COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:10 a.m. - - - - RESOLUTION 040128 - Resolution authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold comprehensive hearings, along with members of the City's State and Federal delegations, regarding "Stop-N-Go" delicatessens and the sail of prepackaged brewed of malt beverages... PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN JUAN RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN JOHN KELLY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X RESOLUTION 040128 PAGE DAVID MARTIN, Pa. LCB................ JERRY WATERS, Pa. LCB................ 19 MICHAEL CLEMENTS, Pa. State Police... 37 LYNNE ABRAHAM, District Attorney..... 61 CHIEF BLACKBURN, Police Dept......... 71 VICTOR RICHARD, Recreation Commissioner 92 THOMAS BLACKWELL...................... 95 OTIS HAIGLER, L&I..................... 98 BOB SOLVIBILE, L&I Commissioner....... 104 DOMINIC VERDI, L&I.................... 105 RICHIE FADER, Law Dept................ 107 GEORGE ZAMESKA, Health Dept........... 110 NANCY DELEON-LINK, Health Dept........ 116 MINISTER RODNEY....................... 119 GREG SPEARMAN......................... 129 RONALD TAYLOR......................... 132 BONITA CUMMINGS....................... 133 3
The Committee on Licenses and Inspections will come to order. Can everybody sit down and be quiet so we can get this going? I have here Councilman Kelly, Councilwoman Krajewski, and Councilwoman Blackwell. Is the Clerk ready to read the title of the resolution? I think Councilman Rizzo is on his way down.
Resolution No. 040128, authorizing the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to hold comprehensive hearings, along with members of the City's, state and federal delegations regarding Stop-N-Go delicatessens and the sale of prepackaged brewed or malt beverages throughout the neighborhoods in the City of Philadelphia and the effects of too many of the same establishments in the same neighborhood.
Councilman Clarke just joined us. Councilwoman Krajewski 4 was just here and Councilman Rizzo on his way down, so we have plenty to go. Councilwoman Blackwell, do you have an opening statement?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank you and Members of the Committee for the support and the sponsorship and co-sponsorship of this legislation. As you may know, I have been involved with trying to find ways to curtail the nuisance acts that follow some Stop-N-Go's throughout our City. Negative activities are damaging to the quality of life that our legislative body tries so hard to protect. I truly believe that Stop-N-Go's do not serve the community when some owners only care about making a profit, regardless of the clientele and regardless of how clientele act in or around the store premises. As most of you know, I have a long history addressing this problem. In my district, we began focussing on how the then Purple Fox, located at 49th Street and 5 Baltimore Avenue, became a problem for the neighborhood. The Purple Fox did nothing for the surrounding community, have be a haven for drugs, drinking, and criminal activities inside and outside the establishment for the most part. I met with neighbors, spoke to the owners and used all of our power here in City Council to get rid of this nuisance. It happened. On September 23, 1993, we first introduced Resolution No. 526 calling on this Committee to examine Stop-N -Go's. We then introduced Bill No. 654 on October 14, 1993, with the hope of regulating these stores by requiring compliance with the City's Health Code. It was then when we first established that the definition of these take-out convenient stores as, quote/unquote, Stop-N-Go's. The Council did that. We also introduced Bill No. 668, which was approved December 15, 1993, and looked to regulate Stop-N-Go's through our Zoning Code. We had public hearings and were told that the State would be introducing 6 enabling legislation that would allow the City of Philadelphia to regulate itself in the area of alcohol. We hope in the near future to have this accomplished. Most recently, on May 8, 2003, we introduced Resolution No. 030357 calling for hearings again on this issue. Then on November 13th, 2003, we introduced Bill No. 10 030730, in which a zoning variance would be required for any new Stop-N -Go. This bill 12 was co-sponsored by Council President Anna Verna and Councilpersons DiCicco, Miller, Nutter and Tasco. Unfortunately, it was considered preempted by our current state laws, and although it unanimously passed City Council, it was never signed by this Administration. Nevertheless, we reintroduced it as Bill No. 040758 with the hopes that the State will recognize the dilemma that we as a municipality are facing. We also introduced Bill No. 040757, co-sponsored by Councilman Ramos, which focuses on the creation and regulating of a 7 new kind of business privilege license which would be solely for convenience and take-out stores. As you can see, throughout our tenure in Council, we have been trying to come up with ways and means to combat the negative activity that some of these stores bring. I'm hopeful that today we can hear testimony from our witnesses who can hopefully shed light on how best we can address the problem and share in our view of how best a solution can be crafted. In closing, and with the permission of the Chair, we ask that we hear testimony in Council Chambers, and after that, that Councilman Mariano, our Chairman, invite the Members of this Committee, along with witnesses and members of the press, to join us in a tour on several of these Stop-N-Go's. We've made arrangements to have a trolley car meet us downstairs to take us to see firsthand what some of these stores are about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, 8 Councilwoman. Councilman Rizzo just joined us. Any other statements from anybody on the Board? (No response.)
If not, the first witness will be David Martin, Director of the Bureau of Licensing, Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. Mr. Martin, is Lieutenant Clements with you?
My name is David C. Martin, M-A-R-T-I-N. I'm the Director of Licensing for the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. With me today is Jerry Waters, who is my assistant director and former regional manager of the Philadelphia region.
Mr. Martin, do you have a statement you want to read?
Yes, I do. Members of the City Council, I 9 appreciate the opportunity to appear here today to offer some overview as to the statutory regulatory requirements that govern the retail licensed establishments in the City of Philadelphia. That is the fundamentals of how establishments are licensed by the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. Part two of my overview will try to offer some observations and suggestions as to how, as one of the governmental stakeholders in this issue, that the Board can participate in addressing the problems that arise where there is abuse or misuse of license privilege in the community. The Pennsylvania Liquor Code, which is Title 40, sets forth the classifications of licenses and the qualifications of each. The statute is further clarified by regulations found in Title 40 of the Pennsylvania Code. There is no term or licenses or classification in the Liquor Code or regulation known as Stop-N -Go. This is a term used by the community and is somewhat unique to the neighborhoods of Philadelphia. 10 However, those in the community can certainly tell you firsthand the distinction between a responsibly operated, licensed establishment and a Stop-N-Go. The negative connotation and characteristics are many and are created by way of the operational policies and irresponsibility of the licensed operator. The qualifications of a retail license are found in the Liquor Code, Section 11 102, in three general categories, restaurant, an eating place, and a retail dispenser license. A license established, again, described as a Stop-N-Go, will likely fall within the scope of these three definitions Philadelphia County is over quota. There is exception to new licenses issued, such as a new hotel or a stadium development. However, the fixed number of licenses has changed little, despite population and demographic changes over the years. Therefore, the manner in which the premises are licensed is by way of a private sale by the current owner as approved by the Board. There are three principal ways that 11 these changes occur; transfer of the owner at an existing location, a change of corporate ownership by a majority stock change or a transfer of ownership by transferring to a new location. A notice of application is required on all changes. The standard of review, however, differs for existing locations and stockholding changes versus a new location. Conditions of an approved license and location are grandfathered as to proximity issues and their premises' configuration as they currently exist. The ability to object to a new owner and majority stock change at an existing location is limited by statute to reputation of the applicant. At times, these limitations are frustrating to the community wishing to voice objection, insofar as the objection cannot consider current operational conditions and where the community has no personal knowledge of the applicant. I can add to that list some City Councilmembers who have corresponded and communicated their objections 12 only to be advised of this limitation. As the physical requirements, the Bureau of Licensing Field Investigations completes on-site inspections and confirms that all requirements are met prior to issuing the approval. The mechanics of obtaining a license are fairly clear-cut. The Liquor Code is limited in the provisions that allow intervention at the time of change of ownership. However, the Board has established a Nuisance Bar Program, which is an administrative program to examine the operational history of a licensed establishment to determine whether by its conduct the license should continue to be renewed. This review by statute can only occur during the two-year renewal cycle.
The ability to take administrative action, again, is limited in this time frame, in the criteria for non-renewal reviews, the operational history of the establishment during the previous term with input from the State Police, Philadelphia Police Department, and 13 the District Attorney gleaning information on serious incidents or activities associated with the licensed premises. The Liquor Code, however, does not afford the ability of the community to file a formal protest on the license at the time of renewal. The avenue for the community input, unfortunately, is via the documented complaints or incidents filed through the enforcement agencies, which forms the foundations for direct testimony. Act of 1987 transferred the 14 enforcement of Liquor Code laws and regulations to the Pennsylvania State Police. Any post-licensing approval that occurs, any enforcement or compliance issues falls within the scope of the State Police from that point forward, since they are the primary enforcement branch. The Board considers the license a privilege and takes the opportunity to examine the activity on that two-year cycle. However, it begs a question, what does the community do in the meantime? The Pennsylvania Liquor 14 Control Board is charged with the legislative mandate to protect the public safety, health and welfare in administrating licensing programs. Absent the enforcement powers, the Board has tried other approaches to try to assure or have the licensee get into compliance. One of these is the Responsible Alcohol Management Program, which is owner/manager/server training; but at the present time, this is a voluntary program. The Nuisance Bar Program has been successful. However, it is a matter of establishing a pattern of conduct before action can be taken. The results of such a program are directly associated with the licensee's due process in establishing factual evidence. It is recognized that more aggressive solutions need to be considered to create a safe environment while providing responsible legal beverage service. Recently at a hearing before the House Liquor Control Committee, there was a general consensus to develop legislative 15 concepts to assist neighborhoods in more immediate abatement of the problem. I would anticipate some serious dialog and forthcoming action. Some concepts for discussion included expanding the criteria to protest the issuance of a license, specifically as it applies to an existing license, owner/manager training, and perhaps expanding the Board's ramp training -- that is their server training -- to a mandatory program, particularly for new applicants. Another suggestion would be that greater consideration be given to existing operational environments at the time a license is transferred, and perhaps impose conditions for future owners and operators. Finally, develop a new licensing scheme to better define the operations and requirements, particularly of Stop-N-Go's. These are ideas that have been discussed and will require statewide input as to its effect on the current licensing scheme. So what about now? While the 16 Pennsylvania State Police Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement has primary oversight in enforcing the laws, the nature of the various violations span a wide array of agencies; code enforcement, compliance issues. It is difficult to summarily close any establishment It may be worth examining the establishment of perhaps a task force of stakeholders in the issue, that is, community representatives, law enforcement, State Police, PLCP certainly, as well as the License Beverage Associations. Key to this task force would be to convince the licensee that it is in the best interest of the business to work with the neighborhoods. Objectors would bring the issues to the table perhaps to meet and discuss their solutions to the problems. There should be stricter enforcement. Is mediation an option? Early intervention? Operational agreements? These are all things to be considered.
The business is entitled to due process. My point is that if a licensee is not in compliance or is blatantly flaunting 17 the law, immediate and effective measures should be imposed in conjunction with enforcement leverage. Licensees can be an asset to the community and offer great economic benefit. When they aren't, they are indeed a liability and a detriment to the neighborhood. I welcome any comments or questions from the City Council. Thank you.
Thank you. We know you attended a recent hearing and we thank you for being here again today to support us in the community's quest to try to control those Stop-N-Go's in our neighborhoods who do not work in tandem and in cooperation with the community.
Councilman Ramos is here. Councilman Clarke has a question. Before he does, I have a question. You mentioned a little bit in your statement that this is pretty peculiar of Philadelphia alone. They don't have Stop-N-Go's in 18 Shamokin, Pennsylvania; they don't have Stop-N-Go's in Pittsburgh or in Allegheny County; It's just here?
No, I wouldn't say that. The term "Stop-N-Go" is kind of characteristic and unique to Philadelphia. I would suggest that there are lawful configurations in which a delicatessen can operate in conjunction with a licensed establishment. But it just seems that the City of Philadelphia, it really has some very serious neighborhood and quality-of-life issues.
Not of this level. We recognize the neighborhood issues and problems that are occurring in the City. As to small communities or rural communities, it just doesn't seem to be at the level that there are in Philadelphia.
In this big urban environment, I would suspect -- and I'm sure this is what Councilwoman Blackwell's 19 point is, and I guess Councilman Clarke's -- it's pretty much in the minority communities where there's this perpetuation of the illegal use of these Stop-N-Go's. We can take the word "Stop-N-Go" out. It's simply a store we can go in to buy some lunch meat and buy a quart of Old English malt liquor and take off, right? I mean, they have them in Shamokin, Pennsylvania, but in poorer minority communities in Philadelphia it's a problem.
That problem, in your opinion, doesn't have anything to do with enforcement; it's more just the people that own these things tend to exploit the neighborhoods that they're exploiting.
Well, in Mr. Water's observation -- and he worked in the City of Philadelphia for years -- many times the owners aren't members of the community.
Councilman, one of the problems that is related just to Philadelphia is that years ago when these licenses were 20 established in the neighborhoods, they were neighborhood establishments. The owners and the neighborhoods changed and the licenses were sold. I would expect that around 1985, the licensees who lived in the community, worked in the community and were part of the community began to sell their licenses off to individuals who did not live in the community and, therefore, had no interest or stake in what happened in the community. They have now become a hindrance. Although when we license them and they are configured and legal, when we leave, they tend to change that configuration. It becomes a problem and becomes what is known in Philadelphia as a Stop-N-Go. They're out of compliance and they're running illegally, and that is an issue for your community.
If I can elaborate that a little bit longer. I remember 1985 vaguely. I'm thinking of a particular place in my neighborhood that was a pretty decent delicatessen. Now it's more of a take-out. This isn't a Liquor Control Board 21 problem. It may be a more of an L&I problem that we'll get into later. Take-out seemed to be a problem. Every item, if it's taken out, a certain ethnic food -- not to pick on one ethnic food, but there's some in certain poor neighborhoods that are just totally take-out. No matter where there is take-out in Philadelphia, it seems to be a problem, whether it's take-out liquor or take-out food or take-out soda. It's a problem. I think in this case, I guess as the malt liquor has become more stronger and cheaper, it's much like crack cocaine. It appeals to a different audience. It probably costs less than $5. It's been a while since I've bought a quart of Old English, but I suspect it's only a couple bucks, which makes it very cheap for somebody who wants to get a quick high.
40s. What's the price of the 40, Councilman? Councilman Clarke, the price of a 22 40?
I don't expect you to know. Councilman Rizzo, do you know the price of a 40?
Well, you can't talk until you know the price of a 40.
That's what I mean. My point exactly. $1.75. Who can't get $2? You've got to get up $5 to buy crack. So buy this. It's $3 cheaper. Again, they're dumping it on the poor people like they do in this country, in this state and in this City. Councilman Clarke, I'm sorry. It's just something I needed to say.
I'm a bit confused when you say out of compliance. Can you just describe what are they legally 23 allowed to do?
To begin, the Liquor Code has just very general definitions of retail establishments. That's a legislative issue that we should address to be more specific. What they legally can do, for example, for a beer license, minimal requirement is 300 square feet of floor space, tables and chairs and seating for 30. To be in compliance, you have to have the premises open and operating and available to the public at all times during the hours of operation. When they get out of compliance, Stop-N-Go's, after they approve the dining and serving areas, after the fact, they are known to make a partition to segregate the formerly approved service areas. They don't want patrons sitting in the place. Those are compliance issues. If they are operating in the tone of, "all I want to sell is take-out beer, I don't want to sell any food," those are compliance issues. So they're out of compliance after the fact. They know how to check off all the numbers and cross the T's 24 and they get state approval, and they go south.
Councilman Clarke was ahead of me. I'm going to come back to this when it's my turn. I'm still a bit confused. I remember places where you could just jump out of the car, run in and get a six-pack and I don't remember seeing any chairs or food or anything. But I'll come back.
If Councilman Clarke can forgive me for a minute. On Councilman Rizzo's point there, I'm thinking of one in my head that's been in Juniata forever that's never had tables in it. It was a place where you bought lunch meat. Now you buy the 40s of malt liquor and you're in and out. You can buy the papers. If you get lucky, you can probably buy crack pipes there or whatever you need. Maybe once in a while an Inquirer. Is that out of compliance?
It sounds to me like they are. You can talk to the State Police 25 about doing an on-site inspection. But it sounds to me from what you described --
How about we just do an on-site inspection of every liquor license that you issued? I don't want you to chase bars around because at least guys can sit in there and drink their stuff. But every deli? Do you we know how many there are?
Councilman, at the time of a transfer for a new license, a field audit is completed, and at that time they are in compliance.
Does anybody go back after three years or two years to see if they're still in compliance without any complaints? You know what happens in these neighborhoods that we represent? The poorest people that put up with this crap are the people that are busy raising families and going to work and just trying to get by. It's just like you get hit with something unless you skip work to come down to a City Council hearing or leave your grandchildren that you may watch somewhere. It becomes a hindrance to them to be able to get that point across.
Again, after the fact that the neighborhoods would call us, we are not the enforcement branch. We do refer to the local State Police Enforcement Branch. As to, do we do any follow-up inspections? No, the Liquor Board does not. However, at the renewal time we do not do compliance inspections because it crosses the line into enforcement. It seems to be that clear-cut, that once enforcement was taken from the Liquor Board, the State Police are our enforcement branch.
Which one of our lovely governors figured out that, that we would take it away from the LCB?
Casey? Can we blame it on a dead guy or do we blame Governor Ridge?
How about our 27 illustrious governor now? How does he feel about this?
Thank you. The Councilman who has been waiting has agreed to let me make one comment on that as a follow-up. And that is, the reason we are here, to Councilman Rizzo and others, is that after they get licensed and after they have inspections, after they have the sit-down and they show the bathrooms and they have running water, as soon as the inspectors go, they go back to operating illegally. So we spend years. That is why these folks are out here who can stand up now and who were out there demonstrating almost 700 days because they're not in compliance. That's what they do all the time. You go out there. You inspect. 28
We're protesting an establishment that we don't want in our community. We're there from the time they open until the time they close. We're outside this establishment and we're going to stay there. It's been there too long.
That's what it's about. You're in compliance. And then we call the Health Department, we call L&I, we call everybody over and over and over. As soon as the City leaves or the enforcement agency leaves, they go back to business as usual and disrespect our community. They close the bathrooms. They only use them for themselves, for their own personal use. You can't sit down. They don't have running water. They do all the things that disrespect the rights of people in neighborhoods. That's why we're here and that's why they've been demonstrating almost 700 days. (Applause.)
Good morning, 29 Mr. Martin, gentlemen. I just want to get some clarity. With respect to the state statute, beyond the regulation of liquor, are there any other prohibitions for municipalities to enforce or create legislation to affect these types of operations? Can we deal with hours of operations? Can we deal with requirements as it relates to ancillary operations in the facility beyond the selling of beer? Because most of these places have other things, hoagies, sandwiches, potato chips. You name it, they have it.
The state statute sets forth some fixed parameters, such as the hours of sale. For example, the lawful hours of sale for a restaurant is 7:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. the following morning. Insofar as any local zoning requirements, as long as it's within the parameters and doesn't exceed or fall within the scope of the state law, you can certainly have a local zoning that perhaps could limit hours to midnight. You could possibly have 30 certain restrictions on what's required of a dining serving area. As long as it's something within the scope of the state laws. Local zoning rights of a municipality, there's a section of the Liquor Code that covers that. Zoning is not a state issue. However, zoning many times is the impediment to getting the final permit in to get the place open and operating. One of the last items we need for an inspection is a local health permit. Now, if zoning prohibits that --
So we have the ability to regulate locally certain aspects of the local Zoning Code that could make it more difficult for these stores to operate generally, not related to sales of beer?
Yes. But within the scope that you don't exceed the state law. Again, within the scope of staying within the parameters of the state law, you can do that.
Let me get a little ahead of myself. We introduced a bill. I think all the Councilmembers here 31 co-sponsored a bill that impacts hours of operation, period, not talking about the sale of beer or any other thing. But in a particular location, we actually created a bill that talks about a residential community and we will prohibit the operations of that store regardless of what they sell for a certain time, say 11:00 at night. Are we prohibited to do that because the store sells alcohol?
Generally speaking, again, local zoning could do a lot within the scope of a state law. But not having seen the specifics of the language, I would kind of defer a final answer on that to our chief counsel. But I think we're on the right path here. There are a lot of local things you can do. But as to the language and specifics of the City ordinance or Code enforcement, I think it would be prudent to maybe run this legal question by our chief counsel.
With respect to our ability to enforce penalties, are we 32 limited at all by state statute on the maximum amount of penalty imposed for Code violations?
I think as to zoning and local municipal Code violations, that falls outside the scope of the Liquor Code.
So if there are operations that are in noncompliance, as you indicated earlier, not having restrooms available to patrons, things of that nature, we can impose a $5,000 fine?
If that's in your local Code. But again, your local Code could not change penalties for sales to minors and the like. That's a Liquor Code. As long as it's outside the scope of the Liquor Code, I believe you can. I would again refer some of these more specific issues to the State Police or the Liquor Board counsel itself. But I think we're on the right path.
On Councilman Clarke's question, it's my belief we can regulate no sale of liquor zones, too, correct?
Well, under statute, 33 the sale of liquor or alcoholic beverages is a local option. It's by referendum. I don't think it can be done by an ordinance.
I know there was something done around my neighborhood with a shopping center years ago, and part of 8 the zoning provisos was that there would never 9 be any alcoholic beverages. 10
I understand the 11 question. Zoning could certainly limit zoning 12 areas of whether you have restaurants or 13 alcohol, whatever. What I'm suggesting is you 14 really can't by an ordinance vote a ward or 15 municipality dry.
Let me get clarity on that line of questioning. Are you saying that local municipality can create, for instance, a zoning overlay that in this particular commercial corridor there will be no sale of alcohol; is that what you're saying?
It would be an ordinance from the perspective of limiting 34 whether you should have a commercial or residential or office zoning, and maybe from that perspective it would limit what could go into that establishment. But to specifically say that alcoholic beverages could not be sold in a ward, in that term, really is contrary to state law, because that's state law that says you're wet or dry. You would be doing it by way of other elements of zoning.
Councilman, I believe that in your Charter or one of your ordinances you currently have language relative to Columbia Avenue, and I don't believe that on Columbia Avenue there's a licensed establishment that can legally sell --
I believe that there is language in there that currently exists. How that language was drafted, I wouldn't know, but I am aware that there is at least one locale in the City.
So the precedent was set. I'm not sure when that was 35 implemented. But I know the precedent was set in the City that there is a corridor in at least the North Philly portion that I represent that there are no bars or other establishments that sell liquor allowed on that particular corridor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much. We introduced on September 23rd a bill that amends the Philadelphia Code by creating a new license for convenience and take-out stores and by adding standards of conduct of convenience for take-out stores under certain terms and conditions. So we've tried to do that. And before you leave maybe you can take a look at that. It is a new bill 21 where we're trying to find some way to force these stores to have a public review so that communities who have concerns can work with these businesses to try to make sure that they agree on operating standards. If you would, 36 we'll give you a copy of Bill No. 040757. Also, we'll ask you, if you would, again, to look at this bill that was signed by about seven or eight District Councilmembers and agreed to by all Members of Council about the operation and the zoning issue. We were told that we've got to include the State. So we have State Representative Elect Thomas Blackwell around here someplace and support by other members of the State who will work with us to try to make that possible. Because they tell me the zoning thing gets a little hairy, in terms of what we can locally do if it refers to liquor and what we can't. We'll have the Clerk give you copies of both bills, and we'd love to have your opinion. It will be before Councilman Mariano again, the one I just read, Bill No. 040757. And the other bill would be before the Rules Committee before President Verna. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Any other questions for these 37 witnesses? (No response.)
Seeing none. Lieutenant Michael Clements, Pennsylvania State Liquor Control Enforcement Unit. Lieutenant, if you two could just state your name and spell it for the record, and your job title. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: I'm Lieutenant Michael Clements. I'm the Eastern Section 13 Commander for the Pennsylvania State Police Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement. Next to me is Sergeant John Comer (ph). He's a District Office Commander, Philadelphia office.
Thank you. Do you have a statement for us, Lieutenant? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Yes, I do. First of all, thanks a lot for inviting us here today. You have asked me to comment on a type of establishment locally known or referred to as Stop-N-Go's. Initially I must 38 point out there is no license for a Stop-N-Go. The licenses in question are either E or R licenses. The term Stop-N-Go loosely refers to a delicatessen-style business where patrons commonly purchase alcoholic beverages and food for consumption off premises. These businesses are operating under both E and R licenses. Both E, eating places; and R, restaurant licenses; are required to provide sufficient tables and chairs to accommodate 30 patrons at one time and obtain a Sunday sales permit in order to be open on Sundays. m. m. An exception is the extended hours food service, EHF permit, which allows premises to remain open for the service of food only. Both licenses are required to have a valid health permit. Both are allowed to sell 192 fluid ounces of malt or brewed beverages for consumption off premises. An E license establishment must have a total area of not less than 300 square feet 39 and regularly prepare and sell food. They are licensed to sell only malt or brewed beverages The R license establishments must have an area of not less than 400 square feet and are able to provide food. The food does not have to be prepared on premises. The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board has responsibility for the initial licensing and renewal function of all liquor-licensed establishments. Three agencies in Philadelphia have jurisdiction to investigate allegations of misconduct by liquor licensees: The Pennsylvania State Police Bureau of Liquor Control Enforcement, the Philadelphia Police Department, and the Philadelphia Department of Licenses and Inspections. Investigations conducted by the Pennsylvania State Police are initiated by complaints and self-initiated inspections. Complaints are received from a variety of sources, and all complaints are investigated. Complaints received by the State Police concerning these establishments typically 40 involve the following liquor code issues: Tables and chairs not readily available to the public, minimal or no food service, sales to minors, and open on Sundays without a Sunday sales permit. The Bureau also receives other complaints concerning issues not within the scope of the Liquor Code, such as the following: Service counters located behind bullet-proof glass with a small slot that money and purchased items can be passed through, restroom facilities not available to the public, persons loitering, drinking, and other disruptive behavior in front of or near the establishments, and trash left in the surrounding areas of the establishment or in nearby parks. Most complaints are investigated by undercover officers visiting the establishment several times on days and during the hours when the alleged offenses are most likely to be observed. When the complainant's identity is known, an interview is conducted by the officers to clarify the complaint and to 41 acquire additional information. When a violation is observed, an administrative citation or a criminal arrest is initiated. The administrative citation is directed toward the liquor license and the criminal action is against the individual. The State Police also send undercover patrols to spot check these establishments for other violations, such as sales to minors. When the identity of a complainant is known, the results of the investigations are given to the individual Under some circumstances, an open inspection may be conducted by the Bureau to ensure compliance with the Liquor Code and the regulations of the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board. As noted earlier, there are some complaints that fall outside the jurisdiction of the Bureau.
These complaints relate to the following issues and should be referred to the police agencies with primary jurisdiction: Persons loitering, open container violations, drinking outside, littering, curfew violations 42 and other disruptive behavior near the establishment. It should be noted that the local police agency also has the same authority to cite minors for underage drinking and make arrests for furnishing alcohol to minors that Bureau personnel have. In Philadelphia, complaints relative to the lack of bathroom facilities should be referred to the Philadelphia Department of Licenses and Inspections. Licensed establishments are required to have a health permit. However, there is no Liquor Code requirement that a licensed establishment have a bathroom available to the public. The Liquor Code does not prohibit the erection of bulletproof or Plexiglass barriers. It does not prohibit seating to be located out of the view of the patrons, as long as access to the seating area is granted when requested. The Code does not require the patron to be made aware that seating is available. I would happily answer any questions you have concerning this issue. Any questions 43 that I don't know the answer to, I'll get back to you with further research.
Thank you. Good morning. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Good morning.
A couple quick questions as it relates to the State Police and operations associated with some of these establishments. I've seen many instances -- and I think all of us have -- during the holidays and during certain times when there are believed to be high levels of driving while drunk or certain areas where there tends to be a propensity of certain types of illegal operations where the State Police take a preemptive approach, where they set up stops along the highways. They think the likelihood on December 31st that probably a lot of people will be driving drunk and they set these stops up and they just stop people. 44 LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Checkpoints.
Checkpoints, right. In an area where there is a likelihood of high levels of violations based on past complaints or surveillance, do the State Police ever come into an area, say, for instance, some of the areas that were mentioned earlier, this one as an example, and just do preemptive checks to see if there's nonconformance of laws, both on the state and municipal level as it relates to the sale of alcohol and operations of these types of facilities as opposed to just simply complaint driven? Some of these corridors, I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that these things are not in compliance along the corridor. Why can't we just go in there and do what we need to do? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Well, we actually do what we call inspections where we go to licensees and inspect them, just make sure they're complying within the guidelines 45 of the Liquor Code.
Inspections in what way? Do we just go to one establishment or do we -- LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: The establishment, correct.
I'm talking about an area. There are certain areas in the City of Philadelphia, some in my district, some in Councilwoman Blackwell's district, and I'm sure there are some in Councilman Mariano's district, where we know that there are high levels of violations, high levels of these types of stores. Why can't we just go in and basically take a similar preemptive approach as we do on drunk driving or those type of things? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: We do that Delaware Avenue is a good example. We actually went to each and every one of those establishments.
Delaware Avenue, nobody lives there. North Philadelphia. 46 LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Manayunk --
They're all wealthy people, people who came in and regentrified. It's not the neighborhood where these people live. I hate for you to be the point man here for this, Lieutenant, but obviously that's what you're getting paid for. Look around. Look at the people in here. It's poor, basically African-American people. You know, we're tired. We're tired of living like that. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: First of all, we do routine inspections of these places. In fact, there's a program going on now that we're going to each and every one of them. We respond to all complaints.
You actually enhance my concern when you say that you do something on Delaware Avenue or you go to Old City or you go to Manayunk. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: And we go to these neighborhoods. THE AUDIENCE: No, you don't. 47
That's where all the rich kids go to get drunk, the rich, white kids basically, where these people have to raise their families. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: We also go to these neighborhoods.
I'm not trying to play the crowd. I might have a different color skin than these guy here, but the problem is poor people get crapped on in this City. They get crapped on constantly and they're tired. They're tired of being here. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: For example, 55th and Oxford, we've been there four times in the last year, and we have cited them.
You went to a particular store? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: 55th and Oxford.
I've seen what you've done on Delaware Avenue. You basically 48 in certain instances shut down the entire corridor. You checked to see if people were drunk. You checked licenses from establishments. I'm talking about that type of preemptive approach to neighborhood corridors where we have these types of establishments and just not simply responding to a complaint and or responding to a demonstration on the one operation. I'm talking about coming in the neighborhood, simply requiring that everybody is in compliance, period. Right now on a municipal level, they have this program called Rolling Thunder -- am I correct -- where they go into an area and in a four-hour period they enforce everything imaginable. They even stop you if your car is not locked. All type of activities. My understanding is that that's been extremely successful. So I'm saying on the state level, since the State is the primary responsible entity to regulate this liquor issue, can we have -- LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: In the 49 nuisance bar area, we've responded. The Philadelphia Police Department gave us a list of some 60 places in the course of three days several years ago. We went to each and every one of them and made sure that they were in compliance. Those that weren't, they were cited.
Have you gone in the last three years? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: We don't have the resources to do mass actions like that. We have resources to go out and investigate and do inspections, and we do that.
Maybe that's a question we'd ask. How many people do you have to cover the City? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Currently we have 23.
Twenty-three for the whole City of Philadelphia. How many liquor licenses are in Philadelphia? Not for restaurants and not for the corner bar. That's a whole different story. For these delicatessens, these E's? 50 LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: There are 128 E licenses that are active.
So you have 5 enforcers for 128 E licenses. So out of 25 6 agents, can they make a visit maybe twice a 7 year to every place? The math don't seem that 8 hard. 9 You know what I think the problem 10 is? Believe it or not, it's probably a 11 cultural thing. I mean, most of the State 12 Police don't live in Philadelphia and they 13 don't live in North Philadelphia and they 14 don't live in Kensington. Wherever they live, 15 they're certainly entitled to live. 16 You got two guys here. You guys 17 could have went to the same high school I went 18 to. But you guys look like oakies and you're 19 sitting here with a bunch of people from the 20 hood or from the barrio and they just want 21 results. No disrespect to you two. I don't 22 have any liquor licenses in my name, so it 23 doesn't matter. Do you understand what we're 24 getting at? I'm trying to be fair, but, you 25 know. 51 LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Seventy percent of these places have been inspected within the last year.
Let me say this. At 55th and Larchwood, which is in West Philadelphia, where we started the whole Stop-N-Go issue way back in the early '90s, they've been out there 684 days. Now, I agree with what you said in terms of the violations. Thank God we've got Bob Solvibile, Mr. Verdi and all the L&I people who continue. I would dare to say we could get a lot more done with that department with all the problems we have if we didn't call them every day about these Stop-N-Go's who disrespect and violate community concerns. They have enough to do. So we have no choice. Locally we're doing all we can do But certainly at 55th and Larchwood in West Philadelphia, North Philadelphia, South Philadelphia, Kensington, we have Stop-N-Go's in the middle and on corners right next door to people, right next door to seniors and 52 families and schools. We have big problems. We have our Recreation Commissioner who we're going to call and ask him what he thinks about this. We have our DA, who has to leave, who's waiting to speak. But we have serious problems and we want to work together to try to come up with positive ways. We know the problems. But the issue becomes what you think you can do to help contribute. I appreciate this because it's a crystallization of the problems. You list them and they are the problems that we face each and every day. Like I said, these providers who don't want to work with the community, they wait until you to inspect and leave and they do it all over again. That's why we're trying to come up with laws to change all of it because they're not respecting the community. They leave at night. Leave us with the problems. Have the hanging out and all of that. Having said that, that's not everybody. We have some wonderful stores who 53 work closely with the community. But those who wreak havoc cause us big problems. Albeit finally you've said you've been out to 55th and Larchwood four times in the last year. They've been out there each and every day through rain and snow, through Christmas and Easter. No matter what the weather, every single day for 684 days. And they have a right to expect that somebody, that their government and that the system that they represent and all of us who they elect are trying to do something in their best interests. That's what it's all about. Right, Mr. Muhammad (ph)? That's what it's about.
Councilman, if you could just give me a minute. There's or inspectors. Is 20 that in the City of Philadelphia or the whole 21 region? 22 LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: That's 23 Philadelphia, Delaware County, and Chester 24 County. 25
So that's a lot 54 more that you take care of instead of 23 in Philadelphia. How would we get more people to do that? Would it have to come from upstairs, from you or the Governor or maybe one of the state reps can put some more money in the budget or something? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: There's a formula that they use to allocate officers based on the number of licensees throughout the State.
But again, most of that enforcement is complaint-driven. There's no proactive re-enforcement. LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: I wouldn't say that. We definitely do inspections. We always do proactive, but it's primarily complaints. We have a full gamut of things on our plate, not simply Stop-N-Go's. We have other responsibilities as well.
For instance, restaurants and regular bars? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Restaurants, minors. We go to sporting events, Speakeasies. 55
You go down to the stadium before the games and check all them out too? The ones that are leering at the women, we don't make sure those guys are all 21, right? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: We don't go to the stadiums.
The problem is I'm getting older and I can't tell who's or 11 not now. Everybody looks 21, but I'm sure 12 they're not. 13 Councilman, I'm sorry. 14
It's okay. Just 15 one follow-up question, Lieutenant. 16 With respect to your preemptive 17 operations, do you approach them at a 18 multi-jurisdictional level, having the City of 19 Philadelphia Police, Licenses and Inspections 20 Agency, or do you just deal with the police 21 that are, as you said, very limited in terms of resources? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: We participate in both task forces that the City is operating now; the one with the Philadelphia District 56 Attorney's Office and the Citywide Vice Unit. And weekly we go out with Citywide Vice and inspect various locations and cite establishments and arrest minors.
One last question. I know we may not want to respond to this in this forum. At the end of the day, Councilmembers tend to be the elected officials that people have the most access to because we're local. Is there a possibility that we can pull together a strategy session where all of the pertinent departments, both on the state and the local level, can talk about a preemptive plan of action where we, the elected officials, have a clear sense of areas where there's levels of concern, having certain community people participate in that response and just go out and do somewhat of a blitz on certain establishments to deal with this in a very, very aggressive, proactive way? We had a program that was implemented in the City called Safe Streets. 57 For the first several months, that thing shut all of that drug stuff down. Frankly speaking, as indicated earlier by Councilman Mariano, we believe that some of the sales of this malt liquor are, in fact, drugs, although there is beer sold legally. But the actions associated with the consumption of this, sometimes you would think that people are on crack, frankly speaking. Would there be a possibility of us sitting down and coming up with a serious and aggressive strategy to deal with these commercial establishments so that we can send a message once and for all, we no longer will have this in our neighborhoods? Would that be something that you would participate in? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Definitely. We participate, like I said before, in various task forces or groups. We attend all of the meetings that we're invited to. So we're definitely willing to sit down and discuss it.
Councilman Rizzo, and then we're going to bring the District Attorney up because she has to go somewhere.
Thank you. Troopers, Lieutenant, I came in a bit late. I had to run out for a second. You're the enforcement part of the liquor laws, the State Police. What can our police do without your presence? If a 911 call comes, a complaint, can our Philadelphia Police be deputized or can they do exactly what you do? LIEUTENANT CLEMENTS: Well, the primary goal or responsibilities that the liquor enforcement officers have deals with the license. They're dealing with things like the tables and the chairs and that type of thing. As far as any 911-type situations, that is the responsibility of the police. So if you're looking at loitering, if you're looking at any type of Crimes Code violation, you're looking at the Philadelphia Police 59 pretty much handling those situations. So as far as the Liquor Code, they have the full powers of enforcing the Liquor Code. The Philadelphia Police can enforce the Liquor Code. What they can't enforce is the regulations of the LCB. So they can do quite a bit.
If they walk in and there's a Stop-N-Go and it's noted here that they need a Sunday license to operate on a Sunday, one of our police officers observes, do they have a relationship with you where they do a report and forward it to you, notifying you that there's an establishment in Councilman Mariano's district that should not be operating on a Sunday and in fact it is? What relationship do we have? It sounds to me that this is relatively an easy problem to resolve with some enforcement and people with knowledge of what the rules and regs are. I just can't imagine that the State Police and the Philadelphia Police and other agencies just can't get together and snuff this thing out. 60 It's black and white. Either they're operating legally or not. If they don't have tables and chairs and they're operating on a Sunday, why are they open? It doesn't make any sense to me. (Applause.)
It's just impossible for me. Maybe what you need to do, if they're ignoring the law after being cited, maybe they need to come out in handcuffs. I don't know.
Thank you, Councilman. That seems to be the only question for you guys. You might want to stick around and hear the rest of this if you want. Do you have anything to say, Sergeant? SERGEANT COMER: No. 21
Smart man. District Attorney, please. Thank you, guys. Sorry to pick on you, but that's why I get the big bucks, you know. Thanks. 61
Mr. Chairman, would you object if Chief Blackburn joined us, since the DA's Office and the Police Department are working together on this issue?
I would be excited to see the Chief sitting up at the table. He's a personal hero of mine.
Thank you very much. The Chief and I are here together, Councilman. I thank the Committee for calling these hearings because I think they're very important. First and foremost, I brought with me several guides for the Committee, these guides which my office has put together. Chief Michael Erdos, E-R-D-O-S, who is behind me, is the Chief of our Public Nuisance Task Force. Next to him is our deputy for the Narcotics Division, Joseph Whitehead. These are available to any members of the community, and we give thousands of these away every year. They do contain all of the requirements of operation of a liquor 62 establishment in Philadelphia. Plus the green pages in the back of the book are these -- how people can be aware of how license transfers can be affected, all the requirements of license renewals. So there's statutory and there's information on how communities can organize with us. There is a hotline number. So this is really our community guide to enforcing drug and Liquor Code in nuisance establishments. I'm going to give these to the Committee. When we go out in the community, which we do literally thousands of times every year, we bring a pile of these. They're frequently a hot item that everybody wants. They're written in plain English so that anybody can understand them without having to go to law school. We think that the issues brought today are extraordinarily important. I do have prepared text, which I've delivered to Council. I'm at your pleasure, whether I should move to have admitted to the record my testimony, go right to the questions that you 63 might have, or anything that the Committee desires to help the Committee do its work.
It would be fine to just put that in the testimony and then let us just get to the questions.