Deputy Commerce Director. Yeah, thank you so much, Councilman, for the blueprint and for your question. We've been through too many emergencies, right? And over the last five years or so, what that has caused us to do is -- well, Commerce has learned a lot. And through those -- through those early days with the civil unrest, we have created internally an emergency -- business emergency playbook that we activate. We have some simple things. We use our teams chat. As soon as any one of us hears about something that might, you know, whether we're hearing a rumor, social media or officially through OEM or the police, we sort of activate internally. We decide what the impact is going to be. If it's going to be something that warrants, like, a big response, we assign a point person. Now it's -- I know you're speaking about the civil unrest. We use this for other things. The latest was the plane crash, of course. Celine Wilson, you know, stepped up and was on point for that. We ensure that we're working closely with the police department, with Office of Emergency Management and any other department to make sure we're bringing resources to the businesses. We also have some tips. We get out, you know, tips for protecting your business. We try to do some early alerts, like you said, AMBER Alert, to the businesses in that we identify what the areas are, figure out how we can reach, you know, we count a lot on the intermediaries, the CDCs, business associations, civic associations. So we get -especially get the word out right to them so they can distribute it. But we also go directly to the businesses as much as possible.
I don't want to scare us at all, but history tends to repeat itself and we need to have almost, like, a fire drill, if you would, on how that communications chain would happen. I remember Katherine Gilmore-Richardson out there -- I'm going to leave it there. She's braver than --
I think Jamie was near a tank or something. Was it a tank out there with tear gas?
That's all I'll say. But I just want us to be able to coordinate with the district police, coordinate with the private security offered by some of the malls. I remember what -- the Lady Meatball calling in air strikes -- here's where we getting ready to go loot next -- kind of thing. That we have to get ahead of those things and be prepared to protect particularly in the neighborhood corridors that they don't get big insurance. But for some people, Mr. President, it was like a clearance sale. The insurance covered every bit of their losses. They were able to, next week, get back on board. Others in 52nd Street and in my district weren't so lucky. So we have to help them to be prepared for the, you know, those kinds of occasions. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you, Member Jones. Councilmember Cindy Bass.
Mr. President, thank you. Good morning. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Good morning.
How are you? So Alba, as everyone else has stated, thank you for your service. Although, I have to say, we go so far back to being Democratic Committee people in the -- in the 22nd Ward in 1990-something. I don't even want to say what year. And, you know, you've always just been a class act, in my opinion. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Thank you so much.
And so I just really want to thank you again for your service. And -- but I also feel very confident as we both sort of moved around that we'll be seeing each other again, I'm sure somewhere down the line. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Hundred percent.
You know, who knows? Who knows? But best of wishes to you. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Thank you.
And so, now just a couple of questions regarding some of the -- well, actually just going to one of the questions that my colleague Nicholas O'Rourke asked earlier. As he and I have been working on co-ops and we heard you say that they were important, but it was kind of, like, that was it. If they're important, then they should be reflected somewhere in the plans for Commerce. And I don't see that anywhere. Can we have some more detail on that? What's the plan? You know, if it's not planned for, if it's not measured, if there's no goal for it, you know, it's just not going to happen. And so we'd like some conversation around that. And also, I also want to take a second and just acknowledge Karen and Yvonne and Dennis, who I work with on a regular basis, and just say, thank you so much to all of them for their work and -- really to the entire Commerce Department for all of their hard work. But can you talk about co-ops briefly? DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Thank you for your question. Yvonne.
Yes. Thank you, Councilperson. It's been a pleasure working with you as well.
And, yes, co-ops are really now on our radar. As Councilman O'Rourke said, they really could be the way of small business in the future because you spread the risk.
So we do fund the Philadelphia Area Cooperative Alliance already. We give them 100,000 a year. So we are doing that.
We fund the organization itself so that they are out there to help businesses that want to form co-ops. We -- did you have --
We support the organization, which does work on behalf of --
Right. So I got you. So we support the organization, which -- with a $100,000 per year that does work on behalf of 40 different organizations.
Yes. And, I mean, that's a -- that's a good average for the way in which our work goes. We have other technical assistance providers, which we give them 100 -- 150 and the support upwards of 200 businesses. So I -- yes, I do get your point. But it's -- yes, we'll look and see how we can adjust it. We had a training with them just last week to explain better programs and how our programs can be accessed by their members. We've also changed their programs to make it easier for cooperatives to access the funding that we provide.
So we will -- yes, as -- oh, no. We will look at it moving in the future and see how best we can support them more.
It doesn't feel like robust programming for co-ops. And as you said, if you think that this is something significant for the future, it doesn't feel that there's a robust commitment by the Commerce Department. It feels like it's a -- there's a drop here and there's a drop there. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Your feedback is well taken, and we will take it back and have a conversation before I leave about this issue of supporting co-ops and how we can take it to the next level. Thank you for the feedback.
Okay. One other question. 2026, what is Commerce doing around -- particularly around small minority businesses in the neighborhoods around 2026? DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: So we're very excited about our investment in the 2026 activities because our primary focus is on the corridors, right? Selecting in partnership with Council and the administration, and also looking at, you know, which are the right corridors for this moment, activating and investing in up to 10 corridors to ensure that they become 11 active participants in this economic 12 opportunity, this unprecedented 13 economic opportunity. 14 Those investments which, 15 you know, roughly will amount to 16 about $4 million targeted to this 17 initiative will include physical 18 beautification as well as investment 19 in activating those corridors and 20 the surrounding areas with cultural activities and events that will draw people. Layered into that will be other investments in storefront beautification, right, to make sure that businesses can compete and participate. And last but not least, something that I talk about a lot is the marketing of those corridors. We have an investment and a commitment to invest in the marketing of those corridors that we want to showcase for 2026. And that investment in marketing our corridors needs to be enduring because it is not reasonable to expect individual corridors and individual businesses to be able to market themselves and do so efficiently. So Councilwoman, I will tell you that we are doubling down on investing in businesses within those corridors. In addition to that, there's going to be, and there already is, a really deep commitment to making sure that every business in the city, whether they're on those corridors or not, knows how to tap into opportunities. Hey, where are the opportunities? How do I apply? Who is eligible? What are the requirements? And we work collectively with Michael Newmuis, and others on all of these issues. And so creating an access portal for small businesses that want to participate is really crucial. And that portal really is going to have to be available very soon. And we're taking steps towards that.
So how are we to do that? I'm sorry, Mr. President. How are we going to do that? How are we going to make sure every business in the city is aware of how to tap into the programs, the services, the resources that are offered by the Commerce Department? That sounds like a massive undertaking, unless we already have, you know, all of this in place. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Well, there's -- I would want to defer on the details of that initiative to Michael. However, I will say generally speaking, that there is a lot of communication every week. The leaders across internally in the city and outside of the city in terms of our partners are continuously speaking about a number of work streams. And access to opportunity is one of the work streams that gets talked about on a continuous basis. And so, the component parts are obviously inventorying what the opportunities are. And obviously we're in a position to do that because we're connected into, you know, every investment, right? It's -- we have the power. The government has the power to get information fairly easily. And then second of all, loading it up in some sort of platform that will allow people easy access. And thirdly, to market it. So while it is a lift, it is not, you know, what I'll say rocket science. We could absolutely do it if we have the commitment and the will. And so it is -- it is on the top of the agenda. And I do believe that there is serious commitment to making it happen.
I hear what you're saying. We're almost midway in the 2025. So we're at that moment now. So, you know, I don't know how it's going to be rushed, and -- DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: I'll get you the details. I'm going to get you the details about where we are on that specific project, right?
Okay. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Because it's -- there is work done on the project. I just don't have the actual status here. So I would like to follow-up with you on what are the -- what steps are we taking to ensure access to information?
Okay. Because we -- you know, it -- to me, it should be happening right now already. We're all -- DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: And it is.
It late because 2026 is, you know, seven months away. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Thank you.
I want to also add a point of information as well, just to add to the conversation. And so, Commissioner, could you have your team sit down with Member Bass, and I think any other members, regarding what Michael Newmuis is doing regarding ramping up the strategy and the execution for the inclusivity of small businesses to participate? The corridor enhancement presentation that I received yesterday, which is very, very informative, but I think it would be more prudent if members, as a whole, would be able to sit down and see where we're at and where we're going. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Yes, sir.
Because there's also different -- there's information that you're not actually saying that I've actually seen, the other members probably need to see, so everybody's on the same page. Like the portal that's going to be rolled out. Like the Corridor program, specifically around infrastructure that's going to be rolled out. And so I would like for you to follow-up with Michael Newmuis and Jazelle Jones, but to roll out what that looks like. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Duly noted. We will provide a briefing specifically on those issues. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to take a matter of discretion at this moment. Ask Planning to come up. Because there's some members who didn't get a chance to have questions in the first round who want to ask questions regarding planning. And then we'll just integrate the two as we end out this next hour. And I'll do the discretion that you go even longer as we wrap up. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Do you want me to stay?
You can stay and just have Jessie and John Mondlak stay up here as well. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Absolutely.
And as questions come up for Commerce, you can call individuals up. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Sure, absolutely.
Is that okay, members? Good with that? Okay. Jessie, just state your name for the record, go into your testimony. I think we read it already, but we'll be prepared to ask questions immediately. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Good morning, everybody. Jessie Lawrence, Director of Planning and Development. Read the testimony? Apologies. Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Council President. Good morning, City Councilmembers. I am Jessie Lawrence. I'm the Director of Planning and Development for the city of Philadelphia. I'm joined here today by our senior leadership team, including representatives from PHDC and the Land Bank. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you here today to present our Fiscal Year 2026 budget proposal and discuss the important work ahead. The Department of Planning and Development partners with Philadelphia's communities to promote, plan, preserve, and develop neighborhoods that are safe, clean, and green. Focusing on the built environment, we strive to foster thriving communities with accessible housing, a dynamic public sphere, and a resilient economy. Our mission is rooted in ensuring every neighborhood contributes to making Philadelphia the safest, cleanest, greenest big city in America. For Fiscal Year 2026, DPDs work will span comprehensive planning, housing creation and preservation, land management, economic development, all of which are guided by research, data, and deep intentional stakeholder engagement. E. initiative to create and preserve 30,000 housing units. The work here includes cross departmental collaboration pursuant to the Mayor's executive order No. 3 325, which tasked DPD with identifying and implementing recommendations for reducing unnecessary delays and costs, encouraging timely development of much needed residential projects, and bringing affordable luxury to affordable housing across the board. We look forward to exploring home in depth more on April 23rd when this body holds a day of hearings dedicated to the initiative. Today, we're honored to be sharing with -- today, we're honored to be sharing our other ambitious plans for Fiscal Year 2026. These include the coordinated planning for the revitalization of the Market East Corridor, in collaboration with business, civic, and community stakeholders. We'll begin that public engagement effort for updates with these -- so for updates to the city comprehensive plan, including resident led tours, community workshops, in-person hubs, surveys and laying the groundwork for a collective vision of Philadelphia's future. At the same time, we'll expand Treasure Philly, a program piloted by the Philadelphia Historical Commission. Treasure Philly explores a concept of preservation that goes beyond structures to encompass meaningful local cultural resources, traditions, and histories. We're also prioritizing the strategic use of public land by the Philadelphia Land Bank. This will include scaling Turn The Key, a program that makes home ownership opportunities available and builds intergenerational wealth. Monthly mortgage payments under the Turn The Key program are less than what many Turn The Key home buyers were paying in rent. We will also develop and implement a strategic plan for the acquisition, maintenance, and disposition the properties by the Land Bank, and looking at ways to advance curb appeal, also increasing transparency through new reporting tools. In addition, our Division of Housing and Community Development, most of which know as DHCD will continue to support effective cleaning and greening programs such as land care. Studies have found that an increase of nearly 13 percent in homes, home values over the six years near stabilized lots, a 29 percent decrease in gun violence, 22 percent fewer burglaries, and 30 percent decrease in illegal dumping, and a 41 percent decrease in feelings of depression amongst residents.
We will continue key programs supporting home ownership, foreclosure expansion -- for foreclosure prevention and eviction diversion. With our partners at PHDC, we will enhance the Shallow Rent Program for rent burden households, and we will implement new training and outreach initiatives to make home appraisals more equitable. Our department is committed to improving internal operations and service delivery. We will, for example, enhance performance management processes within the zoning board of adjustments to improve accessibility, reduce processing times, and increase transparency. In conclusion, the Department of Planning and Development remains a steadfast in its commitment to building safe, equitable, and vibrant communities throughout Philadelphia. The Fiscal Yeah '26 budget proposal reflects the resources necessary to advance this mission, and I'm grateful for City Council's ongoing partnership and support. Thank you for your time and I'll welcome your questions.
Thank you, Jessie. I'm going to let my members delve right into it. I just had one comment I just want to make. I just want to acknowledge from the Turn The Key program, how many houses have we built -- have we built to date? How many trees under MBI have we removed to date? How many driveways have we completed to date? And -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: We have built a total of --
Speak into the microphone. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Sorry, I'm looking for the information. No, I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm trying to get to the information, because I just didn't have it. One second, Councilmember -- Council President. Okay. I don't believe we have those exact numbers. We've approved -- I do have that we've approved an average of 227 units for Turn The Key per year of each bond. Additionally, MPI is the largest source of funding for any preservation and production for affordable housing. And we look to fill those gaps as we keep going. For further details, I do believe Ryan is here and if you have those numbers, would you mind coming up? Or if we don't have those numbers, we can get those exact numbers to you. Yeah.
Okay. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: We'll get those numbers to you.
I know the numbers I want to go on the record, but I want to take a moment to acknowledge part of my team, right? I'm going to make them stand and put them on the spot, right? Jenaye Munford, stand up. Ashley Gilmore to stand up. Because they go hard on this particular initiative, right? Obviously, we have the leadership on working in partnership with Brian and Dave Thomas. Give them a round of applause on administration side. And so I just want to acknowledge them for their hard work. And I know I'm going to save a lot of my questions regarding the H.O.M.E. initiative when we have the actual day to do a deeper dive on it. But MPI is a critical program to members of City Council, right, all members of City Council. And I know they work diligently day in and day out to make sure that program is very successful. So I just want to acknowledge them and put the actual work that we are doing on the record, just to show that we're being effective and being prudent by the taxpayers in terms of addressing the issue of housing inequality here in the city of Philadelphia. I'm looking forward to doing a deeper dive on the H.O.M.E. Initiative, as we move the city of Philadelphia for addressing housing inequality. So with that being said, I'm going turn it over to first Councilmember Brooks, then to Majority Gilmore-Richardson, Jamie Gauthier, and then Councilmember Jim Harrity in that order.
Thank you, Council President. And good morning. My question is around community gardens, which you guys know, that's one of my soft spots. So for the last two decades we've lost a third of community gardens in Philly under the threat and we wanted to take some action. So City Council has secured funding for 90 plots from the U.S. Bank liens that had been transformed into community gardens. We passed a legislation fixing the priority bid so that the Land Bank can acquire these properties. And now, there is an MOU with the Sheriff's Department to facilitate the sale. What is the process and timeline for the acquisition of the U.S. Bank lien for garden properties? And when would the gardens be in the hands of the gardeners? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So what I can provide, before I call my colleague Angel Rodriguez up, who's much more versed in the Land Bank and the ability to acquire. You know, we are happy that sheriff sales have started back up. My understanding is that these next few months will be a series of board approvals that will allow for them to acquire again. But I'd like to call up Angel Rodriguez to talk more about that when it comes to the Land Bank and the ability to acquire.
And I don't want to leave Angel out. Thank you, Angel, for your hard work around Turn The Key and making sure the land has moved forward in our councilmanic districts, as we address the issue of housing inequality in the city of Philadelphia. Good morning, Angel.
He's also held to the 2nd Councilmanic District of South Philly.
Yes, I am. Good morning, Council President, Councilmembers. Angel Rodriguez, executive director of the Land Bank. I just want to just clarify for the first question you had asked. We've approved 800 properties for Turn The Key, 400 are under construction, 235 have been completed, and over 200 have been sold, 75 of those are to city employees. So I just want to -- and we have about $13.1 million engaged in Turn The Key dollars for those secondary mortgages. And about 1.3 million for Philly First Home as well, all part of MPI.
No problem. To the question about the U.S. Bank liens. So on the 23rd, we had a special session with the Land Bank. We approved -- the Land Bank Board. We did approve the MOU, it was executed that day. It went into effect on the 24th. So the plan right now is that we are meeting with Linebarger, who is the servicing agent for U.S. Bank, the city on larger U.S. Bank liens. We also have a meeting scheduled for -- with the city. The city actually purchased back the liens, so we are working with all three servicers, that's GRB, Linebarger, and the city, in terms of setting up Land Bank's first sheriff sale on the bid for assets platform, which will be in June. All three sheriff sales. It's important to note because of the legislation, we do have a noticing requirement. So we do have to send out in a timely fashion a notice to everybody that has an interest on that property. They then have the option, as is outlined in the legislation, that would allow them to opt out of the priority bid that the Land Bank has and go to a regular sheriff sale. So we hope to acquire those properties by June. It should be a fairly simple situation, but I do have to work out the detail with the Revenue Department. I'm not going to speak for that department. They're taxed as well, you know, as everybody -- every other department and it does take quite a bit of legal work to get that to sheriff sale.
All right. Thank you. Could I have like four follow-ups and he can just answer those? It's just like, kind of one sentences.
So one is: Will the -- will the Land Bank website list clear requirements for gardeners to acquire? Because most of these folks are volunteers who don't really have the capacity to do a lot of paperwork. So I'm really concerned about how the next steps will happen once we get past this. The other one is: What will be the cost to the gardeners to acquire these properties? Will there be a streamlined application that's geared to these particular gardens? When will the applications for the gardeners be open? And what supports will be given to community garden groups, which are mostly volunteer organizations to acquire these properties?
I know. A point of clarification, though, under the ordinance and under the methods and disposition, you have to be a non-profit to be qualified for garden disposition. We are working with NGT, and most people do partner with NGT. I just recently at the last board meeting had a brief conversation. We're going to -- I'm going to follow-up with Jenny Greenberg. She does have some, you know, edits to our -- our garden application. It is a specialized application. There are certain issues that we do have to deal with. We cannot sell something we do not own. So there's a concern about the timing of the application so we can actually approve them for disposition, if I don't own it. So there's going to be a bit of an issue where -- and we're working with the Sheriff's Department where they -- we go to the sheriff's sale, they have a certain timeline under the MOU they've agreed to convey those titles and deeds to us, we record them, and then we should be able to dispose of them, but there is a process. Since we will be doing it in June, Council was not in session. So any future dispositions for gardens will not happen until the fall because Council resolution is required for disposition.
Okay. Thank you for mapping that out. I want to thank you also for working closely with Jenny Greenberg and NGT and moving this forward. This has been a long time coming.
I think we've been working on this for five, almost six years now, just me personally, and whatever work Councilmember Sanchez and other folks did well before I got here. So I want to thank you for moving that forward. And I just want to do another thank you and shout out for Turn The Key, too. I have two staff members that just came to Turn The Key.
So I really do appreciate the work that has been put beyond that because we are offering opportunities for folks that never had an opportunity or have thought they could be homeowners to do so. So thank you so much for that work.
Thank you. Good job. And I still give the Mayor shout out for moving on those vacant green lots for the people. Because I remember that was one of her priorities and I think she was being supportive, gave you that bill to be supportive of that. And I also saw some money in the budget, so I just wanted to say, acknowledged that for the record. Majority Leader Gilmore- Richardson, Councilmember Jim Harrity, Councilmember Jamie Gauthier.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. President. And thank you, Jessie, and to the entire team at planning. Thank you for being on the call that we had with our MPI team here in Council with Jenaye Munford, and the legal service organizations and the Register of Wills office. And thank you, Angel, for your support with all of the Land Bank work. I also want to thank you for Turn The Key. I also have a staff for Councilmember Brooks that is coming through the program as well and just opening up a world of opportunity around home ownership. So thank you very much. Very quickly, I have a number of questions that I need to get on the record. And I also will in advance come back for the second round. What is the short term plan to sustain the MPI operations as we discussed the proposed home plan particularly around Tangled Titles, Neighborhood Infrastructure, and BSRP and the other programs? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So those programs, they're the programs that will continue and expand -- invest and expand. Tangled Title is one of them. We are also looking to make sure that we maintain some funding for neighborhood improvements, such as driveways and alleyways as well.
Excellent. So what I would ask is if you all could give us something in writing that notates the additional short-term sort of plan, the overall short-term plan for the MPI operations as you know it to be currently, so that we have that as of today. And then also, how much remaining bond dollars are there from MPI? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: 50 million, I believe it is.
50 million. Okay. And so the question is: Can you confirm whether or not you plan to roll over any remaining bond dollars from MPI into the new home plan? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So there will be a bridging of the gap of sorts until programs are stood up, until programs are actually, you know --
To get. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yeah, exactly. The programs that we're looking to maintain in the home bond, in the H.O.M.E. initiative, there is a series of them. I mean, a number of them have to be stood up, right? A number of them have to be expanded or will be expanded. And for those that we are in collaboration with, you all on the councilmanic side and looking to make sure we bridge that, that's what we believe that 30 -- that 50 million will be dedicated to.
So if you could give us a list -- a breakdown -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yes.
-- of that information, because the Tangled Title support and investment that we achieved out of MPI was one of the very first investments from MPI. But you know that we have a number of other investments that we want to continue to make across neighborhoods. And so if we could get a breakdown of how you all intend to deal with that additional or the -- not additional, but the last 50 million from MPI that would be helpful for us to understand what's happening here. And particularly, if it's going to roll over into a new bond initiative or how that will work. Okay. And if it changes from a tax -- if there's a taxable bond versus a tax exempt bond, and if you roll over, then what type of bond it would go into at that point? I did hear the bell. I just want to get one more question on the record for this round, and then I'll come back on the second round, because I have additional questions from the detail in particular. But we recognize that costs are increasing for our Tangled Title cases. You know that there was a change at the PA Department of Revenue regarding how they are no 5 longer exempting transfer tax from certain properties. And you know that that's increasing cost from $3,000 to $5,000. It could be up to $8,000 depending on the type of property you're talking about in the property value. So how many families has the Tangled Title Fund been able to assist so far this fiscal year? How does this differ from last year? How much do you think we need in the fund to fully cover the costs of all the applicants? And are you anticipating the revenue from the new fee will go into the fund? And if so, will that raise enough revenue to meet the goals? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So I'd like to call up our deputy director for Housing and Community Development Mark Dodds to take those questions.
Okay. And is that -- let me ask you a question, who's the new Melissa? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Mark Dodds.
Okay. That -- that's -- because we work really closely with Melissa. I don't think I've known for a year-and-a-half who the new Melissa is. No slight at all, I just didn't know exactly who it is. But we really need a break -- a full breakdown of the whole Tangled Title piece. Like at the point when someone starts with our system and then goes through the Tangle Title, that's what I'm asking. But specifically around that revenue change up at the state and where our numbers have been year-over-year? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Interim Director Dodds can walk you through that process.
Yes. Good afternoon. Interim Director, Mark Dodds, Division of Housing and Community Development. So first of all, in order to be eligible for the program, you have to meet certain requirements. Income has to be at/or below 80 percent AMI. You have to live in the home or intend to live in the home. And your net assets, I believe have to be at/or below $10,000. And then we also work with a variety of legal aid organizations to implement the program, that includes VIP, CLS, PLA, and senior law. Referrals can come through our neighborhood advisory committees or individuals can go directly to those legal aid providers for those services. And we are aware of what you cited some increases in the transfer tax. That's something we're actively communicating with our partners on, especially VIP. We do anticipate receiving somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,000 in FY26 as the increase in recording fees, which I believe you cited as well. And we're hoping, you know, these discussions are ongoing, that some of that funding can help mitigate the higher transfer taxes that you alluded to.
Okay. And -- but the other question, and my apologies, Madam Chair, how many families has the Tangled Title Fund been able to assist so far this fiscal year and how that differs from last year?
I don't have those figures in front of me. The fund covers costs up to $4,000 right now, but we can get you a breakdown.
Thank you very much. And I just want to put on the record, and I'm going to bring this up again when we hear from the Register of Wills Office as well, and I've spoken with our Register as late as Friday evening about this issue. That I do have some concern about sort of the inner mechanics of the Tangled Title Fund and how families have been able to interact with our fund, not from more so from the city administration side, but just from how it touches the administration, the legal service aid organizations, and the Register of Wills Office, and our ability to work cohesively together to get a family to resolution. And so, you know, that I've been on the meetings, Director Lawrence. You know I've been intimately involved with this issue from day one. This is one of my babies. And so we are just seeking to help as many families as possible. So I just want to put it on the record related to MPI, but also the Tangled Title Fund around what we will need from you all moving forward, recognizing all these changes and coming to the end of MPI. Okay? Thank you very much. Thank you Madam Chair. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Thank you. Thank you, Council Lady. Next, Councilwoman Gauthier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are about the Land Bank. If I'm reading your budget proposal correctly, there isn't any budget increase for Land Bank operations. At the same time, I know that we're planning to build thousands of new units on Land Bank lands, and we know that it currently takes over a year at best to get a property out the door. I think we can all agree that the Land Bank needs more lawyers, more project managers, and more property maintenance dollars now that the priority bid is back, but I don't see any of that in the budget. So first, why not? Second, how much of the Land Bank's FY26 acquisition budget is going to come from the general fund? And how much of it will come from the home bonds? And then now that the Land Bank is acquiring properties, again, how many parcels are on its priority list? And will its projected FY26 budget be enough to acquire them all? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So I can start off by letting you know that the Land Bank secured $5 million in acquisitions for sheriff sales to resume. The money is an escrow. And there will be at an additional 1.5 for the U.S. Bank lien, I believe. But I can allow for Mr. Rodriguez to talk about that a little bit more in depth.
So you're saying there's 5 million in the budget for acquisition?
We already have the 5 million. So it's 3.5 million for regular acquisitions with which on average gets us about 325 properties. And then we have the 90 that have been already identified where the city has already expended about 1.2 million to acquire the U.S. Bank liens. So then there's 1.5 that did -- that the Land Bank has to go to Sheriff's sale and acquire those dollars. So it's 5 million total that is not part of the budget, because that's already been expended in previous fiscal years.
Thank you. Can you talk about the Land Bank operations issue? And being that the Land Bank is such a crucial part of our housing strategy, why doesn't the proposed budget include more for operations?
Do you? Well -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Well, I mean, I think it also has to deal with the fact that there are some positions that currently need to be filled at the Land Bank. And Angel can talk about what exactly those positions are, but right now, there are openings for positions that will allow for the Land Bank to keep on going and actually respond to the task at hand when it comes to the home plan.
So we have two vacancies: we have a real estate director position, and we have one project manager position.
I seem to remember, I mean, we had a hearing not too long ago, and you were pretty clear about the additional capacity that we -- that we need.
And I seem to see that here. And while we're on the topic of the hearing, we had this hearing back in the fall, we received testimony from almost 60 stakeholders. After the hearing, Councilmember Lozada, and I emailed you a summary of the top 10 recommendations, and we sent that, like, six weeks ago. So can you first speak to the request for additional staff and how it matches to our discussion during the hearing? And next, can we expect to receive a response from you and to meet with you as requested during this budget cycle on the recommendations?
So since that hearing, we have brought on an extra attorney. The position, there's still a vacancy in project management, and there's still a real estate director position that's open. Property management is obviously an ongoing issue, and previously what I had spoken about were issues that were related to lawsuits that we had for conservatorship cases, which were unexpected costs to the Land Bank in excess of $300,000. That includes demolition costs, settlement fees, outside legal fees. So those all impacted the FY25 budget. As it relates to the letter that you had sent, I had shared it with the administration. I'll be more than happy to meet with you and Councilwoman Lozada.
Thank you. We look forward to that. And I want to continue to have a discussion about the capacity we need at the Land Bank as we continue this budget process. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Thank you, Council Lady. And I also want to just add onto that because, you know, when the Land Bank first came to fruition, there -- it was with great fanfare and there was a lot of, you know, sort of hope and ideas in terms of what it was going to do to whittle down the, you know, tens of thousands of city-owned government owned properties here in the city of Philadelphia. And so can you give us an idea as to how many -- from its inception to now, how many properties has actually come through the Land Bank? How much property have you actually disposed of through the Land Bank?
Give me one second, I can tell you. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Okay.
So in total, we have disposed over 1,017 properties, MADAM CHAIR BASS: One thousand?
Seventeen. Each year we have increased our capacity and disposition, obviously with the advent of MPI that those numbers started to increase exponentially. MADAM CHAIR BASS: So what's the total universe of properties? What's the total number of properties?
Right now, we have about 6,000 properties across all agencies. That's a public -- that's department of public property, that's the cityowned properties, the Redevelopment Authority, the Land Bank, and PHDC. MADAM CHAIR BASS: So in my -- you know, my humble opinion, the Land Bank should be working its way out of business?
Correct. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Because if the idea is to get rid of these properties, and so at 325 properties this year?
That's proposed for acquisition for this year. Right now and currently, what we have identified for disposition is more along the lines of 583 properties. MADAM CHAIR BASS: So 500 properties roughly?
580, it's closer to 600. MADAM CHAIR BASS: So is that on average per year?
That's an increased average, yeah. MADAM CHAIR BASS: That's an increased average?
Uh-huh. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Okay. And so you don't see that as going down, do you?
No. I think as we look -- work closely with Council, we've started conversations with various councilmembers about issuing RFPs. Once we have that pipeline going, the issue is to keep it going. It does take a while to get dispositions moving through the approval phase, and then all of a sudden the entitlement phase. I will say that we were working closely with Planning and Development, and we have a working team with them. We're working with SEPTA, we're working with PHA, all in an effort to really streamline that regulatory environment, and see where we can actually fast track. MADAM CHAIR BASS: We're also considering items where maybe the Land Bank will do certain things to make disposition easier and development easier by --
It could be consolidating a lot, asking for change in zoning, like we've asked certain districts to go from RSA-5 to RSA-6 to really address what we actually have in the inventory. So all of those items have been happening and we are moving forward with a higher level of coordination. But I can't stress enough that, because development takes a while to maintain that pipeline. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Sure. So -- and one last question, which is: What was the original? Do you -- do you know what the original universe was when we first started the Land Bank? And I think that was like 2014.
Anecdotally, it was 8,000. MADAM CHAIR BASS: It was 8,000?
Yeah. We've done a lot of work to really refine that number. A significant portion of that, the 6,000 is part of sales, but also refining that we do manage land that will not be disposed of, because we don't have a viable partner to dispose of. A lot of that to Councilmember Brooks and Gauthier's concerns about gardeners, we do have a lot of neighborhood gardeners that are actively utilizing a space. We know they're not in a position to actually take on the title -MADAM CHAIR BASS: Sure.
-- and responsibilities, so those are owned and managed properties. So we've done a lot of work to do that. Certain properties just won't be disposed of, or others are not developable because they're too small. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Got you. So -- and I'm just going to say this because I know we have other folks who have questions, but we went from a universe of 8,000 properties, and say, I think it was 2014?
I'd give you a heart attack. MADAM CHAIR BASS: But I do think it was higher than 8,000. I thought it was a lot higher than 8,000, so I'm surprised to hear that number.
So I think what you -- when we started the Land Bank, just so we're aware, there's a report out that says there are 40,000 vacant lots -- MADAM CHAIR BASS: That's the number I was thinking, yeah.
-- throughout the city. The city has percent of that at the beginning 13 of the Land Bank. And when I came 14 on by 2017, that was an inventory of 15 8,000. So now we have 6,000. 16 MADAM CHAIR BASS: So that 17 40,000 is what? 18
That's 19 privately held properties. 20 MADAM CHAIR BASS: Oh, so -- oh, so that's not city owned, that's privately owned property?
Correct. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Okay. Okay. But I just want to say this, to go from 8,000 over years to 6,000, and how much -- what kind of budget we've had for the Land Bank for the last years to years? 6
It's been 7 level funded at 3 million. 8 MADAM CHAIR BASS: You 9 know, it doesn't feel very efficient 10 or effective. And I know that y'all are working hard on it, but I'm just saying, you know, like anybody, if this, you know, like if this was a business, if I was in the business of managing this and I went from 8,000, my goal is to get as close to zero as possible, and over 11 years I go from 8,000 to 6,000, you know, I'd be out of business probably. So just a thought, just my thought. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Council, if I may add. If I may add? MADAM CHAIR BASS: Sure. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: You know, it -- we recognize the power of the Land Bank and the optimal kind of pace it should be operating at, right? But we also recognize that there are some other factors external to it in other departments as well. Knowing that, one, you know, when developers do get to a point where they have received all approvals necessary. You know, we need to be able to get them to a point where they can get through the entitlements process faster. And I think as a city, what we end up doing when we do that, we make it a better place to do business. And I think there's a, you know, bit of a stigma in doing business with the Land Bank when it comes to the purchasing of publicly owned and because of that timeline you've described. So making sure that we're making a comprehensive effort to attack it and make sure that we are, you know, eliminating time tax, not just at the Land Bank, but the, the external departments that have a part in the role of development here in the city of Philadelphia, that's important to us too under DPD.
Well, you know, I don't want to belabor the point, but I -- but I get what you're saying and I don't want to -- you to feel it as if I'm blaming you because y'all weren't there from the beginning. But I'm just saying that in 11 years, if we know that there's a problem with the timeline and the efficiency in working with other departments, I just don't see how it is that we haven't figured that out yet so, but I want to recognize Councilmember Harrity.
Thank you, Councilwoman. How are you? Everybody's going good today? Just a quick one. The preferred budget includes around 2 million in increase for positions and consulting related to the H.O.M.E. Initiative. I know we're not actually talking about the home, I just want to know about the contracts and the positions. Are these increases part of the Mayor's proposed 2 billion? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So the increase in staffing that you see are, yes. They are a part of the H.O.M.E. Initiative to be able to staff up and respond to the anticipated amount of work that will come as a result of that home plan. Does that answer your question?
Part of it. How many positions are you planning to hire and how many consultants are you planning on hiring with the $2 million? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So the positions that are going to be up under DPDs, that's about 32 positions, I believe, right. The consultants will be funded through an extent of being able to get us to a point of where we are going to implement. I mean, they were brought on earlier this year -- late last year, to be able to assist us with looking at ways of doing things not just differently, but efficiently and creatively thinking about a lot of the work that they've done in other places along the lines of helping other places with their housing plans, bringing that knowledge into us, into our world here in Philadelphia, helping us understand what works here, and what can work here from other places as well. But the consultants will be funded not from the bond plan, but the remainder of -- the remainder of their work will be funded through the FY26 budget.
Okay. So 32 positions is what you're saying that you're going to hire with the $2 million? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: That is what we will -- won't be -- it will be for the $2 million effort. It will be for the house, excuse me, $2 billion. Did you say 2 million or 2 billion? I'm sorry.
2 million. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Oh, okay, yes. Well, I -- we say 2 billion talking about the plan.
Yeah, because that 32 positions at 2 million, that doesn't sound like we're paying them much, but, you know, like they're -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Well, I mean, there -- it's program management, it's clerical, it's project management as well. It's, you know, HR, it's Comms. It's a combination of different kind of productive roles that need to really allow for things that, you know, the production of the implementation carrying out, you know, HR, because if we're going to be bringing people in --
Are they civil service positions or union positions? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: They're civil service.
Civil service and union or -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: I believe they're union as well, but we can get you the breakdown of what those positions are as well.
Oh, please. And then just real quick, I heard the bell, but Ms. Martinez, I just -- and this is a yes or no, I just didn't catch the container village part. Are they going to be able to apply for some of that grant funding also, just like the regular -- DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: The businesses themselves?
Yes. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Sure. They should, yeah. Yes.
Oh, okay. All right, good. Yeah, I'd like to get some more information about that. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Sure.
So that I can pass it on. I'm sure Curtis, Councilman Jones would like you to. That's it. Thank you. Thank you very much. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Young.
Thank you. My question -- my first question, I guess is for Alba talking about the Nighttime Economy. I know Commerce just released a report saying Nighttime Economy, you know, can generate up to $15 billion in our city. What -- can you tell us what is going on with the Fishtown Food Truck and other initiatives that are happening to spur this nighttime economy in our city? DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Yes, thank you for the question. The Food Truck project is still of great interest to the Commerce Department. It has not been implemented because, you know, I'll own it, I made a decision that I did not want to approve a program that was not in compliance with the law. I thought that we were taking on too much risk, and there was a, you know, a desire to have this program run past the hours that the law currently allows us to operate. And so we're now in the process of ensuring that we can get that type of legal support in order to launch this pilot. However, it is an idea that we support and we hope that this will be the year where we can actually execute it. We were -- we were disappointed by the delay, but, you know, sometimes you have to make tough decisions in my role. And I had to make the unfortunate decision to slow that project down.
Was this the city law or state law that you felt you were not in compliance with? DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: The city -- the city regulations don't allow food trucks to operate past a certain amount of time during the night. And if we were to allow that, you know, there was some conversations about, well, maybe the city can allow non-enforcement, but I can tell you that as a lawyer, if something goes wrong, I don't think that that holds water. So we just need the, you know, the regulation to match the pilot. And we have spoken to Councilman Squilla about supporting us in terms of coming to council requesting authorization to run a pilot that will extend past midnight.
Well, if that's an issue, you can cross Girard Avenue and come to the fifth council district, and I'll be more than happy to introduce legislation to increase those particular hours. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Well, thank you so much for that. There will be room. I think this is a really great program and needed, and I think that there should and will be room for more of these across council districts. Thank you so much for that opportunity.
Thank you. DIRECTOR MARTINEZ: Anything you want to add? MADAM CHAIR BASS: Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Phillips.
Thank you, Chairwoman. Just a question for the Department of Public Planning -- the department of Planning and Development, excuse me. You have mentioned earlier that, you know, you're going to be focused on, you know, some quality of life issues. How does the department of -- department plan to use this budget to enhance public green spaces that involve vacant land? So could DPD provide an update on how funding will be used to continue to, or expand programs like LandCare to improve curb appeal, landscaping, and overall neighborhood aesthetics? Also, you have a timeline for execution. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Sure. I'd like to call up Deputy Director Mark Dodds about -- to talk about our LandCare program and how DHCD works with that.
Good afternoon, Councilperson. Last year during the FY25 budget process, there was a substantial increase to funding that goes towards the PHS LandCare program. That funding through general fund comes across three different organizations, and DHCD holds the contract. Annually, this city cleans and greens over 12,000 lots, but a big difference that happened through a mid-year transfer this year is that an additional 1.7 million was added to the budget to allow for the year-round cleaning of vacant lots. So there have been significant investments last year, and we expect those to continue this year.
So yes, you clean them, but the part I'm trying to say is like adding to the landscaping part, which is, you know, gardening as well as other appeals to make sure that it looks like a welcoming community. So like flowers, signs, things of the sort that would help the curb appeal of the space, additional trees, that type of situation.
Yes, so the program also does include some tree planting, it also includes that hallmark white picket fence that you see to kind of delineate that this lot is in fact cleaned by the LandCare program and it receives maintenance multiple times a month to keep debris off those lots.
Well, we have a couple of lots that haven't received in our own district, and I'm sure I've also driven by other people's districts in the city that probably could utilize some landscaping, not just cutting, but more like some actually planting the flowers as well as other signs, paint, all that and more around medians and so forth. I just don't know if you all are actively looking at those public properties, or we have to tell you, because I think we know where all of the medians are that the city owns, and a lots that the city owns, but I just don't know if you're actively working to do the curb appeal without someone telling you that, Hey, we need flowers here and we need other things.
Yeah. There is a -- there's a stabilization process in the fall and spring in which new lots are added to the inventory. We get -- we solicit input from a range of partners, but we'd be interested, you know, if there are specific lots or areas that you'd like us to target, we'd certainly be open to hearing what they are, or where they are. Also, we try and coordinate around specific initiatives, whether they're, you know, if we're looking to combat crime or something like that, we might choose to focus on areas that have high crime, for instance.
Got you. All right. Thank you. And is there a general timeline of when this takes place?
Yeah. In this -- so right now we're gearing up, we we're coordinating with PHS for the fall stabilization. So we're about two seasons behind in a cyclical way.
Okay. Thank you, Chairwoman Bass. MADAM CHAIR BASS: Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Rourke. Oh, not here, sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilmember Kathy Gilmore- Richardson.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. I wanted to just get a couple of additional questions on the record specifically from your Department of Planning and Development detail. I'll start with -- it's in Section 56, , under housing development, rental assistance, homeless, we have in the FY '26 proposed budget $108,000. And then under housing counseling, $3,392,000. Does that housing counseling line item include the housing counseling agencies that also work with the Tangled Title Fund? And then additionally, because I just -- I know we're in the second round, I want to get all of this in here. But there's also under Section 56, , under the Homelessness Prevention Program, $1 million includes an array of shelter diversion and homeless prevention activities. This includes emergency assistance when eviction or mortgage foreclosure is imminent. And finally, under section 6 -- finally under Section 56, 82, again for housing counseling, counseling services for low and moderate income residents facing mortgage, foreclosure, tenant- landlord conflicts, and housing related problems. Could you just detail those allocations for me? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Are we able to -- we can get that information for you.
I'll go back. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: It's pretty extensive information.
Okay. And I'm just -- so is that general fund only or is that across all funding sources that you're looking at?
Right. So as an example for , it's under the Community Development Fund. For , it's under Housing Trust. And then, again, under 82, Housing Trust.
Got it. Okay. Thank you. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: I think it'd be important for us to put that all on one page for you, so you see how that stacks together.
Okay. That'll be great, because really what I was concerned about was understanding the line items for the legal service and aid organizations and the housing counseling organizations, as well as the homelessness prevention eviction diversion and mortgage foreclosure assistance dollars in particular. Because one of those line items, I think it was around the -- around the foreclosure prevention or housing counseling for families potentially facing homelessness has changed from the FY24 actual obligation has actually gone down. That's particular -- in particular for shelter diversion and homelessness prevention when eviction and more closure -- and mortgage foreclosure is imminent. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: We can get you that detail.
Okay. Thank you very, very much. Thank you, Mr. President.
Thank you, Majority Leader. Just real quick, Jessie, and I will do a follow-up. And we -- and we'll go over it all offline. And so that 50 million, right, that came from the MPI? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yes.
That won't be a part of the eight -- part of the $800 million plan? DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Not at all. Not at all. Those are two separate numbers.
That 50 million is already agreed upon to fund. I think it's three separate initiatives, which is the alleyways, driveways -- DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Prevention and preservation as well.
Because right now that basic system repairs eating up, Mr. Thomas over there is spending all our money, but doing a great job of rehabbing individual homes, and so I just want to make sure there's a level of clarity regarding that particular 50 million. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yeah, we certainly don't want to say that, you know, that 50 million is baked into the 800 million. I think that we're understanding that there is something left and there is a series of programs that we also would like to see going on.
Yes. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: And if there's a thought about where those programs live now and where they live in the home plan, we wanted to be clear about that detail between the two.
Oh, yeah, that's cool. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yeah.
But I just want to be clear that that 50 is already committed to three particular areas, which I'm already actually briefing my members on as we speak, based upon their priorities. And so may we talk offline and make sure we all on the same page about that particular 50. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: That's fine. I didn't want to imply otherwise.
Council President, if I may? John Mondlak, Deputy Director for Planning and Development. You had asked earlier about driveways, you just brought it up again and I just wanted to -- we could follow-up with writing for sure, but I just wanted to put on the record that there have been 139 driveways completed.
Speak up a little louder. 139 driveways completed?
139 driveways completed. We expect to complete 50 to 60 more, and there's been 720 trees addressed.
I see the gentleman from the 9th Councilmatic District in the Northwest would like to be recognized regarding them driveways.
All right. Thank you. Just really quickly, I just want to address a few things. I know it's very difficult. The driving program is going well, people love it. However, the process could be stronger. And I just wanted to see if you can work with our MPI team to really strengthen the process. We need to have, as district councilmembers, it has to be a level of a timeline. I know people are told immediately that they're qualified for the driveway if they're eligible, but they -- and they said whether permitting this is what will happen, but if we can give them a sense of -- a better sense of like, by what month, by what time they should reach out again if they don't hear something as opposed --
Is that a point of information, Phillips, you asked another question?
So the question is, are you all working on with the MPI team strengthening the process to deliver the driveways, as well as the other programs such as the alleyways and so forth to make sure that process is a lot more transparent and clear to residents going forward as funding is still limited? Thank you. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: Yeah. The answer to your question is yes, we are.
Thank you, Dr. Phillips. I know you have a very strong interest with the Northwest regarding them driveways, but good job, sir. I appreciate that. We got driveways in the South, too, though, in the Girard estate area. They have them down in Girard estate. That's a she-she neighborhood, though, but, you know, it's all good. I support everybody. The Chair recognizes Member Bass, then Dr. Nina Ahmad, then Councilmember Jeffrey J. Young, then Councilmember Jamie Gauthier.
Thank you, Mr. President. Yeah, and we have some driveways in the 8th District too.
You got some driveways in the 8th District as well, yeah.
So question for you around Act 135, the Conservatorship rule law. And I noticed, I saw David Thomas over there in the cut. It looks like he's hiding, I don't know why. So I didn't know if this was -- it was his specialty, but I wanted to get a sense of Act 135 and the impact that it's had on funding for agency, particularly PHDC and the like. And what has been the impact, and what has been the cost to the city because -- and maybe you could go through and further explain that once someone applies for a property through the Conservatorship Act that there are debts and obligations that are required from the city if that -- if that transaction doesn't go through. DIRECTOR LAWRENCE: So we see Angel Rodriguez up here to pretty much answer that question in the depth that I think you're looking at.
Okay. So the two agencies that have been impacted by it are the Land Bank and the Philadelphia Redevelopment Authority. The issue with the Act 135, and first I want to just note, really appreciative of the work that Councilmember Young is doing on this issue. I think it really does need to be raised and brought to the forefront. The problem with Act 135, with the changes that were done a couple of years ago, is that it doesn't require a notice. So as soon as someone files a conservatorship, if you are the owner of that property, irrespective of whether you're an authority or a Land Bank, you are now in the legal process, you are now a defendant, and you then are subject to at best a settlement. So the question is, is the property blighted?
So the petitioner files it. Once you're in there, if you're the owner of that subject property, you then have to prove that it is not blighted or a blighted element, you then -- and the question at hand for the judge is really, do they award conservatorship, which entitles to the conservator to even more actually control of the property. They can rehab the property, sell it, and take a portion of the -- of the revenue from the sales. It's an -- it's extremely problematic for chartered agencies like the Redevelopment Authority, which is chartered to eliminate blight throughout the city and follows a public process. It's subject to Sunshine laws, as well as the Land Bank, which the city and the state have chartered to operate on -- much on the same way. What this does, it circumvents the disposition process and there is no public discourse. It then becomes a legal action. The impact to the agencies has been that we are now defending a situation. It costs us between the two agencies close to $700,000. And this is not, you know, budgeted funds, especially now for the Land Bank and definitely not for the Redevelopment Authority.
Over what period of time has that $700,000 cost been?
That -this started -- we started getting filings in earnest in '23 and through '24.
Wait, time out. Excuse me. Let's go on the record on this one. Somebody sits on your board, goes after city of Philadelphia parcel property, isn't that a conflict of interest? That's like the fox in the -- in the --