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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 15, 2005

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 15, 2005

People mentioned

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Organizations mentioned

Mr. Torre

No additional cost. We actually saved a couple thousand dollars.

Councilman Clarke

The individuals that are picked up through Town Watch, are they City employees or are they --

Mr. Murphy

They were former members of the PAN staff that we were able to bring on board and begin to develop Town Watch Integrated Services. It's integrated services because it allows us to work full circle in addressing neighborhood situations, not just going to gain information because the police 768 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET are first responders so they would generally gain the type of information that they need. But what we need to do is begin to work with responsible adults to begin to address neighborhood issues that are their issue. So it becomes a basis of developing that neighborhood agenda, developing coalitions in neighborhoods where there are coalitions and strong leadership to try to impact on that leadership and get them more involved and spread the impact of our activity or broaden it. What we're doing at Integrated Services is to take all the staff members, those who were formerly Town Watch trainers and recruiters with those who are now intervention and develop a common job to where they all can begin to interface with each other and, therefore, give us a stronger impact on the neighborhood.

Councilman Clarke

What relationship do you have with the police? Do they have some interaction with your agency on an ongoing basis?

Mr. Murphy

Yes. We enact with the 769 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET police, one, through ever Thursday meetings that we attend. I interact with the Police Commissioner and many of the inspectors and the deputy commissioners on a regular basis. For example, they will establish a priority corner in the City. And one of the things that they request from Town Watch Integrated Services is that we begin to work in that neighborhood. So we take it and call it a priority neighborhood to develop community involvement and thereby assisting removing the priority corner by having adults willing to take on that corner responsibility; and, therefore, frees up officers from being there permanently on a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week basis. So our relationship is very good there.

Councilman Clarke

Is the traditional Town Watch activity still take place, you know the folks out there with the walkie-talkies?

Mr. Murphy

Yes, sir.

Councilman Clarke

I know it's little dicy now in terms of being out there as visible. 770 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Murphy

That type of activity continues to take place. We are continuously training people not just for that type of Town Watch activity, but also for safe corridor activities. We realize that violence in our City is not necessarily a phenomenon. There are times when things are outbreaks. That Faheem's case was an outbreak, not the norm. The situation at Strawberry Mansion was an outbreak, but not the norm. So what we want to do is begin to impact on our community to get them more involved. So yes, traditional Town Watch activity goes on, that type of training for safe corridors goes on, and then we have involvement in the School District so that we can begin to interface and learn more about what's going on in the neighborhoods through things that takes place inside the schools.

Councilman Clarke

Normally, at the least traditional process was that you actually have walkie-talkies. Do you still do that?

Mr. Murphy

We still do. We now 771 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET have repeaters throughout most of Philadelphia for our walkie-talkies for the groups that are patrolling Town Watch groups. We have over 710 trained and certified Town Watch groups in the City of Philadelphia and 57 trained and certified safe corridor groups in the City of Philadelphia mall of which that are patrolling use walkie-talkies. So in order to address that need, in West Philadelphia we have a 500 megahertz repeater system so that the groups can communicate with each other and communicate over larger distances. We did the same thing in South Philadelphia, the same thing in North Philadelphia at the hospital. I think it's at 17th at Girard. They allowed us to put a repeater there for groups in North Philadelphia. So we're beginning to create the type of communication system so that we'll also be backup system for communications in the City just for the City residents. We have repeaters in the Northeast as well. So, yes, we still do that.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Thank you. 772 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll be very brief. I want to try to make sure that there's some clarity on the record about these different projects. Is the Water Commissioner still here? I want to make sure that there's some clarity about the different projects. Commissioner, the project that you responded to Councilman Rizzo just a little while ago, I believe we have had some discussion about 32nd and Allegheny. I didn't recognize that project as it was possibly being described earlier as a Kelly Drive project. Can you give us a sense of when you go 32nd to Allegheny this 4,000 run, where does it take you to? COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: This run will actually go under a grave yard, I understand, and in a tunnel under Ridge 773 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Avenue, I believe, and then eventually to East River Drive and to our outfall which is on the Schuylkill. Unfortunately, because of the depth, it would have to effect Kelly Drive, but in other parts there shouldn't be a surface problem.

Councilman Nutter

And for these different projects, you'll give us the timelines as well as the disruption points and how long you think these different roadways might be disrupted? COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Correct. I did mention to Councilman Rizzo that we would be putting a fact sheet together for City Council. Now the question mark in all of this is, we plan to advertise this job very shortly, and I think we have to work with the winning contractor or contractors to determine better how they want to approach the job and if it's compatible with what we want.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Well, to the extent that it doesn't interfere in the process for any of these projects that are in the area that I cover, I'd be glad to 774 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET participate in those discussions, make sure we get maximum information out to the public, alternate routes and that kind of information.

Mr. Goldsmith

I would ask -- because I think you have your testimony coming up, the streets Commissioner, when they do appear that they come with a list with all their significant projects so you know what's on the drawing boards.

Councilman Nutter

That will be great. And I'll ask you about another project later. Thanks. Thanks Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

You're welcome. Are there any questions by my colleagues, other Members of Council? Any questions? (No response.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

Seeing none, we will recess for one hour. So at 2:30 we will come back to hear testimony from the Police Department. Thank you very much. 775 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you, Managing Director. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you in an hour. (Recess taken.)

Council President Verna

This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole. I would ask the Managing Director to please take the witness table. Councilman Rizzo, it is my understanding that you have a line of questioning.

Councilman Rizzo

Good afternoon.

Mr. Goldsmith

Good afternoon.

Councilman Rizzo

Mr. Managing Director, you were, I think, also interested in an issue that I have an interest in. It has to do with DROP. And it has to do with people that were laid off that were in the DROP. You told me you were going to look at that, and you told me you did. Could you give me a feel. Because there are some people out there that when they entered the DROP felt as though they were going to serve their time and leave the City employment. How many people 776 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET are affected by that?

Mr. Goldsmith

Seven people. We sent our answers over to the President of City Council. The number is seven.

Councilman Rizzo

Could you explain for the record the process? Even though they don't finish up their time, they still get what?

Mr. Goldsmith

They would get what they would be entitled to at that given point in time.

Councilman Rizzo

So seven people out of the total layoff, which was how many people?

Mr. Goldsmith

Initially, I there were think 200 on list. I think we whittled that down to about a hundred. So approximately a hundred, give or take a few.

Councilman Rizzo

And of the hundred, seven of those folks were in the DROP for some period of time or another that were laid off?

Mr. Goldsmith

I would say certainly of the 200, 7 were once that list 777 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET got whittled down to one a hundred. But I think the answer we said was seven, yes.

Councilman Rizzo

And you sent over?

Mr. Goldsmith

Yes. Whatever question I was asked I sent over here.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, we'll eventually catch up to those. The other issue is, as you may have read this week in the newspaper that during the budget hearings in Harrisburg, the State Police Commissioner was asked about the reimbursement or and the State Police patrolling the City roadway. And again, the State Police Commissioner said he had no 17 knowledge of that. And as you know, we were told that in the near future, which I'm honestly not in favor of, of the State Police patrolling. I would rather get the 6 million a year or close to it and have our people continue to do it because they do it well. But what do you believe as the Managing Director -- and if you want to suggest that I ask that question of someone else, I will. 778 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET But with all this bad information, our Budget Director says one thing, the Administration says one thing, the State says another. There's a lot of confusion. What do you know about this?

Mr. Goldsmith

I do agree with you on one thing, I'd rather have the money because I think to have the State Police come in and do it is just going through transition and so forth I think our men and women are quite capable of doing it and they have been doing it. I'm not sure. It's always hard to tell when budget discussions are going on what really is being said and so forth. And I think it's sometimes like making a hot cup of tea. You've got to let it brew a little bit and I think it's probably still brewing.

Councilman Rizzo

The problem is that we're going to be short close to $6 million in the budget is a concern, I'm sure.

Mr. Goldsmith

Yes. I can't imagine that at some point we won't get that 779 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET money. I know the Governor when he was Mayor advocated in every budget and he certainly understands the issues. I realize that they have their own budget issues in Harrisburg, but for us to be the lone jurisdiction to be doing what we're doing doesn't seem to me to be particularly appropriate. So I think in the end this will work out.

Councilman Rizzo

I don't know if the Streets Department is coming back. I'll get them, but I just wanted to ask one last question, take advantage of you being here. You know that the red light cameras have captured almost 2500 violators at the intersection of Grant and the Boulevard. And you're also aware that there is 120-day period where those violators will not get a fine, they will strictly get a warning. Since the Insurance Institute has pointed out that that is one of the most dangerous intersections in the United States, I understand that the Police Department has taken a proactive approach at that intersection and has some selective enforcement in process there. Could 780 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET you report on that?

Mr. Goldsmith

Yes. We have assigned police at that intersection. I think from February 28th to March 13th there were about 260 tickets written. I think 190 of those were for running the red light. I forget what they're called, hazardous tickets or something like that. And the other 90, I think, were tickets for people who didn't have registration or things like that. So there is a presence out there. I think clearly what that indicates, as I said in my testimony, is that we have a culture in this City where people simply do what they want to do. And people are going to end up getting killed; they already have. I hope that we will be able to step up enforcement. As soon as that law really takes effect and we can really do the full impact, I think we'll be better off and hopefully we'll get people's attention.

Councilman Rizzo

I know that you'll be leaving during this period of when the 120 days starts to wind down. Has the Police Department given you a commitment that 781 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET they'll continue until the actual process begins?

Mr. Goldsmith

I'm sure they will continue. This isn't simply my request. I think they're very much aware that there's an issue there, as elsewhere, both on the Boulevard and other areas of the City s. As I said, we're somewhat strained for manpower, but when you see those statistics, they're alarming. It's just amazing.

Councilman Rizzo

I think the last numbers I have now is now like 2900 violators, and that technology believe me is as foolproof as you want to be. And 2900 people have run red lights both north and south on the boulevard, east and west on Grant, and some people observing the intersection tell me at very high rates of speed. As you know, the worst intersection accident there is is getting broadsided. If you're not killed, you're paralyzed for the rest of your life. So I want to thank the Police Department for that, and the folks in the community appreciate it because they didn't realize how 782 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET bad it was until we started to activate the cameras. Thank you. Madam President, I'll wait for my next go-around for the Streets Department to talk some more about some issues in the Northwest.

Council President Verna

Well, if the Streets Department is here, perhaps we can address it now, because I only have one question I want to ask the Director. Do we have someone from the Streets Department? Councilman Rizzo, we have people here from the Streets Department.

Councilman Rizzo

Could they identify themselves for the record.

Council President Verna

Certainly.

Mr. Lutz

Good afternoon. My name is John Lutz. I'm the chief bridge engineer.

Mr. Wright

Good afternoon. I'm Bob Wright, transportation engineer manager.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. There's an issue that I'd appreciate 783 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET you just responding to, Mr. Lutz. And by the way, what a great job the Bridge Division did on the Germantown Avenue Bridge, the bridge that was out for so many years. Every time I travel over it, I realize how beautiful it is. I'm so happy we made it through the winter without any significant dings in it. It's a beautiful piece of work. But we recently had a failure of a small bridge that crosses over the Wissahickon. And I know that you've done some temporary repairs. As you know and we all know, that's a major roadway for people to come from the suburban community and also that live in the Northwest section and I know that we'll be addressing the Cresheim Valley Drive so I don't want to do that here. But could you tell us about your plan? Will the road have to be totally shut down? Will you make an effort to keep it one way? What exactly are you going to do? And is that project absolutely going to happen or is this just bad information? What exactly is the situation with that bridge on Bells Mill. 784 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET

Mr. Lutz

On Bells Mill, we effected emergency repairs to restore --

Councilman Rizzo

I can't hear you on that microphone. Could somebody tune that up a little?

Mr. Lutz

On Bells Mill Road Bridge, we have effected immediate emergency repairs about December or January 2004. And that restored automobile traffic to the Bells Mill. That will stay in effect until we're able to go with an arch strengthening process that we envision happening in a year or two.

Councilman Rizzo

That reminds me, and I'll take advantage of the Water Commissioner and also the Streets Commissioner. I believe there's a three-ton load limit on that bridge. That's what the signage says.

Mr. Lutz

It says no trucks.

Councilman Rizzo

But also there's still tonage signs there. And I know that there was an exception, which the hospital appreciates, for the emergency medic units. I 785 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET believe they've been allowed to traverse that bridge.

Mr. Lutz

That is correct.

Councilman Rizzo

But I've noticed that the sanitation vehicles that are coming from Domino that collect in the Chestnut Hill area are using Bells Mill Bridge. Also, I saw -- it looked like a big vacuum truck just the other morning crossing that bridge. So I hope we could put the word out to City vehicles that that means them. Would you agree that a loaded sanitation vehicle certainly is not a desirable vehicle for traveling over that troubled bridge? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Those occasional City vehicles are being allowed through.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, please identify yourself. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Clarena Tolson from the Streets Department. The occasional City vehicles are being allowed through.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, I've talked 786 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET to some people that live there. They say that they're more than occasional and they just can't understand how a fully loaded compactor could be allowed when other trucks are receiving tickets. I don't know if that's appropriate, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have some control of the City equipment and we know the frequency of when they're going to go through. And if we have a problem with them, we'll stop them.

Councilman Rizzo

It's your bridge, but it's not a very good public relations effort to say that City vehicles can go but other vehicles can't. So you're going to have to help me maybe talk to some of these people that are complaining about that. And I guess that is it. So there's no trucks allowed, but the load limit signs that say three ton are not relevant?

Mr. Lutz

A stone masonry bridge isn't an exact science. What we try to do is lengthen the life of the bridge by limiting the amount of frequent truck traffic going 787 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET across that particular stone arch bridge.

Councilman Rizzo

You through that frequent in there, okay. Thank you. That's it for me.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Councilman. Mr. Director, I just have one question. On of your testimony, you mention Recreation right-sizing and that you have had biweekly working groups to find ways to meet budget targets while avoiding the closure of facilities. Who was or who is on that working group?

Mr. Goldsmith

The Recreation Commissioner, a couple of his deputies, we have someone from Budget, someone from Capital Projects, several people from the Managing Director's Office on that Committee.

Council President Verna

Can you tell us what the target budget of the Recreation Department is and how it was arrived?

Mr. Goldsmith

It's whatever was 788 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET passed last year from City Council. I think while we went in a $4 million reduction, I think we came out with a $1 million reduction. So it's meeting that and also preparing for what we have to do in '06.

Council President Verna

What is the current ratio of program staff to program participants and how does that compare to national standards?

Mr. Goldsmith

I do not know. I'll have to get you that answer.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from Members of the Committee? (No response.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, I thank you. Thank you very much for your patience. Is the Police Commissioner here? Good afternoon and welcome. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Council President.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, we do have copies of your 789 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET testimony, so if you would like to summarize, we will give a copy of your testimony to the stenographer and it will be transcribed in full, whichever you prefer doing. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think I'd better read it. It's not that long. I can basically summarize if everybody has a copy of it.

Council President Verna

Yes, we all have a copy. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: You can see in the summary, the first thing, Commissioner Sylvester Johnson, Philadelphia Police Department. And I'm up here with Giorgio-Fox who is our First Deputy Commissioner and Commissioner Gaittens who is on my right. I'm also here with Commissioner Charles Brennan and Deputy Commissioner Charlotte Council. I think basically what our testimony is going to share is that there are new initiatives that we've done. And I'm just going to read the budget and strength allotment basically. For the Fiscal Year General Fund 790 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET request will provide for 6,424 sworn personnel, including 371 recruits, 860 civilians, 1,037 school crossing guards. With this addition of 150 sworn officers funded through the Aviation budget, the total sworn strength of the Police Department in Fiscal Year '06 will be 6,575. The decrease in personnel was necessitated by the City's stringent economic constraints, 35 civilians were laid off earlier this year, and all police recruit classes were cancelled. However, the Police Department has worked hard to ensure the reduction in personnel with no 15 inference with our ability to meet our mission. Since Fiscal Year 2003, redeployment strategies have enabled the department to reduce senior command positions, the number of personnel and off-street assignments. These actions result in a new organizational structure which can operate effectively while meeting budgeted and personnel level. The new structure will not severely impact upon our street manpower level. The budget provides no 25 additional funds for equipment or supplies. 791 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET It remains constant or less than the budgeted amounts in Fiscal Year 2005. There's a number of initiatives that we've put in place. One of the questions was asked about Operation Safe Streets. Operation Safe Streets was an initiative we started in May 2002. And it was really to go after open-air drug corners. I think the fact that we've eliminated most of open-air drug corners in the last couple of years because as we've changed the drug dealers changed. But we come up with new initiatives. We now have what we call -- and Deputy Commissioner Fox put this in place -- priority corners. And they are corners where a person has been shot. There's a police officer put on a corner for anywhere from to hours. But in addition to that, 19 we contact the License and Inspection and 20 other people to go out there in the different 21 neighborhoods. We bring additional personnel 22 into the neighborhood. We try to do 23 everything, we send a message that we believe 24 in the good quality of life. You know, even with the Operation 792 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Safe Schools, that was an initiative we put in place to make sure that we're being a lot more proactive. I know in the last week and a half we've had numerous amount of shootings here in the City of Philadelphia. As a matter of fact, in days we had 43 shootings and 8 homicides. I believe it might be 21 homicides 9 at this point. It is a concern of ours, a 10 real concern of ours. And we're doing 11 everything we can to change that. 12 One of the things, at least that we 13 believe in, I think Members of City Council 14 also agreed with us, is that we need some gun 15 legislation. The facts are that Philadelphia 16 has the most lenient gun laws in the entire 17 country. Compared to New York and New Jersey 18 where you just can't get a gun, in 19 Philadelphia, not only can you buy a gun, but unless you have a criminal record or a record of mental illness, you can not only get the gun but you can also carry that gun. Eighty percent of our homicides here in the City of Philadelphia is by handguns. I think we have to do that. I just used the example a little 793 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET while ago, of a person who buys a car.

Council President Verna

If a person buys a car and has a car and that car is stolen, anything happens with that car and it's not reported stolen, then the owner is responsible for it. If the car is reported stolen to the police, the owner is not responsible for it. You can have a person here in the Philadelphia can buy guns and 10 those 10 guns can be used in 10 different incidents, and we've traced back to the person who bought that gun, and that person has absolutely no responsibility or accountability at all for that gun. I think we have to put some legislation to make sure that that law changes. There is a fear of incidents we really have to look into. I met with the Mayor earlier today, along with our command staff. And what we're basically going to do is come up with some new ideas and bring down to the Mayor on Monday and discuss these things. Right now, I think the Managing Director has already pointed out, the Police Department is at its lowest strength that 794 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET we've been in 40 years. We've done a lot of things and put a lot of things in place by reducing the command level so we can keep the same level of police officers on the street which are 911 responders. I think we will continue to do that. But at the time, we're concerned about what's happening in our streets. We're doing different things with the community to make sure that we do other things that are beneficial to the citizens of Philadelphia. I constantly say that law enforcement by itself will never be able to change the quality of life, that has to be a holistic type of approach that everyone has to get involved. And I say it today. I think the community, the business people, the politicians, the clergy, everyone has to get involved in this to make sure that we change here in the City of Philadelphia. As far as drugs is concerned, and drugs was one of our major issues in the last four or five years and we're doing everything we can to go after the drug problem that we 795 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET have here in the City of Philadelphia. But again, it's not statistics, it's about quality of life. And I say thanks to the hard work of the police officers we have on the street and going out there every day risking their lives that we in the law enforcement or we in the administrative staff is constantly day by day doing things that are totally different and totally in the areas that we make sure there's good quality of life. What I've basically done is just not talk about all our accomplishments. One of the things I heard mentioned earlier today was our overtime. 1 million in court overtime.

Council President Verna

But isn't that for court-related overtime. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

That's something we talked about for years COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Overall overtime we're down $3,611,383, and that's just up to today's date. 796 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET

Council President Verna

But isn't regular overtime increasing by percent for 4 uniformed personnel? That would come to 5 approximate $7,901,000. I believe that's on 6 Section 36 in the detail budget, and it's 9. 8 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I apologize. 9 I don't have a . 10

Council President Verna

Perhaps a 11 member of your staff or somebody from Finance 12 has it, Section 36, . 13

Mr. Gaittens

Where are you 14 looking, Councilwoman? 15

Council President Verna

Uniform 16 forces, General Fund. It's an increase, 17 Commissioner, of $7,901,000. 18

Mr. Gaittens

That's the projection 19 for the next year.

Council President Verna

Well, that's what we're talking about, the budget. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I apologize for that. I think the reason that we're projecting that, and we're still trying to reduce it, it's just a projection. Our 797 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET manpower is down and our manpower is down approximate or 500 police officers than we 4 had this time last year. Right now, we're below and have reduced the overtime. We have every intention on doing in the next year. So we're going to do everything we can to make sure that the projections do not be a fact.

Mr. Gaittens

The projections of the staffing level will be another decrease of 120 uniform officers. And as our manpower level goes down, for certain details, the overtime will go up.

Council President Verna

Identify yourself.

Mr. Gaittens

I'm sorry. I'm Deputy Commissioner Jack Gaittens, Administration and Training.

Council President Verna

I don't want to dispute this, but you could pay 124 new officers, and it would not come to this figure.

Mr. Gaittens

That is correct. That's just a projection. What I can tell you, based on today's figures, as of today's 798 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET date for this fiscal year, our uniformed overtime is down $3.6 million. And we are doing everything we can to keep that number low.

Council President Verna

Now, is that for court-related overtime.

Mr. Gaittens

That's total overtime for uniformed forces is 3.6 million. Court-related overtime for the first eight months is 2.999 million.

Council President Verna

It was just being pointed out to me. This year you're spending $41,455,000 in overtime.

Mr. Gaittens

The figure that I'm showing --

Council President Verna

Are you on ?

Mr. Gaittens

Under the General Fund?

Council President Verna

Estimated obligations.

Mr. Gaittens

I'm being told by my fiscal officer here, Mr. Tom DeWaele, that is the actual overtime minus abatements. We get 799 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET certain amounts of overtime that we get refunded through the services hiring program. We also get some grants to do overtimes, different initiatives that we do where we get reimbursement for.

Council President Verna

So then the overtime would be more than $41 million, is that what you're saying?

Mr. Gaittens

That's correct.

Council President Verna

I don't quite understand. You keep saying $3 million. Where is the other $38 million being spent?

Mr. Gaittens

We have five more months to go in the year. I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.

Council President Verna

And I don't understand what you're talking about because according to your schedule, not anybody else's, the overtime, the estimated obligation for regular overtime is $41,455,000.

Mr. Gaittens

That is correct.

Council President Verna

Okay. 800 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Let's go from there.

Mr. Gaittens

I'm going to turn this over to Tome DeWaele.

Council President Verna

That would be great.

Mr. Dewaele

Good morning Councilwoman.

Council President Verna

Hi.

Mr. Dewaele

My name is Tom DeWaele. I'm the fiscal officer.

Council President Verna

Maybe you can explain this a little mor clearly, please.

Mr. Dewaele

Our actual overtime, we're expecting to spend $54 million, less abatements and grants that we are getting from the state and federal government. It brings it down to $41 million.

Council President Verna

Now, is there a breakdown between court-related and regular overtime?

Council President Verna

There's not a breakdown?

Mr. Dewaele

Not in our budget, not 801 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET on , no. 3

Council President Verna

Well, can you give us a breakdown?

Mr. Dewaele

We can bring you a breakdown, yes.

Council President Verna

Why is it increasing so much in '06.

Mr. Dewaele

Well, we projected the increase in '06, but it's possible that we could save money and not spend that amount. Plus, there's a 3 percent wage increase.

Council President Verna

That's not the way they normally budget, but we'll take that as your answer. You don't normally budget like that. Commissioner, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you got on the overtime and I interrupted you. If you want to proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm fine, Councilwoman. You have a copy of our testimony, then --

Council President Verna

And it will be given to the stenographer so it will 802 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET be transcribed in full. Commissioner, you mention in your testimony that the Police Department laid off 35 civilians. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Can you give us a breakdown by the unit as to what the 35 positions were? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Yes.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney for a point of information.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. I was have trouble following the questioning about the overtime. Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. It seems that after the end of the conversation, there's $16 million in budgeted overtime that we don't know if we're going to spend or not; is that fair?

Council President Verna

It's a projection. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: That's correct.

Councilman Kenney

It seems like an 803 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET awful lot of money to have in abeyance just in case you need to spend it, especially if I look at what we're doing at the Fire Department. That's $16 million or a portion of it could perhaps restore some or all of those cuts. While I understand unanticipated need, it seems that $16 million maybe a bit much for an unanticipated need. Can you understand why -- and I'm not being critical of you. What I'm curious about is that we would budget $16 million additional and not have any plan how we're going to spend it when other departments we're cutting services and companies and other things. It just seems kind of strange. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think one of the problems we have is we have to really plan for the unexpected. Just like what happened to us in the last week, week and a half. And also I believe that the fact we have no classes scheduled and the fact that we're going into summer programs. There's a lot of things that we have absolutely no 25 control of that we're going to have to deal 804 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET with.

Councilman Kenney

I don't discount or say that that's not the case, but how did we arrive at a number 16? Have we ever kind of front-loaded the overtime in past budgets? Wouldn't we just go back and get a transfer ordinance somewhere if you ran out of money? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'm not really sure.

Councilman Kenney

Maybe some from -- I don't know where you guys can answer that question. Perhaps the Budget Office or Finance. Can we have someone from Budget or Finance? These people are law enforcement people for the most part. I guess the question is have we ever done this before? I don't remember ever seeing this done this way before, as Council President said.

Ms. Reed

I'm Diane Reed, Budget Director. I actually am too new to be able to tell you what happened in the past, so I will find that out for you and we can get back to you and Council President with that 805 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET information.

Councilman Kenney

And perhaps maybe there's some way to utilize some of that money to do some things that we're eliminating, and if we have to go back to transfer money later on, we can always do a transfer ordinance process.

Ms. Reed

Well, it's worthy thing about, but we have taken approximately 324 positions out of the Police Department. We have a homicide wave right now. This is the beginning of the year. The summer is yet to come, and we really rather be safe than sorry in terms of a funding base for police.

Councilman Kenney

I guess if I was a firefighter, I'd like to say the same thing that I'd like to have a couple extra companies coming into a burning dwelling while I'm there alone. And I'm not saying that one is more important than the other, but it just seems that -- is there a formula? How did we come to the place of $16 million extra or unanticipated? Was there a formula that we followed to come up with $16 million that we 806 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET think we might spend?

Mr. Dewaele

Well, we usually take an average for overtime per pay. Our average overtime this year has been the best ever. It's been going down and going down.

Councilman Kenney

We're running out of money. That's a good reason for overtime to be down. We're running out of money in the government.

Mr. Dewaele

But it looks like right now we're probably going to have extra money for next year because we're controlling our overtime so well.

Councilman Kenney

Is there a way we can utilize that money to do something with our Fire Department or Rec Department or whatever? It just seems that it would be a shame to have that sitting there and not utilized while other departments are suffering. If you need it, you need it. And if you spend it, you spend it. We're not going to argue with your decisions on deployment, spending in overtime. But if you 807 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET think we're not going to use it, it certainly would be nice to have it back for another department. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think, Councilman, we can look into that and we're amenable to doing things that's best for the City, not just for the Police Department.

Councilman Kenney

I know you do. I have no complaints with you because I know this a process that is involved with Budget and Finance and it's not just the Police Department making decisions. So I appreciate your cooperation and the effort. Thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam President. I just want to make sure that I heard this correctly. I'm asking this question of the Budget Director. You've budgeted money in the Police Department for 808 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET contingencies, and we're laying people off?

Ms. Reed

The amount budgeted for overtime is a request from the Police Department, which the Budget Office agreed to based on the arguments that were made to us.

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. I don't know if the Councilman could hear you. I doubt that the stenographer could hear you. I know I couldn't hear you at all. Would you mind -- is that my microphone on? Can you speak into the microphone, please.

Ms. Reed

I'll get right on top of it.

Councilman Rizzo

That's good.

Ms. Reed

What I said was that the amount for overtime in the Police Department was request from the department which the Budget Office agreed to based on the arguments that were made to us.

Councilman Rizzo

So the answer to the question is you budgeted 16 million?

Ms. Reed

We budgeted in the General Fund a difference of 7.9.

Councilman Rizzo

And we're laying 809 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET people off, right?

Ms. Reed

We aren't laying any police officers off. We did not go forward with any new recruiting classes in '05.

Councilman Rizzo

But we've laid civilians off. COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Well, I think one of the problems -- maybe I can clear this up, as best I can, Councilman. Our overtime just didn't go down just to be going down. Our overtime came down because a lot of initiatives that we had put in place. We didn't know whether these initiatives were going to work or not work. We set up basically a task force with the District Attorney's Office, with other people, with the court overtime. The Deputy Commissioners can only call their command staff on a continued basis that are COMSTAT talk about overtime. Sp we're reducing overtime because of the initiatives that we put in place to make sure overtime is being reduced. Now, those things can possibly change. If we go by past years, they didn't change. We went after overtime 810 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET for a long period of time and there was no 3 change. But I think the fact that the new initiatives that we have in place, the new things that we were doing, the things that we are doing in conjunction with other people, knowing that there's a fiscal responsibility that we have, and I think this was probably established based on what our four or five years were. So, again, as arrests go up and other things go up, then our overtime is basically going to go up. But we will keep those initiatives in place. This was just a projection. And we went to the Budget people with the idea based on our past what we felt as though would be the amount of overtime that we would need based on our past, not knowing whether these initiatives would work or not work.

Councilman Rizzo

But you can understand the situation we're in, Commissioner. And no disrespect to you're planning ahead, thinking maybe the worst scenario possible on what it would cost you. But here we are, like Councilman Kenney said, 811 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET we're talking about closing firehouses, doing all these things, and then we hear we've got money put aside that most managers -- and I hate to say this. You'll figure a way how to spend that, whether you need it or not, in my opinion. And I don't mean you, I mean the Police Department. I don't think that we're going to hear anybody returning anything that they don't spend. I would kind of bet that. But again, it seems like a stretch for us to sit here and hear about contingencies when you just said something troubles me, that we're going to be at the lowest -- and I want to ask the Deputy Commissioner that runs the radio room to talk a little bit about response times because of some of the things I'm hearing.

Council President Verna

Councilman, when it's your turn, we'll be happy to.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm sorry. I forgot it was a point of information. But I just wanted to understand, and you answered the question. 812 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: Let me ask the Council President's question earlier about who we laid off. Actually, we laid off 5 people. 6

Council President Verna

I thought 7 it was 35 civilians. 8 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: These are 9 civilians. 10

Council President Verna

You said 11 there were 21 civilians. I thought your 12 testimony indicated 35 civilians. 13 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: We actually 14 laid off 21. We laid off one store worker, 15 one automobile driver, one administrative 16 support specialist, eight police communication 17 dispatcher trainees and 10 clerk typist 1's. 18

Council President Verna

So I 19 assume now that the police officer has to do 20 the work of the clerk typist? 21 COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: No, ma'am.

Council President Verna

We have enough clerk typists that -- COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I think what we basically did is looked around and found 813 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET out -- we didn't want to replace police officers with civilians. These are the positions that we felt as though, based on our budget restraints, that we can eliminate without replacing them with anyone else, and that's what we did. All these positions that were eliminated were not replaced by uniform police officers.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, what has the impact on the 911 dispatch system as a result of the reductions been? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'll let Deputy Commissioner Brennan answer that.

Council President Verna

And how many dispatch officers were -- we talk about the civilians that were laid off. How many of them were in the dispatch room?

Mr. Brennan

My name is Charles Brennan, I'm a Deputy Commissioner. The radio room comes under me. Presently we have 259 dispatchers as of today. Between what was laid and our attrition rate -- our attrition rate is about 814 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET three a month. Our top number used to be 277, and we are now 259. I believe that we laid off -- I think the Commissioner said eight.

Council President Verna

So before the end of the year, how many dispatch officers do you think we'll have?

Mr. Brennan

What we'll do, Councilwoman, as we get low, we put classes in. So depending on what I'm permitted to hire, we'll drop down so many -- we usually 10 or and then we'll put a class of 15 in. It 13 takes us eight weeks to get a class through. 14

Council President Verna

So when 15 did you anticipate putting in another class?

Mr. Brennan

As soon as I can find out from Commissioner Gaittens when I can hire. It depends upon -- we have a staffing level of civilians, and I believe it's 860. And those numbers are juggled. So, for example, we might lose some maintenance people, we might lose some programers, we might lose some dispatchers. When I get to a certain level, what I would like to do is put the classes in when we are 10 below our number 815 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET so I can -- I'll put the classes in more frequently.

Council President Verna

You know, this is such a safety issue. How many 911 dispatchers do we need to truly assure that the calls will be handled in a very expeditious manner? What is the minimum that you think would really be safe? COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: In my opinion, talking to the Deputy Commissioner, talking to other people, I think the numbers we have. Before we did these numbers, we sat down and went over every single thing. The numbers that were given to me are the numbers we feel as though are safe. One of the things we have to put in place right now is -- dispatchers, at least in my opinion from what was told to me, probably take sick time than other any place in the entire Police Department. I think the numbers that we have right now are the numbers that would give us at a safe level. We have put something in place to try to control the sick time, to try to control the people taking off. 816 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET And I think, and Deputy Commissioner Brennan can verify this, is that the dispatchers use more sick time take off more than any unit in the entire Police Department. Is that correct.

Mr. Brennan

Their sick time is very high.

Council President Verna

For the most part, how many years of service have they had.

Mr. Brennan

I'm sorry, Councilwoman, there's 259.

Council President Verna

Just give me a ballpark figure.

Mr. Brennan

It ranges really conservatively. We've had people in the room 18 over 20 years. And then we have, of course, we hire a lot of new ones. The problem is, as the Commissioner alluded to, is the sick abuse sort of coupled with a high attrition rate, which is three per month. So even when we put a class in, while the class is being trained, we'll lose six people. And that has been pretty constant, that three per month has been 817 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET pretty constant.

Council President Verna

I'm sorry, did you indicate how many are in a class?

Mr. Brennan

We try to hire about 15. Maybe out of 15, we might graduate 12. And then in the first couple months, we'll get rid of another two or three. So out of a class of 15, we might end up with 9 or 10. And, of course, two months later, six are gone.

Council President Verna

Two months later you're back to where you were.

Mr. Brennan

Yes, I heard what you said and you're right, we're back to where we were. That's correct.

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information.

Council President Verna

Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, are you aware that there's somewhere in the contract a provision that could really affect your staffing? I believe that somewhere in the last contract there was a provision that 818 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET would allow employees that work in the radio room to go off sick and collect a percentage of their pay. Have you heard or are you aware of this at all?

Mr. Brennan

Councilman, I read that provision in the new DC 33 contract. As a matter of fact, I read it three times.

Councilman Rizzo

Could you explain to the body what I'm talking about here?

Mr. Brennan

Well, first I have to tell you that I think I must be reading it wrong, because I don't believe -- there must be something that I'm misunderstanding about what it says. From my understanding, it indicates that a civilian DC 33 worker can somehow transition to a program where they can be off, I believe, up six months a year and get 65 percent of their pay, I believe.

Councilman Rizzo

That's what I read.

Mr. Brennan

There's something in there that I'm missing. I don't believe that that to be as it is. 819 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET

Councilman Rizzo

That could be devastating to you.

Mr. Brennan

It's certainly not going to be good.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, I think, Madam President --

Council President Verna

I'm sorry. Is that long-term disability? What is that? This is the first I'm hearing it.

Mr. Brennan

Well, one of the problems, Councilwoman, is when someone was a sick abuser, pretty much when they ran out of sick time, we could get rid of them. When FMLA kicked in, that really killed us. It allows someone to take an extra 12 weeks a year off over and above the 20-some sick days that they get a year. That is killing us now. So the DC 33 contract, it appears that people can transition to six months a year off at 60-some percent of their pay if they run out of sick time. And I told the Councilman, I think I'm reading it wrong, but I don't know.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm pleased that you know about this, because it was brought to 820 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET me by a person that works there that indicated to me that they plan to take advantage of this provision that's in the contract because they're not feeling well and they're going to go to 65 percent of their salary for -- is it six or eight months?

Mr. Brennan

I think it's six months.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, we should really get an interpretation so you know what you could potentially face with that provision of a contract.

Council President Verna

I'm told that Mr. Grab is in the audience. Perhaps he could shed some light on this issue. This is the first I'm hearing it. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Grab

Good afternoon. My name is Bill Grab, that's G-R-A-B. I'm the Director of Labor Relations. The new contract with civilian employees has a new clause on sick leave. 821 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET Currently, employees hired before 1992 earn days a year of sick leave. They can accumulate up to 200 days of sick leave, and that's at full pay. Employees hired after 1992 earn days of sick leave a year and can 7 accumulate up to the 200 days a year. 8 The new contract provides that the 9 City will go out and purchase what's called 10 short-term disability insurance for employees. 11 Initially, employees will earn 12 days a year 12 instead of 20 days or the 15 days, so there's 13 a reduction there. Employees will only be 14 able to accumulate up to 90 days, so there's a 15 reduction there. And employees will have to be qualified to get short-term disability pay after a 30-day window in the beginning.

Council President Verna

Does the 19 Family Leave Act apply? 20

Mr. Grab

Family medical will always be there, yes. Family medical leave can always be paid or unpaid leave.

Councilman Rizzo

Madam President --

Council President Verna

Isn't it 822 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET normally unpaid?

Mr. Grab

In the City, if I get sick today and be out for three months and be on paid status because I have the accumulated sick leave, mine would be in pay status. If I did not have accumulated sick leave, it would be in unpaid status.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm not sure that you -- you probably answered the question and it went right over my head here. You heard the question I asked of Deputy Commissioner Brennan. Could you just restate the change in the contract which allows someone to take off for six months? Let's just talk about police radio room right now. The employees that work there could do what for how long?

Mr. Grab

An employee who has a short-term disability, if approved, if that disability is a covered disability, will be able to have up to six months to recuperate, yes.

Councilman Rizzo

And how much money?

Mr. Grab

At two-thirds salary. 823 03/15/05 - FY '06 OPERATING BUDGET This is a typical program that you would find in private industry. This is a private industry program.

Councilman Rizzo

This isn't private industry.

Mr. Grab

I know. Now, you can get up to get up to 200 days at full pay on your sick leave.