Well, I think it's fair, Councilman, to -- I mean, last year, there were -- I mean, you know, I got -- I threw myself into 63 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 this 'cause I didn't like the way we were communicating and I didn't think it was working, and you have a lot of this kind of going back and forth, which ended up becoming adversarial, when the agencies were really supposed to be trying to figure out how to work together the way we are now. I think the context is, you know, for those of us who are homeowners and parents and all of that, that this is an issue -- that the magnitude of this issue affecting, you know, like you said, you guys were talking about it in 1990, it's an issue -- the EPA standards, I thought, actually came out like in '91 or something like that or became effective in '91, applied to all buildings. And while this issue's been, you know, getting addressed and not -- we weren't doing what we we're doing now, most places are still not doing what we're doing what. And --
We're only concerned about -- I'm not concerned about what -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
-- which is what you're 64 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 going to, and the School District also during that time has been very aggressively addressing health issues in the environmental area such as the issue of lead paint and asbestos. And, you know, in this, we'd like to be doing everything at once, and I think that there is -- this whole endeavor could have been going a lot more smoothly over the last, you know, over the last year than it has.
Could you find out for me if you actually -- if someone in the District actually required a search warrant from the EPA?
In reference to -- you know, we've all been through Firestone tires and now we're discussing this issue. Maybe you can elaborate or explain -- I believe the Philadelphia Inquirer wanted some information about this issue, and they were basically turned away and had to use the Freedom of Information Act to get the information that they reported, and I 65 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 heard that today on another -- why would they have to use -- or go to the extreme of using the Freedom of Information Act to get some information from the School District about the magnitude or the problem that you folks were facing?
They shouldn't have, and I believe they got the information from the EPA under the Freedom of Information Act. And, you know, today, that's something that wouldn't have happened. It's -- you know, in my opinion, it's not the way -- the School District shouldn't be getting defensive about things and then say, Wait, stop, let me go see what's going on. If we're operating from the position that we're an open book, we should be -- we should be just a lot more forthcoming with information. One of the issues reported in that article was how -- the delay in getting some of that information. My understanding is that the District has provided to the EPA, and I think to anyone else who's asked, the -- everything that the School District has that was responsive. And that's -- I mean, that's as much as we know after, you know, after trying to dig into this same 66 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 question.
Well, I know that a citizen got a hold of those consultants' reports. I'd like --
Councilman, and I mean this earnestly, if there -- if there is something that someone has, either a member of the public or the Council, that we don't have, we'd like to see it.
I would like to -- if I had it, I'd give it to you, but this was a thing that you contracted for.
And my understanding is that the reports that we have been provided and I don't know how many that is.
One final question, and then we have -- okay, one question from me and then one question from Councilwoman Miller. I'd like to find out from you in terms of what it's going to take to solve this problem thoroughly and how much it's going to cost. And whether, you know, what manner of infrastructure change needs to be accomplished. Because we 67 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 cannot have -- we cannot expect kids to keep on going to unsafe learning environments. So if I can have that from you, sir, I would appreciate it. 'Cause we're going to have a follow-up hearing to this to find out where we're at, where we're going, and how we're doing.
Councilman, one of the problems with estimating the costs at this point is that we really don't know the extent of the problem. As Miss Hooven described --
I mean, I understand. I mean, this is what I'm talking about.
I mean, we're talking ten years after we knew what the problem was and we still don't know what the extent of the problem is.
I think that they were reacting, Councilman, to your question about remediation, which is something -- we can tell you what the cost of testing is. 68 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
Well, remediation, what I've found out so far is turning off.
Is turning off, but that is not a solution because kids need drinking water.
I mean, once you turn it off, how do you turn it back on? And then how much is it going to cost to turn it back on?
We can provide you with the to-date and probably projected cost of testing costs of water, what we've spent so far on remedial -- well, what we already know about in terms of what's going to need to be fixed. My understanding is that we're still working with the EPA and the City on the actual remediation plan -- is that the right terminology? So that we can give you up to what we have and keep you posted, both through our Web site and directly as we roll this out of how the certainty --
Well, if you have a remediation plan, I'd like to see it, I'd like to 69 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 keep it for the committee, and Council can keep on with this, okay?
If the building engineer can't get into the school to flush the water, does that mean that the water is turned off for that day?
No. And, Councilwoman, we have had several occasions where, for one reason or another, a building engineer did not get to the building on time to do the proper flushing. In that case, the building is not flushed on that particular day, and the incident of that happening is very, very small. In that case, the building is not flushed, but we cannot operate the building without the essential water. I mean, we need water for drinking, we need water for toilets, et cetera, et cetera. And I assure you that that has happened in just a very, very small handful of cases.
Okay. You know, 70 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 I guess with -- I have the same concerns of Councilman Ortiz, that if this is a problem that we know about, then we have to do something to rectify it. We cannot have children -- and I also have a daughter in public school. We cannot have children drinking from fountains with contaminated water.
We wholeheartedly agree, Councilwoman, and we're taking every step we can to prevent that from happening.
Okay. One other question Councilman Mariano asked me to ask. What role, if any, does the PFT --
Because, Mr. Ramos, could you stay around, please? 'Cause I think we may have some others. But given the situation we're in, given -- in terms of overall the school system and the 71 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 need for money overall in the school system, we really don't need a lot of other costs coming into existence. So it really -- if it's really going to impact on a lot of other stuff, the ripple effect of this really has some long-term repercussions.
In terms of our cap, we're dealing with this in our operating budget, and I know Mr. McGlinchy can give you some preliminary stuff. We're dealing with in the capital budget in terms of our planning. When we do our requirements contracts on what faucet fixtures --
Absolutely. We need to -- and, you know, I'm -- I at this point think that there is a momentum building for a type of program in Philadelphia that other places are going to be looking at to deal with their issues when they come to dealing with them.
Thank you, 72 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 Mr. Ramos. Mr. Jack Steinberg of the PFT.
Mr. Chairman, I just want to beg your indulgence for a minute just in terms of a matter that I raised to you during our City Council briefing in 225 the other day, and that's I'm currently recessed from my own tribunal, from my own body over there, and I can stick around for a while, but we're at a middle school this evening.
We're going to have a follow-up hearing on this, so it's no problem.
Dr. Tsou, Commissioner, we'll be right with you after this, okay?. 73 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 Jack, you know the drill. Just get the microphone and identify yourself for the record.
I'm Jack Steinberg, and I'm currently here under the responsibility of Chairman of the Health and Welfare Fund for the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers. We had arranged for our industrial hygienist to be here last Monday. Unfortunately, when the change was made, he couldn't make it today so that if you have -- if I can't supply the answers for you and if you have any other technical questions, write them down and I'll certainly get all of the information to you.
And by the way, if you want to use him as a source on some generic questions, please feel free.
Okay, thank you. The Philadelphia Federation of Teachers Health and Welfare Fund has retained and used the services of Occupational Health Consultation Services, Incorporated, and Mr. Roseman is our 74 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 consultant, the industrial hygienist that I mentioned before. We used them for many years for the purpose of ensuring that the School District buildings in which our members work and in which our school children are taught, hopefully, we have to keep them healthful and safe. OHCS has helped evaluate a broad range of occupational and environmental and health and safety issues, including those related to asbestos, indoor air quality, chemical contamination, lead exposures and others for many years. As a result of parents asking for the Health and Welfare Fund, it is our policy to invite not only staff but also parents to meetings concerning environmental problems so that they can be included and fully understand all of the issues that affect the environment in which their children learn. This approach originated many years ago. The reason I'm explain this is technically the Health and Welfare Fund is to supply health services for our members, but we never hold a faculty or a staff meeting on these issues without inviting the parents. And 75 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 frequently, the parents demand it. This approach originated many years ago, when parents at the Bryant School refused to permit their children to enter the building until they heard from the PFT Health and Welfare Fund. We had meetings with parents and faculties at dozens of schools throughout the entire city. It has been our experience that when the PFT Health and Welfare Fund uses OHCS in this manner, a much more effective situation in terms of communication and remediation of hazardous condition results. This benefits all of the parties and prevents emotional overreactions in many cases. The PFT Health and Welfare Fund is committed to such an approach because the health, welfare, and safety of not only the staffs but also of the children who use the Philadelphia public schools is our concern. A few years ago, we alerted the School District of the problem of lead in the drinking water in Philadelphia schools. Following much prompting and an EPA-issued recall of several types of water coolers known to contain significant concentrations of lead, a large-scale 76 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 effort was undertaken by the School District to evaluate and sample water in schools for lead concentration. This activity was carried out over several months and cost the School District thousands of dollars. At the time, the School District did not permit us access and input into all phases of this work. Unfortunately, the program is so inadequate that it resulted in unusable data and necessitated the School District having to start all over from the beginning. This required a costly duplication of effort. Even today, the School District policy seems to be the exclusion of the PFT Health and Welfare Fund from full and open involvement in addressing the safety and -- these safety and health hazards. The same seems to be true with respect to the EPA and the City of Philadelphia's Department of Health in connection with lead-in- he-water testing being conducted by the School District. Lead is a very serious health hazard to Philadelphia school children and to our members. And, by the way, it's cumulative in the blood. 77 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 You should keep that in mind. It is particularly dangerous to very young children, to pregnant woman, and to those with certain other diseases. Lead in paint and water must be seriously and comprehensively evaluated and remediated. Lead accumulates in bone and potentially affects blood, reproductive organs, the brain, and many other bodily systems and organs. It is a cumulative poison, with every exposure contributing to the potential hazard.
Lead can cause birth defect, spontaneous miscarriage, brain damage, and associated learning defects, and (unintelligible) and other blood and marrow diseases can also result. Because of the seriousness of exposure to this contaminant in the School District buildings, the PFT Health and Welfare Fund is very concerned about the way in which the inspection, evaluation, testing, and remediation effort of the School District has proceeded. So far, the School District has collected more than 12,000 water samples from approximately 225 different locations. Almost 12,000 individual outlets have been tested for their lead and water 78 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 concentration. It is important to note that of the samples collected, about percent, or 4 somewhere around 2500 samples, have exceeded the 5 action level -- that's the safe -- what they 6 designate as the safe level for the amount of lead 7 that can be safely found in water. And in about 8 11 percent or 1300 samples, the level of lead in 9 the water is twice what is considered to be safe 10 by the EPA and the Department of Health. 11 There are about 500 outlets in over 100 12 separate locations that have had to be removed 13 from service because of concerns about the 14 dangerous levels of lead in the water. In more 15 than 80 buildings, bottled water is being used to 16 ensure that children and faculties are not 17 drinking dangerously lead-contaminated water. 18 Because of the extent of the lead 19 contamination of drinking water in the 20 Philadelphia schools and the way in which the District has conducted themselves during these past 11 or 12 months on this project, we have some very grave concerns. There are several reasons for our concern, including EPA and the Philadelphia Department of Health statements and 79 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 conclusions pointing out serious deficiencies in the way in which the School District was complying with the initial agreement that the Philadelphia Department of Health and the Philadelphia School District had on drinking water safety, signed on December 31, 1999. Less than eight weeks ago, the EPA was quite concerned with the way in which the School District was conducting the lead testing program. They notified Dr. Tsou, Commissioner of the City of Philadelphia's Department of Health, that despite personal assurances from the previous superintendent that he would exercise an oversight and compliance function and that strict safeguards would be followed to address the risks posed by lead in water, there had been evidence of significant failures by the School District to observe compliance with the agreements signed. The EPA found that, one, drinking water outlets had not been turned off in all cases where sample results exceeded the lead-in-water safe level. S. Jenks School. The Philadelphia School District had undertaken 80 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 remediation and follow-up sampling without approval by the Philadelphia Departments of Health and Water, which is required. In some cases, lead-bearing fixtures have been remediated with another potentially lead-bearing fixture, and that, for lack of communication with the Philadelphia School District, continues to undermine EPA confidence in the sampling. For instance, maintenance personnel flushed the water at some locations immediately prior to the collection of samples. Examples of that would be South Philly High and the Pollock School. This renders the samples collected meaningless and can make contaminated water appear to be safe. The Health Department responded by issuing an order to the Philadelphia School District on or about October 11th that indicated many problems have been observed. The Health Department said, in the course of its inspection, the Health Department has observed children drinking from water outlets that are known to exceed 20 ppb. That's the action level for safe levels, that's 20 parts per billion.
Also, the 81 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 School District has not complied with its obligation under the agreement as set forth. That's the end of the quote. Specifically, there were seven areas of deficiency pointed out by the Philadelphia Department of Health as follows: 1. The Philadelphia School District has not prioritized sampling activities as required. 2. The School District has not completed follow-up sampling within five days as required. 3. The Philadelphia School District failed to turn off outlets within the required 48 hours that tested above the safe level. 4. The Philadelphia School District has not developed remediation plans as required. 5. The School District sampling has not been in compliance with proper sampling protocols. 6. The Philadelphia School District performed remediation without agreement from Health and Water Departments. 7. The Philadelphia School District 82 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 has not established an escrow fund to pay for costs and fines. The Health Department concluded by saying, quote, based on the foregoing, the Health Commissioner finds the Philadelphia School District in substantial noncompliance with the terms of the agreement, end of quote. Because of these deficiencies and the potential harm that can result from exposure to lead, fines and costs have been levied against the School District. The School District has been ordered to pay $1 million in fines, 300, which was already to have been escrowed. They also have been assessed 75,000 to reimburse the Department of Health for the cost of oversight and monitoring. 2 million spent by the School District on consultants. School District labor and laboratory costs on those projects so far. Because of the deficiency of the District's approach to this very serious matter and because the Health and Welfare Fund firmly believes that a cooperative approach between our representatives and those from the 83 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 School District will further the smooth and efficient conduct of the lead-in-water testing and remediation, we are offering the following recommendations: 1. Steps should be taken to ensure that all drinking water outlets that exceed the action for safe level for lead are immediately removed from service. Quality assurance and onsite monitoring should be done to confirm that this has been done. 2. Steps to ensure that proper sampling procedures and protocols are followed should be developed. All remedial action should be developed after discussion and input with all technical representatives, including those from the PFT Health and Welfare Fund. Remedial action should then be approved by the Philadelphia Department of Health and the EPA before they are undertaken, and technical representatives from the PFT Health and Welfare Fund should be notified of and invited to any and all meetings held between representatives of the Philadelphia School District and their consultants and contractors, EPA, the City of Philadelphia, et cetera, where 84 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 technical issues related to sampling, communication, hazard remediation, et cetera, are being discussed. We were notified about a year ago that they were entitled to data but we were no longer to be involved in meetings in which remedial action and proper testings are planned. This is unfortunate, not only for the staff, but for the children. It potentially sets up an adversarial position, which prompted our press conference at the Gompers School. When we worked cooperative in the past, we were able to address proper remedial actions and testings and communicate this to staffs and parents. This was particularly true of the asbestos problem. Managerial prerogative has no place where health, safety, and teaching and learning conditions are involved. We would appreciate it if you would strongly recommend to the School District that we once again be partners.
Thank you, Mr. Steinberg. Some of this is distressing in terms of the cooperation. And do you find that -- you heard the testimony of -- 85 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
-- the School District. Do you find that those steps have been taken? These are things that you point out, according to them, have been remediated.
No. I -- from the information that we have and from our consultant and from the EPA and the Health Department, it would be advantageous to the School District to involve all of these entities in planning the remediation and in developing the protocols that are recognized as viable, usable, and safe for children.
And that would be for our experts to determine. And that hasn't been done.
But the PFT's contention that the statements that are made as to the flushing and the remediation that has taken place and the effectiveness of that are not -- not what is being claimed to be.
Or is that a part of 86 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 a systemic plan?
It's really not systematically put in place. And so even those giving the report may not actually know what has occurred at those locations. There are -- remember, we did recommend onsite oversight and somebody responsible. I don't know what system they're using.
You said that in some cases. Do you have clear information and documented information that in cases where remediation and by -- has been replaced by another potentially lead-bearing fixture?
Yes. Our consultant collects all of that information. That's the type of information I will get to you.
Could you have your consultant get that and forward that to us?
Who is the person that's responsible for the onsite oversight? Is there someone per school? 87 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
That the School District would have to answer for you. I don't know whom they've designated, if they've designated anyone.
Do you have information as to places where supposedly the tap had been turned off but actually had not been turned off?
We have that -- any information named in here we have examples of, and I will have them write them up and give them to you.
Thank you, Jack. Commissioner? I'll be in touch with you and the other folks. (Witnesses come forward.) 88 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
I don't know whether I have told you how delighted I am that you are commissioner, I don't know if I've been able to say that to you publicly, but let me say that I am quite delighted to see you heading up the Health Department of this city and that I -- I was pleasantly surprised when I heard your name.
But I can tell you, like I said, I don't know if I have congratulated you publicly or -- but I am really very -- I think we're fortunate to have someone of your commitment and skill. And, again, I go back to the work commitment to the public to public health and as commissioner of the Health Department, that I feel very pleased to see you there.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Councilman Ortiz and members of the Joint Committee on Public Health and Human Services and Public Safety. I'm Dr. Walter Tsou, Commissioner of Public Health Campbell who is heads our lead program. And I'm here actually joined by Paula Campbell, who is our 89 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 medical director for our Lead Program, and Dick Tobin, who heads up that program. I'm here to present testimony concerning lead in the School District drinking water. Lead poisoning, as you know, poses a significant threat to the health of young children in most older cities in our country. The most common cause of lead poisoning in children is lead dust from old lead-based paint. However, lead can also be found in older plumbing systems. In Philadelphia, the lead content of the City's water is well within the U.S. EPA's requirements when it leaves the water treatment plants. Lead enters the water through older pipes, fixtures, and the solder used to connect them. And this is a concern relative to most buildings built before 1991, which includes essentially all of the 300 buildings operated by the School District. The EPA requires that lead -- I'm sorry, that drinking water outlets, especially water coolers in schools, be tested to ensure that lead levels in the water are below 20 parts per billion, a level at which adverse effects can 90 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 occur, particularly in children. In April of 1999, the EPA expressed concern that the School District of Philadelphia was out of compliance with these requirements. Discussions among the School District, the EPA, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, and the Philadelphia Department of Public Health, with the cooperation of the Water Department and the Law Department, lead to a December 1999 agreement on drinking water safety between the Department of Public Health and the School District. The School District embarked on an implementation of the agreement, retaining environmental consultants who performed sampling and establishing a system to accomplish a process of daily water system flushing. Nonetheless, subsequent inspections by the Department of Public Health and the EPA showed that the School District was out of compliance with certain parts of this agreement. In order to achieve full compliance and to better focus future efforts, the Philadelphia Department of Public Health, with guidance from 91 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 the EPA and the DEP, negotiated a consent order and agreement with the School District of Philadelphia. This consent order and agreement was signed by myself on October 18, 2000 and delineates specific steps and procedures to be taken and provides for penalties in the event of noncompliance.
Could you forward that order with all of the details to the chair?
Okay. The Department of Public Health is confident that the provisions of the consent order and agreement assure that the children are protected from unacceptable levels of lead in school water. As provided in the consent order and agreement, wherever there is any question about water safety, warnings will be posted, outlets taken out of service, and bottled water provided. In addition, the School District is 92 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 developing a plan to inform all parents and all staff of the dangers of lead poisoning and the results of the testing whenever test results of 5 parts per billion or greater are found in a 6 school's water, the School District will notify 7 the principal, who will share this information 8 with the faculty, school nurse, and parents. 9 With the inception of this project, the 10 School District's contractors have tested more 11 than 13,968 individual water outlets, and all 12 drinking water fountains that exceed standard have 13 been removed from service and bottled water is 14 being provided where needed. As agreed, the 15 School District is currently posting warning 16 notices at hand-washing sinks that exceed the 17 drinking water standard but are needed for hygiene 18 purposes. 19 The Department of Public Health is 20 encouraged that the School District has made substantial progress in satisfying the terms of the new agreement and has, in fact, accelerated the testing schedule called for in the consent order. The cooperation of the School District's staff involved in testing and remediation is quite 93 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 noteworthy, and the personal attention given to this issue by the School Board President is exceptional. The Department of Public Health is confident that with the continued adherence to the terms of the consent order and agreement, the students, faculty and others who work in School District facilities will be provided with safe drinking water. Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony this afternoon.
Doctor, Councilwoman Miller just leaned over and said to me whether I had -- if I have -- I have kids in public schools and so does she, and she asked me if I had received at any time, at any time, if I had received at any time anything from the school that my kids attend about the water problem, if I had ever received anything from the school as to the requirements of what you're talking about or the EPA. And, as I told her, I have never received anything from the school. And neither has she, have you?
In fact, I think it's important that parents know what's going on. 94 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 Sometimes high school children won't bring flyers and information home. My daughter's in high school, but the problem's been going on for a while, and ten years ago she was in elementary school, but in her school, evidently, there is a problem, 'cause she just call me about another matter, and I asked her, was she familiar with these little water bottles? and she said yes, she sees people drinking them in class. So evidently, her school must be one of the schools that, you know, is having a problem, but I haven't received anything.
But I think, you know, one of the things that is disturbing about all of this is just the extent of the problem, Doctor, and how long it's been going on. You know, it might be that all of these test results that we got in which our kids fail is because they've been drinking the water. And I really, really am concerned because it's been such a long time. We -- the thing is that we have hearings here. We had a hearing ten years ago on this issue about school lead -- lead in the school 95 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 water and so on. And unless parents keep bringing it up to us, we do not follow that monitoring, but it's been going on for quite a while, and the remedial actions have only started very recently. And it really bothers me that the EPA had to ask for a search warrant to be able to test the water. I mean, that's really just incredible in this day and age that -- and that parent has materials that we don't have.
Well, I can only say I think the new leadership of the School District has taken this very seriously. I think there's been a true turnaround in terms of their compliance to many of the terms of the consent order. And we are actually now meeting every other week with members of the EPA, the School District, our own Health Department staff, and the DEP to talk about the technical aspects of this consent order, and were very pleased with that improved communication. We have the right now to enter any school and conduct our own inspections to make sure that they are in compliance. And we've actually -- you know, we have started doing all of 96 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 those things to assure the public and the members of the School District and the kids in the school, most importantly that, in fact, School District is in compliance with this agreement. Now, I can't speak for the past and I --
No, I don't expect you to, but I do expect that you will keep this Council informed, this committee informed as to what is the Health Department's role, what are you doing, what is the implementation, what are the results that are coming forward, and what has -- what has been the level of cooperation, and what has been the level of remediation that has taken place so that we have a sense that our kids, that when we send them out every morning, they are not suffering or being put into danger by the water that they may have available to them.
You have heard some of the stuff that has been said before and you are confident and I -- that will comfort me because, again, I -- you're confident that the activity 97 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 that is now being done by the School Board, the school system, the School District is answerable to the problem at hand.
I am confident. The larger question that you had raised earlier, and I think MJ alluded to is the issue of how much it's going to cost for the remediation so that when the kids go over and turn on the drinking fountains, they can be assured that the water, in fact, is lead-free or lead-safe. And that's going to be an expensive issue, and members of the School District do not have a formal estimate of that cost. I think it's going to be a long-term budget item for the School District.
I would like to get from you, if I may, your analysis -- or priority list of schools that need remediation and list them. I know that we have, what, we have 200-and-whatever schools that we have?
List them in order of priority, where the problem is greater, where the -- and down -- down that way so that we can have -- the Councilwoman here, she has found out 98 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 that her daughter is drinking plastic water, or water in plastic things. And as a parent, she should have known that that was taking place. She -- in fact, she probably did not need to have her kid come in and tell her that. A letter should have been sent out by the principal of the school saying, We have a problem here, we want to alert you that we're taking care of it, and your kids are not being poisoned. Not to say anything, but she is a councilwoman and she has a forum that is bigger than any other parent, and she has not been informed, and neither have I. And that's troublesome, because I have the ability of calling you guys in here and asking these questions. Generally, parents don't have that.
So I have to be able to use this to inform parents, and I want to be able to inform parents as much as I can of what it is that we are facing, because it is troublesome and it is dangerous. So if you can give me that.
How the process is 99 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 that you're setting up and accomplishing and implementing, and then a list of the terms in schools in terms of priority, and what it is that you believe needs to be done in order to achieve a safe, healthy environment for our kids. If you can have that and send it over to us, I would really appreciate it.
We'll make that a priority for our technical committee that meets on this exact issue, so --
And, you know, I guess I would assume that the 50 schools that are going to be the first 50 in the remediation plan, I guess it wouldn't necessarily have to coincide with the schools in terms of the priority order or it could, but we'd also like to know what those first 50 schools are and when the other plan -- some type of anticipated date of when the other schools will be phased in.
I remember 1985, Doctor, when we had a hearing here on lead paint. And we had a series of landlords that really were bad landlords in West Philly.
Slumlords. 100 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
Well, "slumlords," she called them. And we found that kids just picking at it and just putting it in, and that was hugely alarming because we found out that the extent of it in Philadelphia was huge. And we were able to begin with the Health Department and to begin dealing with some of that, and I think we've been quite successful. I don't think we've achieved total success, but we -- but we got -- we've come a huge long way. For this to happen -- for this to have been happening and now we know the thing that hits me is that this has been happening in the schools for so many years, and we don't know how many kids have been damaged by this. So many kids today are not being able to finish school, and it wasn't because they were dumb; it was because we poisoned them. And that's tragic when government has it in its hands the ability to fix things and it doesn't. And we're going to make sure that in the year 2000, we're going to fix this, and we're going to keep coming back to this Council until we 101 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 are sure that every school in this city doesn't have bottled water but has safe drinking water. Thank you, Commissioner.
We have our last panel. Vernard Johnson. Shelly Yanoff, Falaka Wright. (Witnesses come forward.)
You have heard today from the School District, the PFT, and the Water Department (sic). I'd like to hear your reactions because -- to what you heard. We don't want a restatement of the problem, but I'd like to hear what you want to see, what your reaction is to what you heard. Who wants to begin. Vernard?
Good afternoon. I'm Bill 25 Madeira, sitting in for Shelly Yanoff, from PCCY. 102 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 And we are the conveners of the Philadelphia Childhood Lead Poison Prevention Coalition. Ten years ago, as a result of some work concerning lead that we undertook, we cosponsored a conference on lead poisoning at the School District, and later this Council held hearings on the problems of lead, the silent epidemic. There has been much improvement in policies and practices as a result, and further improvement through the work of Vernard Johnson in calling attention to the problem in the Franklin Learning Center and many other communities. Nevertheless, the problem continues. As you have heard, lead causes permanent brain damage, non-remedial damage. It is the primary source of post-birth mental retardation. We are not here to review the devastating consequences of lead exposure, nor to speak to the elements in the consent agreement, nor to review history. But the idea that this issue was treated as a typical adversarial court suit between two advantaged parties instead of as a serious health hazard to the lives of non-advantaged children is of grave concern to 103 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 us. The major lead risks to children are to be found in our youngest children. That's when the brain is the most vulnerable. Therefore, we want to know: Were sites which house young children prioritized? Was the water in the Head Start and early childhood sites shut off and tested immediately? Is bottled water being brought into these sites? We urge that as a precautionary measure, this district not rely on the flush method in any of the schools built before '91 where very young children attend. We urge that bottled water be used in those sites henceforth. Were the schools with pregnant young women prioritized in this work? Was information about lead and water and the harm to pregnant woman and babies advertised in high schools? Were information sheets to parents and teens sent home, outlining steps to be taken? Clearly not. There are many such postures and 104 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 brochures available. Were they used? Were the teachers and the PFT Health and Welfare Fund staff provided information to assist and help monitor? It doesn't sound that way. Were they included in collaborative efforts? If the answer to any of these questions is no, we urge that it be changed. Schools with our youngest children or with pregnant young women must be provided safe water, and safety from lead must be prioritized. Parents and students must be provided fact sheets and information about the dangers and steps they can take for protection. We understand that lead is an extremely difficult problem to solve. It is expensive and difficult and requires more of an investment than any local government has available. We to have been working on it for years and we do see progress, much of it actively supported and lead by this Council, but there's so much more to do. At times, the problems of lead are like an onion. The more you peel, the more you cry, but not half as much as cry when you talk to a 105 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 child whose body and mind and future have been damaged because of lead poisoning. We urge you to cause there to be created an oversight committee of the teachers, parents and the school and City administrations to publicly and regularly report on progress. This isn't about lawsuits or assessment of who's right or wrong; it's about who's hurt. And as is too often the case, it's the children who bear the consequences of our neglect. We, therefore, urge the Council to stay on this case to protect children from further harm. Thank you.
In addition to the prepared testimony, I'd just like to say that what I've heard this afternoon seems almost overwhelming in the level of disagreements and intricacies of whatever it would take to solve the problem, and it would seem almost as though only by having ongoing hearings and ongoing monitoring of this problem is there any hope of it being solved permanently. And now I want to -- 106 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
This committee will just recess. It will not -- we will leave from here with a date certain for the next hearing so that we know what we need to have something in our hands. Vernard?
Yes. My name's Vernard Johnson, and I'm the Executive Director of Healthy Family Healthy Life, and I'm also the chairperson of the Philadelphia HealthyStart Community Consortium. And I'd just like to start out by saying we think that the issue around lead in public schools is far more widespread than just the water, and we believe that you need to continue to monitor the way encapsulated work has been done.
We certainly believe that it's more widespread than in the water, Councilman Ortiz. And to use the Franklin Learning Center as an example --
That's right. 107 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
-- when that school -- when the officials of the School District finally realized that there was a serious problem with dust in the building, we did move towards encapsulation. But we're concerned right now about the quality of the maintenance that's taking place on a daily basis. And unless there's been some improvement since '96, we don't believe that the maintenance staff of the School District has had the proper training that will allow them to maintain all the encapsulation work that has taken place. And we also want to remind the Councilman, with all due respect, that in '96, we were told that there would be a new Franklin Learning Center in a short while, and we're going into 2001. So I just want to remind you of that. I'd also like to remind you further that at that time, the union that sat here today was very much in opposition to the advocacy work that was taking place by parents and, at that time, students of the Franklin Learning Center. So it's in that vein that we look at this screening for young children for lead poisoning 108 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 that's produced by the Center of Disease Control in 1997. It really talks about statewide efforts but I think we can look at localizing it. And what they're suggesting is that State health officials should form an advisory committee to develop a statewide plan -- we're calling for local plan. The committee should include child health-care providers as well as representatives from local health departments, managed care organizations, Medicaid private insurance organizations, and the community. And it seems to me that when the union was speaking, and it seems to me that even when Health Commissioner, who I have respect for, but that when he was speaking about this task force, that the big piece that was left out, sir, was the community, was the parents.
And the parent community. And so we're calling for an advisory committee that's made up of all of those entities and whatever other entities that they have but also includes the parent community. 109 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
Thank you, sir. We've asked the Health Commissioner in a meeting that the Philadelphia Network for the Public Health had with him back in -- several weeks ago, I'll say it that way. We've asked the commissioner to work with the community in developing public service announcements, educational brochures, educational curriculum, whatever is proper, to work with us, to develop those kind of resources that we could reach out into the community with. We don't think that this is just a School District problem, but we think that the Health Department of this town has a public responsibility to make families, communities, children, parents aware of the dangers of lead poison, be it comes through water, be it comes through soil, be it comes through the dust in their home. And I'd like to say this, sir, is that I've talked to Dick Tobin about this that I'm getting ready to say now -- as a matter of fact, 110 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 it was Dick who trained myself and people from my organization around this whole question about lead. And I'd just like to say that years ago, we thought that children were eating paint chips.
And we thought that's how they were getting exposed and poisoned. More recently, we realized that the breathing in of lead dust is dangerous. We think that the lead in soil is also a concern. We're concerned about houses and other properties being torn down in this town without the proper inspections and then left to lay while children play in it and then they play in the dust.
Think of the blight program going on, tearing down all of those houses across the City.
To get to the water, I would suggest that Council not only consider calling the EPA Safe Drinking Water Hotline where -- and that number is 1-800 426-4791 -- because we're disagreeing at this point on what is safe and what is not safe to drink. I got information from that hotline, a representative that suggested 111 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 that 0.015 milligrams per liter of water, anything above that is not safe. And we also got that to 4 14 parts per billion was not safe, and that at 15 5 parts per billion, we should not be drinking the water. Now, the Health Department, we don't agree on -- yes, sir?
In the next hearing that we have, we're going to make sure that the regional director of the EPA is here.
So I just wanted to say -- and not to be in conflict with people from the Health Department, who, I believe, are trying to do a good job, but I just want to say that we've moved from eating the chips to realizing it's dust, that we now need to look at if it's or if 20 it's 15. You know, our position is zero tolerance, and so any amount of lead in the blood for us is too much, so I'm not going to quibble about if it's 15 or if it's 20, but we need to be looking at that. Monitoring is a question for us. You 112 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 know, I've never seen a chair be able to hold down the button on a drinking fountain. I just don't know how you do that.
I figured -- you know, I'm not an engineer, but I don't know how you take a chair and put it on that button and expect it to be held down are. Nor do I know how you get enough pressure on that button with duct tape or any other kind of tape that will allow that fountain to run. We are in the school every day. I invite you to go to Tilden Middle School.
I invite you to go to Pattison Elementary School. I just invite you to go talk to the staff people there. I invite you to go to the cafeteria at Tilden where students are buying bottled water, that -- buying bottled water at $1 a bottle. So this 4 ounces of water, 113 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 in my opinion, and evidently in Estelle Richman's opinion, who we met with last week around this issue, if children are supposed to have eight glasses of water a day --
-- then the School District has some responsibility to provide them with whatever the equivalent is. How do you move toward that eight glasses? They have the responsibility to provide them with that. And with a four-ounce Dixie cup or a four-ounce fruit cup, we're not moving it that way. Somebody's making money, somebody's making money. And so I'll leave it that way. Monitoring. We can't leave it to them to monitor themselves, Councilman Ortiz.
From the words of Commissioner Richman, they just hired -- whatever "just" means -- one person to work for the Health Department to monitor 269 schools, person.
And we're suggesting to 114 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 you, Councilman, that one person cannot monitor at o'clock in the morning or o'clock in the 4 morning or 6 o'clock probably more than one or two 5 schools. And so monitoring is a concern. Since this has been going on for ten years, we're calling for the universal testing of all students. So a sense of -- and we think that the Health Department and the City of Philadelphia should bear the cost. Since Councilwoman Miller suggested that her child was in elementary school ten years ago and is now in high school, we may now have to do some bone tests, not blood tests. But we submit to you that children who have been in these schools, that the Health Department in this town has a responsibility to cry out to those families, however they find them, and we're willing to sit with them. We have a nurse, we have a medical doctor, the medical Dr. Tsou, who's willing to sit with them and help design and develop a public service approach that every parent in this town and every young adult now, 18, 19, 20 years old who were in those schools back then should be about the business of going and having themselves tested and their 115 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 unborn child tested or their new baby tested. That's how we feel. And -- and I'm winding down. You know, we should be developing a plan that this cross -- that this effort, and we think that we got good people in Philadelphia. We don't have to go to Boston all the time -- there's something going on with Boston and Philly. But anyway, we don't have to always go to Boston to find out what's going on. We think that we --
I want to know what's going on in Philadelphia; I don't want to go to Boston.
We think that a curriculum needs to be designed that cuts across whatever it is that they're teaching in the schools, so that if it's a health curriculum, if it's a science curriculum, we think that their plans should include something that allows the teacher to stand in front of students and talk about how important it is to wash your hands every day of the week. So we're also calling on the School District to allow students, before they eat, to wash their hands. The younger the 116 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 student, the more important, but a good hand-washing, a vigorous hand-washing program is something that we're calling on. And I'll leave it that way. I think I made point best, you know, as best I can make it now. And what I'd like to do is say this. And there's a parent with me, Kelly Shepherd, Miss Kelly Shepherd. We have too many children who are living in homes that have this problem. And when the blood level goes micrograms, I think it is, 13 of lead per deciliter of blood and a child is 14 detected, then the Health Department goes out to 15 that home and works with that parent. And they do a good job of doing whatever they do, they do a good job at. Works with that parent, to show that parent how to take care of that problem, small problems, how to take care of that problem. If that problem's taken care of, the blood level should go down, it shouldn't be going up. And if it's going up, the Health Department wants to know where your children are hanging out. If they're hanging with grandmom, does grandmom have the problem? If they're hanging on 117 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 the lot, is there a problem on the lot, are they a jumping on the mattresses, is that the problem? In Miss Shepherd's case, the only place that's different where her children go, the youngest child's blood level had been going down, the oldest child's going up. The only place that's different is that the oldest child is going to another school than the younger child. So, you know, she can speak on that if you'll allow her, but the only thing I'm saying is that -- we got to stop denying. And I'll say this to you, with all candor, is that the School District has been covering and covering and covering over this. I think that when they try to do it right, they find themselves covering. If you remember, they denied that there was a problem at the Franklin Learning Center and that we had to come to this Council with Council President-then Street, who's now the mayor, who appropriated some dollars that allowed us to go out hire an independent consultant that came from out there in Eddiestone, out in the (unintelligible) property, who came in and found out that the levels of lead in the building far 118 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 exceeded anything that HUD would accept on top of lockers, in crawl spaces. So the School District, Well, why you worried about on top of lockers? Well, because kids throw their book bags on top of lockers, and when they pull them down, the dust falls over their head. So this environmental office of this School district has a tendency to cover over the fact. And so we believe that this Council has a responsibility, that the City of Philadelphia has a responsibility to monitor them. And then I'll finish by saying this, is that if you're going to give $45 million -- let me back off and say it this way, that we do not believe that this health department comes in front of this City Council ever in the ten years that we've been doing health care in this town and asked for an adequate amount of funding, we don't believe it. That if you ask Dick Tobin -- and we haven't talked about this, but if you ask Dick Tobin, who pays for the majority of his staff's salaries, it's other than the City of Philadelphia, it's probably HUD. If you ask -- if you go to any one of those departments inside the 119 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES.
000635 Health Department, the Office of Maternal and Child Health, if you look at their staff, and I'm just mentioning them 'cause I'm kind of familiar with them, they live on grants. If they don't get a grant, they can't function. They can't say something that their boss tell them not to, so I'm saying it: They need more money from this City Council. Now, if Council is going to give $45 million, million now, 20 million later, to 12 the Gas Works, understanding the character of the 13 gas company, understanding all of that debate that 14 went on here -- 15
Oh, lord. Well, if 18 you're going to give them 68, if you're going to 19 build two stadiums, if we're going to acquire the 20 land, then give this health department what they 21 need to operate. So if he -- not he, but if Dr. 22 Tsou needs more money to go out and monitor what's 23 going on in the schools -- and there's 24 Councilwoman Blackwell. Hi, Councilwoman 25 Blackwell. 120 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 And I just want to say this. People thought we were crazy for coming to this Council with lead, they thought we were crazy for coming here with the issue of Ritalin, and if it wasn't for Councilwoman Blackwell, you know, following us and finding out if we were telling the truth or not, they would label us as crazy. And I just want to say this Councilwoman Blackwell's, as I understand it, brother is in the city of Baltimore and he does work as it relates to children and lead.
I've known you since 1980 and I never thought you were crazy.
Well, you know, you represented me one time, you know? And all saying -- and I want to close with this -- is that we are all here for the kids, right? And for the school families. When we did the Franklin Learning Center piece, we were concerned about the teachers as we was concerned about the children, and we still are. And so I think that if this commissioner comes forward and says -- and the School District comes forward and says, We need a 121 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 few more dollars so that we can monitor this thing properly, then I think that Council can consider that.
And, you know, I think so. We have a law in the books -- and, Dr. Tsou, I think you should look at it. It was passed in 1989, 1990. Carol Rogers was here and it was a law that said that staffing levels and service levels at City health centers had to be maintained at a certain -- set at a certain level and if you go below that, the City, the Mayor and the Administration had to bring them up to those levels, and that was passed and signed by the Mayor. And that has not been taken off the books, so the Administration has a responsibility, has a responsibility to come before this Council and ask for appropriations to maintain the health centers at the levels set within those levels of services that are in that legislation. Miss -- who's next?
Miss Kelly, but can I say -- I've just been told that the School District incurring the costs for the one person that we 122 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 talked about. Now, we got a broke school district, so somewhere along the line, we need to -- Dr. Tsou need to be (inaudible).
And let me say this, really, is that this health department is responsible for the care -- let me back up. Private schools are public schools. We got a widespread problem there that we're not even looking at.
Parochial schools -- they're our children too. They got old buildings too. 'Cause they have Catholic old school buildings don't mean they immune to the drinking water. We got a serious problem. Thanks, Councilman.
Microphone closer, 123 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 please.
Good evening. My name is Kelly Shepherd. I'm here as the parent of four children that are in the school system. My youngest son Joshua, in June of '99, his lead level was at 21, at which time the City came out to my home and they inspected. Upon Joshua entering the school system in September, his level was down to 14. My oldest son, which is 11 years old, I was told that I didn't have to have him tested as well as my other two children that are 9 and 10, at which time James had a physical August the 28th of this year, and his lead was fine. Upon having another -- well, more blood work done in October of this year, the doctor called me with some concerns because his lead level was up to 13.4 at this point. I spoke to Vernard about it because I had some concerns only because I was told that my older kids didn't have to be tested. So now I'm going through the process of having the other children tested, and I was kind of upset because James was still drinking water in his school, and 124 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 no bottled water was given out.
This is Beeber Middle School. In reading an article in the paper, Beeber --
Could board take note of that, please, the board representatives?
I read the article in the Sunday Inquirer, which stated that at Beeber, their testing had been done, and out of 127 outlets, 16, which is equal to 13 percent of the fountains, tested for 20 ppb. I called the school and I spoke with the principal and I asked her if any other faucets had been cut off or anything and she said no. I also got in touch with some of the parents at the school for the Home and School meeting, and they knew nothing about it. I called my elementary school, Overbrook Elementary, where my other children, that Home and School; they knew nothing about it. Nothing is going out, no one knows anything. 125 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 I am now buying about four cases of water so that I can provide my children with water so they can have water during the day. Sometimes -- well, before this happened, my son James, I told him he could not drink the water, and that was that. And he said, Well, if I don't buy anything from out the machine, I don't have anything to drink. Sometimes the milk is sour, what am I supposed to do? So now I provide all my children with bottles of water, eight ounces, I give them two each, and that's what they have to drink. And then sitting here today and in listening to everything that's being said, I think that I'll just continue that because I don't know who to believe or what to believe.
Well, we're trying to find out who to believe, but let me tell you something, we're going to get down to the bottom of it. Beeber, you said?
Beeber Wynnefield? 126 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
We have no numbers on Beeber Wynnefield as to a date of pre-sampling, inspection date of sampling, sample report, we have nothing on Beeber Wynnefield. So I guess Beeber Wynnefield was not tested. I think -- is there somebody in the School District that can explain that? Because I have here a chart from your from your district provided to me by the Philadelphia School District -- oh, by the EPA, sorry, "Lead in Drinking Water Sample Results," and I have Beeber, Beeber Wynnefield. And I have -- for other schools, I have the date of the pre-sampling, the date of the sampling, the sample report, number of outlets sampled, number of outlets exceeding ppbs. 18 Is there anybody there? 19
Right. 127 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635 STENOGRAPHER: I'm sorry, what was the name?
Assistant general counsel. I have the October test results that will be going to the EPA -- that went to the EPA today, actually mailed out. And it says here for Beeber Junior -- they call it "Beeber Junior High," which may be -- but it's the same school.
Yes. It was -- the pre-sampling inspection was June 30, 2000. What's known as the "initial sampling event" occurred on July 28, 2000. The initial sampling event data was received --
Beeber and Beeber Wynnefield. Well. . . Well, then I cannot help you because I do not have the results for Beeber annex, in which case, I will -- 128 11/20/00 PUB. HEALTH AND SAFETY, RES. 000635
Right. And it's not the annex. The annex is further down. I'm talking about the main school on 58th and Malvern.
Okay, I don't have it by date, but I will check the results to make sure that we have done all -- (Addressing colleagues) We have done that school, correct?