sports wagering and whether a non-primary location that offers sports wagering
is a casino and if the distinction is that no card table games or slot machines are permitted
then is it necessary to get in I understand you'll get into this amount of detail if it goes
on to the special exception case but is it relevant to the legal issue of whether this
is a casino i think it is because the question is is this something that um uh city can that that
that the zoning code means when it intends when it has this subcategory of assembly and
entertainment use is this a generic assembly and entertainment use or activity or is this
something that the zoning code meant to prohibit when it talked about gaming facilities or licensed
gaming facilities, which is an undefined term. And I think that it's pretty clear under the zoning
code that when you're struggling to fit a use into a particular category, you need to look at
the use. And that's all I'm doing here. I'm not talking about the harm. I'm not talking about how
this affects the neighbors. I'm not, I agree that that's for a later part of the proceeding,
should we get to it? I'm talking merely about what is going on, what would be going on inside
this box, this 2,600 square foot glass enclosed. And I think it's important. I don't think the
board can, I mean, Parks hasn't told you about any of this. And I think it's important for the
board to understand what's going to be happening here and whether this should be in a neighborhood
shopping center or not next to a dry cleaners the next page is what's again parks is emphasizing is
most important because this is their cash cow the in play betting um i'd like now to show a video
of what is what would be going on um let me see if i can get this is a three and a half minute video
that talks about these, that talks about these kiosks at parks. And it also talks about the
South Philadelphia, the South Philadelphia Sports Club.
We're unable to see the video and you need to unshare and then reshare on the video screen.
Thank you.
Unshare and then reshare on the video screen. Okay.
Okay, share, yeah, I'm just trying to get down to the bottom here.
Here we go.
We'll be right back.
hey so today i'm going to tell you how to place a bet on the canby kiosk or ssbt so to start with
there are three ways to fund the session the first is cash the second is with a voucher that you can
receive from over the counter terminal or a previous bet set that you've printed before
and the third way is through a player account card which can be connected to your online account
so if we want to place an instant market we go to live right now
so as i say i've gone into live and let's select tennis so if i go into the tennis market here
and then these are the games that are currently being played so if we select
so if we select martin and imai as a market and we go down to instant betting we can see that the
martin and imai as a market and we go down to instant betting
game's currently in play uh it's 0.7 set to game six so if i quickly place a bet on martin to win
this particular point and we go for five dollars and i place the bet as you can see that's instantly
now being placed uh your bet has been placed at those specific odds it tells you the potential
payout is eight uh eight dollars and twenty cent uh and now the odds have actually been updated
because that point uh has continued so if i close that selection and then go into the my
bet section you can see that that bet is still open and as soon as that bet is finished we'll
have the potential to pay out so if i now place my bet i'm waiting for the market to play through
and i end the session um a bet slip will print from the bottom of the terminal and we'll be
able to take that bet slip either to an over-the-counter terminal to cash our winnings or we'll be
able to reinsert it back into a kiosk to bet again and the journey begins twice.
I'm hearing an official opening of the Parcs winnings sportsbook here in South Philadelphia.
It's exciting that you can finally take a legal bet in South Philadelphia and I'm a little
disappointed that the Eagles aren't playing this weekend. We can't take bets on the Eagles,
but you guys have six weeks tonight, and we'll still be here next year when Eagles come back
and we'll make another one. Thank you very much, and we'll look forward to a lot of fun here in
the markets, race, and sportsbooks outfield. Thank you.
going to go back and finish out my presentation now. Okay. Now, what did the applicant show you?
The applicant showed you, as of course we know from last time, that they don't show you the
guards or the podium there's nothing here that there's no sign here that says 21 only
there's no kiosks in this um in this drawing in fact uh this rendering you go inside here
there's no kiosks being shown everyone here is looks sort of like the same person no one's even
looking at their phone no one has any cash out no one's even looking at their phone which you know
which is interesting. And there's no one in this picture. And there's certainly no,
oh, wait a second, right back here in the back, there's these five gray objects.
I would submit to you that that's probably the self-service kiosks where you can do in-play
bedding that certainly was not mentioned by the applicant in his presentation um so um but you
know there they are there's no one in of course there's no one in here there's no one there's no
people shown um doing anything uh so um uh i want to show you now some of the transcript that um
parks testified about, containing parks testimony
when it's category one license was up for renewal.
Their main license comes up for renewal every five years.
They talk about, and they have to brag
about how great they're doing.
And they get local officials come and say how great,
how much the local official loves the casino.
And so in this five-year annual, five-year review,
Parks says that our casino floor now has a bunch of things. Our casino floor has slots,
table games, and with the recent addition of sports wagering, 29 self-service sports wagering
kiosks. So there's those kiosks again, and Parks describes that as being part of their casino floor.
Now we have Ms. Mandarino, who's a member of the Gaming Control Board, and she's asking a question
about the turf clubs. And she says, with respect to sports betting and the turf clubs, which you
now can offer the sports betting there by way of, I believe the word of is probably missed from
this transcript, by way of your license that we're talking about today. So again, this is the five
year review of their main category one license. And the game and control board member, Ms.
mandarino says regarding the sports betting there that you that by way of your license
there that you that by way of your license I think it's pretty clear in the mind of this
i think it's pretty clear in the mind
game and control board member that sports betting is there by virtue of their license of their
license and she is your body sharon slid again can we the party stipulate that yeah I just
I'm sorry sports wagering can only be allowed by a licensed operator which is not
not the same necessarily as saying that it is a licensed facility that and that there will be
kiosks no but stipulate to that is that enough to move on with the legal arguments i can certainly
agree to that i'm sorry i'm sorry but it's not enough i and i and i'm almost at the end here
but what i think is relevant is how people talk about it how a member of the gaming control board
talks about it how parks officials talk about it i think terminology and how it's how it's used how
people talk about stuff is important because that's we're talking about what do these words
mean and i think it's it's important to see how people use them um in their own minds and so she's
saying at the end of this page she talks about what of your again she goes what are your long
range plans for the South Village. I believe that should be South Philly. I think we'll see that
pretty clearly. And Valley Forge. Those are the two turf clubs, South Philly and Valley Forge.
And here's Mr. Ritchie, RICCI from Parks, an executive with Parks. And he's talking about
the changes that will be made to allow the sports betting. And what does he say? He says it was
really not a difficult process. It was really more money spent on some physical plan upgrades.
And just putting them in a position to be overseen as a casino, as opposed to a racetrack, more surveillance, upgrades, things like that, security and surveillance.
So I don't think I need to beat that too much. It's the fact that the parks casino guy was saying that they're going to make the turf clubs be in a position to be overseen as a casino.
um let's go to there and this is of course there i'll go through this very quickly this is the
powerpoint presentation that accompanied that hearing again they refer to parks casino having
a gaming floor with the kiosks they talk about gaming taxes coming from sports betting it's not
something different they talk about the future of sports betting and they say here i'll jump down
to the bottom because I know time is an issue. They're having a mini casino in Cumberland County
and they want to give a first-class casino experience and that includes a sports book.
So Parks is telling the Game and Control Board that their new mini casino in Cumberland County
is going to have a first-class casino experience and that's going to include a sports book. I'm
going to keep going. They're going to have new casino professions including sports wagering.
It's not a different type of profession. It's a casino profession. That's how Parks refers to it itself. And of course, here's a letter from Parks Casino. This is the official name of Parks Casino. Their corporate name is Greenwood Gaming and Entertainment.
They wrote to the gaming control board years ago talking about proposed regulations. They wanted to open up the sports books at the turf club at the exact same day as they open it up at the casino. And they emphasized to the gaming control board that it's the same operation.
The sports wagering operations and internal controls at each type of land-based facility
will be similar, if not the same, in all material respects.
This is the same thing as what's happening at their casino.
Finally, we're sort of going into the homestretch here.
This is their petition to have sports gambling at the Valley Forge Turf Club.
So if they get their way, they're going to be submitting one of these things to the gaming control board for 1526 Packer. We hope they don't get their way. Let's see what they said in their petition. Okay. They talk about their license. That's fine. They talk about the fact that this is a petition.
They talk about that they're going to put a lot of money into it and that they're going to put the security and security measures, again, in coordination with the Bureau, the Pennsylvania Game and Control Board Bureau of Casino Compliance.
Finally, towards the end, we're looking at the Game and Control Board website that has links to sports wagering at the bottom, information about the sports wagering program.
And what do they talk about?
They don't talk about just sports wagering certificate holders.
they talk about licensed sports wagering certificate holders.
Again, the paramount nature of the license. I'll skip through this, but this is
again talking about, I think what Ms. Zuleta mentioned, which is it's all come
Again, talking about, I think, what Ms. Zuleta mentioned, which is it's all coming under the main license.
This is what pops up when you click that link that I just showed you.
It all comes under the main license.
And then here's also the status of the various licenses.
The Parks Casino has the main license.
Each of their principal entities, which are really their subsidiaries, the City Turf Club here, is approved for licensure.
so this entity that's before you does have a gaming license and this is just so the board can
see this is the neighborhood that the Chicky and Pete's is in the Chicky and Pete's is right here
towards the right hand side with the red dot on it these are all the row homes in Packer Park
this is the Chicky and Pete's on the left you can see the Chicky and Pete's crab logo and there's
the dry cleaners in the middle, there's a pizza place, there's a bakery. Mr. Chairman, I just
want to back to this because this is the same exact stuff that we said we would talk about in
the second part of this argument. It says nothing to do with whether the operation is a casino,
and I think we're going pretty far afield. We've let Mr. Bonny go pretty far afield,
and this has nothing to do with whether the operation is a casino. Your objection is sustained.
Okay, I'll finish off by talking about the game and control board letter and highlighting this portion of the game and control board's chief counsel letter where he emphasizes how this is everything here in this facility that has to do with sports betting is going to be regulated by the Pennsylvania game and control board.
And he says, in concert therewith, the board would not authorize the non-primary location to conduct sports wagering until satisfied that adequate internal controls are present to address the issues of security, surveillance, financial safeguards, underage and problem gambling, exclusion, and other pertinent matters designed to uphold the interests illustrated throughout the Gaming Act as they relate to sports wagering.
I'm going to stop sharing here. So I think it's clear from our presentation that this animal,
that this is that when you walk into that 2,600 square foot glass box, you are leaving the city
of Philadelphia and you are going into something that's the territory of Harrisburg, the Gaming
Control Board, the Gaming Act. And I believe that that is the fair interpretation of what is referred
to in this definition under assembly and use. And that it is a licensed gaming facility as authorized
by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania pursuant to the Gaming Act. I don't think, I think that's,
I think that conclusion is inescapable. And I think that it's the applicants who are asking
you to change those words and look to a definition of a different phrase. I think that this is what
city council and the mayor and our government and through our zoning code does not believe
should be by special exception. If they can do it in this neighborhood, they can do it in other
neighborhoods. And they can, and you will see these, and I think that what we're talking about
here is in the nature of something that the zoning code does prohibit. And, you know, I'll pause
there. And I'd ask you to take a look at the facts and see if that, and see if those facts
fit into this category or not. I think the city of Philadelphia has said that it does,
and I would ask you to take Mr. Reuter's opinion seriously, and I thank you for listening to
our presentation. Thank you, and before we begin, it's not for debate. I just want to point out,
you did a lot of your presentation, talked about those kiosks. If my recollection is correct,
and it's about four years ago last time i was in that turf club at seventh and packard
you don't have to go to a tele they have machines that you can place a bet uh on a horse bed so
a kiosk is a kiosk and i used cbs and i wasn't trying to be flip about that the point is cbs
and walgreens and all these other places do have forms of gambling maybe we ought to look into that
and see well i don't mr i don't know how again i said not for debate i just wanted to point that
that you you spent a lot of time on those kiosks well like there's some sort of you know foreign
foreign piece of machinery that people aren't used we use kiosks for pretty much everything
piece of machinery that people aren't used we use kiosks for pretty much everything
these days whether it's gambling or not gambling well i but i mr chairman i think if they if i
think if chickie and pete's wanted to put a lottery kiosk inside of chickie and pete's i don't think
we'd be here today so i don't know maybe we would maybe we wouldn't just what who knows i don't
think the guy who sells the lottery outside and the newsstand would be happy about it but maybe
they would maybe you should look into that and i'm going to have a question uh michael for you
or somebody about he talked about security uh and again i want to go down that path too long but
i believe that chicken pete probably does have a security system in there already
physical yes security people like most establishments do yes okay that is accurate
they have it and and mr charaki is available as well if you had any questions beyond that but yes
Okay, that was my only question for the time being, but thank you.
Square foot facility, Mr. Chairman.
Michael, you've got to speak a little closer to the microphone or you're a little bit muffled.
Michael, what are you saying?
What is the square footage at Chick-A-S and Feet's 2600?
The sports book and OTV race, parimutuel race, would be about 2600 square feet.
Chickie's and Pete's itself is around 23,000, 24,000 square feet.
And that room that we talked about that Carol's speaking to has been originally set up as part of an area for private parties and overflow dining, I believe, when the main dining room is full.
That is correct.
That accurate?
Right.
So because I know we're going to get into this whole thing about cars, people coming.
so people come to dine i don't understand what the difference is going to be but all right
please proceed did you did mr reuter want to speak because you heard from us you heard from
mr bonnie and mr reuter did send in a brief and i didn't know if he was going to speak in addition
to what he already said or if that is the end i think i did ask him that but we'll ask him again
Mr. Reuter? Yes, thank you. What I do want to point out first is that, again, the only issue
here, again, is whether the proposed sports wagering and parimutuel betting at this location
is a casino. And again, we want to emphasize, notwithstanding what I've noticed while everybody
was talking is a a uh an error typo really uh in my brief we we do agree that this proposal would
not be a licensed facility as defined by the gaming act and it would constitute a non-primary
location under the racing act what we're trying to point out though is that the city code explicitly