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Minutes

Committee Hearing, April 7, 2009

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsApr 7, 2009

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Councilman Green

And so, what is the estimate of those savings over the next five years?

Mr. Frank

The reform teams are in the process of developing those savings. 360 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Frank

So I can't --

Councilman Green

But we know there will be some savings.

Mr. Frank

Absolutely, sir.

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Frank

Again, it's anecdotal at this time but based upon certainly my involvement and my experience.

Councilman Green

Well, you know, what our revenue is going to be is basically anecdotal at this time. I mean, it's our best guess.

Mr. Frank

Yes, mm-hmm.

Councilman Green

So what I'd really like to urge the Administration to do -- and I know this is not your responsibility but -- is to let's get some number about what those out-year savings are going to be so we can build them into our Five-Year Plan, because, as you just testified, they're real. Now let's quantify them. 361 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET So to the extent that you have specific savings identified and specific investments identified over the course of FY '10 and the rest of the Five-Year Plan, please provide that information to the Chair.

Councilman Green

Also, when we last met, there were some specific requests I made. (Timer bell rings.)

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam President. There were some specific requests I made with respect to any current reports that exist in your office or elsewhere in government, whether they're from outside consultants, vendors who have made proposals, et cetera, that those reports and numbers be shared with the Chair. Has anybody begun collecting those?

Mr. Frank

Well, it was my 362 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET understanding -- the only outside report that I had seen was the Deloitte report.

Councilman Green

No, I think there are lots of -- I won't say who. There are lots of other vendors who have provided information to the CIO's office in the last year and over a number of years about, you know, and so --

Mr. Frank

You would like all of the historical reports.

Councilman Green

Well, if we could just go back, you know, two years.

Mr. Frank

Sure, no problem.

Councilman Green

Including from vendors. Okay. So... I'd like to get back to President Verna's question, which was about moving Communications or -- from the DOT, MOIS, DOT to -- back to Public Property. A large part of the reason that that was moved over to your jurisdiction in the first place was because of the very network issues you're trying to 363 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET resolve. In other words, it was Public Property that was doing the procurement process for much of the dark fiber or other kinds of way we connect, because when we bought from Verizon, or whether we were using fiber or whatever from building to building, Public Property was setting that up. That is the reason the edge devices within our fiber are so poor. And I don't think it make any sense for us to turn that back over to the people who screwed it up. I mean, our network is bad because Public Property knows about voice, but that's not what networks are about today.

Mr. Frank

Can I respond, Councilman?

Councilman Green

Yes, please.

Mr. Frank

Perhaps there might be a misunderstanding. Public Property is only dealing with voice -- the Centrex, cellphones, and that sort of thing. 364 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET

Councilman Green

I'm talking about the wires, though.

Mr. Frank

I'm sorry?

Councilman Green

I'm talking about the fiber, the copper.

Mr. Frank

As it relates to the network of the City, meaning the data network and so forth?

Councilman Green

Well, it's the same -- it's the same -- it should be the same network. They're using some, you know, fiber for voice and other things like that --

Councilman Green

-- that are on our network.

Mr. Frank

We're -- no, DOT runs the network, okay? And so --

Councilman Green

And does it --

Mr. Frank

-- we haven't ceded thing like fiber --

Councilman Green

Does it --

Mr. Frank

-- or anything 365 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET related to the future, which is exactly why I cordoned it off. We were dealing with the legacy things that, frankly, when we look -- if we turn the clock forward five years, it will be that vision that we talked about, which is a completely converged voice and data network.

Councilman Green

Right.

Mr. Frank

So effectively, voice will go on top of the data network. So think of -- I kept voice-over in Property, and I'm now building up a data network capability that will allow us to handle voice in the future. At that point, things like Centrex things, you know, the traditional things we were doing in Property, completely morph into what we're doing in the new world. So all's I was doing was cordoning off effectively the legacy.

Councilman Green

So we're talking about spending, gosh, I can't 366 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET remember, 36, $60 million on a combination voice/data network for the police system, Motorola, et cetera. And it's my understanding that that's being handled by Public Property and not by DOT.

Mr. Frank

Again, we're talking about the police radio --

Councilman Green

Well --

Councilman Green

-- yes, we are.

Mr. Frank

And it's roughly, I believe, $36 million. And it really has nothing to do whatsoever with the core network of the City.

Councilman Green

Except that the integration of those two can increase police manpower by one hour per shift.

Mr. Frank

Yeah, I agree. I have full confidence in Frank Punzo, the Deputy Commissioner. As I said before, technology in the City, I'm CIO of the entire thing. And I function 367 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET every day, working with professionals across every department, including Property. So to me, it's completely seamless, as one IT group. And I have absolutely no reservations in continuing it.

Councilman Green

Okay. So how many people are actually performing an IT function in the City?

Mr. Frank

Across the City?

Councilman Green

Yeah.

Mr. Frank

Roughly, in the Fiscal Year '10, I'd say about 520 people, you would say, have IT job titles and related.

Councilman Green

IT, sort of like in the federal IT job classification.

Mr. Frank

Well, you know, we have a civil service, and we have normal job titles.

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Frank

And so what I'm 368 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET saying is that since we don't, you know, have all of the IT people in one place, what I do is go across and say, Give me all the of people that are doing the IT jobs.

Councilman Green

So --

Mr. Frank

And as part of that department, there's roughly 520 that are very specifically doing the IT-related functions.

Councilman Green

And --

Council President Verna

Councilman, I'm sorry. Councilman Rizzo's had his light on for sometime. Do you mind giving him the opportunity to ask questions.

Councilman Green

No, Madam President, I don't.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. First of all, Mr. Frank, I want to thank you for the progress that you've 369 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET made. And I agree with two things immediately that you've done. First of all, giving back the old, antiquated phone system to Public Property was one of the best things that you've ever done, because the IT people were not familiar with that aged, ancient technology, because I saw it suffering when it went to IT, because lots of the things that needed to get done weren't. And I have a lot of confidence also in Frank Punzo. He's very responsive when it comes to taking care of the telephone network. The other thing that I agree with is that your strategy in fixing what we have first, increasing the bandwidth of our Internet access; that was absolutely one of the best decisions, because we couldn't move forward with what we had.

Mr. Frank

It was ridiculous.

Councilman Rizzo

It was 370 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET ridiculous. It was sad to see what we were dealing with. So I want to compliment you on trying to make what we have work before we start dealing with a lot of bells and whistles. The other issue that I would like to talk about is something that you may be familiar with or you may not be; I think you will when I use the name of the project. It was called Project Ocean.

Mr. Frank

I've had heard of that.

Councilman Rizzo

You've heard of that. I wonder if you can provide to the Chair, if you can't give us a report right now, and I don't think you'll be able to do the entire request, is the status of Project Ocean today, what that actually cost us to do.

Councilman Rizzo

And is it 371 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET behind us now? Are we still spending money? What is the result of our 4 million bucks? You know where I'm 5 heading, right? 6

Mr. Frank

First of all, the 7 things I can't answer, I'd have to go 8 back and get what the total cost to date 9 has been on Project Ocean. 10

Councilman Rizzo

I can't hear 11 you. 12

Mr. Frank

You can't hear me? 13

Councilman Rizzo

I gotcha now. 14

Mr. Frank

Oh, okay. 15 I do not have with me the total 16 cost of Project Ocean, but I'm sure we 17 can get that for you. 18 As it relates to the status, our 19 water billing works, it's sending out 20 bills. And what we're doing now is what I would call a cleanup, a kind of -- the thing is implemented and working and so forth. And now, cleanup items might be additional, last-minute functions. Or we need a report. Or, you know, some of the 372 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET things you need to do at the end of an implementation. But the most important thing that we're doing, which is also something I think important for us to do in the future. The implementation was done by outside contractors. And in the end, obviously, for ongoing support and maintenance, you end up writing those checks forever. So the process we're in in this year is what I would call a transition, a knowledge transfer, and figuring out how City employees can continue to maintain and support that water revenue system as opposed to paying outsiders. So that's really where we are. We're in kind of a project transition. And so, over the course of the year, the consultants go down and the internal City employees go up.

Councilman Rizzo

Could you -- not that I want you to guess, but do you have a feel for what Project Ocean cost 373 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET us, without dotting the I's and crossing the T's?

Mr. Frank

No. We have a sea of heads saying no. I really have no 6 clue.

Councilman Rizzo

I think that's probably the best answer.

Mr. Frank

Yeah, that's probably the best. Let's just say it's a lot.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay. And again --

Mr. Frank

But it is working. I think we're cool.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay. And I agree with some of my colleagues that, like voice-over IP; we've been talking a about that for a lot of years. And I'm sure there's some point where your group will get back and work with Public Property to develop a voice-over IP system that work well.

Mr. Frank

Well, yeah.

Councilman Rizzo

I know we've 374 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET got something going, but it's not --

Mr. Frank

Oh, no, no, no, no. 4 Absolutely. This is not, "Let's wait five years from now."

Councilman Rizzo

Right.

Mr. Frank

You know, like you said, let me -- can I please get a network that's bigger than a straw, because voice-over IP is all about that network.

Councilman Rizzo

Right.

Mr. Frank

So now we're there, and we'll be working with Public Property actually in 2010 to start looking at, we get back to the cost benefit so that we create the right project and make sure that we know what we're doing and what it's going to cost and what the benefit is of converging those things.

Councilman Rizzo

And thanks for all of the improvements that I've seen since you've been here.

Mr. Frank

Thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

And your 375 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET team.

Mr. Frank

I appreciate your support, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. MR. McPHERSON: Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

So we were talking about IT-spending. So, basically, we have 520 City employees. Do you know what the average salary is of that? Or do you have them broken down by department?

Councilman Green

Okay. If you could -- rather than go through it now, we'll save time if you could provide that to --

Mr. Frank

Yeah, we can provide that to you. We have that broken down by department.

Councilman Green

So you know hardware purchases, software, consulting 376 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET contracts, what departments.

Councilman Green

Okay, great. That's terrific. And that is great progress. Thank you. Thank you for that. I think, with that information on its way to us, I will just look at that and then follow up with you personally.

Mr. Frank

Whatever you choose.

Councilman Green

So I have no 14 more questions, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

You're finished.

Mr. Frank

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Council President Verna

The Records Department was to come in now.

Councilman Green

Madam 377 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET President?

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilman Green

I'm sorry, Madam President. I forgot to make one specific request, and that is of both DOT and the Managing Director's Office: Could they please provide us with the specific detail of exactly what --

Council President Verna

I think they're both engaged in conversation. Mr. Frank, hold on a minute, please. (Mr. Frank returns to witness table.)

Councilman Green

With respect to -- and I'll be making this request, or if I'm not here, hopefully the President or Charlie can, or maybe we can just make a general request for every single department, if we could please get specific detail about the contingency Plan B cuts, what exactly the savings 378 4/7/09 - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - 2010 BUDGET are, what personnel are impacted, what Class 200 spending is impacted, et cetera. That's my only request for both the Managing Director's Office and the Department of Technology.

Council President Verna

Great.

Council President Verna

Would you send that to us in writing, please?

Mr. Frank

Very good. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. We're going to continue the Records Department to another day. We don't know what day that will be, but we'll certainly advise them. Sorry. We tried to get you are earlier. Thank you. And this committee will stand in recess until Tuesday, April the 14th, at 10 a.m. Thank you all very much. (Proceedings end at 4:52 p.m.) * * * 379 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee of the Whole are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Tuesday, April 7, 2009, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)