Hi there. Ashley Miscevich, Manager of Local Government Advocacy at the Chamber of Commerce for Greater Philadelphia. Thank you, Chairman Young, Councilman Harrity and Councilman Phillips, particularly for introducing this resolution. The Chamber is proud to be here today to testify on this issue. The Chamber represents businesses across 11 counties and nearly 600,000 employees in the tristate area. The Chamber's vision for the Greater Philadelphia region is to be a top global destination for business and a leader in inclusive growth. We recognize that a strong business environment is directly tied to the City's quality of life, which is why we're here to support solutions that create a cleaner, more prosperous Philadelphia. A recent survey of our members found that 80% are dissatisfied with the cleanliness of our city. Second only to concerns about crime and the cost of doing business, illegal dumping devalues properties, deters investment and weakens our commercial corridors. Further, as Philadelphia prepares to host a major global event, now is the time to take meaningful action and we know solutions exist, many of which have been amplified here today. Continued investment in smart technology such as AI-powered surveillance cameras and litter mapping will improve tracking, enforcement and resource allocation. Expanding bulk disposal services will help reduce the backlog and provide accessible legal disposal options for residents and businesses. Programs like PHL Taking Care of Business, CLIP, the LandCare Program and the City's Office of Clean and Green Initiatives have already made an impact and ensuring proper support for these efforts is critical. These programs play a critical role in keeping commercial corridors clean, stabilizing vacant lots and enhancing enforcement. Additionally, by leveraging partnerships with organizations already working in this space, the City can extend its reach into all neighborhoods and communities, empower individuals to take action and develop long-term sustainable solutions to keep our city clean and thriving. Our written testimony further details the impact and opportunity of addressing this issue, but the Chamber is committed to being a partner in these efforts. A cleaner city attracts investments, fosters economic growth and enhances the quality of life for all Philadelphians. We urge the City to prioritize proven solutions to ensure Philadelphia remains a top destination for business and tourism. And I thank you for your time today.
Thank you so much for your testimony. I do have a question for Mr. Rader. Is it correct that you guys facilitate this Same Day Work and Pay program?
We have one of the Same Day Work and Pay programs, so we have one that works with CDCs and neighborhood organizations to pay people to work for a day doing cleanup. There are others that are funded by the City as well.
Thank you. I just wanted to make a note of that because my office, when we do have these community cleanups that are organized by community members, we tend to look for groups that have the Same Day Work and Pay contracts to enhance the level of cleanups that we do in the communities, but also paying people who are from those communities to participate in these cleanups as well. So I just want to say that's a great program. And hopefully throughout this budget cycle, we can look to enhance some of those programs. Because again, we're putting money in people's pockets on that day that they're doing a service to our community. So definitely look forward to having more conversations with you about that program.
Thank you, Mr. Rader, for your testimony. Also, thank you, Ashley, from the Chamber as well. Mr. Rader, just for some clarity. You noted that one of your recommendations from the Horticulture Society is that because contractors often illegally dump, how do we find ways to incentivize them to lower fees for contractors to do the dumping. Do you think that -- are there examples from other cities that show that if you incentivize them in this way by lowering the cost of dumping that they would actually do it? Have you seen this done before anywhere else?
I don't have that evidence. I will say take the recommendations as a whole. So I think we even heard from residents today that they collected trash, and in that case took it to a City center and got turned away because it was too much. So there are small businesses that dump because it's the easiest option. And I think a combination of robust enforcement as we advocated and making sure that there are good options together could help a small business that wishes to do right find a better path. I'm not a Pollyanna. I think it's going to take enforcement, and we also advocated for stopping active work where a contractor has illegally dumped.
Okay. Thank you. And the next question I just have for you is about the lot program. You mentioned this thoroughly throughout your testimony, which I think is great that you all continue to do this. Is there a way in which you can see a greater partnership with the Sanitation Department to help you with greening these lots and making them spaces where -- is this something that has been explored or talked about because maybe that could become more of a budget item about taking these lots into spaces that become productive and that is connected with your organization as well?
I believe so. I think we have a nice partnership today with Carlton and Tom Conway at CLIP. And I think CLIP and LandCare are complementary services, where CLIP gets you rapid response as you have noted and cleans lots. LandCare then puts it in stable maintenance for the long haul, and I think leaning into both of those services is really important. We have more vacant land in the city that can ever be fully activated. So LandCare should be thought of to me as a baseline treatment to make sure every piece of vacant land is clean and green for community benefit and available for use. But I do believe that there's possibilities through temporary permitting and some of the other topics raised today for businesses and residents to make more use of these lots, and I would love to explore that with you.
Thank you. And my last question is for Ashley from the Chamber of Commerce. You mentioned that the business association is, you know, not business association, the Chamber of Commerce, the businesses that are within the Chamber, are very interested in ending illegal dumping. Is there a way -- and I also read your testimony that there's several examples across other cities that have led campaigns on it, so thank you. But is there a way in which the businesses that you represent, that they can team up with the City maybe with a camera program or some sort where they're submitting the angles of where the dumping is happening around their surrounding commercial corridor or businesses so that we can quickly identify these individuals and help them with that?
Absolutely. One, I think that that's something that we could communicate to our members and try and find ways that we can leverage cameras that they have. I know the City also offers a business security camera program and understand that they can have the police department tap into those. So maybe there's a way that we could leverage those tools that are already there, but I'd be happy to have further discussions around that and seeing how we can bring our members to the table to help to address not just the issue but help with enforcement that the City is trying to tackle, so absolutely.
Well, thank you for your testimony for the viewing public who's been listening today. We appreciate you. Thank you, Chairman.
Thank you, Councilmember. Are there any other questions for these witnesses? (No response.)
Seeing none, thank you again for your testimony. Appreciate your patience here today. Mr. Pullin, would you please call the names of the next panel to testify.
The next witnesses to testify are Maurice Simpson, Eastern Pennsylvania, Director of Clean Water Action; Allen Burns, owner of R.S. Burns Company, Inc.; and Aminata Sandra Calhoun of Parkside CDC. (Applause.) (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Good afternoon. Thank you for being here today. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony. We do have your written testimony that is submitted for the record as well.
My name is Maurice Sampson. I live at 129 West Gorgas Lane in Mount Airy. My Councilwoman is Councilwoman Bass, and I am also the Eastern Pennsylvania Director for Clean Water Action. I want to thank you, Councilmember Young. This is our first time that we've met. I've been coming to this Hall for 50 years and it's good to meet you. And also to -- there he is, Councilmember Phillips, who keeps calling me every time there is an issue that needs to be dealt with. Thank you so much for that and thank you for introducing this hearing. I want to offer comments today on Mayor Cherelle Parker's Clean and Green Initiative and recommendation on how we can end dumping in Philadelphia. Now, I'm offering these comments. I want to make sure it's clear that I'm an established solid waste management professional. I've been involved in the industry for some 34 years, predating my position with Clean Water Action. I was honored to serve the City of Philadelphia as its first Recycling Coordinator. Was appointed by Mayor Wilson Goode in 1985. I've also provided professional services, assisting in startup and recycling programs in major cities across the country in the 1990s, and advised commercial recycling at the University of Pennsylvania for more than years 4 and several architects and design 5 and construction of waste recovery 6 systems for five student apartment 7 buildings that are now standing on 8 Temple University and the 9 University of Pennsylvania. I'm 10 also the longest-serving member for the Streets Department Solid Waste and Advisory Committee. I was appointed by Mayor Ed Rendell in 1994. I want to praise Mayor Cherelle Parker's Clean and Green Initiative, its Director Carlton Williams and the Streets Department personnel in their unprecedented effort to in part clean up 40,060 blocks in commercial corridors in the Mayor's first year in office. Commercial corridors free of litter is good for business, and clearing illegal dumps improves the quality of life in neighborhoods that have suffered for decades. This is important after years of promises, and I have heard them personally about what's going to get cleaned up. Mayor Parker has delivered. She's making it happen. And that's to be -- she's to be thanked for that. Praises aside, we can do better. Picking up trash does not make it green. What makes it green is not picking it up. It's how you put it down. Burning or landfilling trash is terrible for the environment. Burning trash poisons Black people and Brown people in Chester and landfill poisons primarily White people in rural Pennsylvania. It is only green, what is picked up is destined for reuse, recovery or recycling, and that is not happening. We need to clean our corridors, but cleaning and abatement alone is not enough. An effective program combines four elements: Prevention, abatement, enforcement and education. Clean Water Action in partnership with the Trash Academy launched a Clean Philadelphia Now Campaign in March of 2022 as an alliance to link the actions of those involved in cleanup campaigns, identifying open dumping and demanding better waste collection practices to keep our neighborhoods and the city clean. Between July and December of 2022, we held a seven- part online teaching to become experts on illegal dumping and what is to be done about it. The Clean Philadelphia Now platform summarizes our findings and recommendations to end illegal dumping forever by 2028. For the record and your consideration, that platform is attached to my comments which I have submitted for distribution to the Committee. The platform offers a series of actions in the four categories: Prevention, policies and practices to stop dumping before it occurs. Abatement, to clean up after dumping has occurred. Enforcement, to those who litter and hold dumpers accountable. Education Outreach, a long term initiative to address behavior and systemic issues.
These are necessary components for a comprehensive strategy to end dumping in Philadelphia. Many of the details have already been presented by some who have spoken and will yet speak after me so I'm not going to get into all of now. But in conclusion, I want to offer you several points and a challenge on behalf of the Clean Philadelphia Now Coalition Clean Water Action, members of my organization. Dumping happens because we tolerate it. Without prevention, enforcement, the clean but not so green initiative conveys that dumping must be managed because it cannot be ended. Neighborhoods with designated cleanup days will host permanent dumpsites. Neighborhood leaders who are currently unable to seek cleanup when they call for the City can be assured that once they have this designation, they will have regular cleanup as a function of the initiative. And I absolutely assure you none of those programs are going to be in Mount Airy or Chestnut Hill. As an effective prevention enforcement program would drive illegal dumpers to private-run operations like Richard S. Burns Company that recover, recycle and reuse most of the material they receive. And Mr. Burns couldn't be here today but when I finish my comments, I have his comments to read. On our present course that facility will be unable to compete with the convenient free dumping services allowed by the City, forcing the layoff of the 200-plus workers that they employ. A comprehensive and strategic prevention enforcement program would dramatically reduce the City's cost for cleanup and create private-sector jobs that are also tax assessment -- assessment -- assessed for the city. I challenge every member of the City Council to declare a zero tolerance for dumping to adopt the Clean Philadelphia Now Program and insist that the Mayor enhance the Clean and Green initiative with an aggressive program of prevention and enforcement that supports recycling over disposal. I challenge each of you to support the mission of our coalition and fight dirty by refusing to approve a budget for the Clean and Green initiative in the coming fiscal year unless it includes line items that fund a definitive and aggressive program, prevention and enforcement and recycling, a program that delivers, not studies or campaigns with posters and slogans. City Council has the power of the purse. You're the most powerful entity in here. We need to make sure that we have programs that aren't going to just clean, because cleaning is important. Cleaning and maintenance litter is one thing. We've got to deal with that, but dumping is something we should not be accepting as a reality and we need to make it a mission to end it. I want to end by making just three last points: First, the current provisions of The Philadelphia Code are adequate to support a low-cost enforcement program. Please don't waste time rewriting them. They need to be enacted, not rewritten them. Why do I say this? I've been coming here for years and every time we have one of these hearings, they rewrite the laws and then they figure they consider it as done. Please we have what we need. It's on the books. Let's just enact what's already there. Second, this hearing on illegal dumping was overdue and you've gotten an earful already, and there's a little bit more to come. Honestly, the experts about illegal dumping are I think people have been living with it and you're hearing from them today. I have not addressed what I consider to be the reckless, expensive and unnecessary plan for twice-a-week trash collection for the whole city. Yes, we do need it in some parts of this city. There are homes that were built for families of one that have families of five. They don't have a backyard. They don't have a front yard. They're not going to live in their apartments with trash. So where does it appear? Nicely piled against trash cans. There are some areas of the city that need it. I don't need it in Mount Airy. I've got plenty of space.
I can buy an extra can. Don't waste your money coming out to see me twice. It does mean I'm going to have more litter because one of the biggest causes of litter are trash trucks. So you're going to increase my litter and give me service that I don't need. So please -- and I'm sure I could talk to my neighbors. Cindy isn't here. I'll make sure that we don't complain that we don't have it if everybody else does. We do not need twice-a-week collection in Mount Airy. Finally, Philadelphia is the only large city in America, the only large city in America with the recycling rate that has gone down. We have gone from 20% down to 13%. The Street Department doesn't project adding composting for at least years. But that declaration, that effectively abandons any thought that we're going to have zero waste by 2035. We don't have a policy for recycling in the city of Philadelphia. That subject also needs a hearing to talk about why that is. A well-managed waste collection program directs material towards recycling, towards composting and towards disposal. If you do it right, very little to dispose, most to go in the other direction. That is one waste program that is not the way we think about it in this city, and that is something that we need to explore for at least the fifth time since I have been here, but that is since I've been here in the city. After 30 years and four Mayors in Philadelphia, it's really clear to me nothing will change about waste management Philadelphia without a clear strategy and the absolute support of the Mayor. Mayor Parker is about cleaning up, and thank goodness for that. We're doing that. There is more to be done. Thank you again for this hearing, but let's commit to zero tolerance for illegal dumping. Let's fight dirty together and let's end dumping forever by 2028. And we can do it if we decide that that's what we need to do. Thank you for that. If you'll give me a second, I'll just read the statement here that I was given from Mr. Burns.
So that will be noted for the record. We do have testimony from Mr. Allen T. Burns, President of Richard S. Burns Company, Inc.
Okay. Then let me say this. He has offered to have you come out and look at his facility, his remarkable operation. His father was on the First Advisory Committee under Wilson Goode. He had two trucks. He now has his whole family in the business. He's retired. He's got 200 people hired and he recycles about 80% of what comes in. It's the same exact material that you see being dumped. He recovers it all. So I'd like the opportunity to set up a tour so you can come out and see this as Council, because you can see how it's done and it employs people. Thank you.
Good afternoon to you City Council and thank you for being here and receiving us. And I want to say I thank you City Councilmembers who are steadfast this afternoon in giving me the opportunity to speak to you. My name is San -- my name is Aminata Sandra Calhoun. I am the Director of Centennial Parkside CDC, Sanitation and Environmental Programming. I've been hired there since January of 2021 and Jamie Gauthier is my City Councilperson for the East Parkside Section. Not to tarry you any further, I want to share with you in my position as Director of Sanitation and Environmental Programming with Centennial Parkside, I had the privy Monday through Friday to collect trash, debris and illegal dumping. So what I want to share with you is my record for 2023 to 2024, my account of illegal dumping in the East Parkside Section of Philadelphia. 73% of construction and contractor dumping, 51% to 55% of sheet rock, and we are only talking about East Parkside. 20% plaster, 35% gallon pails of that joint compound, 15% of liquids. 57 phone call reports to 311 from me in reference to the illegal dumping. Year 2024, undeniable increase of illegal dumping. 87% to 90% of construction and contractor dumping materials illegally dumped, 78% of sheetrock, 40% of plaster, 48% of gallon pails of joint compound and 25% of liquids in the East Parkside Section. I need zero illegal dumping in East Parkside, and not just in East Parkside but throughout the Philadelphia community. Now, I want to share with you as I leave City Council this afternoon, what I am going home to on a state highway on Belmont Avenue across the street from my physical living condition. This is a residential home. I have been contending with this since 2019. And this is what I'm going home to and this is what I leave out -- this is what I leave out of my front door with every day. I have now developed living here in Philadelphia with the trash, litter and illegal dumping, environmental distraught, distress, EDD, and I need to get healed. (Applause.)
Thank you for your comments and testimony. I do have a question for Ms. Calhoun, particularly regarding the picture that you just showed us. For me it looks like that no 6 one should have to live like that or see that on a regular basis. So I just want to encourage you to continue to work with your City Councilmember because that looks like someone obviously with a mental health issue in order to hoard trash like that, right. We have to look at all aspects of this, right. And again, we have to look at what creates these types of environments. And so, we must make sure that our neighbors, one, are educated but to have the help that they need in order to sustain a life and to be a good neighbor, right. A lot of folks don't even understand what it is to be a good neighbor. So I encourage you to keep doing what you're doing and working with all stakeholders to make sure that folks receive the resources they need in order to improve the quality of life for your neighborhood. I want to thank you for your job that you're doing at the nonprofit CDC.
And, Councilman Young, may I say I have consistently, constantly and daily entered into all of the systems with this situation as late as last week. Even I understand that this individual may definitely be clinically diagnosed hoarder, but should I in the community be subjected to this? I mean, I am fed up and I want to leave Philadelphia because I cannot continue to live like this. It's a state highway. Belmont Avenue is a state highway. And in reference to he may be ill, well, he's making me more ill. And I need to know that this needs to be resolved like yesterday. And although this may be -- I mean, I have taken this to every system in the Philadelphia system, L&I and everybody and it has to halt. We're getting ready to come into spring, summer. The maggots be running all around the pavement and the flies you see literally the rodents, the mice and whatnot coming out of this. He has now resorted to putting the trash bags, which I have spoken with Carlton Williams, which is not his fault and his purview, and I've reported to 311 and sent pictures, that now he's putting the trash bags on the third floor roof. You can visually walk down the street and see at least 15 to 20 trash bags on his third floor roof. And I called the Fire Department. I said, this is a safety hazard. From the weight of the trash bags you can see visually the roof is beginning to go down and it's a safety hazard to the other homes around. Because if that trash should catch a fire, roofs are old wood and dried wood, that's going to create a massive neighborhood fire. I'm tired of this. I am 76 years old and I refuse to live like this. And no 15 poo-poo on the young lady who expressed she's 86 and coming out her door to possums. I ain't doing that. I'm leaving Philadelphia because this is beyond living in a funk dump third world. I'm done.
Thank you for that again. Thank you for your work that you continue to do in your neighborhood to improve your neighborhood. Chair recognizes Councilmember Phillips.
I just want to quickly applaud Maurice. He's one of the major reasons why we're doing this hearing today. And I just want to say thank you for that. And also, this zero tolerance when dumping I couldn't agree more. You provided some really great insight into the twice a week, yeah, because even in some neighborhoods I represent I think about the fact that they may not need it because we do have a lot of land and so forth to do that. So how can we put more of our funding into the prevention mechanism. So, Maurice, I just have a question for you around, I know you have in the report, just quickly is there maybe one top recommendation that you can provide us that will end illegal dumping here in the city of Philadelphia, that's in that report so we can add that on record?
Well, I'm not going to steal Shari Hersh's thunder because she's going to handle that when she speaks. But really we need to seriously look at this idea of providing the opportunity to dump small loads of material at convenience centers. Now, let me make something clear because of what I misheard. This is not about free dumping. If you have pounds in 18 your car and you go to one of these 19 centers, they charge you $100. The 20 minimum tub is for a ton. So you know, $30, something that's meant -- we're not talking about free. Free does not work anyway okay. All free does is move it from one place to another and bring you stuff you've never seen before. But this is about providing such opportunity so that people can bring their waste there and (inaudible) it there. And beyond that -- and I'll only say this and then Shari will put the onus on it, we don't have enough places to take stuff. Okay. We don't. This is something we can do. This is not a freebie. This is not something this can be taxed neutral. In fact, the Circular Philadelphia wrote a whole paper on this talking about the steps and how it could be tax neutral, but we need to do it. Now, it has been brought up and early on it was looked at by Carlton Williams and his crew. And I think it's going to take some time and effort to put it together. We don't know where it is, but that's a real powerful thing that we could do at least to get started. Beyond that I believe that we do need to make really clear we need to publicize these folks that are doing it because shaming really works. I mean, people will stop doing it and pay for it because they don't want to get acknowledged. So I've learned over the years working with the Law Department if you ask them if it can be done, they tell you all the reasons why it can't. If you say this is what I need, they figure out how to get it done. So I mean, we need to make sure that we ask the right question, how can we make this happen and not what's in the way because that's what the lawyers do. But I've been around long enough that I know that that works.
It's come now more than ever because we're investing so much money into cleaning, which everyone has actually seen in the city of Philadelphia is actually working. But now, it's like, oh, how many more times can we do that, right? And so, I think you're right. There is a thing with the Law Department that I've noticed since the time I've been on Council that they have this tendency to always give reasons of why they can't do something. And I think you're right about this in alternate sources.
An important thing that I've been bringing up over and over again that I've never heard but I'm going to try it again. Okay. The City of Philadelphia's last comprehensive solid waste plan that looked at how we collect trash and where we put it was done in 1949. At that point in time we were collecting it on horse wagons and the biggest part of trash was the ash that we were picking up in 1949. When I was hired in 1985, part of it was to redo a comprehensive plan literally neighborhood-by-neighborhood to look at the best way, the most efficient way to collect. The only difference between trash collection now in 1949 is locomotion. We put an engine in instead of a horse wagon. Do you know why there are two workers and one driver on every one? It's because you can't drive the horse cart and pick up the trash at the same time. That is not a joke. That is the history of how we've come to this particular trash collection system. Let me be clear: We have one of the most hardest working group of people in the city who work for the Streets Department. They do 3000 miles of streets every week. That is a miracle. 3000 miles of streets every week they pick up. If you lined up the trucks of trash bumper-to-bumper of how much trash is collected in a year, it would go to Atlantic City six times and halfway back. That's a lot of trash. That's a lot of hard work. I don't want anybody to think that I am talking about anything that's wrong with people working hard. But we don't have a system of management and waste collection that is modern, that uses the best techniques, and we are spending a fortune and getting very little. And you want to do the math. Figure out how much it cost per worker to pick it up and that's when you're going to get an accurate number. Compare that to other cities. You're going to find out how much we are paying and not getting the service.
And that's the part I'm saying, like there could be a way that we spend less on the sanitation cleanup, we could possibly -- I'm sure some of the workers would love not doing so much heavy-lifting cleanup if we can help them in that way. And some of that money that we spend on all the cleanup stuff could go back into their pockets so they can just -- as workers and for their families. But the last thing I was just going to say and I just want to tell you, this has been very insightful this whole day. We've gotten a lot of ideas. And hopefully, we can really implement them this time around so we're not looking like the 19th and 20th century.
We need the comprehensive plan that we look at how we deal with trash in the city. Other cities do it once every four or five years. We haven't done it since 1949. Okay. One more time.
I'm sorry for your frustrations with that and I get it, but I've actually dealt with this one before so I wish you would give me a little time. I got the person's address now and I'm going to have my people start working on it. I found, because I've dealt with this with somebody else, and I'm still dealing with it, we had it, I had them come in, they cited them, they cleaned the whole thing up. Three weeks later he filled the front yard and backyard all back up. He's a hoarder --
I wish you would just give me a little bit of time. My office is 408 right down the hall. I have the picture of the lot. Please stop there and give your contact information to the person at the --
-- 408, yeah, right after you're done, right here. As a matter of fact, I'm going to give you my card and then you won't even have to do that. You can just call in.
I'll still stop there because this is so critically important.
Give me a couple of weeks to get this done because we have to do it legally (inaudible) --
Thank you graciously. This is well worth it because I'm about to go crazy.
Yeah, and I get it. But same thing with the person I'm trying to help. And that's in Port Richmond, the neighborhood is beautiful just like Parkside, and then you got this one guy in the middle of the block that's got a pile up to his windows.
Oh, his windows is just bulging. But the roof I'm really, really, really concerned about now.
Yes. Please just drop your contact information so we can stay in touch and I'm on it.
Thank you both for your testimony here today. (Applause.)
Mr. Pullin, would you please call the names for the next panel.
The next witnesses to testify are Shari Hersh of Trash Academy, Shannon Reiter of Keep Pennsylvania Beautiful. We have Lois Williams and Towanda Tynes of Trash Academy, David Evans and Leonard Rhett of Block by Block. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Good afternoon, Ms. Hersh. Please okay state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
Yeah. My name is Shari Hersh. And first, I'm going to read Shannon Reiter's testimony. I am going to skip a bunch of it since it's on the record in consideration of how late it is. Thank you to Councilman Anthony Phillips for inviting me to present this testimony today and the subcommittee for Streets and Service for convening this critical issue -- on this critical issue of illegal dumping. My apologies for not being able to attend this hearing in person. My name is Shannon Reiter, Executive Director of Keep Pennsylvania Beautiful. I have been with this organization for nearly 20 years. And in that time, I learned valuable lessons about litter and illegal dumping. One of them is that if we want to address illegal dumping, we need to change our systems. Systems change takes time. It is incremental at best and it is hard. I was asked to speak about our work as it relates to illegal dumping, provide both context based on our research and insights on how we believe we can collectively tackle these issues. Before I begin sharing what we have learned through our research, there are two things I want to stress and ask you to consider at this hearing. First, it is critical to understand that illegal dumping is a behavior and behaviors can be changed. Social science has taught us that there are four primary mechanisms to drive that change, including written expectations; rewards and penalties; education; and Infrastructure. Cleanups are not a recognized mechanism for change. However, this leads me to my second point: While cleaning up illegal dumps does not stop illegal dumping, cleaning up illegal dumps does not stop illegal dumping, it is a necessary component of any larger strategy. With that said, I would like to provide an overview of our research and what we have learned. About 10 years ago, Keep Pennsylvania Beautiful released Illegal Dumping in Pennsylvania, a Decade of Discovery, recommended policies and regulatory changes to prevent illegal dumping in Pennsylvania. This report was a culmination of over a decade of studying and mapping illegal dumpsites in every municipality across the Commonwealth, a public opinion survey and an illegal dump cleanup cost analysis. In summary, Keep Pennsylvania Beautiful documented over 6,000 illegal dumpsites. KPB also found that the average community cleanup cost was nearly $3,000. It cost 617 a ton to clean up an illegal dump site, nearly nine times the cost of proper disposal at a landfill. That was in 2014. We can only assume those costs have risen. The purpose of the study was to document and understand the full extent of illegal dumping, beginning with information gathered by KPB and supplemented by other sources, including surveys, cleanups, stakeholder focus groups and a public opinion poll. Based on the conclusions of the analysis, the report provides recommended programs and policies that could help prevent illegal dumping. The research confirmed illegal dumping is not an isolated problem. Dumpsites are found in cities, along rural roads and back alleys and over hillsides. There are certain commonalities in the materials left at dumpsites and in the conditions and circumstances that facilitate the behavior. With that in mind, we categorize dumpsites into the four following categories: Inactive legacy dumpsites, which in Philly are active legacy dumpsites; active commercial waste dumping; active dumping of household waste and theft of service. The report outlines different approaches to address the four types of illegal dumping. It is important to understand that the motivator for active commercial dumping is different than those dumping household waste. We learned that there are root causes for illegal dumping that can be summarized as lack of awareness, ability to pay and financial gain. Although illegal dumping is a crime, it is often committed by people who otherwise would not consider themselves criminals in nature.
Some people get mixed signals about the existence or remediation of dumpsites, believing them to be publicly-maintained disposal areas. A sense of entitlement exists for those who believe that the public has access and open use of every dumpster. There are instances where people simply do not have the resources to pay for proper waste management. Households living below the poverty line can be placed in situations in which they must make difficult choices between their families, immediate needs and obeying the law. The willingness to pay is very different than the ability to pay. A portion of illegal dumpers do so to avoid the cost of disposal for which they have already charged their customers. There are individuals and businesses that use illegal disposal to cut their operating cost and use it as a competitive edge against honest and responsible businesses. Their willingness to pay is what drives commercial dumping, including the large tire piles and mounds of construction and demolition waste that are all too familiar across Philadelphia. In addition, the research shows that illegal dumping occurs most frequently where the risk of detection and penalties is low, where there is a lack of acceptable disposal or recycling outlets. Finally, the public has a poor understanding of what constitutes illegal dumping and even elected officials are often uncertain how they can ensure that cost-effective, universal access options are available. Law enforcement and judicial officials may not be aware of the full impact or the cost of the community. The research suggests possible solutions to aid in preventing dumping. And while not all would be applicable to Philadelphia, they could be worth considering. I encourage you to review the report for full analysis and findings. In 2019 in partnership with the Department of Environmental Protection and PennDOT, KPB released the Pennsylvania Litter Research study which found that Pennsylvania roadways have more than 500 million pieces of litter. Simultaneously KPB released the cost of litter and illegal dumping in Pennsylvania, a study of nine cities. The latter report is most relevant to today's discussion. The research expanded our efforts to quantify the challenges associated with litter and illegal dumping and provided an indepth analysis of the costs incurred by individual municipalities when managing litter and illegal dumping at the municipal level. The study provided cost averages for the following: Litter prevention, illegal dump prevention, education outreach, litter abatement, illegal dump abatement and enforcement. Regardless of size and geography, each of the nine case-study cities spent significant sums annually to prevent and clean up litter and illegal dumping. No two cities were identical in their approaches, but one thing is evident when looking at these costs in aggregate. More resources have been allocated to the abatement of litter and illegal dumping than to measures that are categories as prevention, education and outreach or enforcement. As mentioned, these are recognized mechanisms to change behavior. Financial resource allocation for the nine cities was as follows: 80% of all analyzed costs were categorized as abatement, which is cleanup. Did you hear that, 80% of all analyzed costs were categorized as abatement, that's cleanup. 13% were infrastructure-based solutions. 6% represented enforcement programs. And just 1% represented education and outreach. Overall this means that these cities spend about four times as much to remove litter and dump material from their communities as they do to prevent it from being generated in the first place. In the long run, the only way to reduce this cost burden overall will be to invest more in preventive measures. Because without them, the cost of abatement will only continue to rise.
I encourage stakeholders to review this report and know that there are case studies for each city that highlight their specific findings but also the different ways they are tackling these issues. Philadelphia did participate in this study and those findings will be shared by a following presenter. In conclusion, as Philadelphia continues to develop their strategy to address illegal dumping I encourage stakeholders to consider each of the four mechanisms for change: While necessary, cleanups alone will not change behavior. A successful strategy will also address laws, enforcement, infrastructure and education. Mine is a lot shorter.
Oh, so that wasn't yours. That was still -- okay. Thank you. Please proceed. So if you don't mind, if you can summarize. We do have the testimony written as well. We have everyone's written testimony as well that will be included for the record.
You have it all, yeah. So I'm actually going to only talk about prevention and small haulers. So I'm going to talk about the scale of the problem and one of our proposed solutions to commercial dumping on the streets and vacant lots of Philly. So we embrace the Clean and Green initiative. But with over 40,000 vacant lots and nearly 3000 miles of streets in Philadelphia, cleaning alone is neither viable nor cost-effective in ending dumping. So I'm going to read to you the four drivers of illegal dumping and all of them are relevant for small haulers: Illegal dumping occurs most frequently in areas where the risk of detection and penalties are low. Economic conditions and business opportunities lure individuals to dump illegally, a lack of acceptable disposal or recycling outlets which tempts people to dump illegally and active illegal dumpsites attract others to dump illegally. So they have all four things are present in small haulers. It is -- small haulers are part of the ecosystem of waste management. When you have a kitchen remodel or small repair, what do you do with the discarded materials? It's against the rules to put those materials in our trash. So where are those materials going? Guess what's in the black bags that you see in our vacant lots and alleys? It's primarily C&D waste. It's actually primarily sheetrock broken up from small jobs. We are calling for the sanitation convenience centers to accept the load of small haulers for a small fee implemented through the eCLIPSE system to better legally manage these materials. S. It's 17%. C&D waste is one of the leading materials in dumpsites. To better understand what drives C&D waste through our participatory research practice, we conducted a deep dive into sheetrock. With 14 people in the room, from sanitation workers to block captains, closed loop material specialists and recycle experts, among others, we were shocked to find an enormous glaring hole in the system here in Philly. There is no real plan for small haulers to legally manage their loads. If the issue of small haulers is adequately addressed, we will see a major shift in illegal dumping in our neighborhoods. There are two problems. One is that small haulers have to pay the same minimum tipping fee as a large compactor, which is typically a ton or 2000 pounds. There is only one site in Philly, one in the whole city that will accept smaller loads for $90. But the minimum range is about $140 a load. To give you a sense of the size of a small vehicle load, when a tree came down in my yard and we cut it up and took it to the Fairmount Recycle Center, it filled my car, like you couldn't see out of the windows, and it weighed 80 pounds. So they're being charged for 2000 pounds whether or not they have a small pickup truck or whatever. The second issue is there are only four places in the entire city that accept the loads of small haulers. Currently, the city website lists locations for 4 C&D waste disposal, but only four 5 of those accept loads from small 6 haulers. Of those four, only two 7 have the correct phone number. 8 Really? 9 Last, I want to point 10 out that when we cleaned up dumped 11 material from vacant lots and 12 streets, when we, all of us, the 13 city of Philly, it ultimately ends up in Chester to be incinerated or it is dumped in the Tullytown landfill. If we expand the use of convenience centers, waste can be sorted and diverted into reuse, lessening our impact on the environment and our good friends in Chester. We must solve this issue. Where and when there's a lack of acceptable disposal or recycling outlets, dumping will continue to occur. And to repeat the research about prevention, in the long run the only way to reduce this cost burden of dumping overall will be to invest more in preventive measures, because without them the cost of cleaning will only continue to rise.
At the scale of our dear city, neither cleaning nor enforcement will be effective enough without addressing this critical issue of small loads of C&D waste most often in the hands of small haulers.
Thank you so much for your testimony. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
As a quick request, can you please if possible summarize your comments.
Yes. So we do have -- if you submit a written testimony, we do have your written testimony that will be made a part of the record. It is a part of the record. We have been reviewing the written testimony while we were up here and prior to the hearing as well. So if you can summarize, that would be helpful.
Mine is short and sweet. Well, not so sweet. My name is Lois Williams. Good morning -- well, good evening everyone. First, I want to thank Councilman Phillips for getting us here today. And I am a Co-director of Trash Academy and also a member of HACE NAS. That's the Neighborhood Advisory Subcommittee, and I'm in Councilwoman Quetcy Lozada's District. I'm in 19140, Fairhill. I'm here to talk about legacy dumpsites. I want to direct your attention to the post on display, a legacy dumpsite weeks after the sitewide cleanup. And you just saw the pictures. This is right after the dumpsite cleanup. There are two sites one block from me. One is at 4th and Westmoreland right next to a day care center and an elementary school. The other is on Ontario between Orkney and Lawrence Street. I live on Lawrence Street. These sites have been dumped and cleaned for the 10 years that I've been living on Lawrence Street. My son is disabled. This is the part that really pisses me off. My son is disabled and he uses a powered wheelchair. He would like to be able to just go right around the corner to the store on his own, but he can't because that's where that dumpsite is. He would have to get out in the street just to get around that to go to the store. And I mean, would you want your child to have to do that? Okay. We have been cleaning these sites for many years and we are tired of it. People in Chestnut Hill don't have to go through this. What we need to see is prevention, enforcement and exposure of these people that keep dumping on our sites. I mean, shame them, you know what I'm saying. I really believe that that will help. With this we can stop dumping. I commend the Mayor for her Clean and Green program, but cleaning is not enough. We need to judge progress not by how many blocks were clean, but how long they stay clean. Me and all the people you see here would greatly appreciate the right kind of help, which is cleaning, prevention and enforcement. We would like this to be solved by 2028. And if we work together, we can get this done. I believe that. I also want to say one more thing. I am getting ready to buy a new sofa. I have no idea what to do with the old one. From what I understand, if you call for a bulk pickup, it's like a month backlog. So what am I supposed to do with the old sofa? And I'm supposed to be getting one within the next couple of weeks. I'm done. (Applause.)
My people being members of Philadelphia City Council and my fellow city residents. I am Teea Tynes, proud resident of zip code 19133 and that's the Fairhill section of North Philadelphia. I'm a member HACE Neighborhood Advisory Subcommittee and Die Dumping Die and Co-director of Trash Academy, a grassroots organization that addresses litter and dumping on a systems level. Mayor Parker's introduction of PhillyStat360 is supposed to, as stated on the website, empower City departments to set ambitious goals, enhance performance and boost community satisfaction. That is very much appreciated. We hope that it will offer much-needed transparency and accurate metrics. Out of the five indicators that this tool is tracking, we're here to address the cleaner indicator as it pertains to illegal dumping. I've noted since first reviewing the PhillyStat360 site in January that the cleanup time has gone from to days with a 7 target time of five days. This 8 would indicate system limitations. 9 It suggests the need for a direct 10 link between 311 calls and cleanup 11 data. 12 Here are some steps we 13 can take to set realistic and 14 achievable goals for cleaning up 15 illegal dumpsites in Philadelphia: 16 One, improved transparency and data collection on the 311 system to ensure the PhillyStat360 metrics are clearly connected to 311 call data so we can understand how effectively the City is responding to reported dumpsites. Two, foster collaboration with relevant city offices to get detailed information on the 311 system and illegal dumping metrics to understand the full context behind the numbers being reported, including the number of sites, average cleanup times and tonnage collected. Three, advocate for the City to set initial cleanup goals that are based on their current capacity, starting at a realistic level like the 16-day average we're seeing now. Then work to gradually improve that over time. Four, push for the City to measure and report on not just cleanup times but also the total number of sites addressed and the volume of waste removed. This will give a more complete picture of progress against illegal dumping. Five, engage community members to consistently report dumpsites through 311 so the City has accurate data on the full scope of the problem. This will help inform realistic goal-setting. I have some other key additional metrics and targets that should be included on the PhillyStat360 dashboard so that it can be better addressed -- excuse me, to better address systemic issues like illegal dumping. But that's a part of, you know, you have a copy of that already so I'll leave that. So initially we want cleaning and waste removal to increase. Then we want these things to decrease because they will be unnecessary. Think of this as a sign on the job that tells you the accident-free number of days in the workplace. Holistically, this can be done by way of abatement, which is cleaning up, education and outreach, prevention and enforcement. Others have and will talk about those things this afternoon. It is folly to think that cleaning alone can cure the city of this ill. It is a mere bandage on something that should be regarded as a rapidly metastasizing cancer. Also, bandages are quite costly. $48 million a year. Cure or darn near a cure is more costly upfront, but in the long run can give the patient a better quality of life, life-saving and pocket saving. Just think of what the funds spent on bandages can be used for other than bandages. A cleaner city and a reallocation of funds would be a grand outcome. So I'd like to thank you for your time and attention. Make it a great day and best in health. (Applause.)
Thank you so much for your testimony, Ms. Tynes. Mr. Evans, please state your name for the record and begin your testimony.
All right. Hello, everyone. David Evans. I'm here because I love Philly. I want to share about our next steps. I live down North in the zip code 19121. I am co-founder of the nonprofit Block by Block Philly, where our mission is to make Philly the cleanest city in America. We began this nonprofit five years ago to support neighbors who want to clean their blocks. We provide tools, sponsor refreshments and music. We make a party out of the cleaning experience. However, we need more efforts in preventing dumping. Block by block Philly was invited to join forces with this dynamic group three years ago because of an anti-dumping rant on Instagram. And here I am most interested in putting Block by Block Philly out of business. I'm here to share about one site that continuously gets dumped on as -- sorry. I am here to share about sites that continuously get dumped on. We've coined them legacy dumpsites. The one legacy dumpsite I'm going to share with you is behind an elementary school at 25th and Diamond called William Dick. The last time this site was dumped on they left construction material. The upsetting part is that there's a convenience center, a free dumpsite, a block and a half away from the school. The ironic part is that this same convenience center does not allow anyone in Philly to dispose of construction materials. Tell me about our next step. Our current step to get this legacy dumpsite cleaned is call 311, call CLIP, call the Sanitation Department or call our District City Councilmember. Either way it cost monies to pick up. So let's work smarter. Let's cut out the middleman, invest in our next step. Our next step is to open at least one of the six convenience centers to construction materials. Allow small haulers to pay a nominal fee and deliver construction materials properly instead of legacy dumping behind our train tracks, our elementary schools and our lots. I believe that we can make today better than yesterday by turning Philly into a culture of clean. It starts right here, right now, in this room, with this community. I believe that we can end dumping by 2028. I believe in the best of us because I love us. Let's go Philly. (Applause.)
Thank you for your testimony. I do have a couple of questions just for anyone on this panel. If you can explain to us what research or what data exists that tells us that if we were to reduce fees, that the bad actors will utilize these centers?
It's not really reducing fees. The high fees are at the commercial facilities. It's 2000 pounds. We're saying accept their small loads and charge them for it but in a proportional way to make it affordable because we think it's the high bar and the lack of places that's contributing to so much vacant lot and park dumping.
Okay. So you believe that if we provide incentives that are proportional, a price that's proportional, then some of the bad actors will stop being bad actors and will pay to dump their waste at some of these sites?
Yes. And it's part of a bigger strategy. You know, it has to be multi- pronged. But, yeah.
Thank you. Any questions from members of the Committee for the panel? Chair recognizes Councilmember Harrity.
I agree that there needs to be another avenue. Like you said, if they're charging $100 a ton, it's 2000 pounds. You're not -- you know, you got a couch and something like that, if they charge the minimum like a quarter of a ton, so it'd be like 20, bucks. People 5 I agree would pay the 20, 25 bucks 6 rather than dump on the street. 7 But if you got to pay 100 bucks 8 rather than 25 bucks in our 9 neighborhoods that becomes 10 something different. 11 And I agree. I mean, I 12 see it all the time. A lot of the 13 dumping that's going on in my 14 neighborhood is actually from the 15 neighbors, you know what I'm 16 saying. So I get it, I get it and 17 we get that. I just don't know 18 how. I'd have to get with some of 19 my smarter colleagues that are 20 lawyers to figure out how we get 21 the private companies to lower 22 their rates. I know some of them 23 do a half a ton, but still that's 24 $50, $60, you know.
And Burns opened his site to small haulers on Saturdays and they were overwhelmed.
Which actually goes to your point which is if there was a place for them to take it, would they use it. That's the whole thing. That's this kind of hole in our system right now. And since so much of the illegal dumping is C&D waste, it's because of that hole. It has to be addressed.
Yeah. So I still don't really know what to do with my old sofa. Nobody can tell me what to do with the sofa because I can't put it out with my trash and I can't hold in my house? So what am I supposed to --
Yeah, we could -- or you can even call your City Council Office to help them arrange the bulk pickup from the City. But if you put it out, most likely they're going to -- we can work with them to take it.
I can tell you the trash guys in my neighborhood they throw them right in there.
Because it's a pain anyway. And they figure they're going to send them back later to get it when I complain I guess, so they take it. I've seen them throw them things right in the truck in my neighborhood.
Yeah, yeah. Because they'll try to get away with it, but I believe they're supposed to take couches.
Mattresses they don't have to take because of the bed bug thing. They have to be wrapped a certain way. But couches, I believe they just throw them in the back of the --
I mean, they break up fairly easy. Once they start that crushing thing, that thing chomps into little pieces in no time.
Councilmember Phillips, do you have anything else to include with that?
Thank you. Any other questions for this panel? (No response.)
Seeing none, thank you so much for your testimony. (Applause.)
Can we get Leonard Rhett and then the final witnesses to testify are Justin DiBerardinis, Jazmin Ricks and Philip Gritzmacher. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Thank you. Please state your name for the record and begin with your testimony.
-- members of this Committee, Councilman Anthony Phillips. I have one thing that I want to do here. My name is Leonard Rhett. I live in the 19120 section of Philadelphia which is Olney. I'm a Block Captain. I've been so for the last nine years. I'm also a committee member and I enjoy being a part of Trash Academy and Clean Philly Now. I'm going to hold up something because I want to get your reaction to it and it's not going to make any sense. Tell me what you think when you see this. What do you think when you see this? (Applause.)
Take that sentiment, multiply it by 100,000 and that's how frustrated we are with illegal dumping in the city. We fight for this. I'm also a block captain so I don't have a problem working with the Parker Administration. I don't have to work for her or anybody else because I live here. My son is 14 years old. He has never played outside on our block because of the dumping that goes on. And at this particular point the time for talk is over. We can have meeting after meeting. We can have community meeting after community meeting. We can have hearing after hearing. I'm pretty sure all of our Councilmembers are aware of what's going on with illegal dumping in the city. I'm pretty sure of that. But all we are doing is talking. We've been talking for a long time. We need to see actions. We need to see it in motion. I'm a block captain. There are times when these committees have been set up or crews that set up to come out to clean up the blocks, it would be nice if we as block captains can be notified when they're coming so we can work with you to make that effort easier. We don't get that notification. When we find out anything, they're coming down the street. My block has been on a ban, a 10-year ban to keep it being closed off for block cleanups. And I'm trying to get Captain Burks at the 35th to explain why it happened and how we can get it done to remove, because many of you know it and you've been here a while, block parties are as essential to the city of Philadelphia as the cheesesteak and the Philadelphia Eagles and all of y'all know that. All of you know that. But to tell us that we can't do it for 10 years is a travesty in itself. That's how a lot of our connection with our neighbors is done through block parties. They come out, you meet them, you conversate with them, you share different things with them. I haven't been able to do that the entire time I've been a block captain over there. It is the 200 and 300 block of East Albanus. It is a different block because it has no break in it.
The 200 block of East Albanus, I'm very familiar with that block --
No, it's in the 9th District. I have friends and family around there.
It's actually the 8th District. Cindy Bass is my Councilperson. And I can honestly say that since she's taken over this District, I have developed a relationship with her that I'm positive that we are going to get things done. But at the end of it, all I'm asking for is we eliminate all the conversations and actually start working towards it. That's all I want. That's all my neighbors want. We had just -- there's a lot that's directly across from my house that had two cars sitting on it for over a year. That's me, the ugly guy in the picture. But it took so long, a number of 311 calls, a number of calls to different departments. I even had Crystal Jacobs come out once. So it's not a question of not knowing. We just want to see action. That's all we want. That's all I want. I have no problem with working with anybody in this city if we can work towards something where we can get this cleaned up. Sustained effective enforcement, sustained effective prevention, sustained preventive education, all of these things can be done because there are enough people here to get it done. In all honesty, I don't think we need to go outside the city to get it. Everything that we need to fix this problem is in the house. It is here already. And instead of spending money to have outside people come in, use the resources we have in this city. They are there. That's all I'm asking for. I want to work with anybody who wants to work with me because I live here, I love it here and I want to lead this city better than I found it. (Applause.)
Thank you so much for your testimony. Please proceed with your testimony. State your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Certainly. My name is Philip Gritzmacher and I reside in the Lawncrest section of the city. I'm Secretary of the Lawncrest Community Association and I'm here to discuss an issue of concern to our community. Actually Councilman Phillips in his early remarks talked a fair amount about this. The 5600 block of Newtown Avenue is a one-way street running northbound from Adams Avenue to Godfrey Avenue in our community. It is a poorly-lit and isolated street which has attracted a serious amount of short-dumping for many years. Community member Dallas Green has taken the lead in organizing regular cleanups and in prevailing upon the City to clean up the street on a regular basis. Multiple cameras have been installed but have not proven to be effective in reducing the short-dumping problem. The problems with short-dumping are serious enough to have led some members of the community to entertain the possibility of closing the street entirely. We feel this is an extreme solution and we would like to suggest an alternative path. We would like to suggest that Newtown Avenue be made into an entrance to the Tacony Park. This would enable members of the Lawncrest community to access the park, which is currently inaccessible to our community. m. m. Currently, the road has no sidewalk so in addition to the installation of gates, a sheltered sidewalk would need to be installed. We have discussed this with the TTF Watershed Partnership and they have pledged their cooperation with this plan. The Community Association discussed this plan at a recent meeting, and the consensus was that this plan would work to eliminate most of the short-dumping which occurs at night and will enhance the quality of life in our community by providing access to our world-level quality park system of the city of Philadelphia for the residents of our community. Thank you for your time and consideration. ) MR. DiBERARDINIS: Thank you, Committee. My name is Justin DiBerardinis. I'm the Executive Director of the TTF Watershed Partnership. This has been a long afternoon, but I actually have found it to be a joyful afternoon to be here with so many frontline trash warriors here in the city of Philadelphia. This hearing committee was filled with the people who are fighting day-to-day. And I actually find this to be an exciting moment to be someone who's fighting trash right now in Philadelphia because, one, we got an Administration that is taking this seriously and putting their name on we're going to be a clean and green city. At the same time, we got the William Penn Foundation systemically investing in the grassroots of keeping our neighborhoods clean. So many of the groups here today are receiving funding for the first time to take this on from the grassroots level. And I think it's at the grassroots level where we will win. So the funding is there. It's coming from the top from the Administration. It's coming from Council, but it's coming from the streets. And this is the moment where we're going to get Philadelphia clean. I want to talk about what we're going to do with the funding we're receiving from that to address some of the things we've talked about today. One, that pile of tires we see there, that is just across from Snake Road just so everyone knows what we're looking at on Snake Road up in the Lawncrest section of Philadelphia. That's not a historic image. That's on the ground today. That's 4000 tires. We're going to get those tires on April 5th. This is now the center piece, as Director Carlton Williams said, of the City spring cleanup. We are coming out in force 200-people deep to get those tires out of our park and take this park back, but there's more that we're going to be doing. Yeah, I think we can clap for that and we're going to need a lot of hands to get to 200 so anyone who's free on April 5th we can use you up at Adams and Snake Road because we're going to come for that and we're going to come for that together. ) MR.
DiBERARDINIS: But more importantly, we have funds as TTF to put night vision cellular trail cameras through this park. We are going to catch some of these guys this year. We're going to catch some of these folks in the act. And what I don't want to hear is that we can't prosecute people who we see their license plate and their car full of tires in the park overnight. That doesn't make any sense to me. Because I'm going to tell you this, the people of the city are fed up right now. And if we were to take that evidence and put it out in front of a jury of Philadelphians, I think they're going to do the right thing. I think that person is going to have to explain who had his truck that night, was his truck stolen? Who else in his family has his keys to the truck? I think we're talking about doing some basic police investigation. Because I'll say this, I know there's a lot of crime in this city. And that may not be a crime against a person, but that is a crime against the people and we should treat it like a crime against the people. And the other thing that we've got booked for those dollars we've got in, and I think it speaks to what I heard from Councilman Harrity today, we got money for billboards. Because when we catch these guys, those trucks are going up on billboards in the neighborhood. But I got to tell you, Councilmembers, please if we have the videos and the footage of these people with trucks full of tires in the park, we need to prosecute. We need to put them in front of a jury. And that's the thing that is just not happening. Because I'm going to tell you this, if that happened in New York, if that happened in Chicago, if that happened in Boston, someone would have some fear of God in them that they'd be going to jail to do that. They do not have that fear of God in Philadelphia. ) MR. DiBERARDINIS: Yeah, I'll take that. Thank you, Kathy. You can clap for that. If we put a couple of these guys on trial, I think we're going to send shock waves through the illegal dumping community in this city. But we're going to need to work together to do that. So the grassroots, we're on the front line. We're going to do it. We're going to need some help on the back end, but this is how we're going to turn it around. So that's all I got to say on that. Thank you everyone for staying for this hearing today. I think we did a great job. Thank you, Councilmembers, for being here with us. )
Thank you so much for your testimony, Mr. DiBerardinis. Are there any questions of these witnesses? (No response.)
I just want to briefly say, Phil and the whole Lawncrest Association, they've been amazing for many years with illegal dumping and cleanups. And I just love Justin's energy. He's really been great. He's just come into our neighborhood about a year ago and we had a lot of fresh ideas and vision. So we're excited about this. And to be honest with you, I just echo what Leonard said. There has been progress for residents who are listening with illegal dumping since this Administration has started because the Mayor as well as Carlton Williams, they're doing a lot of cleaning now that is way better. Their cleaning is way better than what the previous administration did. We all know that. Now, it's like all right, cool, we got that down, but now we got to get the other one down which is the prevention. And I think that's why I want to say, Leonard, we are making progress, but now we got to get on this prevention side better. So I think we're excited about it. So thank you so much. This has been a good hearing. I've got a lot from this. Thank you. We're going to do some work. (Applause.)
Thank you gentlemen for your testimony. Is there anyone else in the chambers wishing to make a comment on this matter? Did you speak already, sir?
Get on the mic please. (Witness approached Witness table.)
Dallas Herbert. I just want to say I think it's very important for the enforcement. I think we need transparency. I think when you catch these people dumping, the neighborhood needs to know who, when and where. That's all I want to say. You know me, I've been doing five years cleaning up and I've never received a word that said, well, we cleaned up or we're coming to clean up or we have cleaned up. I only know it when I go through there. I think you should -- the leader of that neighborhood should find out who, when and where once you catch somebody doing this.
Thank you so much. And with that, we heard a lot of testimony today from members of the public, folks, advocates, those in this industry and also the City. And I do think that there are some common themes that everyone can agree upon is that we need sustained enforcement and education measures. And I do think that as we look into this next budget cycle, those are some things that City Council will be looking at on how to get toward those goals of enforcement and education. So thank you so much for everyone's attendance today. And with that, this concludes the business before the Committee on Streets and Services today. Thank you very much for your attendance and your patience today for this long hearing. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. (Committee on Streets and Services concluded at 5:38 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. __________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL