They've been making cuts over about approximately the last five or six years, and it's continuing. And most of the cuts are being made through attrition, but sooner or later, there's no attrition, then everybody's gone, and all you have is contracted drivers at $5.15 hour minimum wage and bus attendants that they bring in for maybe $40 a day -- no training, they hire them right off the streets. Our folks have police background checks; we don't know if this occurs with these folks. Our members have to have a chest X-ray for tuberculosis or whatever, you know, they may possibly be able to contract. Our employees are 2996 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET long-term, good employees. They come in every day, they're aware of the children, they're aware of the situations that they come from. We have two bus attendant, Bonnie and Denise. They make $12,537 a year, that's their salary, 12,537. That's not a living wage. And yet, we feel that the District wants to cut -- they have to make their cuts, and they're going to save money on the backs of the lowest paid people in the School District of Philadelphia.
The drivers, part-time drivers make from 15,000 to 17,000. And our attendants and school aides can range from 12.5 to approximately 15-something.
The Chair 2997 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. $12,500 is the average salary, you say, for aides and attendants?
I'm trying to figure out the math at 5.15 an hour, what's the differential between that, and this is on a 20-hour week, 40-hour week basis? What is it?
It's 25 hours a 14 week. The number of members in your local is -- 15
But the number of 17 members in your local that are Philadelphia School 18 District employees, I should say. 19
Yeah -- well, about a 22 little less than 4200. We have two sister locals 23 -- one in Bensalem and one in Upper Moreland, and 24 that makes up about 120 people combined. 25
Okay, so it's 2998 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET about --
And they're made up of part-time and full-time positions?
The contributions that your local has made -- and by the way, I wanted to commend you on that. I think it's very admirable that you're putting -- your members are putting money back into the community.
How did you get to that money? Is that part of the dues? Is that fund-raising?
It's part of the contractual agreement. In lieu of a percentage increase, we fund it back into the sports program. And $400,000 comes out to approximately about a half a percent of an increase for our bargaining unit.
The contractual agreement between the Local and the District?
Interesting. 2999 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Have any of your members that you know of who are in the Philadelphia school system been a part of that ad hoc pay raise that has just been given out by the School District?
No. We had a contractual increase, but the one that I believe you're referring to, we were not part of.
To get back to the level of 600-plus attendants and aides that we were around 1994, do you know what the value of that would be, what it would cost us to get back to that number?
I didn't come prepared to answer that question, but I could get it to you shortly, if need be. At 12,500 -- well, it's 12,500 times 150 people.
No, a little bit more than that. Charlie? 1.200 people at 12,000 is 3000 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET what, 2.4, 2.5 million.
Well, just on the salary end, it's a little more than the ad hoc bonuses that were just given out by the School District, right?
I'm sorry, go ahead. Repeat that because 'cause I didn't hear you.
My question was, how much money would it take for us to get back to the 600 level that we were at back in 1994? The estimation is around 1.5 million or so. And I said it's a little bit more than a half a million dollars over what the ad hoc bonuses were that the District just gave out to employees who probably -- I'm guessing -- are not a part of this contractual agreement that they have to give anything back.
They are, they absolutely are a part of that. They give back -- every 3001 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET member of this bargaining unit would get --
No, I'm speaking about the people who may have received raises who are probably non-Philadelphia residents. By the way, do you know, of the 4300 or 4,000 members of your local who are with the Philadelphia School District, how many of them are Philadelphia residents, by any chance?
I believe the most recent figures that we have, we have about 60 to 70 members of our bargaining unit that live outside the City of Philadelphia; all the rest of them are Philadelphia residents. They can't afford to live outside the city, I guess.
Well. . . I guess you're right about that. I don't have any other questions, Madam President.
Council President, if I could say one other thing. This last contract that we're living under right here, we have an arbitration case ongoing right now, we're waiting for a decision. Under sworn testimony from School 3002 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET District employees, School District personnel administrators, in the persons of Mr. Mark Specter, who used to be the financial head for the School District, and there's still a member who's still on board, Mr. Meyers. At the testimony, under questions from our lawyers, one of our lawyers at the arbitration hearing, their sworn testimony was this last contract, which was effective September 1, 1995 and expires August 1, 1999, the entire expenditure to fund this contract for all 4300 members was $14 million.
$14 million. What it comes out to is 3/4 of percent a year for years. This is what we had -- this is -- maybe this is why I got voted into office, I don't know. But it was $14 million total, which is 1/10th of percent of the entire budget, I would imagine.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 3003 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET I'm sorry, it's Mr. Doyle, right?
Okay. Mr. Doyle, I was, I guess, equally surprised -- although at some level, I guess, pleasantly surprised to at least hear the efforts of Local 1201 with regard to the athletic resource support that you provide to the School District. I seem to remember somewhere a number of years ago, there was kind of a landmark contract negotiation with 1201 and some savings that came out of that contract, and I guess at the time, I knew that a number of things were being supported by those savings, and if athletic activities was one of them, it definitely clearly got past me. Can you very briefly, though, explain how that came about and why this is -- why is a local union whose employees work for the School District, how do you end up helping to support athletic programs run by the District? That is a little perplexing to me.
I wasn't personally involved in those negotiations; I can only speak 3004 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET from what I think occurred. And part of the agreement at that time was to get some -- JV sports was going to be eliminated.
And to save that, in a gesture from Local 1201, they agreed in negotiations to give $400,000 a year every year to fund the sports program.
That was at the same time out of that, do I maybe recollect, that the Board President at that time was Rotan Lee?
And that Mr. Lee and a number of other people were going to look to, I believe, maybe our professional sports teams and other possible donors. This was at the time of the proposed elimination of JV sports.
And as a result of that, they were going to try to seek outside funding, I believe --
Yes, from the Philadelphia Eagles, the Phillies, the Sixers, the Flyers, and 3005 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET other bargaining units in the School District of Philadelphia.
Okay. And do you briefly any idea of what ever happened with any of those?
No one mentioned -- no one that I know mentioned -- let me put it this way: we are the only bargaining unit that contributes, and no other outside entities contribute to the sports program.
Okay. I'll have some other questions for the District on that. With regard to the bus issues and the bus attendant issue, if I recall your testimony, you're basically saying that the private-contract bus companies, the District is paying additional dollars to have attendants on those buses but taking them off the 1201 buses. And are your buses also the ones that we heard about maybe two weeks ago that have video cameras on them? Well, some actually have cameras, some don't.
Right, is that the 3006 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET situation?
I have an additional question. Is a part of this discussion issues that will be subject to collective bargaining?
Attendants, no 11 attendants, how many all of that? I mean, it's a function of money in the contract; is that correct?
Okay, all right. I think for that part, Madam Chair, that's all I'd like to talk to Mr. Doyle about. I would like to go back at the appropriate time to talk to Dr. Hornbeck or other appropriate School District people about the sports issue.
Did I understand you to say that we had 600 aides in 3007 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET 1994?
Well, I'm looking at the school budget. Bus drivers and attendants, 636. And the appropriation is for $12,272,000. That's on of the Operating Budget.
Regrettably, the other paperwork that I have from the Transportation Division verifying the daily numbers of bus attendants, I don't have here, but that would verify the figures that I gave you of approximately 400 to 450.
And is special ed. also included in that figure? 3008 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET
Yes, M.H. -- handicap, multiple handicap, special ed., yes, they're included in that.
Thank you, Madam President. Is there any kind of electronic equipment that is available to the aides on the buses -- cellular phones, communications between or anything like that?
Was there ever a time when you had anything like that?
Councilman, 19 correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like we're 20 singing the same old songs. Didn't you ask this 21 question last year about the cameras and if we 22 were going to be looking into them and it's much 23 cheaper to install them? Am I correct? 24
I think it may 25 have even been this year when we had the hearings. 3009 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET
Last year, and we talked about how the cost was a very minimal cost.
Right, a very minimal cost. If we do it on a larger scale, it brings the cost down.
And that's probably true that the cost is much lower. The problem is, looking at a tape of an incident that happened on the bus after it occurred is like closing the barn door after the horse is gone.
That was going to be my question, then I'll yield to Councilman Nutter for a minute.
Thank you, Councilman,. Mr. Doyle, I'm sorry, did you say that there are no communication devices on the buses?
The drivers have a radio, but I believe Mr. DiCicco said to contact the police, yeah. 3010 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET
There's a radio on the bus, the driver can contact a dispatcher, and the dispatcher can relay something, yeah, but not cell phones or --
So if something happens on the bus, the child falls out, asthma attack, anything, falls, hits their head or something, he may not be able to call 9-1-1 immediately but you can at least reach the dispatch office.
If I was misleading in that statement, I apologize, I didn't mean to.
Okay, no problem. I would be very concerned if there were no 24 communication device at all.
Yeah. All buses have 3011 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET radios as far as I'm aware of, yes.
Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like, Mr. Doyle, to your testimony?
No, just that I feel that this bargaining unit in the past has made tremendous sacrifices. In fact, it's even on of this contract book that this bargaining unit has suffered tremendous losses in the past. And we just feel that it's necessary now for this bargaining unit to let City Council know, the Mayor know, and the parents of the children of the School District of Philadelphia and parents throughout the City of Philadelphia that it's no longer business as usual. We can't allow to continue to happen what happens every day on these buses. And as I said, with these 4 or 500 incidents, which is just a partial amount of what's happened since the school year has started, it behooves us to try to educate people to let 'em know what is going on. And that it's not one way, it's not just what the administration is trying to 3012 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET present, that there are other sides to every coin. And we want people to be aware of this, that we're doing it to make people conscious of the fact that this is going on, that it has to stop, 'cause sooner or later, it's getting to the point where we feel something dramatic is really going to happen, where there's going to be a major accident and, God forbid, something terrible happens with a bus load of kids. It just has to stop, and cutting additional help at the salary that they make is not going to resolve any problems, it's not going to help anything. If anything, it's going to ascerbate (sic) it, and it's just going to get worse and worse and worse. And people have to be made aware of it 'cause right now, we don't believe that they are. And somehow, some way, we have to let the parents know, and that's why I'm here today, and I appreciate you inviting me down here.
Thank you. Councilman DiCicco would like to ask you a question. 3013 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET
One quick questions. On buses that have cameras installed, do they act as a deterrent? And, obviously, there's no such thing as a cure-all, but do they act as a deterrent, and do you have any statistics that may indicate that there are less incidents on buses that have cameras as opposed to buses that do not have cameras?
We do not have any statistics, I don't know if the Board has them or not. Obviously, I haven't requested statistics on that matter. I don't know if they do have numbers that would indicate that, but personal opinion, they see a camera up there, I don't think it makes any difference to 'em whatsoever.
Could it be because -- and I think this was testified to, that not every bus that has a box actually has a camera in it.
That's true also. Some do; like I said before, some do, some don't.
From your experience, again, understanding that this is not 3014 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET a cure-all for incidents to happen, but if every bus were to have a camera and it was understood and everyone realized that every bus had a camera on it, and it wasn't, Well, maybe there's one on there or maybe not, do you think that would be helpful?
Well, like I said, I believe you're closing the barn door after the horse is gone. I don't think there's anything like having an additional body on the bus 'cause cameras can't control children.
Let me go back. I am not suggesting that cameras take the place of personnel.
I am saying with personnel and cameras, would that be helpful?
I'm rather curious. Of the incident reports that you have in your possession at the present time, how many of the buses had aides on them?
Some that -- well, 3015 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET obviously, like the one that had her hair ripped out, she was obviously on that bus. We don't have a breakdown of --
I'm sorry, you're going to have to repeat what you said. Obviously, what?
Obviously, the one that had the clump of hair in it, that was an attendant that was on that bus, but we don't have a breakdown on how many routes had buses and how many didn't have buses.
We would have to get statistics from the driver on what route, what particular route has an attendant and what route doesn't have an attendant. We don't have that at this time.
You mean you wouldn't know what buses have aides on them? I thought they came under your --
As I said, there's a thousand different routes, and not all of them have not all of them have bus attendants on 'em. 3016 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET Not all of 'em are 1201 routes, a lot of 'em are contracted routes, so we just -- right now, I just don't have those figures.
So the incident reports that you have before you are necessarily not your routes; is that what you're saying?
Or are they your routes? The incident reports that you brought in with you --
Like I said, 99 percent of incident reports here are our routes. There are some in there that are Atlantic Express. Now, it could be that that Atlantic Express route has a 1201 bus attendant on it also. Some of our attendants do go on contracted buses. 3017 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET But as far as we can ascertain, every one here is a School District route. We don't get copies of incidents from the contracted buses. There are a few in here that we were able to get, but in general, practices -- well, like I said, we don't get these anyway; our folks have to literally sneak into a Xerox room and make a copy of it and get it to us. That's what happens, 'cause once it's gone from them, it's out of sight, out of mind.
So who actually fills out those forms; is it the aide or is the bus driver?
The attendant, the aide or the bus driver may do it, depending on who handled the incident.
So, in fact, there were aides on these buses when the incidents occurred?
There are occasions when it happens. Like I said, the one with the clump of hair torn out, she was on that bus.
You told me that but how about the others? Were their aides 3018 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET on those?
Not aides, the attendants, the bus attendants. There are attendants on buses where incidents occur. Obviously, an attendant has to be on that bus to write up the incident; it's not just the driver that writes them up, the attendants do also.
Are there any other questions of Mr. Doyle? (No further questions for Mr. Doyle at this time.)
Is there anyone else to testify on these issues? (No response.)
Mr. Hornbeck, do you mind just coming up for a half a second, please.
Okay, thank you very much for the opportunity of coming. 3019 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET (Dr. Hornbeck returns to the witness table.)
I'll tell you, I feel like we're going around in a circle. We address the book problem, now we're talking about the attendants of buses, bus attendants. I just could not imagine my child going on a bus with some of the incidents that have occurred that were described to us. I don't know what I would do as a parent. I mean, what happens once those reports are filed? Can you tell me what happens? Who are they referred to?
Well, it depends on the incident. As Mr. Doyle testified, some involve chewing gum and others include assault. The person obviously chewing gum obviously is not treated as strongly as the one who committed an assault, and there will be people who experience 3020 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET up to and including expulsion from school.
So that the principal doesn't make that decision. Does it have to go before the --
It does not. Wouldn't it have to go before the Board?
But most incidents that occur on buses are not expulsion incidents. And there are many that are in fact within the disciplinary purview of the principal; in fact, the vast majority would be.
Well, the one issue where a child pulled down his pants, I mean, what happens in a case like that?
I can't answer in that particular one. I mean, we could probably track 3021 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET it down.
I think it's outrageous and it would be a kind of incident that would be dealt with severely, but I don't know those particular instances.
What is your position, having heard what occurs on the buses and that we have less attendants on the buses today than we did in 1994?
The reduction in attendance, yes. There was a fair amount -- just like the little exchange about cell phones that left the impression that there was no way to communicate with anyone, there were several things left out. One was that when we began to reduce attendants at the Recommendation of the management and Productivity Committee of the Greater Philadelphia First, and I think interestingly, given your interest in it, I think that was also a 3022 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET recommendation in the Price Waterhouse report.
And so we looked at that, and our initial reaction was, Gosh, maybe that would save money, but it's not a real good idea. And so we went and surveyed the other big cities in the country, and we discovered we were the only ones in the United States that had bus attendants, and we discovered that the safety record was not different in Philadelphia basically from other places. There was no discernible impact of having those aides. And so, in response to these recommendations, we began to reduce them. And as Mr. Doyle testified, we've reduced a couple of hundred at this point. The first year we reduced them, the incidents went down on the buses. The second year, they went up a little bit. And for those two years, the incident count seemed to confirm that the presence or the absence of attendants doesn't seem to change the safety record, nor the incident report. And that's kind of underlined by even the example that Mr. Doyle happened to use wherein the incident 3023 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET that he held up for you happened to be a route on which there was an attendant, and it happened to be attendant that was the object of the attack. That doesn't make the attack any less reprehensible; it absolutely is. The only point is, does the presence of an attendant increase, decrease, or not change the safety record and the incident record? And it appears to be the case from the facts both in Philadelphia and in other places around the country that it does not. Given that, if we're going to have basically the same safety record and basically the same incident record and we can save $2 million, $2.5 million, I think Price Waterhouse and Greater Philadelphia First and we all concluded that that was the wise course to take.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Superintendent, I certainly do not expect you to know details of the one fairly graphic incident that was reported to us this 3024 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET afternoon. Notwithstanding that, and I have not had a chance to look at the documentation or the incident report, but I think in a non -- not necessarily in a public forum, I do not know after today, whether you will be back before us in a public forum, but I think certainly by way of an appropriately sanitized response, I would in fact like to know what happened with that particular student.
I'd like to know what school they were going to when this incident happened, I would like to know whether anyone was charged with anything or any other disciplinary action taken by the District or by police authorities. And lastly, I'd like to know if the student's in the same school, in another school, or has been expelled from the School District of Philadelphia completely.
Are you referring to the incident of pulling the pants down?
If I could ask Mr. Doyle 3025 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET to leave with us that particular report so that we have a way of tracking it down, we'd be glad to provide you with, as you put it, a sanitized version.
Yes, I would like to know what happened in that situation. What I would like to talk to you about, though, is this issue with regard to -- and I've acknowledged the efforts of Local 1201 and I do recall this landmark contract providing some additional savings. I will say to you, though, that I again was somewhat surprised -- or maybe it's a failing memory -- that they are providing these funds for the District to run athletic programs. Now, is there an office or a division of athletics in the School District? I couldn't --
-- easily discern a tab for that group. Are they athletic dollars spread out through the senior high school budget, the middle school budget, and the elementary school budget? I mean, there is a separate department? And is it within the budget book 3026 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET here?
There -- I can't cite the page, but there is a Director of Athletics. Her name is Linda Magee.
Right, I've seen that from the letters here. Do you have any idea what the budget is for that particular unit of the School District?
I do not, Councilman Nutter. I do know that 1201 for now about four or five years has given us those funds, and we are really grateful to them for it.
If you don't know the actual budget of athletics, the 460-some-odd thousand dollars, either this year or next year, is that a significant portion of the budget for athletics throughout the School District, or is --
The JV budget. So we fully fund the, I guess, varsity sports in the School District?
I can't break it down for you; I'll be glad to send that to you but I 3027 3/17/99 WHOLE COMM./SCHOOL DIST. BUDGET can't do that here. But as far as I know, on a system-wide basis, Local 1201 has been the only entity that has contributed funds. The testimony with respect to Mr. Lee's efforts to secure funds from sports teams, which happened just before I came here, did not work out.
And then we went through a period of time over the next year or two where JV sports became one of the things that was constantly on the cutting block.
And, in fact, the young lady who was the student council representative to the Board at the time made that her issue. And the Board, in that period before Council and the Mayor and we started taking our no-cut policy, each year cut sports and each year restored sports, and 1201's contribution was a part of that.