going to be a terrace to accessory parking so we don't have like everything paved we don't have
curb cuts we don't have anything else like that because we wanted to go through and get the legal
spaces first before is the parking space paved current currently no it was going to be it was
going to be a terrace no no that's not that's not what i asked is it paved is the parking space paid
let me let me try it the area where you're looking to put the parking
is that already been paved no there's no concrete there no we didn't we didn't do any kind of we
didn't do any any sort of site work to facilitate parking until that's that's not that's that's not
my question site work is the material there no okay let me do it another way is the sidewalk
slopes for parking to get access to it no not yet no
again we didn't we didn't get any of the building we didn't we didn't get any of the building
approval showing curb cuts showing driveways showing that is parking because we knew your
drawings show that your drawings your site plan shows parking and slope and curb cuts your drawings
show that which is right we we submitted this drawing to get the variance we submitted another
version that got approved by the city that didn't have any parking as part of it so in order to get
just the accessory parking because the building as it was built and designed previously didn't
include parking didn't include curb cuts that doesn't show on the previously approved drawing
so in order to start the variance process and get the legalized parking we took our site plan that
already had we showed the parking on it we showed the curb cut we got the approval from the streets
department we developed this site plan that you see in front of you here this is just this is just
to get three parking spaces added to the previously approved application well let me ask you let me
ask you could you build the building by right without accessory parking yes so why didn't you
we we did so we got it approved without accessory parking we got the building permits they're
already in construction we figured before construction wraps up oh so so the picture
i'm getting is that the owner built it and now you didn't try to get a variance for it
because the builder built it already well it's under construction correct it's it's under
construction with that front area initially intended for an outdoor terrace but what we're
saying is because of all the development coming to the block a better use of that terrace would
be for accessory parking so we didn't just pave it and do the curb cuts and stuff like that and say
legalize the condition we built we're trying to go through and do it correctly by getting the
parking legalized then submitting the amended building permits to actually have the curb cuts
that the streets department will approve and then have the paving in the front to facilitate that as
actual parking spaces versus an outdoor terrace space so why do you want all street parking
accessory parking there why do you want it there you can get the building by right so you want it
there you built it and now you're trying to get it approved legalized no they don't that correct
let me let me step in if i could i think tom they have not they didn't make the curb cuts
the original plan is what they're building without off-street parking they're now coming
back and asking us to amend the original application to allow for three i think it's
three parking spaces three per building yes three per building nothing's been done as
as it relates to curb cuts correct me if i'm wrong you have an amended application
to the original plan that was submitted and approved, correct?
Correct.
so what is the hardship to put accessory park in there where's the hardship that you have
So what is the hardship to put a Sesame Park in there?
Where is the hardship?
have to have accessory parking there so as i'm sure you've heard from a lot of the hearings
parking is a huge issue in the city and rm1 for whatever reason doesn't contemplate parking
access by a front street it makes it so that you can have accessory off-street parking but it has
to be accessed by a shared driveway or rear street or really your alleyway but there's a lot of
properties in philadelphia that are not accessed by anything other than a front street so there's
no way to accommodate parking and when you're about to put up um you know a significant amount
of units and you you don't have any off-street parking it becomes a planning issue down the road
so um it's if we could do it another way if we could do it by a rear street or a private or a
driveway or an alleyway we certainly would um there's no other way to accommodate accessory
off-street parking on this lot besides access by a front street and that's just a convention of the
way the code is written well you don't mention that in your application for appeal no you don't
if you look at your application for appeal it says uh emmanuel institutional baptist church
which is no longer a church it's an apartment building and it doesn't require off-street
parking because it is an existing building you mentioned new salem after church they have a
parking lot that's from krosky street you mentioned martin luther king recreation center they don't
have a parking lot but that's a neighborhood local recreation center there's not a lot of cars coming
that recreation center the people are using it locally and one more thing the sensor tracks
for that area says that the transportation mode for most of the people in that area is over 50
public transit so you're not accommodating for the people in the neighborhood or the
facilities in the neighborhood so why do you need so more so much additional parking
off-site parking that is so it would only be three parking spaces for buildings um it's not
50 parking spaces or 20 parking spaces it's three parking spaces i think the reference to
some of those additional amenities in the neighborhood is that while this block is
currently mostly vacant now as these neighborhoods continue to develop if we don't provide any
parking it will become an issue as we've seen in i don't know hundreds of areas all over the city
so some of it is in consideration for long-term planning and it's only three spaces per building
it's not an additional parking so you don't think that the that area that community will increase
in public transportation and not on-site parking it's already over 50 public transportation
i don't know enough to speak to the trends of public transportation or infrastructure but what
i have seen from doing this for the last eight years is that the need for accessory off-street
parking is something that's continually asked about thought about and complained about in our
city um so while i appreciate that people also take public trans transportation there are still
people who need cars and we're looking to just add three parking spaces per building uh but but
transportation but when you add three parking spaces you've taken each cut of the building
it's taking two cars off off the street but you just said that 50 of people are
are now taking public transportation so if they're so so i i guess then if the net gain of that is
still one one additional car off the street and then if the comment is that you know parking is
not that big of an issue and they're taking public transportation and i'm missing the link there as
well it's either that we want public transportation and that on-tree parking is not a problem or that
on-tree parking is a problem we need accessory off-street parking the community needs more
public transportation better public transportation and not additional well that's a septa issue i
I mean, that's not anything that any developer in this city can solve is public transportation issues.
That's a state-wide issue.
I don't know how we resolve that and how three parking spaces is detrimental to that separate goal.
With and how three parking spaces is detrimental to that separate goal
Keep pull up the site plan
okay thank you you have three parking spaces and 10 units or eight units
so therefore some other tenants is not going to have a parking space is that correct yep
where are they going to park so as you mentioned they'll either park on the street or they'll take
public transportation or they may park or they may double park i'm not going to speculate about
someone double parking i don't know sure theoretically someone could double park but i
don't if the space is there they'll use it i'm sorry this is tanya sunk it uh mr holliman
your volume is extremely loud can you just turn it down a little bit please
I will do. Thank you, Kylie. That's better.
One more turn down. Okay, I will. Thank you very kindly.
Our 22nd Street is a heavily traffic street. It has four lanes. One is a bus,
two is parking and one is driving. And in your application, you say it won't
create a traffic congestion well how are they going to get into debarking space
when they gotta go about let's say five miles per hour and the street is doing 20 miles per hour
that's not going to cause a traffic jam um i'm not a traffic planner so i'm not going to
weigh in on the i don't want to say anything inaccurate so i don't want to make any speculation
about how traffic is going to go without a traffic study but it's free parking spaces it's not
an underground garage or a structured parking garage there's plenty of places in the city of
philadelphia where there's accessory off-street parking in this same manner and there's uh they
seem to be able to navigate it um this isn't like a brand new idea um but i i hear what you're saying
well the thought behind it was just to provide off street parking given the amount of development
on this block going up and the fact that from a regular basis we hear constantly about the need
for parking parking parking parking so maybe this block uh has some ties to public transportation
different than other blocks i do still think there's a need for both off-street parking and
public transportation and like i said the block is mostly vacant now so maybe it's not an issue
at the minute but it won't stay vacant and we do have support from those who actually own
um property on this block most of the opposition that we faced was not related to anybody who
actually lived on this block which is uh so that's the evidence that we we have and and
i do appreciate you know the comments that you've made um just trying to not uh state
anything inaccurately based on my experience
as far as i can tell there's only one house occupied on that block correct so where did
1724 and the other addresses of people occupying comes from it's the owners it's developers and
owners on that block that are have properties under construction or in the permitting phase
so they actually have ownership on the block but they don't live on the block
you just said nobody lives on the block i said there's one house that's occupied on that on the
block right and i don't know if that person is in attendance i know that we have uh the owner and um
another owner on the block that if you wanted to you wanted to get them sworn in they could
certainly tweak to the conditions and the ownership on the block better than i could
but the owners of those properties don't live there but they're developing properties on the
but they're developing properties on the block so they can certainly speak to the units coming up
block so they can certainly speak to the amount of unit to come
they're speaking for their own units building correct i mean that's all they would be able
to speak to is they're they actually own property on that block whether they live in it i don't know
it's just relevant they also own it they're going to be maintaining it and responsible
for leasing them etc or selling them if they're condos let me ask you some other questions
uh do you have approved building permit um i would defer to logan on that i'm not involved
with that side of it yeah so we have we have building permits on all three buildings like
i mentioned before the building permits that we have approved just have that space in the front
as being a terrace for the residents to use again if we were to get the variants for the
accessory parking spaces we would submit amended building permits that show you know the proper
driveways curb cuts along with all the streets department approvals as well but currently at
this point we just have building permits for each building with again that front area being used as
terrace okay so i now i now understand you use two separate sets of plans one to get
billing approval but not the real one you want to put there you come back for a zoning
variance to put the all street parking which is the one you wanted from the beginning that
seemed to be the scenario that you're doing here because you had two sets of plans
well well again we we developed the second set of plans we developed the second set of plans once
once the owner realized the the influx of development in the area and we decided that
we were going to use that terror space instead a better use would be for the accessory parking
so we didn't have two set we didn't have two sets of plans from the beginning we had you know all
intents and purposes to use that front space as a terrace for the building but then once once the
owners saw a lot of the development coming to the area you know we we reworked the plans in such a
way that we could get the accessory parking spaces in the front and with all the respect it's not
uncommon for a developer to submit a set of plans and go through moving it forward given how long
some of these processes take and then make changes to it go through the variance process or add on
to a project it's common or or illegal sometimes you get through a project and you make changes to
it uh you try to go for uh something that allows you to move forward for for financing and for a
whole bunch of other reasons and then can add on to it and our process luckily allows
not wholly uncommon either uh it's probably not an uncommon practice but usually you get
community support for doing it yeah we don't have any control over how the community feels
with any given project i've done projects that i thought were very simple and very straightforward
and people are in opposition to them i've done projects that i thought were going to be more
contentious and there's a ton of support for them you don't know that going into it but when you
hear about the concerns with parking you try to provide parking from the outset there's no way
until you move through the process to understand how anybody's gonna feel i was surprised at the
level of pushback for parking i'm sorry i'm sorry we're getting some background noise someone is
shuffling papers or something like that and mr holliman i need you to turn your volume down a
little bit more I don't know why but it's it's extremely loud on my hand okay
is that better a little bit more if you could I think so yes it works for me
Thank you, Chair.
Tom, do you have any more questions?
No, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
All right, thank you.
We can come back to you.
Rachel?
Yeah, I wanted to...
Please.
I would like to get the owner on,
and then we also have uh one of the property owners joe canones uh as well who would like to
testify and also mr young is available now if you would like
great would you like first yes let's get let's get mr young on
mr young please spell your full name i swear you in
jeffrey young j-e-f-f-e-r-y y-o-u-n-g address is 39
J-E-F-F-E-R-Y, Y-O-U-N-G. Address is 3900 Ford Road, Suite B, Philadelphia, PA, 19131.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Thank you. Rachel?
Yeah, Jeff, if you could just share with the chairman and members of the board, I know you did the RCO meeting for this project, so if you could just kind of discuss that a bit.
And I had mentioned that most of the concerns did not really relate to the parking.
If you could affirm that and share anything else that you have, that would be great.
So I represented the developer before the St. Elizabeth's RCO.
We did have that meeting.
The meeting was well attended for a community meeting in this neighborhood.
And the issues, the main issues that were brought up were with neighboring properties, adjoining properties.
um, regarding, um, uh, ownership of space. Um, there was, uh, some concerns about, um,
the traffic because of the curb cuts where the, uh, where the bus may be. Um, but, you know,
as, as mentioned previously, um, you know, buses tend to, uh, ride, uh, slower in this area,
down 22nd Street because the stops are so frequent.
So just knowing the neighborhood being a resident of this neighborhood,
I do know that the traffic congestion is not much of an issue