civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 7, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 7, 20246h 50m

Another building affiliated with the Mormon Temple.

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And these parked cars over here are affiliated with the Mormon temple, just so the board has an idea of where the two proposed signs are going to be.

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The reason we need the proposed signs and the reason that we're here before the board is that these signs would need to have a pan in the back.

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Why does it need the pin at the back of, and referring to sine three, it would be a nine

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by 24 inch and sine five would be nine by 24 feet.

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I apologize.

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Nine feet by 24 feet.

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And sine five would be approximately eight foot six feet by 12 feet, which would be resting

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approximately six foot eight inches above the ground.

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The reason that it needs that is, I'm going to scroll down.

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The letters to the sign, and this is one of the signs that's already up.

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This is one of the proposed signs. This would be sign number three by Franklin Town Boulevard sign on the Franklin Town Boulevard side and going down, and this is on the Wood Street side.

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This is one of the proposed signs. This would be sign number three by Franklin.

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The purposes of these signs would be to direct receiving and deliveries to the building in question, as well as to direct the bus drivers or the van drivers for the residents, so that people would know where the building is for the residents, as well as shipping and receiving.

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The sign would consist of all these letters, which would create pinholes into the building.

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And the reason that the proposal called for the pan in the back would be that the pan would only use between six and eight holes into the EFIS surface of the building, whereas installing the individual letters would create hundreds of pinholes into the building.

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The building previously had a sign. If you could read it, it's called when this building was known as the watermark. And if you're looking at page 27 of my exhibit packet, and I have several other pictures, all these are pinholes from when the watermark sign was on the building.

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All these pinholes, they can't be covered up. They can't be repainted. Those pinholes are still going to be seen. And to add additional pinholes for the proposed sign, it would just be harmful to the structural integrity of the building.

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We're adding additional holes to the building and we're not going to be able to cover up these holes.

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That's why there is the proposal for the pan so that the pan would be attached to the building and then the individual letters would be attached to the pan.

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So as the letters get removed.

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So, Mr. Vicario, just to be clear, you said five, you showed three.

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What are the other two?

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The other two, the other two are on the top of the building.

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i could just briefly show you why don't you show us that

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here it is on page 20 on page 20 on the top of the left and left left over there

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yes yes to the left over here my my right wow okay okay it's those signs and then there's

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and how big are those signs at the top of the building well those signs

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If I could zoom in here, those are roughly 62 feet wide by about 4 foot, 62 feet wide by 7 foot 9 inches wide.

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And those signs, they're much higher. They sit approximately between 200 and 230 feet above.

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And that design's up there, too?

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That's my understanding, yes. And Mr. O'Hara, he can confirm that. Again, that's not part of our application. That's for the city. That's for the city in general to view where the building is.

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These signs, these specific signs are for the cab drivers, the bus drivers, as well as the delivery drivers.

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And again, here, I'm just scrolling down, if I could zoom on down.

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Mr. Vaccaro, did you go to the RCO meeting?

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I know, I know, I understand that.

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Did you go to the RCO meeting?

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Yes, I did.

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And 16 people were there?

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They all voted against it?

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I know that. And that was surprising that all 16 people voted after one of the residents actually said that these are very nice signs. The signs are not illuminated. They're static. We had one resident that said it was very nice.

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We had another resident that was very insistent.

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He was being very insistent that all of these holes, all of these holes that I'm showing on page 28, they could all be covered up and the whole building could be repainted.

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Now, again, members of the board, this building is over 200 feet tall.

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Does he propose that we have to repaint the whole building?

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I'm just trying to figure out.

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There's 16 people voted and they all voted against it.

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I know him, but we were not there for the vote.

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Okay, thank you.

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Now, if I can respond, though, I did share an email communication with Mr. Lineback of the Logan Square Neighborhood Association, and that's on page 67.

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And that's on page, that's on page 67, page 66 and 67. Okay. When he emailed me and, you know, this is, this is an opposition. I emailed him back. I emailed him back. Can you please, non-argumentatively, good afternoon. Is there a rationale for the vote?

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and he responded to me and he responded to me here's a here's a response if i could zoom out a

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bit the l the lsna board of directors voted to oppose the request for the variance the board

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did not consider this to be an unnecessary hardship for the applicant okay thank you so

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we think it is we think it is okay and that's it in you want to bring your client on to adopt

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your testimony please uh can i bring in mr o'hara first sure mr harrow's the who's he from the

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compass sign company sure okay so you there he has been allowed to speak hi mr harrow please

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state your name and spell for the stenographer dennis o'hara d-e-n-n-i-s capital o apostrophe

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capital h-a-r-a you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

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yes i do sir please proceed mr vicara

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if i may joe no joe you're muted joe you're muted we can't hear you joe you're muted go

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ahead please can you hear me now we can okay mr o'hara have you heard my presentation to the board

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yes and uh do you have anything else to add to it or do you disagree with it in any way

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I'd like to go over a few things the chairman questioned about the high-rise letters on the building.

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They were replaced.

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The previous, it said the watermark, and below it, the watermark had a logo.

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We acquired permits for those.

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Permits were approved, and we fabricated and installed those signs.

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sign number four shows another approved sign by the city and permits were issued

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that show what we were proposing for signs three and five okay that sign is located on 18th street

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um and the sign measures three foot by 12 foot six it met all the requirements the code

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And that sign is tucked underneath an overhang where buses come or vehicles come to deliver patients to the Rehabilitation and Healthcare Center.

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Okay.

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Signs 3 and signs 5 are all on Wood Street, and what we proposed was to cover all the holes left and discoloration from the previous individual letters.

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So if you could go to sign number three, that is towards, it's on Wood Street, and it replaced what was previously on the wall that I assume received the variance because it's above the second floor windows.

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right uh we only squared off where the lettering previous lettering was to cover all the holes

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and install a non-illuminated uh pan sign with individual logo and letters pinned to the pan

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okay the finish would be an a flat color would not be a high gloss finish to the pan and this

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This sign is located where it's the streetscape, so when you're on 2 Franklin Town Boulevard,

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you'll be able to identify the building because everything else is 34 stories up in the air.

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If you go to sign number 5, again, you can see to the left what was there previously,

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and all we're proposing is a 9-foot by 12-foot sign to cover all the previous holes.

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We did seal the holes so no water penetration could come into the building

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after we removed the letters.

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This is an ethos facade for both signs 3 and 5.

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And you can see on your pictures of the elevation all the discoloration that took place

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where the previous letters were located and staining onto the ethos facade and other areas

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we've seen that several times sir thank you

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Mr. O'Hara, have you?

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Mr. O'Hara?

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may i finish

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May I finish?

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We contacted a wall restoration company.

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That's what I was going to ask.

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That are well known for wall restoration, and they would not touch this job.

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They just said there's no way of blending in that ethos where the, obviously, they could cover where the letters were,

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but how would it blend in with the rest of the ethos surrounding the letters?

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because of staining, and how would they blend that in?

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So that's why we came up with a pan to cover all the holes

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and to give them streetscape identification.

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This elevation where you would see the receiving sign from 18th Street,

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the one-way traffic coming towards the building,

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we would remove the existing receiving letters and add them to the new pan sign

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along with the name

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of the location

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of Fountainville.

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Okay, thank you.

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You've answered the question I was

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going to ask, Mr. O'Hara.

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If I could call Mr. Tom Kilcourse.

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And is he going to adopt

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your testimony, Joe? He's just going to adopt

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the testimony, yes. Okay, please, bring him on.

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Mr. Kilcourse.

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Okay. Are you there, Mr. Kilcourse?

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He's been allowed to speak.

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Hi, Mr. Kilcourse, please state your name and spell for the court stenographer.

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Tom, I can't hear you.

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He's muted. Can you unmute, please?

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Tom, there he is.

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There we go. My name is Tom. Last name is Kilcourse, K-I-L-C-O-U-R-S-E.

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All right. Do you swear or firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Please proceed, Mr. Vaccaro.

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Thank you. Mr. Kilcourse, what's your affiliation with the property?

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I'm Executive Vice President of Plant Operations for Marquis.

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And you're part of the owners of the property, right?

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That's correct. I work directly for the owners, correct.

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Understood. Did you hear my presentation as well as Mr. O'Hara's presentation?

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I did.

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And do you have anything else to add to it?

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No, I think everyone has done a good job in describing exactly the issue that we have.

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Thank you.

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And would you adopt my presentation as well as Mr. O'Hara's testimony as if it were your own, as if you were testifying?

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I would.

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Thank you.

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Questions from the board?

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Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?

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Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

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Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

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Yes, Rich Leinbach will be allowed to speak.

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Hi, Mr. Leinbach.

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Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

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Good afternoon.

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My name is Rich Leinbach, L-E-I-M-B-A-C-H.

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I'm with him.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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i do are you with the rco i am i'm i'm with the logan square neighborhood association

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and we conduct we conducted a public meeting on june 25th and there were 38 people in attendance

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uh 16 of which were board members of the logan square neighborhood association

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who voted unanimously to oppose this request for variances.

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Both signs are over the size limit of the code,

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and the 200-square-foot sign is not in the proper location on the building.

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And it was the opinion of the board that complying with the zoning,

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the signage code as to the location and size of the two signs was not a hardship.

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Thank you very much for calling us.

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We appreciate you taking the time.

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Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

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If I may, if I may, Mr. Bergman, I do have a few questions for Mr. Leimbach.

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Go ahead.

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Okay.

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Mr. Leimbach, are you still there?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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It's your testimony that there were 16 board members who voted against, correct?

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Correct.

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how did they're only they're the only ones that are permitted to vote on any rco business

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but there were 38 members of the community in attendance because we don't we don't close the

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meetings to the community they're understood understood and uh that's in your bylaws that

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the 16 board members only get to vote that's correct okay and what was the consensus

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Only gets a vote. That's correct. OK. And what was the consensus among the other 38 members that participated at the meeting?

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So,

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There was nobody voiced any consensus. Did you even ask?

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No. Did you even did you even provide me with the form letter at the conclusion of the RCO meeting?

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besides the email that you sent me

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and the email exchange that we engaged in?

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What do you mean, form letter?

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You mean the meeting summary?

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Yes.

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Yeah, I sent that to you.

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I'm sorry, but I didn't see it.

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I'll take your word for it

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that you sent me the form letter.

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Thank you.

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Are you done, Mr. Vaccaro?

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Thank you, yes.

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All right, is there anyone else in the virtual audience?

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there are no hands planning commission

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thank you chair uh this is keith davis philadelphia city planning commission

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the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the lots existing cmx4 zoning

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there are two sign related variances to consider here one for the orientation of the

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two signs that are in the permit um on the sorry there the permit speaks to two signs

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and the variances are first for the orientation on the building regarding the signs orientation

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the planning commission does not object because the proposed signs are replacing signs at the

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same locations the second variance is in regards to the sign sizes the applicant is requesting a

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103 square foot sign and a 216 square foot sign when a property cmx4 zoning limits each

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sign to 100 square feet so Planning Commission Planning Commission asked that the board grant

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the variance with the proviso that the signs are no bigger in area than the existing 199 and

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the 79 square foot signs

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respectively

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thank you

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