Thank you, Councilman. I'd just like you to know that we've been working very closely with Kent Miller from the Municipal Energy Office for a number of years now on programs at the Art Museum relative to lighting, our utility consumption in terms of steam consumption, and we've looked at a number of areas where we are looking towards the future for continuing that refinement and development as well.
The reason I'm asking, the Azalea Garden lights have been on for a month during the daytime.
Thank God they're not on our energy bill. I don't know whose bill they're on, but --
But they're at the Art Museum, right? 170 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255
The lights going up that path towards the Art Museum? No? Okay. Well, they're still on, so when you see them on, let them know.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you so much for that presentation which we saw 171 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 during our visit to the Museum for the Manet exhibition, which is outstanding. I don't have any questions because the questions have been asked that I would ask about the impact of the loss of funding on the Museum. I'd just like to offer my support for the restoration of the cuts and will work very hard to see how we do that. This is a very difficult budget and it seems that whenever cuts are made, they always go to the arts and culture first. I just want to say that I'm very proud of your programs at the Museum, as you know, and I've said this over and over again. I worked there for a number of years, and certainly when I was there, the outreach to the community was not as it is today, and I thank you for your leadership, Anne. You and I were youngsters there. And the inclusion of the entire Philadelphia community, particularly the expansion of the education program, is just outstanding. I think you provide a valuable service. And I know how much I learned when I worked at the Museum and 172 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 how it helped me when I was taking my exams. I scored very high on the English and culture section because of the exposure to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. And you've done a wonderful job. You do have a serious -- you make a serious contribution to this City, and we always send our visitors to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. You have to go. And they know it when they come. And as a participant with the National League of Cities, they were here in 1997 and when I say, I'm from Philadelphia, they say, Oh, we had a great time in Philadelphia and we went to the Museum, it's really a great place. So we certainly applaud you all, you and your staff, for the hard work you do and for the program. And I will say, Anne, I believe that the movement of the Museum in a positive direction can be directly attributed to your leadership. I want to thank you.
Thank 173 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. d'Harnoncourt, let me start with your testimony and then I'll have a couple of other questions. indicates that even with the $2.25 million in City funding in the current fiscal year, because of the poor economic climate, you were forced last year to lay off seven percent of your work force, a loss of 28 jobs; is that correct?
And if we were not having this unfortunate discussion about the possible loss of all of your funding, but if you were to stay at the level where you are, and you've been at that level from the City for the last, is it --
-- nine 174 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 years? If you received everything that you have now, what would be the impact on the Art Museum?
If we continued to receive the level that we're at, it would give us a base to go -- the base to go forward from. We need to try to build slowly, but surely back up to an even greater level of service. It would provide that base.
And you're expecting a number of additional exhibits and activities in the upcoming fiscal year. So is it fair to say that you at least need to stay where you are in order to be able to put on the programs that you're anticipating next fiscal year?
I think it's fair to say that staying where we are would be very important. We understand the pain. We understand the difficulty everywhere, and we're very -- we're very cognizant of that. Staying as close to where we are would mean that we can go forward with some real hope and 175 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 energy.
And let me ask this question again: But for our serious economic times, and I agree that we do have serious economic times, but we make a variety of decisions and we make investment decisions and we make strategic decisions, had you anticipated making any additional requests this year based on prospective activity at the Art Museum?
We have from time to time come to Council and asked for some additional support in light of particular exhibition projects that we have underway, and the Council has been good in hearing those very thoughtfully, whether it's a transfer ordinance or whatever it has been. In the years when we have a very major exhibition, and we believe that Dali will be that -- actually, all our exhibitions for next year are very exciting -- we incur additional costs that are not covered by any -- by whatever sponsorship we can get. So in a normal year, we would 176 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 definitely have come and asked for more support.
And in FY05, given the type of exhibits that you expect to have, what would you anticipate or project those additional costs to be?
I think for the Dali exhibition itself is going to cost us between two and a half and three million dollars. And if it is -- if it really is a remarkable success, surprisingly enough, it will cost us more because of the extra guard staff, the extra maintenance people, the extra things we need to do to keep the collections and the exhibition secure during what we hope is a large public visitation.
And then is there an offset to those expenses by patronage or other fund-raising activities?
There is. As the Museum's budgets have been constructed over the years, we have never quite had the leeway to have the receipts from the exhibition go to support the exhibition. They 177 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 have gone to the bottom line of the institution. So there will definitely be some offset, but I can't calculate how much. But the increased cost will, we project as of now, will be quite significant.
If you could forward to us through the Chair in prior years where you've had this additional expense generated by significant exhibits and what the history has been over the last, say, five to ten years of additional support based on significant exhibitions at the Art Museum, that would be very helpful.
Ms. Harrity, could you provide to us a copy of both of the leases that you made reference to, the 1928 and the 1968?
And is it my understanding from your testimony that 178 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 those leases require the City of Philadelphia to cover your operating costs and utilities?
They are agreements which do spell out the requirement for utilities, security and operating and building maintenance costs.
And in the current fiscal year, that number is $7.4 million, of which the City is providing 2.25 -- I'm sorry; $5.4 million in operating costs, the City is covering utilities and then supporting the other expense with the 2.25?
Okay. I take tremendous advantage. Madam Chair, could I have the Budget Director at the table, please?
While he's coming up, Ms. d'Harnoncourt, do you know of 179 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 any other city-owned facility that generates the kind of economic impact that the Philadelphia Museum of Art does?
Sorry. I beg your pardon. I was distracted by the arrival of my colleague.
Are you aware of any other city-owned facility that generates the level of economic impact that you've laid out for us in the PowerPoint presentation?
I think that's a difficult question to answer, but I am not aware of same. I believe the kind of public impact that we're referring to, I would think the Liberty Bell is clearly one of the greatest attractions. That's not, I believe, a city-owned facility. I believe it's Federal Government.
I think we own the bell. They may own the building or something.
We own the bell, good for us. I should know that. Thank 180 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 you.
I'm stunned that I could tell you anything that you don't already know.
Oh, much, I'm sure. And I think the Constitution Center is beginning to generate, but, again, I don't believe that's a city-owned facility.
The city-owned facilities like the library generate many, many kind of things, but it's not a particular economic impact.
Right. I understand. Mr. Dubow, what was the level of support from the City of Philadelphia for the two sports stadiums in the sports complex?
For the two -- I don't know the exact numbers. I don't have that with me.
Was it 181 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 about $400 million?
Over 30 years, that was -- that may be the right number. I mean, it sounds about right.
Okay. And on an annual basis, didn't this City Council and the Government agree that we would also provide a minimum of $6 million in operating and maintenance support to the one stadium?
We agreed to provide operating and maintenance support. I'm not sure what the lowest number year was, but I think it was -- I think it was about six or maybe even a little more.
Well, in 2003, it's $6.8 million. It stays at that level until 2007. In 2008, it goes to $7.8 million. In 2013, it goes to $9 million. In 2018, it goes to $10 million, and in 2023, it goes to $11 million for a sports facility. But the proposal is -- which we don't own that facility, do we?
But the 182 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 proposal is is that we would zero out funding for the Philadelphia Museum of Art, which we built and we own?
The proposal is to eliminate the operating subsidy, to maintain utilities payments at about 2 million and to maintain capital costs, which are also about 2 million in '05.
And what's the economic impact of the stadium that we support at this level?
There was a detailed study that Arthur Andersen, I guess, did and laid out the economic impact. According to that impact, the stadiums would pay for themselves, but I don't have the detailed dollars with me on that.
And how many visitors do we get to the sports stadium?
I don't know. I don't have support stadium information with 183 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 me.
Okay. But I think you would understand that four years later, in the excitement of supporting sports stadiums, which I voted for, we now find ourselves in a position of being asked to zero out operating support for our own Philadelphia Museum of Art, the Atwater Kent Museum, African-American Museum and other art and cultural institutions, which clearly on their own generate more of an economic impact, more of a public impact. I don't know how many school kids go to the sports stadium, but I know a whole lot of them go to the Philadelphia Museum of Art. They get a lot of programming support and experience, an entirely different world, than they're ever going to experience down at the sports complex. Very exciting, love to see the players. 30-year-old facility was not good enough and so we had to spend enormous sums of money. And so this is the conflict that we now find ourselves in, and I think that it 184 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 is -- at a certain level, I mean, it's just probably two steps short of outrageous that we would do the one and now propose to do this to our own Art Museum. So, I mean, I think it's a comparison worth additional conversation, but I did at least want to get on the record what our support had been, what is being proposed here for this. And I don't think the one is in any way, shape or form comparable to the other. Lack of support for the Philadelphia Museum of Art, if we were in a religious context, would possibly qualify as a mortal sin. It is outrageous. It really is. (Applause.)
Thank you, Madam Chair. I couldn't agree more so with Councilman Nutter in his remarks. I just want to say, of course, Anne, I want to thank you 185 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 and your colleagues for that excellent presentation you have given us this morning. There's a couple things that I would like to discuss. Of course, all of -- you have heard from Councilwoman Brown and Councilman DiCicco yesterday and myself and now you've heard from Councilman Kenney and Nutter and Councilwoman Tasco today. I think all of us are in support of all of our cultural institutions of this City. There's no doubt about it. I think it's a great investment. I think it's investing in our growth of our City, and I think that without it, we wouldn't be a world-class city. There's no doubt about it. The only unfortunate part about it is that we have to face reality, and the reality of the situation, that we're facing a fiscal crisis in this City. We're asking all departments to take substantial cuts throughout this whole City Administration and City Government. With that, with saying that, we are 186 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 going to try to do our best, to do our best to put back as much as we can into the budget to help you to continue the great work that you're doing. There's no doubt about it, that without your institution, without the Museum, without a lot of other things, this City would not be where it is today. This is a small investment, as I said before. I feel more comfortable in the ballpark, to be honest with you. I like the Phillies, I like the 76ers and the Flyers and everyone else, but, there again, with all of that, with all the media exposure that they receive throughout the year, and you can pick up any newspaper and see five or six pages full of sports, they bring in a little over 3 million people to the City. We're out very little exposure. The culture institutions, our art museums and everything else bring in over 11 million people, and I think that being said, that we have an investment to make, of course, with the Museum of Art and all of our other cultural institutions. I think it's very, 187 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 very important. Now, one of the things I would like to ask you is, what is the percentage of your funding that comes from the private sector?
We will have to calculate that for a moment, because it comes in two different forms. One is income from endowment that has been built up over a very long period of time. That's not individual gifts in any current year. And the other is current income.
And what I would add, and we can give you the specifics, supply that in writing to you, but the City support for fiscal '04 was six percent and the balance, as Anne has said, is from earned income such as memberships and admission, endowment income and private donations. So approximately 50 percent -- is that right? So six percent City, approximately 30 percent earned income, 40 percent contributed and roughly 24, percent, 24 25 percent endowment income. So the public 188 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 support of the City is six percent.
Six percent, that's the City's support. And the City, according to your testimony today, the City support has dropped at 41 percent of the security cost of the Museum; is that correct?
I'm sorry. The year of support was at 100 percent of support until 1994, and then it has been dropping consistently.
Since then, since 1994. Now, in fiscal '04, it represented 41 percent of those operating costs for security and building maintenance.
Well, I know I can speak for many members of this Council, we want to absolutely be looking forward to working with you to see what we can do to 189 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255 restore as much funding as we possibly can to your fine institution. Thank you.
I think you all know the sentiments of this body. I think we've all been very loud and clear. I wish we could definitely tell you what we're going to do, but at this point, we just don't know where we're going. However, I do want to thank you for the wonderful work you do, and you'll be hearing from us before long.
We are very grateful for the Council's attention and for your permission to show the PowerPoint.
Thank you. I think that says it all. That was wonderful.
Thank you, all of you, for your support. 190 Whole - 4/20/04 - Bill No. 040255
We're going to call a 20-minute recess because we have stenographers that are going to have to make a switch. So we'll be back in about 9 minutes. 10 (Short recess.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 191 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
We are now back in session. The next department to testify will be the Recreation Department. Is the Commissioner here? Good afternoon.
I would suggest that Council members that are in their office please come down for testimony from the Recreation Commissioner. All right, Commissioner. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon. Madam President, honorable members of City Council, I'm Vic Richard, Recreation Commissioner. I'd like to take a moment to introduce my executive team. To my right and your left is Deputy Commissioner Mary Platt Coles. To my left and your right, Deputy Commissioner Carlton Williams. And Deputy Commissioner Carapucci is somewhere 192 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 in the house. Thank you for giving us the opportunity today to come before you to present our budget request for '05. I'd like to begin by highlighting some accomplishments from Fiscal Year '04, beginning in our maintenance unit. In '04 we continued our reputation for excellence by completing the rehab of two more facilities, Vare, and Francis Myers recreation facilities. Due to the completion of these two facilities, there are now six facilities --
They're both in your District. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Didn't hear you.
And aren't I lucky. 193 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
It was perfect timing, the proper time to invest time and money in those facilities.
Yes, ma'am. There are now six facilities that have been renovated by the recreation maintenance staff within months. This 11 demonstrates our commitment to service. 12 Over a five-month period we 13 installed new play equipment at four 14 playgrounds: 11th and Venango, Granahan, 15 Ferco, and Sergeant and Webber. 16 We believe this type of service to 17 our citizens is what they deserve, and we 18 will continue our commitment to provide 19 this level of quality work. 20 In our programming unit as part of 21 our City's commitment to its youth, we 22 opened a fourth teen center at Francis Myers in November of '03. We are proud to announce the opening of a fifth teen center at Shepherd in May 194 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 of '04. And if I may go on record, I believe that date is May 18th of '04 we will open the fifth teen center at Shepherd recreation facility. The department just recently celebrated its 50th anniversary show of its Citywide dance program. We also just recently hosted the National High School Wheelchair Championships at St. Joe's University that attracted over 400 participants and their parents and guests from cities across the United States. 14 In 2004 the department -- We just 15 recently received last month five awards 16 from the State Conference of Pennsylvania Recreation and Parks Society. The awards that we received were relative to the senior art camp, our teen center concept and program, the Bridesburg Recreation Center swim show, and also our performing arts program. And lastly, the directory of programs that we published last year. In our administration department, 195 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 one of our greatest accomplishments is the ongoing development of our work force. In '04, the recreation staff is receiving training through continuing education seminars in the camping program conferences, supervisory and management courses, aquatics facility management seminars, and various computer courses. Up to 200 full-time program and management staff will receive diversity sensitivity training by the end of '04. And that training began Wednesday of last week. Our FY '05 budget request. 1 million in the General Fund. 9 million; DROP savings $164,000; decrease in the DROP lump sum payments of $1 million; transfer of the Mural Arts Program out of the department of a half a million; and grant support of the Older Adult Program of 196 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 $500,000; and a reduction in the Philadelphia Activities Fund of $800,000; a reduction in service provider contracts, $289,000; and various other adjustments. The City is no longer able to properly operate and maintain all 158 recreation centers and 87 pools. 9 million at 58 centers and 43 pools, which each has larger populations. Philadelphia is well above the median among large cities for the number of facilities per capita, in part because it has an infrastructure designed for a city of over 2 million. Decisions must be made so that the facilities that can continue to operate and provide programs for the citizens of Philadelphia can do so in optimal 197 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 condition. Over the years the City of Pittsburgh was not able to make the tough decisions that included closing some of its aging or underutilized rec facilities. Due to its budget crisis in '03, Pittsburgh practically closed all of its rec centers and most of its pools. These facilities have not been scheduled for reopening as of yet. What happened in Pittsburgh will not happen in Philadelphia. The Rec Department, along with the Administration and the City Council, are currently engaged in discussions to determine the following: What facilities could be possibly transferred, leased or sold to an interested outside party, where facilities that are under utilized could be consolidated with other programming areas, if the facility is deemed obsolete should it be closed or demolished and/or sold.
We realize the importance and the play value of public recreation. So we 198 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 have proposed a lot of the following: That there will be no drop in services for after-school programs and camps that are currently provided at facilities that may be closed, sold, or transferred. Provisions for these program services will be a condition of any transfer or lease arrangement made with a third party. Any tennis or basketball facility or play equipment should continue to be maintained by the City. Obsolete facilities that are demolished should be replaced with passive green space, where feasible. And we also recommend that spray parks should be considered for playgrounds where pools may be considered for closing. In FY '05 the department, we will continue to focus on its core services and mission with the following initiatives: The continuance of standardizing the programming and after school programming, continue implementation of the citywide 199 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 playground inspection schedule for the City's recreation play equipment, the implementation of a language access policy for the City's population with limited English proficiency, and maintain and enhance operations for our teen centers. 6 million in fiscal year '05. Some of our rec operating grants are the summer food programs and also for snack programs, our Human Services Development Fund for our Older Adults Programs, our Local Law Enforcement Block Grants, and Juvenile Accountability Incentive Block Grants. In closing, we are proud of the role that the Recreation Department plays in contributing to the quality of life for all Philadelphians. We thank the City Council for its support and its leadership. And we'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have for us now. 200 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 Thank you.
Thank you, Commissioner. You did indicate that your General Fund is being reduced by approximately $10 million. And I think you itemized some of those reductions. How will that affect your operational impact?
In my testimony the breakdown I gave... I think the area, Madam President, that you're most interested in is the area with the playgrounds and facilities. That's approximately $3.9 million to $4 million. In order for the department to achieve the cut that has been presented and proposed, it would take into consideration the closing of the five ice skating rinks, 20 swimming pools, 40 recreation facilities, along with approximately 40 summer camps as well.
How do you come up with the rationale of $4 million 201 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 due to too many facilities? Councilman Nutter, did you want to...
I'm sorry. I just... I was looking in the budget book, Madam President. Could we ask the Commissioner to repeat that? I didn't understand the answer.
I didn't either. I'm afraid we may have understood it. I asked what the impact of some of the cuts would be, the General Fund of approximately $10 million. Do you mind responding to that again, please?
Not at all. In order to achieve the proposed budget cut that has been presented, as far as to get to the proposed number, is to take into consideration the closing of the 5 ice skating rinks, 20 swimming pools, approximately 40 summer camps, and 40 recreation facilities. 202 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
That's $10 7 million. Is that what you're saying, 8 Commissioner? 9
The right-sizing 10 effort that we're presenting right now is 11 approximately $3.9, almost $4 million. 12
Yes, ma'am. That is 18 in the area. 19 The rest of the money, Mr. 20 Councilman, is between the Vet Stadium, the transferring of the Mural Arts Program...
I'm sorry. I had to get back to my notes. Yes, ma'am. 203 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 $800,000 of that money as well is the Activities Fund as well.
I want the record to be eminently clear. The figures that you're talking about, the closing of the 5 swimming pools, the 40 summer camps, 40 recreation centers, you mean that comes to $4 million?
With the calculations that we have, yes, ma'am, right at $4 million.
What studies have you conducted in order for you to come to this conclusion, and how do we know what facilities are under utilized?
The first part of your question is what studies have we done. There was an analysis that was done, and I hope you all received that analysis.
I don't recall seeing it. 204 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
Do any of the Council members recall seeing the analysis?
What is the title of the document that's being questioned?
It's the Recreation Facility Analysis. I'd have to check with finance to see where it is. I can ask Mr. Dubow. There is an analysis that was done with the other 17 cities as well. 18 We've been also working very 19 diligently with the Planning Commission as 20 well, to take a look at the national standards and the median, of where Philadelphia falls with the population. Also the number of pools that we have, the number of open green spaces that we have, and also the number of recreation 205 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 centers that we have. So the answer to that question is... to... is yes. The criteria that was used... I want to make sure that I quote perfectly. Hang on. The criteria that we used in studying, we looked at the age of the facility. We looked at facilities that were 40 years old and older, 30 years old and older. We looked at the type of material that the building was constructed with. We looked at that design and the layout of the facility, and also evaluated it for its practical and intended use, and evaluate risk and safety as well. We also took into consideration the present structural condition. We also looked at the usage, being the volume of clients or customers that are being served. We took into consideration the proximity to the location, to another facility, and the type of facility that is in that proximity, and also the density of 206 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 the calculation versus the location of facility as well.
Well, we today received correspondence from you, Commissioner, regarding some of the questions that were asked of you during the Capital Budget. And to be very candid with you, I know I have not had an opportunity to even look at it. Does it indicate the usage of the facilities?
It doesn't. Well, I know that with a list that was provided to me or some that may or may not be in my District, I did talk to many of my constituents, who tell me that some of these facilities for closure are really 207 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 utilized. Who do I listen to? Do I listen to them who use the facility? You're not telling me how you got to the information or to the point where you believe that there is no usage or not enough usage. (Applause.)
I rely on valid information from my executive team, and also all of the staff and subordinates, and that's where my information comes from. And I use that information that I rely upon that is to be valid in order to render business decisions, and also to make recommendations to City Council or any other person.
Can we have copies of the utilization data for all facilities, please?
I'll give you a perfect example. And I see that some of my constituents have been sitting here 208 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 since 9:30 this morning. I did not know that they were coming in. But I'll give you a perfect example. Wharton Square was supposed to be on the closure list. Let me just give you a little history on that one. Many years ago Congressman Barrett's office was directly across the street from the park. There was a small building in the park that was supposed to be used by senior citizens to play cards or checkers. Many of the seniors passed away. When Congressman Barrett passed away, I used to sit in his office every Wednesday evening, and all I could hear were bullet shots in the park. Recreation then took that building over. And I will tell you that they now have such a wonderful program that a couple of years ago we actually expanded the building. We have one part-time worker, six volunteers, and we have a gentlemen who lives in the community and cleans the park. 209 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 As a result of that, because of all of the activity, you no longer hear gunshots in the park. If we were in fact to close that, the children would have no programs in that area, the building would be closed and probably be utilized by drug dealers, as they were doing in the park years ago. (Applause.)
And secondly, the building would be so vandalized that it would cost us ten times more to put it back into the condition that it is today. Please tell me we are not closing that facility.
Madam President, there is no definitive list to close anything.
But how do we vote on a budget when we don't know what facilities are being closed?
There have been recommendations. And I want to go off the 210 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 top of my head to say, and I believe the facility that you mentioned is Wharton Square.
I want to go on record to say that off the top of my head Wharton Square is not on that recommended facility list.
It had been. It had been. So, how do we know what facilities are being proposed for closure?
We can provide you all with another listing of the proposed recommended facility listings.
It's not typed up. Half of it's typed up. The rest of it is 211 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 handwritten, with some additions we had to make.
Commissioner, it's no secret that you were coming here today.
It wasn't a secret. Why wouldn't you be prepared in telling us what was being proposed for closure?
Madam President, if you would like me, you can give me a few minutes, I'll go right back to my office. I'll grab the document and come back, if you'd like to.
Oh, I think you could send somebody to your office and get it while you're sitting here.
Commissioner, if we don't get that list during the course of this hearing, I don't know that we go any further.
Madam President, Deputy Commissioner Carapucci says he believes he has a copy of what we worked on again yesterday. And if he does, we will discuss it and present it now.
Can you tell us what will happen to the centers once they're closed?
The majority of the facilities that are being recommended are small C and D facilities. Those facilities that we're recommending closing, we're recommending to maintain the property. So in that --
Are you talking about the building? Is there a building that will be closed? 213 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
What will you do with the building once it's closed?
We are making the recommendations to demolish the building, and to create more green space, and to maintain any preexisting facilities that is on the property. So if there's basketball courts or any tennis courts or play equipment, the City is recommending to maintain those amenities to the neighborhood.
So you're telling us, as I understand it... I just don't want to misunderstand anything you're saying.
You're telling us that every facility that you're closing, the building will be demolished?
We're also 214 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 recommending, Madam President, to do leases or transfers or either sales of some of the properties, relative to any individuals, any non-profits, clergy or whatever, that we may have an opportunity to maintain that facility and the operation, to relinquish the fiscal responsibility of the --
Do you have any determination, a, how much it would cost, if in fact you demolished; b, how many people are interested in purchasing any or all of these facilities; and, c, if they're not, what are you going to do with them?
We don't have an idea yet of the demolition costs. We do have an idea on some of the facilities where individuals or non-profits have expressed an interest, and...
Or leasing? 215 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04
It's both, Madam President. And what was the last part of your question? I'm sorry.
I just wondered if in fact somebody doesn't show any interest. You're saying you're going to demolish. Wouldn't you want to know how much it would cost for the demolition? It may end up costing you more for the demolition than it would cost to keep the facility open for a year. (Applause.)
That is something that we're interested in, yes, ma'am. Thank you.
I'll come back. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam 216 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 President. Commissioner, does this proposed list have to be approved or is the proposed list the final list?
I want to say it will be approved by yourselves, along with the Administration.
So, the list is available now, the proposed list, and there's approval process. Can you tell me what that process is?
We've been going around having one-on-one meetings with each of the District Council members and with some of the at-large as well, to answer questions to present the recommendations. And right now, to my knowledge, and right now, there's no definitive list as of yet.
Will we be voting on that list specifically, and will 217 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 District Council members have the ability to remove or to add or to do anything like that?
Those are some of the things that we've been asking for, participation and leadership from the Council members, yes, sir.
So, what the Council member of the particular District wants will happen?
I can't answer that one. Maybe Rob Dubow or someone else can answer that.
Would we be expected to approve this budget prior to the finalization of the list? Yesterday we learned we're losing 19 percent of our ladder companies and 7 20 percent of our engine companies. But the 21 Commissioner couldn't tell us where they 22 were or wouldn't tell us where they were 23 but expects us to pass a budget prior to 24 knowing it. 25 Do you have that same expectation 218 Whole - Operating Budget - 4/20/04 that we'll be passing a budget prior to knowing what the facilities are that's going to be closed, leased, transferred or demolished?
No, sir. I'm prepared to discuss that and present -- But I defer that question to Mr. Dubow or anyone else.