civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - February 20, 2024

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Feb 20, 20242h 3m

owner of 469 then i don't think that this board had i i strongly believe the board should uh

Similar wording

uh bifurcate this matter and resume at a at a later date after we yeah i i don't know if

Similar wording

miss fulliborne has any information about whether that property owner is still represented by mr

Similar wording

anastasio uh certainly he's well known to this board myself i can reach out to him uh but

Similar wording

i don't think it's the same property owner anymore actually i do not think mr anastasio

Similar wording

is representing him he the last i communicated with him in 2018 he certainly was not

Similar wording

i i would also say though i the building permit was just issued on february 7th and we absolutely

Similar wording

do plan to appeal it um so i would ask for a stay on that on you know issuing anything else and if

Similar wording

that building permit isn't i mean they're going to start to build when they they should not be so

Similar wording

i mean then they're going to try to claim that you know they've already started to build so i mean

Similar wording

again i i don't have an objection to the idea i don't but because the building permit itself was

Similar wording

not the subject of this appeal uh i do agree and it's correct that that building permit uh again

Similar wording

theoretically it could be appealed here we prefer that building permit third-party appeals from

Similar wording

building permits be taken to the board of l and i review uh you can ask the board of l and i review

Similar wording

to grant a stay or you can go to court and get an injunction but again until the city

Similar wording

wouldn't revoke that permit um you know certainly not until this this matter is

Similar wording

pending so again i i would defer to boards council about what authority this board has

Similar wording

to do anything with respect to you know again either i think it's difficult to hear anything

Similar wording

about the building permit because it's not the subject of this appeal but whether the board has

Similar wording

the authority to grant uh again it's not a you're really asking for an injunction which i don't think

Similar wording

any board has right i agree to grant so uh it's not so much a stay it would be an injunction i

Similar wording

think you have to go to court for that but again i'll defer to boards council and as far as my

Similar wording

case goes i because i think i i would defer my argument and presentation my case until the

Similar wording

resumption hearing okay so hillary we're going to have a resumptive hearing right

Similar wording

do you want to hear your yes we will sorry yes sorry yes i'm sorry i got two hillary's going

Similar wording

one i'm sorry um yes we will we will need to have a a resumption hearing um we will take a look at

Similar wording

our schedule and let all parties know um on on that um and in terms of um in terms of the the

Similar wording

building permit um i mean you can i think leonard i think what we've been doing with those when

Similar wording

they're linked to a specific appeal of a zoning permit just having them both heard by l and i i

Similar wording

mean um by dba because the decision on the zoning permit would affect the building permit

Similar wording

yeah so if you are planning i have no objection to that i mean she could appeal that permit to

Similar wording

this board and then ask that the both matters be you know mushed together that's fine i don't have

Similar wording

an objection to that okay yeah i think i think that makes the most sense if there is a plan to

Similar wording

appeal the building permit that that that comes to the zoning board and that also has a 30-day

Similar wording

timeline um from when it was issued so to bear in mind that okay um that that being said not to

Similar wording

overly complicate it i don't see that a building permit uh has been issued i don't actually even

Similar wording

see an application for building permit but let me just double check that leonard leonard there is

Similar wording

there is one i did see oh i'm sorry i'm looking for yeah my bad i was looking under 469 yeah

Similar wording

looking 467 because why wouldn't i right okay yeah yeah so thanks to everyone we will make

Similar wording

make sure you know when the resumptive hearing is and hillary will try to get this in as quick

Similar wording

as possible um yes mr chair okay your honor i just had one question is so if the building permit is

Similar wording

currently active and if you rule in my favor on this appeal the building permit will have to by

Similar wording

nature be negated because this is not um you know they would have needed to get a variance for the

Similar wording

side setbacks they would have need to get a variance for the lot width so is is not not that

Similar wording

it should be delayed until that you've ruled on that leonard

Similar wording

well again as of right now it's the city's position that the zoning permit is good

Similar wording

As of right now, it's the city's position that the zoning permit is good.

Similar wording

I'm still trying to find the building permit you're talking about.

Similar wording

Are you talking about MP2024-00226?

Similar wording

Is that it?

Similar wording

Because I see three, looks like, plumbing permits.

Similar wording

The owner was aware when they filed, and Ellen and I was also aware when they filed that building permit,

Similar wording

that this appeal has been pending since November.

Similar wording

So the fact that the building permit was issued with this appeal pending, I mean, I feel like notice should have been given to me as the as the appellant that we were that a building permit was issued. I would have appealed it before today.

Similar wording

again a person who obtains a building permit while a zoning permit underlying zoning permit

Similar wording

is the pending an appeal can still get that permit it's just they do so at their own risk

Similar wording

so we the the taking of a somebody taking an appeal from a zoning permit doesn't act as an

Similar wording

automatic stay on a building permit like in other words if you're if you're a third party appealing

Similar wording

the issuance of a zoning permit that appeal doesn't stop the issuance of a building permit

Similar wording

you if you get the building permit you're doing that at your own risk but but so again it looks

Similar wording

like if we're talking about the same permit that was issued on february 7th right yeah that's rp

Similar wording

2023 011

Similar wording

366

Similar wording

you know so

Similar wording

again I can't tell you

Similar wording

what to do but

Similar wording

and I defer to you know

Similar wording

council on what

Similar wording

authority this board has right now

Similar wording

we're going to have a resumptive hearing

Similar wording

as soon as we can

Similar wording

and everybody will be notified okay

Similar wording

thank you thank you very much

Similar wording

thank you

Similar wording

So now we're going to go to number three, MI 2023-001-213-301 Delmar Street.

Similar wording

Richard DeMarco is the attorney for the owner.

Similar wording

Paul Toner is the attorney for Ridge Park Civic Association.

Similar wording

This is a resumptive hearing.

Similar wording

And it's our fourth hearing.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Good morning, Mr. DeMarco.

Similar wording

In preparation for the Zoning Board proceedings today, did you circulate a petition personally?

Similar wording

I did a while ago, and I tried at least two to three times also.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And was that petition, that petition was submitted with our exhibits at the first hearing, right?

Similar wording

That's the same petition, right?

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Explain to the board your experience in circulating that petition.

Similar wording

How did it go?

Similar wording

So initially it went fairly well. I felt like I had quite a few signatures and I had at least

Similar wording

two or three people who were telling me that they would come to the community

Similar wording

meeting. But then after the first meeting and possibly the second meeting, I couldn't get

Similar wording

anyone. And it was a very intimidating atmosphere. And all the people that said that they would speak

Similar wording

for me really didn't speak up. And it was just, from my experience, just a very aggressive

Similar wording

meeting. Yeah. Okay. And did the woman who is along Silverwood Street, the owner of that

Similar wording

property who abuts your property at the back of the property on Silverwood, did she sign the

Similar wording

petition? Yes, she did. And she's been, yeah, she's been like trying to communicate with me

Similar wording

Also, she's like concerned about the trees. And did she? Mr. DeMarco, I agree with that last comment, the hearsay.

Similar wording

So she so, Mr. Chairman, she has submitted a letter that that. Sure. So let me ask this.

Similar wording

So, without without without quoting or speaking about what the owner of the Silverwood property said to you, did she submit a letter to you to give to the board?

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, I do want to note that we previously objected to the submission of the petition itself. As the board and its council are well aware, we have requested that a copy of this petition be circulated. We've sent numerous emails, and Mr. DeMarco simply refuses to share a copy of the petition with the Ridge Park Association.

Similar wording

association. May I respond, Mr. Chairman? Well, wait one minute. So let's go back to his first

Similar wording

objection. I agree any comments that she's had with that is hearsay. And Mr. DeMarco, now you

Similar wording

can respond to the issue that you did not show him the petition. Yeah, the people who signed

Similar wording

the petition were subject, subjected to intimidation, harassment, bullying by, he doesn't

Similar wording

know. Mr. Cohn doesn't know what happened in this case.

Similar wording

It's a red herring, Your Honor.

Similar wording

He's got it now.

Similar wording

If he has the petition,

Similar wording

I appreciate that, and why don't

Similar wording

we continue on? I don't have the petition.

Similar wording

Okay. Well, the board

Similar wording

gave it to him, so he's not being truthful

Similar wording

to you. No. Okay.

Similar wording

So I'm certainly not going to

Similar wording

subject the people who signed the petition

Similar wording

to the harassment of these neighbors. Okay.

Similar wording

Well, let's move on with your claim.

Similar wording

You got it. So...

Similar wording

So, Ms. Epstein, did the owner of the Silverwood property provide a letter to you?

Similar wording

Yes, she did.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And that's part of our exhibits from the last hearing, correct?

Similar wording

Objection.

Similar wording

Hearsay.

Similar wording

I don't have a copy of the letter.

Similar wording

We've requested it numerous times, and he sent the first two compilation documents, and he's conspicuously refused to provide us these documents.

Similar wording

So, Mr. Chairman, that is absolutely false.

Similar wording

I really do not appreciate the lack of truthfulness to you. The second exhibit packet was provided to Mr. Toner. He was copied on the email. He might have to check his email. He clearly is not getting emails from me for some reason. I have proof of the sending of that.

Similar wording

Mr. Toner, have you checked to see if there was an email?

Similar wording

I have, and I've emailed Ms. Emerson separately, and I've copied Ms. Emerson on emails I've sent to Mr. DeMarco. The refusal is conspicuous.

Similar wording

Okay. Well, let's proceed. Can we go past this petition and ask your client on other issues?

Similar wording

I'm going to share my screen and show you the email, which Mr. Tony was copied.

Similar wording

And I really resent the misrepresentation of this board. I'm going to show it to you right now.

Similar wording

Let's put this to bed. You can see it right here. There's Mr. Toner's email. Can you see my screen,

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman? Yes. All right. You can see Mr. Toner is carbon copied on the email for my

Similar wording

supplemental exhibits, which includes the letter of the Silverwood resident who provided it to my

Similar wording

client. You are allowed to accept any types of letters. You take them all the time. It's a

Similar wording

proper admission into evidence. Here, Mr. Toner is telling you he didn't receive it. And here's

Similar wording

the email, which is proof of that. So I'll move on and finish with this. All right. Thank you.

Similar wording

So I'll move on and finish with this.

Similar wording

All right, thank you.

Similar wording

Why don't you move on and finish with your client?

Similar wording

Why don't you move on and finish with your client?

Similar wording

Very well.

Similar wording

Very well.

Similar wording

So, Ms. Epstein, tell the board what you are aware of, having been the owner of this property since you purchased it at Sheriff's Sale.

Similar wording

Tell the board what you know of as far as the difficulties in developing this property for a single family home.

Similar wording

um so i've spoken to a couple of uh real estate developers and they just they mentioned that

Similar wording

okay that's all right no without without just say what you know as far as

Similar wording

okay so from what i can see of the property it is a steep slope and um that would take a lot of work

Similar wording

to, um, raise that so that you could build on it. And that would take, uh, assuming quite a bit of

Similar wording

expense. Okay. Describe the, describe the, um, the conditions of the property as far as the slope

Similar wording

and, um, the, uh, you know, the nature of the, the lot. So yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a strange

Similar wording

shape it's it's triangular it's narrow um and again it's the stoke the it's a very steep slope

Similar wording

okay so like it's i am concerned a little bit especially about the trees on the property

Similar wording

um and the fact that i'm not able to really do anything about that um well explain explain why

Similar wording

that's the case well because of like my concerns about like the trees leaning over onto the street

Similar wording

and people walking by i'm concerned in general about that um and the fact that i really can't

Similar wording

do anything about it um and um what do you mean about uh explain to the board what you mean about

Similar wording

why you can't do anything about the trees on the property like this is i guess is why i'm here

Similar wording

i'm trying to get i mean this is why we're at the hearing so that i can be allowed to uh do

Similar wording

something about the concerns about the trees on that property that's at least part of the reason

Similar wording

why i'm here and when you tried to did your husband do anything with regard to trying to

Similar wording

maintain the property objection okay no it does not call for hearsay so so does her husband do

Similar wording

anything did she observe her husband do any work at a property so go ahead miss go ahead

Similar wording

my husband told me that he was like trimming some of the shrubbery on there and then later

Similar wording

i went back to measure and i you know because when we heard about the concern about heritage

Similar wording

trees we measured everything and we don't actually he doesn't he told me he doesn't

Similar wording

even have tools to even cut a large enough tree that okay well i don't know what you don't have

Similar wording

to i'm almost done miss eston you know i'm sorry can i go ahead yeah please proceed you don't have

Similar wording

to speak about what he said you can talk about what you know and what you are aware of uh i had

Similar wording

asked you uh what is it about the did did you try to did your husband try to do work at the property

Similar wording

he did he was just trying to clean up on the property he was like trying to pick up twigs

Similar wording

And there were, like, I'm trying to think, like, I think that there were some branches and thinner trees that he was trying to clear up.

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And were there violations issued when you tried to cut the trees?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

It was said to me.

Similar wording

So now back to the question, what are your concerns about the trees?

Similar wording

Explain to the board the difficulties in maintaining the property with regard to the trees.

Similar wording

so there are still some remaining trees and they're overhanging the the street in some cases

Similar wording

are just overhanging in general and um people park their cars there and so i'm concerned about that

Similar wording

um concerned about people's safety and their cars period so i'm putting a i don't know if you can

Similar wording

see it on your phone but i'm putting a photo of the property up on my screen are you able to see

Similar wording

that, Ms. Epstein? Yes. Is that your property? Yes. And are those the trees that you're referring

Similar wording

to? Yes. Some of them. Yes. Yes. And I believe that's my, let me stop that. Hold on there.

Similar wording

This should be my last question. What would happen if you were unable to receive the variances

Similar wording

uh that you are requesting for in this case i mean i initially i mean i guess i wouldn't be

Similar wording

able to build on this property i wouldn't be able to have a home here um and i i mean also just like

Similar wording

i would just have to continue on i suppose to keep paying taxes and not being able to do anything

Similar wording

i suppose to keep paying taxes and not being able to do anything i'm concerned about bankruptcy

Similar wording

actually and did you um remove the curb cut that was proposed um initially in this case

Similar wording

yes we did that um to placate the neighborhood um after the meeting so you're willing to move

Similar wording

forward with this project without the curb cut and just for the dimensional variances that are

Similar wording

remaining? Yes. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Similar wording

Tony, do you have any questions? I do.

Similar wording

Ms. Epstein, were you

Similar wording