Madam President, this is a map of the City of Philadelphia. It's police divisions and districts.
I don't think all of the Councilmembers could see it.
We can put it right in front of you and I have a laser and I'll point at it, how's that? Madam President, what you see demonstrates the six detective divisions, each of -- the dark green represents the Northeast Detective Division and Patrol Division, which has four police districts. The light green is East 230 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Division, which has three police districts. This color here -- I have pollen in my eyes. I don't know what we would call that color, but that is, of course, where the 50th and the 10th Wards are, isn't that right, Boss Tasco? So this is the Northwest where we have four police districts as well. The dark brown is Central Division where there are three police districts now. This green is where Councilman Curtis Jones, Jr. and Councilwoman Blackwell represent. This is the Southwest Division. And, Madam President, you represent parts of, of course, South Division, which now has three police districts.
And also parts of, right, the 12th District. Crime occurs geographically, and my desire for us to move towards community-based prosecution will allow us to staff the District Attorney's Office 231 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. geographically. The police are assigned geographically. You have police officers that are assigned to the 18th District every day for several years. They're not assigned to the 18th District for one week and then the 8th District or the 5th District the next week. Crime occurs geographically. There are patterns. There's an entire branch of criminology known as the ecology of crime. There are biorhythms to crime. More cars are stolen every day from one place, the Franklin Mills Mall. You have more shootings and homicides in Philadelphia in the 25th District and in the 12th District. I grew up, as you know, in the 18th District, and where I grew up, if your car got stolen, everybody knew the family of brothers that probably stole your car. They lived on the 6100 block of Catharine. Crime occurs geographically. 232 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Currently, the District Attorney's -- Councilwoman Blackwell knows the family I'm talking about. I won't mention it now because this lady is typing everything I'm saying, but the point is -- but if we're going to more effectively prosecute our cases, we too have to work geographically, so that we can work with the Town Watch groups, the block captains, the clergy, who are working so hard to protect their investments and the City that they love, but it will also allow us to see the criminals and the patterns of crime based on geography. So if ten percent of the crimes were to occur in the Southwest Division, then I would assign approximately ten percent of the DAs assigned to our Trial Division to the Southwest Division, and they would vertically handle the cases from that division. Currently -- you saw the box of files that I have. The DAs gets those 233 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. cases, for the most part, the night before. They prepare the cases. Derek Green worked for me in the Municipal Court Unit and he's nodding his head. So you get those cases the night before and then go to court and do the best job he could with these cases that came from all over the City. But Philadelphia, as you know, is a very parochial city. If I go to your ward meeting and can't pronounce names of the streets in your neighborhood, people will look at me like I have three heads and I don't care about them. The DAs are assigned geographically. They will also become more accountable to the public. And I tell everyone, I hope I can have the stamina that my predecessor had in going to so many community meetings, but what I think is more important is not just does Seth Williams go to these meetings, but do the 300-plus DAs that work for him, are they accountable to the public, do 234 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the public know who they are, do they know how to pronounce Passyunk, where do they get their favorite cheese steak, do they know what goes on in the Northwest and what goes on in these different parks and what streets run -- that Walton Street runs one way towards Cobbs Creek Parkway. That's very important in crime fighting and it's very important also in gaining the confidence of the public that we serve. So that's why I bring this map to every community meeting I go to. And I'm very thankful now that -- I thought it was going to take a long time to get buy-in from the Judiciary, but I'm very thankful as the result of the hard work of Joe McGettigan, Ed McCann and Charlie Erlich and Sarah Hart that Chief Justice Ron Castille and Justice McCaffery want the courts of Philadelphia to move to community and geographic prosecution as well. I believe that will offer tremendous savings both to the victims, 235 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. but also financially, because we lose a lot of cases because the police officer, we just can't find where they are.
Well, if we move to a geographic prosecution, we might have all of the cases from the Northwest might all be on the ninth floor of the Criminal Justice Center, so all of those police officers and detectives subpoenaed that day would be in one location, and we could have all the files from maybe the 14th District would go to Courtroom 907. That would make things much easier and the way I think we would be able to save money, because the DAs would know who to overnight, which police officers need to come to court the next day. They would continuously have the cases. And many victims are just revictimized, because every time they go to court, they get a different Assistant District Attorney, and that will end hopefully with community and geographic-based prosecution.
That 236 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. sounds very good. At this time, the Chair would like to recognize Councilman Jones.
Thank you, Madam President. Mr. DA, this is your first time over here. Welcome.
I read your testimony, and it was extensive. I appreciated the comparisons from Seattle to other cities, and I looked at a lot of your initiatives, the top dozen or so initiatives, but one of them -- and I also was one of the 16 members that came over to the DA's Office at that inexpensive but wonderful lunch. Don't want to impress the press that we ate lavishly, but it was nice. But I remember distinctly when you were giving us an orientation and with the other Assistant District Attorneys, many of whom are here, that 237 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. when we talked about the issue of witness intimidation, there was almost unanimous head nodding from them, which said to me we were onto something that mutually is important both to you as the District Attorney and us representing constituents that are sometimes often victims of crime. If there is two things in your platform that I'm hoping you get enough resources to have success at, one of them is that witness relocation and witness protection legislation.
Because when I talk to people on the street, it is not the court cases that are backlogged. It's not whether or not -- the uncertainty of this or that. It is the fear often of retaliation of bad actors that they are forced to sometimes live among, go to school, work and play around that pushes people to the point where live and let live or I'll seek my, worse, 238 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. I'll seek my own street justice. So I want to know how we can help you to deal with that when you cited that you are only able to do -- and this probably includes your predecessor -- to get cases of witness intimidation. It 8 is a common practice in barber shops and 9 beauty salons, commonly known that that 10 is a part of the, quote, game, and we 11 have to send the message. 12
You have to 14 send the message, we have to send the 15 message that that is unacceptable. 16 So how do we kind of move that 17 process forward and how does a City piece 18 of legislation interact with the State 19 witness intimidation stuff? How will 20 that help?
I appreciate the question. I also thank you for your leadership, and that after that meeting, your staff spoke frequently with my staff about ways in which we could address 239 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. witness intimidation. So I'd like to thank you for that. I think really, again, it cuts to the core of people's belief that the system works and if it's going to be fair and if it's going to be effective. And we have to ensure that witnesses are protected. We have to ensure that people that try to intimidate, try to harm, try to kill our witnesses, that they're prosecuted. That's not just talking tough. We have to do that to protect those people who chose -- they didn't choose to be a victim. We have to ensure that they come to court, like we have to ensure the protection of the judges. Like my protection is secured every day now. And we have to invest to make that happen. We're very lucky that to date some judges, like Judge Renee Callwell Hughes, she's almost created a bench book, a book for other judges on what to do so they can identify intimidation that 240 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. might occur in the courtroom. So when that happens, she has a book she tells the judges what to do, how to ask the people in the courtroom what their names are, how to direct the police to investigate it and do things right there in the courthouse. Well, it's rare that judges do that. So I'm very glad that she's sensitive to that. So we have to educate the other judges, but that's, like I said earlier, the lowest of low-hanging fruit, those cases that happen right there. The majority of these cases happen out at 54th and Berks while people are waiting for the bus or on the school yard. And we have to ensure that witnesses that have been intimidated know what to do, that they can call this hotline, that they can call 9-1-1 maybe, and that there's a follow-up and that we investigate those cases and that they're not just put at the bottom of the wheel for the next time around for the 241 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. detective to be assigned. Those are cases almost similar to the homicides that we have to act on immediately. And so this investment that we're asking -- and if you care to give more, make a love offering, that would be great, so that we could have more prosecutors and more investigators investigating that.
So that we could investigate those cases, because, again, they're time intensive. There are a lot of issues involving those witnesses to ensure that they want to come, and so that we can ensure them that they're protected. And there's a lot that our victim service advocates have to do to befriend them and to cajole them and to get them to come and feel they're going to be safe. It takes a lot of work. So that's how I think that investment would help us make a statement and prosecute 242 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. those individuals and make our victims safer.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. That Back on Track program certainly sounds like a great program, but just so I'm clear on it, this is something that would -- would the defendant agree to participate in it ahead of time?
Right. I didn't want to go into all the weeds earlier, but I'm glad you asked the question. The Back on Track program, like many of our programs, is a diversionary program where we would identify defendants that we 243 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. think are appropriate. So that everyone knows, the District Attorney in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is given the sole discretion as to who gets prosecuted. No one can make a District Attorney prosecute anyone, no matter what the crime is, but we also have the sole discretion to determine how to handle those cases. So we have the Accelerated Rehabilitation Diversionary program, ARD, across the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania where we put people in the program where if they don't do a bad thing during this period of time, we expunge their record. Well, the Back on Track program is like the ARD program on steroids, because ARD really doesn't address whatever the issue is that caused the person into their criminal behavior. The Back on Track program focuses on those young, most likely non-violent offenders that are selling drugs, primarily young men that have made a poor decision because either 244 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. they feel as though they have no hope or they have no opportunity for economic advancement, no jobs, but they're making a bad decision because they think that if they start selling crack, they're going to get speedboats and become millionaires, but the reality is that they're the people who are most at risk of getting arrested, most at risk of getting shot. The young kid selling crack on the corner is making about $8 an hour. It's a bad economic decision. They'd make more money if they went to ShopRite, bought a case of water and sold them for a dollar a bottle. The Back on Track program, we identify those individuals that we think are appropriate, non-violent offenders who are selling an amount of drugs that could send them to the State prison. We then have them go through an orientation program with a community group that we identify, like OIC or the National Fatherhood Comprehensive Center, an 245 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. organization we've identified, to go through orientation. We help them get literacy training, because, again, the number one thing people have in common that get arrested in Philadelphia, they didn't finish high school. They're going to do community service. They're going to go out and clean up crack vials and remove graffiti and do public service. They're going to learn a real job skill. And then after they complete the program, if they complete it successfully, then they have no record. So, yes, we identify the people, or some of their lawyers, I'm sure, will ask us to review the cases and see who should be in it. Then we identify who should be in it. They complete the program and then they have no record. And it costs $5,000 per person per year in San Francisco, where the cost of living is higher than here. And there's only a five percent recidivism rate, as I said earlier, where 246 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. we're spending $40,000 a year for these same people to go to State prison and 73 percent of them re-offend.
So this will actually be ordered by -- it would be a court order sort of?
Well, this would be a program where we identify them. I'm sorry. I did not answer that, you're correct. We identify them. They enter a no contest plea to the charges, and if they successfully complete it, we expunge their record. If they do not, then they're going to go to jail for that year. So that's like the sort of Damocles over their head that if they don't do it, then they are going to go up. And we'll take them on a trip one day during their orientation up to Graterford to see what is possibly in store for them if they don't complete the program.
The old 247 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. scared straight idea. On one other issue, and I know a number of us, Councilwoman Miller, Councilwoman Sanchez and myself, have been real concerned about the whole property theft, false deeds issue, and I know you have indicated you want to kind of ramp up the enforcement of that. Can you go into that just a little bit?
Right. We have -- and Curtis Douglas is here. He is the Deputy for our Investigations Division. There's a Special Investigations Unit, an Economic Crimes Unit, and one of the Assistant District Attorneys recently successfully prosecuted a case in which a corrupt organization had stolen what I believe is several hundred properties.
Eighty-one properties were involved in the actual case. It came down --
I'm sorry. You need to come to the 248 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. microphone, please.
So I'll ask Mr. Douglas to come forward. But we prosecuted that case, and I think he said there was 81 properties that ended up being as a part of it. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon, Councilman and Madam Councilwoman, as well as Councilpersons. Curtis Douglas from the District Attorney's Office. That case involved 81 properties. We got approximately 323 guilty counts on three persons who were involved in that case. It was 81 properties that were stolen, resold and use of notarized documents and deeds that were used. And we also have other cases that are in the system right now in which we're actually prosecuting or will come to trial on other cases involving property theft. But that one case in particular -- and the sentencing is April 249 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. 30th, and courtrooms are free to the public. I invite all to come and see the sentencing April 30th.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Great. I have a couple questions. I was at a community meeting last week regarding a drug house, drug activity, and there were two DAs there, one from the Nuisance -- I don't have the cards with me, so I can't remember their name -- and one that's assigned to the 14th District. Now, the DAs are assigned to the police district, correct, not the detective district? 250 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
Well, we have a Public Nuisance Task Force, Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller, and the DAs in that unit are assigned geographically, and there is a District Attorney who is assigned to handle cases of nuisance properties in the 14th District.
Only. Well, that individual, I believe, handles four districts throughout the City, one of them being the 14th.
Okay. And then we had another DA who actually described herself as being the District Attorney assigned to the 14th. She wasn't Nuisance. I know her name --
Most likely that was a prosecutor who was assigned to the Repeat Offenders Unit that handles repeat offenders in the Northwest Division, of which the 14th District is one of them.
I was just trying to figure out whether -- when 251 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. you watch Law and Order, as you always ask people if they watch Law and Order, when you watch Law and Order, you do see the same District Attorney.
And I know it's a TV show, but you still see the same District Attorney. So I'm just wondering if this is -- because I do think there's some value of assigning District Attorneys to districts, because then they become familiar, people become familiar with them, the issue of trust, all that is really good. I was just wondering as a follow-up to that particular meeting, my office did some research, and I gave it today to Vernon and I'm going to give him the name of the DA so we can figure out how we work together, along with the Police Department, to address this particular drug house issue.
Very well. Well, then before I leave, I'll give you 252 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the phone number for Beth Grossman. She is the Chief of the Public Nuisance Task Force.
Right. I do know Beth. I know Beth, but I wasn't familiar with the two that came to the meeting last week.
Right. But, see, there you see the benefit of community-based prosecution by having the specific District Attorneys handling cases. Council, you are assigned geographically, the ten of you that represent councilmanic districts geographically. You handle those areas. You know the names of everyone in the West Mount Airy Neighbors, the East Mount Airy Neighbors, all those different folks. You're assigned geographically. You handle those cases, those constituents. Similarly, if we assign our DAs geographically, they'll come to those 253 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. meetings, they'll be more accountable to the public. They'll also hear the problems, because there are different types of problems, as I was trying to show with the map earlier, geographically. The people in Pine Valley have different concerns maybe than people in Mantua or the people in --
In Germantown. And so assigning those DAs geographically, they can then work with those communities to solve the problems in their neighborhoods.
And you will also get to know the names of the DAs that are assigned and the chief of the geographic area that you will have direct contact with.
Now, they won't be the ones doing the prosecution, though. As your example, say, if the 254 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. 14th District cases are being heard on the ninth floor, that would be a different group of DAs.
Now, the Public Nuisance Task Force DAs, they don't prosecute those criminal cases. They handle the cases in which individuals are -- they have a crack house or they have a house of ill repute or there's a speakeasy. They handle taking those cases to civil court and getting them forfeited civilly. But the DAs that will be assigned geographically will be handling the criminal prosecutions from those neighborhoods, both in going to meetings and learning what the problems are in the community groups and also trying those cases at the Criminal Justice Center or at Broad and Champlost, as it were for 255 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the Northwest Division.
I have another quick question before the bell goes off. When you talk about those people being arrested -- the rearrest record is 73 percent, and then with your Back on Track program or your diversion program, do you work along with the Parole Department or Probation Department to decide what is a violation? For example, if you don't want to prosecute low-level marijuana, but if I'm on probation, if I have marijuana on me, doesn't that mean that I violate it?
Judges have -- you can be in violation both of a direct violation -- that means you have a new case that you are convicted of -- or you can be in technical violation. A technical violation is when a judge has determined to put you on probation, which 256 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. is in lieu of going to jail. So they put you on probation. They might tell you, you have to get your GED or you have to try to get a job or you have to -- whatever they say, you have to try to do, and if you don't do those things, any of those things could be a technical violation. One of them the judge might order that you remain drug free. If you are found to test positive for some form of a narcotic or some sort of drug, then the judge could find you in technical violation and then could impose a sentence of incarceration. So that's totally up to the discretion of the judge. Now, the probation and parole officers, they work as the arm of the judge in the field, because Judge DeFino, Judge Renee Caldwell Hughes, they can't just go out checking on people in the neighborhood, so that's why they have the Probation and Parole Department to do that for them. 257 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. So, yes, if you have the narcotics on you, that could be a direct violation. If you test positive, that would be a technical violation.
So then when you talk about getting people to not be incarcerated but maybe in a program, then who makes that decision? Because I personally know that some people that are violated -- commit a violation on parole/probation, the violation is not all that great and wonderful. I mean, it's like they really need to go to drug rehab versus being put back in prison and incarcerated. And when you talk to some of the people that have been incarcerated and they talk about why people are returned to prison, which, of course, impacts our recidivism rate, some of the reasons that they were rearrested are just not that serious, and I'm wondering who eventually has an impact on that. Because until that changes, we're going to have a lot of people that are in 258 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. prison versus being in treatment.
That's a very good point, and that's something that Ms. Sarah Hart, who is the Deputy of our Policy and Performance Division, is working on so that we can reduce the number of people that are being incarcerated on State Road that are non-violent, who -- and you're right. There's two ways those things happen. You can get rearrested, and what happens, you go -- the judge -- you could have a detainer, which once you get arrested for this new thing, a detainer is lodged and you go to State Road to live there until the judge will have a hearing for you. So we can change some of the policies so that if fewer of those detainers get lodged possibly by working with the Probation and Parole Department, the judge is to come up with a different protocol for which cases that would result in, and then also the District Attorneys are in the courtrooms making an 259 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. argument, as does the defense attorney, when the judge is having a hearing, a violation of probation or a violation of parole hearing. So at the VOP hearings, the DA can make an argument as what should happen or what shouldn't happen. And so, again, it's going to be a cultural change to start arguing that we have to ensure that we're putting people in county facilities that are more violent or that people who are going to stay in prison are violent people and we're not sending or maintaining an inventory, we'll say, of 60 percent of the people being non-violent. But those are policies that we'll have to work on.
And that's something that we are committed to doing so that we can ensure that we can reduce recidivism and that we have truly violent people incarcerated and we find alternative means, either electronic monitoring, ankle bracelets for different 260 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. people, day reporting programs, all of which might be alternatives to us incarcerating them on State Road.
Good afternoon, and thank you very much for your strong commitment to fixing the justice system.
You're doing a good job, and I certainly appreciate the initiatives that you have set forth. At the end of the day, if it saves money, saves time and saves stress, it will be money well spent. My issue is the Nuisance Task Force.
Well, 261 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. that's done. We had a dedication the other day. It's going commercial.
But what we see in the community are -- I just had a shooting up on Rising Sun Avenue, at a bar at Rising Sun and Alcott. Across the street is another establishment where we believe there's activity going on there. I want to, not now, but talk to you about how aggressive we can be, which sends a message that we're not going to tolerate the kind of activity that they use houses for, that houses can be forfeited under -- can they be forfeited under the Nuisance Task Force, that bill?
And if the bill is not strong enough, how can we strengthen it.
Because like you said, you talked about change their behavior. 262 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc.
So you change behavior if people understand that what they're doing, they will lose their property, their business. And if we do more of that, because I'm going to -- I will be sending you more cases and working with your -- who is Nuisance in here?
Beth Grossman works for Mr. Brian Grady. Brian Grady is the Deputy for the Special Operations Division and she comes under his supervision.
Right. I did meet with her. I have several places I want to just sit down and talk with her about, because I think once we send that message, because constantly we report it, we report it. The police even tell you what's going on at the site, but even if the people get arrested, they go away to come back, and it's the same site over and over and over again. I think we need 263 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. to -- while the Jaguar is an example, there are many more sites that can be handled under your department, so we will be talking to you about that.
Very well. Thank you. And I think, again, as we do community-based prosecution and with the Public Nuisance Task Force, I think it's imperative that we change the culture, we change the perceptions, that people know that the District Attorney's Office is a protector of the community and not an oppressor of the community. In too many communities people look at us as an oppressor, and we have to make sure they know that we're the protector of the community. And working with community groups -- another issue that we have to make sure you understand is that it takes the cooperation of the community.
We have to work with the community, because the community 264 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. has to help us identify those problem places. The Public Nuisance Task Force works with them to build up a strong case, showing what's going on in those properties, so that we can then go to civil court, have members of the community come to court and to identify how that property has had a deleterious effect on the quality of life in that neighborhood. Not how it just violates zoning, but how it is the source of crime and violence in that neighborhood. And so, again, a common theme is that the District Attorney's Office has to be a real partner with the community and the community groups to prevent crime.
Well, I also believe that we have to help the neighbors understand, because a number of them want something done, but they don't want to personally get involved.
And under the Code, we have to have witnesses from 265 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the community testify.
With the Jaguar, we had a meeting with 60 or so people in the rain, and I think we only had two or three people to testify. So that's another problem. So I explain it to them when they complain that they have to be involved and they got to -- but they also have to feel confident that you're going to protect them.
That's correct. And, you know, for ten years I was the President of the Overbrook Park Civic Association and Town Watch, and we worked with then-Councilman Nutter and now Councilman Curtis Jones, Jr. to ensure that the neighborhood stays safe. But that's an example of an organization where the District Attorney's Office works with them and works with the Councilperson. We can get rid of those nuisance properties.
Thank you 266 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. very much, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you. Let me also say thank you. We love your creativity, the fresh energy and all that you are doing in this office. I just wanted to mention two issues. One is our Night Court. You know in the 18th, we love Night Court. We had Night Court every Friday to the extent that people wouldn't -- with those who were drinking out of open containers and all kind of nuisance and misdemeanors. They wouldn't do them on Fridays, because they knew that's when they'd get picked up, so that kind of hurt us, but that works well. We like that. I want to know your opinion on that, and also we've been concerned and 267 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. we've talked about it in past years about probation/parole offices in schools where there are a lot of young people who are and who are on parole, so that they 6 don't have to leave school and then we 7 can keep them there and try to do 8 something with them. I wanted to know 9 your feeling about that and what you 10 think the possibility of it is for it 11 being expanded. 12
Councilwoman 13 Blackwell, I think, one, the idea of 14 Night Court has been very effective in 15 Philadelphia. I think, again -- that's 16 an example of community-based justice 17 that you, I know your husband was a 18 proponent of it in its time, and Councilman Jones is a proponent of it now as well. Having -- and Mr. McCann, Ms. Hart from my office, many of my staff went to Brooklyn to visit the Community Justice Center. I know some of you had. We had a presentation here last, I 268 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. believe, March for Council to see what works in Brooklyn. We went to the Midtown Community Justice Center in Manhattan. Those are examples of being able to address problems quicker in the community right where the things happened. In Brooklyn, often people will get arrested for graffiti one night, they're held in a little holding cell overnight, then they come before the judge the next day, and maybe later that day or the next day, they're out removing graffiti. And that's how we're going to change behavior. Again, it's not the severity of punishment that changes behavior. It's the certainty of punishment. And doing it quicker in the community where people might not get -- they're not going to go to jail for 20 years, but they know that something happened immediately, that's how we can change behavior. That's how the community will see that something happens 269 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. and something positive happened as a result of that defendant going through the system in the community. So that we have youth aide panels in the community, as you know, the different police districts, but I think having more Night Court but, most importantly, having community-based justice centers will be very effective.
We liked all of it, and we did assign them to help clean up alleys and --
Right. And the second part of your question, Councilwoman, dealt with parole officers and probation officers in schools. Now, I'm not the biggest proponent of militarizing schools and having more police officers in schools. I think we need to ensure that the school teachers and the non-teaching assistants, the NTAs, when I was in public school here, that we give them the authority to do what's necessary to ensure the safety of 270 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the school. I don't want police officers and lots of weapons in schools patrolling schools, but I do think we have to work with the Department of Human Services, Judge Kevin Dougherty to ensure that we're cooperating. And I had them come to my office and meet with my senior staff. Commissioner Anne Marie Ambrose from DHS came to talk, so we can begin that process. I think we have to, of course, find ways to reduce truancy. Fifty percent of all the public school students in Philadelphia drop out, and we're not going to have an economy of the future if our people are illiterate, if they can't function in society, if they can't use even Lotus Notes, which we have in the DA's Office, which is an outdated computer system. So we have to move forward and we have to reduce truancy. I believe having the DHS workers and truancy courts throughout the 271 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. City and that many of the clusters would be very helpful. Having the truancy officers and having the juvenile probation and patrol officers in close proximity can be very helpful as well.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.
Thank you. These questions are submitted on behalf of Councilwoman Maria Sanchez, which I gave you a copy of, so the opinions expressed today don't necessarily reflect those of the Councilman of the Fourth District, but we're going to get them in the record.
Number one, she had an issue of consumer protection and mentioned that you are a strong proponent of making sure that there were consumer protection laws and a unit that dealt with that and that you would add personnel to a unit to do that. That was the first question.
Currently, if there are issues of consumer protection, that could be handled in our Investigations Division, in the Economic Crimes Unit. We also have a Government Fraud Unit. We have an Insurance Fraud Unit. So those units and that division could handle those cases. We will continue to search for grants and funding so that we have additional staff to prosecute those types of cases, which I think we have to protect Philadelphians. I received a letter from one of the City Commissioners today where that City Commissioner wanted me to be aware 273 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. of how she thought she might have been the subject possibly of a fraud. So we investigated that. But for the most part, the prosecution of those cases is taken care of by the Attorney General for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania, and that we primarily have dealt with more of the street crimes that are so rampant here and affect Philadelphians in a greater and a more tangible way. But if we had more funding, if she wanted to foster -- put forward some sort of resolution to fund us additional prosecutors for that, then we'd try to find a way for them to do just that.
I will forward that comment to Councilwoman Sanchez. Her second issue was that the DA's Office has not historically taken wage theft cases on and that these cases particularly target vulnerable immigrant 274 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. communities involving usually businesses such as contractors or downtown restaurants, who then steal wages from people who are working there that have language barriers often and other things like that.
Right. And that's important. Again, that comes down to information and communication and education. And we do have -- approximately various languages are 13 spoken by members of the District 14 Attorney's staff, but, of course, we have 15 to be able to produce pamphlets and get 16 information out so that individuals that 17 are in Philadelphia that might work in a 18 restaurant where maybe their boss is 19 stealing wages from them, not paying them 20 what they deserve, that is a theft, and 21 those crimes will be prosecuted by our 22 office. But, again, many people just 23 don't know. Many of those people are 24 just glad to have a job and think if they 25 tell someone, they might just get 275 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. deported back to wherever they came from and they're afraid -- and their bosses know that and, in some ways, prey upon them for those purposes and those reasons. And so, again, we have to try to find a better way to educate the public, to educate that population of people that might fall into that crack so they know how to go about receiving some form of justice when that has happened to them.
Councilwoman Sanchez's third issue is language access, which you touched on a little bit, but also wanted to cite that it is required under the federal Civil Rights Act that people be provided translators and issues like that and wanted to know how you were addressing that.
Sure. Today is my 100th day. I think I'm making my First Assistant lose hair and his hair is getting even whiter, because I demand we 276 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. move faster, do more things, and he really wants me take a breath every now and then. But I would like to create a program maybe in conjunction with the Temple University Center City campus where we get people who are earning a Master's degree in the education of a language to be able to come over as part of maybe them getting their Master's degree or their certification to teach members of our staff, be they support staff or prosecutors, some of the various languages that the victims speak, if it's Spanish or Korean. We have a very large and growing Russian population in Philadelphia, to teach those languages so that our prosecutors, our victim witness coordinators, our support staff could better communicate with those individuals in Cambodian, Vietnamese. We have a very large Cambodian and Vietnamese population in Southwest Philadelphia, so that we can better serve the people that live in 277 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Philadelphia.
Councilwoman Sanchez's fourth issue was expungements and said that some of the ADAs refuse to grant expungements, and I'd be interested also to know what the policy is on expungements.
In statute it talks about expungements and the right of expungements. If you've been convicted, you can't get your record expunged. The only way you can get that cleared up is if the Governor will take care of that for you, and that rarely happens. But people who have been arrested and there was no conviction can file a motion. A defense attorney has to file a motion for them on their behalf on the second floor of the Criminal Justice Center. They go ahead and then have a hearing in Motions 278 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Court, and if the District Attorney, if a member of my staff, feels as though it's inappropriate for that person to get an expungement for whatever the reason is, then the argument is made that it's inappropriate. For the most part, when the person -- their record is such that they were arrested, there was a not guilty verdict, for the most part we won't in the future oppose that person getting their record expunged. But people that go into the diversionary program sometimes don't recognize the extra steps that they might have to take.
I think that's her point, Mr. District Attorney, that why wouldn't that be an automatic kind of thing when someone is found not guilty.
Right. And that's why in case -- like now I'm a proponent of Senate Bill 99, which has been the parent accountability act, which 279 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. has been proposed by State Senator Anthony Hardy Williams. There was language in that bill that would make -- after the defendant -- after the parent completed the programs, that their record would be expunged. Well, when we gave testimony in support of it, we said that we had to make the language even stronger so that when the person finishes that, it's automatic expungement and that we really detail how that gets done. So we're going to actually more proactively work in the appropriate diversionary programs to ensure that the defendants' records are expunged.
Is that something that this body can do or is that at the State --
No. That is something that the General Assembly has to address.
280 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. Councilman, I'm sorry. Your time is up.
Thank you. Councilman Green, Councilman Kenney would be next. Are you going to keep up to the five-minute --
Thank you, and I will remind you of that. Please proceed.
Thank you. Hopefully that talk didn't cost us any of my five minutes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. District Attorney, it's 281 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. good to see you here.
I enjoyed your testimony and I think -- I just want to note for the record that you're the first department that has come before City Council seeking additional funds -- many departments are -- that has specifically told us what the return on that investment would be. It's a significant return, $7 million for $1.8 million.
Right. And we think that's a conservative estimation on our part.
Well, I was just going to say I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit, because as pointed out, you're at the fulcrum of the criminal justice system and we can't achieve savings anywhere without you being -- you're sort of the keystone really of the system in the sense that you're required to agree to every change 282 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. that's happening. I mean, I don't think you gave yourself enough credit with the 3,000 marijuana things that are going to essentially become the same sentence but without having to go to court. I think the diversionary programs when -- I'll just give you a few examples. When Everett Gillison testified about some of these programs, day reporting, he'd like to see that grow to two to three hundred people. Frankly, I think that's conservative. That wasn't mentioned in your numbers. There's GPS for pretrial detainees who --
That's several hundred people that he'd like to see it grow to three to four hundred people. We went through a bunch of things and he rattled off quickly six to nine hundred people who won't be in the Philadelphia Prison System as a result of 283 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. CJAB's policies and specifically we talked about your new policies --
-- in his view. And then if you look at those 3,000 people, I got the Prison to break down sort of how many of those would be in prison at one time, and the average pretrial detainee is there for three or four months, so you can say that reduces the population by another 750 people, because that's how many people -- if it's 3,000 over the course of a year, the average stay is three or four months, divide 3,000 by four. That's 750 people fewer in our Prison System. So that gets us close to 1,500 fewer people potentially within a year, but let's be conservative and say it's not 400, as you're suggesting, but 750 less. We're talking savings within the Prison System of at least $10 million, I think, and police overtime. The impact on police 284 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. overtime of all of the policies you mentioned is tremendous.
It's 18,000 court appearances for police just for those 3,000 marijuana offenses at four hours per person per appearance. So I just want to be completely supportive of you and thank you for coming in with numbers, that they're conservative, because you probably would guess that we'll hold you accountable to them if we give you the extra money, so I think that's wise, but I enjoyed your testimony and I look forward to supporting you in this effort.
With respect to -- you and I spoke the other day and we talked about community courts. For the record, could you just describe what you think -- you visited Red Hook. Could you describe what you think we would be 285 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. able to achieve in Philadelphia over the next couple of years? I recognize that we have to involve all stakeholders and it will take some time.
Right. Well, I would envision in a Community Justice Center, it might be best to try to identify one place to start first and to then find a location that was easily accessible to many people in that division, that one of the six detective divisions via public transportation and a facility that would also be allowed -- that would allow us to have enough space where we can have all the different social service agencies, DHS, the Parole and Probation Department could have a facility there, there would be places for possibly job training, literacy training and a courtroom office space for the District Attorney, office space for the Defenders Association. And so the time to identify that, we're beginning to work with -- I'm 286 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. going down to the National District Attorneys Association this week to talk about community-based prosecution and justice centers. I think, though, that with the proper funding and an intensive use of our resources to make it a reality, if we had the political reality to get it done, that we could do it within two years, and then to be able to, in the years after that, to see the real benefit of expediting cases through there. The misdemeanor cases can go there, and it would have a tremendous savings, I think, in the long term. I'd like Mr. McCann to answer a little bit more. He just got back from Red Hook. MR. McCANN: One thing in addition to what the District Attorney said, Councilman Green, is that we can get to, as the DA likes to say, the Saturn model before we get to the Rolls Royce model, and we're already having discussions with the Municipal Court and 287 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. the Defenders Association about getting to an arrangement-based model to dispose of misdemeanor cases. As the District Attorney has said many times, it's the surety of punishment. And as you know, these misdemeanor cases are typically listed multiple times, two, three times, court overtime, multiple appearances by victims, defendants, defense attorneys. What we want to get to is, before we get to the total community court model, to at least have a model where there's a chance of disposing a significant number of misdemeanor cases within hours of 17 arrest. And we have been discussing that 18 already and hope that we can get to that 19 in a shorter period of time than the time 20 period that the District Attorney is 21 talking about. 22
And that's 23 terrific. And would that have an impact 24 on the prison population also? MR. McCANN: I think it would 288 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. have a tremendous impact on the prison population. And there's another thing that we're doing with the Defenders Association, and, that is, on misdemeanor cases where a defendant is on a Municipal Court judge's probation, not a Common Pleas probation, they're listing these cases in the crash court and doing video hearings. We're going to increase that number hopefully within the next few weeks up to 60 to 80 cases a week. So that should have an impact on the prison population as well, because typically those cases are disposed of by the video hearing and a defendant is no longer in custody after that.
Thank you, Mr. McCann. Being conservative, what would you say the impact of those two programs, which are not mentioned in the testimony, would have on the prison population? MR. McCANN: Well, certainly if 289 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. we can do 100 or 160 video crash court hearings a month where, say, 140 of those defendants are released from the prison, I mean, you can do the math from there, but I think that that's a possible outcome here. Because both sides, we've talked about this, the Defenders and us. We've met face to face several times. We're meeting again next week to set this up.
I will be much shorter, I promise. 290 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. I don't have a question. I just want to make a comment. Within the last hundred days, there has been a leap of change in this department and in the environment that I think you and the team that you put together have helped foster. It's not just lock them up. There is another side to your approach and to your philosophy. I've admired the way you've handled the police shooting as quickly as you did and as forcefully as you did and I think obviously the correct decision. The flash mob prosecutions and cooperation with the court and the message that was sent to the community I think has been very effective. I don't know if it will stop it forever, but at least people know that the law enforcement folks and the DA's Office are serious. But there's a whole different attitude and a whole different atmosphere I think not only in this body because of 291 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. your cooperation with us and bringing us over to your shop and spending some time with us and inviting our staffs to come over and spend some time in your shop to let us know what you do, because to tell you the truth, I don't think I had ever been in the District Attorney's Office until I was invited by you and your folks. But I think that the atmosphere on the street is one of trust and it's also one of understanding that wrongdoing is going to be dealt with forcefully and fairly, but not capriciously and not in some crazy extent, that there's room to recover, there's room to improve, and if you're really a bad guy and you need to be away, we're going to put you there, but if you have a chance to redo your life, reshape your life, we're going to give you that opportunity too. And I think that that message sent out there in the community is just -- it's been a wonderful experience. And I commend you 292 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. for your efforts and your work. I don't care if he tells you to slow down or not. Just keep on coming with these ideas. I just really think it's a different environment, a different atmosphere, and I think you've -- obviously your philosophy has helped to foster that. I don't have any questions. I listened to a lot of what you had to say down in my office. I know there's been a lot of questions asked. I know you've been here a long time, but congratulations. It's been a great thing to watch.
Thank you very much. I'm very appreciative of your kind words. I really think for Philadelphians to know that the criminal justice system is going to be fair, they have to know that we're applying the same standard of justice to everyone.
I've told all throughout the campaign -- it wasn't just 293 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. a platitude for the campaign -- that no 3 matter where you are on Germantown Avenue, if it's at Germantown and Erie or Germantown and Evergreen up near where Mr. Green lives, we're going to have the same standard of justice for everyone, no 8 matter what your title is, and that in the ecosystem of the criminal justice system, if people see that we're being fair to everyone, we're applying justice the same way, then they won't think that we're just being unfair to the kid who is selling crack at 52nd and Florence and we're giving a pass to the police officer that shot and killed someone. And so I appreciate that. It's going to take a while really to really change the culture, but I think it's something that we have to do and it's something that I can't take care of alone for, that my colleagues and I that sat at the District Attorney's Office every day at lunch, that's what we talked about, if we could do it. And so now I'm very glad 294 4/14/10 - WHOLE - BILL 100115, etc. that I have the opportunity to do just that.
Well, it's apparent in a short period of time. So congratulations.
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Seeing no one, again, I thank you, and good luck.
Yes. This Committee will stand in recess until Tuesday, April 20th at 10:00 a.m. Thank you. (Committee of the Whole recessed at 4:45 p.m.) 295 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on April 14, 2010, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)