Okay. With that, who do we have, Mr. Glass? Is that it?
Mr. Chairman, that was our final witness for this panel and there are no other members seeking to be recognized at this time.
Are there any other people wishing to testify on this resolution that we have not heard from? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will thank the people who testified today. The insight is useful and will be utilized as we go forward developing a strategy to address our 911 scenario and department within the City of Philadelphia, so thank you for your testimony. And we will now proceed with Bill No. 230510. Mr. Glass, will you read again the title of that bill.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Bill No. 230510, amending Chapter 16 10-600 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Public Spaces, Prohibited Conduct," by prohibiting certain official coverings from being worn in certain spaces, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you, Mr. Glass. I'd like to recognize the author of this bill, Member Phillips for remarks.
Good morning -- good afternoon now actually. Thank you, Chairman and members of the Committee on Public Safety and viewing members of the public. Today you will hear Bill No. 8 230510, which I introduced to ban individuals from wearing ski masks in public spaces. This bill and amendment to it which this Committee will vote on was written in lockset with the Administration and Law Department. We are secure and certain that this ban has legality. And to repeat, we're certain that this bill has legality. And I will remind Committee members that this ban is not unprecedented in many states and municipalities. It is not unorthodox, including this is occurring in Virginia, West Virginia, Florida, South Carolina and Georgia. And before the pandemic, New York City and the District of Columbia. There has been misinformation about what this bill does so just let me be clear. The ski mask bill covers school buildings, recreation centers, daycares, parks, City-owned buildings and all modes of public transportation. Additionally, there are exceptions for holiday costumes, religious garments, wearing ski masks for your job or trade, theatrical productions, winter sports and those lawfully engaged in First Amendment activities. As we all know, casually wearing ski masks hinders law enforcement from identifying dangerous criminals. So we recall that in September 2022 five mass individuals, some or all of whom were ski masks shot into a crowd of people attending the junior-varsity football scrimmage, killing a 14-year-old and injuring four others. In May 2023, a shooter wearing a ski mask shot and killed a 15-year-old high school student on a public bus in July 2023. In July of 2023, an attacker dressed in a ski mask body armor killed five people and injured two children in Kingsessing. It must end. We cannot allow dangerous criminals to evade detection by wearing ski masks in public spaces, not to mention intimidate the neighbors each of us were elected to serve. I would like to note for the Committee that this bill has received widespread support among our Council colleagues with 10 Councilmembers listed as co-sponsors. With these facts and context and also in mind, I look forward to having a productive hearing and seeing the passage of this bill so it can reach the Council floor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you so much, Member Phillips, for your attention to this issue. Are there any other members of this Committee who would like to speak on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, Mr. Glass, can you read the names of the first panel to testify on this bill.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. Our first witness will be Deputy Commissioner Francis Healy.
Deputy Commissioner, welcome. Thank you for your patience. You know what to do. Please state your name for the record and begin your testimony. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER HEALY: Thank you, sir. Good morning, Chairperson Jones, Vice-Chair Johnson and other members of the Committee on Public Safety. My name as mentioned is Fran Healy. I'm the Deputy Commissioner in the Philadelphia Police Department now and I'm responsible for both the Offices of Legal Affairs and Professional Responsibility. First on behalf of Commissioner Johnson or I'm sorry, Commissioner Stanford, I apologize, thank you for allowing the Philadelphia Police Department the opportunity to voice its opinion on Bill No. 230510 amending City Code 10-613. For a myriad of reasons, COVID-19 seriously impacted the policing profession across the country and for that matter across the world. However, the mask mandate was incredibly troubling from the law enforcement perspective. There was a time not so long ago when any average police officer would see a person donning a mask before entering a convenience store or a bank and they would believe a robbery was about to occur. I'm certain the clerks felt that way as well when encountering masked individuals. However, the pandemic changed that mindset where people were actually more fearful of people without masks than with masks. This complicated policing as you can imagine. But as I mentioned, this is not just Philadelphia across the world. Criminals quickly learn benefits of masks, especially when everyone was wearing one. The one thing criminals hate the most is being visible. Obscurity is their mantra and the mask mandates made it easy for criminals everywhere. Pandemic's over and we're getting somewhat back to normal. But many people, especially those with compromised immune systems or other health issues still utilize medical masks. Nonetheless, criminals have continued using masks to avoid capture and it remains problematic. So the department fully supports the intent and rationale behind this ordinance, and we thank the Councilmember, which is the purpose which is to combat the use of masks by criminals to evade arrest at prosecution. Due to the issues I mentioned regarding individuals with medical concerns, an outright mask ban would be problematic. So the department appreciates the narrow scope of this ordinance, just ski masks and balaclavas. These types of face coverings are not usually used by individuals for medical purposes, and we think it's a reasonable balance between the right of persons to wear medical masks and law enforcement need to identify criminals. I will say the enforcement can be complicated. It's really going to be a little difficult with the exceptions, but the department is incredibly grateful to City Council for being proactive and responsive to the concerns of law enforcement in its efforts to combat crime throughout the City. This concludes my testimony. I'd be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you so much, Deputy Commissioner, and thank you for your continued service in law enforcement in our City. Are there any questions for the Deputy Commissioner? Member Phillips.
Mr. Chairman, Councilmember Lozada would like to be recognized.
Deputy Commissioner, thank you so much for your testimony. My question is if this were to become a law, if we passed this, how enforceable would this type of a ban be? You know, we're living in a time right now where certain policies are put in place. We think that they're great policies. We think they're excellent for public safety. And then when we operationalize them, they end up being a flop or they become problematic or the courts don't want to enforce, the District Attorney doesn't want to do something. So how is this -- what's the chances of something like this being enforced? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER HEALY: Well, the issue of enforcement and being effective in crime is incredibly important to understand the distinction. This allows the police officer actually to intervene when they see someone wearing these masks. Now, in essence are you really going to cite them for the mask all the time, possibly not. But that's really not necessarily the value of the ordinance. The ordinance gives the officers the legal authority to intervene, to hopefully intervene before something bad happens. If during the course of the investigation it's somebody just wearing a ski mask, are we going to cite every person. The answer to that question is no. But the issue is having the ability to stop the individuals because we are scrutinized very heavily on, you know, who we stop. When we stop them, we have to have reasonable suspicion of criminal activity or violation. And that's really -- and I thank the Councilmember for this. This gives us the authority to do a little more. Are we going to cite people? I don't think that was ever the purpose to cite everyone wearing a mask. It's for the ability for the police officers to take that proactive step and this will help us. I mean, the code violations are a great tool quite frankly to law enforcement. And I'll be very honest, in 2016 when the -- I hate to use the word decriminalize, but when Mayor Kenney kind of decriminalized a lot of the summary offenses at the state level into the code violation, there's a lot of people, myself included in law enforcement, that were a little skeptical. But in retrospect, we found out that they're incredibly useful because they allow us to do our job, allow us to get in and do what we have to do, put hands on people if we have to. But it allows us to intervene, but also there's no backend consequences for a lot of people. So the whole issue of criminalizing some low-level behavior has kind of been taken away, so it's actually kind of a win-win. We see this specifically when we have large crowds and disturbances, but we've seen for the RN -- or I'm sorry, for the DNC, we were able to do what we need to do, clear scenes, clear people, but there was no lasting impact on their lives, so it was a win-win, which was diametrically opposed to what happened in 2000, the 2000 RNC. We didn't have that option. We had to arrest people. And so, there was a lot of lawsuits, there was a lot of money spent and there was a lot of ugliness that now the CVN actually has prevented, so it's been a real win for us to have that as I guess in our arsenal. So I appreciate Councilmember Phillips providing this. It will give us a tool to intervene and hopefully stop some criminal activity from happening. But I don't think we're necessarily going to be overly citing people for wearing a ski mask, but it allows my officers to take some proactive action. Like I said, every stop that we make has to be documented, fill out the report, it's checked out by the ACLU folks. So this gives us the lawful authority to do that in these cases and hopefully intervene and stop a crime from happening. I hope I answered your question. You probably asked me --
Yes. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER HEALY: -- how to make a watch and I told you how to make a watch.
Yes, it does. It does, it actually does. And I mean, I want to be clear. I'm 100 percent supportive of what Councilmember Phillips is doing here. You know, there's just a lot of frustration. When you talk to different officers about different policies that are put in place, that at the end ultimately end up being a waste of time to them. And so, what I don't want to do is add to that frustration but allow for my colleagues and our viewers, right, and the residents of the City of Philadelphia to understand what the purpose of this is and how this tool actually helps and supports your officers. So thank you for that explanation. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER HEALY: Thank you.
Thank you, Member Lozada. Real quick, I want to applaud the author of this bill for the courageous step to draw the distinction from a massive mask ban to particular areas where this kind of mask would be kind of scrutinized and create probable cause. It's a good balance to not overstigmatize young people but enough of a balance to create probable cause. I remember -- as a young person you won't remember this, Member Phillips. A lot of guys in my generation used to walk with these industrial screwdrivers, these thick screwdrivers in the back of their pocket. Now, either, A, they were going to go fix their bikes or, B, they were getting ready to break in a house and not knowing that that was considered at the time a burglary tool and that cops had the ability to stop us and question where's your bike you're fixing or we want to stop you from doing what you might have in mind. And it is a delicate, tight rope walk that we do in order to try to keep reasonably us from being prejudicial, stereotypical and keeping the public safe. So thank you for your courage in this regard. Any other questions, Mr. Glass?
Yeah. My statement is again I want to thank Councilmember Phillips for the balance, but I also -- and I thought about how we need all the tools on the table in terms of law enforcement and protecting people around the issue, specifically gun violence, right. And as an elected official, I'm probably in a unique perspective and probably not more than other folks, but I still pretty much have my ear to the streets, right, as a Councilperson. And I know firsthand, folks telling me, at least two years ago that one of the key reasons why we aren't wrapping our arms around the gun violence issue, this is from the streets, not somebody in academic towers at Penn or Drexel. This is like actually people that are on the ground living day-to-day either in the lifestyle or know people close to the lifestyle what's going on in the streets. And they said, well, Councilman, I know you're an elected official or as they say, Yat, I know you elected, but this is what we know that's going on in the streets regarding the homicides and the shootings and how the masks are playing a critical role, and people just pretty much doing brazen homicides knowing that if you only can see my eyes, right, pretty much it's going to be a tough time for you to solve their homicide based upon you having to have identified the actual culprit. And so, hopefully this will be a key tool to help us. And I also want to -- I'd like to say to Francis Healy, thank you also though for saying, listen, we're not trying to overcriminalize and just be going after individuals just for the sake of going after them. This will just allow us if need be with probable cause to address the situation. And so, I just want to state that for the record and thank Member Phillips for his leadership around a very, very critically important issue. Thank you.
Thank you, Chairman Jones. Thank you, Vice-Chair Johnson.
And let me -- I have one small part I want to wrap up with. Because there would be some critics that will say, well, this is not going to stop gun violence, right. And I just want to say for the record as a body over the last few years we have invested more than $100-plus million, right, in rather it's violence prevention initiatives, rather it's making sure that we have a mental health component when the police respond to issues, making sure that boots-on- the-ground organizations have funding. And so, we've always taken a comprehensive approach. But we must not shy away recognizing that the law enforcement is a part of how we address public safety here in the City of Philadelphia, so that's another tool that we have to address and we can't shy away from it. So to Francis Healy, thank you always for your leadership and stepping up to the plate and making sure there is a balanced approach with the things we're working on here in City Council around public safety. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Member Johnson or Yat, as they call you. I frequent a barbershop where they talked about this issue as well, and I found out there was a game that some of the young boys used to play and particularly victimizing older gentlemen where they would run up on them and pull down what is called pooh shiesty and try to scare them. They wouldn't rob them, but they were trying to see if they were jumping. And one of the instances, Member Johnson, where it happened, you know, one of the old heads actually pulled a gun on the young boy thinking he was getting robbed, and they panicked and ran. But I point out the fact that that's not a a game that should be played. It is very dangerous. And the regulation of where these masks should be worn and creating an issue where you can step to people for probable cause I think will go a long way like you said to deal with holistically the situation we face on our streets every day dealing with crime prevention. So thank you again, Member Phillips. Mr. Glass.
Mr. Chairman, Councilmember Harrity would like to be recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, I'd just like to thank Francis Healy for giving us the straight truth about how you will go about those things because it is a tool. I was so happy when Councilman Phillips put this bill in because I had put in a bill, not similar because mine they said was wildly unconstitutional. I wanted to ban them everywhere and I was so glad that one of my colleagues actually got into the nuances of it and made it work because I was told that it was not allowed to be done with the way I wanted it to be done. So I thank you for that and I thank you for your honesty, Commander Healy, for letting us know that, you know, listen, it's going to be at the cops' thing, it's a way of maybe questioning people to find out what's going on but if they're not doing anything, then just letting them go about their daily business, which doesn't do anything but tie up a little bit of their time. But to be safe, time is okay with being things -- so, you know, listen, I'm happy with Anthony Phillips' bill and this is a good bill and this gives you another tool to be able to do so. I was proud to support it then, so thank you both.
And I just want to say thank you to Councilman Harrity for co- introducing this and supporting this initiative as well.
Some of my best comments are when I'm on mute. Mr. Glass, who do we have next to testify?
Good afternoon. State your name for the record and please begin your testimony. Thank you for your patience.
My name is Cecil A. Hankins, Sr. I thank you for this opportunity to address this Committee on a subject that is of great concern to me, full-face covering or disguises to hide one's identity. So let me give you my personal experience. Just this summer while I'm walking my puppy Sam in the Barrett Playground in the Logan section of the City, three young men were dressed in all black with ski masks on in 90 degree weather. They parked their car on the basketball court area talking to young females. Immediately I could feel my adrenaline flowing to fight or flight. Of course, my puppy and I chose flight. Although the death rate from gunfire is reported as being less than that of the last two years, the Controller reported an increase in gun deaths for those less than years old. 10 As I give my testimony, I 11 cannot forget the young man 15 years 12 old shot to death on Barrett's 13 basketball courts years ago as well 14 as Nicholas and Elazada who was shot 15 to death by a group of young teens 16 wearing ski masks. Let us not forget 17 the other four teens who were wounded 18 by gunfire. The mental health of 19 these young youth will probably 20 resemble PTSD. 21 In fact, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia's data shows a 134 percentage increase in emergency room 24 mental health admittance of young children living in the vicinity of gun violence. I am a believer in the Constitution, but I also believe that there was a reason for amendments. To address issues relevant to the rights of law-abiding citizens to live in peace, this ban on ski masks will contribute to providing safe havens for children to grow without fear and intimidation of being shot to death by those who choose to wear ski masks to conceal who they are. I thank this Committee again.
Once again thank you. What strikes at me is 90 degree weather wearing a ski mask, and everybody has a constitutional right to do what they feel comfortable with fashion-wise, but this constitutes enough of a threat that we need to be taking the actions that we're taking. Mr. Glass, are there any others to testify?
Mr. Simms, thank you so much for your patience. Would you please state your name and begin your testimony. (No response.)
Mr. Chairman, it looks like Mr. Simms logged out and is not currently in the meeting so that was our final witness to testify.
Thank you so very much. This concludes the public hearing of the Committee on Public Safety dealing with Resolution 20 No. 230640 and Bill No. 230510. Thank you for your comments and please feel free to disconnect as we will begin to proceed with our public meeting to take actions on Bill No. 25 230510. Will give everyone a couple of minutes to disconnect. At the point where we have, Mr. Glass, will you please call the roll to bring to order our public meeting.
Okay. Thank you. I'm having some (inaudible) trouble. Thank you.
Present. A quorum is present for our public meeting. And with that, I recognize Vice-Chair Johnson for an amendment to Bill No. 230510.
Thank you, Mr. Glass. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I offer an amendment to Bill No. 23 230510. A copy of the amendment has been circulated to all members of the Committee. I move that the amendment be approved.
It has been properly moved and seconded that an amendment to Bill No. 230510 be approved. All those in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The amendment carries. I again recognize Vice-Chair Johnson for a motion on Bill No. 21 230510 as amended.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 230510 as amended be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at the next session of Council.
It has been appropriately moved and seconded that Bill No. 230510 as amended be moved from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit this bill's reading at our next session of Council. All those in favor? (Aye.)
The bill 21 passes out of Committee and will be recognized at our next session of Council. This concludes the business of the Committee on Public Safety and I thank all the Members for their endurance and patience. I want to thank Member Phillips and congratulate him on being passed out of Committee, his bill dealing with face coverings. And with that, that concludes our business for today.
See you everyone. (Hearing concluded at 12:57 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. __________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL