Committee Hearing, June 3, 2009

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400, City Hall4 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 2:24 p.m.5 - - - Bill 090122 - Dumpsters legislation Bill 090123 - " "7 Bill 090259 - Sidewalk café @ 4000 Spruce St. Bill 090262 - Newspaper Boxes8 Bill 090264 - Held at request of sponsor Bill 090266 - Sidewalk café @ 1001 S. 10th St.9 Bill 090290 - Revision of lines and grades... Bill 090291 - No-parking regulation10 Bill 090320 - Traffic signal installation Bill 090329 - Farmers Market --11 Bill 090382 - Prevent Red Light Violations Bill 090386 - Prevent Red Light Violations12 Bill 090387 - Sidewalk café @ Ridge Ave. Bill 090388 - Canal View Park Farmers Market13 Bill 090391 - Prevent Red Light Violations bill 090402 - Sidewalk café @ 3900 Chestnut14 Bill 090403 - Underground improvements @ CHOP Bill 090404 - One-way reg. on Belgrade Street15 Bill 090406 - Sidewalk sales prohibition -- Bill 090407 - Prevent Red Light Violations16 Bill 090409 - National Park Service... Bill 090436 - 22nd & Christian Sidecar Café17 Bill 090438 - No-truck-parking regulation Bill 090441 - Westmoreland St.18 Bill 090442 - " " 19 COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Frank DiCicco, Chair Curtis Jones, Jr.20 Maria Sanchez, Vice Chair Donna Reed Miller William K. Greenlee21 22 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists23 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 1910324 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 25 2 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good2 afternoon. This is the Committee on3 Streets and Services. The public hearing4 is now in session.5 We do have a quorum. To my far6 left is Councilwoman Maria Quiñones-7 Sanchez, to my immedate left is8 Councilman Greenlee, to my immediate9 right is Councilman Jones. We do have a10 quorum.11 I will now ask Mr. Abernathy to12 read the title of the first bill.13

Bill No. 09026414 is being held at the request of the15 sponsor.16 Bill No. 090441, an ordinance17 authorizing the paving of Fourth Street18 from Westmoreland Street to Ontario19 Street, and Westmoreland Street from20 Lawrence Street to Fourth Street, under21 certain terms and conditions.22 And Bill No. 090442, an23 ordinance authorizing the revision of24 lines and grades on a portion of City25 3 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Plan City No. 157 by placing on the City2 Plan Fourth Street from Westmoreland3 Street to Ontario Street east of Lawrence4 Street and Westmoreland Street from5 Lawrence Street to Fourth Street, partly6 within the lines of an existing7 pedestrian walkway and authorizing the8 opening of the portion of the bed of9 Westmoreland Streets extending through10 property owned by the City of11 Philadelphia, all under certain terms and12 conditions, including the dedication to13 the City of the bed of Fourth Street and14 the portion of the bed of Westmoreland15 Street not owned by the City.16 (Witness comes forward.)17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good18 afternoon, gentlemen. Please identify19 yourself for the record and proceed with20 your testimony.21

Good afternoon,22 Chairman and members of the Committee.23 My name is Frank Morelli, Survey Bureau24 Manager with the Department of Streets,25 4 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 and the Department of Streets would like2 to offer the following testimony on Bill3 No. 090441.4 This is not an administrative5 ordinance but an ordinance requested by6 Mr. Luis A. Rodriguez, P.E., of Rodriguez7 Consulting, LLC, 1817 Arlington Drive,8 Williamstown, New Jersey. The purpose of9 this ordinance is to pave Fourth Street10 from Westmoreland Street to Ontario11 Street and Westmoreland Street from12 Lawrence Street to Fourth Street. This13 action is a part of an affordable housing14 development on the abutting lane15 consisting of approximately 15 new16 townhomes.17 This ordinance is supported by18 the Department of Streets and is19 recommend to your committee for favorable20 action.21

Councilman, I'll22 be testifying on the next one, 442, the23 placement of the --24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.25 5 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Any questions for this witness2 on behalf of the committee? No?3 (No questions or comments.)4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Anyone5 else to testify on this bill?6 (No response.)7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please8 proceed with the testimony on Bill No.9 090442.10

Good afternoon,11 Mr. Chairman and members of the12 committee. My name is Frank Morelli,13 Survey Bureau Manager of the Department14 of Streets, and the Department of Streets15 to like to offer the following testimony16 on Bill No. 090442.17 This is not an administrative18 ordinance but an ordinance requested by19 Mr. Luis A. Rodriguez, P.E., of Rodriguez20 Consulting, 1817 Arlington Drive,21 Williamstown, New Jersey. The purpose of22 this ordinance is to place on the City23 Plan Fourth Street from Westmoreland24 Street to Ontario Street and Westmoreland25 6 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Street from Lawrence Street to Fourth2 Street. This action will facilitate an3 affordable housing development on the4 abutting land consisting of approximately5 50 new townhomes.6 This ordinance is supported by7 the Department of Streets and is8 recommended to your committee for9 favorable action.10

Good afternoon,11 Chairman DiCicco and members of the12 Streets and Services Committee. I am13 William Erickson, a City Planner with the14 Development Planning Division of the15 Philadelphia City Planning Commission. I16 am here to testify on Bill No. 090442,17 which Councilmember Sanchez introduced18 into City Council on May 21, 2009.19 This bill will place on the20 City Plan Fourth Street from Westmoreland21 to Ontario Street and east of22 (indiscernible) Street and Westmoreland23 Street from Lawrence Street to Fourth24 Street. This will allow the development25 7 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 of the large-court homeownership project2 which consists of 49 new single-family3 attached units and four new infilled4 (indiscernible).5 This action received6 preliminary approval from the Planning7 Commission at its meeting on February 17,8 2009. This action, set forth by Bill9 090442, is consistent with this previous10 policy of the Philadelphia Planning11 Commission. Accordingly, we recommend at12 a Bill No. 090442 is approved.13 This concludes my testimony. I14 appreciate the opportunity to appear15 before you today and would be pleased to16 answer any questions.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.18 Any questions for these19 witnesses from the committee?20 (No questions or comments.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Anyone22 here to testify for or against the bill?23 (No response.)24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing25 8 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 none, Mr. Abernathy, the title of the2 next bill.3

Bill No.4 090436, an ordinance authorizing Adam5 Ritter to construct, own, and maintain an6 open-air sidewalk café at 2201 Christian7 Street, under certain terms and8 conditions.9 (Witness comes forward.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good11 afternoon.12

Good afternoon,13 Chairman and members of the Committee.14 My name is Robert Black, and I'm a15 construction engineer with the Streets16 Department and I'm here to offer the17 following testimony for Bill No. 090346.18 This bill authorizes Adam19 Ritter to construct, own, and maintain an20 open-air sidewalk café located at 220121 Christian Street. The sidewalk café22 consists of nine tables approximately23 2-feet-square, with 18 chairs,24 encroachment of a maximum of 6 feet on25 9 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the west footway of South 22nd Street,2 leaving a minimum of 8 feet clear for3 pedestrian traffic.4 The sidewalk also consists of 45 tables approximately 2-feet-square, with6 8 chairs encroaching a maximum of7 3-feet-9-inches on the north footway of8 Christian Street, leaving a minimum of9 7-feet-6-inches for clear pedestrian10 traffic.11 The Streets Department has12 reviewed the plans and has no objection13 to the passage of the bill.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just give15 me one second, please.16 I'm sorry. Again, thank you.17 Please proceed with your testimony.18

Good afternoon19 Chairman DiCicco. My name is William20 Erickson from the Development Planning21 Division of the Philadelphia Planning22 Commission.23 This item is scheduled for the24 next Planning Commission meeting on June25 10 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 9th. And, currently, we'd ask that it be2 held until after the Planning3 Commission's meeting, or at least final4 passage be held until after the Planning5 Commission meeting on the 9th.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We could7 still vote it out.8 Do you have any idea what the9 Planning Commission's recommendation10 going to be? I've been dealing with this11 almost as much as I deal with cafés in my12 district, so it would be helpful.13

Yes. The staff14 recommendation is going to be -- we would15 recommend approval for the sidewalk café16 with certain restrictions and some17 modification.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Certain19 restrictions as it relates to the hours?20

Certain21 restrictions as it relates to the hours22 and the number of tables.23 We think the amount of chairs24 is appropriate; however, the amount of25 11 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 tables, because they're so close2 together, we'd like to reduce the amount3 of tables on either side, however,4 remaining with the same number of chairs5 that, with eight chairs on the Christian6 Street side and 22 --7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:8 Actually, how many chairs on the...9

I think it's 1810 chairs on the 22nd Street side.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And that's12 because of the size of the tables?13

Well, the --14 right now, they actually proposed that --15 these are two-foot tables and they're16 directly abutting one another. And the17 assumption here is, as soon as you go to18 sit down, you're going to pull that table19 a little bit away so that when you sit20 down, you don't bump the guy next to you.21 So they're calling for all 2-foot-by-2-22 foot tables.23 And the amount of clear space24 that they're required go right up onto25 12 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the line. And when you have all two-foot2 tables, the assumption is, you're not3 going to sit right abutting the table4 next to you; you're going to pull off a5 little bit.6 So we'd like to reduce the7 number of tables but keep the number of8 chairs there so that could you, you know,9 maybe put a table and put a chair at the10 end of the tables instead of -- because11 when we assume that they're going to pull12 the tables away from each other to get a13 little bit room in between the tables.14 So that's -- we're going to be15 recommending for the sidewalk café to16 limit the hours and reduce the number of17 tables.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.19 Councilman Jones.20

Yeah. I21 would have a question. There are two22 streets in question?23

That's correct.24 This is at the corner of 22nd and25 13 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Christian.2

So are you3 recommending a particular amount on one4 street or the other?5

Yes. And we'd6 be recommending two tables on the7 Christian Street side, six tables on the8 22nd Street side, with the same number of9 chairs.10

And that11 would be your recommendation, too.12

Well, that's13 going to be the staff recommendation to14 the Planning Commission.15

That would16 be you.17

It's an informal18 body. They can -- I would be making the19 staff recommendation to the formal body.20

That's what21 I asked you.22

Yes, yes.23

So that's24 your professional recommendation, that we25 14 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 limit the amount of tables on the2 Christian Street side.3

Yes, that's4 correct.5

How many6 tables are you recommending on the North7 22nd --8

South 22nd --9

The South10 22nd Street side?11

Six tables.12

Six. So six13 and two?14

Six and two.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is the16 Commission weighing in on any of the17 hours of operation?18

Yes, we would be19 making a recommendation on the hours of20 operation.21

And what are22 they?23

On the Christian24 Street side, we would like to limit it to25 15 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 10 o'clock; and on the 22nd Street2 side --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is that4 are the -- excuse me. Is that for the5 six nights of operation?6

Actually, we'd7 actually make the recommendation for all8 seven nights.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Assuming10 that they open it on Monday.11

Yeah. They may12 open on Monday. All seven nights at13 10 o'clock.14 And then we would do on the15 22nd Street side, Sunday through16 Thursday, 10; and 11 o'clock on Friday17 and Saturday nights.18

Can I get a19 little insight as to why you're20 recommending just two tables on Christian21 Street?22

It's very tight.23 First of all, these windows open out,24 they're casement windows. If you can see25 16 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the plan -- and I'll bring up a copy of2 the plan -- it's very tight. And these3 tables are sitting directly abutting one4 another.5 And as you -- a two-foot table,6 the assumption is that you're not going7 to want to sit right abutting the guy8 next to you. So you're going to slide9 your table over because there's four10 tables there. It's very tight if you're11 sitting four tables in 10-foot-4. It's12 going to be very tight.13 So the assumption is they're14 going to start moving and encroaching15 into the street.16

What's the17 distance to the closest residential18 property?19

Oh, it's20 directly abutting.21

Next door?22

Yes.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just to24 clarify that; that's on the Christian25 17 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Street side.2

On the Christian3 Street side.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: On the5 22nd Street side --6

There's an7 alley, yeah, there's a street there.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: There's a9 street separating it from the nearest10 resident.11

Thank you,12 Mr. Chairman.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What's the14 width of the sidewalk on Christian and15 22nd; do you know?16

Yeah. The17 sidewalk on Christian Street is18 15-foot-wide and the sidewalk on 22nd19 Street is 14-foot-wide.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's 14 on21 22nd?22

Yes.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How's that24 compare to 18th Street where -- 18th,25 18 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 where Rouge is, Center City?2

Normally --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: That's4 much larger, isn't it?5

Well, yeah. The6 issue here is that the sidewalk café7 regulations had a 13-foot cutoff.8 Anything wider than 13 feet, you had to9 use half the distance of the street; as10 opposed to a street that is under 1311 feet, you could then do the clear space12 of -- I think it's five feet.13 So you could -- on smaller14 streets that aren't -- on sidewalks that15 aren't quite as wide, you could go down16 to five feet. These are proposing to17 maintain those half clear, the half clear18 space.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I guess20 the point I'm trying to make is that21 having a 15-foot-width sidewalk on22 Christian Street, technically they would23 be able to put more tables in if you24 compare it to what we have in front of25 19 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Rouge.2

They could if3 they --4 (Applause.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I'm6 not picking on Rouge; I'm just trying to7 make a point here.8

They could if9 they -- the issue is, they're trying to10 maintain 7-and-a-half foot clear from an11 existing tree. There's a tree there,12 which limits the sidewalk. And so the13 ordinance requires that they maintain it14 half clear.15 So this is their intent, to16 maintain that 7-foot-6 clear.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I'm18 not suggesting one -- that what I'm about19 to say, one neighborhood is right or20 wrong in this or has better privileges.21 But East Passyunk Avenue, which I'm very22 involved in, their sidewalks are much23 narrower than 13 or 14 feet, and they24 have more than -- in some cases, more25 20 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 than two tables.2 So why only two on Christian3 Street when you have 15-foot of sidewalk4 and you don't have that kind of space in5 other sections where we have numerous6 sidewalk cafés?7

Uh, the...8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The tree?9

Well, it is a10 function of the fact that the tree's11 there. There's no question there's a12 (indiscernible) by the fact the tree's13 there. This particular plan calls for14 the removal of the tree for where the15 nine tables are.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh,17 they're not going to remove a tree if I18 had anything to do with it.19

Yeah, yeah.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But21 Passyunk Avenue and other corridors have22 trees as well.23

Yeah, yeah.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm not25 21 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 trying to pick a fight.2

Yeah.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm just4 trying to -- what's the rationale?5

The rationale6 behind this, at least from my7 perspective, was that when I was looking8 at the tables being directly abutted9 against the wall of the building, the10 assumption is that those are going to be11 under windows that open out, and that12 that's going to -- that and the fact that13 they're so tight against it that people14 are going to pull those tables and move15 them away from one another.16 Now, that would reduce the17 amount of clearance, you know, maybe six18 inches, a foot, but that would not19 comply. So that's why (indiscernible)20 the recommendations. You know, six21 inches, a foot. But that's the reason22 why I made the recommendation.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: The24 windows that open out, are they bifold25 22 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 windows?2

They're3 casement.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're5 casement.6

Yeah.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Oh,8 casement, not bifold. So they're just9 kind of permanent -- when they're open,10 they're permanently out as opposed to11 bifold, which could be up against the12 frame.13

No. These --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay. No,15 that makes -- that clears up one of my16 other issues. All right.17 Any other questions for these18 witnesses?19 (No further questions.)20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing21 none, thank you, gentlemen. I'm sure22 there are going to be more questions for23 you. Hang around.24 We normally have a witness25 23 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 list. I understand we do not have a2 witness list but I suspect there are a3 number of people here who will want to4 testify. And in the absence of a witness5 list, it's going to make it difficult to6 call people up to the witness table.7 So just, if you're going to be8 testifying, raise your hand.9 All right. Why don't I try to10 do this. Beginning in the front row --11 to my right, your left, right?12 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What13 bill is this on?14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: This is15 for the same bill, for the 22nd Street16 Sidecar.17 Okay. Why don't we do this.18 We'll bring the applicant up first.19 Mr. Abernathy will pass around a tablet20 for those potential witnesses to sign in,21 okay?22 And once the applicant is23 complete, we will then go through the24 witness list and we will ask everyone to25 24 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 keep their comments to two minutes. I2 have a cooking timer here, so we'll try3 to make it work out.4 (Laughter.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Will the6 applicant please come to the witness7 table -- or applicants.8 (Witnesses come forward.)9 (Applause.)10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In all of11 the years I've been in politics, I never12 got an applause like that.13 (Laughter.)14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Not15 really.16 Actually, I owned a restaurant17 once, and I still didn't get applause; I18 went broke.19 (Laughter.)20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you21 and good afternoon. Please identify22 yourself for the record and proceed with23 your testimony.24

Good afternoon,25 25 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 members of the committee. My name is2 Adam Ritter, applicant; my wife, Jennifer3 Ritter, applicant.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Proceed.5

Thank you.6 What I'd like to do first is7 give you some personal facts, a little8 basic bio. I don't want to blather on9 about it.10 What I would like to let you11 know is, my wife and I have lived in the12 Graduate Hospital area, 20th and13 Christian 2043 Christian, a block away14 from our business, since 2002.15 We purchased the bar, 220116 Christian. It was Victor's Tavern, a17 place for good folks. In March of '05,18 it was a clear nuisance bar. The19 following year, we won "Best New Bar,"20 voted "Best Bar You've Never Heard Of,"21 so within a short year, we were able to22 take a classic nuisance establishment23 riddled with drugs, violations, you name24 it, classic case.25 26 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 The year beyond that we were2 voted PW, one of the top 50 bars in3 Philadelphia County.4 I could sit here and go on, but5 I really -- I don't want to waste your6 time or the people's time here at this7 point. We feel as though that we take8 pride in what we do, and we do a very9 nice job at it, and it's been noticed.10 What I'd like to explain is why11 I didn't have a permit or a license.12 What I did was, after we bought the bar,13 put it together, we -- in February of14 22nd of '06, I met with SOSNA, our civic15 association. We stood in front of them16 and asked them for their permission in17 reference to having outdoor seating, and18 I have a letter here, which I'd like to19 give into testimony, please.20 As I read: February 22, 2006,21 Zoning Board of Adjustment, Concourse22 Municipal Services Building, so forth and23 so on.24 Calendar: 2201 Christian25 27 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Street, Sidecar Bar & Grille, the2 application of an extension of a retail3 space, 14-foot-wide by 45-foot-length4 outside, outdoor setting.5 Dear Zoning Members: The6 owners presenting plans to the community7 at SOSNA community meeting of February8 16, 2006, the owners requested approval9 for outside seating and newly10 refurbished -- a refurbished Sidecar Bar11 & Grille. The community was very12 positive in the response and expressed13 their support. SOSNA is happy to support14 this commercial investment in our area.15 Signed, "Sincerely, John16 McHugh." Again, February 22nd of '06.17 Unfortunately, I did not know18 at that time that I needed to go and19 obtain an ordinance and seek permission20 through the City as well as the PLCB. I21 apologize.22 As soon as I did find that out,23 I processed the paperwork. That's why24 we're here today. For three-and-a-half25 28 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 years, we ran outside seating, with zero2 complaints.3 Why are we continuing and4 operating or up until last week operate5 as an outdoor café without a permit?6 Part of my problem was, I have a staff7 that I employ, that if I did not at that8 time, unfortunately, I would have to9 relieve six of my employees of their10 duties, six people that take care of that11 outside when it's in operation.12 And I was hoping that this13 process would have happened quicker, so I14 wouldn't have had to at that point get a15 cease-operations through L&I. I16 apologize, but that is the case.17 What I have here is support18 from the sergeant of the 17th Police19 District showing that for three-and-a-20 half years, not only did we not have any21 issues with the outside; we didn't have22 any issues as a business, as a bar in our23 operation.24 And I want to have my wife25 29 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 please read this. And I'd also like to2 submit this into testimony, please.3

May 5, 2009. The4 owners of the Sidecar Bar & Grille, Adam5 and Jen Ritter, have been active members6 of their community. Over the past few7 years, I have come to know and respect8 these two individuals. They are9 responsible bar owners and have always10 cooperated with the 17th District.11 Adam and Jen have sponsored12 youth programs within the 17th Police13 District and the community events. They14 are my eyes and ears within the community15 and take a proactive approach in16 deterring crime near their business.17 Both Adam and Jen assist me in18 informing residents about crime patterns.19 They have reached out to their patrons on20 numerous occasions to assist the 17th21 Police District in solving crimes. On22 occasion, Adam has personally contacted23 me when witnessing crimes in the 17th24 District.25 30 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 The Sidecar Bar & Grille should2 be a model for all bar owners within the3 17th District. To date, I have received4 no community complaints about the bar. A5 check of the 9-1-1 database for this6 address has revealed no calls for7 service.8 The former bar, Victor's, was9 known as a nuisance, and the area was10 frequented by drug dealers. Since the11 Sidecar Bar & Grille started, the quality12 of life in this area has greatly13 improved.14 Sergeant John Massi.15 (Applause.)16

I'd like to talk a17 little about the neighborhood itself.18 We feel this particular19 neighborhood is a special place. We also20 feel as though that the Sidecar is a21 special place. This bar is no longer22 just our bar; this is a neighborhood bar;23 we happen to just be the people that24 actually run it. And, as you can see,25 31 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the folks in our neighborhood are here to2 support that.3 (Applause.)4

It's an5 interesting, eclectic group of folks,6 artists, professionals; you name it, we7 got it, and it's awesome. And we're8 blessed to have these people.9 We're also in a situation in10 our neighborhood where we're in what I11 refer to as a "state of commercial12 suspension." What's going on right now13 is, we've got buildings all over the14 neighborhood that are prime for amenity15 that sit vacant right now.16 And investors, potential17 entrepreneurs, restaurateurs, what have18 you, are watching things like this very19 closely, and they want to know how easy20 or difficult it is to do business in our21 neighborhood and through City Council as22 well. And that's why we're asking here23 for your permission to set a tone here.24 This whole thing right now is25 32 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 much bigger than us. We happen to be2 caught in the middle of it.3 We, at this point, have to move4 forward so other folks can realize that5 it is a friendly neighborhood business-6 wise.7 (Applause.)8

With that being9 said, what we would also like to do is10 have Council, please, if it is possible,11 to revisit the shaded area that Streets12 puts out there of the non-ordinance-13 needing session, meaning it stops at14 Bainbridge Street. Anything south of15 there, you go through the City, you go16 through the PLCB if that applies.17 And we are hoping that you18 would, at this point, consider that,19 please, to have smaller places like ours20 have the ability to get outside seating,21 and that would also be an incentive for22 potential entrepreneurs or investors or23 amenities in general.24 (Applause.)25 33 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

22nd and2 Christian. It's been a bar since the3 1930s. I pulled the L&I packet on this.4 This bar has been on there since the5 1930s. The first permit pulled for6 construction was in 1938.7 Most of the surrounding corners8 also at one time housed taprooms, so this9 should not be new for any of opponents.10 They knew what they were getting into at11 this point when they chose to live in12 this area. They moved -- essentially,13 they moved near a bar and had to14 understand some of the basic issue that15 does come along with that.16 We're not perfect; we17 understand this. We at the Sidecar Bar &18 Grille are not perfect, and we appreciate19 that. All businesses in a residential20 area are going to have a certain level of21 negative impact; we know this, we22 understand this, we are conscious of it.23 We respect our neighbors and our24 neighborhood and try to make as little25 34 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 negative impact as possible.2 The one and only time anyone3 ever approached me neighborhood-wise was4 Miss Carty, at 2203. She's my direct5 next-door neighbor. She became upset6 when patrons would lock their bikes to7 her property, and I appreciate that. In8 response, an immediate response, the9 Sidecar Bar & Grille procured eight bike10 racks and installed them on each of the11 four corners as a remedy.12 Besides that, there's never13 been any other conversation or reference14 to anything about our place.15 I have been willing to listen16 to my opponents from the beginning, but17 none of them have ever approached me.18 The only time they speak is when they are19 in a populated forum like SOSNA or CBA20 meeting. They try to paint me ugly, and21 I find this style of communication just22 plain-out unneighborly. And I really --23 I don't appreciate it.24 When I try to speak to people25 35 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 like Mr. Hayes, who will testify, or2 Mrs. Kim, who will testify, on the3 street, they just turn their back and4 they walk away from me.5 We live in a residential area6 all in close proximity, and we hope from7 this point forward, we can work on8 discussing the negative impact that,9 unfortunately, places like ours do shed.10 Things that the opponents may11 say:12 Beer bottles on their homes.13 I'm sorry, beer bottles on the steps of14 their homes. Drug paraphernalia found on15 the streets close to the bar. Noise they16 may be right, they may be wrong.17 These are things that are18 inherent to living in the, City and the19 source of these issues do not reside at20 the Sidecar Bar & Grille.21 (Applause.)22

They also will23 talk about it's difficult to walk among24 the seating area.25 36 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Excuse me,2 Mr. Ritter.3

I'm sorry.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think it5 might be helpful if you just get to the6 issue of what it is you're seeking7 because I suspect that those folks will8 say exactly what you're saying they will9 say.10

Mm-hmm.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So, in the12 interest of time, if you could just talk13 about the application --14

Yep.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- and16 what it is that you'd like to see in17 terms of seating and hours.18

Sure.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And then20 we'll get into -- the other folks will21 talk about what they're issues may or may22 not be.23

Very good.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And then25 37 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 we'll have to decide on that. That would2 be helpful.3

I have four quick4 things; can I run through those and then5 be done? I appreciate that.6 Patron noise. Basically, what7 I want to talk about is things that we8 have control of that I've been working on9 and plan to keep installed.10 Difficulty to walk through the11 seating area. We have changed the way12 the seating is configured to where13 patrons are less likely to block14 aisleways.15 Patron noise. We have placed16 signs around the building to warn17 customers to speak at lower levels. We18 close the windows on Christian Street19 side much earlier in the evening. We20 take the tables and the chairs in on21 Christian Street much earlier in the22 evening.23 I personally meet with my24 managers on a weekly basis to discusses25 38 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the negative impact to my neighbors.2 What we're asking for -- moving3 to the drawing -- is, per the Streets4 Department, per our legal right, we are5 asking for 9 two-tops on 22nd Street and6 4 two-tops on Christian Street. That's7 what we're asking for.8 And we also have some hours of9 operation that we would like to discuss.10 After speaking with SOSNA and community11 leaders, we came up with an outdoor12 seating closing schedule that we would13 like to recommend.14 Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday;15 Christian Street side specifically: We16 would like to make the last call at17 10:30. We would like to have the whole18 area broken down by 11 o'clock.19 22nd Street. Again, Tuesday20 Wednesday and Thursday. Last call at21 midnight. Broken down by 12:30.22 Friday, Saturday, and Sunday,23 Christian Street and 22nd Street: Last24 call, 1 o'clock, broken down by 1:30.25 39 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 And lastly, what we would like2 to do is add in for testimony. We have3 two other letters of recommendation. A4 peer of yours who, unfortunately,5 couldn't make it today. We have a letter6 of recommendation which I would like my7 wife to read from Councilman Bill Green.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We can9 just submit that for the record. We will10 have copies and --11

Thank you.12 And then lastly, I'd also like13 to submit one more, from State14 Representative Babbette Joseph.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If you can16 forward that --17

We have that.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We will19 submit those for the record.20

Thank you.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They will22 be entered into the record.23

And then I'd also24 like to enter in the testimony -- we25 40 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 have, between petition and affidavit of2 folks that were unable to be here today3 because of employment, we have 606 people4 that would like to be here but,5 unfortunately, they can't.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We7 couldn't fit 'em in anyway.8

Here. I'd like to9 add them in, please.10 Thank you.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.12 (Applause.)13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I would14 just like to recommend, as we go through15 this hearing, in whatever decision this16 committee makes as it relates to the17 hours of operation, that we would include18 Monday in the grouping of Tuesday,19 Wednesday, and Thursday --20

Understood.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- in the22 event you would opt to go to a seven-day23 operation and not come back and go24 through all this again, all right?25 41 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Understood.2 (Applause.)3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any other4 comments or questions?5 (No further questions.)6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.7

Thank you.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We'll9 begin with the witness list. And, again,10 remember we will try to keep everyone to11 two minutes.12

Sarah Burton,13 Sonja Johnson, Eric Hayes, and John Popp.14 (Witnesses come forward.)15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Before you16 begin, Mr. Ritter, you know, you can just17 nod your head either way.18 When you purchased this19 business, was it operating when you20 purchased it, or was it non-operating?21

It was operating.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It was?23

It was operating.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.25 42 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 For the record, Mr. Ritter2 answered in the affirmative. Thank you.3 Decide among yourself who will4 go first. Please identify yourself for5 the record and proceed with your6 testimony.7

My name is Eric8 Hayes. I live at 2207 Christian Street.9 I am in opposition to the outside dining,10 and I'd like to submit this into the11 record as to why that would be.12 The Sidecar has a couple of13 issues that's obviously a little14 different than what you all have heard.15 Most of the people that support the16 Sidecar in good faith has not and does17 not have a hardship.18 They don't live on the block of19 22nd and Christian Street adjoining to20 the Sidecar. They may live 21st and21 Christian Street, they may live Catherine22 Street, Bainbridge Street, et cetera. So23 anytime that they visit the Sidecar24 dining from the hours that it's open,25 43 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 whenever they decide to leave, they can2 leave at a time that is reasonable for3 them but is not reasonable for those that4 live adjoining to the property that has5 to work and should have an opportunity to6 get peace and tranquility.7 One of the issues that came8 about Sidecar recently was that9 Mr. Ritner [sic] decided to want to10 expand the Sidecar. There was a zoning11 hearing on the 15th -- at 1515 Arch12 Street, on May the 6th, in which it was13 determined that he didn't have the14 outside permit for the outside dining.15 Chairman Jaffe of the Zoning16 Board, along with the Zoning Board17 committee members, asked him and also --18 they asked him, did he have any outside19 permit? He said no. She asked him,20 please do not use the outside dining;21 you're in violation of the law. She did22 make that clear to him and his lawyer.23 However, on the next day, I24 believe it is, the 7th, May the 7th, up25 44 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 until past Mother's Day, he used the2 outside dining, both sides of the outside3 dining, fully being aware that he didn't4 have the certification that is required5 for this.6 Most of the time, when there7 was an issue with my particular property,8 I did briefly speak with him about the9 issues on my property. I did make him10 aware of the drug paraphernalia that was11 on my steps, the alcohol bottles, as well12 as ashtrays and whiskey glasses13 repeatedly and cigarette butts.14 He did not deny that it did15 come from Sidecar. He said he understood16 that it did come from Sidecar, but he was17 not to police his customers.18 And so, I asked him, I said,19 Well, listen, you know, this seems to be20 a real, real problem, and there needs to21 be a way that this can be remedied22 because what you're doing here, you're23 looking to take up both sides of the24 block. You're looking to take up 22nd25 45 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Street, you're looking to take up2 Christian Street.3 And I don't see how you can4 reward anyone at this point for the5 violations that he has incurred. I am6 completely in opposition to him outside,7 with the outside dining.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.9 I -- this -- for some reason, this is not10 working (referring to timer), but I'll...11

It happens.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: But I'll13 try and figure it out.14 In relationship to the problems15 with the cigarette butts and all of that,16 when was that?17

Actually, it18 happened --19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:20 Approximately.21

Say it again.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:23 Approximately when did you experience24 that problem?25 46 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Actually, kind2 of -- it has a -- it has different3 elements and different periods that it4 does happen.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you6 believe that since that time when he was7 made -- when Mr. Ritter was made aware of8 it that he tried to address that issue?9

I haven't -- I10 haven't noticed -- I haven't noticed any11 modification.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You're13 still seeing the cigarette butts?14

I still see that.15 Even the Budweiser beer bottles. When I16 brought this to Mr. Ritter's attention, I17 believe, if my memory serves me correct,18 Mr. Chairman, he said he that he didn't19 serve Budweiser.20 But the real point of it is21 this --22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I can23 understand that. I live well -- well,24 never mind. Go ahead.25 47 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

But the real point2 is this, Mr. Chairman and members of the3 committee here: For him to seek to try4 to use both sides, Christian Street and5 22nd Street, this is really, really has6 been and will create a deeper burden to7 what we've already have been experiencing8 for the last four years. I mean, last9 three years or four years, however long10 he owned the properties.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.12 Any questions of this witness?13

And -- and --14

Yes.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman16 Jones.17

Thank you,18 Mr. Chairman.19 You made a mention in the20 earlier part of your testimony that you21 live on Christian Street.22

Yes, I do.23

And how24 close are you to the bar?25 48 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

I am two doors from2 the bar.3

Two doors4 from the bar.5

Yes.6

And you made7 mention that the people that may support8 this project don't live on that block?9 No one on that block?10

Most -- 95 percent11 of the people that support the Sidecar12 live not on 22nd and Christian Street13 ajoint [sic] to the property close to14 Sidecar. Most of the people that support15 this are people that live two, three,16 four, maybe five blocks; and, in some17 cases, they may live on the 2100 block of18 Christian Street or the 2400 block of19 Christian Street.20 But it doesn't affect them at21 all. They have no hardship on this at22 all. So it's very easy for them to, you23 know, clap and be in great support of it,24 because it doesn't affect them. There's25 49 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 no burden to them at all.2 When they finish having their3 good time, they can go home, they can4 relax, and the people that is ajoint to5 the property has to wait until 2 o'clock6 a.m., 2 o'clock a.m., for an opportunity7 for their peace and their rest and their8 tranquility.9 This is not right. This --10 this -- there's no reason for this to be11 the case.12

And I don't13 know that block.14

I understand.15

But in the16 prior bar's operation, did you have a17 similar problem?18

No. Actually, let19 me tell you --20 (Laughter.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just,22 please, everyone. Be respectful, please.23 Thank you.24

The situation with25 50 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Victor was this. This was there their2 problem.3 Victor's was a bar where a lot4 of people went inside, acted the way they5 acted. You had some that would come6 outside and, you know, have their little7 cigarette butts or whatever, but it would8 stay at the corner of 22nd and Christian9 Streets.10 Where I live, at 2207, sir, has11 never, ever -- under Victor's, I never,12 ever had a problem with drug13 paraphernalia, I never, ever had any14 alcohol bottles, I never had any problem15 with Victor as opposed to any drug16 paraphernalia problems. I've never had17 that; that's never been its case.18

My other19 question would be: Have you offered or20 have you engaged in dialogue with the21 owner? He made mention that he was22 willing to communicate.23

I did, I did.24

Was there a25 51 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 compromise?2

I did. I said to3 him, Listen, a couple of things. I said,4 you know, you have some other options5 here, and we need to look at what the6 other options are, I said, but you cannot7 bully the whole block of 22nd and8 Christian Street because it's popular.9 It may be popular, but it doesn't mean10 that it's morally right to disturb the11 people close by.12 We're not dealing with13 popularity; we're dealing with people14 that are reasonable people that need an15 opportunity to rest.16

What was the17 compromise you offered?18

Actually, I told19 him, I said, Here's what I think you20 should do. I did mention this to him. I21 say, most of the time, if you're going to22 be for the outside dining, I said,23 listen, why don't you just use 22nd24 Street side as opposed to trying to use25 52 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Christian Street side.2 And, you know, he kind of -- he3 didn't say anything off the bat. He, you4 know, kind of said, Well, you know, we're5 looking at our options. And he wasn't6 that really, really engaging about it at7 that particular time. I felt a little8 edge to his voice.9 And so, I said, you know what?10 Maybe this is not the best way to do this11 at this particular time. But I did tell12 him, I said, Listen, I'm willing to13 support something that you're doing. And14 he said, Well, I'm not asking you for15 your support. And I said, Well, that's16 unfortunate.17 But basically the compromise18 that I thought that had potential, it19 didn't merit into anything positive.20

So where are21 you on the recommendation of the Planning22 Commission's staff to do two tables on23 the Christian Street side?24

I certainly think25 53 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 that -- that -- I am opposed to that2 because that is not something that we3 should have to be burdened with any4 further.5 First of all, the way the6 Sidecar has been operating, you would7 have to walk in the street to even go8 past --9 (Laughter.)10

-- because both11 sides of the pavement they have been12 using. And in some cases, some of the13 guests that there come and dine, they14 have their little dogs attached to the15 bottom of the chairs. And, you know,16 they may have, you know, some other17 personal things. It's a very, very18 uninviting scenario. It's not a19 comfortable scenario.20 But, you know, there may be a21 way to modify it. But certainly, 22nd22 and Christian Street wouldn't be the way23 to modify it.24

Thank you,25 54 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Mr. Chairman.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:3 Councilwoman Miller.4

You know5 what --6

Do you mind7 letting me speak now?8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We're9 coming to you. These are questions for10 this witness.11

Well --12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And we'll13 just let the panel finish.14 Okay, ma'am. Please identify15 yourself and proceed with your testimony.16

I am Sarah Burton,17 a committee person for that area.18 I've been called -- and many19 times, I've been had arthritis and I20 couldn't come. But today, God gave me21 that energy to come, because I know this22 has gotten out of hand, because who23 should be considered would be those24 people that live on Christian Street that25 55 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 has to get up in the morning and go to2 work but the noise and everything.3 I live on 22nd and Catherine.4 I (indiscernible) the fellow who lived5 next to me, I can't sleep in my little6 bedroom because his bedroom is onto mine7 and I can't watch my TV at night because8 the noise wakes him.9 So if he can't respect the10 people, I don't think he should have11 nothing on 22nd and Christian Street12 because (indiscernible) said he does.13 He's disrespecting those people. That's14 why I'm here.15 And the things -- I don't know16 of all those people he brought over here,17 but they're not the people who live in18 that area. You can bet your life on19 that.20 (Audience jeers.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please,22 please, please, please.23 (Addressing Mr. Hayes.) Yes,24 sir? Are you through? I'm sorry.25 56 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

I'm finished.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no, I3 know you are.4 Ma'am, are you finished with5 your testimony?6

Yes, I am.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.8

Because I just9 want it over and I just want them to give10 respect --11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I guess12 you're not through.13

-- to that area.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Understood.15

(Indiscernible.)16 That's why I'm here.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay,18 understood.19

I cannot stand a20 lot of this.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay,22 understood.23 The gentleman next to you,24 please. Thank you.25 57 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Hi. Thank you.2 My name is John Popp, and I3 live at 1918 Christian Street, which is4 about two blocks from the Sidecar.5 I support the bill or the6 resolution, or whatever it is, for the7 following reason: I've lived in the8 neighborhood for some time. I have a9 young child who's 14 months old. So one10 of the great things about sidewalk11 seating in general, and particularly in12 Sidecar, is that it's family-friendly for13 me.14 I don't want to take my --15 (Applause.)16

I live in a city,17 and I enjoy the amenities that a city18 has, but to bring a young child into the19 inside of a noisy, although mercifully20 smoke-free, bar is a little too much to21 bear.22 But being on the sidewalk,23 which I find actually quite inviting is a24 wonderful option for me. And I think25 58 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 that for anybody who is a family person2 and particularly has young children, it's3 something that's very sensible to4 support.5

I have a6 question, Frank.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman8 Greenlee.9

Thank10 you, Mr. Chairman.11 Quickly to the first two12 witnesses. You heard the testimony or13 the reading of the letter from the Police14 Department saying they've received no15 complaints. Have either of you, or do16 you know residents who have actually17 called the police because of noise and18 any other kind of disturbance on the19 block.20

Well, actually,21 yes, yes. I have called the police, and22 there's a few others that will testify23 they have.24 For whatever reason, for25 59 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 whatever reason, Councilman Green [sic],2 it's not been registered as of when. I3 don't know when it was registered. Maybe4 at the time they had a written a letter5 there. I don't know. He -- you know, it6 wasn't registered.7 But it has been -- it has been8 registered because that's one of the9 reasons how L&I got involved to it at10 this point. So it has been registered11 that there has been several complaints12 against the Sidecar Bar.13

It --14 when you say that's how L&I got involved,15 what do you mean? I'm sorry.16

Let me go back to17 my testimony. On May the 6th, when18 Mr. Ritter was told by the chairman of19 the Zoning Board --20

It was at21 the Zoning Board.22

Right, to not use23 the outside dining, otherwise he would be24 in violation, because he didn't have a25 60 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 certification.2

Mm-hmm.3

At the same time,4 we were also instructed that if and when5 that occurs, then there's two people that6 should be made aware. One is obviously7 9-1-1 and the other is L&I.8

And you9 did that?10

Yes, we did.11

And do12 have idea, living closely, did you13 notice, did the police ever come by that14 you noticed to that site?15

I see police in the16 area.17

Mm-hmm.18

I didn't see them19 designated on --20 (Audience jeers.)21

Please,22 please, please.23

I didn't see them24 designated, Councilman Green [sic], at25 61 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the Sidecar.2

It's3 Greenlee, by the way. Don't blame me for4 Bill Green.5 (Laughter.)6

Okay, I'm sorry7 Mr. Greenlee, I'm sorry.8 But I've seen police cars in9 the area there. I don't know exactly,10 you know, whether or not they ever went11 over to the Sidecar owner or not.12

Okay.13

I can't say that.14

All15 right, okay. I gotcha. Okay, thank you.16 Thank you, sir.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:18 Councilwoman Miller.19

Hi. Good20 afternoon.21

Good afternoon.22

I just23 wanted to say I used to work at 21st and24 Christian.25 62 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Mm-hmm.2

And I3 worked at 21st and Christian for nine4 years.5

Mm-hmm.6

And it's7 probably back in the '70s.8

Mm-hmm.9

I've been10 here 15 years, so it's been a while since11 I was in that area every day.12

Mm-hmm.13

And every14 now and then, I go in that area, just15 driving through.16

Mm-hmm.17

So I18 certainly don't know -- and we have had19 other hearings in this City Council20 regarding issues in that neighborhood,21 and I know the neighborhood has changed.22 And I'm familiar -- a little23 bit familiar with the old bar; I was a24 block away. I used to get out and really25 63 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 knew a lot of neighbors and a lot of the2 people in that neighborhood, and I know3 the neighborhood has changed.4 But one thing that I want to5 ask questions is, how long have you lived6 on that block?7

I lived on the8 block since 1985. It's been in my family9 since the early '50s.10

Okay. So11 who lived on there prior, your12 grandmother?13

My grandfather and14 my great-grandmother.15

Okay. So16 it's not a matter of making a choice. It17 was a bar when you moved there and it was18 a bar, I guess, when your grandma lived19 there.20

Yes.21

And22 things have changed, and now it's outside23 seating.24

Exactly.25 64 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Okay.2 And, ma'am, do you live on the3 block also?4

No. I live 22nd5 and Catherine.6

Okay.7 Which is right off --8

I don't see how9 these people at 21st and Christian can10 tell you so much, and they don't live by11 that bar.12

I'm13 sorry?14

And neither do I,15 but I'm a committee person, and they wake16 me up and harassing me.17

Okay.18

But the thing I'm19 in here for, he going to respect those20 people.21

Yeah.22 You got to respect the neighborhood.23

To get it, you24 give it.25 65 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Right.2 That's one of my concerns.3 You know, you gentlemen you4 talked about family-friendly. People5 live on that block. You know, they have6 a right to go to bed, they have a right7 not to have noise, and we all have that.8 And I think when bars are in9 neighborhoods, then those are the kinds10 of things we have to consider -- opening11 and closing times, outside activities.12 It's different when you're on a13 commercial strip.14 Sure, plenty of businesses here15 in Center City have outside cafés,16 businesses in my district too, but most17 'em are all on business strips. When18 we're in a neighborhood, we have to be19 real careful about noise level and other20 activities.21 When I worked at 21st and22 Christian, certainly that bar, whatever23 it was called, was open and active, but I24 was in there mostly 9 to 5 and out. And,25 66 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 you know, some days, two or three days a2 week, we were open until 11 and 7.3 We were actually a4 family-planning clinic. And I know that5 prior to us it was Upsher's (sp?) Funeral6 Home. And I'm sure if you lived in the7 neighborhood long enough, you'd know that8 too.9 However, we got to be careful.10 I think we do have to make some11 concessions with time. That's important.12 I have long days, really long work days13 sometimes. When I come home, I'm in the14 bed by 9 many nights, or 9:30, and15 absolutely no later than 10. And I don't16 want to hear music. If my next-door17 neighbor is playing music, I knock on the18 door. I'm tired.19 And I think we have to respect20 the needs of neighbors. Whatever we do21 has to, to me, be neighborhood-friendly22 if you're in a residential community.23 And that's what that bar is in.24 I know 22nd Street is mostly25 67 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 businesses. And, as I said, I haven't2 worked there, in that area, in years.3 So I need to make those4 comments. You made a choice to live5 there. At the time, outside seating6 wasn't popular. You know, we had a7 little bit here and a little bit there,8 but now everybody wants to do outside9 seating.10 And when you do it and it's in11 a area where people live and get up in12 the morning and go to work, then we have13 to respect that and respect their needs,14 okay?15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.16 We got 30 more people, so we17 have to -- I just want to, for the18 record, Mr. Hayes, a quick glance through19 one of the petitions that have been20 submitted, there are over 30 people who21 reside on the 2200 block of Christian22 Streets who signed a petition in favor.23 (Applause.)24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We really25 68 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 need to move on.2

Well, let me3 just -- can I add, Mr. Chairman? For the4 record --5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thirty6 seconds.7

I'm sorry. For the8 record, you need to know those people9 that signed the petition is still not10 ajoint to the property; they're in the11 middle of the block, close to 23rd12 Street.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I14 understand that not everyone can live15 next to a property, but it is the block.16 I live directly across the17 street from a restaurant with an outdoor18 café. It was at my insistence that they19 did the outdoor café, it was one of the20 best improvements to my community.21 (Applause.)22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: We really23 need to move on. There are 30 more24 witnesses.25 69 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Can I have thirty2 seconds?3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No.4

No?5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.6 I think you made your point. Thank you.7 The next group of witnesses are8 Madeline Shikomba, and I apologize if I'm9 not pronouncing it right, Kim Sanjgsuh,10 and Minnie Carty.11 (Witnesses come forward.)12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good13 afternoon, ladies. Decide among14 yourselves who is going to go first, and15 please identify yourself for the record16 and proceed with your testimony.17

I'm Minnie Carty.18 I want to give honor to the City Council,19 and I want to -- I live at 2203 Christian20 Street, right next door to the bar.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right.22

I want to say that23 Mr. whatever his name is --24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Ritter.25 70 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Ritter, he had2 mentioned about when I complained about3 the bicycles they hooked on my fence, and4 he immediately had them taken? No, it5 wasn't like that.6 I had to call the cops I don't7 know how many times about them. And they8 came out. They might not put a record on9 there that they come to my house. They10 came out, and I stood -- or I had to be11 there to -- after I called the cops, I12 had to be there to tell them what was13 going on.14 And he did not move them right15 away. He's telling you that. He's16 looking for the good side of his side.17 (Indiscernible.) Sometimes my18 granddaughter come in and she says, "Mom"19 -- I said, "Whitney, don't have nothing20 to do with it." I said, "You tell me21 when the bikes is on the fence," I said,22 "because I don't want them to have no23 offense against you. You tell me, and24 I'll take care of it 'cause it's my25 71 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 house."2 And so, she said --3 many-a-times, she come in and said,4 "Grandmom, the bikes is on the fence."5 I have laid down to go to sleep6 --7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is it --8

-- and I have to9 wake up and call the police to get 'em10 off my fence.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Has he12 installed the bike racks?13

He installed the14 bike racks on that side, where the tree15 is, by the tree, yes.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Are they17 still using your fence to attach bikes18 to?19

Well, I raised so20 much cane that they had stopped.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Mission22 accomplished, okay.23

All right, but the24 --25 72 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: They're no2 longer doing that, all right?3

Well, I figure4 'cause I had asked the cops, I said, Am I5 allowed -- they're on my fence. Am I6 allowed to cut them off of my fence with7 a clipper? He said no.8 Two lady cops came out, and I9 had -- they gave me their card. And they10 said (indiscernible). They gave me their11 card (indiscernible) at that district.12 And they gave me a card and they said13 that they were allowed to cut them off of14 my fence.15 And they ran to look for, what16 do they call 'em, cutters? But they17 didn't have any them with 'em at that18 time, and by the time they came out, they19 were gone.20 I want to say one time, I21 had -- when I went to the bar to tell 'em22 about that, I rang the bell, I knocked on23 the door, and I asked somebody, did they24 know anyone indoors whose bikes --25 73 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 somebody call the cops. Do they know2 anybody in there whose bikes these are?3 And they said -- all of 'em said no.4 They pick up for one another. No, they5 didn't know whose it was.6 And so, what happened one time,7 they had some bikes on my fence. I went8 to the door. He has a buzzer on there9 for handicapped people. I went to the10 door, the bar door, and rang the buzzer.11 He came out. Bah-bah-bah-12 bah-bah (indiscernible). Nasty, he got13 nasty with me and hasn't spoken to me.14 He's friendly with people but he ain't15 spoken to me since. I'm sure around this16 time, I guess, he's a little friendly,17 but --18 (Timer bell rings.)19 (Cheers.)20 (Applause.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please,22 please, let's be respectful. Thank you.23

Well, I told him.24 I said, I can't -- I can't -- I mean,25 74 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 it's a noise.2 And on top of that, we have to3 go through the dogs. And then they put4 the chair right up close to my fence. My5 fence is broken. He had the man working6 the building, the thing fell down off the7 front of it and it broke. It's not good.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.9

It's not good.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay,11 next.12 Oh, Councilman Jones?13

Can I say one more14 thing?15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Go ahead.16

Okay, there was a17 lady in the bar, and I spoke to her. Do18 you know what she had the nerve to tell19 me? I should be glad that they want to20 put their bike on my fence. I mean, who21 the devil does she think she is? I mean,22 that's like a racist remark 'cause I'm23 black and I should be glad that a white24 person put they thing on my fence. Come25 75 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 on now. It's different day now.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Next lady3 over. Whoever. Ma'am? Yes, please.4

My name is5 Sanjgsuh Kim. I live 2200 Christian6 Street.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Can you8 pull the microphone closer to you.9

My name is10 Sanjgsuh Kim. I live 2200 Christian11 Street.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: 22-what?13 What's the exact --14

The address is15 2200 Christian Street. It's across the16 street from the Sidecar.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.18

Yeah. I am19 (indiscernible) disturbing is what's20 going on at (indiscernible). I came in21 1991. I do know I moved there in 1991.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm sorry.23 You said you moved there in 1991?24

Yes. So I know25 76 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the Victor owner, what was going on, I2 know all that was going on. That's fine.3 I do know that when you operate4 a bar, you have noise, and that's fine.5 But when you don't have a outside dining6 out, it's another thing. It's a problem.7 The people eat, they have fun, that's8 fine. But after they eat, they have a9 few drinks, they out of their minds.10 They're open till 10:30, 1:30.11 No. So when do I have the time to sleep?12 I have a very difficult to sleep. And13 the people that are noisy, they get14 excited and they have a few drink and15 they make all kinds noises, and I cannot16 sleep. I have to (indiscernible)I don't17 think that's fair for me.18 And the trash is worse there19 all the time. It's not that20 (indiscernible) the takeout food. It's21 trash all over the side of my house. I'm22 on the corner house.23 And then I have a problem to24 parking 'cause of the dining out people25 77 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 parking, employee parking. They take all2 my parking space. I have a hard time to3 my own space still parking and in front4 of my own house. I can't get out on the5 weekend.6 And there is loud noise --7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Excuse me.8

Loud music.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you10 have a driveway?11

No. No, sir.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You said13 you have parking space.14

Parking space.15 I have a side corner so I have16 (indiscernible).17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: On-street18 parking, but it's not designated for you.19

No.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay,21 thank you.22

But it's a23 problem with the parking because you have24 employee parking, customer parking.25 78 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 (Timer bell rings.)2

I have a very3 difficult parking on my space.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay,5 thank you.6

So I am against7 it.8

My name is9 Madeline Shikomba. I am a resident of10 2304 Madison Square, which is a block11 away. I'm also President of North of12 Washington Avenue Coalition, which is a13 group in the neighborhood.14 Mr. Ritter has sought to15 trample on the rights of his neighbors.16 Even at this hearing, he has sought to17 impugn their testimony before they even18 speak by telling you all of the negative19 things he has about them. He is20 trampling on their rights because maybe21 they are old and poor.22 Ralph Ellison (indiscernible)23 once wrote a book, Invisible Man, which24 told the story of a man who was invisible25 79 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 despite the fact that people saw him2 every day and they didn't notice him3 (indiscernible) or chose to ignore his4 existence by merely even greeting him.5 He was invisible, and they denied his6 existence.7 Mr. Ritter's neighbors are8 invisible people. He chose to ignore9 them and their feelings. He damaged10 Mrs. Carty's fence and gate and has not11 yet repaired it. In fact, he thought12 that the cost of repair should be shared13 by him and Ms. Carty, although she was14 not responsible for what happened.15 When he sought to expand his16 business, he never talked to her or the17 neighbors at 2203, 5, 7, or 220018 Christian Street or even approached them19 to get feedback; he thought this was not20 necessary.21 Even after (indiscernible)22 opposition to expansion, he still chose23 to ignore the opposition and what they24 wanted.25 80 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 He operated a café for two2 years without legal permission.3 Ignorance of the law is not excusable.4 This man has lawyers; why don't he ask5 them if he could operate (indiscernible).6 Why didn't he ask SOSNA for? He didn't7 want to know the answer.8 He continued to operate even9 after the community was made aware of his10 illegal activity. He even ignored11 warnings from L&I to desist from12 operation. Only after L&I came out the13 second time, two weeks ago, two weeks14 ago, and threatened to close him down15 that he decided that he would16 (indiscernible).17 (Timer bell rings.)18

Concerning19 violations by the police, the police20 reported (indiscernible) against the bar.21 Why is this? His neighbor Mr. Carty and22 others have complained.23 Now, I'm going to tell you why.24 I have done some investigation. I called25 81 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 myself, and then I called the district2 office, the 17th Police District. I3 called 'em on Friday to ask them to find4 out why there was no complaints.5 What did I find out? They put6 the against her house, 2203, not against7 the bar. They didn't even have a record8 of my compliant. And I asked them, why9 is this? All 9-1-1 calls supposed to be10 recorded; they're not recorded. Why are11 the calls not being recorded? You have12 to ask 17th Police District.13 Okay. I seen of your former14 members, Councilman Angel Ortiz --15 (Timer bell rings.)16

I know. Just17 let me move on.18 He was convicted of violating19 the law because he didn't have a license20 (indiscernible), and he gave various21 excuses. Why didn't he adhere to the22 law?23 Mr. Ritter has to adhere to the24 law like everybody else. We are a nation25 82 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 of laws. Without laws, we are chaos.2 Mr. Ritter must respect the law. You3 cannot grant him permission to operate4 legally when he has been operating5 illegally.6 Although there are many people7 here supporting him, I tell these people8 one thing: Laws are made for everybody,9 not just for you and me, okay?10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You --11

I'm going to12 wrap it up.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please.14

(Indiscernible)15 commercial establishment. And why did16 they (indiscernible) man who wanted to17 open up a mall at 2301 Washington Avenue18 and --19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Ma'am,20 ma'am, I --21 (Indiscernible; parties talking22 over each other.)23

My final24 statement, my final statement.25 83 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no,2 no. You've -- I don't want to be3 disrespectful, but you have far exceeded4 the two-minute --5

I know, and I6 have a final statement. Let me say this.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Ma'am --8

Mr. Ritter's9 neighbors offer forgiveness for his sin,10 but they feel he should not go unpunished11 for violating the law and their quality12 of life.13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.14 Thank you.15 Do you have any questions for16 these witnesses?17 (No questions.)18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'd just19 like to ask all of you -- I know that you20 said, ma'am, you've been there since21 1991? How long have you lived at 2303?22

Since 1979.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And you24 were there, obviously, when the previous25 84 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 owners were there.2

And when he --3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Here's how4 it works.5

Okay.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm going7 to start asking the question and then you8 can respond, all right?9 Have you ever had any problems10 with the previous owners? Do you ever11 recall the police being called to that12 facility?13

Yes, we did.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yes?15

Yes, we did.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Noise,17 trash? Do you know of any police --18 other than your issue with the bikes, do19 you know if police have ever been called20 to this establishment for any21 disturbances to the community?22

I called.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: About --24 what was the call about?25 85 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

I was turning on2 23rd Street -- I mean 22nd Street to make3 a left-hand turn, and I was behind4 another individual also making a turn.5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You were6 behind another vehicle?7

Yeah, another8 vehicle, and he was turning also. He9 made the turn. And good thing I know to10 keep a good cushion between me and the11 next car. He stopped right at the corner12 because he saw a friend of his --13 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Let me14 ask: Have either of you or any of you15 had the experience to call the police as16 it relates to problems emanating from the17 Sidecar Café?18

I just told you19 that. Yes, but none of them were20 reported.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: For noise,22 for disorderly conduct? You have?23

I told you --24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: With the25 86 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 current owner?2

Sir, I called3 them many, many times 'cause sometimes4 they have a lot --5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You called6 the police?7

Yes, sir. I8 called. They have a live band. And it's9 such a small place there for a live band.10 And also the youngsters, they11 get drunk, they being outside, and call12 all kinds of names each other and fight13 over. So I have to call the police14 'cause it's 1:30 in the morning, 215 o'clock in the morning. It's totally16 disturbing.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.18

Okay. I cannot19 say too much about the inside of the bar,20 it's already licensed issued that for the21 bar, but I find the dining out, that's22 the one I have a problem.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Fair24 enough.25 87 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

I have called2 too.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Excuse me.4 Councilman Jones has a question, and then5 move on to the next panel.6

Just very7 briefly, Mr. Chairman.8 You made mention of these have9 individual problems, and the owner has10 made a statement on record that says that11 he's open to dialogue. Have you12 attempted to raise your concerns to him13 and was he receptive and responsive to14 those concerns?15

Well, I went there16 and buzzed the buzzer on his door. And17 he come out and hollered at me and said18 that was for people with disabilities.19 And I shouldn't do this and I shouldn't20 do that, and he hollered at me. I'm his21 next-door neighbor bikes and I was going22 to tell him about the bikes on my fence,23 and he hollered at me about that.24 That's when I -- if I can't25 88 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 talk to him, I call the cops. And the2 cops come out many-a-time. I have a card3 that the two lady cops came out and gave4 me a card. I should have put it in my5 purse to prove that that 17th District, I6 got in touch with the cops down there.7 And another thing I want to8 say. When they have the outdoor tables,9 they push against the fence. The fence10 is broke from the time he had the man do11 something and the thing fell down and hit12 my fence and broke it.13 And he said, "I'll pay half."14 Pay half? It was due to him I had my15 whole front knocked out. And none of16 those guys had a (indiscernible) none of17 that thing fell off the top of the house18 until he had that man pulling and pulling19 and pulling. Then he wants me to pay for20 half of it; he should pay for all of it.21 And then when they come and put22 the tables out there, they push against23 the -- when they move the tables, they24 push against the fence, they push against25 89 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the fence. The fence is broke. I go up2 there and tell him, I said, "Look, don't3 get against my fence." (Indiscernible.)4

I would take5 that as a, no, he wasn't receptive?6 (Laughter.)7

No, he was not.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right,9 thank you, thank you.10 Next panel?11 Thank you, ladies.12 Mark Scott, George Anthis, and13 Brenda Cohen.14 I'm not certain of -- you're15 through, ladies -- the next 20-some-odd16 witnesses, if there are any in this group17 of witnesses coming up that are opposed18 to this application.19 If you are not opposed, we20 would appreciate it if you would just21 summarize your statement 'cause we don't22 want to hear the same thing over and over23 again. I think we get the point.24 (Witnesses come forward.)25 90 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Ask them2 where they live.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And the4 committee's asked that you identify5 yourself and where you live.6

My name is Mark7 Scott. I live at 1530 Christian Street8 and am the Chairman of the South of South9 Neighborhood Association, SOSNA.10 I've lived in the neighborhood11 for just about three-and-a-half years,12 since the very day that Sidecar opened,13 and it was a large part of my deciding to14 move into the neighborhood. The fact15 that people were making investments in16 the nice establishments on Christian17 Street brought me and my family to18 Christian Street.19 I would like to personally20 support what he's doing. I've begged21 Adam, since the day I first went there,22 to open something at 16th and Christian23 so I could also complain about all the24 troubles that it creates on my corner.25 91 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 I'd like to switch over and2 read in my testimony in my official3 capacity as the chair of SOSNA. We have4 recently convened multiple hearings on5 both the variances that the establishment6 has requested as well as the specific7 ordinance we're here for today. I'd like8 to read from our letter dated May 21,9 2009 regarding 2201 Christian Street10 outdoor seating ordinance.11 Dear Council President Verna:12 The owners presented plans to the13 community for outdoor seating at the14 above-mentioned business at a meeting of15 the SOSNA Zoning Committee on May 20,16 2009. There were some requests to keep17 the sidewalk cleared of pedestrians, but18 overall, the community supported the19 project.20 On the Christian Street side,21 the owner agreed to limited use such as22 closing that side first, and no smoking23 on that side, either.24 We hope the success of this25 92 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 business encourages other businesses to2 open in our neighborhood. SOSNA will,3 therefore, support the ordinance to4 legalize outdoor seating at this5 property. Thank you very much.6 Signed, John McHugh, as Zoning7 Chair. And my name is Mark Scott,8 Chairman of the Board.9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.10 Good afternoon.11

Hi. My name is12 Brenda Cohen, and I live at 2211 Kimball13 Street, which is two blocks away from14 Sidecar. I've lived there for the past15 four years. And I was there when it was16 Victor's, and it was right before, I17 believe, Adam turned it over. He had18 just purchased it and was still operating19 it as Victor's to make a good, safe20 gesture towards patrons that were going21 to Victor's 'cause we want he wanted to22 show his friendship and make allies with23 them, as any, you know, good business24 owner would.25 93 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Briefly, I live two blocks2 away. I go to the restaurant at least3 once a week, if not more, twice a week.4 I have a two-year-old. They talked a lot5 about the number of feet of the sidewalk.6 That has never been a problem. I have a7 doublewide stroller, I have a jogger's8 stroller. There's many people on that9 block with small children that are always10 walking by. No one has ever been, you11 know, remarking a problem that you12 couldn't squeeze through or people were13 in the way.14 Like I said, I'm there at least15 once a week. The tables are never next16 to the fence that the first panelist was17 speaking of. If you look at it, there's18 no way it could be next to the fence;19 that's, like, physically impossible.20 And, you know, these are people21 that should be commended. Adam and Jen22 should be commended for what they've done23 to the community and for the community24 instead of being condemned by people who25 94 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 just want to speculate about noise.2 And as far as drugs being on3 people's steps and beer bottles, you4 know, I live two blocks away.5 (Timer bell rings.)6

You can go on any7 block in the City and there's Baggies of8 all sorts everywhere you go. You can't9 blame that on one establishment. That's10 the price you pay living in the City.11 And very quickly, wrapping up.12 There's many other, as we know, other13 neighborhood cafés with outdoor seating.14 At Tastebuds at 24th and Lombard, the15 sidewalk is not even as big as this16 table, and they have outdoor seating, and17 that is in the way. So, you know, I just18 don't feel that it's ever been a problem.19 And you can never smell their20 trash. You know, it's a tight place.21 And if you walk by any other restaurant22 and you don't even want to breathe. You23 walk by the restaurant, it is always24 immaculate. And that alley, that is the25 95 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 cleanest alley in our neighborhood. And2 that is over commendable.3 And thank you for --4 (Applause.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.6

Good afternoon,7 Councilmembers. My name is George8 Anthis. I live at 2052 Cater. I'll be9 brief.10 As far as I'm concerned, the11 Sidecar is one of the things that has12 really brought a lot of life to13 especially the 22nd Street corridor. And14 as another parent of a young child, it's15 great to have a restaurant where you can16 bring your child and have a nice dinner17 outside. I'll be looking forward to that18 should the Council approve this.19 It's been nothing but good, I20 think, to the neighborhood.21 Thank you.22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.23 Next panel: Mike Narry,24 Brendon Shank, Steven Hansbury.25 96 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 (Witnesses come forward.)2

Hi. My name is3 Steven Hansbury. I live at 743 South4 Dorrance. I moved into the neighborhood5 just a month ago.6 I just read about the issues7 that were happening with the Sidecar.8 The Sidecar is one of the reasons I moved9 into the neighborhood. I moved from the10 Northern Liberties, where we have11 restaurants and outside seating that12 mingle with the neighbors. I couldn't13 afford to live in Northern Liberties14 because of what that has done to the15 neighborhood.16 So I felt compelled to take a17 day off work and come down here and give18 my support to the Sidecar. And I believe19 that Adam said it: It's also support for20 businesses coming into the neighborhood21 and progress.22 Thanks.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.24 You left my district, right?25 97 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Oh, right.2 (Laughter.)3

Hi. My name is4 Brendon Shank. I live in the 700 block5 of South 22nd Street, and I live there6 with my wife and our nine-month-old7 child.8 And one of the things that we9 brag about to our neighbors in10 Washington, DC and New York City is the11 energy and vibrance of the neighborhood12 and even the safety of the neighborhood,13 and I think that the Sidecar and the14 seating outside is a major contributor to15 that, and I would love to see that16 continuing to set a precedent for other17 investors who want to see places that18 thrive and make communities better,19 bigger, brighter, more energetic, and20 safer.21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.22 (Applause.)23

Mr. Chairman and24 members of the Committee, my name is Mike25 98 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Wang and thanks for hearing us today.2 Very quickly. For context, I3 live at 2219 Christian Street, so I live4 eight doors down from the Sidecar. I'm5 up for work every morning at 5:30. I am6 a vehement anti-smoker and I walk my7 hundred-pound dog past the outside chairs8 at the Sidecar twice a day.9 If the Sidecar was anything10 other than a near-perfect neighbor, I11 would be here in strong opposition today.12 In fact, it's quite the contrary: I'm13 here in strong support as a neighbor who14 lives eight doors down from the Sidecar.15 The reality is that when we16 moved to this neighborhood, my wife and17 I, about two years ago, the safety and18 security offered by the modest, but19 consistent, foot traffic of the Sidecar20 was a major draw. Today, we look past21 that security and think of it as a venue22 that pulls together a diversity of23 neighborhoods, folks who have lived in24 the neighborhood for decades, folks who25 99 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 are newer to the neighborhood, into a2 place where, frankly, there's a dialogue3 and an exchange.4 Adam and Jen have been open to5 every conversation that folks have6 brought to them. They've been7 philanthropic leaders contributing the8 (indiscernible) Park, contributing to a9 neighborhood softball team, and other10 enterprises going on, and, frankly, have11 been a model business in terms of keeping12 our block, the 2200 block of Christian13 Street, I believe, one of the nicest in14 the City.15 So, again, from the perspective16 of a neighbor who lives very, very close,17 I'm strongly supportive and disappointed,18 with all due, to my neighbors in what I a19 perceive to be a gross20 mischaracterization of what's happening21 at the Sidecar and ask for your support22 to keep a great place running in the23 neighborhood.24 (Applause.)25 100 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.2 Next panel: Brian Daniels,3 Michael Mangino, Peg Lane, and Matt Lane.4 (Witnesses come forward.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good6 afternoon.7

Good afternoon.8 Councilman DiCicco, it's a pleasure to9 meet you. I used to be one of your10 constituents as well.11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You moved12 too?13

Yeah.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: What's15 going on?16

It was the whole17 Foxwoods thing.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.19

Okay. Again, my20 name is Peg Talban Lane. I'm a resident21 of 2317 Christian Street, and I'm also22 employed by Yetty, LLC, and representing23 also the Sidecar employees.24 One of the things I wanted to25 101 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 speak to you all about was, the majority2 of the employees that work at the3 Sidecar -- and there are 16 of us -- live4 in the neighborhood. And we live and we5 walk and we bike to the Sidecar. But the6 outdoor seating and other plans that the7 Ritters have for the business really are8 directly impacting our jobs.9 Until approximately three weeks10 ago, I was gainfully unemployed for the11 last 367 days former, and as a former12 professional, kind of going into a13 different business. I have to tell you,14 between myself and our employees on15 staff, this is a huge issue for us, as16 you can imagine. We're also all17 neighbors and live in the neighborhood.18 One of our my coworkers just19 reminded me that outside of myself and20 Adam and Jen, maybe one other person21 actually owns a car.22 We bought our house in 2007,23 and part of the reason why we bought our24 house there was because of the Sidecar.25 102 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 We wanted to make sure that we were going2 into a neighborhood that was in3 transition --4 (Timer bell rings.)5

-- that was going to6 be -- that was looking forward. And this7 was definitely a beacon of hope.8 The outdoor seating on the9 corner provides safety for our10 neighborhood. That 22nd Street corridor11 has definitely cleaned up. And I do12 believe part of that is because of the13 presence of the neighbors and everyone14 out there.15 And I thank you for your time.16 (Addressing husband.) Did you17 want to say something?18

Yeah, real quick.19 My name is Matthew Lane. I20 live at 2317 also. I'm a professional21 chef by trade.22 And I just want to get on23 record that as an eating establishment,24 the Sidecar is extremely well managed.25 103 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Adam and Jen are very responsible owners.2 And from the restaurant side, which I3 believe it is first, before a bar, it is4 an extremely classy establishment, and5 I'm in full support of everything that he6 does.7 So that's it.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.9 Please begin with your10 testimony.11

My name is Mike12 Mangino. I live at 2300 St. Alban, so13 I'm about three blocks away.14 I also do have problems15 occasionally with finding beer containers16 on my sidewalk, bikes chained to my fence17 and drug paraphernalia. However, being18 as that I'm more than three blocks away19 from the Sidecar, I would think that it's20 less like that it's attributed to the21 Sidecar and more likely to the known drug22 sales that are a block away from us.23 Unfortunately, we live in a24 neighborhood where this is a problem.25 104 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 There is trash on the streets throughout2 the neighborhood, beer cans on the ground3 throughout the neighborhood, and drug4 paraphernalia. And to attribute that to5 the Sidecar doesn't seem -- it just6 doesn't seem like it makes a lot of7 sense.8 I also have two big dogs which9 I walk through their seating area four to10 five times a day, and it's not unusual11 for me to be able to get through without12 having anyone need to move.13 Occasionally, I do need to ask someone to14 scoot in a chair, but people are always15 willing to do that.16 Finally, I'd like to say that17 as a person who walks around the18 neighborhood quite a bit, it's very rare19 that the Sidecar is the loudest corner20 that I walk by. Usually, there are two21 or three other corners that aren't22 restaurants but happen to have people23 sitting outside that are enjoying24 themselves that actually make more noise25 105 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 than the Sidecar.2 Thank you.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4 (Applause.)5

Hold on.6 One question, Miss Lane.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Miss lane?8

Thank9 you, Mr. Chairman.10 Real quickly. As an employee11 there, we heard the complaints from some12 of the neighbors about bottles and all13 around. And, you know, in fairness to14 them, that is certainly a likely problem15 coming out of a bar. People walk out16 with bottles and glasses and all.17 Is there any action in the bar18 to try to alert people -- stop people19 from walking out? 'Cause it is a20 violation to walk out with an open bottle21 of beer.22

Yeah, absolutely.23

I think I24 did it once or twice 30 years ago.25 106 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: More like2 30.3

No, no,4 no.5

Absolutely. Our6 management team all manages that pretty7 closely. I mean, when there was the8 seating outside, of course you'd have,9 you know, pint glasses. The majority of10 the beer that we sell -- I mean, we're an11 American Craft Beer bar. It's, you know,12 tap beer.13 I find beer bottles on my steps14 a-block-and-a-half away. It's a part of15 what's still kind of transitioning for16 our neighborhood.17

But, in18 fairness, if you live one or two doors19 away, and you see bottles there, it's --20 you know, I probably would feel the same21 way, that they probably came from the22 bar.23 So I -- my only question was,24 was there any, try to be, as much as25 107 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 possible, enforcement action --2

Absolutely.3

-- to try4 to stop people walking out with --5

Absolutely.6

'Cause I7 had a bar near me, and that was a8 problem, and we had to get the bar owner9 to be a little more forceful.10

Yeah, I know.11 Absolutely. Guys, I mean, most of the12 staff is over here (indicating).13 We are very conscious of our14 neighbors in trying to manage that.15

Okay. I16 just wanted to get that on the record.17 Thank you.18

Okay.19 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Councilman20 Jones.21

Many of the22 people that testified that live on the23 2200 block of Christian said that they24 tried to raise concerns to the25 108 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 management. Have you had an occasion to2 hear of any of their concerns or3 complaints?4

No, sir, I haven't,5 actually.6

So they've7 never brought that to your attention that8 --9

No.10

Okay. And,11 finally, you work at the Sidebar Café and12 have enjoyed it.13 Tomorrow, if somebody wanted to14 open a Sidebar II next to your house,15 would you be for it?16

If it was Adam? If17 Adam was opening it?18

I said "a19 Sidebar II."20

Run the same way,21 managed the same way, and with the22 reinforced wall that he put in 2001?23 Yes.24

Okay.25 109 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 (Applause.)2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3 The next panel is Katie Boyle,4 Marco Porcetto, and Kristen Rein.5 (Witnesses come forward.)6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please7 proceed with your testimony. State your8 name for the record.9

I'm Katie Boyle.10 I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my11 husband. We live at 2016 Christian12 Street.13 We frequent the Sidecar very14 often. If it was up to my husband,15 probably seven days a week, if you guys16 would open on Mondays.17 I wanted to speak first for the18 fact that Adam has been disrespectful. I19 have had the privilege of living in20 Graduate Hospital for about four years21 now and knowing Adam and Jen for quite a22 long time, and I have never witnessed in23 all of the time that we frequent the24 Sidecar them being disrespectful to25 110 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 anyone on any level or anything being2 brought to their attention, any3 altercations at the bar, anything like4 that. It's always been very peaceful.5 I also want to talk about the6 outside space, because, living in the7 City, a lot of us aren't fortunate to8 have an outside space to enjoy. So being9 that we have this in our neighborhood,10 it's kind of a place for all of us to11 feel like we really don't live in the12 City for a few minutes.13 And finally, I'm a business14 owner. I own an LLC in the area, and15 I've been looking to expand in the16 Graduate Hospital area for a few years17 now. And it's really disheartening to me18 all of the opposition that this19 businesses in this district have been20 getting. And I think we should be21 looking at this as a growth for our22 neighborhood.23 And I'm a hundred percent in24 support of this outdoor seating and more25 111 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 businesses wanting to come to the2 Graduate Hospital area.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4 (Applause.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good6 afternoon.7

Hi. My name is8 Marco Bocitto, and I own the house at9 2143 Montrose Street; I've been living10 there since early 2005.11 I'd just like to emphasize to12 the Council, although I don't live13 directly on the 2200 block of Christian,14 being on 22nd and Montrose, it's in15 extremely close proximity to the Sidecar.16 I have never had any problems17 with the Sidecar in terms of noise.18 Similarly, when I originally moved in in19 2005 and it was Victor's, 22nd and20 Christian Street was not a block that I21 enjoyed walking past every morning on my22 way to work.23 Since the transition to the24 Sidecar, I think the neighborhood feels25 112 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 safer. It's a nicer place to live.2 And I fully support the outdoor3 seating, as I feel like that contributes4 a significant amount to the atmosphere of5 the Sidecar.6 Thank you.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.8

My name is Kristen9 Rein. I live at 2116 Christian Street,10 so catty-corner to the Sidecar.11 Similarly, I am in complete support of12 the outdoor seating.13 And I think the Sidecar is more14 than just a restaurant and bar. This15 neighborhood's in transition, and I think16 what is really amazing about the Sidecar17 is that it bridges an old and new18 neighborhood, and this neighborhood could19 be amazing.20 And I think that what I don't21 quite understand is the reticence to move22 forward. I mean, having an outdoor23 seating area is great for the24 neighborhood, and I think all of us who25 113 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 live in the area want it to be an amazing2 neighborhood.3 So that's it.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.5 Any questions?6 (No questions.)7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing8 none, next panel. Thank you.9 Brian Lawson. A. Gurland10 Blaker, Loretta Tague, and Laura11 Blanchard.12 (Witnesses come forward.)13

I guess I'm going14 first. 15 My name is Loretta Tague. My16 husband, Andy, and I bought our house in17 Sidecar's neighborhood exactly three18 years ago this week. m. haven't been revelers from3 Sidecar, true. 21 From the start, Sidecar22 impressed as a neighborhood oasis. There23 were no other businesses, none, anything24 like Sidecar anywhere nearby. 16 Last summer and fall, I had the17 great pleasure to find myself on a18 planning committee for an event annual we19 held in our neighborhood, the first20 annual SWCC Rock and Run. During that21 time, I came to know Adam and Jennifer22 Ritter very well. org. 19 It was Adam and Jen who were20 instrumental in making that all happen,21 especially the music and arranging for a22 headliner, Bernie (indiscernible) of23 Parliament Funkadelic fame. )13

I'll leave others14 here and the Greater Philadelphia Tourism15 Board to address all of that.16 I'll just say that the result17 of this hearing today, as much as they've18 proven themselves as the deserving,19 responsible, neighborhood-friendly20 business owners who should, of course, no21 doubt, get this ordinance approved, the22 implications of today's proceeding are23 much bigger than Adam and Jennifer24 Ritter, it's much bigger than the25 119 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 possible disturbance that might be cased2 from time to time by the sounds of human3 beings happily living and walking in our4 streets.5 This is about the future of6 southwest Center City if it's to remain a7 thriving, safe, and people-of-all08 persuasions-friendly place. We can't9 afford to discourage other new businesses10 by sending the message that one of our11 only existing and thriving and caring12 businesses doesn't have our support.13 Please, Philadelphia, let's not let14 ourselves down.15 Thank you for your time.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.17 (Applause.)18

Councilman,19 start your timer.20 (Laughter.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's22 started.23

My name is24 Laura Blanchard. I live at 204125 120 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Christian; that's about four doors down2 from where Councilwoman Reed Miller3 worked in family planning. And I was4 interested in that; I knew it had been a5 funeral home but I didn't know about the6 family planning. When I moved there, it7 was a rather shady rooming house.8 I've lived there since 1996, so9 that was nine years before the Sidecar10 opened, and I may be one of the few11 people in this room who ever drank at12 Victor's.13 And one of the things that I14 want to speak to right at the moment and15 about the issue of the sidewalk seating16 is the change in the quality of life17 further downstream because the sidewalk18 seating has put eyes and ears on the19 corner.20 (Applause.)21

That was --22 when I moved to the neighborhoods, I23 could set my watch by the noise that24 would start on my block at about 2:07,25 121 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 when the drunks, the drug users, and the2 prostitutes who catered to or bought from3 the drug users started sweeping down and4 conducting their business transactions5 frequently right under my bedroom window,6 and that's not happening anymore.7 What has happened now that we8 have sidewalk seating is, I don't know9 where they are now, but they're not on10 that corner, and they're not on my block,11 and I like that. And I haven't heard12 gunfire on my block for at least four13 years; and that's a very good thing. And14 I think the sidewalk seating has a lot to15 do with it.16 Thank you.17 (Applause.)18

My name is Brian19 Lawson, and I live at 1026 South 22nd20 Street, so I'm about a-block-and-a-half21 up 22nd Street from Sidecar. I live22 there with my wife, Jennifer, and both of23 us strongly support the Ritters and what24 they are wanting to do and are actually25 122 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 doing with Sidecar.2 The SOSNA area has been3 undergoing transformation over the past4 several years. This decision will have5 major impacts on any future development6 in our area.7 The decision on this request8 for café seating will have future9 ramifications on any further development10 of the many vacant and abandoned corner11 properties that are prevalent throughout12 our neighborhood.13 There was an economic14 development study funded by SOSNA a few15 years back, and I'd like to quote one16 statement from that study:17 There is a demand for the18 continued growth of community-serving19 retail and a large and growing market for20 full-service restaurants in particular.21 As the neighborhood continues to22 redevelop slowly, the existing community-23 serving retail will likely evolve24 simultaneously to fit the changing25 123 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 demographics and accommodate the demand2 for full-serve restaurants.3 When people in a neighborhood4 want to go out, it would be nice stay in5 our neighborhood and support our local6 businesses. Currently, unfortunately,7 the majority of those choices live8 outside of our neighborhood.9 We've all invested in this10 neighborhood and want to see it flourish11 and to see our investments continue to12 appreciate. The Ritters have that13 expectation also, and this is going to14 allow them to do that.15 There are other issues that are16 going to be coming up in our neighborhood17 that are going to directly impact me; I18 live right across the street from the19 Frankford Chocolate Factory. At some20 point, that's going to be developed.21 It's a part of the living in the22 community.23 One another side note that I'd24 like to say concerning the outside25 124 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 seating that I have a kind of a strong2 involvement with is the ability of people3 to walk through. My wife uses a4 wheelchair, she's unable to walk or5 stand. We have never had an issue6 crossing through the tables outside of7 the Sidecar. The times that people do8 push their chair out a little bit, it's9 amazing how a kind "excuse me" or "pardon10 me," and people will move the three11 inches, and we've got plenty of room. It12 has never, ever been an issue13 (Timer bell rings.)14

And just real15 quick. On a side note about some of the16 protestants here. They mentioned that17 the law is for everybody.18 A couple of those protestants,19 one owes the City almost $10,000 in20 property taxes he hasn't paid in ten21 years.22 One of 'em, who complains about23 parking and has lived in the area for a24 long time, has her car registered in New25 125 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Jersey, and she can't get a sticker to2 park on Christian Street because it's3 been zoned.4 Those are the people that are5 protesting this and slowing the6 development of our neighborhood.7 Thank you for your time.8 (Applause.)9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I believe10 your wife set me an e-mail.11

Yes, she did.12

I want to13 make a --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I'm sorry.15 Do you have a question?16

Yeah. I17 really don't have any questions. I just18 want to make a comment.19 No one said that the Sidebar20 [sic] is not a good business; nobody said21 that. I said you have to respect the22 neighbors. I don't care whether you're23 good business or a bad business; you have24 to be a good neighbor.25 126 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 We can talk all we want about2 awards and all that, and that's fine and3 that's great. And certainly, outside4 seating, lighting does impact the safety5 of a neighborhood. The more people that6 are out, the more lit it is, it makes7 everybody feel safe.8 When I worked at 21st and9 Christian, I was there nine years. I've10 seen lots of things. The first time I11 ever saw anybody get stabbed was down12 there at that corner.13 However, the neighborhood is14 changing, we all realize that it's15 changing for the better, but people do16 have a right. We cannot impinge on17 others' right. They have a right to say,18 yes, I want this; no, I don't want this;19 or what's my compromise, my compromise to20 be on 22nd Street.21 I don't think anybody -- I22 missed some of the testimony 'cause my23 phone keeps ringing. I've been in24 hearings all day, and I have to keep25 127 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 running in and out.2 So I just want to make that3 clear. No one is saying that this is a4 bad business, but people have a right.5 People have a right to be for it and to6 be against it, and they have a right to7 talk about what they want outside their8 home.9 Thank you.10 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,11 Councilwoman.12 The next panel is Gladys Brown,13 Jeffrey Paris, and Robert Paine.14 (Witnesses come forward.)15

Hi, how you doing?16 My name is Robert Paine. I live at 220617 Montrose Street, which is about a half a18 block from the corner of 22nd and19 Christian. I've lived in the20 neighborhood since 1995, lived down at21 15th and Christian.22 And a lot of people have been23 hitting on really good points here, so24 I'm not going to waste your time.25 128 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 But back, you know, when I was2 riding my bike -- I have friends on the3 other side of the other side of town --4 when I got between 22nd and Christian, I5 rode real fast 'cause people were6 getting, you know, shot, drug dealers.7 All types of stuff was going on.8 Since Adam, you know, has9 started the business there, it's like10 night and day now. It's -- you know, I11 have two young kids. People sit outside,12 you know, have lunch now, and brunch on13 the weekends. You know, it's a great14 establishment.15 You know, that's pretty much16 what I want to say on that.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.18

Hi. My name is19 Jeffrey Paris. I live 2206 Christian.20 And I would have to say since21 Adam opened that bar on Christian Street22 it's much, much safer, it's much cleaner.23 The community is growing, and because of24 the community is growing, some people25 129 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 don't like change. But I say no change,2 no gain. You know, you have to change to3 gain.4 So the people across the5 street, on the other side, I know they6 have little, small problems, because we7 have the same small problems.8 But overall, the progress that9 Adam has made in the neighborhood is10 tremendous. And I feel much, much safer.11 And I was a part of all of that on12 Christian Street, things that has been13 going on. And I fully support it.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.15 (Applause.)16

I'm Mrs. Brown, and17 I live at 2206 Christian Street, and I've18 been there since 1969. And it's been all19 kinds of problem over at that bar during20 the time I was living there. And ever21 since Adam came into the neighborhood,22 he's been a friend. He's friendly, he23 cares about people.24 I have no problem and I really25 130 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 haven't heard any -- the people that sits2 outside and eat and (indiscernible) are3 very courtesy [sic]. You can walk on by.4 And I really have not had any5 problem with Adam at all. He likes the6 people in the neighborhood, and he will7 give them any kind of support.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,9 thank you.10 (Applause.)11 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Next panel12 is Susan Weinman, Bryan Hicks, Jeremy13 Berger, and Shaka Moody.14 (Witnesses come forward.)15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.16 Ma'am do you want to begin?17

Hi. I never18 spoke like this before, so I'm a little19 nervous.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Please21 state your name.22

Oh, my name.23 Thank you.24 Susan Weinman. And I live at25 131 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 2115 Christian, about 150 feet from the2 bar maybe, maybe more. I'm not good with3 measurements.4 I'm in support of everything5 Adam wants to do, particularly the hours6 and the amount of the seating outside.7 It's a very, very small place. Without8 that, jobs will be lost in this economy9 that is a hardship not for just our10 neighborhood but also the people who live11 in our neighborhood that work there.12 And I also wanted to address13 some of the -- first, the councilwoman14 who -- Ms. Reed Miller who expressed that15 people have a right to complain. She's16 absolutely -- I'm in agreement with her17 one hundred percent. The people that18 were here deserve to be respected, they19 deserve to be heard, and their needs to20 be attended to.21 I would not have moved into22 that block had it not been for the23 changes that have happened there and had24 it not been for Sidecar being there,25 132 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 particularly because there is nothing2 around there nearby to go and to eat. I3 do think of it more as a restaurant than4 a bar.5 I'm not a late-night bar6 person, and I do use that thing. I do7 use the outdoor seating because I do have8 two small dogs, but I'm very careful to9 keep them out of the pedestrian walkway,10 which is large.11 I wanted to address something12 that some of the opponents have said as13 far as people going to the bar who don't14 have hardships. I am legally disabled,15 and I live where I live because, quite16 frankly, I need to be able to walk to17 Center City to do what I need to do.18 (Timer bell rings.)19

And I need to20 live in a place that is relatively safe21 and that is within my budget on22 disability.23 I also am a classical singer,24 and I have to come back from my part-time25 133 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 job late at night. I sing with the2 Philadelphia Orchestra. And it's -- I3 know when I'm walking south of south,4 'cause I can't afford to take a cab home5 a lot, I got to hurry up between South6 and Christian. Once I make it to7 Christian, I know I'll be safe because8 there's people on the street there9 because of outdoor seating.10 So my primary concern with11 limiting the hours of outdoor seating is12 safety. I know that people are going to13 be watching, and that's really important14 to me.15 As far as noise, there are16 people at the corner of Webster and 21st17 who are much louder than the bar is.18 I'm just trying to see, was19 there anything real quick that I wanted20 to add to it.21 Oh, as far as trash goes, yes,22 there's a hell of a lot of trash on23 Christian Street. In fact, we have a24 thread online that says "SWCC Equals25 134 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Trash Heap," and they are not wrong.2 But it comes from mostly the3 construction workers. There has been a4 lot of construction on that block5 between, at least on my particular block,6 21st up to 23. I count the whole four-7 block thing.8 And I come out in the morning9 and I clean up my stuff. I go in, I come10 back out in the evening, and it's filled11 with crap. And that's just the way it is12 So I think that's about13 everything.14 (Timer bell rings.)15

Yeah, I know, I16 get the hook.17 I hope there's going to be more18 development on all of those corners that19 are boarded up because if there isn't,20 and if Sidecar goes, I think the21 neighborhood will go down. I think it22 will lose something great. And if it has23 to not expand, I don't see why any24 businessperson would stay somewhere where25 135 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 they can't thrive.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3 Sir?4

I'm Bryan Hicks. I5 live at 2226 Christian Street. And I6 just wanted to clear up a couple of7 things that I heard that sounded a bit8 odd.9 Firstly, as far as beer10 bottles, like, I'm pretty active on that11 block, I'm out all the time. I'm either12 riding or walking, and I've never seen13 any beer bottles.14 Like -- as the lady next to me15 said, it's a trashy block, it's a trashy16 part of the City. There's trash on the17 block, but it's not beer bottles or drug18 paraphernalia or anything like that.19 Also, I've been in the bar. I20 go to the bar, I frequent the bar. And I21 know when it is late, the staff is very22 good about telling everybody to keep23 quiet often. It's never like there's24 people, like, yelling or anything like25 136 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 that.2 And everything else has pretty3 much been said.4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And how5 long have you lived there, sir?6

I lived there for7 about a year now.8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.9

Hi. My name is10 Jeremy Berger. I live at 2202 Christian11 Street, which is directly across the12 street from the Sidecar. I have lived13 there for almost two-and-a-half years and14 have known for Adam and Jen for almost as15 long.16 And I have to say, knowing them17 not only as business people, but knowing18 them as friends, it really is a little19 disturbing to hear that they don't20 respect their neighbors, when I live21 directly across the street from the22 Sidecar and have felt that I have been23 given nothing but respect from them. So24 I would like to say, as a neighbor, they25 137 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 are respectful.2 And I would also like to add3 that I'm also a small-business owner that4 operates out of the same neighborhood,5 and I think it's extremely important that6 we encourage people to -- you know, we7 encourage other small-business owners to8 be able to do the same.9 And I look at the Sidecar as a10 meeting place for the neighborhood. When11 I first moved in, I didn't know anybody.12 And after spending multiple evenings at13 the Sidecar, which I still do on a14 regular basis, I've made dozens of15 connections through the Sidecar.16 And to me, it's a tremendous17 asset to the neighborhood. And if I had18 to look across the street and continue to19 see that empty sidewalk the way things20 are now, I honestly feel it's a little21 bit depressing.22 (Timer bell rings.)23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right on24 time.25 138 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 (Applause.)2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you3 have a car, sir? Mr. Berger, do you have4 car?5

Yes.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Is it7 Jersey tags or Pennsy? Pennsylvania tags8 or Jersey?9

I have10 Pennsylvania tags, although I don't use11 my car very often.12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right,13 thank you.14

Thanks.15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:16 Unfortunately, I'm reading for Shaka17 Moody. He had to go start his shift at18 the Sidecar at about 4 o'clock. So, as19 his roommate and also his fellow20 employee, I'll be reading his prepared21 statement.22 I'm an employee of the Sidecar23 Bar & Grille and have been so since the24 late fall of 2008. As a resident for a25 139 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 year-and-a-half, my roommates and I have2 experienced complaints at our own3 residence for noise and parties, and4 have, in accordance with our neighbors,5 curbed our outside activities.6 As the owner of the Sidecar,7 Adam Ritter, in my view, has always done8 the same to appease the neighbors and9 keep his adjoining neighbors happy.10 I honestly believe that the11 real issue isn't the outdoor seating but12 the evolution of the neighborhood itself.13 Our older neighbors may be mistaking a14 simple, enjoyable expansion as their last15 chance to stop a change that's16 inevitable.17 As I had to leave for work at 418 p.m., I cannot voice my opinion in19 person. Thank you.20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.21 Any questions for this witness?22 (No questions.)23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I think24 there's one witness left at least that's25 140 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 on the list, Roy Campisi.2 Are there any other witnesses3 besides Roy? If there are, please come4 up to the witness table.5 You're not on my list but it's6 fine. Come on up.7 (Witnesses come forward.)8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And,9 again, I'd ask you to summarize. Pretty10 much, I think we got a pretty good11 understanding of both sides on the issue.12

Sure. Thank you.13 My name is (indiscernible) Gurland-14 Blaker. Thank you for time and patience.15 I live at 2205 Montrose Street.16 I have a couple of succinct points, each17 directed toward one part of this.18 In terms of the outside19 seating, number one, to keep the Sidecar20 seating inside would be, I think, to21 limit the impact it has had. So, of22 course, it being there is going to be23 make the neighborhood safer. If we keep24 people indoors, it's going to have less25 141 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 of an effect to make the neighborhood2 safer.3 In terms of the -- also in4 terms of the outdoors, before we even5 knew that there was any sort of -- to6 keep them inside, my fiancée and I7 noticed that there was no longer outdoor8 seating, and that upset us. We wondered9 if something happened. It is a10 noticeable effect in the neighborhood.11 In terms of the noise, there12 are other places in the neighborhood that13 are far, far louder than Sidecar. My14 fiancée and I live closer to the Sidecar.15 The individual who spoke before, at 220016 Christian, we are one door down from the17 opposite side of her house. We sleep18 with our windows open; we've never had a19 problem with noise. And my wife --20 fiancée is a very sensitive sleeper.21 In terms of noise also, we22 don't go to bars on the weekends anymore23 because neither one of us can deal with24 the noise in most bars. And the Sidecar25 142 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 is a notable exception. We can go to the2 Sidecar and we don't have to worry about3 how loud it is. And that's unique among4 the bars in Center City, in our5 experience.6 Finally -- yeah that's it okay.7 Thanks.8

I'm Roy Campisi.9 I live at 2218 Montrose Street, and I've10 lived there for four-and-a-half years.11 And it's still a negative criminal12 element in our neighborhood that -- I13 don't want to reiterate too much on it,14 but you can still buy a bag of crack in15 our neighborhood. I don't know how much;16 I never purchased one myself. Or a17 prostitute you might be able to rent for18 a while. And those elements do return at19 nighttime to the neighborhood. And it's20 noisy and it does disturb your sleep once21 the outdoor seating at the Sidecar stops.22 I think by restricting the time23 of outdoor seating, you're doing -- that24 restraint would be doing our neighborhood25 143 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 a disservice.2 As far as respectful neighbors3 go, in response to what Councilwoman Reed4 Miller was talking about, I don't think5 you get more respect out of a neighbor6 than you do from Adam and Jen and the7 Sidecar Bar & Grille. And the8 neighborhood watch is the outdoor9 seating.10 And that's about it.11 (Applause.)12

My name is Roy N.13 Graffy (sp?). I'm not on the list. I14 live at 2427 Carpenter, which is about15 three blocks away. I've lived there for16 four-and-a-half years. I was living in17 the neighborhood when the -- when18 Victor's was in operation, and the19 transformation has been remarkable.20 I'm a recent father, so I don't21 go to the bar at night. My wife and I go22 to the -- you know, go to the bar during23 the daytime. We have a stroller. We've24 never had any incidences with a problem25 144 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 with the outdoor seating. We do see it2 as a safety issue.3 And Adam and Jen are close4 friends, and we respect them, and we know5 that they respect others.6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any7 questions?8 (No questions or comments.)9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any other10 witnesses on this bill?11 (No response.)12 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you13 all. I know it's been a long day, and we14 appreciate it.15 We will now move into the other16 bills. So that you'll understand, we17 will not be voting on this until the18 end -- until we have heard all testimony19 on the other bills on the list today. At20 that time, each bill will be called up21 individually, the committee will either22 favorably or unfavorably for passage --23 recommendation for passage of those24 bills.25 145 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 So you're welcome to stay if2 you'd like, but just to let you know, we3 don't take action on that bill until we4 hear the testimony on all of the other5 bills for.6 Thank you. Appreciate it.7 We're going to do the next8 bill. Brian, you ready?9

Yes.10 Bill No. 090290, an ordinance11 authorizing the revision of lines and12 grades on a portion of City Plan No. 46-S13 within an area bounded by 26th Street,14 the Schuylkill Expressway, and Penrose15 Avenue by placing on the City Plan three16 rights-of-way for drainage purposes;17 striking from the City Plan and vacating18 a portion of Hartranft Street between19 22nd Street and Penrose Avenue;20 authorizing the acquisition from the DRPA21 and subsequent conveyance to the abutting22 property owner of the bed of the portion23 of Hartranft Street being stricken;24 reserving and placing on the City Plan a25 146 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 right-of-way for various purposes within2 the lines of a portion of Hartranft3 Street being stricken; authorizing4 acceptance of the grant to the City of5 the rights-of-way being placed on the6 City Plan by authority of this ordinance,7 and relocating the curblines of the8 existing traffic island at the9 intersection of Hartranft Street, Penrose10 Avenue, and 22nd Street Department, all11 under certain terms and conditions.12 (Witnesses come forward.)13

Good afternoon,14 Mr. Chairman and Members of the Street.15 My name is Frank Morelli, Survey Bureau16 Manager of the Department of Streets, and17 the Department of Streets would like to18 offer the following testimony on Bill No.19 090290.20 This is not an administrative21 ordinance, but an ordinance requested by22 Mr. Michael Mationi, 399 Market Street,23 Philadelphia, PA.24 The purpose of this ordinance25 147 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 is to place on the City Plan three2 rights-of-way for drainage purposes, to3 strike from the City Plan and vacate a4 portion of Hartranft Street between 22nd5 Street and Penrose Avenue, and reserve6 and place on the City Plan a right-of-way7 for drainage purposes, water main8 purposes, gas main purposes, and public9 utility purposes within the area being10 stricken, and to relocate the curblines11 at the intersection of Hartranft Street,12 Penrose Avenue and 22nd Street.13 This ordinance will also14 authorize the acquisition from the15 Delaware River Port Authority and16 subsequent conveyance to the abutting17 property owner of the portion of18 Hartranft Street being stricken and19 vacated.20 This action will facilitate the21 construction of the Sienna Place22 subdivision, a proposed development, to23 consist of approximately 310 market-rate24 townhomes.25 148 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 This ordinance is supported by2 the Department of Streets and is3 recommended to your committee for4 favorable action.5

Good afternoon,6 Chairman DiCicco and members of the7 Streets and Services Committee. I am8 William Erickson, a City Planner with the9 Development Planning Division of the10 Philadelphia City Planning Commission.11 I'm here to testify on Bill No.12 090290, which was introduced into City13 Council by Councilmember Tasco for14 Council President Verna on March 16,15 2009.16 This bill authorizes a revision17 of lines and grades in the area bounded18 by 26th Street, Schuylkill Expressway,19 and Penrose Avenue by placing on the City20 Plan three rights-of-way for drainage21 purposes and revising the 22nd Street,22 Hartranft Street, Penrose Avenue.23 The purpose of this bill is to24 complete the City Plan change necessary25 149 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 as a result of the Sienna Place2 subdivision. The developer has proposed3 to construct 313 single-family attached4 dwellings and construction of an 80,0005 square foot administration building for6 the Philadelphia Housing Authority.7 The storm-water management plan8 requires the placement of these three9 drainage rights-of-way. This bill will10 revise the traffic island by relocating11 Hartranft southwestwardly to create a12 90-degree intersection at Penrose Avenue.13 The Philadelphia City Planning14 Commission approved the preliminary plan15 to allow this development at its meeting16 on October 17, 2006. This action set17 forth in Bill No. 090290 is consistent18 with the previous policy of the19 Philadelphia Planning Commission.20 Accordingly, we recommend that Bill No.21 090290 be approved.22 This concludes my testimony. I23 appreciate the opportunity to appear24 before you today and would be pleased to25 150 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 answer any questions.2 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.3 Any questions for these4 witnesses from the committee?5 (No questions or comments.)6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Anyone7 else who wishes to testify on this bill?8 (No response.)9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Seeing10 none, the clerk will read the title of11 the next bill.12

Bill No. 090122, an13 ordinance amending Section 9-604 of the14 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Refuse15 Collection," by increasing the annual16 licensee fee for the various licenses17 required by that section, including the18 Private Garbage Collection License, the19 Waste Collection License, and the20 Recyclable Material Collection License,21 all under certain terms and conditions.22 And Bill No. 090123, an23 ordinance amending the provisions of the24 Philadelphia Code regulating Dumpsters;25 151 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 in particular, repealing and reenacting2 the provisions of Section 10-722,3 entitled "Use of Dumpsters"; amending4 Section 9-604, entitled "Refuse5 Collection," to provide that persons6 licensed under that section who own,7 rent, or control Dumpsters shall comply8 with all provisions of the new Section9 10-722, and making compliance with such10 provisions a condition of the Garbage11 Collection License, the Waste Collection12 License, and the Recyclable Material13 Collection License, a condition that may14 be enforced by license revocation;15 amending the enforcement and penalty16 provision of Section 10-718 and 10-71917 relating to the fines, penalties, and18 forfeitures for violations of the new19 Section 10-722; and amending Section20 11-605, entitled "Construction21 Materials," to revise the provisions22 regulating construction Dumpsters, and23 Section 11-609, entitled "Administrative24 Provisions," to increase the fines for25 152 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 violations of Section 11-605, all under2 certain terms and conditions.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.4 (Witnesses come forward.)5 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Good6 afternoon, everyone. Good afternoon,7 Commissioner.8 Testimony? Yes?9 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Sure.10 Good afternoon. My name is Fran Burns.11 I'm the Commissioner of the Department of12 Licenses and Inspections, and I'm going13 to give testimony on Bill No. 090122 as14 well as Bill No. 009123.15 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do we have16 copies of your testimony?17

21 COMMISSIONER BURNS: On Bill22 No. 2 The Department of Licenses and3 Inspections is charged, under the Home4 Rule Charter, with the issuance of all5 licenses and permits to businesses that6 operate in the City of Philadelphia. 8 Thank you for the opportunity9 to provide the Department's testimony on10 Bill 090122. 19 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Good20 afternoon again, Councilman DiCicco and21 members of the committee. 13 Thank you for the opportunity14 to provide the Department's testimony on15 Bill No. 090123. 19 DEPT. COMM. 20 Good afternoon, Councilman DiCicco and21 members of the Committee on Streets and22 Services. My name is Carlin Williams,23 Deputy Commissioner of the Streets24 Department, and I'm here today to present25 160 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 testimony on Bill No. 2 Bill No. 090123 seeks to3 improve enforcement of the current4 Dumpster regulations. I agree that too5 often, Dumpsters fail to be maintained to6 the standards set forth in the current7 Philadelphia Code. 11 Currently, officers in the12 Streets Department's Streets and Walkways13 Education Enforcement Program issue code14 violations for Dumpsters. 19 Uniformed litter enforcement20 officers, through SWEEP, enforce the law21 against violators during intensified22 street patrols. 2 Our SWEEP officers, in the last3 fiscal year, issued nearly 8,0004 Dumpster-related violations. 7 The Streets Department has8 already taken steps to improve9 enforcement. The FY 2010 budget10 allocates resources to put more SWEEP11 officers on patrol. By this fall, all12 officers will be equipped with handheld13 computers to document violations and14 issue violation notices. 20 There are a variety of21 innovative approaches to the Dumpster22 issue, and all deserve careful study as23 we address this issue. 15 A similar study recently16 conducted by the City of Chicago found17 that a franchise could reduce cost of18 business, improve commercial recycling19 rates, and increase the number of20 green-collar jobs, provide cleaner21 commercial streets, decrease truck22 traffic, thereby reducing wear on city,23 commercial, small streets, and arterials,24 reduced air and noise pollution, and25 163 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 6 Unfortunately, the current7 budget environment convinced the Streets8 Department from being able to support9 passage of this bill at its juncture. 3 Thank you for allowing me to4 testify before you today. 7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO:8 Mr. Haigler, are you testifying, or are9 you just here as an expert witness? 12

Thank13 you, Mr. Chairman.14 Good afternoon, almost evening,15 everybody.16 Let me start out by saying I17 certainly understand -- we all understand18 the budget constraints that all19 departments have now. And you -- both20 departments are working as hard, I know,21 as you can to deal with the resources you22 have.23 But let me just ask you first a24 basic question. And Mr. Williams, you25 165 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 kind of addressed it in the beginning of2 your testimony. Do both commissioners3 think that Dumpsters are a significant4 problem in the City of Philadelphia?5 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: There6 are issues, yes, Councilman Greenlee.7 There are issues that we need to address8 in detail in reference to overflowing9 Dumpsters, Dumpsters in the right-of-way,10 Dumpsters that create litter conditions.11 And there should be better maintenance of12 the Dumpsters that we currently have on13 our system, yes.14

Would you15 call it a significant problem? I'm not16 trying to words in your mouth, but would17 you call it significant?18 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: You19 could consider it significant, yes.20

Okay.21 Commissioner, would you agree?22 COMMISSIONER BURNS: (No23 immediate verbal response.)24

As you25 166 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 look at these pictures --2 COMMISSIONER BURNS: The3 pictures definitely depict a problem.4

Pardon?5 COMMISSIONER BURNS: The6 pictures definitely depict a problem when7 you see them, yes.8

I guess9 another general question is, when10 things -- and I would certainly call it a11 significant problem. And I think all you12 have to do is just walk down Broad13 Street. You know, it's a kind of a14 problem if you're walking down Broad15 Street, the Avenue of the Arts, what we16 all brag about in the City, you get to17 whatever that little streets past the18 Union League is, look up that street. Is19 that Moravian Street? Whatever it is.20 It's -- rats are running relay races up21 there sometimes. Obviously, something's22 wrong, you know.23 And despite -- and I know24 there's violations written; I've called25 167 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 in many of those on the 1400 block of2 Moravian Street, and I know you probably3 write violations.4 But clearly, it's not working,5 it's not working. It's maybe not your6 fault, but it's not working. And I think7 what this bill is trying to do is to give8 you more oomph behind the laws, if that's9 sig -- if that's a word.10 And I think you probably have11 talked to Councilman Green's office,12 Commissioner Burns. You talk about the13 resources. Would this -- it's called a14 VHF radio frequency ID tags. Would15 that -- how would you say that would help16 you in enforcement? Rather than having17 to go one-by-one, wouldn't this be a lot18 quicker? I understand it's very similar19 to what they do with, uh --20 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: E-Z Pass.21

E-Z Pass,22 yeah, thank you.23 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Well,24 actually, I had some conversation with25 168 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 our staff --2

Mm-hmm.3 COMMISSIONER BURNS: -- prior4 to today, and we're open to it, but we5 just haven't been able to understand the6 actual cost of the medallions and the7 technology itself. So, we really wanted8 to work further on understanding that9 cost, and then once we do have an10 understanding of that cost, tie that into11 a justifiable cost for the actual12 licensing of the Dumpster.13

I guess14 in all due respect, this bill was15 introduced, I believe, in February?16

Mm-hmm.17

It was a18 while ago. Has any movement been to try19 to study these things?20 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Well, one21 of the things that we don't have that22 we'd like to get is -- my understanding23 is that there are RFPs in other cities,24 requests for proposals.25 169 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Mm-hmm.2 COMMISSIONER BURNS: But I3 haven't had any research or evidence that4 it actually is implemented in other5 cities to really get some good numbers6 around it. So one of the things -- if I7 had some -- the delay. Absolutely, if we8 knew what the cost was in other cities...9

All10 right. Speaking of other cities, I must11 point out, if you know, you know, New12 York City bans Dumpsters except, I think,13 for a window of couple of hours --14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Two hours15 a day.16

Two hours17 a day. Were you aware of that? Were you18 aware of that?19 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: No, I20 was not aware of that, Councilman.21

Okay.22 And I have to admit, that was something23 that I thought about introducing and I24 backed out; wish I had now.25 170 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 But I have to tell you -- and2 this is just me speaking -- if we don't3 do something -- and I think this is4 something, and I'll go on record now5 saying I support this bill 'cause I think6 we have to move forward.7 If we don't do that, then I8 think we have to move towards ban -- you9 know, New York law put in, because10 clearly -- and it's not ail the11 companies' faults; I'm not saying they12 all do it. But this is a huge problem in13 the City.14 I talk about Center City, but I15 think it's a problem in the16 neighborhoods, you know, the corner17 stores, or somebody does, you know,18 reconstruction and they sit there19 forever. You know, it's -- we can give20 hundreds of examples, I think. I21 certainly can.22 And I think -- you know, and23 the other thing as far as time -- again,24 I repeat that we -- this bill, not we,25 171 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Councilman Green, I was a cosponsor --2 introduced it in everybody. And there's3 240 days if this is enacted to get the4 technology in place. Isn't that a lot --5 sufficient time to do your studies to,6 have your conversations?7 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Well,8 without --9

Sounds10 like a lot of time.11 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Oh, it12 absolutely does, and I know that's in the13 bill. And I know that that was put in14 there in order to give the amount of time15 to really get it up and going.16

Right.17 COMMISSIONER BURNS: But18 without being able to even benchmark and19 experience of the technology itself used20 in another city and knowing the cost and21 how much time it would take, or has22 taken, in another city, and without that,23 it's hard to present a direct -- a more24 educated answer to that question and25 172 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 comment. But do I recognize that that's2 why it was placed in the bill.3

Right. And4 I can't believe that eight months can't5 get you to that point. That's 240 days,6 I think.7 And maybe -- again, with all8 due respect, with everything else you do,9 maybe we have to sort of set that10 guideline. And I'm not saying you do11 this, but we're all human. We study12 stuff, we could study it to death, we13 could study it for years. And while14 we're studying for years, the rats are15 still running the relay races on Moravian16 Street. We got to do something, guys, we17 got to do something. And I think this is18 certainly a step in the right direction.19 But like I said, I'll go on20 record. If this doesn't make it or if21 this doesn't change things, I will put in22 the bill to do a New York law, because we23 talk about a green city -- I'm sorry I'm24 making speeches here, I'm sorry.25 173 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No, no.2 Go ahead.3

We talk4 about a green city. 14 And I'm not blaming you guys;15 you guys are here. 20 Sorry. End of speech. 22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No23 problem. I think you've made some very24 valid points. 6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So you can7 follow me on . If you can go to8 . This is the background -- the9 number of licensed Dumpsters registered10 with L&I. Is that number -- are those11 numbers from your office? 3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So it's --4 do we know how many may be unlicensed and5 may be illegal? 7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: No. 14 DEPT. COMM. 18 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: -- the19 Streets Department working closely in20 hand with L&I. 22 In fact, as I mentioned in my23 testimony, we issued over 8,00024 violations, many of 'em for Dumpsters25 176 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 without licenses. These are some of the2 issues that we need to continue to3 address. 22 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So for23 those Dumpsters that your department find24 are not licensed, a citation is issued25 177 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 to --2 DEPT. COMM. 4 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: To the5 owner's name, if there happens to be an6 owner's name on the --7 DEPT. COMM. 9 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And on10 , at the bottom, in bold, red11 letters, it suggests that there's over12 half a million dollars in fines that are13 due to the City of Philadelphia, fines14 and penalties? 18 DEPT. COMM. 25 178 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 DEPT. COMM. 8 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do you9 know whether or not any of those10 violators -- what is the policy when you11 have a company, or companies, who are in12 violation do not pay their fines; is13 there license lifted, do they get a14 renewal? 16 DEPT. COMM. 20 But from the Streets21 Department, when we issue citations, it22 goes through the Bureau of Administrative23 Adjudication. They have a certain time24 limit to pay; and if not, there's a25 179 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 penalty phase. At that point, if they do2 not comply or do not pay by the point,3 they are then referred to our Law4 Department to litigate the amount. 6 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I guess7 I'm trying to figure out -- and this has8 gone on for a very long time. 17 And I was wondering if, when a18 individual comes in, a company comes in,19 to get a license -- just going to the20 issue of these monitoring units -- could21 we not make that a part of the licensing22 process? You know, you have to check off23 certain things if you have a business24 privilege license and all of the other25 180 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 things you check off when you go into L&I2 for a license. 13

ID tags.14 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: ID tags.15 COMMISSIONER BURNS: That's16 part of what -- yes. That was a part of17 one of the comments that I've made that18 it's not actually about needing more time19 to study, but let's get some actual costs20 around what are the costs for the21 medallion and the technology so that we22 can then say how -- what should the23 license cost then be.24 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: All right.25 181 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 I'll come back 'cause I was going to have2 some other issues on other types of3 enforcement as well.4 Councilman Jones.5

Thank you,6 Mr. Chairman.7 You spoke, Commissioner Burns,8 about the cost, the fee ratio based on9 being able to perform a said duty or what10 it costs the City to do so, at least that11 was referenced by other folks from the12 Administration.13 When we take into account that14 cost, are we talking about the added cost15 of vector control that is assumed by the16 City because of the increased number of17 rats in the City of Philadelphia? Or in18 the case of neighbors, neighborhoods, the19 out-of-control level of wildlife such as20 possums and raccoons that we're finding21 in an around -- habitating in and around22 Dumpsters because they know it is an23 available food source and plentiful and24 predictable and things like that? Are we25 182 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 taking into account those costs as well?2 COMMISSIONER BURNS: When we3 look at the cost to provide a service, we4 include the cost allocation plan, which5 is capped. It's a number that's provided6 by the Finance Department for each7 department, and that's about a 40 percent8 increase in addition to the cost of just9 L&I providing the service.10

Mm-hmm.11 COMMISSIONER BURNS: So my12 answer to that is: Yes, that I believe13 that is a part of the cost included in14 the cost allocation plan.15

So you're16 saying the cost of increased rodents is17 also factored into this?18 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Well, the19 cost allocation plan is a way to capture20 not just the Department of Licenses and21 Inspections singular cost to the service.22

Okay.23 COMMISSIONER BURNS: But also24 to capture other costs like the Law25 183 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Department when we have to take things to2 court.3

So those are4 direct costs associated with it, but also5 the fact that vector control winds up6 having to do more exterminations and the7 number of them because of the out-of-8 control Dumpster situation. I mean, I'm9 not sure that that's factored in as well10 in your cost allocation plan.11 And are you saying to me on12 record that that is, in fact, indeed13 considered?14 COMMISSIONER BURNS: I'm saying15 that I would consider it that because the16 cost allocation plan is a 40 percent17 increase in addition to the cost of our18 department, and saying that I would.19

Okay, all20 right.21 COMMISSIONER BURNS: I mean,22 I'm open to really -- to looking closely23 at if we can get some data around vector24 control.25 184 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Would you2 please prove that to the Chair.3 COMMISSIONER BURNS: And how4 frequently they respond to Dumpster-5 related issues, and if that should be a6 line-item cost, so to speak.7

Okay. And8 you mention -- what is the number of9 licensed Dumpsters in the City of10 Philadelphia?11 COMMISSIONER BURNS: It's on12 of the slide, but it's 4,71313 private licensed Dumpsters, 835 public14 licensed Dumpsters, and 183 construction15 Dumpsters that are licensed.16

So the17 number of trash -- do you segregate out18 trash, sanitation, trash Dumpsters? Do19 you segregate that out of the number?20 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Most of21 'em are all trash -- some of 'em are22 construction and others are personal,23 private property Dumpsters. And those24 private Dumpsters could be food Dumpsters25 185 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 behind a construction vendor like the2 ones that you see on Moravian Street or3 ones that are assigned to apartment4 buildings or ones that are put in the5 right-of-way.6 Others are construction7 Dumpsters used usually for building8 permits and so forth, and they use it to9 clean out houses and do major10 construction.11 So those are the different type12 of Dumpster violations -- or Dumpster13 licenses that are issued.14

And you15 don't consider those trashcans there16 Dumpsters, do you, the ones we saw in the17 slide like that? Those aren't Dumpsters?18 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Well,19 they're --20

Those21 wouldn't be registered under there.22 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: We don't23 believe so, that they're registered, but24 we do look at those as if they -- they25 186 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 cannot be set out early on the sidewalk.2 We looked at this and addressed this with3 our current laws on the system.4 And if it's classified as a5 Dumpster, it is allowable if they have a6 permit for it. If it's similar to this,7 then they have file on what the rules and8 regulations are or what the Streets9 Department rules and regulations are,10 which means they can't be set out early11 past whatever the setout requirements12 are, to violate what our current codes13 are.14 So that's how we interpret what15 those laws are.16

So17 conceivably in the presentation that you18 have before you, where there are 2919 50-gallon garbage cans, if they put it20 out within the prescribed amount of time,21 they could actually not have to use a22 Dumpster.23 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS:24 Currently we don't regulate the number of25 187 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 --2

Trashcans.3 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: --4 trash -- we currently regulate to six5 containers; that's what our law states,6 that they can place out on the curb, 127 bags or 6 containers that they can place8 out under our current Streets Department9 rules and regulations for sanitation10 collections.11

I don't know12 what it says about me, but I actually13 know where that alley is.14 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.15

And I know16 that that happens all the time.17 And for the record, it was a18 cut through to get to my parking lot for,19 the record.20 But if we don't regulate these21 things, it can, as is illustrated in this22 picture, get out of control.23 And on the record also, from24 the point of view from Councilman25 188 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 Greenlee, I can surely tell you that if2 it's a problem in Center City, it's a3 epidemic in neighborhoods, because they4 are less likely to get picked up on a5 frequent rotation.6 And unfortunately -- and not as7 a slight on the business or even the8 people who control Dumpsters, the waste9 management folks, neighbors sometimes10 dump in those containers and cause some11 of this flow, because they are not12 locked, they are not secured, and they13 use it as their personal dumpsite, and14 I'm aware of that.15 I know, also for the record,16 that each sanitation company, there's no17 one-size-fits-all company. There's some18 people who have different practices than19 others, and we're clear of that.20 But what we have here today, in21 my opinion, is a situation out of22 control. And for the health and23 well-being of our city, we have to get it24 under control.25 189 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 And when it comes to graffiti2 on these Dumpsters, what is your policy3 on citing a Dumpster there?4 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: That is5 a violation of the law; you cannot have6 graffiti visible on the Dumpster, and it7 must be removed and replaced.8

And do you9 have a codification of how many fines10 were issued based on that violation alone11 last year?12 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Hold on13 for a minute. I don't know if I have it14 broken down.15

You may not16 have it broken down. But if you could do17 that.18 And what is the policy for the19 time frame in which they can correct that20 violation?21 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: They're22 supposed to correct it immediately,23 within 24 hours.24

And how25 190 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 often does that happen?2 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: That3 information I don't have, Councilman.4

Okay. And I5 would imagine that that probably is less6 enforced than it should be.7 All right. Would it surprise8 you that we did an informal census within9 a mile of City Hall here, and we found10 over 835 Dumpsters and trashcans right11 within a one-mile walking distance of12 this building, and that many of them were13 in a condition that you see here in this14 these photos so that we illustrated them15 for you, and that any visitor to our city16 who happened to see that would think that17 this would be a lawless land when it18 comes to Dumpsters and regulations19 compared to some of our other cities.20 You mentioned some of the best21 practices in our cities; how do they22 differ from what we do?23 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Well, I24 want to first of all answer the question25 191 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 that you have regarding the Dumpsters2 with graffiti: We issued 524 citations3 last year.4

And what was5 the cost of those citations?6 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: For7 Dumpster violations for the non-600, they8 were $75 violations.9

$75?10 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Yes.11

Okay.12 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: And in13 comparison to other cities, we do not14 have that data; we did not do a study to15 look at what other cities are doing, and16 that's something that definitely we need17 to take a look at.18 But one thing I mentioned19 earlier about, with franchise fees,20 'cause that does allow us to regulate how21 many Dumpsters and what the laws are. So22 we are looking at alternative ways to23 address the situation that we have24 currently.25 192 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Just a2 point of order on that.3 Is Rina Cutler engaged in any4 of these conversations? because there5 might be -- there could be some issues6 that might be helpful to both of you,7 because she's dealing with traffic.8 You know, if some -- if we were9 to implement, or we were to consider10 implementing, some of these things that11 other cities have done -- I see where you12 said that commercial pickup is done twice13 a day; certainly that has an impact on14 traffic patterns and congestion.15 You know, it's -- I think it16 might not be a bad idea to at least17 engage her in some of your studies to get18 some feedback from what her role is in19 terms of, you know, greening the City and20 making it more traffic-friendly or what21 have you. I think there might be some22 reason to engage in that conversation.23 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: She24 definitely oversees both divisions in25 193 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 terms of traffic and the Sanitation2 Division, yes, sir.3

My final4 question is: You mentioned tickets5 issued last year; what was the number of6 violations?7 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: For8 graffiti on Dumpsters?9

No, just10 total violations.11 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: For12 total violations across the City of13 Philadelphia, or just for Dumpsters?14

Total.15 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: 7,90016 violations were issued.17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Almost18 8,000.19

And I don't20 know where I got this information from,21 but I see almost 8600 tickets given, with22 a total violation amount of $668,000 due23 to the City of Philadelphia, of which24 that amount -- oh, there it is, okay.25 194 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 And we have a half a million on the2 street?3 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Okay. I4 don't know where you get your numbers.5 I'd have to cross-reference your numbers6 and our numbers, but --7

Okay.8 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: Our9 records (inaudible) and I'll have to see.10

That's fair,11 but do you think that that would more12 than pay for some of the inspectors if we13 more vigorously, like, enforced this? I14 mean, right now, we it -- we have a half15 a million dollars on the street owed to16 us just under today's set of --17 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It's 7518 percent non-collection.19

75 percent20 non-collection? I mean, we talk about21 the cost of doing this; look at the cost22 of not doing this.23 I mean -- and I know -- listen,24 I've sat on that side of the table in my25 195 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 lifetime, and I know you have to carry2 the party line. But clearly for us in3 this Council, this is something that4 needs addressing both from the nature of5 the health concern that we have, not to6 mention beautification of this city and7 greening of this city.8 So, I mean, it begs to say even9 the argument that it could not be paid10 for kind of on the basis of just11 collecting these fines alone, we could12 more than pay for what we need to do by13 way of equipment and enforcement.14 Okay. Thank you very much,15 Mr. Chairman.16 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And I just17 want to follow-up on that enforcement.18 And, again, as you go through your19 deliberations and looking for20 alternatives and ways in which we can21 make this a better product as it relates22 to enforcement, maybe we should have a23 conversation with the Parking Authority,24 since they already have people out on the25 196 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 street, and they are really good at2 writing citations, but they're already3 out there.4 It doesn't even require, I5 don't think, any increase in personnel;6 and if it would, it may be a small7 increase. You might want to have that8 conversation as well.9 Councilman Greenlee.10

Thank11 you, Mr. Chairman. And I will certainly12 verify that the Parking Authority is very13 good at writing violations.14 Two quick things, and I don't15 think you exactly answered these two16 questions when -- in regard to some of17 the Councilman Jones's questions.18 On this whole issue of the19 number of Dumpsters that are out there,20 whether it's privately registered or21 right-of-way, are you confident that22 these numbers are in any way right?23 'Cause it seems like a whole lot more24 private Dumpsters are on record as25 197 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 opposed to right-of-way.2 And that doesn't seem to be3 just on visually what I see out there to4 be consistent. It seems to be a lot more5 in the right-of-way percentage-wise that6 I see out there.7 Am I -- I don't know which8 department answers that, but...9 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: We'll10 take a look at it, Councilman. I can't11 answer that right now.12

Okay.13 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: We'll14 take a look.15

Because16 private license or private registration17 is cheaper than right-of-way, from what I18 remember of the Dumpsters, so isn't that19 another cost issue here? Am I right?20 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Private is21 cheaper currently than --22

Private23 is cheaper?24 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Yes.25 198 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

And just2 for the record, Councilman Green's office3 tells me, and they obviously are much4 more cooperative than my staff would be;5 they would look at me like I'm nuts.6 They were out there early one7 morning and counted almost, in just a8 half a mile of City Hall, over 400 in the9 right-of-way. And according to your10 records, you have only 835. So over11 half, or about half, were in the12 right-of-way just within a half a mile of13 City Hall.14 So it would seem like those15 figures -- again, that could get more16 money into the coffers, if you will.17 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Right,18 yeah. I think the only comment that I19 would make to that it that it does make20 sense since this is the center --21

Mm-hmm.22 COMMISSIONER BURNS: -- this is23 the business district, the most24 voluminous concentration of business in25 199 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the City, that those parameters would be2 where we'd find --3

I agree4 with that. But remember, I just said a5 half mile from City Hall, not the whole6 Center City. And there are -- I mean,7 they do exist in the neighborhoods too,8 as Councilman Jones said, and sometimes9 they're more ignored there, you know,10 than they are in Center City 'cause they11 might get less complaints.12 The only other thing I wanted13 to add: On this whole 50-gallon issue,14 right now, they're not considered15 Dumpsters; am I right, Deputy16 Commissioner?17 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: That's18 correct.19

Okay.20 And I understand this bill would21 establish it as such. Aren't, in22 reality, they really used as Dumpsters,23 though? And you might have answered this24 to Councilman Jones and I may have --25 200 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: If2 they're out constantly on the side and3 they're used --4

And5 they're oftentimes privately collected, I6 understand, correct?7 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: That's8 correct.9

Okay. So10 --11 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: It12 wouldn't meet our --13

-- would14 you have a -- do you have an objection to15 that part of the bill, to make the16 50-gallon containers Dumpsters?17 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS: The only18 objection that we have was looking at the19 costs for the technology, and that was20 going to --21 (Indiscernible; parties talking22 over each other.)23

Well,24 we're going to give you eight months to25 201 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 work on that, okay?2 DEPT. COMM. WILLIAMS:3 Understood.4 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Just a5 comment.6

Okay.7 COMMISSIONER BURNS: I know8 that was directed to Carlton, but --9

Okay.10 COMMISSIONER BURNS: -- one of11 the considerations with the 50-gallon, I12 think, should be made between the public13 right-of-way and the private.14

Okay.15 COMMISSIONER BURNS: Just to16 give some consideration around -- just17 thinking about private homeowners18 possibly having this size of --19

But how20 do they get picked up? I think the key21 is oftentimes -- well, aren't they picked22 up privately? Particularly commercial23 retail property?24

Councilman, I25 202 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 just wanted to weigh in. My name is Otis2 Haigler. I'm Director of Legislative3 Affairs for the Department of Licenses4 and Inspections.5 Again, as the Commissioner6 said, I think there is somewhat of a7 distinction between the Dumpsters or8 50-gallon waste containers on the public9 right-of-way versus those that are within10 people's property lines.11 If the issue is that the12 50-gallon container is located on the13 public right-of-way is what's causing14 most of the nuisances by being out there,15 then I think there probably should be a16 separation --17

Okay.18

-- because you do19 have -- I mean, if it's within your20 property line, then we have a way of21 citing the property owner for property22 maintenance issues within their property23 line to get correction that way.24

Mm-hmm.25 203 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

So I think there2 should be some distinction made --3 COUNCILMAN GREENLEE:4 Distinction.5

-- in that area.6

Okay.7 And I hear you. And it's just -- and I'm8 thinking a lot of them are on the public9 right-of-way, though. I mean, I see10 them, I see them out there, so you know.11 And I didn't even realize they12 were not considered Dumpsters at this13 juncture. So it would seem to make sense14 to qualify them as such, especially those15 on the public right-of-way.16 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank17 you.18 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Any other19 questions?20 (No further questions.)21 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you.22 Thank you for your attendance.23 Mr. Abernathy, please call the24 next witness.25 204 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

Tony Mazzullo.2 (Witnesses come forward.)3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you,4 gentlemen. I appreciate your patience.5 I know you guys have been here since6 earlier this afternoon.7 Please decide who's going to8 start first. Identify yourself for the9 record and proceed with your testimony.10

17 I'm Anthony J. 24 The association was formed for25 205 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 the purpose of protecting and promoting2 the interest of the public and the3 members of the Collection and Disposal4 Solid Waste in the Commonwealth of5 Pennsylvania. 3 As to Bill No. m. 9 This concludes my testimony,10 and I thank you again for the opportunity11 to present this testimony to the12 committee. 16

Thank17 you, Mr. Chair.18 Good afternoon, everyone.19 I think I want to just start20 out with the question I kind of posed to21 the City department: Do you consider22 Dumpsters a significant problem in the23 City of Philadelphia?24

The manner in25 210 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 which the Dumpsters are being, number2 one, handled by the customers, number3 two, by outside sources, vandals, and4 that kind of thing, it does pose a5 problem. And we're very aware of that,6 and we would like to meet with the City7 departments to discuss solutions to those8 problems.9 We're very aware of those and10 very concerned, sir.11

Okay, I12 appreciate that.13 The bill was introduced in14 February. Have you made any -- when were15 you aware of this bill? Did you make any16 attempt to talk to the main sponsor or --17

We became aware18 of it in March.19

Uh-huh.20

There was a21 meeting scheduled for June, which was22 never held. We've never received any23 information --24

For June.25 211 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

That's what we2 were told, sir.3 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: You mean4 this meeting.5

You mean6 this meeting, yeah.7 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Right.8

No, no, no.9 That meeting before this, there was a10 meeting scheduled before this.11

Mm-hmm.12

And we have been13 meeting. Our two associations have been14 meeting. And we normally have a small15 staff.16 And, number two, we were not17 invited to any of the conferences or18 discussions that were held by the City19 departments with regard to this bill.20 And we're here today.21

Okay, I22 appreciate that.23 COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: It was24 just made clear by Councilman Green's25 212 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 staff that the organization had -- they2 did reach out to have a meeting about a3 week-and-a-half or so ago but timing, I4 think, was not -- you were not able to5 get your team together to have the6 meeting.7 And I'm not being critical --8

No, no, no. And9 I understand, and that's why I said we10 were not aware that this bill was going11 to be presented today for referral to the12 full Council.13

Okay.14

Until very, very15 recently.16

Okay.17 Just one other thing. You had said the18 problem and you had said about the users19 of the Dumpsters are a big problem, but I20 guess, like anything else, isn't, in the21 end, the owner responsible?22

Well, see,23 that's the problem, sir.24

Mm-hmm.25 213 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1

And let me he2 make an analogy, if I may --3

Mm-hmm.4

-- to those of5 us who go out and rent cars. When you6 rent that car, you're responsible for it7 while you have it.8

Mm-hmm.9

And if you cause10 any problems with it, traffic problems11 and tickets, you get them. If you damage12 it, you get it.13 When we -- we -- our members14 put out Dumpsters, those are in the15 custody of the person who rents them,16 much as we rent a car. To the extent17 that we tell them that they are18 responsible and we train our drivers to19 explain that to the people, we cannot be20 out there every day.21 It's that person who has that22 container, whether it's a roll-off or23 it's a Dumpster, and that's where we24 think that, in conjunction with the City25 214 6/3/09 COMMITTEE ON STREETS & SERVICES1 departments, we can come up with2 something collaboratively which would be3 an enhancement of the present system and4 do much more than this the bill in its5 present form would do.6

Okay.7 You might not have a comment on it, but8 you heard about my comment about New9 York.10

Yes.11

What12 would be your feeling about a bill13 like that --14