civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - July 26, 2023

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jul 26, 20235h 26m

to a degree that there is parking allowed on Greenog Street I'm not saying it's a big car

Similar wording

it's probably a mini cooper but we have 13 feet and eight and one half inches that we extended

Similar wording

the street out even more so you have two parking spots here not that it's allowed but if they

Similar wording

really want to park on that side of green hog here's the third parking spot and then yes we're

Similar wording

taking then a public space away but that would be the fourth spot right so we you know we don't

Similar wording

believe we're creating a spot here but if the community thinks parking is allowed here's another

Similar wording

spot that we created and this spot doesn't even exist until we've paid until we pave and develop

Similar wording

the street so there's four parking spots we created with one single family home which i

Similar wording

think is a really great net positive under the circumstances

Similar wording

and then there's just elevations here well i think it'll be better to just go through the floor plans

Similar wording

but i think this is actually a really good uh rendering right here in elevation so this is the

Similar wording

front of our property right this is the little driveway we created you see here there's a there's

Similar wording

there's living space down here and it's really not down here but it's just it's a very unique

Similar wording

property um we created a situation where we because we put a grate here a metal grate there's light in

Similar wording

there that's created. That's why we created the setback, is to create additional living space

Similar wording

under the circumstances. And then you'll see the deck up here. You'll see a deck on the side. You'll

Similar wording

see a deck back there. But it starts as basically a two-story structure in the front and goes always

Similar wording

a four-story structure. We're not taking anyone's light in there away. We're just trying to be

Similar wording

nestled in a forestry part of Manioc. And then these are the floor plans. I'm actually going

Similar wording

to start at three, but it's really one. So third floor, you have this study area, right? It's 10

Similar wording

and a half feet by 16 and a half feet. They considered that not a livable area. The city

Similar wording

planning commission disagrees with that when we met with them. There are bedrooms that I have

Similar wording

presented in the past that are not that large. This area is rather large. How we see it, especially

Similar wording

in this post-pandemic era, is that we would see maybe a sitting area, a desk there. Someone's

Similar wording

going to do something to get away from, whether it's the kids or life in general. You have the

Similar wording

garage here. You have a couple of coat closets. You have a bedroom in the rear. You have a full

Similar wording

bath. Now, you can go up or down. If you go up, technically, this is the fourth floor. It's an

Similar wording

an open floor plan of a kitchen, dining room, and a livery room. Now, if you go down,

Similar wording

we'll go backwards. That's where the living areas are. And when we're going down, this is, oops,

Similar wording

when we go down, I'm not going down like where you would say I'm in a basement area.

Similar wording

This is, again, because of the slope, it's all above ground, right? So you have two bedrooms,

Similar wording

two bathrooms and then you go into the lowest level which is still above ground

Similar wording

where you would have a little flex bedroom maybe you have a media room you have a separate deck

Similar wording

that's above ground and where it's really private and serene

Similar wording

and then you have a roof deck as well now again we were supposed to have our meeting

Similar wording

on July 17th at 7 p.m.

Similar wording

We got a call last minute that day

Similar wording

stating, oh, I thought it was supposed to be

Similar wording

on a Tuesday rather than a Monday.

Similar wording

So we, you know,

Similar wording

because we want to appear in front of this EBA,

Similar wording

we're like, fine, we'll do it on a Tuesday.

Similar wording

I don't know if that decreased

Similar wording

what would have been the people showing up.

Similar wording

This Maniunk neighborhood council

Similar wording

is very unique in that you have to email the group

Similar wording

You have to email the group and then they'll give you the information about like the Zoom

Similar wording

and then they'll give you the information.

Similar wording

information for the virtual meeting.

Similar wording

So I'm sure that they contacted anyone who said, I wanted to show up on Monday and told

Similar wording

them Tuesday.

Similar wording

I just know how people's schedules conflict there.

Similar wording

But again, at the meeting that we had a community meeting, there were no affected properties

Similar wording

who voted for it or against it.

Similar wording

72 properties were within the affected area.

Similar wording

these are the list of the properties a lot of them i believe i i haven't cross-referenced i

Similar wording

don't want to state it i have to take a look at the petition how many people were within the

Similar wording

affected area but there are at least four properties on our block on green og who are

Similar wording

in support of our project uh proof of mailing our application for appeal that we filed on behalf of

Similar wording

251 Greenog STLLC, project information form and notice refusal, deeds of property showing 251

Similar wording

Greenog STLLC is the owner, and then our tax clearance. One other thing, during the meeting,

Similar wording

and I don't think this was the general feel from the group, but during the meeting, someone even

Similar wording

said, if it's on the steep slope, it shouldn't be developed. And I don't even think that the

Similar wording

representatives from the coordinating rco would say that but that was a general feel and temperature

Similar wording

of the uh room i want to do one more thing i just want to show the video of uh of you know showing

Similar wording

that there is no parking down the street on green auburn per side so i'm just going to share my

Similar wording

screen one more time can everyone see my screen yeah so this is the beginning it's going to slowly

Similar wording

to go down the street. You can see all this off-street parking. And we're on the left-hand

Similar wording

side, driving down Greenhaw. But the left-hand side is the side that our house would be.

Similar wording

Again, more off-street parking. Has a more suburban feel, this part of Manhill.

Similar wording

But you can see the right side. There's cars parked. If any cars were parked on the left-hand

Similar wording

side you couldn't drive down the street this would not be a functional street

Similar wording

we get more off street parking and you see the two cars at the end those are the two cars that

Similar wording

are you know again the green ox stops there we would extend it out those two cars would be able

Similar wording

to park legally if we did so. I'm going to stop sharing my screen. I would also state I would

Similar wording

also move both my exhibits as well as that video into evidence. Yes, thank you. Hi, Mr. Hardiman,

Similar wording

can you virtually raise your hands? They've been allowed to speak. Hi, sir. Could you state your

Similar wording

name please to spell for the court stenographer? Darren Hardiman. My name is D-A-R-E-N, last name

Similar wording

H-A-R-D-I-M-O-N. Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing

Similar wording

but the truth? I do. Proceed, counsel. Yeah, Mr. Hardiman, you heard everything I had to state

Similar wording

today about your zoning matter, correct? Yes. And everything I stated was true and correct, right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And do you adopt it as your own testimony?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Besides my presentation, would you like to add anything so the board can hear your position regarding this zoning request?

Similar wording

Well, yeah, one thing I wanted to go back on, Alan, for the steep slope disturbance that you looked at on the plan.

Similar wording

If you could share your screen, there was one thing that you kind of misstated.

Similar wording

Oops, wrong one.

Similar wording

hold on let me get let me get my so if you can go back to the zoning plan

Similar wording

yes there so if you could zoom in on that a little bit

Similar wording

so with regard to the going over to 1400 square foot of earth disturbance when you when you did

Similar wording

the calculation earlier you did building coverage and site disturbance so that was incorrect our

Similar wording

site disturbance is only 229 square feet. The hardship comes in because we have to build this

Similar wording

street. If we did not have to build the street, we wouldn't be disturbing the additional 1231

Similar wording

square footage, which takes us over the 1400. Okay, gotcha. So the 239 is including the streets.

Similar wording

Okay, gotcha. So the 229 is including the streets portion aspect.

Similar wording

Yeah, so 1231 is all of the owner developed cartway and footway. And then the 229, that includes the piece that we're going to be site disturbing. Like our original site is going to disturb that because we're on pillars. So because we're on pillars, we're not going to disturb as much of the site.

Similar wording

Other than that, I think that everything you said was true.

Similar wording

I just wanted to get back to that because our site disturbance, the hardship comes in for us is when we have to build that street.

Similar wording

Had the city built the street or had that street been developed by the owner, the developer of Renault Street prior across to the other side, we wouldn't have that steep slope issue at all.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Questions from the board?

Similar wording

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, I'm on the call.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you, Jim.

Similar wording

Questions or comments from the virtual audience?

Similar wording

Yes, Mr. Chair, I have Kevin Morris with their hand raised.

Similar wording

I have allowed them to speak.

Similar wording

Hi, sir.

Similar wording

Could you state your name, please?

Similar wording

Kevin Morris, K-E-V-I-N-M-O-R-R.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

And you're from the Manioc Neighborhood Council?

Similar wording

I'm not from the council.

Similar wording

I'm a resident of Wild Street, around the block from the property.

Similar wording

Proceed, sir.

Similar wording

I guess I don't have a position on the creation of the off-street parking, just factually.

Similar wording

There are three parking spaces up in that area now, and neither the PPA nor the PPD consider that illegal.

Similar wording

um the no parking sign that was shown in the video you can see the arrow actually points to

Similar wording

the north away from this property um that's just a factual matter there um but i am also an objection

Similar wording

to the development on the steep slope uh during the presentation i noticed you know he asked the

Similar wording

question if the building sticks out um walking around the neighborhood and the building up on

Similar wording

piers would stick out to me um you know obviously i've lived in the neighborhood 15 years so it's

Similar wording

not really uh development that i've seen around here and i think the last comment i was saying

Similar wording

the only issue is because the street was never built and i think that street was never built

Similar wording

out because of the slopes in the area that's why a lot of these paper streets exist around here

Similar wording

um yeah that's all i have to that that's speculation i see lips moving in but i don't

Similar wording

say it again oh i'm sorry uh i i object to some of the some of the testimony as

Similar wording

i understand that i i agree with you mr morris anything else

Similar wording

is there anyone else in the virtual audience

Similar wording

i'm mr john hunter with the hand raised i've allowed them to speak

Similar wording

Yep. Hi, state your name, please, and spell for the court stenographer.

Similar wording

Sir?

Similar wording

Please unmute and wait to be sworn in.

Similar wording

Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court stenographer?

Similar wording

Yes, it's John Hunter, H-U-N-T-E-R.

Similar wording

Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Similar wording

I do.

Similar wording

Are you a neighbor?

Similar wording

I am the zoning chair for Manningham neighborhood council.

Similar wording

Okay, proceed, Mr. Hunter.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Narkinson has gone through our letter in quite a lot of detail, and I thank him for doing that.

Similar wording

I'd just like to sort of go backwards and clarify some things.

Similar wording

We first started a discussion with the applicant or with the attorney in mid-May of this year.

Similar wording

And when I looked at the refusal, I immediately asked, well, what about the other refusals for the steep slope, for the front loaded garage, for the, and it came as a surprise.

Similar wording

You will see in the appeal of the original appeal document that there is no mention in the description of the property of a front loaded garage, and there is only one refusal.

Similar wording

And I'm going to object in that respect.

Similar wording

The only thing that's disclosed in the appeal is the notice of refusal.

Similar wording

Our documents are that we submitted to L and I,

Similar wording

as well as our application references are for a loading garage.

Similar wording

I can't control or my client can't control what the examiner does.

Similar wording

I'm not.

Similar wording

Well, Mr. Hunter, listen, I understand.

Similar wording

But Mr. Nakamura, I'm going to let him continue.

Similar wording

Mr. Nachman, so I'm going to let him continue.

Similar wording

Sorry?

Similar wording

Sorry.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

I continue, Mr. Hunter.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

What I was about to say is that obviously that was considered to be the complete list of refusals

Similar wording

because in the appeal document, it actually says that there's only one refusal and it's a de minimis refusal.

Similar wording

So there's a real misunderstanding about the number of issues that are triggered by this application, partly because of the steep slope.

Similar wording

And this steep slope is one of the steepest slopes that I've ever seen anyone attempt to build on in Maniunk in my 12 years of being zoned chair.

Similar wording

And also because there is the RSA 5 restriction on front-loaded garages just generally throughout the city.

Similar wording

In addition to that, to make sure that it is clarified, there is the Ridge Park Conservation Overlay, which specifically goes into the no front loading parking garage, but also the other issue, which is the habitable room with windows overlooking the street.

Similar wording

And that's introduced to ensure that there is activity on the street and it would limit the and goes hand in hand with the front loaded garage.

Similar wording

So these two main principles that were not addressed at the beginning in mid-May. The revised refusals was issued by L&I last Thursday afternoon. That is two months later.

Similar wording

And therefore, the letter that went out to the neighbours only referred to that one refusal, not all the other refusals which came subsequently.

Similar wording

And I assume the petition that the applicant rustled up, which refers to the appeal document, also was only asked about the one.

Similar wording

Well, if it wasn't, then there were 18 addresses on the petition, 12 of them are on Ripka Street.

Similar wording

And just to understand where Ripka Street is in relation to this side, Ripka Street does not connect to Greenhoff Street.

Similar wording

Greenhoff Street is a dead end of Silverwood Street.

Similar wording

So no one would go down Greenhoff Street unless they were actually driving to a property on Greenhoff Street.

Similar wording

Ripka Street is accessed because of the steep slopes in that area from Silverwood Street, turning left onto Hermitage Street and turning left again to end up in Ripka Street.

Similar wording

The properties do not look to that property on Greenhoff Street. I doubt if most of the people there even are aware of it because there's no reason for them to go down Greenhoff Street.

Similar wording

So there were 18 petitions listed, 12 of them were on Richter Street, and only four were on Greenough Street. So I just wanted to mention that too.

Similar wording

Sorry? We looked at the petitions. We saw that, Mr. Hunter.

Similar wording

Okay. But you have to understand the disconnection, the geographic disconnection between Ripka Street and Greenough Street to realize that the people on Ripka Street probably don't even know why Greenough Street is at that end of the street because it's a dead end.

Similar wording

Okay. Mr. Hunter, thank you for taking the time to call and we appreciate it.

Similar wording

is there anyone else in the virtual i'm sorry i'm not finished yet well okay would you would

Similar wording

you finish then i'm sorry we have another hand raised mr chair it's um rebecca froger

Similar wording

go back to mr hunter go back to mr hunter okay i understood

Similar wording

mr hunter it's been about to speak mr hunter proceed

Similar wording

The applicant on the question at one of our meetings was, has told us that he's not undertaken a geotechnical survey for the property yet.

Similar wording

He's, as I said previously, it's a really steep slope and you really need to be aware of what the geology is on the site.

Similar wording

they're also the the way that they're they're developing the site using piles there's no

Similar wording

explanation on how that would be accessed from either leverington avenue or from greenough street

Similar wording

and that really plays into the disturbance issue because not only have you got to locate those

Similar wording

piles you've got to get access to them you also have to deal with drainage power and all the other

Similar wording

things that need to be uh positioned on the house which will also add to the disturbance

Similar wording

so we're really concerned about that this property has not has been underestimated

Similar wording

the difficulties of building on this extremely steep slope side.

Similar wording

the difficulties of building on this extremely steep slope side going to the other issue which

Similar wording

mr notcheson sort of was preoccupied with the idea of creating that extra area and extension

Similar wording

of greenhouse street that the client initially said he thought he would have to do it was just

Similar wording

some concrete it's a huge undertaking because that area of the of the property dropped significantly

Similar wording

So you have to build a street to the standards that the city requires, and we don't believe that he would do that.

Similar wording

And therefore, if he didn't do that, and he then moved to close the street, which he could do at some later date, the two parking spaces that Mr. Noctis and her sort of trumpeting would not be provided.

Similar wording