Committee Hearing, March 17, 1999

2928 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CAPITAL PROGRAM & BUDGET HEARINGS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, March 17, 1999 1:25 p.m. - - - Bill No. 990026 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . Bill No. 990027 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . Bill No. 990028 - Amending Chapter 19-1800 of The Philadelphia Code entitled "School Tax Authorization". . . PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN JOAN KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO CHARLES MCPHERSON, Chief Financial Officer - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2929 3/1/99 WHOLE COMM./BUDGET/SCHOOL DIST. I N D E X David Hornbeck, Superintendent of Schools . . 2930 Thomas Doyle, President . . . . . . . . . . . 2980 Local 1201 School Employees Bonnie Brooks, School Aide I. . . . . . . . . 3029 Philadelphia School Board 2930 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET P R O C E E D I N G S

This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No.'s 990026, 990027, and 990028. Mr. Hornbeck, do you have remarks that you want to present to us before --

I do have brief remarks.

-- we start asking questions?

Yes, thank you very much. Madam President and members of Council, first let me say that I understand and share your frustration about the book issue. It's a top priority for the District, and we intend take strong action to resolve this problem. I would like to take this opportunity to make a few comments regarding the issue of books as it arises from the data that we supplied to you in the last few days. First, there is good news in the numbers as well as in our mutual experience. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET weeks ago, there has been a huge drop-off in the number of letters and phone calls to you noting book shortages. In that instance, the Councilman reported that the last one he received was last September. That corresponds with our experience with the hotline and the other normal channels through which we have heard concerns in the past. While there was no baseline data four years ago because neither you nor the District had put the issue under a microscope in the past, there is no doubt that your leadership and ours have resulted in large improvement. That's reflected in the fact that only percent of the 15 schools reported present shortages in one or more 16 classes in one or more subjects. 17 By way of comparison, a survey taken 18 not four years ago but in 1996 showed that 172 schools, or 67 percent, reported having insufficient books. The dollar estimates of what it would take to provide adequate books ranged from $1,000 to $2,000 in some schools to over $200,000 in others. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET including almost $5 million, to address the immediate needs of the schools reporting book deficiencies. In 1997-'98, we spent more than $22 million on books and instructional materials. And this year, we added at least $1 million to last year's allocation. However, we are not satisfied. Further improvement is required. The following action have been taken: A working group has been established by the Chief of Staff's Office. It will convene during the week of April the 5th to generate a set of recommendations to take to the Board of Education for policy changes and to establish a set of system-wide guidelines about book inventory management. The group consists of five high school principals -- four from middle school, eight from elementary schools, and three cluster leaders. By the end of April, they will have a set of recommendations to present to the Board in May. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET what their needs are, what steps have already been taken, and what supports and oversights are necessary. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Six, inclusion of responsibility for books in the family-teacher-student compact agreement being developed now for each student. It arises out of the new graduation and promotion requirement, and Board Member Mr. Lurie is chairing that effort; Seven, collection by SEPTA of books left on buses and the subway for regular District pickup; The possibility of employing "workfare" individuals to help with book inventories during the summer reorganization period; Reemphasis of the book hotline through media and other channels; And the utility and effectiveness of on-site spot book inspections by me and Ms. Ingram and others. Your frustration around this issue is surpassed only by our own. I assure you of our continued aggressive efforts to resolve our continuing problems. Solving more of this puzzle is an important piece of continuing our dramatic improvement in student achievement. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET questions you may have. Thank you.

Thank you. I certainly want to thank you for sending information Council requested on the status of textbooks in the schools. I was more than a little surprised at your report. It raised more questions than it answered. For instance, a week ago last Friday night, I attended the Crime Commission dinner, and at one point in time, I used the wash room, and a mother came in and said to me, My child goes to X-school and I want you to know that I've been reading the newspapers, and the reports are accurate. My daughter does not have books. She does not have textbooks to take home for any of her work. Last Saturday, I was at a function, and a teacher approached me, who indicated to me that they did not have English books in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th grades. And yet, I look at your reports, and both schools would indicate that they have sufficient books. Now, what do you consider sufficient books? Is it one per child, one for every four or 2936 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET five children? Two children have to share a book? I don't know what "sufficient books" would designated to you because, as I said, in just meeting people who are very involved with the School District, it would indicate to me that they do not have what you've referred to as "sufficient books."

Well, my definition of "sufficient books" comes primarily from the teachers and through the principal, and that is whatever textbooks are required in a given class for each student -- not one for two or one for five -- that permits them to have class during the course of a year, and to have kids know and be able to do what is required during that school year that will in fact contribute to kids being able to read and do math and do science better. So it's really a teacher definition in that way, coming through the principal, that constitutes my definition.

But in your report in the attached, you also say that it is necessary for the principal to stress to staff the requirement that textbooks be permitted to go home 2937 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET with students. I don't think that is the case, as I'm hearing it from parents. They do not have textbooks to take home to do homework.

Well, I was trying to respond to what I considered to be the right action in a school. And the right action, in my judgment, is for every child to have the books that are required in the definition of that teacher and be able to take them home.

Can you tell me when that determination is made?

It should be made in the -- as school starts every year.

Does anybody in the District require that each school be monitored as to the status of the textbooks throughout the year and update central administration as to the sufficiency?

We have done the kind of survey that we've given you the data from this year and that we had in 1996. We have not yet done the kind of book management control or inventory control that would give us that kind of data on a routine and regular basis, and it's that 2938 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET to which I refer in the comments that I made in opening the -- in my opening comments. Because I have concluded that even though we have gone from 38 percent of the schools reporting adequate books to 82 percent of the schools reporting adequate books in a two-year period, asking the same people in each instance, I still think that we've got to continue to improve. And the kinds of things you're suggesting or you're implying in your question I think are right on target, and I think we need to go ahead and do that, and that's what will be presented to the Board in May.

Can you verify for me, the Ethan Allen School, apparently they have insufficient books in English. It would appear that many of the schools have insufficient books in English, social studies, science, and it's four grades that have the shortage. And the action taken indicates that it went to the Book Bank. Can you tell us what the Book Bank is and where is that located, or give us some explanation of that.

I think that what 2939 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET they're referring to there -- though I cannot answer the question of why they would go to the Book Bank for --

Where is the Book Bank?

The Book Bank is at Fifth and Luzerne. It is the old Roberto Clemente School -- or a long time ago, it was the Advancement School. And it has been turned into a book bank in which there are now more than a million books available. But those books are not designed to be, you know, frontline books; there ought not to be a single classroom, a single school in this whole district that depends upon the Book Bank for its basic book supply. The Book Bank is extremely valuable in a supplemental way, and lots of teachers find it very valuable. But one of the things, as I said in my comments, by March the 25th, we will have circled back to each of those 46 or 47 schools that said they had shortages and burrow a whole lot deeper into it. And that's the kind of question that we would -- 2940 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

That's fine, and I commend you for that, but what bothers me is the fact that, as I said, I speak to a parent and I speak to a teacher, and your survey indicates that there are sufficient books in both of those schools. And yet, we're being told otherwise. So how do you correct that? Now, you say it's the principal's responsibility? Well, somebody's not being very honest here as far as I'm concerned.

Well, somebody is not; I think that's correct.

That's obvious, that's extremely obvious to me.

And those are the reasons that we believe to go from where we are to where we all want to be does in fact require a combination of those actions that I laid out in my opening testimony. I don't believe we are going to get to the point approaching 100 percent that you and I and all of us want to achieve absent taking -- basically two kinds of action is what it amounts to. One is a much more aggressive centralized 2941 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET book inventory or management control approach that you were just going to on the one hand; and secondly, being a lot more, I guess rigorous is what it would amount to in enforcing student responsibility for their piece of this. And both of those things, both the school, the School District responsibility and the student responsibility needs to be addressed a lot more aggressively.

What is the District's procedure for allowing a school to use school book funds for other purposes?

The procedure is that the principal, the home school president, and the building representative needs to certify that there are adequate books before they are permitted to spend the money on other things.

Now, when the District receives such a request, do they do any verification before they go through the approval process?

No. We think that parents and teachers and principals, until they demonstrate to the contrary, should be trusted. 2942 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

I don't want to dominate the hearing. I understand that Councilwoman Blackwell has to leave shortly, so at this point in time, I will recognize Councilwoman Blackwell.

Thank you, Madam President. It is obviously an emergency or I would not step out of a hearing as important as this and on an issue that we've worked so long and hard on. I only have three questions to ask, and I'll ask them all at once. First, with regard to your statement, I believe that many of the things -- in fact, I specifically asked a question about reemphasis of the hotline when the numbers went down from 200-and-some to some 16 or or something like 18 that. Those things are important. You mentioned development of management guidelines and all of these other positive initiatives. But I absolutely think the first one is the wrong way to go. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET initiated a system to get books back. Part of the upset today is because the media's reporting that the School District didn't spend money on books. So how can we penalize students when we don't penalize ourselves for what we don't do and then -- or for what has not happened, but initially, the first point begins to penalize student when you don't have a system. , etc. -- that all of these initiatives certainly begin before we begin to penalize students when we don't know what the leaderships of their schools are. And I think it's very, very important that we do that. And certainly, I would make the request that we hold up on your first point until the others are done. Number two, I want to -- my second point is that on March -- I wanted to make that number third. On May 29, 1997, on June 12, 1997, on March 25, 1998, on April 21, 1998, and on May 7, 1998, we had hearings on the School District's response to emergencies. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET a kid who died like Kylan Tyler, the child who died at McMichael of meningitis and who lived across the street from a public housing high-rise, and the upset that cost. Or an emergency can be a shooting in a school other in the school yard. A health emergency can involve any of those things and everything in between. Certainly, we have been asking all this time last for the last few years for a system. Just as in fire emergencies, every principal knows what to do and has it posted, that we know what to do for emergencies. I am happy to say that we met on March 15th, and I would like to commend Vernard Trent, Gwen Porter, under the direction of Bill Epstein, for coming up with a draft of a poster that can be used. What I would like to do is pass it around for Councilmembers to see and certainly ask them if they want to make any changes. I think it's great that we finally have a form that we can use that can be posted so that everybody knows what happens in emergencies. /SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET return it when you're finished. My last question is, we just received a call -- I didn't check it 'cause it's not in my District -- from a parent whose child goes to William Penn High School. She said it took her child from September till the end of February to get a science book, and she still has no English book. I would ask you to check on that. And I would also note, as I was asked by reporters yesterday, since there are many schools in the West Philadelphia cluster listed where books were requested and where students don't have books, where books are requested or ordered, how long will that take? Are we talking about that we -- that if the books are ordered, will they receive them now? Or are you talking about a September date? I know I mentioned four or five different things, but I wanted to get them in and then let you respond.

Thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell. First of all, I agree that we should never put in place initiatives that impact simply 2946 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET on students and in a sense hold them accountable or responsible where other things are not moving forward before or simultaneously. It would be my own view that those things are not listed in the order of implementation; that, in fact, on both counts, the school/School District responsibility and the student responsibility, that those things need to move forward at the same time.

I disagree. Excuse me, Dr. Hornbeck. I would hope that after the other issues are initiated, then if you would even come back and let us know and keep us updated, then you start after that to penalize folks. I mean, to take kids' proms from them and class trips and sports activities before you get a system in place is unfair.

I agree with that.

I think after that system has had -- you need a school year for that system to be worked out, to initiate a program, unless you're going to do it over the summer and have it ready for September, and then maybe this time next year, we can talk about penalties like proms and class trips. 2947 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

Well, I expect a system, the new system to go into place for the closing of school this year. I don't want to wait till next year or when school opens. We need to have the new pieces of the book management system in place for school closing. It needs to apply to the activities that go on during the course of the summer because those are the moments when we need to make sure that before staff arrive back at school and before students arrive at school in September, that the books have been sorted out so that we can get on with it immediately. And then the distribution of the book system come September needs to be in place, when everybody arrives. The real impact of any issues related to students under that sequence of events is not going to take place until the '99-2000 school year, but I don't expect it to wait until June of 2000. I expect the management system to have already moved into place at the end of this year and that the students be advised of the new rules in effect as they come to school and receive the books. And it's not even just the students; 2948 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET it's also an interest in having the families engaged in that process too because I think all of us have had the experience at one time or another of having been told by our mother or our father that we're to pay attention to things like that. So, you know, it's kind of a three-way set of responsibilities. On the issue of medical emergencies, we're pleased with where we are with that. We certainly would welcome any further suggestions that you may have or as other Councilmembers review what you're passing around that they may have. And we will continue to work with you on that because, as you say, there are a whole variety of possible emergencies that can and do arise as a matter of fact, and we share your intense interest in being on top of those as they do. On the several clusters and the parent at William Penn, if you would just give us some of those particulars, we will follow up on those immediately and specifically and get back to you on each one.

Thank you. 2949 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Madam President, if there is a vote before I return --

I doubt that there will be a vote today.

Thank you.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Superintendent.

Good afternoon.

When you were here on March 3rd when this issue arose, although I think I may not have necessarily been in the room 18 at that time, the briefing book that we received, which, I think, has a cover letter of February 26th, in Section 7 on textbooks reads that from September 1998 until the present, the textbook hotline has received only 16 calls. Thirteen separate schools were named, and all but four of the calls dealt with grade 7 and above. Once again, each call was thoroughly investigated and 2950 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET the caller was responded to within our five-day window. Should I take from that that back on March 3rd when there was discussion about this, or as early as March 1st when the hearing started, that the District was under the belief that only schools possibly had book problems at that 9 time? 10

No. We were under the 11 impression -- that, in fact, continues to be so -- 12 that there had been huge progress made in the last 13 two years, and we were reporting to you simply one of the avenues for receiving information that we have. If somebody had come up to me and said, "No, there are not 13, there are 17," I wouldn't have been surprised. I frankly was surprised that there were 46.

Well, so was I.

I was particularly pleased because I went back and I said, How does that compare to anything? because nobody seems to have picked that up. And that's the reason that I was pleased that just two years ago, 67 percent 2951 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET (not just percent) and 172 schools (not just 46 schools) said they didn't have books. So it's whether you want to look at the world through the glass half-full or half-empty. And whichever way you do it, as I've suggested in my testimony, I think we've still got things to do. We certainly haven't solved the entire problem.

Well, you're right. 11 But I have to say that whether based on our 12 discussion prior to budget hearings and then 13 certainly receiving the book and reading through 14 the book, I don't think, either based on our 15 discussion or reading the materials, that an 16 unreasonable person or a reasonable person would 17 be led to believe that there was really not much 18 of any kind of book problem at all. And if I read this document and took the document seriously, 16 calls, 13 schools, I mean that would be incredible progress. It would be -- you would be in a position of having virtually solved the problem. And quite honestly, I thought on March 1st and I thought on March 2nd that based on the 2952 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET materials and the discussion that this was a non-issue. And it was only on the afternoon of the 3rd that it became more of an issue. And quite honestly, after getting the report, I guess Friday, it seems that it was even more of an issue than certainly I thought and maybe either you thought or communicated at that time. So, I mean, I guess I would -- I would ask then: When did you realize that this problem was, in fact, greater than anyone believed it to be?

When I got that report.

Only when you got the report?

Yeah. What I was reading in effect up until that time is exactly what you read --

Okay.

-- up until that time. And that is that from the variety of channels that for years had impacted almost on a daily, certainly a weekly basis, whether phone calls from members of Council or letters from parents or the hotline source, that there was a very -- a very 2953 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET large improvement that I couldn't quantify. And we reported that.

Right.

And if the survey had come back saying there were, you know, places 7 that had classes out of 259, that would have 8 corresponded a lot more closely to where my 9 impression was that things were. 10

Right. 11

It came back as it did. 12 And, as I say, despite the really quite 13 extraordinary improvement that's measurable, and I 14 confess to you that I do celebrate that. And it 15 was because of Council and it was because of us 16 and it was because we put more money in and it was 17 because we put a lot more emphasis on it, there's 18 this gigantic improvement, but we're not there 19 yet. 20 And I think that, again, as we continue 21 to try to solve this problem entirely that we will get there.

Well, why don't we just stipulate and agree that there has been improvement, because I don't want to discount it, 2954 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET I don't want to ignore it, I don't want to negate it.

Yeah, but I think we ought to stipulate and agree that there's both been improvement and we have a long way to go.

And where you are, you have to measure where you came from.

Absolutely.

I understand that. My concern and I guess my problem is, is that I was actually under the impression that we were even farther beyond 82. And so to hear that we then, at least for me, are only at 82, thinking that the number was probably in the high 90s, a non-issue.

Right.

So 13 calls, 16 schools is a disappoint at least for me.

It is for me as well.

And I think my concern now is absent the March 3rd exchange and literally putting Miss Ingram and Miss Sparkman in somewhat of a difficult position at about 9 o'clock that night and requesting that this survey 2955 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET be done, we might not be having this discussion, and you and I would continue on in our lives with what we have now agreed on the record is a misimpression. And I guess what I don't understand is how did we get so far in the school year without you or the other parties knowing that? That's what I'm concerned about at this point.

All right.

Because then I have to ask you, What goes on in the course of the school year in the current system? I appreciated your testimony, and I'm going to read it a couple more times. You have a lot of things in there most of which I probably agree with. But what I need to better understand is, how did we get to the March 3rd situation and then the survey that we received over the weekend and absent our request, no one knew about it?

Well, as I tried to suggest in my testimony, the system-wide management controls that we will identify for the Board by the end of April and put in front of them in May didn't exist. And so you have to have 2956 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET those in order for that to happen.

I understand. Well, who is responsible for books and the instructional materials in their inventorying -- if that's a real word -- and accountability at 21st and the Parkway? Whose job is it to be in charge to be in charge of books and supplies and instructional materials?

Well, the inventory of books, as it has been practiced over the years, has been kept at the school level. There is a kind of purchasing responsibility in the Managing Director's Office, but there has not been the existence of --

That's just based on requests coming in, when "X-Y-Z School" says, I need to buy books, or somebody else says, I need to buy books, they just buy the books?

What I'm saying is that what I think you are correctly asking for is the kind of centralized management controls as it relates to books that would permit you to track at any given moment or at least at appropriate times during the year who has how many books and how 2957 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET many aren't there and how much money hasn't been spent and when the last order went out and so on.

Right.

And as far as I know, at least for a great many years, that just hasn't existed.

Okay.

And that represents, as I suggest here, in both Council's and our continuing quest to make this be a hundred percent or as near as we can get there, one of the two major next things that need to be done and not sometime way in the feature but before the end of this school year.

All right. So for the moment, the answer is, is until you go through the process at the 21st and the Parkway level, there really is no one essentially responsible for that, and that responsibility is primarily at the school level.

That's correct.

Now, who at the school level is responsible for making sure that every school student has what they need in his or 2958 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET her hands?

Basically, the principal; although at a high school that's got 3,000 kids in it, that will get dispersed at some extent both to assistant principals and to department chairs. But it is basically the principal's responsibility.

And when we say that they're responsible for that, what does that actually mean? Do they have to fill out a report on a monthly or quarterly basis, semiannual basis, end-of-the-year basis? How, in fact, are they responsible?

Basically over the years, a principal has exercised that responsibility in a way that he or she designs. That's what I'm saying, that there is not a centralized way in which that has taken place. And until Council and the District and others gave principals money, then they didn't -- that was one of the big problems, but that's no 23 longer a problem. The problem is the absence of the kinds of management controls that we're talking about. 2959 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

Well, I don't know how many ways there are that you can actually do this, but I guess at least in theory, your testimony is that there are virtually 259 different ways of keeping track and accounting for what's going on because there are 259 schools and there are 259 principals, and each one of them can do it any way they want.

They are -- in effect, the answer to that -- what I'm trying to say, and I don't know how to say it more clearly is that that's right.

Okay.

That the schools have that decision-making authority up until this time, but it is clear that something different is necessary.

Okay. What are the core subjects for which students either must or should have books?

Well, I think that at a minimum, there should be English, math, science, and social studies.

English, math, 2960 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET science, social studies. And by way of the report, at least, it seems for most -- it might be most, it seems that most of the schools that didn't have the X in the sufficient block seemed to report deficiencies in most of those four areas.

In one or more of them, that's right.

Right. Councilwoman Blackwell and I had the same question, and I think I commented about this earlier. Of the 47 schools, although the report says 46, but of the 47 that are actually in the report, 13 of them are split between the West Philadelphia Cluster and the Overbrook Cluster -- 6 in Overbrook, 7 in West Philadelphia. Is there anything unusual about that level of concentration of insufficiency versus a broader spread throughout the system that would have -- I mean, there are many clusters that none of the schools are reporting deficiencies, and with those two at least, it is 50 and 51 percent. Any insight on that?

There's no apparent 2961 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET reason for that discrepancy.

Can you state for the record whether the District knows -- because this is the other side, and I think it is appropriate and fair to recognize that there is another side to this discussion, because one of two things happens, I assume, in the first two or three weeks of school. First, hopefully students show up, they get rostered. You have, as best I can tell, solved the leveling problem, which was another problem when you got here, and I don't hear anybody talking about leveling much anymore. Let's say Student Michael Nutter is in 10th grade at "X-Y-Z High School." It's now three weeks into the school year. Do you know for a fact that I have received every book that I'm supposed to receive for the six classes that I'm registered for? Does the District know and can you tell me that on September 17, 1998, virtually 100 percent of the students got the books that they were supposed to get?

There is no report under the present procedures that specifically affirms that, no. 2962 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

Do students have to sign for the books they get?

They do not at the present time as a matter of system-wide --

So you just go to wherever you go and say, I'm taking chemistry this year, or I'm taking social studies or English 208 -- or whatever the course number is, and I need X-Y-Z book, and they just get it?

Well, it probably doesn't happen exactly like that.

I'm sure it doesn't happen like that. There's no system like that.

The teachers, in fact, are the ones who say to the student, You need this book.

Right.

And in a great many of the schools, there is --

So when I come to my English class somewhere in the first couple days of school, the English teacher says, This year, we are using this book for this course, passes out 30-some-odd books, everybody gets one, 2963 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET but they don't have to sign for it.

No, I didn't say that you didn't have to sign for it; I said that there is no system-wide affirmation of that coming back to the system.

Okay.

The missing ingredient here is not that lots of kids don't have to sign for their books; lots of kids do have to sign for their books. But until we put into place what I said in my opening needs to be a testimony a system-wide management control feature that will include features like that, it doesn't exist at the moment.

Okay. Last question. On the numbers, in the February 26th book, I think the testimony or the documentation or possibly in the report, it indicated that in the current year, $17 million has been spent on books and that schools, individual schools, have a total of $10 million still unspent for books, and that the current allocation this school year was $22 million for books. Somewhere in that, even with some 2964 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET difficulties I had in college with some of my math courses, those numbers don't necessarily add up. Are there roll-over dollars from the previous school year that have been rolled into this year? Why is there $10 million left over if you had 7 to start and you spent 17? 8

I can't answer that 9 question, Mr. Nutter. Let me see if there's. . . 10

It's in the 11 report. Thus far this year, schools have spent a 12 total of $17 million on textbooks, instructional 13 aids, and materials. In addition, 36 schools have 14 requested and received supplemental textbook 15 allocations. These schools received a total of 16 526,000 in additional monies. Furthermore, more 17 than $10 million is still available in individual 18 school budgets for the purchase of books and 19 instructional materials during the remainder of 20 this school year. 21 When I flip to Section 7 on textbooks 22 in the February 26th document, the Historical 8 Perspective Section says that during the current school year, schools have available to them a total of over $23 million for the purchase of 2965 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET textbooks and instructional support materials. Last year, the number was $22 million. All I'm asking is if you have -- I was off by a million -- if you have $23 million allocated for books, you spent 17, how do you have left over? 8

A piece of that may be 9 because there are expenditures from Title 1 in 10 there as well.

Okay, that are allowable for both.

That's over and above the operating budget.

Okay, all right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In his inimitable way, Councilman Nutter touched about on every area or question I wanted to ask. I think that's probably 'cause we 2966 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET went to the same high school; we somewhat think alike. But there's a couple of areas that I would like to talk about. First of all, there's two questions and a request that I have, and then a statement. I don't necessarily agree with Councilmember Blackwell in regards to the immediate and prompt requirement that students be held responsible. And I think part of the issue is the word we get on the penalties maybe is what I think makes Councilwoman Blackwell concerned about the use of the word "penalties." But I do believe that if we use the word "responsibility," I think we may get a better result. The book issue for me and the book itself I believe is symbolic of both the educational process and what's wrong with it in these days. My experience, as a 40-year-old, a lifelong Philadelphian, is that when I was in school, the books, their conditions, their return, and their use was basically sacrosanct. The book had meaning, it had value. And I think what has happened over the 2967 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET years perhaps in the public school system is the loss of that requirement of responsibility, and the loss of the solemnity of the book is symptomatic of a lot of problems that we face in the school system. It's the reason why kids don't come to school, 'cause there's no responsibility, there's no penalty generally, until recently, for not coming to school. Why children come to school and then leave when they feel they have a need to get up and walk out the door is another symptom of what I think revolves around this issue of books. And it's not just on a student level; it's also on the principal, administrative, and perhaps even teaching level. And that's why I agree with Councilmember Blackwell. If we're going to hold children responsible in some punitive way, potentially by elimination of extracurricular activities or proms or whatever it is, then I think we need to hold administrators responsible for failure to follow through with the appropriate distribution and collection of these important books. Because they should pay some financial price for not having those books returned in an 2968 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET appropriate condition. As they said when I was a kid, edges clean, books covered, pencil marks removed from the book. Because the issue surrounding the book was one of responsibility. And I don't think you disagree with me in this, and I sense from your testimony that there's going to be a renewed effort to try to bring that issue of responsibility to both the students and to the teachers and to the principals and to the administrators. And I think if we do that, I think in the long run, we're going to have a better system, not just a better inventory of books. The 82 percent, I guess, is a B-minus and I don't anybody in this room's parent ever accepted a B-minus from any of their children, and that's probably why we've been successful. And I think that's what we need to work on. That's my statement. The question I have is, I need to know if it's possible from the textbook survey, the dates that where it's listed action taken, it says "books ordered." If there's some way that we could be provided on each of those lines that says 2969 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET "ordered books," "books ordered," "ordered materials," "ordered books," as to the date that those actions were taken. Because I want to get an idea as to whether or not -- and I'm not supposing this, I want to see and eliminate from my mind whether or not some of these actions took place over the last three weeks.

The answer to that is yes, and it would be one of the things -- in my statement, I mentioned this intensive look in the next several days, and a piece of that can be just that.

Fine, thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you.

Madam President, could I just say that once in a while, Councilman Kenney and I disagree or don't see eye to eye on things, but I do want to say that on this issue of standards and the issue of responsibility, I think we really are on the same page, and I think it's extremely important. And my own view is that it is the 2970 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET reemphasis of standards more than any other single thing and the accountability that has accompanied it that has resulted in the improvement in achievement. And I think what we're talking about here, I think the way you put it, that this isn't just about books; this is about taking next steps for the notions of accepting responsibility and meeting standards.

Well, I think we can thank St. Patrick for our agreement today.

I will certainly join in that.

And I would certainly agree with that statement because I think it's absolutely outrageous that we spend over a million dollars every year for lost or unreturned books. And to me, that indicates a lack of responsibility. May I just ask a couple more questions. What are emergency textbook allocations, and how does the school qualify for these additional funds?

We have kept in the -- an allocation goes out to a school in the way that 2971 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET the process has worked historically. And in most places, that proves to be adequate for the books for that year. But we have kept an amount of money at the central office so that if there is some set of circumstances -- I don't know what it says, but for example, if Prince Hall happened to have been one of those, and I don't know that it was, they had a fire there that burned up a whole bunch of books. They may very well have spent their ordinary allocation, and they would make a request of our office for extra money in effect to replenish that. Or if you have a situation in which unusual or increased enrollment takes place, where you just didn't expect that extra 30 kids or whatever, and thus, that wasn't a part of that, you could make a request, and for those kinds of specific reasons, receive an extra allocation.

Your statement says that since September 1998, 30 schools have received $412,000. It is anticipated that additional schools will receive these emergency allocations during the remainder of the 2972 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET year. Now, is that for more students than anticipated? I don't understand what the emergency --

Well, for example, we didn't know that Prince Hall was going to burn.

Well, that's one school. I mean, you're talking about 30 schools.

Well, we could, in fact, put together identification of the reasons in those 30 schools, if that would be helpful to you.

What would be helpful to me is, I would like you to make it eminently clear for this record and for me what the District's textbook take-home policy is.

Every student should have the books the teacher determines is necessary to teach that course, and that student has the right to take that book home.

Well, why are some of the schools simply saying home a mimeographed piece of paper for homework?

Well, there -- I think 2973 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET -- I don't agree with these two comments I'm about to make when I'm answering question of why does that happen.

Well, we're asked those questions, and I would like you to give us answers to them.

The reasons are primarily twofold. A week ago, I would have told you that there was one primary one, and it is a very, very longtime practice, a culture in Philadelphia that kids are going to lose their books or destroy 'em or whatever, and the only way that gets prevented is to prevent them from taking them home. Now, the reason I said what I said is that I don't agree that that ought to be done, and the policy is to contrary, but you ask why, and that's why. I heard a fascinating story from one of my senior staff the other day who was in a high school on a routine visit and was being escorted by a student and because of the focus on books, asked the student, "Do you have enough books?" And the student said yes. 2974 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET And then the second question always is, "Do you take them home?" And the student said no. And the question was "Why not?" And the expectation was that the student was going to say "'Cause we're not allowed to" -- for the reasons I just gave you. But in this particular instance, the answer was that the -- in that particular high school, students had been told that there would be repayment or restitution required, and the student made the decision that she might lose the book if she took it home, and so she left it in her locker because she didn't want to pay. So I'm simply saying to you that neither reason is a legitimate reason. Both reasons are contrary to policy of the School District, but both reasons reflect the answer to your question. And it grows out of this very longtime both practice and experience before there was enough. I mean, frankly now, if a kid loses his book, the policy is the kid gets a new book. Now, we need to address this other issue of incentives and payback and all of that.

There has to be some accountability. 2975 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

I agree with that.

I'm a firm believer in that.

But another piece of it is that the kid needs a book. But there was a time before you all exercised leadership and we exercised leadership that if a kid lost his book, it was gone, there was no way that anybody was going to replace it. There was a time before this administration and the leadership of this Council that the money was -- the money was insufficient to have more than one set of books in a school; and thus, you couldn't let one class take 'em home because you wouldn't have another class. All of those things are still mindsets. And what we are, I think successfully, beginning to do -- because it shows up in the achievement of kids but we're not there yet -- is breaking through that mindset of changing a pattern of practice that goes back years. 23 And all the things we talked about 24 today and needing to do responsibility on the side 25 of adults, the responsibility on the side of kids 2976 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET is in effect the next step of penetrating that decades-long culture that arises from lots of ways because it is a wrong practice. And I share your view on that 100 percent. Ms. Ingram was just reminding me that, unfortunately, the experience of Philadelphia has also extended to lots of other school districts across the United States. And as a consequence, there are actually publishers who, with the books, create what are referred as "ditto masters," which is a way of duplicating what is in the book so that the book, in fact, does get left at school. And what that is is a market response to a common practice. Now, I happen to still think that kids ought to have book bags and they ought to carry their books home. But I just share that with you to say to you that we are in one sense not only dealing with a Philadelphia phenomenon, but even as, in a sense Councilman Kenney's comments about standards and deterioration of a sense of responsibility and so on, that's not a Philadelphia phenomenon either. Frankly, I think that what is happening 2977 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET here in Philadelphia with the various accountability systems, in fact, is in a leadership role, and this is just another example where we need to, you know, we need press that. But I agree with you, I have no quarrel with that position at all.

Mr. Hornbeck, it's my understanding that in past years, schools have had the ability to roll over all leftover money to do purchasing for the following year. Is that policy still in existence, or has that changed?

That is true for book and materials monies; it is basically not true for other monies. And the reasoning behind that is that books have become extremely expensive, a 50-bucks-a-book kind of thing is not at all unusual. And there will be schools who will anticipate, knowing that they're going to need to replace their whole math series or their whole reading series or whatever, not this year but next year, and they know that that book allocation won't cover all of that. And so they, in effect, 2978 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET bank the money for those two years or sometimes even three years so that they will have enough to buy the books for all the kids at the moment that it's time to replace that series.

But it would appear that there's a loss of like 50 percent of money for which there is a no-carry-forward request?

I'm not sure I understand.

In one of the books or materials that we saw, there was never an indication that there was a carry-over request for new books.

I. . .

I will get that, I will get that.

Okay, thank you.

Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No questions at this time.)

Mr. Hornbeck, I will ask you to stay if you will. I think there are some other witnesses. 2979 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET We had heard at one of our meetings that a principal had to make a choice between books or uniforms, and I think we have someone here that can talk about the uniforms.

I'll be glad to do that.

The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Yeah, I apologize for getting here late today. In the material handed out today, it had a textbook survey and it indicates the name of the school and if in fact the school or classes that needed books were ordered. Do we happen to know when these books may have been ordered? And that may be too difficult for you to answer on every school, but I'm just curious. Were books that were ordered at the beginning of the school year or have they just been ordered because of the fact that we have just been informed as of about two weeks ago that some certain schools did not have enough books?

I can't answer it now but Mr. Kenney asked me the same question, and we will be getting you the dates on which these 2980 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET orders.

Okay, I apologize I didn't hear that question.

That's all right.

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. We have with us today Thomas Doyle, President of Local 1201. Mr. Doyle, would you mind taking the witness table. (Mr. Doyle comes forward.)

Please identify yourself for the record.

My name's Thomas Doyle, I'm the President of Local 1201 School Employees.

Mr. Doyle, you apparently heard a child testifying at one of our public hearings that his teacher had to make a choice of either buying books or sports uniforms. Can you address that issue for us, please.

Yes. In reality, the school -- the uniforms for sports programs in the City of Philadelphia --

I'm sorry, 2981 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET you're going to have to pull the microphone closer to you; my colleagues can't hear you.

I'm sorry. The uniforms for junior varsity sports program in the School District of Philadelphia is paid for solely by Local 1201. We've been paying for these uniforms since the 1993-'94 school year. I dropped some paperwork off to your office yesterday, and I don't know if it has been --

It has been distributed to everyone.

Thank you, I appreciate that. And if you go through them for the last five or six years, you will see schools listed -- Central, Dobbins, Edison, Lincoln, Northeast, Olney -- and then you go to, for example, 1994 officials fees, we pay not only for the uniforms, but we pay for the coaches, assistant coaches, the athletic trainers, referees, the umpires. All of that comes out in lieu of contractual increases for Local 1201. So we ask that it be made very clear to City Council and to the people of Philadelphia 2982 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET that 1201 pays for this. If it wasn't for Local 1201, there would be no junior variety sport program. If there's no JV sports program, I doubt very much if there's a senior program; and, therefore, a lot of children who are in college today on sports scholarships can thank Local 1201 for that. And we wanted to make that perfectly clear that we've been doing this since the 1993-'94 school year.

Well, I don't think any of us had knowledge of that, and I certainly want to applaud you and your local for your generosity to the school children. I think that's absolutely wonderful. Tell me, what does your local do?

We are the school aides and bus attendants who ride the buses every day and work in the classrooms with students. We are the bus drivers who safely transport the children to and from school every day. We're the maintenance mechanics that do the repairs in the School District of Philadelphia. We're the building engineers, the licensed building engineers in every school in the District of Philadelphia. And 2983 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET we're the cleaning force in the School District of Philadelphia in every school. And also warehouse personnel and design and construction inspectors.

There has been a decrease, has there not, for bus attendants?

Yes, there has. And thank you for bringing it up; it's a major issue with us. I also distributed some information yesterday. And the School District over the past years has been issuing information about the amount of incidents on school buses.

Now, who are they referred to? When there's an incident on the school bus, is that referred to the cluster leader, is it referred to the principal? Who receives those reports?

Initially, it's supposed to be referred to the principal or a principal's designee who would handle that at the school location. An incident report can consist of something as minor as a child, a student chewing gum on the bus -- which is against the law basically, 'cause if there's an accident, there's a choking problem -- to assaults, and not only 2984 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET physical assaults but sexual assaults.

On the bus?

Not only on other students, but on our personnel.

We're talking about on a bus?

Yes.

How many such incidents have occurred?

Well, this stack I have here in front of me today, it's approximately 400 to 500 incidents. This has been primarily since the beginning of this present school year. And the overwhelming majority of these incidents that are written up here are just from the North Cluster, primarily the schools that are up in the Northeast. These are primarily La Brum, Rush, Fitzpatrick, Loesche, Mann, Fox Chase, Franklin Elementary, J.H. Moore. And there's others in there, but that's only from that North Cluster. These types of incidents occur every day in the West Cluster, the South Cluster, the East Cluster, and area X. We have a thousand buses that are driven by our personnel and 2985 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET contract employees, a thousand buses on the street every day. Now, these incidents occur over and over and over and over. And the School District's position is that they can no longer afford school aides and bus attendants. It is our position that it's not a monetary issue any longer; it's a safety issue. Children are being assaulted, employees are being assaulted, people are being hurt. These incidents occur over and over and over. And the parents of the school children in the City of Philadelphia have to come to the realization that they cannot allow this to continue to happen.

Now, do we presently have bus aides or this very all been removed?

No, we have bus aides currently in the system. Some of information I handed out yesterday indicates there will be cuts, further cuts. Another 42 cuts will be made in the upcoming school year. And if I can read this letter to you --

Well, before 2986 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET you do that, how many aides do we actually have on how many buses?

Right now, there's approximately 400 to 450. And there's over 1,000 routes, 1,000 buses.

And how many were there two years ago, let's say?

When the cuts originally started being made in the '94 school year, there was 600 or more.

You know, in reviewing the documents, it shows that in 1995 through 1996, when there were 182 behavioral problems referred for action, 1997 through 1998, there were 477 referrals.

Mm-hmm.

This is an increase -- it's increased by 162 percent.

Correct.

How can we justify decreasing 102 positions or 101 positions and allowing children not to be safe on the buses? I'd like you to tell me what -- if you know, what happens when there is an incident on a 2987 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET bus and it's referred to the principal?

If an incident occurs on the bus, either the bus attendant, the aide or the driver is supposed to write up an incident report, something like this. And then they turn it over to the principal or the principal's designee. At that point, the principal is supposed to look into the situation, hopefully resolve it one way or the other, and refer that incident report to the Transportation Division. It is our understanding that they are not reporting these incidents to the Transportation Division. Every incident report that I have here today came from our employees. They made duplicates of the incident reports and got them back to us. And as I said, there's only 10 or 12 schools in here. You have 259, and every one of them has buses going to it every day. So either it's not being followed through on the administrative end or they're being squashed at some level. And when that happens, I believe that the parents and the students of the City of Philadelphia are being misled. It's a dangerous situation, and, as I said, it's not a 2988 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET monetary issue; it's a safety issue. This particular one I have here, and as you can see, there's a large black blot in the corner of it, that is the clump of hair that was ripped out of a bus attendant's head by a student. They actually put it in a Xerox copy, and when they got it to us, that's her hair.

And what happened to the student?

I have a report here, but it doesn't have a final determination.

And when did this happen?

This particular case happened 11/23/98. (Reading from report.) And it took at least five minutes for four of us to get him off of the right side of my head. He then grabbed my hair on the left side, went from one side to the other. It goes on and on and on. We have a case here. (Reading.) Older student tricked younger student to follow her to the back of the bus. Two male students were in the back seat. 2989 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET The youngest male had his pants opened. As the two female students approached the older male --

How old are the children that you're referring to?

I don't have ages on this particular incident report, but I would venture to say, if I remember correctly, they were between the ages of and 15. 10 There's six students listed on here. 11 And it goes further. (Reading.) The female 12 students began -- the younger male student pulled down his pants, thus exposing himself to the female students. When the youngest of the female students began to protest and try to return to her seat in the front, the older female student grabbed her hand and tried to make her touch the male's penis. When we arrived at Front and Godfrey and the three students were exiting the bus, the youngest female student called them all "a-holes." I asked them what had gone on. . . And it goes on and describes what happened. But these --

And what action was taken on the youngsters that were on 2990 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET the bus that day? Does your report indicate that?

Well, it doesn't indicate what the final analysis is.

Would your report indicate what action was taken?

No, other than the report from our attendant.

So you don't know what if any action was taken.

We don't know we don't what the final outcome was, no. And that's the case -- most of the time, as far as the union's concerned, we do get reports when our members get them to us 'cause we don't receive 'em from the administration or the Transportation Department on the outcome. We do get reports from some of our members when they were able to get a final result where a student was taken off of a bus maybe for a week, two weeks, the remainder of the school year. I mean, it does happen. The problem is, it doesn't happen often enough. And, as I said, this is an example of one north region -- and this is 2991 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET not all of 'em; these are just the ones that we were able to get our hands on. I have films in the office that we have to review of incidents on buses -- assaults, fights. And we're going to do that, and if necessary, we'll make copies and get them to Council. This has to stop, it cannot continue to go on. If the ladies and gentlemen present here today remember, not too long, there was a bus driver that took a couple dozen children on a ride through hell from the Chestnut Hill area all the way down to the airport with running stop signs, red lights. There was no bus attendant on his bus that day; there was one scheduled to be but there wasn't one that day 'cause she had a death in the family. Finally, the kids were literally jumping out the windows till the police finally pulled him over, and that gentleman was arrested. It was all over the newspapers and the news. I will say that he was not a 1201 driver; he was a contracted driver. And they bring in contractor drivers at 5.15 an hour. They show 'em a CDL and they put 'em to work. 2992 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET The School District keeps telling us that it's a monetary issue, they don't have the funds, they don't have the funds. And yet from last June's board meeting (reading), resolved that the School District of Philadelphia exercise its option to use additional bus attendants supplied by City Cab Company for the school year '97-'98 to the tune of $447,199. Attendants -- the District required Robinson Bus Service $75,000 to $73,000. Robinson Bus Service, $29,000, $29,000. School District -- Robinson Bus Service, they got $29,186. They're telling us that we don't need bus attendants on our bus routes that our folks are on, and yet they're allocating more money for contracted buses to have bus attendants. For the life of me, I don't understand it. And our position is, you can't talk out of both sides of your mouth. You can't say we're going to cut the bus attendants that are members of Local 1201 but we're going to allocate more money for bus attendants with contractor drivers. We think it's unfair, we think these people do not receive the training. 2993 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

It certainly doesn't sound very safe either.

It isn't safe, and that's the issue. And as I said, there's a thousand buses on the street every day, every day. And these incidents occur every day, day after day after day, and someone's going to wind up getting killed sooner or later. We've had accidents in the past, not since we've been on, but there have been accidents in the past where drivers have been hit in the back of the head with a book, okay? When the change of the season, the acorns fall, they bring the acorns on the bus, throw 'em at the back of their heads as the guy's driving, you know. And this is what happens when you don't have an attendant on the bus. And they not only ride on the bus, but as a letter from Mr. Lombardi, who's the Transportation Administrator, to all the principals, it says (reading): Unfortunately, school aides and bus attendants also spend part of their working days assisting in schools. They will no longer be 2994 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET available to serve in this capacity. Please advise parents of these changes for next year. A detailed list of the affected routes is attached. So it's not only just on the school buses; they physically go into the buildings and help in the classrooms. Our bus attendants literally, actually, every year, they have an opportunity to bid for a route. And in the bid process, they try to get routes over the years closer to home so they don't have to travel so far. In that way, they get to know the children very well. A lot of our bus attendants work out of their own neighborhoods, and they know the situations that a lot of these students come from. And, unfortunately, a lot of our students in the School District comes from situations that are not very healthy. Our attendants and drivers and school aides literally get on the bus in the morning in many cases and feed these children before they get to school; they take food out of their own homes, money out of their own pocket to buy for these children so they could have something to eat when they get on the bus in the 2995 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET morning because of the terrible situations that they come from. And we just feel it's completely unfair to the students, it's totally unfair to the parents, and they don't even know about it, that this goes on, and it should be rectified by reducing -- by eliminating the cuts and eliminating contract buses.

Mr. Doyle, when were the cuts made?

They've been making cuts over about approximately the last five or six years, and it's continuing. And most of the cuts are being made through attrition, but sooner or later, there's no attrition, then everybody's gone, and all you have is contracted drivers at $5.15 hour minimum wage and bus attendants that they bring in for maybe $40 a day -- no training, they hire them right off the streets. Our folks have police background checks; we don't know if this occurs with these folks. Our members have to have a chest X-ray for tuberculosis or whatever, you know, they may possibly be able to contract. Our employees are 2996 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET long-term, good employees. They come in every day, they're aware of the children, they're aware of the situations that they come from. We have two bus attendant, Bonnie and Denise. They make $12,537 a year, that's their salary, 12,537. That's not a living wage. And yet, we feel that the District wants to cut -- they have to make their cuts, and they're going to save money on the backs of the lowest paid people in the School District of Philadelphia.

What do the aides make?

They range --

The bus aides.

That's what I said, the bus attendants and school aides.

And what do the drivers make?

The drivers, part-time drivers make from 15,000 to 17,000. And our attendants and school aides can range from 12.5 to approximately 15-something.

The Chair 2997 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. $12,500 is the average salary, you say, for aides and attendants?

Yes.

I'm trying to figure out the math at 5.15 an hour, what's the differential between that, and this is on a 20-hour week, 40-hour week basis? What is it?

hours a week. 13

It's 25 hours a 14 week. The number of members in your local is -- 15

We have 4300 members. 16

But the number of 17 members in your local that are Philadelphia School 18 District employees, I should say. 19

It's 4300. 20

4300. 21

Yeah -- well, about a 22 little less than 4200. We have two sister locals 23 -- one in Bensalem and one in Upper Moreland, and 24 that makes up about 120 people combined. 25

Okay, so it's 2998 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET about --

It's about 4,200.

And they're made up of part-time and full-time positions?

That's correct.

The contributions that your local has made -- and by the way, I wanted to commend you on that. I think it's very admirable that you're putting -- your members are putting money back into the community.

Thank you.

How did you get to that money? Is that part of the dues? Is that fund-raising?

It's part of the contractual agreement. In lieu of a percentage increase, we fund it back into the sports program. And $400,000 comes out to approximately about a half a percent of an increase for our bargaining unit.

The contractual agreement between the Local and the District?

Yes.

Interesting. 2999 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Have any of your members that you know of who are in the Philadelphia school system been a part of that ad hoc pay raise that has just been given out by the School District?

Any of our members?

Yes.

No. We had a contractual increase, but the one that I believe you're referring to, we were not part of.

To get back to the level of 600-plus attendants and aides that we were around 1994, do you know what the value of that would be, what it would cost us to get back to that number?

I didn't come prepared to answer that question, but I could get it to you shortly, if need be. At 12,500 -- well, it's 12,500 times 150 people.

So it's --

So you're talking $120,000, 4150,000?

No, a little bit more than that. Charlie? 1.200 people at 12,000 is 3000 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET what, 2.4, 2.5 million.

Less than that?

1.5 million?

There's a benefits package as well.

Well, just on the salary end, it's a little more than the ad hoc bonuses that were just given out by the School District, right?

I'm sorry, go ahead. Repeat that because 'cause I didn't hear you.

My question was, how much money would it take for us to get back to the 600 level that we were at back in 1994? The estimation is around 1.5 million or so. And I said it's a little bit more than a half a million dollars over what the ad hoc bonuses were that the District just gave out to employees who probably -- I'm guessing -- are not a part of this contractual agreement that they have to give anything back.

They are, they absolutely are a part of that. They give back -- every 3001 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET member of this bargaining unit would get --

No, I'm speaking about the people who may have received raises who are probably non-Philadelphia residents. By the way, do you know, of the 4300 or 4,000 members of your local who are with the Philadelphia School District, how many of them are Philadelphia residents, by any chance?

I believe the most recent figures that we have, we have about 60 to 70 members of our bargaining unit that live outside the City of Philadelphia; all the rest of them are Philadelphia residents. They can't afford to live outside the city, I guess.

Well. . . I guess you're right about that. I don't have any other questions, Madam President.

Council President, if I could say one other thing. This last contract that we're living under right here, we have an arbitration case ongoing right now, we're waiting for a decision. Under sworn testimony from School 3002 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET District employees, School District personnel administrators, in the persons of Mr. Mark Specter, who used to be the financial head for the School District, and there's still a member who's still on board, Mr. Meyers. At the testimony, under questions from our lawyers, one of our lawyers at the arbitration hearing, their sworn testimony was this last contract, which was effective September 1, 1995 and expires August 1, 1999, the entire expenditure to fund this contract for all 4300 members was $14 million.

It was what?

$14 million. What it comes out to is 3/4 of percent a year for years. This is what we had -- this is -- maybe this is why I got voted into office, I don't know. But it was $14 million total, which is 1/10th of percent of the entire budget, I would imagine.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam Chair. 3003 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET I'm sorry, it's Mr. Doyle, right?

Yes.

Okay. Mr. Doyle, I was, I guess, equally surprised -- although at some level, I guess, pleasantly surprised to at least hear the efforts of Local 1201 with regard to the athletic resource support that you provide to the School District. I seem to remember somewhere a number of years ago, there was kind of a landmark contract negotiation with 1201 and some savings that came out of that contract, and I guess at the time, I knew that a number of things were being supported by those savings, and if athletic activities was one of them, it definitely clearly got past me. Can you very briefly, though, explain how that came about and why this is -- why is a local union whose employees work for the School District, how do you end up helping to support athletic programs run by the District? That is a little perplexing to me.

I wasn't personally involved in those negotiations; I can only speak 3004 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET from what I think occurred. And part of the agreement at that time was to get some -- JV sports was going to be eliminated.

All right, I remember that.

And to save that, in a gesture from Local 1201, they agreed in negotiations to give $400,000 a year every year to fund the sports program.

That was at the same time out of that, do I maybe recollect, that the Board President at that time was Rotan Lee?

I believe so, yes.

And that Mr. Lee and a number of other people were going to look to, I believe, maybe our professional sports teams and other possible donors. This was at the time of the proposed elimination of JV sports.

Yes, that's correct.

And as a result of that, they were going to try to seek outside funding, I believe --

Yes, from the Philadelphia Eagles, the Phillies, the Sixers, the Flyers, and 3005 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET other bargaining units in the School District of Philadelphia.

Okay. And do you briefly any idea of what ever happened with any of those?

No one mentioned -- no one that I know mentioned -- let me put it this way: we are the only bargaining unit that contributes, and no other outside entities contribute to the sports program.

Okay. I'll have some other questions for the District on that. With regard to the bus issues and the bus attendant issue, if I recall your testimony, you're basically saying that the private-contract bus companies, the District is paying additional dollars to have attendants on those buses but taking them off the 1201 buses. And are your buses also the ones that we heard about maybe two weeks ago that have video cameras on them? Well, some actually have cameras, some don't.

Some do and some don't, yeah.

Right, is that the 3006 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET situation?

Yes. They're taking them off de-seg. buses and -- I'm sorry.

I have an additional question. Is a part of this discussion issues that will be subject to collective bargaining?

Yes.

Attendants, no 11 attendants, how many all of that? I mean, it's a function of money in the contract; is that correct?

Correct.

Okay, all right. I think for that part, Madam Chair, that's all I'd like to talk to Mr. Doyle about. I would like to go back at the appropriate time to talk to Dr. Hornbeck or other appropriate School District people about the sports issue.

Thank you. Mr. Doyle?

Yes ma'am.

Did I understand you to say that we had 600 aides in 3007 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET 1994?

I believe that's an accurate figure, yes.

And today, you're saying that we have 400 --

We're under 450; it's probably closer to 400 than 450.

Well, I'm looking at the school budget. Bus drivers and attendants, 636. And the appropriation is for $12,272,000. That's on of the Operating Budget.

Regrettably, the other paperwork that I have from the Transportation Division verifying the daily numbers of bus attendants, I don't have here, but that would verify the figures that I gave you of approximately 400 to 450.

And how many bus drivers did you say were --

Right now, we have about 530, maybe 550.

And is special ed. also included in that figure? 3008 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

Yes, M.H. -- handicap, multiple handicap, special ed., yes, they're included in that.

Okay. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Thank you, Madam President. Is there any kind of electronic equipment that is available to the aides on the buses -- cellular phones, communications between or anything like that?

None whatsoever.

Was there ever a time when you had anything like that?

Not that I'm aware of, and I have years with the system. 18

Councilman, 19 correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like we're 20 singing the same old songs. Didn't you ask this 21 question last year about the cameras and if we 22 were going to be looking into them and it's much 23 cheaper to install them? Am I correct? 24

I think it may 25 have even been this year when we had the hearings. 3009 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

And I think you did mention that last year.

Last year, and we talked about how the cost was a very minimal cost.

Very nominal.

Right, a very minimal cost. If we do it on a larger scale, it brings the cost down.

And that's probably true that the cost is much lower. The problem is, looking at a tape of an incident that happened on the bus after it occurred is like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.

That was going to be my question, then I'll yield to Councilman Nutter for a minute.

Thank you, Councilman,. Mr. Doyle, I'm sorry, did you say that there are no communication devices on the buses?

The drivers have a radio, but I believe Mr. DiCicco said to contact the police, yeah. 3010 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

So they can contact on the radio --

There's a radio on the bus, the driver can contact a dispatcher, and the dispatcher can relay something, yeah, but not cell phones or --

So if something happens on the bus, the child falls out, asthma attack, anything, falls, hits their head or something, he may not be able to call 9-1-1 immediately but you can at least reach the dispatch office.

Yes.

They would call 9-1-1, report the location --

That is true.

Okay, all right, fine.

If I was misleading in that statement, I apologize, I didn't mean to.

Okay, no problem. I would be very concerned if there were no 24 communication device at all.

Yeah. All buses have 3011 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET radios as far as I'm aware of, yes.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like, Mr. Doyle, to your testimony?

No, just that I feel that this bargaining unit in the past has made tremendous sacrifices. In fact, it's even on of this contract book that this bargaining unit has suffered tremendous losses in the past. And we just feel that it's necessary now for this bargaining unit to let City Council know, the Mayor know, and the parents of the children of the School District of Philadelphia and parents throughout the City of Philadelphia that it's no longer business as usual. We can't allow to continue to happen what happens every day on these buses. And as I said, with these 4 or 500 incidents, which is just a partial amount of what's happened since the school year has started, it behooves us to try to educate people to let 'em know what is going on. And that it's not one way, it's not just what the administration is trying to 3012 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET present, that there are other sides to every coin. And we want people to be aware of this, that we're doing it to make people conscious of the fact that this is going on, that it has to stop, 'cause sooner or later, it's getting to the point where we feel something dramatic is really going to happen, where there's going to be a major accident and, God forbid, something terrible happens with a bus load of kids. It just has to stop, and cutting additional help at the salary that they make is not going to resolve any problems, it's not going to help anything. If anything, it's going to ascerbate (sic) it, and it's just going to get worse and worse and worse. And people have to be made aware of it 'cause right now, we don't believe that they are. And somehow, some way, we have to let the parents know, and that's why I'm here today, and I appreciate you inviting me down here.

Thank you. Councilman DiCicco would like to ask you a question. 3013 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

One quick questions. On buses that have cameras installed, do they act as a deterrent? And, obviously, there's no such thing as a cure-all, but do they act as a deterrent, and do you have any statistics that may indicate that there are less incidents on buses that have cameras as opposed to buses that do not have cameras?

We do not have any statistics, I don't know if the Board has them or not. Obviously, I haven't requested statistics on that matter. I don't know if they do have numbers that would indicate that, but personal opinion, they see a camera up there, I don't think it makes any difference to 'em whatsoever.

Could it be because -- and I think this was testified to, that not every bus that has a box actually has a camera in it.

That's true also. Some do; like I said before, some do, some don't.

From your experience, again, understanding that this is not 3014 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET a cure-all for incidents to happen, but if every bus were to have a camera and it was understood and everyone realized that every bus had a camera on it, and it wasn't, Well, maybe there's one on there or maybe not, do you think that would be helpful?

Well, like I said, I believe you're closing the barn door after the horse is gone. I don't think there's anything like having an additional body on the bus 'cause cameras can't control children.

Let me go back. I am not suggesting that cameras take the place of personnel.

Thank you.

I am saying with personnel and cameras, would that be helpful?

I think so, yes.

Okay.

I'm rather curious. Of the incident reports that you have in your possession at the present time, how many of the buses had aides on them?

Some that -- well, 3015 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET obviously, like the one that had her hair ripped out, she was obviously on that bus. We don't have a breakdown of --

I'm sorry, you're going to have to repeat what you said. Obviously, what?

Obviously, the one that had the clump of hair in it, that was an attendant that was on that bus, but we don't have a breakdown on how many routes had buses and how many didn't have buses.

How many routes had buses?

We would have to get statistics from the driver on what route, what particular route has an attendant and what route doesn't have an attendant. We don't have that at this time.

You mean you wouldn't know what buses have aides on them? I thought they came under your --

As I said, there's a thousand different routes, and not all of them have not all of them have bus attendants on 'em. 3016 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Not all of 'em are 1201 routes, a lot of 'em are contracted routes, so we just -- right now, I just don't have those figures.

So the incident reports that you have before you are necessarily not your routes; is that what you're saying?

Pardon me?

Or are they your routes? The incident reports that you brought in with you --

Yes.

Are they your routes? Or are they --

Well, 99 percent of these incident --

Or are they also the contracted --

Like I said, 99 percent of incident reports here are our routes. There are some in there that are Atlantic Express. Now, it could be that that Atlantic Express route has a 1201 bus attendant on it also. Some of our attendants do go on contracted buses. 3017 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET But as far as we can ascertain, every one here is a School District route. We don't get copies of incidents from the contracted buses. There are a few in here that we were able to get, but in general, practices -- well, like I said, we don't get these anyway; our folks have to literally sneak into a Xerox room and make a copy of it and get it to us. That's what happens, 'cause once it's gone from them, it's out of sight, out of mind.

So who actually fills out those forms; is it the aide or is the bus driver?

The attendant, the aide or the bus driver may do it, depending on who handled the incident.

So, in fact, there were aides on these buses when the incidents occurred?

There are occasions when it happens. Like I said, the one with the clump of hair torn out, she was on that bus.

You told me that but how about the others? Were their aides 3018 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET on those?

Not aides, the attendants, the bus attendants. There are attendants on buses where incidents occur. Obviously, an attendant has to be on that bus to write up the incident; it's not just the driver that writes them up, the attendants do also.

Are there any other questions of Mr. Doyle? (No further questions for Mr. Doyle at this time.)

Is there anyone else to testify on these issues? (No response.)

Mr. Hornbeck, do you mind just coming up for a half a second, please.

Sure.

Would you like me to stay or leave.

No, you can leave or stay.

Okay, thank you very much for the opportunity of coming. 3019 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET (Dr. Hornbeck returns to the witness table.)

You were here to hear Mr. Doyle's presentation?

Yes.

I'll tell you, I feel like we're going around in a circle. We address the book problem, now we're talking about the attendants of buses, bus attendants. I just could not imagine my child going on a bus with some of the incidents that have occurred that were described to us. I don't know what I would do as a parent. I mean, what happens once those reports are filed? Can you tell me what happens? Who are they referred to?

The principal.

And what action -- what does the principal do?

Well, it depends on the incident. As Mr. Doyle testified, some involve chewing gum and others include assault. The person obviously chewing gum obviously is not treated as strongly as the one who committed an assault, and there will be people who experience 3020 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET up to and including expulsion from school.

So that the principal doesn't make that decision. Does it have to go before the --

Not an expulsion decision.

Expulsion, it does?

No, I said that it does not.

It does not. Wouldn't it have to go before the Board?

For expulsion.

Right.

But most incidents that occur on buses are not expulsion incidents. And there are many that are in fact within the disciplinary purview of the principal; in fact, the vast majority would be.

Well, the one issue where a child pulled down his pants, I mean, what happens in a case like that?

I can't answer in that particular one. I mean, we could probably track 3021 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET it down.

Or if somebody pulls out a clump of your hair?

I think it's outrageous and it would be a kind of incident that would be dealt with severely, but I don't know those particular instances.

What is your position, having heard what occurs on the buses and that we have less attendants on the buses today than we did in 1994?

I support that.

You support the --

The reduction in attendance, yes. There was a fair amount -- just like the little exchange about cell phones that left the impression that there was no way to communicate with anyone, there were several things left out. One was that when we began to reduce attendants at the Recommendation of the management and Productivity Committee of the Greater Philadelphia First, and I think interestingly, given your interest in it, I think that was also a 3022 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET recommendation in the Price Waterhouse report.

It was.

And so we looked at that, and our initial reaction was, Gosh, maybe that would save money, but it's not a real good idea. And so we went and surveyed the other big cities in the country, and we discovered we were the only ones in the United States that had bus attendants, and we discovered that the safety record was not different in Philadelphia basically from other places. There was no discernible impact of having those aides. And so, in response to these recommendations, we began to reduce them. And as Mr. Doyle testified, we've reduced a couple of hundred at this point. The first year we reduced them, the incidents went down on the buses. The second year, they went up a little bit. And for those two years, the incident count seemed to confirm that the presence or the absence of attendants doesn't seem to change the safety record, nor the incident report. And that's kind of underlined by even the example that Mr. Doyle happened to use wherein the incident 3023 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET that he held up for you happened to be a route on which there was an attendant, and it happened to be attendant that was the object of the attack. That doesn't make the attack any less reprehensible; it absolutely is. The only point is, does the presence of an attendant increase, decrease, or not change the safety record and the incident record? And it appears to be the case from the facts both in Philadelphia and in other places around the country that it does not. Given that, if we're going to have basically the same safety record and basically the same incident record and we can save $2 million, $2.5 million, I think Price Waterhouse and Greater Philadelphia First and we all concluded that that was the wise course to take.

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Superintendent, I certainly do not expect you to know details of the one fairly graphic incident that was reported to us this 3024 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET afternoon. Notwithstanding that, and I have not had a chance to look at the documentation or the incident report, but I think in a non -- not necessarily in a public forum, I do not know after today, whether you will be back before us in a public forum, but I think certainly by way of an appropriately sanitized response, I would in fact like to know what happened with that particular student.

Okay.

I'd like to know what school they were going to when this incident happened, I would like to know whether anyone was charged with anything or any other disciplinary action taken by the District or by police authorities. And lastly, I'd like to know if the student's in the same school, in another school, or has been expelled from the School District of Philadelphia completely.

Are you referring to the incident of pulling the pants down?

Pulling the pants down, touching, and all that.

If I could ask Mr. Doyle 3025 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET to leave with us that particular report so that we have a way of tracking it down, we'd be glad to provide you with, as you put it, a sanitized version.

Yes, I would like to know what happened in that situation. What I would like to talk to you about, though, is this issue with regard to -- and I've acknowledged the efforts of Local 1201 and I do recall this landmark contract providing some additional savings. I will say to you, though, that I again was somewhat surprised -- or maybe it's a failing memory -- that they are providing these funds for the District to run athletic programs. Now, is there an office or a division of athletics in the School District? I couldn't --

Yes.

-- easily discern a tab for that group. Are they athletic dollars spread out through the senior high school budget, the middle school budget, and the elementary school budget? I mean, there is a separate department? And is it within the budget book 3026 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET here?

There -- I can't cite the page, but there is a Director of Athletics. Her name is Linda Magee.

Right, I've seen that from the letters here. Do you have any idea what the budget is for that particular unit of the School District?

I do not, Councilman Nutter. I do know that 1201 for now about four or five years has given us those funds, and we are really grateful to them for it.

If you don't know the actual budget of athletics, the 460-some-odd thousand dollars, either this year or next year, is that a significant portion of the budget for athletics throughout the School District, or is --

It's a significant part of the JV budget.

The JV budget. So we fully fund the, I guess, varsity sports in the School District?

I can't break it down for you; I'll be glad to send that to you but I 3027 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET can't do that here. But as far as I know, on a system-wide basis, Local 1201 has been the only entity that has contributed funds. The testimony with respect to Mr. Lee's efforts to secure funds from sports teams, which happened just before I came here, did not work out.

Right.

And then we went through a period of time over the next year or two where JV sports became one of the things that was constantly on the cutting block.

On the block, right.

And, in fact, the young lady who was the student council representative to the Board at the time made that her issue. And the Board, in that period before Council and the Mayor and we started taking our no-cut policy, each year cut sports and each year restored sports, and 1201's contribution was a part of that.

Well, I'm sure to the extent that we can keep 1201 doing what 3028 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET they're doing, we certainly want to encourage it, but I guess the thought occurs to me, and I would say for the record here that, I mean, it is somewhat stunning, if not ironic and possibly insulting that, you know, behind the scenes for the moment and soon to be out in full public, there will be a tremendous amount of discussion for the funding and construction of over half a billion dollars worth of stadiums here in Philadelphia, while at the same time, we are having difficulty struggle to fund high school sports activities, and those two things do not make sense. And so I think in any discussion about the professional teams, we will certainly have to raise the issue about our high school sports programs in that context of that discussion.

I, of course, concur in the notion that our priorities in this state are seriously out of whack -- having nothing to do or limited to stadiums. But there is an interesting just sort of coincidental connection between expenditures for sports and expenditures for sports stadiums. I understand the connection. 3029 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

I appreciate the information.

Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No further questions for Dr. Hornbeck at this time.)

Is there anyone else to testify? Do you want to take a seat please. (Bonnie Brooks comes forward).

Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

My name is Bonnie Brooks, and I'm a School Aide I for a Philadelphia School Board. I ride a de-seg. bus, I also work inside the building. What has not been made clear here is that incident reports and pink slips that are written up on kids go inside the buildings, and that's where they're left. They never get to 3030 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Transportation or downtown anywhere; they go inside. And if a kid -- if something happens to a kid, a fight or anything to that effect, it goes inside the building. They may give the kid a lunch detention, they may not do anything. It sits in a drawer somewhere. Along with the fact, all the incident reports that my president offered today are from buses that don't have aides on them. That bus has anywhere from 40 to 60 children on it. There is no way, shape or form that that driver can come down the road with that many kid and bring 'em in safe without having someone there with them. Along with the fact that once we step off the buses and go inside the buildings, we now become classroom assistants. We are MTAs, we are the security. And once they pull us off of these buses, that's a body that will not be in that building. So that's less security that the children have. I can't believe that they can allow this to happen and say that these children are coming in safe. 3031 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET As far as the cameras go, yeah, they have cameras, they have boxes. There aren't any cameras in there. For every garage out here, there may be two cameras. I come out of a garage called Passyunk -- there's more than 300 buses in that garage and only 2 real cameras. There's been incidents where if a fight breaks out, the driver cannot stop in the middle of the boulevard and stop these children from fighting so somebody's beat to death by the time he gets to the side, pull it over and then go back and try to settle the kids down. So I can't for the life of me understand where they're saying that our jobs are not important. Now, they came up with cluster leaders, trainers for clusters. They make way more than we make, but we're not important. And we're the ones with the kids every day. I spend more time with the kids then the principal or a teacher. I get up at -- I'm on the bus at 7 o'clock in the morning, and I'm not off of that bus again until quarter to 6. That's the end of my day every day, along with the 7 hours I put inside of a building for this small amount of money that I make. 3032 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET And I really want people to understand exactly what we do. They give you one piece. And every day, something goes on on these buses that don't have anybody on them. The kids is hanging out windows, there's people throwing things, all kinds of things going. You have to be there to see it, and a camera will not do it. It has to be another body along with that driver. And then along with the things that we do inside of the building, and I don't even know whether or not Mr. Hornbeck knows this I. Know we try to tell 'em.

We've heard of bus aides and bus attendants. Is there a difference or are they the same?

The difference is, the bus attendants basically ride the physically handicapped buses, for the most part. They get on buses with TMR children or children that are in wheelchairs. The school aide rides a de-seg. bus. These are the children that are bused all over the city from west Philly to Northeast, from Northeast back down to West Philly. Those buses have 40 to 60 kids on 'em. 3033 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET

The de-seg. buses?

Right, from grades 1 to 8th. And they ride anywhere from one hour to two hours before they even get to school.

Oh, my God, two hours?

Yeah, it could be that long. It is a long ride and it's a long day, and our responsibilities don't end once we get 'em off the buses. So when you look at pulling this person off the bus, okay, you solve one problem, but what happens to what we do when we get inside of the building? When I get inside the building, I do lunch detentions, I do hall duties. I even take care of the pink slips that come through. So I can tell you that 500 pink slips came in today, they went to their principal, and they sitting in the box, and nothing happens. Or maybe if you push hard enough and it gets bad enough, they might pull a kid off for one day, or they may give him a lunch detention. But they don't go anywhere. And he doesn't know that. 3034 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET And I think that if the parents knew exactly what happens, that they would figure out a way to keep us all there instead of sending us someplace else or not having us at all, or no job, period.

Do you think parents are aware?

Some of 'em. Some are, some aren't.

Okay, thank you so much for coming in to testify. Mr. Doyle, you had your hand raised. Did you want to make a statement?