Just two quick ones, when we were talking about job loss and the effects on both of your constituencies, your workers, I want to make sure that we've been clear about what we're going to ask the state for and the city for, and we would love for you to also partner with us. It's not just about job loss, but the full economic impact. Because that's even bigger. That it's, you know -- it -- humans are taking hits; humans lose their jobs, but people pay taxes. You know, there's so many other ways in which what happens when somebody loses the job and then can't do this, the ripple effect that happens with it. And the last thing is, we cannot underscore enough. There has been -- there have been stories on this. The fact that Waymos cannot handle people with disabilities of all types. And we need more ways for folks to get around, to do it safely, to do it compassionately, and to do it in a way that upholds their dignity and respect. We don't want these autonomous vehicles here, just ignoring them and not helping them out at all. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Any further questions from my colleagues? Seeing none, I thank you for your testimony, man. Thank you guys for taking the time to come down here for us today. You know, this is all for me about the workers of Philadelphia and about keeping my neighbors employed. So thank you for your time.
Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Mr. Kunkel, will you please call the next panel to testify?
Stephan Hernandez rideshare driver, member of the SEIU; Alex Kaufman, Phoenix, Arizona Waymo rider; and Mustafa Toure, full-time rideshare driver, People's First Transportation Alliance.
Okay. Good morning, everyone. CHAIR HARRITY: Good morning. State your name for the record, and please begin your testimony.
Good morning. My name is Stephan Hernandez. I am a full-time rideshare driver. I'm here to speak for the thousands of hardworking people in our city who rely on driving Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, and other rideshare delivery apps. For many of us, this isn't side money, this is rent money. This is food on the table. It is how we take care of our families. For me, I take care of my two nephews and my two nieces. I am their guardian and I provide for them; school supplies, school clothes, and outdoor activities, food, everyday trips. Giving them a good life in general. They are my reasons -- they are my reasons I spend 14 hours a day or more working. I do not need to tell anyone that this is -- life is cheap. You get reminded of that every time you flip up your tank, you rent -- your rent check is due, or you're at a grocery store. For me, I'm looking into going to welding school. My goal was to drive the rideshare app for a little while just to pay for that. I have a plan to build a foundation for myself, my family, and driving for rideshare apps is a part of that. But with it being my primary source of income at the time and having so many people to provide for, losing it to a robot will mess up my entire plan. It is just -- it is not just me, there are thousands of rideshare and delivery drivers working in Philadelphia right now. So that is thousands of families who rely on this income every month. Families like mine's who would be at risk if these jobs disappeared. I was working at the airport for the last few months and was let go from that job, so as of now, driving is my main source of income. While I'm looking for a new 32BJ union job, there are many union members who work full-time and depend on these jobs to make ends meet. Now, companies like Waymo want to bring driverless cars into our community. I recognize that new technology can bring improvements and make life easier in some ways, but at the same time, cars do not need drivers. Cars do not need paychecks. Every ride that goes to a robot is a ride taken away from a real person, someone trying to work an honest job. We need policies to ensure that as technology advances, workers are not left behind. In a city where many people are already struggling, replacing workers with machines does not move us forward. How can we put money back into cities if every penny we earn is going towards surviving? I rent in Philadelphia, I'm from Philadelphia, and I want to stay in Philadelphia. But 2,500 every month for rent alone is impossible long term. Both of my neighbors drive for a rideshare. I'll be willing to bet Everyone here knows someone who is dependent on rideshare X. It pushes our most vulnerable neighbors behind. Philadelphia must stand up for its workers and make sure the future of transportation does not come at the cost of the people who keeps the city moving. I hope you, the City Council, take this seriously and work with your counterparts at the state and federal level to look at the impact bringing driverless vehicles would have on the economy, the safety, and the future of the city of Philadelphia. Thank you for your time. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony. Will the next person please state your name and begin your testimony?
Good morning, Council members. My name is Mustafa Toure. I'm a full-time rideshare driver here in Philadelphia. Every single week, I put gas in my tank, I pay for my own maintenance, I carry my own insurance, and I do it all to keep this city moving. This is not a side hustle for me, this is my job; my only job. And I spend my money here in the region. I eat at restaurants in this city. I am not spending my earning somewhere else; I'm cycling them right back into the community. Drivers like me are small businesses. We are part of this local economy. And when you multiply my situation by the more than 60,000 drivers, many of them full-time operating in the city, that is real economic weight. Now seeing that driverless cars could take my passengers and take my income, and there is nothing stopping that from happening. No 4 warning, no transition, no 5 replacement income. I do not have a second job to fall back on. I have a family depending on what I earn, behind that will in a flexible way that works for us. The companies pushing this vehicle will not feel the loss. I will, my family will, and these cities will too, because drivers who are not earning are not spending. I am grateful that you are all with us. I am asking what happens to the people who will be displaced? Right now, there is no 18 answer to that question. And the green light for robots should not come at the expense of my human drivers. We built our lives around this work. We deserve more than being erased by a software update. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony. Will the next person please state your name and begin your testimony?
Hello. My name is Alex Kaufman, and I have a video as part of my testimony first. (Video played as follows:) MALE REPORTER: Yeah. Chandler woman's first Waymo trip going viral. FEMALE REPORTER: New video tonight shows her vehicle making a bold move while trying to make a turn, forcing some of the traffic around her to stop. Take a look. WOMEN VOICES IN CAR: Oh, my gosh. It's like -- it's like inching slowly. No, no, it's going to go after this car. It's not. It better not because Oh my God! Oh, my God! Holy. Oh, my God! My God, my God! My God! My God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Oh, my God! Sorry. FEMALE REPORTER: Oh, no, that is scary. I would've been saying a few other words along with that, the woman is from -- this is -- this video rather is from a woman -- MALE REPORTER: Did Uber post this? FEMALE REPORTER: Oh, yeah, good point. Josephine -- MALE REPORTER: It's like psyops. FEMALE REPORTER: Yeah. She says that this was her first time ever -- oh, man, using a driverless taxi service. Not a great first time. As you can see, it was a lot more thrilling than she wanted. When the car stopped in the intersection while trying to turn, multiple lanes of traffic were oncoming. And the TikTok post has gone viral with 170,000 likes. We did reach out to Waymo, they say they take incidents like this very seriously, and they are investigating. (End.)
As you can see in the video, this past March, I took a walk --a ride in a Waymo in Phoenix, Arizona with my sister and her friend to a music festival. The Waymo app was offering a first ride credit for first time users, which made it cheaper than Uber and Lyft options. And my friend had taken it many times with no issues. So we decided to take one. The Waymo was parked in a parking lot off the side of a busy road with three lanes of traffic on each side of the median. There was another car at the median waiting to make a left hand turn into the entrance that our car was in. It was also 5:00 p.m. around rush hour. And cars in all three lanes were driving around 50 miles -- 50 to 60 miles per hour. The Waymo failed to yield to the car, waiting to make a left, and started inching out into traffic. We were very panicked as we realized the Waymo was going to attempt to make a left turn across the three lanes of traffic while the cars were too close for it -- for it to be safe. After inching out, the Waymo decided to pump the gas, but then got confused by the situation and decided to stop in the middle of the road perpendicular to oncoming traffic. We thankfully did not get hit, but there were multiple cars that had to slam on their brakes to avoid a fatal collision. In the situation, I believe a safe move would've been made -- would have made a right turn onto the road and then make a U-turn when it was safe to do so. If the other drivers had not been paying attention, my sister, my friend and I would've been seriously injured or worse. We felt very uneasy the rest of the ride to the festival, although it went smoothly after that. We contacted Waymo about the incident. They gave us a $10 ride credit to use for our next ride. Then after contacting them again, refunded us in full and then gave us a $40 credit to use for a future ride. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Okay. Well, thank you all for your testimony. Do my -- any questions? Yeah. Councilwoman Lozada.
How easy was it for you to report to Waymo? What -- I mean -- I don't know. I think I'm a chicken in cars just to begin with, right? I don't like -- I don't -- I hate it. But how easy was the process for you to be able to report your experience? And, okay, they gave you $10, that was -- that's not enough, at least not for me, right? The fear that I -- that you experienced in the car at that moment, not knowing if you're going to even get through it, but what was -- what was their response aside from giving you this coupon or discount?
So it was actually my sister that booked the ride on her app. So she was able to go into the app and then report an issue with the ride. And then she basically wrote what happened and sent it in. But I actually DM'd Waymo on Instagram with the video and that's when they reached out, they said, Hey, we credited $10 to your account. And I said, "Watch the video again, please refund us in full. And they said, Okay, we're going to escalate this to our team. My sister ended up getting a response on her end too. And then Waymo actually asked if she would be available to call because they wanted more details on what happened after reviewing the video. And it was fairly easy to contact them though.
Okay. I was curious. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: A human eventually contacted her.
I'm going to share this. CHAIR HARRITY: No, I was going to call you. Councilwoman Landau.
Thank you all for your testimony, especially for the drivers and machinists. This is -- we -- your jobs are so important for us, and we understand how much this is really about your lives. I'm struck by knowing that there is some emergency joystick user out there somewhere, nationally or internationally, that could jump in in an emergency situation, yet you, in the backseat of this car, didn't have that emergency panic button to just, you know, alert them to some way. Like something is going deeply wrong here, and you're just sitting there like you were trapped. It sounds awful, sorry that happened to you. But we know that our wonderful drivers here would never, ever, ever let that happen to you. CHAIR HARRITY: Yeah. I think I'm back in action here. Yeah, there you go. Thank you again for your testimony. Councilman Young.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Did Waymo ever provide you with information like what went wrong with the incident?
No, we never really gotten any information besides it was a technology issue, and they said they would look into it, but we never got any further information than that.
Okay. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: That would be why they called you and got her to explain what happened. That's their liability. They were covering their rear in other words, by doing that. I appreciate you testifying. Yeah, next time get a lawyer though, because - yeah, that's exactly what they were doing, was prying information so that they can defend themselves when somebody sues them. But thank you. And that was -- I'm okay in cars; I drive fast, right? But I don't know about that, with all those hot -- all those lanes. You know what I mean? Yeah. That was just harrowing, so. And for you guys, thank you for coming in and telling your story. That's what it's about. Safety -- the safety is definitely key, but jobs for me are also a very important part of this. And my neighbors being able to feed their children is another. So thank you all for your testimony. Anybody else have any questions for this panel? Man, I'll tell you what, thank you for taking your time and going viral, I'm sorry it's for that, but I know that's an accomplishment because I've never gone viral in anything. But, you know, so I'm sorry that it was a harrowing experience that happened for, but kudos for actually thinking to take the video in the first place so you would have some evidence of it. So thank you again. Mr. Kunkel, I believe we're now going to transition into public comment. Okay? Yeah. Please do the written testimony first.
The written testimony includes Corinne O'Connor, deputy executive director of the PPA; Angeline Jefferson public policy manager at Lyft, Government Relations for Waymo; Senia Lopez, Transit Forward Philadelphia; Paige Carbone, regional executive director of MADD; Denise Brown, written public comment. CHAIR HARRITY: Okay. Mr. Kunkel, that -- we are now going to transition into public comment. I believe we are going to do a two-minute limit, so please adjust your testimony to do it just to accommodate getting it in through time so that we don't have to break and give the stenographer -- so thank you. Mr. Kunkel, please call the first witness to testify in public comment.
Miguel Johnson, Mama Duba, Steven Elliot, Sianna Harris, Yesenia Lopez. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you all for taking the time out of your schedule to come down here and testify today. Could the first person called, please state your name and begin with your testimony.
Hello. My name is Miguel K. Johnson. And I spent with Waymo -- to be -- to be fair. I did give an interview to Technically Philly about Waymo about a year ago -- about a year ago. And my opinion then was that I wouldn't mind testing it in a safe environment. For example, maybe on -- maybe on like the 5K track in fair -- in FDR Park, but on the streets of Philadelphia. We have people who can't drive, so I assume that a machine isn't going to be as helpful. Also in Philly, I think our focus has to be on, yes, protecting the jobs -- the jobs of individuals here who rely on rideshare for their -- for their jobs as well as for public transportation, but also focusing on making sure that our city invests in SEPTA, not Waymo. We are a city that -- if we're going to be a city that's looking at trends of other cities, because that's what Waymo is; Waymo is a trend. It's like -- it's like flying taxis. It looks cool, people think it's okay, it makes the city look modern. You know what else makes the city look modern? Efficient public transit. A city that actually invests in -- we have cities now that are trying to get what Philadelphia already has. Philadelphia has the largest operating trolley network in North America. Why are we not investing more in our trolleys and instead putting something -- perhaps putting something into Waymo. Waymo -- the fact that they're not even here shows us what we already need to know -- need to know. We can't allow for corporations to come into our city regardless of what Harrisburg says. You know, Harrisburg does a whole other issue. Regardless of what any of -- any other entity says, because we, as a city, have our own sovereignty in this matter. And we want to make sure that we as a city do what's necessary for our people and our workers. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you. Please state your name and begin with your testimony.
My name is Steven Elliot. Good morning, Council members. I'm a Philadelphia resident living with Parkinson's Disease. For me, transportation is not just about convenience; it's about independence and safety. There are days when my mobility is limited: when getting in and out of a car is difficult, when I rely on a driver to give me a hand to make sure I'm steady and to help me safely reach my destination. With Waymo, that human support matters. With driverless vehicles, that support disappears. There's no driver to help, no one to notice if I'm struggling, no one to assist if something goes wrong. That's not a small change. For people like me, that is a difference between being able to move through the city safely and being put in a vulnerable position. So when we talk about this technology, we have to ask, who is it designed for? Because right now it does not feel like it is designed for people with disabilities and who need assistance, and it does not feel safe. I understand that -- I understand that the city may not have the power to approve or deny these vehicles, but you do have the power to speak for the people who live here. So I'm asking you to do that. Tell PennDOT not to issue licenses for driverless vehicles in Philadelphia. Tell them that this technology is not ready and it does not meet the needs of residents like me. Because safety is not just about avoiding accidents, it is about making sure people are supported, protected, and will not -- not left behind. Right now, driverless vehicles do not meet the standard. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony. Please begin -- state your name and begin with your testimony.
Good morning, Councilmembers. My name is Mamu Duba, and I represent the Muslim Uber Drivers Association here in Philadelphia. For many of us, driving is not just work, it is how we survive. We are immigrants, we are providers. We work long hours to support our families and build a life here. This job gives us stability, flexibility, and dignity. And now we are being told that driverless vehicles could replace us. That means thousands of drivers in the city could lose their income, not in the distant future, but very soon. And there is no plan for what happens to us next; no transition plan, no protections, no guarantee of another job that pays the same. We are being asked to accept that our jobs can disappear while companies experiment with technology that is still not proven to be safe. That's not right. We are against technology -- we are not against technology; we are against being replaced without a plan. We are asking for something very simple; do not move forward until you understand that the impact on the workers. And right now, that means stopping this before it starts. I understand the city does not control the licensing, but you do have a voice, so I'm asking you to use it. And like brother Sam had mentioned, please tell PennDOT not to issue licenses for the driverless vehicles in Philadelphia. Tell them these vehicles are not welcome here, not until workers are protected, and our jobs are secure because once these jobs are gone, they're gone for good. Thank you.
Do I just go? Okay. CHAIR HARRITY: Please state your name and begin with your testimony for the record. Sorry about that.
No, you're good. It's my, you know, long time listener, first time caller. Hello. My name is Senia Lopez. I am a lifelong resident of the Northeast, and I am here as an Organizer with 215 People's Alliance and also as the Northeast Philly Fellow for Transit Forward Philly. While there are so many reasons we heard about today, why my community and I are against the pushing of autonomous vehicles onto us, I want to speak specifically about the implications this has on our already overcrowded roads and are already underfunded and underutilized public transit system. Earlier this year, I was at a conference in Pittsburgh where operators from the Transit Workers Union presented on what other cities are already starting to do with autonomous vehicles. It was truly an eye-opening and terrifying experience. Self-driving buses may sound like it's maybe a step too far or something we're not going to do yet, but this technology is already being tested in over 35 cities worldwide. And Councilmember Lozada talked about the, you know, tractor trailers and those things that are already becoming autonomous too. There are a lot of implications here. If we allow Waymo and similar businesses to set up shop here in Philadelphia, we will be setting a dangerous precedent to allow the rapid expansion of autonomous vehicles. Similarly to other AI technology, I feel like we all blinked and now it's being integrated into every aspect of our lives. We didn't get to opt in, but it feels like we are at a moment where we can opt out. Autonomous vehicles threaten public transit. A University of Michigan study showed that the introduction of these rideshares, nationally reduced public transit use by over five percent. Autonomous vehicles would make this worse. Autonomous vehicles worsen our car-centric transportation system -- Oh, my goodness -- while presented as a solution. We envision a transportation system that connects our communities, improves our quality of life, makes it safer and more affordable to get around, and reduces environmental and community health impacts. Autonomous vehicles only threaten that vision rather than helping achieve it. There's also a very human element of what our transit operators do. I spoke to a long time bus driver recently about how often they have to help in medical emergencies, both minor and absolutely major. Whether it's passengers on their bus or road incidents that they just view from their seat. My long-term bus driver has helped the community countless times with reporting things like traffic light outages, dangerous snow mounds on the curbs. Plus I would be particularly saddened by losing human interaction there. This is absolutely a safety issue and a jobs issue, but this is a quality-of-life issue. I really think about people like my grandmother who already hates to use her phone more than she has to having to deal with this kind of technology. I don't fully understand the legal language here, but I've been told that we could be asking members of Committee to introduce a non-privileged resolution, asking the legislator to amend Act 130 to remove Philadelphia as a participating municipality within this bill. And I want to finish with just adding that, when I was doing some of the research for my points here in this statement, I had the immense displeasure of being hit with Google AI search results about Waymo. And of course they did not highlight the issues mentioned here today. I am very, very concerned about this consolidation of, you know, knowledge and data that the search engines also own the companies they're reporting on. And I think that it's really great that we're actually listening to experts here today. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony. Please state your name and begin your testimony.
Hello. I'm Sianna Harris. I'm a recent graduate from Temple University. Hello, Councilmembers. My experience as a college student and also a volunteer in the city of Philadelphia, like many others, includes countless tales of issues with public transit and rideshare services alike. Most recently, I can recall several instances of unexpected delays and cancellations at SEPTA subway stations due to system errors and even being unable to travel certain locations due to limited public transportation. Like most college students, when faced with these problems, I've turned to rideshare services, which are not always reliable due to canceled rides and overall safety concerns about traveling in a stranger's vehicles. And while I believe that Waymo's autonomous vehicles would be extremely beneficial to college students and the greater Philadelphia communities as these self-driving cars have reported significantly lower crash rates than human drivers, along with creating safer travel experiences for women and vulnerable groups. And that in the city of Philadelphia it's crucial to be able to navigate freely and independently. And having a system of transportation that allows for users to not have to rely on others will build confidence, self-reliance, and increase the accessibility of transportation in the city of Philadelphia. I also feel that as members of -- as political officials, we have a choice to make in whether we increase spending in the infrastructure in place, to make our definitive stance on whether we want these autonomous vehicles in our city. And I think without putting in serious money to update a lot of our infrastructure, it is inevitable that people start to turn to these autonomous vehicles. And I think whether that be in supporting Waymo or updating SEPTA systems, we have a choice to make in how we provide our most vulnerable populations with access to safe and reliable transportation. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony.
Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Mr. Kunkel, will you please tell -- please call the next witnesses to testify.
Reverend Ian Harris, Madison Nardy, Sam Elliot, Nikia Navarro, Virginia Lynn Hogman, Jonathan Lee. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you all. Please state your name and give your testimony. Please keep it brief. We have a hard stop at 12:30.
Okay. Good afternoon. My name is Madison Nardy. I'm the executive director of 215 Peoples Alliance. We organize residents across Northeast Philly. Last week I came before Council to speak about the proposed rideshare tax because working people should not be forced to balance the budget on our backs while corporations like Waymo continue to extract wealth from our communities. The expansion of autonomous vehicles threatens jobs, raises safety concerns, and contributes to the further disinvestment in public transit. Working people are already struggling with rising costs of gas, groceries, rent, and healthcare while wages continue to stagnate, all while trying to survive on a public transit system that has been systemically underfunded for decades. And despite that disinvestment, SEPTA still moves hundreds of thousands of people every single day with a fraction of the funding of other major transit systems. So instead of seriously investing in public infrastructure people actually rely on, we are using public streets and public resources to help usher in another job-stealing tech corporation that gives nothing back to the communities they profit from. What real economic benefit does this bring to our city when the long-term outcomes is job loss, reduced tax revenue, and more strain on already underfunded public services? And let's be honest about what this really is. Autonomous vehicles are not a public necessity for working people. This is a luxury product being pushed by wealthy tech corporations. And while today this is being framed as a rideshare issue, we all know automation will not stop there. Today, it's rideshare drivers, tomorrow it's SEPTA workers, school bus drivers, delivery drivers, truck drivers, and anyone whose livelihood depends on driving for work. When corporations eliminate jobs, entire communities feel the impact; workers lose incomes, neighborhoods lose local spending, cities lose tax revenue, and public services lose funding. Less wage tax revenue means less money for schools, libraries, transits, and services working people rely on every day while corporations continue extracting wealth and leaving the public to deal with the consequences. And honestly, I think it says a lot that Waymo is not here to testify before the people that they claim they want to serve. If they truly care about our communities, they would be willing to answer questions publicly about the real consequences of this technology. We are headed towards a future where more and more of our lives are becoming automated, isolated, and transactional while corporations call it innovation, and working-class communities are left dealing with the social and economic consequences. Stop exploiting our communities in the name of innovation for the rich. This is bigger than rideshare apps -- CHAIR HARRITY: Please --
This is bigger than rideshare apps. It's more -- it's about what kind of economy and city we are building. Philadelphia should be investing in its people, public transit infrastructure, and good union jobs that sustain our communities, not helping corporations replace workers in the name of convenience and profit. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you. That was very good, speeded that up. Yeah, I love it. Please state your name and begin your testimony.
My name is Lynn Hogman. I'm a longtime resident of West Philadelphia. I'm here to urge City Council to consider enacting legislation requiring that all vehicles on the city's streets have a driver capable of operating the vehicle. As was testified by the first witness, it is true that the city is preempted from regulating the technology of automated vehicles, but that statute does not prohibit everything. If you look at that statute, you will see that it also expressly permits the city to regulate its streets and traffic, provided that it does not discriminate against highly automated vehicles. It would appear that an ordinance requiring a driver in all vehicles operating on the streets could be permitted under that statute. Moreover, requiring a driver in all vehicles is important in Philadelphia because as this was testified, experience in other cities has shown that automated vehicles cannot operate properly without a driver in many circumstances. For example, in San Francisco, driverless vehicles stopped and blocked traffic when traffic lights were out to a -- due to a power outage and over 60 of the vehicles had to be moved manually. These types of events are not compatible with Philadelphia streets or its mass transit system. We are a city with numerous one-lane streets. Indeed, these one-lane streets are not just single isolated blocks, but also include major three streets, such as 47th Street in West Philadelphia. Without a driver to operate and move the vehicle, stopped automated vehicle on a one-lane street completely blocks all traffic. In addition, trolleys that operate on rails are a key part of SEPTA. These trolleys cannot go around a stopped vehicle, therefore, a vehicle that stops on any of the streets on which the trolleys run blocks that trolley line until there is a -- unless there is a driver to move the vehicle. The risk of shutting down a trolley line is not hypothetical. Power outages that affect traffic lights are common, but do not prevent trolleys from running. In fact, we just had one last month on Baltimore Avenue where the 34 T2 trolley runs, and the trolleys run properly despite the traffic lights being up. If there were driverless vehicles on the streets, they would've stopped when the traffic lights went out and shut down an entire trolley line. Thank you. And I apologize for not having a copy of the preemption statute. I didn't realize I was going to testify about that until the first witness. If any of you need a copy of the preemption statute, I'd be happy to send it to you. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Yes. We would love a copy, please.
Okay. To your office or all offices? CHAIR HARRITY: You can send to me, I'll send to everybody, or everybody if you want.
I'll do that today. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you. Please state your name and begin your testimony.
Good afternoon. My name is Nikia Navarro, and I am testifying today as a parent of a low vision child. He is my little boy, my youngest son. A few years ago I moved my family from Boston to Philadelphia -- don't judge me -- because of the incredible care at CHOP. Like many parents of children with disabilities, I came here hoping for answers, hoping for treatment, and ultimately hoping for a cure for my son's low vision condition. While I wait and pray for that cure, I also have to prepare for reality. As a parent, one of the hardest things to think about is the fact that I will not be around for ever to ensure my son's safety, mobility, and independence. Technology is not simply convenience for families like mine, it is hope. In the face of this hope, I just want to share truth about bias. Black males experience highly significant rideshare cancellation rates, often double or triple white riders. Studies found Black males with African American surrounding names face cancellation rates up to three times higher than their white counterparts. Particularly in low density suburban areas, especially in suburban areas, and always in cities. With that said, evidence that suggests discrimination based on Black-sounding names, and in some cases, profile pictures, oftentimes have 35 percent longer wait times before the cancellation. Back to that hope. My hope is that my child can one day move through the world safely and not be canceled on. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your comments. Mr. Kunkel, will you please call the next person to testify?
Hi. Thanks for the opportunity to testify. Long time no see Councilmember Driscoll. I'll keep it really brief. My name is Mitch Channon. I'm a member of 215 People's Alliance. I also live in Northeast Philly. I use SEPTA as my main mode of transportation. I also do use Lyft and Uber occasionally, especially for places that aren't easily accessible by SEPTA or if my bus or my train doesn't come, which happens more than I would like. The main thing I wanted to share, I don't know if this has been said during the hearing yet, but a few months ago I saw a social media post from Senator Laughlin from Erie reposting something about cyber cabs and saying, This is the future of transportation. Giving more money to SEPTA would be like funding horse watering stations. And so I just want to speak to -- a little bit more about the potential impact on public transit. So first, it appears to me that the proliferation of this technology is -- the story that's circulating, is that this is the replacement for public transit. And I -- I'm really worried about how that narrative is gaining holds in state capital that's already pretty averse to funding SEPTA. Second, where I live in Northeast Philly, the traffic is terrible. I would like to understand better if there has been any analysis of the potential impact on transit ridership. If the price point for Waymo is lower than the price for Uber and Lyft, do we expect an increase in ridership for Waymo, a reduction in ridership for SEPTA? And then what is the impact on congestion in my neighborhood, in Center City and other neighborhoods across the city? There's no way to solve the problem of basic geometry with autonomous vehicles. Buses, trains, trolleys transport far more people in a given space than cars ever can, and I think that's another reason why this technology is wrong for Philly. And at a minimum there needs to be really serious investigation of the likely impact on public transit of allowing this to happen. And don't be like Senator Laughlin. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you. Thank you. Sir, please state your name and begin with your testimony.
Yes. My name is Jonathan Lee. Today, I represent two organizations. One is called iRISE, and the other one is AI for Philly. I've been pushing STEM in the hood for 33 years, trying to get more of my race of people involved with artificial intelligence, large language models, robotics, et cetera. I see that as a platform to reduce gun violence, recidivism, et cetera. I actually rode in a Waymo out in San Francisco, and it was funky fresh, but I was scared as hell. I said, how do I get out of this thing if this thing malfunctions? How do I get out of it? So that was a learning experience for me. I definitely applaud City Council. I think in the 33 years I've been pushing STEM in the hood, this is the best City Council and mayor that we have ever had. And I'm not saying it to be superficial, I am very much impressed. And Waymo coming into Philadelphia, what are you going to put in the hood to help reroute our children that are addicted to playing video games? What are you going to help us with social media -- how are you going to help us with social media platforms that are kids are utilizing to shoot and kill one another? What are you going to do Waymo or Alphabet or Google? When I looked at the numbers, $16 billion investment round valuing the company at $126 billion. What's coming into inner city to help our folks? They're swimming in digital technology, but we lack on ramps. And this is what they call us the region of Eds and Meds. Come on. So I love you-all. Rue Landau, Nina Ahmad, Quetcy Lozada, I mean, you-all got jiggy with it today. And under your leadership Councilman Jim Harrity. I am very impressed. Thank you. CHAIR HARRITY: Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Kunkel, is there anyone else to testimony -- testify?
There are no more public commentors. CHAIR HARRITY: No more public comment, okay. This concludes the business before the Joint Committee on Labor and Civil Service and Transportation and Public Utilities today. Thank you very much everybody for your attendance. (Joint Committee on Labor and Civil Service and Transportation and Public Utilities public hearing concluded at 12:30 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the notes taken by me of the above case, and this copy is a correct transcript of the same. ______________________ Samanda J. Rios