liked to, to call every single person if they wanted to. I'm not sure exactly what they did.
However, same verification that they provided to other people that participated in the meeting, I'm sure they provided that same verification.
So you did not provide the addresses to the RCO, and the RCO counted them, even though you did not provide that information to the RCO, correct?
Actually, I did provide that information to the RCO.
The voting slip actually required them to put their address and phone number on it.
It was scanned.
All of that was sent to the RCO.
Well, the vote that I saw on the screen, that was conducted at the end of the meeting, showed a tie vote. So you added these individuals after the meeting, correct?
No, during the meeting, right at the end of the meeting, I mentioned in which you were on that meeting, so I'm not sure.
I was, and it was a tie vote.
I think you might have convenient amnesia, but what happened at the end of that meeting is that.
After the vote was cast, I informed Kevin Brown, who was conducting the meeting, that there was 23 people that were in the room.
I took the video and spanned the room so he could see everyone that was in the room, and they also cast their vote.
And he said to scan those over, and I scanned them over.
All right. Well, is Mr. Brown available to be cross-examined on this issue, Mr. Chairman?
because I'll save it for him.
Is he available to be cross-examined as a witness in this?
Mr. DeMarco, it's my understanding that he is a participant in today's...
Mr. DeMarco, it's my understanding that he is a participant in today's proceedings as somebody that's available.
I didn't call him as a witness. He's not on my list.
All right.
You can have him test. He can test.
All right. Well, what I'll do is, what I'll do is, Mr. Chairman, I'll show you after I'm after when I get my turn to present,
I'll show you the screenshot of the vote that was taken at the RCO meeting.
And it'll be clear, you know, what's going on here.
but I'll continue with my cross of Mr. Jenkins. Mr. Jenkins, you gave, you currently serve the
homeless at this location, correct? I do. Okay, and you serve them meals? Yes. Where's the kitchen
on your site plan? I don't see a kitchen. It is a warming area. Our food is actually provided,
prepared off-site. There's 115 churches that are part of our network. There's also several
companies that are involved with our organization.
The food is actually prepared offsite and brought in.
Less than 10% of the food is actually prepared on site,
which is actually the requirement
in order not to have a commercial.
All right, but the refusal that I have for this case
does not mention either service of hot or cold food
or prepared or pre-packaged food.
That's something that's been added, isn't that right?
We actually already provide pre-packaged
and prepared foods at the location.
So the folks that would be coming in to the program would be coming into the normal meal that's already been approved.
All right. Well, where on your plan is the food served?
The food served on the main level, and that is on the upstairs that already exists, that is on the dining level.
All right. And that's not provided to the board or in your exhibits, correct?
Well, yeah, exactly.
Because of the fact that the overall personal care facility, that is on the lower level,
they would be coming in as people in the community already do and to be able to receive a meal,
just like anybody else currently already sees a meal.
So we're not adding to any service in that particular area.
And that's why it's not included on the plan.
All right.
Well, let me ask you this.
This existing use is a house of worship, right?
That's what the refusal says.
do you agree? The existing use is a mission church. And so, and there's a-
But do you agree that, Mr. Jenkins, do you agree that the refusal states the existing use as a
house of worship? It is a house of worship, yes. All right. And you don't dispute that description,
correct? That is correct. All right. And there's accessory offices as well, correct? That is
correct. All right. So there is an existing use at this property that is being operated by you on,
So I guess the first and second floor, which is a house of worship and accessory offices, correct?
That is correct.
All right.
So this new use would be the residential component for the homeless individuals that you do provide services to already, right?
That is correct.
All right.
So, Mr. Chairman, if it's all right, I'd like to ask Mr. Presman to stop his screen share so I can screen share so I don't have to make him scroll through.
and I'll do it myself
so I don't have to bother him.
Let's go right ahead.
Mr. Jenkins,
are you able to see on your screen
what would be your petition of appeal
to the zoning board in this matter?
That is correct.
Oh, you do see it?
Okay, very good.
So I'm going to read you the answer
to the first question
in which the answer,
and I'm not sure that you actually prepared this,
but bear with me
and let's see if we can get through this.
It says zoning causes a hardship as it gives us the inability to provide personal care for homeless and less fortunate in the community.
Restricts us from raising additional revenues from overnight services.
Did you see that?
See that there?
All right.
So the need for the residential service is based on your request to receive additional revenue from the state.
Isn't that right for the residential services?
No, it's not just, I'm sorry, funds from the state.
The reality is that people have already invested in this program.
We actually have $30,000 of contributions.
One is from actually Whippus Bank to actually provide beds for the overnight facility.
Two additional funders also provided funding to make sure that the floors could be resurfaced
and the windows could be put in.
And so that way, if we did not be able to carry this out, those funds would have to be returned.
In addition, the reality is that our funders have contributed to this organization with the anticipation that we would begin an overnight setting to be able to transition people and provide additional services because there is a continual barrier for people who are in homelessness that if they do not have a bed, often they cannot progress easier than if they were just out on the streets.
In addition, the reality is that our funders have.
So therefore, the goal is to be able to transition people. The reality is that our revenues in general are based upon us carrying out the vision that has been proposed to our community.
So you have been raising money in anticipation of receiving this variance?
Absolutely.
All right. So you've been telling people that you need money from them in order to provide residential services to homeless, and you don't even have the variance yet. Isn't that right?
So let me provide some additional clarity to you.
If you remember at the last zoning...
Well, I think my question is clear, Mr. Jenkins.
You asked a question, I'm going to answer it, okay?
I hope so.
All right.
One at a time.
One at a time.
At the last zoning hearing, not the one where we had the continuance, but the previous one,
there were several requests for us to make sure that there was a window in.
There was also concern about the appearance of lower level.
We refurbished the floors.
We spent $23,000 on refurbishing the floors.
We put in the window.
And then again, like I said, we did secure funding to be able to get the beds.
The reality is that we anticipated that the zoning was going to be approved based upon
the hardship.
And as I stated before, there's no difference between the hardship that we have of not being
able to use our lower level than your client has about using the lower first floor. Mr. Jenkins,
you're seeking a variance today, not my client. You understand that? The board has already issued
a variance for your client for the lower level based upon the same concern that you do not have
the ability to use a portion of the building just as we do not have ability to use a portion of our
building so we're seeking for a variance just like mr jenkins mr jenkins do you understand
that you're requesting a variance today and not my client you understand that perfectly understand
all right you didn't answer my question did you will you admit that you've been raising money
in the anticipation of receiving a variance today absolutely all right answer that mr demarco very
Very well, thank you. Mr. Jenkins, you will get additional funding from some either state,
municipality, if you receive the variance today, right? That is correct. It's designed to be able
to provide the funding needed to provide staffing, to provide the services, to provide bedding, to
provide laundry services, and all the things that are needed to be able to transition these folks.
We are not in the business of making money.
We're in the business of being able to transition people's lives.
But also the reality of the hardship is the fact that the environment has changed completely where the worship services that we traditionally have, we haven't been able to have since the beginning of March.
And with the COVID-19 virus continuing and with the expansion of the Delta version, the reality is we do not see any light at the end of the tunnel of when we're going to be able to have full-blown worship services in our facility.
Mr. Jenkins, you're a church, right?
We are, again, a mission church, as I stated.
All right. Nothing prevents you from practicing your religion within your building. Is that right?
Actually, in all respect, we have not been able to provide worship in our building since March of 2020, since the beginning of the coronavirus.
Also, the other reality is that most people do not want to come to worship anymore because of the fact that they are still in fear of the virus.
One out of five churches in the United States have closed down, and most churches are operating at less than 30%.
And how is it that you're going to protect these individuals who are going to be a homeless population?
How are you going to protect them from the coronavirus?
Are you going to be testing everybody for COVID-19?
Are you going to let me talk now? Did you ask a question?
No, I'm going to make sure I ask a question and you understand it.
Are you going to test everybody for COVID-19?
Okay, you ready for me to answer?
Okay, all right.
So, as I mentioned earlier, we do have on our staff a person that has a background in toxicology and infectious diseases.
And they screen, just like we screen our volunteers when they come in, they are tested for temperature.
They are screened with questions.
But also, we have been a vaccination site to make sure that our population is vaccinated.
Now, we cannot force people to be vaccinated.
I want to make that clear.
However, we have been persuasive and the population that we served actually somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of all homeless people have actually been back.
actually somewhere between 80 and 90 percent of all homeless people have actually been vaccinated.
And so we're very positive to see that we can make safety precautions and we have taken much
precautions to make sure that people remain safe. All right, but you're able to conduct worship
services at your property now in light of the removal of the mask requirement and those
removal of all the restrictions. You can conduct your house of worship as of today, correct?
There's a difference between can and having the ability to.
Ken says that government has given you permission to be able to have worship.
The ability to do it is the reality is that most people will not come back to worship right now because of the fact that they are still afraid of the coronavirus.
So but the reality is our worship service occurs on the first level.
What we're applying for today is a variance for the lower level, similar to what your client applied for, a variance on the lower level of their building.
And so you have to understand is that because of the coronavirus, we have.
Mr. Jenkins. Yeah, I'm sorry. Mr. Jenkins, are you telling this zoning board that the request for a single residential apartment on the first floor is similar to a group living use for homeless individuals?
Is that the argument you're making to this board?
No, that's not the argument.
Well, he keeps mentioning it.
Can I say something, Richard, please?
What he's saying is that the relief requested for variants, the hardship sought on the owner of the 3965 Lancaster Avenue,
was hardship based on the inability to use the commercial space by renting it to a third party.
So therefore, they ask for relief in the form of a variance to convert that to a residential unit, which is not permitted in that zoning district.
And your client opposed that variance.
It doesn't matter whether you supported it or opposed it.
It's the same type of relief.
You're saying that there's hardship.
That's the analogy, not the number of units, right, and not the services.
Your client's doing it for profit, which he's completely entitled to do.
My clients do service to the community. Mr. Jenkins, will you be performing criminal background checks on the individuals who you intake into this?
You had mentioned, let me rephrase it. You had mentioned that you don't you're not going to be servicing individuals that you that have a history of problems, so to speak.
Is that correct? So as I mentioned, we are going to be doing, we're outsourcing our intake services
to either Bethesda or Project Home. They have an intake process where they evaluate the person
that is coming in to see if they've caused any other problems in any other facilities throughout
the Philadelphia region. But in addition to that, part of the job placement program is that they do
have to answer a questionnaire to see if they've had a criminal background. Then we also have
expungement services where we're able to pull their records. So we're not going to answer your
question. You're not, you keep testifying. I wish you would just listen to the question and answer
it. Would you please? My question was, and you answered yes. My question was, you don't plan
on accepting individuals who have a history of criminal behavior, right? We're not going to
access to people that have violent backgrounds that attended other facilities and the intake
process is all right so let's force mr demarco mr demarco i apologize for interrupting mr pressman
mr demarco how much time do you think you're going to be needing i'm not much more your honor
i'm not much more uh mr chairman okay uh mr pressman do you guys have any more witnesses you
guys got a percent or we have uh two uh witnesses um from chosen 300 uh the project uh coordinator