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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - November 30, 2022

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Nov 30, 20224h 34m

State your name, please, and spell for the court reporter.

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Yes, sir.

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Lindsey Patterson, L-I-N-D-S-A-Y, P-A-T-T-E-R-S-O-N.

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Do you swear or affirm?

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Tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

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Yes, sir.

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Proceed, counsel.

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Yes, Mr. Patterson, you heard everything I had to say today.

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Yes, Alan.

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And is it true and correct?

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Yes, it is.

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Yes, it is.

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I personally hand-delivered all those documents to all the neighbors in the community.

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And this was during the day.

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And several people were outside on their porches.

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Like you said, it's the older community.

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So everyone that was outside, I stopped and talked to them.

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And they gave their, of course, verbal support to me.

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I told them about the Zoom meeting.

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But as you said, it's the older community.

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But they gave me their support.

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and do you dot uh my testimony as it though it was your own yes thank you okay questions from the board

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yes thank you okay questions from the board no mr chairman no mr chairman

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no mr chair

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questions or comments from the virtual audience

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i did not see any hands mr high planning commission

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thank you chair sarah bond city planning commission s-a-r-a-h-b-a-n-h

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the comprehensive plan recommends a zoning change to rm1 residential multifamily at this location

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the variance conforms to this proposed district therefore the city planning commission recommends

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that the zoning board grant the variance thank you mi2022-003-960-630 east chelton avenue i vote

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yes carol tenary my vote is yes thomas holloman my vote is yes james snell my vote is yes

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thank you counsel

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okay so we're going to take a five minute break

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let's give our court reporter a chance and then when we come back we're going to go right through

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so five minutes okay

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all right so case number 10

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MI 2022

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003 649

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3000 West

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Schoolhouse Lane. This is a resumptive

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hearing. I need

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Mr. Peter Kelsen

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and also Charles Miller,

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both attorneys.

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Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.

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Yes, I'll announce it, Tom,

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as soon as they go on. Thank you.

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Mr. Kelsen, Mr. Miller,

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if you're...

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We're still in the virtual audience, please raise your hands.

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, Peter Kelsen, joining.

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Hi, Mr. Kelsen, spell your name, please, and I'll swear you in.

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Absolutely.

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Peter, K-E-L-S-E-N.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I certainly do.

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Mr. Miller?

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Yes.

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Hi, Mr. Miller, could you state your name, please, and spell for the court reporter?

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it's charles miller uh m-i-l-l-e-r right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth

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nothing but the truth i do before we start one of our uh board members thomas hallman has recused

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himself from the hearing um so we will have just uh there'll be four of us okay um my understanding

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where we are is uh we're going to have uh mr miller present present his witnesses mr kelson

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will have a chance to cross uh we'll take testimony from the public and then the planning commission

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is we both agree everybody agrees we do mr miller you have the floor thank you mr chairman

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I represent Slobodan and Joviana Bucetik.

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It's S-L-O-B-O-D-A-N.

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And it is Z-V-I-Z-V-I-J-E-N-A.

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And they're the owners of 3817 The Oak Road.

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and it's located directly across the street from what is known as the Timmons House and

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that which is on the Penn Charter campus. My clients have lived at that property since 2014.

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They have a child who goes to Penn Charter. Their objections to this application are limited.

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They don't object to the renovations that are being proposed to lower school

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or any other aspect related to the proposed development. Their interest is only with the

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regard as the proposed parking lot across the street at the timmons house um that property

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is located at 3850 the oak road and maintains a separate opa number from the rest of the pen charter

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school uh i don't know if i'm allowed to share the screen i did present um

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exhibits and submit them to the board i've seen that but you can share the screen if you want

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blue dot at the bottom the green dot at the bottom

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you're up so um that would be exhibit two if you come down uh see it's what i've labeled exhibit

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two um the residence on the property on the timmons property is known as the henry w brown house

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it has been designated as a historical building by the philadelphia historical commission

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and was deemed as the charter house on the oak road due to its historical significance uh that

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is been labeled that designation or nomination is exhibit four uh while the proposal before

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you today it doesn't involve changes to that building it does uh as my clients would

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It doesn't involve changes to that building. It does, as my clients would submit, transform the property, which is still separately assessed from one that is used five to 10 times a year by the school for events involving the school in the small parking lot there.

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And which was asked to testify to by the pin charter representative at the last hearing to one that is used nearly every day in connection with the school on the abutting property and overwhelmingly will be used as a parking lot.

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not an office meeting or reception room, which is connected to the school, which is how it's used now.

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So, in fact, my client's position is that expanding this parking lot on the Timmons property transforms the character of the neighborhood,

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of the Oak Road corridor of homes, which currently all residential homes except the one church on the Oak Road,

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into more of an institutional use because the primary use will then be the parking lot serving the property that's abutting it.

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My client maintains concerns about the general impact of having a school parking lot across the street, the lighting noise, increased usage, all of which have been heightened over the recent years due to unintended impacts, which they have noticed following the school's development of the new athletic center on the campus, which has brought more cars and more people at various times throughout any given week.

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um my client prepared a set of slides which includes pictures diagrams charts and maps

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uh and i will go through those and summarize some of those um for you um they highlight the

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on-street parking which intermittently uh occurs throughout the day on school days uh you can see

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here uh the uh parking on both sides of the street uh where it's tight along the where it's a

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double lane, so cars coming in and out. Mr. Miller, it might be helpful if just you show

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the cursor where your client lives. My client lives at this, this is, they're basically right

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here, I believe. Okay. This is their driveway. You can see cars that sometimes pull right directly

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abutting the driveway, which makes it difficult right turns and left turns when cars on the other

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side. There's concern, as my client prepared for the slide, the slides that are before you now,

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the top one is the present-day parking lot, a diagram that the parking lots that are existing

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are highlighted in blue, M, K, and S. The property that's involved is in this area. As you can see,

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the flow as it is now up on this slide. My client submits and has observed that there

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is not a general flow. The flow doesn't cause the students to use the surrounding streets.

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The concern is that with this lot, because of the disjointed or disconnected nature of the

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proposed parking lots, with T being the new proposed parking lot, students who are intending

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to park in this Timmons parking lot, what they believe will happen, I think they would testify

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to, is that students will come in on the one-way bus school lane intending to park here.

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If the lot is full, instead of coming all the way around throughout the campus, which

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would be a long way to visit these other parking lots, what will happen is they'll come straight

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through here and end up taking a left and parking on the Oak Road, as students tend

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to do and would be, you know, late for school or whatever it is, it'd be easier to park on the Oak

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Road and then access it through the pedestrian way, which is being created as part of this

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development. So, also, my client studied some of the other schools that are very similar,

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and that's shown on this slide that's before you now with respect to how many parking spaces there

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are, as you can see, what's proposed is obviously a lot more parking. And obviously, they're

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increasing the parking. The concern is that from what they've seen, given that the new facilities,

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the increase in the parking, the increase in the amount of students who would be using their

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vehicles, thus leading to additional parking on the road, where there are no limitations on parking

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on that street. There are also, according to the testimony that I heard, I didn't hear any

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suggestions of limitations of who would be parking in the Timmons Road parking lot.

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There also is an inquiry as to whether an alternative site for the parking lot would

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be available. My client suggests and has seen parking in this, what is called this K lot,

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this Kurtz lot. It is currently a field and have observed in this slide before you,

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this is a picture of cars being used on special occasions in an overflow lot in this area. It's

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highlighted in this blue area here. This is where the photo of those cars. You can also

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You can also see in a traffic study, which the Penn Charter Commission back in March, it shows this lot being expanded for 66 spaces.

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see in a traffic study, which the Penn Charter Commission back

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The study that was presented to you at the time of the hearing shows 53 spaces less parking here.

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So we suggest there is an opportunity or at least at some point there was contemplated an alternative location for this parking or some of the parking which is being proposed.

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And then finally, the last slide shows pictures from my client's property, as it shows for the wellness center. Again, the concerns of unintended consequences and issues and negative impacts resulting from lighting and other things.

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So, in summary, the concern has been, let me back up, I guess using the Timmons House parking area or using this lot for parking was previously contemplated as before this board.

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I believe there is here, this was in the 2001, a request associated with the middle school where you can see that there were no changes.

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One of the conditions or one of the recommendations that was made was no changes to be made to the Timmons House on the Oak Road.

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So my clients do acknowledge that the school has revised its plan over the course of time in an attempt to obviously mitigate some of those impacts.

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But there's still concern about the way that the impacts that will still have lighting, additional traffic and other aspects.

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And the reality is that based upon the testimony that was presented and how this property will be transformed, we submit that it would change the essential character of the neighborhood from one that is residential along this corridor.

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and has this this house has traditionally been used to a parking lot which is directly across

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the street from my client's property we would also suggest that either the school by its own

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actions and or prior testimony or availability of locations that they're they have contemplated

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and that there potentially is an alternative location for additional parking which could be

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used as opposed to the Timmons parking lot which has a greater impact that lot is within the camp

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campus, in the main campus. Obviously, it takes away some green space, but that's an issue with respect. That's how an issue more or less as to how they want to use the property as opposed to what the consideration of the other individuals on the outside and the neighbors.

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Um, so, uh, with that, uh, you know, I would, uh, uh, respectfully submit that, uh, the application, the necessary standards with respect to this issue only, uh, have not been met for that, for that variance and would ask that, um, my clients who I believe are on the line be elevated in order to confirm, uh, and adopt that testimony and then provide any additional comment they may have and be subject to cross-examination by counsel.

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Okay. Hi, could you have your client raise their hand?

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If they could do so, I believe they are online.

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Okay.

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They've been allowed to speak, sir.

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Okay. Could you state your name and spell it, please, for the court reporter?

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Slobodan Vucetic, S-L-O-B-O-D-A-N, first name, last name, V-U-C-E-T-I-C.

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Right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Do you want your second client sworn to?

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Sure.

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Yes, if you would, please.

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Sure.

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Could you have your wife state her name and spell for the court reporter?

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My name is Jiviana Vucetic, spelled Z-I-V-J-E-N-A-V-U-C-E-T-I-C.

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Right.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Proceed, counsel.

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And I would ask each one of my clients if they heard my testimony and the summary and prepared the slides which were presented to the board this evening.

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Yes, I confirm.

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Okay. And is everything that has been provided to the board and the summary which was presented true and correct to your best to your knowledge and belief.

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Yes.

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And as a result, would you adopt my testimony as if it were your own.

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Yes, I do.

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And you were present also for the applicant's presentation at the prior hearing and other presentations that the applicant has made with respect to this development, correct?

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Yes.

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And for Slobodan, do you have additional comments as it relates to your concerns with respect to the proposed Timmons parking lot expansion?

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So, thank you, Mr. Miller.

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So I think you covered in very briefly some of the major aspects of our complaint.

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But maybe I would like to get a couple more minutes and I'll try not to waste everybody's time to make.

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couple more minutes uh and i'll try not to waste everybody's time uh to maybe you know clarify

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this a few points um so uh if you can please go to to slide i think uh in your deck it's slide 18

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which actually i think we are seeing uh

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a little bit sorry it's actually 20.

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Yeah. So I would like us, if you can maybe zoom in a little bit, I don't know if you can.

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So basically what I want first to point out that this is actually on the right hand side,

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that's how the Timmons house property looks from actually from our lot. So I just want to point

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out that this property basically really looks like a residential house and its use is a very

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consistent with how

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a big family would use

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a house like that so it's

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very predictable it's been

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occasional parties

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events but most of the time

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it's just several

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employees there and

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predictably coming in

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around 8 a.m. and leaving

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around 5 p.m.

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You can't talk I'm on

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the screen

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Okay bye

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uh i'm not sure and can you repeat yeah no just go ahead oh sorry okay so so that's i think one

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of the one point so actually the point is really that this uh the street the way it is right now

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it really has very strong residential feel it's a historic street that's literally unchanged since

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