There's every3 hope for this bill being passed?4 COUNCILWOMAN MILLER:5 Absolutely. We first have to get it out6 of this Committee today and then -- you7 know, there's a whole process.8
That's why9 we're here, to help you get it out of10 Committee.11
And if we12 need your help with it, I'll call13 everybody. Okay. Thank you.14 (Applause.)15
Okay.16 Our next witness actually was my former17 colleague.18 You two guys weren't here then.19 I was here. He's my colleague. But20 anyway, Rick Mariano is our next witness,21 and thank you, Rick, for coming in. We22 really appreciate it.23
Thank you,24 Madam Councilwoman, Councilman Greenlee,25 140 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Councilman Curtis. My pleasure to be2 here. It seems I have a unique3 perspective on this bill, being a member4 of this august body and being a felon. I5 have an ankle bracelet on, a GPS ankle6 bracelet, if you all want to look at7 that. 8 This is a great bill. I9 commend you for doing this. I know I10 read in the paper that you're a lame11 duck. Donna, you were never a lame duck12 to anything. So don't believe anything13 they say. You're going to do the good14 job until it's over. And this is15 important. 16 Because I have a college degree. I have17 a trade. I met Presidents of the United18 States, Councilpeople, Mayors, Governors,19 Senators, and I can't get a job. Right20 now I'm Program Coordinator for Impact21 Services. 24 I can't get a job in my trade because the25 141 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 industry and the construction business is2 what it's doing right now, it's in a3 downturn. 6 Just call the Electrician's Union up on7 Spring Garden Street and request me8 personally. 10 It's hard. 11 And it's not hard for me. I'm blessed to12 be here. I'm blessed to be out of13 prison. I'm blessed to have this all14 behind me and a pure future in front of15 me. There's a lot of people in here --16 and I was listening to brother Mike in17 the jumpsuit. I wore one of them18 jumpsuits when I was in the "hole" in19 Fort Dix, and it's something you never20 forget. People can take your freedom21 away from you, but they can never take22 your spirit. And the spirit of this bill23 and bills like this just shows people24 like myself and all these other25 142 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 ex-offenders in this room today that2 there is people that care. Because3 that's the important thing. Because you4 start -- people tell you long enough5 you're nothing, people tell you long6 enough that you don't stand for anything,7 people tell you long enough it don't8 matter what you accomplish in your life9 because of that one mistake you made,10 it's pretty much over. And they beat you11 until the end. And I'm not talking about12 physical beating. Mental beatings. 16 And the one brother talked17 about being out 15 years. Look, I18 haven't been out five -- I've just been19 out five months. S. probation, then I'll have two years22 of paper after that. 3 But the one brother that talked4 about the depression, not getting a job,5 the very first job I got when I got out,6 I got it out of the union hall. 8 They sent me down the airport. That was9 a Friday. So like a dope, I called the10 job and I said, This is Rick Mariano,11 I'll be there on Monday. You got a12 phone? 17 He said, We don't have phones18 anymore. 19 Well, I'm not allowed to have a20 cell phone. 21 Monday before I left to get up22 to go work, I got a call, Don't go to23 that job. 2 I'm not a terrorist. You know,3 I never was. I didn't sell drugs. I'm4 not better than anybody else. I'm a5 felon. 9 Fortunately, I got another job, and that10 lasted about a month. 12 So it is one of those things13 that no matter what you do and no matter14 what these fellows behind me and these15 men and women, they're always going to be16 stuck with this. Maybe 10, 15 years down17 the line, it will be a little different18 and they'll be able to go in and not19 request or just not checking that box,20 because one of the responsibilities I21 have as a Program Coordinator for Impact22 Services are getting people jobs. And23 there's some good employees out there,24 like Brown's Shop N Bag. 2 And these are okay jobs. I mean, they're3 entry level, and these guys will tell4 you, we're glad to have any jobs. S. probation, I might be working at12 McDonald's, you know, or maybe Geno's13 Steaks or something like that. Who14 knows. 17 You know, the mistake is over,18 and the justice system in this country19 never wants you to live it down. And20 that's really not what I'm here for21 today.
That's in the future. I hope to22 be able to contribute to this in some way23 or some manner, and maybe this will be24 followed by some state initiatives or25 146 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 some federal initiatives. 4 I mean, I know how it is to sit there and5 hear people go on and on and on about6 things and you know what you're going to7 do already, but this is transparency that8 we fight for. 16 It's more trouble. I happen to know that17 a big employer in Philadelphia who makes18 something that people drink -- and I19 won't say their name, and it's not an20 alcoholic beverage -- they don't want to21 hire felons. They would like to, but22 they can't do it because of all the red23 tape. 2 So this kind of incentive, this3 kind of bill -- and I'm sure it will get4 out of your committee and go to the5 Council of the Whole -- is something,6 again, that's just a mental victory for7 people like myself and all these people8 that came before me and are coming after9 me. 10 So, again, I thank you. I11 won't take any more of your time. Thank12 you for having me back here. I promise I13 won't bother you again until there's14 another big issue, and then maybe I'll15 have the ankle bracelet off and you can16 all buy my book and maybe make me some17 money. 18 So thank you. God bless you,19 Councilman, Councilwoman. This is20 important. Thank you. You're good21 people. 25 148 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
Thank2 you. I want to thank Councilman Mariano3 for being here. We were proud to have4 served with him. And like the man said5 in the record, you know, second chances.6 Everybody -- we have to be about, as we7 live and are human beings, about second8 chances.9 You know, I was in a community10 meeting in Southwest last night and they11 were talking about unemployment, and they12 said everybody is not an ex-con, and I13 said, Well, there's no way you can go to14 a meeting with a whole group of people15 without not having a lot of them, because16 there's so many people overwhelmingly who17 have been locked up for one reason or18 another, including myself in the subway.19 I don't have a record, but I certainly20 was cuffed and put in a van and locked up21 for trying to help homeless people.22 And so I think that -- we thank23 you for coming and realize that we all24 have to be about second chances and about25 149 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 accepting the fact that we're all2 children under one God and that we have3 to do what we can to help one another.4 Thank you.5
Thank you.6 And, Councilwoman, I'm glad you spoke,7 because I actually forgot you were8 sitting there. Ms. Blackwell is --9 Councilwoman Blackwell is a very special10 person to me and a few of the people up11 here, and they know who they are. People12 in this body actually sent me money in13 prison, and the guys that have been in14 prison understand how that is. You think15 prison is a free ride. You got to buy16 your own underwear. You got to buy17 everything. And you don't realize that18 phone -- these people sent me money,19 Councilwoman Miller, Councilman Clarke,20 Councilman DiCicco, Kenney, all those21 people sent me money. Rizzo came to see22 me. It's important.23 And, you know, you're a good24 person. I won't embarrass you anymore,25 150 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 but you reminded me at one point -- my2 son is over there waiting for me. He3 works for the City. He told me, he said,4 Make sure you mention Michael Vick. So I5 have to mention Michael Vick. I wanted6 to see the Phillies go to the -- I mean,7 the Eagles go to the Super Bowl, because8 this man is my hero. Now, I can't throw9 a football 80 yards, and I doubt if10 anybody behind me here that's a felon can11 throw a football 80 yards. But remember12 how everybody was down on brother Mike?13 When I was in Lewisburg, nobody liked14 him. Then he starts winning, people15 start liking him.16 Well, give us a chance to win,17 too. Okay?18 So thank you. Thank you very19 much. God bless you, Councilwoman.20 (Applause.)21
Thank22 you. And, you know, I want to thank you.23 This Committee thanks you for coming in24 today to testify.25 151 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
And, you4 know, we're here. If there's anything we5 can do to help, we will. And thank you6 for sharing.7
So we17 have Malik, Wayne, Antoinette Jackson and18 Reginald Carter. I thought we had Steve19 Blackburn. Steve is not here.20
Madam21 Chair, may I say that I have to step out22 a moment, but I'll be back. These are23 people with whom we've worked for many,24 many years, and you know Malik gives the25 152 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Lucien E. Blackwell Guiding Light Awards2 out every year since Lu's passing, and3 these are people we love, we respect and4 people who do what they can to help5 ex-offenders and people in need.6 So thank you to Malik, the7 family, all of you. We thank you.8 And, Madam Chair, I'll be right9 back.10
Okay.11 Thank you.12 (Witness approached witness13 table.)14
Good15 afternoon. How you doing? Don't forget16 to pull the mike up close enough so we17 can hear you. Speak right into the mike,18 identify yourself and proceed.19
Okay. I'm not going20 to speak first, but I wanted to say good21 afternoon, Councilwoman Miller and22 Councilman Curtis Jones. My wife is23 going to speak first. So I'll pass the24 mike.25 153 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
Good8 morning -- I mean good afternoon. Sorry.9 My name is Antoinette Jackson-Aziz. I'm10 a mother, a wife, a behavior therapist, a11 drug and alcohol counselor, a neighbor, a12 member of the McCloud clan, and I also13 happen to be a person who made a mistake14 and am now a formerly incarcerated15 person. Fortunately, I put my list in16 priority, but when I walk in for a job,17 I'm a formerly incarcerated person first18 and all those other things come19 afterwards. So this ban the box is very20 important.21 I worked very hard to change my22 life. I came home on February 6th, 2003.23 I was enrolled full time at Community24 College by May 31st, 2003. I have five25 154 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 degrees, and I'm working on -- I'm2 completing a sixth degree in clinical and3 counseling psychology and searching for a4 school for a Ph.D. I'm also certified in5 drug and alcohol human service, and I6 just received a new certification from7 Villanova University in drug and alcohol.8 But the box still gets in my way. Right9 now I'm under-employed. I take what I10 can get. You know, we do make jokes11 about McDonald's, but that's a reality12 for us.13 I was told that if we do the14 right thing, that things would get15 better, but I don't see that happening.16 I think the ban the box is a start in the17 direction of a system that needs a total18 restructuring. So this is a no-brainer19 really.20 And I just want to point out21 one other thing. I'm a very brief22 talker. There was an article in the23 Daily News on February 18th of this year.24 It was on , but it talks about25 155 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 State Representative Tim Mahoney. Our2 new Governor decided that he wasn't going3 to open, I think it's, a fourth of three4 new prisons, and this State5 Representative said that the news was6 devastating for a region that has some of7 the state's highest poverty and8 unemployment rates and will not see the9 650 jobs that the $200 million prison was10 expected to create. I know that it's a11 no-brainer that most of the 650 jobs are12 created by people from Philadelphia, who13 are going to fill the prisons. Even14 though they didn't open that particular15 prison or it's on hold for now, they are16 building some other prisons, 2,000-bed17 prisons. So unless we can get gainful18 employment -- and $10 an hour is a start,19 but it's not gainful employment,20 especially for people who have a stack of21 degrees. My degrees are so not important22 to me anymore. It's just something that23 I have to do. I keep them in books.24 This is books of certificates,25 156 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 scholarships that I won, all kind of2 trainings that I've taken, so that I can3 prove to people that I get it, I get it.4 When I was getting processed in5 the prison, I was processing myself out6 of prison at the same time. I knew that7 I had to sit for four years, but I got8 it. I didn't want to be a part of that9 system.10 I've done everything that I11 can, and it's ridiculous that we have12 boxes and other ways of discriminating,13 but there's no doubt in my mind that as14 long as we have these 2,000-bed prisons15 and that people are depending on us to16 fill these prisons for their livelihood17 in Western Pennsylvania, that we're going18 to have an issue.19 So I thank you for banning the20 box, and I hope that you will continue21 with us in the struggle that's a whole22 lot deeper than the box.23 (Applause.)24
How are you? I'm25 157 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Reginald Carter, known also as Brother2 Abdullah. I want to commend you on the3 ban-the-box legislation that you're about4 to pass, I would imagine.5 After ten years and eight6 months, I was released from prison. I've7 been out here now maybe 28 years. I've8 been here a while. But finding9 employment was very difficult in10 reference to deciding whether or not I11 should tell people that I was actually12 incarcerated. I remember one particular13 occasion that I didn't tell an employer14 that I was incarcerated. My way of15 thinking was that maybe I can have a job16 until they find out, or maybe if they17 find out, they'll let me work anyway. As18 it turned out, when they found out, they19 simply dismissed me.20 I had no record of any child21 abuse, anything of that sort. I was a22 former gang member, wanna be robber. I23 had no success at that. But it leaves a24 mark on you when you can't get a job25 158 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 because you have to decide whether or not2 you want to say yes, I've been3 incarcerated. It's really a tremendous4 obstacle, and so it's been a difficult5 road to travel. I think that hadn't I6 established a moral code while7 incarcerated, I could have gone back to8 some of the other things that people9 decide to go back to, robbery and things10 of that sort, but I had established a11 moral code within myself throughout my12 incarceration.13 I wanted to say something to14 Darrell Clarke, because he's from one of15 my neighborhoods in Strawberry Mansion.16 Many years ago, Darrell Clarke, with his17 help, I was trained to be a roofer when18 they had gotten contracts in the19 Strawberry Mansion area to do20 construction. And so through the help of21 this body at that particular time, I22 was -- I learned a skill. In fact, I'm23 going to be doing something now in terms24 of creating businesses, and I want to25 159 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 serve really people that are coming out2 of incarceration.3 So I just want to commend you4 on this legislation. I could reiterate5 the things that you've heard from other6 people, the hurt that you go through, the7 disappointment knowing that there's a8 mark against you for life, you know, this9 particular time, but I won't go through10 all those things. Some people have said11 them eloquently. So I'm just going to12 commend you, and I want to say go for it.13 It's a great step in the right direction.14 It's something that will help to curve15 this genocidal and elitist practice,16 because that's really what it is. It's17 based on race so often and other have's18 and have not's.19 So I want to commend you.20 That's it.21
I also want to22 commend you. You know I care about you23 and everybody up there. Like my brother24 said, that it was so many other speakers25 160 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 that eloquently addressed the issue of2 why we're here. So I just wanted to just3 add something small to the fact that -- I4 look at the books. 5 It's blue. Her book pink, of course,6 right? 18 A lot of the barriers -- I was19 in Alabama last week with the founder of20 the person that did the ban the box in21 California, All of Us or None of Us,22 Dorsey Nunn. And they have -- their ban23 the box is in effect for the whole state24 of California, on the state level of ban25 161 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 the box, which was impressive. And2 there's other states too that have ban3 the box. Because of the ban-the-box4 activity here in Philadelphia, the City5 of Newark, New Jersey and Camden are also6 mirroring the ban-the-box efforts of7 Philadelphia across the bridge. 9 The ban the box means a lot to10 a person like me, a person like my wife,11 like Ali, because people do check when12 you go with a job application. They do13 look at that box before they look at14 anything else and form the opinion that15 you've been in trouble. 24 It's unfortunate that people --25 162 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 my wife made a statement about out West2 Pennsylvania. It's unfortunate people3 would come up off of other people's4 miseries and suffering and misjudgments5 and mistakes in life, but that's a real6 fact of life for them. I mean, he was7 adamant when he stood up on the House of8 Representative floor and said that he was9 really, really upset that they wasn't10 going to get 650 jobs because the people11 that come to those prisons won't live12 there. 16 My other thing I want to talk17 about is the violent offender. 19 A violent offender is a person that would20 do serious crime. A non-violent person21 hasn't done serious crime yet. So in my22 judgment and in my experiences, I think23 we should also focus a lot of our efforts24 on helping the violent offender when they25 163 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 get out to be employed. It's a2 no-brainer that if you have the people3 working in the community that have4 already showed you a tendency to get in5 trouble and they're employed, then I6 think your crime rates will drop7 overnight. And a lot of these8 communities, when you have people9 working, they'd be too tired to get in10 crime. They working a full shift and get11 a good pay on Friday. That mindset12 changes. That was really instrumental in13 my mindset change. But I worked before I14 went to jail and was involved in a lot of15 stuff. So, I mean, I'm not going to sit16 up here and even say what I did, because17 you know, Councilwoman Miller, what I'm18 involved in. 23 Councilman Greenlee, proud that you have24 taken this on, because it shows the25 164 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 fortitude of Councilmembers up there that2 they care about a population of people3 that they say are counted out when they4 come out of prison, they don't count, and5 it's really a disrespect to the whole6 City as a whole, because their7 families -- families have people in8 prison, and whatever they in prison for,9 they serve they time. When they come10 home and they have a new objective and11 goal to reenter society, that should12 never be held against them. 14 Even 30 years ago, people ask you about15 something 30 years ago, when you was a16 kid or something, right, and that's not17 right. 19 And then another thing I tell20 people, try to start your own business,21 right? 22 Entrepreneur, right? 25 165 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 But it's a whole lot of2 barriers that we facing, the3 certification boards. You know, thank4 God the PCB understands. I too just got5 a certificate for drug and alcohol from6 Villanova. My wife made me go with her7 to school.
I went, and I'm thankful for8 that, because I have another9 certification. I have a lot of10 certifications, but unlike Wally Smith, I11 been at a job. I worked for the reentry12 office. I been at a job, and I'm kind of13 like scared to even throw my resume in14 somebody's hand because of my record,15 which I been out of prison longer than16 any of them. I've been out 16 years17 without incident, walked off parole18 without incident, been out off parole19 since 2000. But I'm a rebel rouser. I20 like to make some noise. I'm not afraid21 of standing up and being right when I'm22 right. Should nobody be. But a lot of23 times the stigma of just being in prison24 causes a lot of people to not have the25 166 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 star power as Michael Vick. Somebody2 said he's a poster child for -- somebody3 just said that recently. I think it was4 Bill DiMaschio said that from the Prison5 Society. He's the poster child. There's6 way more poster childs than Michael Vick7 that live right in this city that been8 done that, that come back in the9 community and help the kids and help the10 police with the non-violence programs and11 with the anti-violence programs. And12 just to take somebody because of their13 status as an athlete -- I mean, when14 Michael Vick played his first game, we15 were out there protesting for him. 17 We got pets. We love our pets. But when18 they said Michael Vick shouldn't have a19 second chance because of his crime, we20 were right there at the Vet -- I said the21 Vet. I ain't been there --22
We were outside25 167 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 holding signs up for Michael Vick. So we2 activists. We're going to always do3 that. We're going to always go in the4 prison to try to say something positive5 to people that come out.6 And with that, I'm done. And I7 thank you, Councilman Jones, Councilwoman8 Miller, Councilman Greenlee, for your9 time. Thank you.10 (Applause.)11
And we12 want to thank you for coming in, too. I13 do remember you were out there with the14 signs.15 I want to talk to you later16 about the conference that you -- I think17 Wayne went, too. What was it, Alabama?18
Right.20 Would love to talk to you later about21 that.22
I just wanted to24 say that the point that Malik Aziz25 168 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 brought up about violent offenders is a2 very important point, because everybody3 is talking down on the violent offender.4 Well, you have a lot of violent5 offenders, and you have those offenders6 who have been violent, but you just don't7 know they've been violent. So we should8 really be looking at how we can bring9 people with violent offenses back into10 the community as an asset like we want to11 bring other people back into the12 community as assets rather than13 liabilities, because they have potential14 just as we all have.15 Thank you.16
Okay.17 Thank you.18 Wayne, you and Steve and who?19
Steve Blackburn,24 Wayne Jacobs.25 169 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
Whoever8 would like to start, just identify9 yourself for the record and proceed.10
Good afternoon.11 My name is Broderick Carroll and I just12 want to say the importance about banning13 the box. I'm just speaking from my14 experience.15 I had applied for life16 insurance and I was accepted for life17 insurance, and then the man said that18 somebody will be calling me two days19 later. Well, two days later I got a20 phone call, and on the other end of the21 phone, the man was asking me questions,22 you know, pertaining to life insurance.23 You know, questions like do you smoke, do24 you drink, do you use drugs. And, you25 170 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 know, all the answers was no. And then2 he said, Well, have you ever been locked3 up?4 I said, Yeah.5 He said, Are you on probation6 or parole?7 I said, Yes.8 He said, Hold on for a minute.9 And he came back to the phone and he10 said, Your application will not be11 accepted, we will be sending you your12 money back. And that was for life13 insurance.14 Just two months ago I went for15 a job interview to be a youth16 coordinator. Just last year I was17 working for a corporation as a youth18 coordinator. I have child abuse19 clearance. My resume speaks for itself20 as far as me being a youth coordinator, a21 mentor. I had certificates from United22 Way of graduating their classes as a23 youth mentor. So when I went for this24 job and I presented all my credentials to25 171 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 these people, they said, We like what we2 see. We like the things that you say to3 us, and you're hired. So she said --4 this is part of the interview. So she5 said, Well, go out there and fill out6 this -- fill this package out. You know,7 the package consists of the application,8 W-2 form and all that. So when I filled9 it out, you know, when I got to the box,10 I checked the box off, yes, I have been11 arrested. The lady came and got my12 package, went back into the office, came13 back out and said, Mr. Carroll, we can't14 hire you.15 And I was like, How? You just16 hired me like 20 minutes ago, you know,17 and came right back out and said we can't18 hire you. And I knew right then it was19 because of the box.20 So I do think it's very21 important that the legislation -- let22 this law go through where the box is23 actually tooken off of the applications,24 not just for employment, you know, the25 172 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 whole -- everything, you know.2
Well,3 there's some things we probably -- like4 insurance, we unfortunately don't have5 control of that. That's the state. But6 I understand what you're saying. It7 hurts you in a lot of ways. But right8 now we're dealing with -- the bill itself9 deals with employment. I understand what10 you're saying, yeah.11
Okay.14 Thank you.15 Whoever would like to go next,16 again, please identify yourself for the17 record.18
Good afternoon.19 My name is Dean Williams. I'm here from20 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I just21 acquired a position of Director of22 X Offenders for Community Empowerment,23 along with Wayne Jacobs here, and I just24 wanted to come here and show my support25 173 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 for this bill, and hopefully we'll be2 able to take this bill statewide. I'm3 also a convicted felon, and I look4 forward to the opportunity of expanding5 this as far as we can to make it go6 statewide.7
Sounds8 good. Thank you.9 Who else would like to testify?10 Mr. Jacobs, you're actually11 going to say something? I find that hard12 to believe. No; go ahead.13
Identify15 yourself. We all know you, but just for16 the record.17
My name is Wayne18 Jacobs. I'm the Co-Founder and Executive19 Director of X Offenders for Community20 Empowerment. My organization assists21 formerly convicted people with cleaning22 up their criminal background records, and23 the reason why they need their records24 cleaned up is because of the fact that25 174 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 they can't get past the box, and it2 doesn't make a difference.3 When we first started providing4 this service, we come to find out we had5 people that had convictions from 30 years6 ago, shoplifting, 18, went back to7 college, got Master's Degrees, went back8 to work, and as soon as the economy --9 the bottom fell out within the economy,10 now formerly convicted people are now11 facing a new reality, because 15, 2012 years ago if you was a formerly convicted13 person, you could easily get back into14 work. They were still hiring you.15 The reason why the employers16 stopped hiring formerly convicted people17 was because the state legislators took18 the insurance ability away from19 employers. This is the reason why20 employers are reluctant to hire, because21 they can't insure them, thanks to the22 State Representatives. They was the ones23 that took that away.24 And so we began to assist25 175 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 people with cleaning up their records,2 and to my surprise, that we found that3 here's people who have skills, ungodly,4 Master's Degrees, Ph.D.s and all that5 good stuff, and they cannot work at they6 skill level.7
Wayne,8 could you just explain what you mean by9 clean up your record?10
Yes. What we do11 is, we assist people with filing their12 pardon applications. We are the only13 group in the State of Pennsylvania that14 provide that service. So that's the15 reason why we got Dean here in16 Pittsburgh, to assist us in that area.17 That's one of the primary things we do.18 We help clean up formerly convicted19 people criminal background records20 through the pardon and expungement21 process as well.22 But I just want to say this, is23 that when we look at this box, this box24 is so far reaching, that the box do not25 176 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 have an ending, and we need for it to2 have an ending. We need for City Council3 to pass it to kill the box here so we4 could take this show on the road to5 Pittsburgh, Delaware County, all over the6 state so we can be able to get them 1.47 million formerly convicted people back to8 work.9
I don't14 want to be presumptuous, but I think you15 got us on this one. I think you got our16 votes on this one.17 Sir, you want to testify,18 please. Please identify yourself.19
Good afternoon.20 My name is Steve Blackburn. I am the21 President and Co-Founder of X Offenders22 for Community Empowerment. Wayne is my23 colleague here.24 Councilman Jones, Councilman25 177 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Greenlee, I just want to address the2 issue. I am a formerly convicted. My3 crime happened back in 1975. I've been4 able to get a Master's Degree in social5 work, and fortunately I'm working right6 now. And I just want to share my7 experience, how I've been able to do that8 given my background and that relation to9 the ban the box.10 I operated under the radar for11 about 15 years basically working in the12 field that most formerly convicted could13 not work in, because nobody knew, and14 those that knew didn't have a problem15 with it. But I was able to establish a16 track record and a reputation for service17 and professionalism that when the issue18 came up where I had to go to another19 employer and I already had a relationship20 established, they knew about my work.21 And that's the whole thing about the ban22 the box. This will not just allow23 everybody to be employed just because the24 box is not there. Certain employers will25 178 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 be able to do background checks and if2 certain jobs, they have prohibitions who3 can work in certain jobs, and that4 probably won't change until we address5 this on another level also. But it will6 allow an applicant to basically7 demonstrate who they are and what their8 skill level is and not let the decision9 of who to hire or not to hire just be10 based on them checking that box. So it11 will give people the opportunity to12 demonstrate who they are professionally,13 show their track record.14 One of my employees, I told15 him, I said -- when I was doing the16 application, I said, I got to talk to17 you, man. I said, I got a conviction.18 He said, Well, Steve, I've been19 knowing you 15 years. I know it has to20 be old.21 I said, Yeah, it's old, but you22 better look at it because it may be an23 issue, you know.24 But I had that relationship25 179 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 already, where people gave me the benefit2 of the doubt. It wasn't just the box3 that determined who I was. I wasn't4 described by just how I checked that box.5 I had already had the opportunity to6 establish who I was as a professional in7 my field. And that's what we want this8 ban the box to do, to get that person the9 opportunity to show who they are, not10 what happened 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 years11 ago.12 Thank you.13
Thank14 you. Like you say, it's about15 opportunity. We definitely agree.16 Councilman Jones.17
Thank you,18 Mr. Chairman.19 One of the best parts of this20 particular job is that you get to listen21 to people that happen to be in different22 subject matters experts, so you can23 benefit from their years, decades of24 knowledge. Wayne is one who does not25 180 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 miss an opportunity to educate all of us2 in the hallway, in our office. So I'm3 going to take advantage of this on the4 record to up my cue on some matters.5 You mentioned -- and anyone can6 answer this -- that the insurance issue7 prohibited a lot of companies from8 considering it. What happens to their9 insurance? What do risk managers do in10 that regard to -- and why is the idea of11 an ex-offender prohibitive for12 insurances?13
See, before they14 passed the Brady Law, before they passed15 the Brady Law for background checks, the16 box really didn't mean nothing. Okay?17 But after they passed the Brady Law in18 terms of criminal background checks for19 people who want to buy guns, right, this20 is where it all started from -- it21 started from that particular end, and22 what happened was, they had to find a way23 to stop employers from employing people.24 They had to find a way to stop employers25 181 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 from hiring formerly convicted people.2 So what they did was, they took the3 ability of those companies to insure4 those workers. This is what they did.5
When you say6 insure the workers, do you mean insure7 the business?8
That's working at13 the business.14 You know, whenever you get15 hired by an employer, you are16 automatically insured by that employer to17 do that job. You know what I mean?18 Let's just say you're doing -- you work19 as a receptionist, right? And somebody20 come in and you as the receptionist and21 the other person have a little difficulty22 or something, right, and now that person23 want to sue. So they will sue the24 company because of the individual, right?25 182 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Because that individual is insured by2 that company.3 So to take it away from4 formerly convicted people, they made it5 so that they cannot get insurance. This6 is why a lot of industries are prohibited7 from hiring, because they can't cover8 themselves. Because I can't hire an9 employee and if something happen, my butt10 is out. He's not insured. I can't11 insure him. And that's what they did.12 The state legislators did that. They13 took the ability to insure formerly14 convicted people.15
And I know16 you can't speak to this unless -- maybe17 you can. I won't limit you on what you18 can do. But risk managers did a19 quantitative analysis that said customer20 service is better with people that are21 not formerly convicted individuals versus22 customer service of people who are just23 rude? And so somehow they figured out a24 calculation that says this is a higher25 183 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 risk than that? Is there any2 documentation that you know of anywhere3 that justifies that?4
I don't have none5 of that. Well, see, I do have some6 information that was sent to us in7 November from the National Reentry8 Resource --9
I'm sorry. The12 National Entry Resource Center in13 Washington where they did a survey of14 formerly convicted people on their15 likelihood to reoffend, and what they16 found was that the longer a formerly17 convicted person stayed out, his chances18 of reoffending goes down, and even take19 it to the fact they said that for a20 non-violent offender, if a non-violent21 offender stay home for four years, their22 chance of reoffending is the same level23 as a person that never offended before,24 you know. And I will provide you with25 184 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 all that information.2
I'll make sure you5 get that.6 But the other thing I forgot to7 mention, and that was the oversight8 commission that y'all want to establish9 after this bill get passed. And I want10 to commend y'all for that also, because11 you're now putting teeth in the bill, you12 know. A lot of times y'all pass13 legislation dealing with minority14 set-aside and stuff and nobody was15 standing over top of it and next thing16 you know it wasn't getting done correctly17 to y'all likings. However, this18 particular bill does put together an19 oversight committee to make sure that20 things get done in terms of addressing21 the civil rights issues of formerly22 convicted people. And I just want to put23 my hat in the ring that when the bill get24 passed and y'all do your nomination, I25 185 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 want my name and my man Steve Blackburn2 name at the top of that list, both of us.3
Thank10 you.11 Thank you all very much. Thank12 you for what you do. Thank you.13 (Applause.)14
We still15 have three panels listed, so I just ask16 everybody -- because we want to make sure17 we get this bill out of Committee today,18 and we need a quorum to do that. So if19 you could be as brief as possible in your20 testimony, but we appreciate you staying21 here for this.22 The next panel I have is23 Broderick Carroll. Is he here?24
He came with me.25 186 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
Oh, I'm2 sorry. How about -- I hope I'm not --3 how about Malissa Gamble?4
Hold it.11 Hold on.12 Zachary Durham. That's you?13 Okay. And Laura Goldman.14 And, sir, you are? I'm sorry.15
Yeah.21 You're in the next group.22 Mr. Durham, right? Why don't23 you go first. Identify yourself for the24 record and proceed, please.25 187 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
My name is Zachary2 Durham. I would like to thank3 Councilpeople on this Committee,4 Councilpersons present, Mr. Curtis Jones,5 Jr. and Councilperson William Greenlee.6 I'm here as an ex-offender and7 I'm here as a citizen of Philadelphia. I8 love this city a lot, and I would9 appreciate if Council as a whole after it10 gets out this Committee that this bill11 passes. As I said, I speak on behalf of12 ex-offenders of Philadelphia.13 You know, just recently, last14 week, I went to a grassroots campaign.15 They called me down for an interview the16 same day I called them. I went down for17 an interview. They asked me questions.18 They asked me about my previous work19 history, and I told them. And they asked20 me about -- mentioned certain topics21 about politics and stuff like that, which22 I really love politics, so I mentioned23 something from the federal and state and24 local level that bothered me. And so he25 188 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 left out the room and called me for the2 interview, because it was two people in3 there. And he asked me certain things4 about the application, because it wasn't5 all the way filled out, because he liked6 what I said about the politics and stuff7 like that, because it's a grassroots8 campaign.9 So he asked me did I have a10 record. I wanted to lie, but my heart11 told me to tell the truth. I told him12 the truth. I told him that I had a13 felony, because he asked me was it a14 misdemeanor or a felony. I told him. I15 told him the truth and nothing but the16 truth.17 He told me that I could not18 work for the grassroots campaign because19 I would be a liability, because I'd be20 handling sensitive information. That21 really hurt me. And, you know, every22 day, every other day, I look for a job,23 you know, even though I get discouraged24 sometimes because I know that someone is25 189 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 going to ask me do I have a criminal2 background, which I do. But, you know3 what, I believe in God and I know he'll4 make a way out of no way.5 Mr. Jones, you know when you6 were running for election, you had a7 challenge. You know. And ex-offenders8 every day, we have a challenge. These9 courts want us to pay these fines and10 costs and stuff like that, but with what11 money? We can't keep depending on our12 family. They're not going to be there13 for long.14 I'm only 22 years old, 22. My15 life didn't used to be like this. I16 didn't choose to have a felony. It was a17 choice that I made, because I wanted to18 come home to my family, because I lost19 too, and I didn't want to lose another.20 So I'm asking you,21 Mr. Greenlee, and you, Mr. Curtis Jones,22 that y'all pass this and that Council as23 a whole pass this bill, because it's24 needed. We were the city of firsts,25 190 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 first for a lot of things, the City of2 Philadelphia. Let's be the first to make3 this right. I know there's other states4 and cities that has something similar5 like this, but let's be the city to make6 it -- make this bill better than all the7 others.8 I heard something when CLS was9 here testifying to stuff like that, they10 said something about obtaining a job or11 something like that, seven years without12 getting in any trouble or anything like13 that. Why must there be requirements as14 to a time limit to get a job? Why must15 we wait? In Philadelphia alone, our16 unemployment rate is 11 percent. The17 national average is nine. Why does it18 have to be like that here in19 Philadelphia?20 I know everybody in this room21 loves this city. We need to take care of22 it. We need to take care of the people.23 We are a democracy. The people of24 Philadelphia elected you to be in the25 191 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 position that you are today. I ask that2 you take care of us as we took care of3 you.4 Thank you.5
Thank6 you.7 (Applause.)8 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:9 Ms. Goldman? Are you Ms. Goldman? No,10 okay. Ma'am, please.11
Okay.14 I'm sorry. We're getting a little lost15 here. Go ahead, ma'am. Please identify16 yourself for the record and proceed.17
Good afternoon. My18 name is Rhonda Share, Councilman,19 Councilman. I thank God for allowing me20 the privilege to come here this morning21 today to speak with y'all personally.22 I'm a mother of seven children and I am23 also an ex-felon. My crime happened when24 I was 16 years old. It's 26 years old.25 192 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 And I just went up for a pardon and it2 was denied this month. And I also would3 like for this bill to be passed. In the4 beginning it wasn't an issue for me,5 because I have a job. I've been working6 like off and on for 17 years, but now it7 seems to be more of an issue, and I would8 definitely like for this to be passed. I9 don't -- I hope it be passed soon, but,10 you know, I know it's a process.11 I'm not going to go on and on,12 because I got a story to tell, but I'm13 just praying that y'all make the right14 decision and that this bill get passed.15 Thanks.16
My name is20 Darryl Bickerstaff. 22 My crime happened in 1984. I did 1723 years. 50 an hour. Then I2 moved up. I turned supervisor. I worked3 in the church for four years. 7 Now, when I was working at the8 Art Museum, I was the manager of a9 subcontract cleaning company, and as10 y'all remember, the Director died. So11 when she died -- you know, I sing. So12 they were looking for somebody to sing13 for all these people. So they already14 told me there's going to be five people15 up there, so come on up. I came up about16 300. So after I got done singing -- I17 sung, and after I got done singing, for18 some reason somebody told them that I had19 a record. When they found out that I had20 a record, they went completely cuckoo,21 crazy. Now, five minutes ago I was their22 golden boy that stood up there and sung23 because this woman died of cancer or24 whatever she died from. I had no problem25 194 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 with that. That's what I do. The thing2 is, they moved me on to SEPTA. I was the3 manager down there at 30th Street4 Station, you know, and as a manager, I5 made it my business to try to hire6 ex-offenders every chance I got. Some7 worked; some don't. 8 The thing -- the problem that I9 got is that I've been out of work now for10 eight months. My skills itself should11 tell who I am, not the record that I12 have, because I'm not out here hurting13 nobody or snatching pocketbooks or14 punching old ladies in the eyes. You15 ain't going to catch me being drunk. I16 got a wife. I'm that guy that can't hold17 his wife at night because I'm not helping18 her pay the bills. I'm that dude that19 walks in the house and see our water cut20 off or our mortgage too high. 22 I'm not asking y'all to give me23 nothing, you know, and I know it sound24 rude and I know somebody said it's all25 195 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 the way you present yourself. This is2 who I am. I'm telling y'all, I'm not3 asking for anything. Push me in the4 right direction, give me a door. I'll5 make my own way. That's who I am. 7 I was in Jannie Blackwell8 office for the last seven months, eight9 months looking for a job, me and John10 Fenton. You know what John Fenton said11 to me? Man, I'm getting tired of seeing12 you, man. Because I'm in his face trying13 to get a job, Careerlink, everywhere. I14 even talked to the Deputy Mayor Michael15 Weiss. He said that because I'm a16 violent offender, they took a choice to17 work with non-violent offenders at the18 RISE program. Now, the RISE program told19 me because I got too much time out, I'm20 not eligible for they help. That's21 ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I still22 have a record. Life still is life. Are23 you going to tell my wife when you go24 home that y'all going to help her pay25 196 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 that mortgage or you all going to help2 her pay that water bill or you all going3 to make sure that door is not locked or4 the heat not off or food in my5 refrigerator? I'm not asking for6 anything. 8 This ex-offender thing, okay, I9 understand that. But if I'm not out10 there jumping out of trees, beating11 people up, stomping over people or taking12 people money, I recant that. I'm not an13 ex-offender. I'm that dude now, I'm back14 in jail starting my time over again in15 this yard out. I get 30 minutes in the16 yard. So I get my little chance to talk17 to y'all. Then I got to go -- and I18 might get a visitor today. This is how19 this all turned around for me now. It's20 psychological. It's messed up. But this21 is where I'm at right now. I'm back in22 prison, because there is no second23 chance. 24 Prison is a25 197 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 multi-million-dollar corporation that2 nobody want to give up for real. And we3 can sit here and we can talk theology and4 everything else about this, but let's be5 for real. 7 That's just the way that is. And I'm not8 trying to sound negative. 11
Thank you,15 Mr. Chairman.16 It is very important to know17 that when I was a young boy -- and that's18 a term from the inner city, for those of19 you who aren't familiar with it -- I was20 a very different guy. Because of the21 House of Umoja, Boystown, it spared me22 from probably walking some of the path23 that you had to walk. But in that24 maturation, I was able to get myself25 198 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 together and things like that and change2 the way I viewed the world and conducted3 myself. All of us go through that4 maturation process. You're a different5 person -- they say every seven years you6 change as a human being.7 If you are forever held in a8 position that you once were at seven9 versus 14 versus 21, you don't allow the10 human being to grow. And I don't know11 what you did. I'm not here to hear that12 today, but it wasn't a life sentence for13 whatever it was, and, therefore, you14 should be able to grow as a human being.15 That's what this is all about.16 Now, let me not give you any17 false representation here. This is just18 the beginning. This is one step to19 remove the box. You're still going to20 have prejudice. You're still going to21 have obstacles, but what I think this22 body is open-minded and willing to do is23 take them on with you, and where there24 are legitimate reasons, then okay. Where25 199 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 there are prejudices, it is our job to2 remove them, and we will go about our job3 vigorously, believe it.4 So what I'm saying to you is,5 we're in this together. When I leave6 this building, I go out among my7 neighbors and I go to every barber shop.8 You can't go to a barber shop in my9 neighborhood where you don't run into10 someone or several someones that are in11 that situation. So my neighbors. My12 daughters need somebody to marry. And we13 don't automatically make people14 second-class citizens or throw-away15 people. So we have to work this thing16 out together.17 I don't want to give you the18 impression that, you know, with this bill19 being passed out of Committee and it20 being passed, that we're going to take21 away all the ills of the world, but what22 we are sending the signal today in this23 Chamber is that we understand where those24 people who want to change their lives,25 200 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 we're going to give them every2 opportunity to do so. And those of you3 who would block it, we going to fight4 you. That's what we're going to do.5 So I want to thank you for your6 testimony and also for your patience,7 because I know it's difficult. I can't8 imagine going home and having to face9 some of the things you have to face every10 day, but if we have a strong spiritual11 belief in God, then -- you know, the12 Civil Rights Movement wasn't made in a13 day, it wasn't made in a year, but today14 we have an African American President, so15 perseverance and persistence does pay.16 And so together maybe we can change this17 thing, is what I'm trying to tell you.18
My thing is23 that the job opportunities is out here.24 It's redundant, especially for the skills25 201 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 that some of these young people -- this2 is the future right here. If we hold him3 back and he go out there and he do4 something because he's being held back,5 it's our fault, too. Let me finish.6 It's our fault also. And I try to talk7 to all the young people I can. I tell8 them I did 17 years, you don't want to go9 the way I went at, because it ain't no10 game. When you get out, there ain't11 going to be no jobs, man. I tell them.12 But this is our future right here. If we13 can't help them, then we lost, man.14
Well, let me15 just -- you're right, but here's the16 thing, and I don't ever want us to forget17 self-determination either. And what I18 say to you is if there is no job they19 will give you, then create one. You20 still can vote, right?21
Somebody told me22 today, the gentleman that was previously23 testifying in a wheelchair, he told me24 that I can vote.25 202 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
So the2 people that did not hire you, you have3 the ability to create your own4 organization and start it based on the5 principles that you hold dear in your6 heart about formerly convicted7 individuals. You don't have to wait for8 them to come to the consciousness to hire9 you, is what I'm saying.10 Same with you. You had a11 maintenance company that you worked for.12 I know and I speak from experience, that13 I've started more businesses in this town14 than most people, and I know that some of15 the best businesses in this town started16 in kitchen tables and, you know, a couple17 of family members got together, pulled18 their resources and started maintenance19 companies that are now generations old.20 So I'm saying to you, yeah, we21 going to knock down these barriers over22 here, but the hardest barriers to knock23 down are within our own mind, meaning24 that if -- and it's particularly you at25 203 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 22, don't let them define you. You2 can -- and I'll work with you, and we can3 define you better than they can. And I'm4 saying to you, those opportunities are5 still before us. And, yeah, we going to6 knock down the employment ones, but7 they'll throw up some more. But wherever8 there is a barrier, there is also an9 opportunity, is what I'm trying to tell10 you. And so, yeah, I come from a place11 called West Philly and I understand, but12 I'm not going to let that define me or13 stop me, and I wish that for my brother.14
Thank you,19 Mr. Chairman -- Ms. Chairman. I'm sorry.20
Thank21 you. Thank you for coming in and22 testifying.23 I'm just going to call to see24 who is here. Thomas Hall, Joseph -- come25 204 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 on up, Thomas. Or are you Joseph?2
Come on5 up, Joseph.6 Carlton Young. Come on up,7 Carlton, to the table.8 Koran Cain. No? Okay. Tracy9 Morris, Patrick Keough. Come on up.10 Is there anyone else that wants11 to testify on this bill?12 (No response.)13
Okay. So14 you guys right now are the last three.15 Anybody else want to testify?16 (No response.)17
Okay. So18 pull the mike up to you, identify19 yourself and proceed with your testimony.20
Thank you. My name21 is Carlton Young. I'm a retired22 correction officer. I did 18 years in23 the prison system, and my last year24 working in the prison system, I made25 205 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 $62,000. It's one of the best2 baby-sitting jobs I ever had. But I also3 saw the vision of what was going on in4 the prison system. After being in the5 system after two years, I knew something6 was wrong. I didn't understand what was7 going on, because I had the attitude that8 if you got locked up, you was wrong and9 you should be in jail. 15 So what happened? I got a16 blessing in '93, in 1993, to start a17 program called Breakin' Chains. It was18 dealing with behavior transformation,19 changing people's behaviors. But after20 that, in '95, I end up purchasing $10,00021 worth of manufacturing equipment to make22 clothes. 2 One guy works on foreign cars. He has3 his own business and up and running. 6 I have another -- his brother7 has a bakery that's closed that could8 hold 100 people. 13 Councilwoman Miller, I really commend14 you, because a lot of people just don't15 care. You know what I mean? And I guess16 I didn't really -- I guess I really17 didn't get personal until my daughter got18 caught up in the system. 23 And by me being in the prison system, we24 knew people. And it's sad, because if25 207 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 you don't know people, then you really in2 trouble. And so it boils down to two3 things. I just had a church member got4 killed Saturday by the police,5 Mr. Weinman. He lived on Cecil B. Moore6 Avenue. 11 I got a grandson that just got12 incarcerated, but now he's out, at 1913 years old, and I'm looking at ten more14 years. He's 29. That could be another15 Mr. 16 So this thing is personal with17 me. And this is all I'm trying to tell18 people, that I have a program that can19 change people's behaviors. And I'm not20 worried about the box. I'm taking21 ex-offenders. 22 I'm taking whoever comes out, if you want23 to change. Because on the back of my24 flyer, it says the kids that belong in25 208 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 this program is, if you want help to2 change, we will assist you, but you must3 be willing to give back. 5 So I'm not getting caught up on6 who you are, because by me having 187 years in the prison system, I'm8 comfortable. I know who I'm dealing9 with. And that's going to be one of the10 biggest problems that we are going to11 have with employees. 15 Unfortunately, I have a record16 and it end up in the FBI files, and when17 I went to Graterford to apply for a18 test -- to take the test for Graterford,19 they kicked me out. And when I went back20 to my lawyer, my lawyer found out that it21 was a check that I bounced. I made good22 to the guy, but he wanted $5,000 instead23 of $2,500 I owed him. He wanted to24 double me because I had a theatre in25 209 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 South Jersey. So we got by that. We got2 the record cleaned. So when I went down3 to the Philadelphia prisons, I told them,4 I said, Here's my paperwork. Don't make5 the same mistake, because I'm going to6 sue the next person. 8 So what I'm saying, the system9 bakes the cake. It's my job if I put the10 icing on it. 16 I just need help to get it started. And17 it's not job ready. 20
Okay. We21 want to get your information before you22 leave.23
Thank25 210 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 you.2
How you doing? My3 name is Patrick Keough. I want to thank4 you for being here. 9 While I was inside, they had a thing10 called UNICOR where in federal prison you11 must work. Within the three-month period12 of time of it being there, they were13 working three shifts a night, and their14 goal was to make $25 million. Needless15 to say, they made it. Okay? The people,16 the taxpayers, pay for us to be there. I17 would sure love to know where this 2518 million went. You understand what I'm19 saying? If we're sitting there making20 them the money, why does the taxpayers21 have to suffer in paying for us to be22 incarcerated? Let alone if it costs23 $28,000 to incarcerate an inmate, times24 that by three, because that's how many25 211 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 you have in the cell. Okay? That's2 almost, what? You know, that's a lot of3 money. That's a lot of money. That's4 almost $100,000 a cell they're making,5 and to sit there and -- I had to take6 programs, of course, anger management. 13 There was no teaching. I seen a movie, a14 G-rated cartoon movie, and got a15 certificate for it. To me, it was a16 joke. 19 Needless to say, I know we're20 here about the box. I have filled out21 many applications and I have checked the22 box yes, I have a felony record. And23 every interview I had, it stopped as soon24 as I said bank robbery. Apparently25 212 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 there's not a big -- bank robbers ain't2 getting hired, let's just put it that3 way. I had no gun. I went in there with4 a note and a pen, and my first note said,5 Please put the money in the bag, I'm just6 trying to feed my kids. 8 There was no violence. 14 Before all this happened, back15 in '99, I took a test for the City16 roofers. Okay? I came in seventh17 overall, never got a phone call. I'm not18 going to make this a racial thing or19 nothing like that. I understand equal20 opportunity employment, affirmative21 action. I understand all this, but it22 should be best man for the job. 25 213 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Other people come in because they've been2 in the military, they got 40 points off3 the rip, let alone the color of their4 skin. I had nothing, and I still came in5 seventh overall, never got a call. And6 that's what led to my bank robbery. I7 had no other choice. 9 And I noticed even going10 through welfare, there's a whole list of11 papers with boxes about felony, have you12 committed a felony, do you owe child13 support, and there's a whole list of14 boxes to check off if you ever been15 through the system. 17 Where does it end? I mean, we18 all talked about Michael Vick. Yeah, he19 got a second chance. Lindsey Lohan, of20 course. Everybody that's somebody gets a21 second chance, but if you're nobody, you22 have no chance coming. And that's why23 I'm here today. I'm the guy that has no24 chance coming. 3 I was able to do that for the federal4 government, but I can't push a broom in5 McDonald's. You understand? Because6 there's a money box there, and the first7 thing they think is, if we hire him, he's8 going to scam on us about the whole9 $2,000 of money box. 16 I'm just really confused about17 this whole thing. I'm paying the rest of18 my life for a crime I did in 2001. 22 Again, I've never lifted a hand to a23 child. 3 You're absolutely right. There's nothing4 I can do for you. And they rushed me5 while I was in jail on the phone, and6 that's how they did the court with me. I7 was supposed to have court three months8 before that, and all my supervise release9 officer kept on saying is, if you give it10 a little time, he'll violate and he'll be11 back in. Not three weeks after I12 violated, my subpoena came in and they13 had the court date. Three times before14 that, it was postponed. 18 There's not a conspiracy. 20 Yeah. I mean, yes, I consider21 myself having a fifth grade Catholic22 education.
When I was in eighth grade in23 public school, I was learning the same24 thing I learned in fifth grade at25 216 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 Catholic school. I feel that I was2 definitely railroaded. And I do have3 other convictions. I'm not saying I'm no4 angel up here. I've done some bad things5 when I was a juvenile also. And the6 thing that grabs me mostly is, if you're7 going to -- how can I word this8 eloquently? If you're going to have the9 playing field fair, it has to be fair for10 everybody, not a certain few. And right11 now, like I said, I don't want to make12 this a racial thing. It's not because13 I'm white I'm up here saying it, but if14 it's going to be fair, it has to be fair15 across the board, and I feel right now16 that it's so far from fair, it's17 pathetic. And, like I said, I worked 2018 years in the roofing business to get to19 know my knowledge and know what I'm20 doing, and, like I said, for me to come21 in seventh after everybody else is22 getting more points just because of23 military, the color of their skin, and I24 still come in seventh and I don't get a25 217 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 call, how is that fair? Where does it2 end? You know what I mean? Who gets it3 next? 4 I have a son that's 12 years5 old. He's taken from my life because of6 my violent act in the bank. All I did7 was go in there with a piece of pen and a8 paper. Nobody got hurt. 11 All they had to say, no, and I would have12 left. If they would have said no, I13 would have just left with the tail14 between my legs, you know. At the time,15 I was a junkie at the time, you know,16 just trying to get my fix, let alone pay17 the rent. We were getting ready to get18 put on the street. And now I got to live19 with this for the rest of my life, and20 it's scary. It's scary for me, because21 what do I do next? 25 218 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 I think -- I believe we're2 beyond the box. 4 And if everybody else is able to get5 their fair shake, Michael Vick and6 Lindsey Lohan and Robert Downey, Jr. just7 because of who they are, Elvis Presley,8 another drug addict, you know what I9 mean? Michael Jackson, another one. But10 everybody seems to raise their hands when11 they come in the room like they're the12 greatest thing on earth. 14 Something needs to change on15 that point of view. And sitting in jail,16 I would say 80 percent of the people17 didn't even belong there. It just seems18 like it's the answer. Everything that19 somebody does today, jail, jail, jail. I20 mean, I can't even own a gun to protect21 my family. I never committed a crime22 with a gun, but I can't protect my family23 like you's guys or anybody else. What am24 I supposed to do? And that scares the25 219 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 death out of me. What happens when2 anarchy happens here like it happened in3 Japan last week? 6
All7 right. Thank you. Maybe we'll talk to8 you after this hearing is over. Okay?9
Good11 afternoon, Council. My name is Joseph12 VanGoethem. I wanted to speak today in13 reference to the issue about the box on14 the application.15 I'm recently released from16 state prison. I was released December17 6th of last year, 2010. I've been out18 approximately a little over three months.19 I filled out over 150 job applications20 online and in person. I believe that if21 you commit a crime, you should go to22 prison and you should do your time, but23 when you come out, you know, there needs24 to be reasonable boundaries to where25 220 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 you're able to reintegrate back into2 society.3 For one, when it comes to4 working at McDonald's or -- I'd be happy5 to work anywhere coming home from prison.6 I worked in prison for over three years7 for 19 cents an hour. So to me, just8 being able to come home and apply to any9 place and receive a job offer would be10 fine, but due to what I'm quite sure is11 having to answer that question on job12 applications has restricted me from being13 able to do so.14 I am educated. I do have a15 good work history and work experience. A16 lot of times I feel that I am the best17 man for the job, and I just -- I've18 received zero callbacks. So I just feel19 that with programs that are offered today20 such as the Prison Society and LIFT and21 the Mayor's program for reentry, they're22 good programs, but they can only do half.23 I feel by getting this legislation passed24 to ban the box, that will be the other25 221 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 half of the equation, because then we2 have an honest chance for us to get our3 foot in the door and actually speak to an4 individual. And I feel that's why this5 is so important, to have that legislation6 passed so that we can have a fair shot.7 I think it's also important to8 stress that I'm not asking for a handout.9 I don't want a handout. I want to earn,10 you know, mine. Just even the playing11 field a little bit. Give us that12 opportunity to get in there with13 employers, prospective employers, and14 say, you know, this is what I've done,15 this is where -- and then be able to sell16 ourselves as individuals. I feel that's17 important.18 But I want to thank you for19 your time and effort, Councilwoman, for20 this bill, and thank you for your time.21 (Applause.)22
Can I add one23 thing? Like he said with the box and24 everything to take that away, and, yes,25 222 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 that is a good idea, but technically2 that's only half of it, because any one3 of us can go on a computer today and do a4 background check on any one of us. I5 mean, the box is one thing, but who is to6 say once you put your Social Security7 number down, they're not in the computer8 checking out your background from the9 get-go? I think it's really deeper than10 the box.11 That's all I wanted to add.12
And it is16 a hindrance. It has been a hindrance to17 folk, and that's one of the reasons why18 we want to pass this bill. So it's not19 to save all and end-all, but it is a20 start and it will help. Hopefully it21 will help. And I understand -- you know,22 I feel your frustration in your comments,23 and no one thing takes care of24 everything.25 223 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 So we'll talk to you a little2 later, but I do want to thank all three3 of you for coming in to testify today.4 Thank you.5 (Thank you.)6
Is there7 anyone else here to testify on this bill?8 (No response.)9
Seeing10 none, this ends our public hearing.11 Thank you. Thank you all for coming.12 (Pause.)13
The Chair14 recognizes Councilman Greenlee for a15 motion on the amendment.16
Thank17 you, Madam Chair. I move for the18 adoption of the amendment to Bill No.19 110111.20 (Duly seconded.)21
All those22 in favor of amending Bill No. 11011123 signify by saying aye.24 (Aye.)25 224 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111
The bill5 has been properly amended.6 The Chair recognizes Councilman7 Greenlee for a motion to move Bill No.8 110111 as amended.9
Thank10 you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No.11 110111, as amended, be reported out of12 this Committee with a favorable13 recommendation and that the rules of14 Council be suspended to allow for first15 reading at our next session of Council.16 (Duly seconded.)17
The ayes23 have it. This bill, as amended, has been24 properly moved and seconded and,25 225 3/16/11 - PUBLIC SAFETY - BILL 1101111 furthermore, the rules of Council have2 been suspended so as to permit first3 reading at our next session.4 This concludes this hearing.5 Thank you. Thank you.6 (Committee on Public Safety7 concluded at 2:15 p.m.)8 - - -9 10 11 12 13 14 226 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on March 16, 2011, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 --------------------13 MICHELE L. MURPHY14 RPR-Notary Public15 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23