Thank you. The suggestion, Mr. Penn, about the phone number, that goes to the issue Mr. Slocum raised earlier about sometimes there are special events?

That's exactly correct.

Because I was going to ask the question how many days notice do you normally have for those?

Sometimes it could be two days, sometimes it could be 12 hours. And with all 81 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 the tourists coming in, there are last-minute calls.

So you would need sort of like a hotline number to call to say that, We need to pick up a passenger at Society Hill Sheraton and they would like to go through whatever part of the community which is not the normal route, right?

That's exactly correct.

Under the present legislation, the requirement is that horses are required to have a 15-minute rest period for every 45 minutes that they work?

Yes.

Is there a way averaging out the amount of time that the horses -- the given the ten hours that they're allowed on the street today, the interpretation says ten hours of work. I think we're going to amend that a little bit to accommodate some of the other concerns. But of the ten hours, what is the average time that a horse actually works excluding the 15 minutes? If someone rents a carriage and they do a half hour drive through Society Hill, typically the carriage comes back and waits in line at the end of the line, 82 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 so theoretically there's a 15-minute rest period and maybe sometimes even longer depending on when the next available renter comes. Is there any way to figure out how many hours in the day that the horse is actually pulling people around in that ten hours? Is there an average on that?

My estimate would be an average four or five hours of actual pulling time over the course of an eight-hour shift downtown, and then you would add on the travel time to and from the barn which probably takes an additional 13 minutes. 14

So eight hours 15 would not be impacting on your business, given the 16 time to and from the stable. 17

The length of the day would 18 be. If it were worded an eight-hour working day 19 actual pulling, no, that would have no effect on us 20 at all.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Councilmember Rizzo.

Mr. Slocum, how many stables do you operate in the City of Philadelphia? 83 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

I have one.

How many horses are housed in that stable?

We have approximately to 6 30 horses at any given time. 7

Is there an attendant 8 on duty all the time, is there someone there? 9

Twenty-four hours, yes. 10

Twenty-four hours a 11 day? 12

Yes. 13

Are you regulated in 14 any way? Are you required to have smoke detectors, 15 sprinkler system, any type of an alarm system in the 16 event of a fire? 17

We are not regulated, 18 however, we do have them. 19

In the event of a 20 fire, that attendant would be required to turn out 21 all of those horses? How would you deal with that, 22 a situation like that? 23

Our facility is set up very 24 well. We have probably four different access and 25 egress routes that we could evacuate horses, two of 84 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 which lead to 150 by 150 turnout yard which is totally fenced in.

There's never ever, Christmas, New Year's Eve, a time when that stable is left unattended and that in the event of a fire it would be undetected until it got to the point where it was out control possibly?

There are times. There are periods of a half hour, hour, or several hours where there may be no one in the building. That could happen on a Tuesday in June, we'll say.

There's no type of early warning system, smoke detectors that would alert the fire department?

We have smoke detectors, fire alarms, and surveillance security cameras.

But do they notify anyone of a --

No, not to the local --

Thanks very much. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Just one final question. Have either of you gentlemen had any -- has there ever been any instances where passengers 85 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 have been injured related to sitting up at the top deck or whatever that piece is called where the driver is?

Not that I'm aware of.

There have been none in our years of operation. 8

Thank you. 9

What impact does that 10 have on the business. To me it just doesn't seem 11 logical to have a young kid or anyone else sitting 12 up that high in the -- I mean, you don't have people 13 sitting in the front seat generally of a taxicab. 14 It seems to be a distraction. It seems to be a 15 potential for injury. To me, it doesn't seem 16 logical to have a person without restraint at that 17 height next to the driver who has to be both guide, 18 talk to the people there, watch out for the traffic. 19 It just seems like it would have been a lot. 20

If I may say, it is our policy, our company policy, and it has been for many years that the public, paying customers, are not to ride on the driver's seat, the drivers booth, and that is basically for safety reasons.

It seems sensible. 86 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

I've seen people up there. So if we made it so the public is prohibited, does that impact your business in any way?

From an insurance company standpoint, they're biggest regulators of this industry from that end. My business standpoint, that would not impact my business because that is company policy.

Is there anything else? Mr. Grimes.

Mr. Chairman, I want to point out something in the law which may be beneficial when you talk about the temperature issue. Under the city code as it is right now, we've all been talking about the 94 degrees, but the law gives an "or" right after the 94 degrees and also provides that horses can be required to be pulled from the streets during other dangerous conditions which are a threat to the safety of the horse. So that would seem to me -- and I understand that the practical effect of that is if there were other dangerous conditions, possibly a slightly lower temperature where there is incredible humidity 87 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 or something like that, but there is some leeway here. So I would just point that out because we've been dealing with absolutes about temperature, and I don't know that the law right now gives absolutes.

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, the only other thing I would say is we have written copies of the testimony that Mr. Slocum would provide that for distribution. Also attached is a letter from the veterinarian for his company which basically just attests to the fact that in the years he's been 13 doing work with 76 Carriage, there have been on 14 heat-related problems with the horses in that 15 company. 16

That will be submitted 17 for the record. Thank you. Thank you very much for 18 your testimony. 19

Mr. Robinson. 20

I have to thank you for the opportunity to testify. I'm a long-time resident of Society Hill.

Please identify yourself.

My name is Irwin Edward 88 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 Robinson. I live at Six Blackwell Place. Blackwell Place is a courtyard between Second and Third between Lumbar and Pine. Our particular area is heavily impacted by the carriage horses. They wake us up in the morning on a Saturday or a Sunday morning. When we have the opportunity to open windows, we regret that we've done so because the smell of urine is absolutely horrendous. And I talk specifically about the block of Stamper Street running from Second to Third. I note that in the ordinance there is a rerouting of the way that the carriages can go. And if I read the ordinance correctly, it makes Stamper Street a no-no. Am I correct?

It would seem that from the route that's here, that it would do that.

Now, we achieved that goal some years ago when one of your predecessors, the Honorable James Tayune was a member of Council by simply addressing the issue to him, he went to the carriage drivers, and he got them to agree not to go up or down Stamper Street.

As irony would have it, he is currently representing the carriage industry 89 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 and wants us to take this out of the Bill, among other things.

I was not aware of that.

Doesn't make him a bad person. It just shows you how things change over the years.

I was not aware of that. All I can tell you is Stamper Street was a no-no under his aegis, and we welcomed that change. The other area of particular interest to me in a certain selfish sense is that I am a lover of horses. I was seniorly involved in the creation of the new Bolton Center for Veterinary Medicine of Equine and Large Animals as a part of the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine with Dr. Jock Jenny who was the moving force for the creation of that institution. It is in a sense probably the greatest institution of its kind anywhere in the world. It brings thoroughbred horses that would otherwise be put down, not to race again, but to stand in stud. Any horse, I don't care whether it's a broken down beat-up horse or it's a magnificent thoroughbred, a horse is a horse, to borrow a line. 90 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Of course.

And I think the humane treatment of these animals is a must. And prior to this hearing, I handed up to the chairman some materials which I would like incorporated into the record.

They will be.

Which make references in a biblical sense to what is required of us as God-fearing people who have a humankind interest in animals, and to do otherwise is not only wrong, but it's sacrilegious. Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you very much for staying here to testify. We appreciate it. Candice Schaeffer, Debbie Kramer? Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.

I'm Candice Schaeffer. I'm from out Westchester and I come to you as an equine lover. I am a horse owner of two, one a thoroughbred and another a Hanoverian who is very heavyset and carries around my 190-pound husband. So I'm very aware of the differences 91 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 between horses, depending upon their build and breed and the type of work that they're doing. I'd like to say that I support Dr. Cheever and the recommendations that she made. I have some papers, as I'm a member of CARE, which is an organization that's within Philadelphia and Westchester. It is compassion for animals and respect for the environment and the relationship between the two. I'd like to say that when we think of carriage horses, we think of Black Beauty and the days of old, which kind of goes with Philadelphia's theme of history and the historic edge of having a carriage horses around. And I ask you to please update our laws so that we can be modern in that way and not have horses suffering under antiquated laws that no longer -- that don't look out for their well-being. The recommendations that I give before you are not those for turning these animals into pampered pets. They are recommendations to protect these animals to make their lives bearable. As we've heard, they are not really fit, young, healthy horses that are being used on the 92 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 streets in most cases, but they have special needs, and most of them I would imagine are going to go to the slaughter houses when they break down and no 5 longer work. Therefore, I suggest that their conditions be made as tolerant and as considerate and conscious as possible so they can perform their duties as long as possible which is in the best benefit of the carriage owners and the horses and the tourist industry of the city. Coming in on the weekends with my children and with friends, we often see the carriage horses, and it's always nice to see the ones that are well cared for and healthy. And there's nothing more depressing than to see one that has a sad look in his eyes with his head held low and looking like they're not cared for properly. And imagine the life that they're leading that they have no escape from as we've heard, without being able to turn around and scratch themselves or to run free in a paddock. Although, it's wonderful to hear that the 76 Carriage horses do have a paddock for turnout. I commend them, and I've heard things about their carriage company and I hope that others will follow suit and treat their horses more humanely. 93 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 What we're asking for is to reduce the working hours to a maximum of six to eight hours per day, to provide horse blankets when temperatures fall to 32 degrees Fahrenheit, which would include the humidity levels. It is much easier to see that horses are suffering in the heat. When it is cold, it's harder to tell. They do shiver but sometimes. People aren't that aware and aren't looking that closely. You can feel their ears, and if their ears are chilled, you know that they really are under distress. Sometimes it goes further than that before people take notice. Also to prohibit passengers from sitting next to the driver for the reasons earlier discussed, to require physical exams of stables twice a year, and to please improve and enforce the current ordinance and regulations including seeing that physical exams of the horses are made by qualified veterinarians once a year, using only approved carriage routes and having police impose fines for violations of the regulation. I know that some people are treating their horses well, but I think it does need to be assured.

And I ask you all to please, please 94 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 take -- last year I believe from what I've heard, it was not here, that one of the reasons why it was not progress made in this area was that there was not a consensus made amongst those people who came to present their opinions. And what we're asking for is really trying to come to a consensus. I can't say to you that the things I'm recommending are things that I would like. I would like to see it go further than that, personally, but these are things that we can agree on, and I think that's so important that we are able to come to a consensus and agree on a baseline so that we don't go on and on and on and conditions stay the same as they are because we can't agree. So we're willing to say, okay, let's do this, we can do this if the other side can compromise and come to this agreement, too, so that we can make progress before it gets too hot and save these horse from, you know, more and more days of really suffering on the streets out there. I would never dream of -- my horses are in during the day when it's hot in their stalls and they go out at night when its cool in the summertime. And we've reversed it, in the wintertime they're out in the day when it's warm and 95 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 they're in when it's cold at night. These horses don't have that luxury. They don't have a lot of luxury, but please let's give them this.

Thank you for you testimony. Do you have anything else to add, ma'am? Please identify yourself.

I'm Debbie Kramer. I don't have much to add. I'm agreement in agreement and support of Candice and William Hawkins, and Dr. Cheever. And I'm also a long-time resident of Philadelphia, now outside of Philadelphia. I've had horses all my life. I still do, and my horse was just accepted to the Reyer Home for Aged Equines right outside of Philadelphia, which was started in Philadelphia by Ann Reyer back at the turn of the century. Originally, I don't know if you know this, but it was for -- she took pity on the work horses and she started a home for them, really. And also my horse is one of very few horses in the whole country out of the thousands and thousands of horses in this country, most of them 96 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 will end up getting stuffed into cattle cars, shipped thousands of miles across the country, and the ones who survive will go through a horrendous slaughter and then most of them will be sold for human food, either to Europeans or Japanese people. The ones that don't get made into dog food, but most are human food. I would venture to guess that virtually all of the carriage horses are going to end up this way, and therefore, all the more reason if they have to work their whole lives before they go to that, to make the conditions as humane as possible. Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony. Andy Mao, Mr. Mao? He's not here, then that will conclude the list of witnesses. Yes, Mr. Hawkins?

There was one witness that was added, Leslie Wood.

Is she here?

Yes.

This will have to be the last witness on this issue for today because there's 97 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 only hours in a day. Thank you for waiting. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.

Leslie M. Wood. And 6 I'll try to make this short and sweet. Just to give 7 you my credentials, I'm currently a faculty member 8 with an adult education program in Chester County 9 where I do teach equine massage therapy, equine 10 anatomy and equine science programs. I'm also a 11 graduate of the American Humane Association Horse 12 Abuse Investigator School, so I'm sort of in a 13 position, based on a lot of my training I'm working 14 with various different skill levels in terms of 15 horsemanship training and so forth, but I have a few 16 things that I'd like to add, and I'm definitely a 17 proponent of Dr. Cheever's recommendations. 18 One of the things I might I add, I am a 19 graduate of an urban -- of Temple University and had 20 occasion to see carriage horses in and around 21 Philadelphia quite a bit. The carriage horses I 22 observed seem to have routes which included heavy 23 traffic areas in Center City including parts of 24 Market Street near the Bourse Building. Now this was years ago. I believe this has changed a little 98 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 bit since then. However, recently traveling into the City on a typical Saturday afternoon around mid-afternoon, I witnessed a lot of carriage horses in around the South Street area and the Olde City area below Market, south of Market, between Front and Second Street, west of Front Street, east of Sixth Street, Sixth and Market Street, Fifth and Filbert, Filbert and Sansom and in and around Independence Hall on Chestnut Street. What I'm concerned with is that all of these horses seem to be moving in tremendous heavy traffic. And I personally would like to see a reduction of the use carriage horses in these kind of conditions, in terms of rush hour traffic or maybe selecting alternate route or rerouting these horses. Another observation I would have would be in terms of the actual care that the horses seem to be receiving. It does not seem to be uniform. Each carriage company seems to have a particular place where they rest their horses. However, sometimes the horses are lined up under shady trees, whereas other horses seem to be waiting in areas that are fully exposed to the hot sun without shade. My main concerned here is that a horse that is 99 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 worked as hard as a carriage horse, especially if they're work for ten hours, is that on a typically hot day, say, 94 degrees, if they're not given adequate water that they can very quickly become dehydrated which can lead to more serious complications and so forth which Dr. Cheever has reviewed with you previously. Another thing I observed is that a lot of the horses were still fully hitched to their rigs. I did observed water buckets, but I didn't actually observe that horses were being offered water. However, I did see water buckets, but none of the horses were being offered water. Another recommendation I would have which would go along with the horse care and safety aspect is the fact that when these horses are resting and standing, even whether it be under the shady trees, they are standing on hard asphalt which is very, very hard, you know, it's difficult for their feet and as well as their suspensory ligaments and their legs. It might be a good thing to provide some kind of a rubber matting which could be rolled out in which the horse could stand on. These rubber mats which were suggested previously by the farrier 100 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 are something that you can purchase. They are relatively inexpensive and they can be rolled out or rolled up, depending, but they would be a good investment. Other observations, this would go along with the recommendation for physical exams of stables. I would like to see that be at least twice a year. However, I would also add that I'm concerned, having sort of observed some of the horses throughout the City, the carriage horses, they actually look, some of them, to be far too light.

In other words, they're too small to be carrying the load they're expected to be pulling. This is a concern to me. I'm wondering if there's currently any kind of a code or an enforcement that would specify that the carriage operators need to be working with the veterinarian in order to make the selection of horses that are appropriate to be carriage horses, okay? In my business and what I do as a massage therapist, I deal with horses that are stressed. A lot of them happen to be geriatric, they're older horses, they're over ten years of age. I know for a fact from what I've heard in speaking 101 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239 to other people that a lot of these horses that are used in carriage horse industries are not in the best of shape to begin with, and this is a concern to me. So I would like to see selection of horse working alongside a veterinarian, whether it be somebody that's hired by the City or somebody from the Pennsylvania SPCA working directly with these operators to select these horses. Time factors, hours allowed operation and horse care and safety, I would like to see improved carriage driver education. I understand that it is left to the individual carriage operation to elect whether or not to train its driver. I would assume that there would be some rudimentary training of the driver. However, I think that this would need to be improved upon to include basic first aid, to understand, you know, whether or not a horse is dehydrated, things that Dr. Cheever specified in terms of dehydration and so forth and heat prostration. The changes are necessary to ensure high standards of safety. If a carriage operator is taking pride in its horse's experience, this reflects well on the City. That's all I have to say. 102 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980239

Thank you very much for your testimony. That will conclude the witness list for the Bill. So the individuals in the room interested in this legislation are aware, what my intention is avenue I hear Bill No. 980388 is to recess this hearing until 6 o'clock this evening. During the period of time, Councilmember DeCicco who is a primary sponsor of the Bill will be working with my staff to craft amendments as a result of today's testimony. We hope, and the reason that we hope to get this out of Committee sometime today is, again, the issue of the summer coming upon us and we'd like to have something in place prior to the height of July 4th and summer season. So there won't be any decision until 6 o'clock and maybe later. I also want to advise anybody who is interested in this particular bill that after this Committee hearing, we have an Appropriations Committee hearing, we have a Public Property Committee hearing. I believe in the Public Property Committee there are at least 10 or more bills. We will then come back at some point in time and do the Committee of the Whole. We'll be here probably 103 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980388 until or o'clock at tonight. So I'm not sure exactly whether or not o'clock is the time. In 4 order for me to continue the quorum and do this 5 properly, I need to recess this hearing to a time 6 certain. We may have to recess it again to another time certain, but for all intents and purposes for today. We expect that something coming out of this Committee today on this issue. So that will conclude the hearing on this particular bill. We will now move to Bill No. 980388, which is an ordinance amending Section 9-205 of the Philadelphia code, relating to sidewalk sales, by adding a new provision prohibiting sidewalk sales on Verree Road from Oxford Avenue to Bloomfield Road and Rhawn Street from Pine Road to Algon Avenue. Please identify yourself for the record.

Good afternoon members of the L & I Committee. I am John P. Campbell, Legislative Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections, and I'm here to testify on the provisions of Bill No. 23 980388, which if enacted, if adopted, would prohibit vending and sidewalk sales on Rhawn Street and Verree Road. The Department has no objection to the 104 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980388 enactment of this bill and will enforce its provisions if Council so ordains. Just by way of information, Rhawn Street and Verree Road are two heavily traveled and used arterial streets in Northeast Philadelphia. Rhawn Street is along Cottman Avenue, Grand Avenue is one of the main east/west arterial streets running from roughly Pine Road to County Line to State Road, that ending at the prison. Verree Road, also a four-lane highway, again, from Oxford Avenue all the way up. And again, during traffic hours, it is really a mess and banning vending in this area would be an improvement.

You're being more glib than I need you to be, Mr. Campbell. I appreciate your descriptive narrative, but you're willing to enforce the provisions of the Bill?

Yes, sir.

Would you please identify yourself for the record?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee. My name is Richard Bruno I'm here testifying on behalf of Councilman O'Neil on Bill No. 980388. 105 COMMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - 980388 This bill is introduced at the request of residents who have had problems with vendors impeding traffic and causing dangerous situations in this area. I ask that it be reported favorably out of this Committee.

Thank you for testimony.

I would also ask that the rules of Council be suspended.

At this late date, you don't have to make that request.

There also is a typo. Verree Road is spelled with two R's.

That non-substantive change will be made in the title. Thank you very much. That will conclude the business of the Licenses and Inspections Committee hearing for now. We will now recess the Licenses and Inspections Committee hearing until 6:00 p.m. today, June 10, 1998 in this room. Thank you very much. I believe the Appropriations Committee will begin momentarily. (Hearing adjourned 3:50 p.m.) - - - 106 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Committee on Licenses and Inspections is being reconvened. We are going to deal with Bill No. 980 -- I want to ask that all conversation -- I would ask right now politely all conversation in the room to cease. If you need to talk, you have to go outside 'cause the room acoustically is a problem, and any conversation carries. Bill No. 980239 is an ordinance 12 amending Section 9-402 and 10-108 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "Animal-Drawn Carriages and Rental and Carriage Horse Respectively" as well as approved route map for carriage horses to change the working conditions of horses and to restrict carriage horse routes and business hours, all under certain terms and conditions. The Chair recognizes Councilmember DiCicco for the purpose of offering amendments to Bill No. 980239.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Just for the record, we have a continuing quorum of the Rules 107 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING Committee, which was recessed a few hours ago and scheduled again for 6, and we're getting it now. So Councilman DiCicco, please read into the record the amendments and the purpose. Of the amendments.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I offer the following amendments to Bill No. 980239: Section 1, , under Section 12 1(f)(.1), and it should read at the end of that paragraph the following: "Special emergency permits may be acquired by contacting the Permits Section of the Department of Streets by telephone." On , to be added to Section B, B as in boy: "Temperature is over 92 degrees Farenheit or during other dangerous conditions." After the first sentence ending with the word "horse," add the following language: "Blankets suitable to the individual horse shall be used when the temperature falls below 32 degrees Farenheit." To the same -- I'm sorry, excuse me. 108 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING Under section 2, we should add Subsection C: "Owners shall not allow a horse to be worked on a public highway, path, or street for more than eight hours per day." Subsection D will read: "Owners shall not allow a passenger or passengers to be seated next to the driver of said carriage." Add section E -- I'm sorry, add Subsection E: "All stables to be inspected twice annually."

Just so that the record is clear, in the current ordinance and current regulations, who is empowered to inspect stables now?

The Health Department. To the best of my knowledge, it's the Health Department.

So the Health Department will be required --

Right.

-- to inspect twice annually.

Right.

And so that the 109 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING record's clear, testimony prior was that the stables are inspected on average about four times a year. This would statutorily require it at least twice.

That's correct.

Mr. Chair.

Councilman Rizzo.

Mr. Chairman, from my recollection, it was the SPCA that conducted those inspections, not the Health Department.

Not required.

The SPCA does it as a matter of volunteerism.

Right.

The Health Department does it as a matter of regulation and statute.

They presently do that?

Right. So the SPCA may get in there once, once a year.

The Health Department.

The Health 110 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING Department. So that's four times a year the SPCA. The Health Department will be required to be in there twice. That's been recommended by Dr. Cheever, I think it was her testimony.

Yes.

And the amendment is clear that when we talk about that second passenger, that's a person for hire, not an employee of the carriage company.

Right, it's a passenger.

It's a passenger.

A paying passenger.

A paying passenger.

A paying passenger, they are prohibited from sitting in the seat next the to driver.

Okay.

And lastly, the amendment will be to delete entirely Section 3.

I'm sorry, what was the final?

To delete Section 111 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING 3.

Section 3?

Section 3. On the pink, for some reason, Section 3 was incorrectly printed. It should have been in italics as being proposed, if you look at the pink. The way you look at the pink now, it's as though it were part of the bill, but it shouldn't be there. It should have been in italics. So we're saying eliminate Section 3 completely.

So there will be no 14 approved route, no specified approved route?

No, we're not going to change from the route that is presently in place today.

Fine, fine.

This was a proposed change; we're not going to change it.

Fine. Any questions for Councilmember --

And I would request respectfully that the rules of Council be suspended. 112 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING

Yes, sir. Any questions for the Councilmember on the amendments? (No questions.)

None? Any other testimony on this bill or on Bill 980388, which is an ordinance amending 9-205 of The Philadelphia Code relating to sidewalk sales banning and new provisions providing sidewalk sales on Verree Road from Oxford Avenue to Bloomfield Road, and Walnut Street from Pine Road to Algon. Seeing no other witnesses for these bills, that will conclude the public hearing of the Licenses and Inspections Committee. - - - 113 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING

We will now move into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Tasco for a motion to approve the amendments to Bill No. 980239.

Mr. Chairman, I move that we adopt the amendments that have been presented. (Duly seconded.)

Moved and seconded. All in favor, aye. There are none opposed. The amendments to Bill No. 980239 are approved. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Tasco for a motion on the amended bill, 980239, with a rules suspension.

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report the bill as stated out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for suspension of the rules so that this bill could be heard at Council's next session. (Duly seconded.)

Moved and seconded. 114 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING All in favor, aye. There are none opposed. Bill No. 980239, as amended, will be reported out of this committee favorably, and a request will be made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council session. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Tasco for a motion Bill No. 980388, with a rules suspension.

Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 980388 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for the suspension of the rules so that this bill can be heard at the Council's next session. (Duly seconded.)

It's been moved and second. All in favor, aye. There are none opposed. Bill No. 980388 will be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation, and a request will be made for rules suspension to allow for first reading at our next Council. 115 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - PUBLIC MEETING That concludes business of the Licenses and Inspections Committee. (Adjourned at 7:50 p.m.) - - - 116 C E R T I F I C A T E WE HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, June 10, 1998, were reported and accurately by us, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS BILL NO.'S 980339, 980388 __________________________________, LISA C. BRADLEY, Registered Professional Reporter __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter