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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - May 20, 2025

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)May 20, 20251h 46m

Mike. Edith? Hello. Hello, everyone. Hi, Edith. Could you state your name and spell for the

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stenographer? Yes, it is E-D. The correct spelling is E-D-I-T-H. Okay. Last name?

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And it's Clark. C-L-A-R-K. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,

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the whole truth nothing but the truth excuse me i do are you a neighbor cold are you a neighbor

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yes sir all right please proceed i just want to say that i i did attend the rca meeting the second

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one um and there was a lot going on on on i'm gonna say on both behalves uh with miss minor

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advocating what she's trying to do for the neighborhood. And I believe it's really for

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a good cause. And as far as the neighbors, I'm just going to say on our behalf, it's just

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some miscommunication, some things that were said to us. I was not aware fully until I attended

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the meeting, what Ms. Miner was actually doing. I would just say between the neighbors and us

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talking and polls of me really paying attention and attending the meeting, it really went well,

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meaning I really value what she was doing, what she wants to do, and her coming over and speaking

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with us engaging with us letting us know that her home is open and willing to talk with us

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you know i felt that it was like a really good excuse me invite are you in favor of this project

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i am in favor i just wish that more people would just stop gossiping and just listen to what she's

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doing all right all right thank you very much for taking the time to call us we appreciate it

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Was that the last hand?

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No, Chair, we have two more hands up,

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Charles Karn and Dulce Coyote.

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Charles has been promoted to panelists.

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Good morning, Charles.

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Could you please state your name

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and spell for the stenographer?

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Charles?

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Hello, Charles Karn. Mr. Karn, could you please state your name? It's bell for the stenographer. Charles, C-H-A-R-L-E-S-C-A-R-N. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir. You're the head of the RCO, am I correct? Yes, sir. Please proceed.

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Sir, as stated, we had two RCO meetings. One was filed as a group, a daycare, and the other one as the group home for the children.

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Let me first start with an opening statement. I feel slandered and disrespected by the applicant and Vern.

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So chairperson, to run a meeting of this magnitude is rough.

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Chairperson, to run a meeting of this.

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I try to stay focused on what the referral or the refusal is about.

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And that's why I'm trying to pull everybody in.

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Everybody wants to speak.

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I've got to mute a couple of folks because of going back and forth.

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One of the directly neighbors who live right there thought something was going on and it wasn't filed.

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So I guess they came back with a filing and that's where we started.

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The lawyer stated they have many vacant homes around it. That's incorrect.

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I just feel bad about that. I've been in the neighborhood for over 42 years, right and walking distance.

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so that's not a problem for me. One of the things that happened is, and I think the program is a

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great program, and it's a business, and this is putting a business in the RSA3 district here.

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Also, some of the things that people who did speak did not live in the community, and I allowed

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them to speak and gave them an audience. I didn't cut

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anybody off, but there was also a lot

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of interruptions going on, and that's what I was trying to stay focused on.

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During the presentation,

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I wasn't nitpicking, and I wasn't as the person

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who was the moderator, but she also said that she's going to have two

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staff members 24-7. If you look on that first floor,

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that's the back bedroom back there. Now, what we were told it was only

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one person there, so I don't know where that came from.

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And I do understand the direct of 3,800. Some of the

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issues that came up was about

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one of the directly said, look, right, if the

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business goes there, how will it affect my property value?

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And many thought it would decrease their value of their home if you

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had a group home there. And some of the issues she did explain about the trauma that may come

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with this business being approved there. So that's why they opposed it. If you look at our package

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that we submitted, the 13th Ward, we have probably 90 signatures of the directly affected residents.

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And if you look all the way down, all the way through, that's Venango Street, Erie Avenue, 22nd Street, and 21st Street.

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These are people who live right there.

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We, they did put some letters out, and like someone said, everybody, some people came on and said they did not get a letter.

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So what we do is when we put a flyer out, whatever, we always say in that particular area, please notify your neighbor.

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Now, when you do log on to a 13th Ward RCO meeting, we ask you, how do you know about the meeting and where do you live at?

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So we can get so we can almost vet, you know, who's on.

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Well, a couple of the folks did not want to give their address.

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They just said, I live in a neighborhood.

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And they were pro for the business.

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So that was our concern, is, again, what's going to affect the people who live right there?

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And if anyone comes on to a 13th Ward RCO community meeting, I try to stay as focused as possible, trying to narrow and not get too far away from why we're on that meeting, sir.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Mr. Corn, hold on a minute.

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Vern, do you have any questions? No, I do not. Okay. Mr. Corn,

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thanks for taking the time to call. Sure. I appreciate it. Anyone else in the audience?

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Yes, Chair. The last person they'll say is being promoted to panelists. Okay.

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could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer um they'll say d-u-l-c-e

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coil c-o-y-o-t-l right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the

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truth yes are you a neighbor no all right um are you in favor this project or against

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yes are you in favor or against in favor thank you for taking the time to calls we do appreciate it

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thank you um that planning commission mr chair i'm sorry chair we do have one more hand up

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number ending in 3552 they have been allowed to speak

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Number ending in 3552, they have been allowed to speak.

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shake.

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Hello?

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Hi.

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Adrienne, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?

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Yes, Adrienne Fernandez.

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My last name is spelled F-E-R-N-A-N-D-E-Z, one little R-C-O.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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Yes.

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Adrian, are you for the project or against?

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Opposed, and I would like to give some more information.

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Please.

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Okay.

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First of all, I had to request a corrected or amended refusal on December 4, 2024, and that was completed.

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Neighbors probably were confused because the first refusal asked for a boarding house.

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The second one, corrected one, asked for commercial child care, and that gave the impression that we were talking about occupants between the ages of infancy and 12.

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So I know one person had said that they were a bit confused about what the project was about, and part of that was that the original refusal was incorrect.

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But the Tioga area where this address is located has too many group homes, and over the years, the affected RCOs in the area have worked hard to not increase the number of group homes.

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There's group homes of every type, many with high-risk residents, and this would fall in that category.

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Um, I, I respect the, um, the one, uh, graduate of the program who is doing very well. And she also talked about how her, the program helped her father. Um, however, two people to control, um, 12 high risk occupants is risky for the neighborhood in general, especially being as they are teenagers.

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Of course, today is voting day, so that made it difficult for neighbors to come on to the Zoom

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or to actually physically attend the hearing.

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And another issue is we're not clear whether this is going to be a maximum or a request

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for a maximum of nine teenagers or 12 teenagers

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because the appeal application says 12,

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but I heard the owner today say nine.

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So there needs to be more discussion if this was approved

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and before it is approved because this is a high-risk project

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in a RSA for any residential community,

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And this committee really has too many. The only ones that don't cause a problem are the veterans housing and senior housing.

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But a lot of the transitional housing has been very difficult for a child and has contributed to people moving out and the decline, which we are trying to reverse.

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And we have been pretty successful in doing that over the past 10 years.

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That's pretty much the most important comment that I have.

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I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. Do you have any questions? No, I just object to Adrienne's entire testimony.

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Her testimony that group homes, there's too many in this particular neighborhood. We don't even

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know where she's getting her information. Classifying these children as high risk is

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inaccurate and offensive. And I'm going to leave it at that. Thank you. Okay, thank you.

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I do have a closing though, Mr. Chair. Do you have your closing?

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I do, and I'll be really quick. We just spent a considerable amount of time going through the materials, 110 pages. You heard specific evidence of professionalism, of programming, of dealing with the issues in the community, of dealing with issues in the house. There is a program and a plan for all of it.

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um so uh you know we've overwhelmingly met our burden because this is a referral not a refusal

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in demonstrating a clean professional home that will be you know will nurture these these girls

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what you didn't hear is one protestant testify that met their burden uh you didn't hear one

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shred of evidence that this particular home would adversely impact anyone uh you there was no

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testimony or evidence given that my client could not adequately run this home. And it is a

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residential home. This, it's not a business. It's a, so that's also, also.

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It's not a business. So that's also, and I'm sure it's obvious to the board, this isn't a popularity contest, okay? This is a court of law. Whether I have five pages of supporters and they have 15 pages of opponents, none of that matters.

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What matters is, will this use adversely impact the community or impact the community at all

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any more than a place like this should?

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And the answer, based on overwhelming evidence, is that it will not have an adverse impact.

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And Kayla, the young woman who testified, I challenge anyone to tell me that Kayla is

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going to bring down anyone's real estate value if she moves into this house. So thank you for

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listening. Thank you very much. Planning Commission. Thank you, Chairman, and good

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morning. David Fecteau, F-E-C-T-E-A-U, with the City Planning Commission. Do you swear or affirm

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to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir, I do. Please proceed. Thank

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you, sir. Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends a change in

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zoning at this location from rsa3 residential single family to rm1 residential multi-family

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under the proposed zoning group child care would be permitted by special exception as well

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the appellant has shown that the proposed special exception will have no detrimental impacts beyond

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what might be expected the city planning commission recommends the board grant the

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proposed special exception for group child care hold on our attorney wants to say something here

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yes um mr chair i wasn't aware that there was a corrected refusal here so um it if the

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if the board would indulge me i'd like to hold the ask for the vote we're gonna hold okay because i

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just i want to check into that because we want to make sure we're voting on the correct refusal

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so a referral thank you so verne we're going to hold this vote uh we've heard a lot from

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both sides for this and we want to sit and just work it out among ourselves where we stay

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can i ask a question here sure question the um so if you're going to have individuals there

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between 18 and 20 they're not children 14 and 20 well i'm saying but there's some if somebody's

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going to be serviced that's 18 years older or more. That's not a child. How are we talking

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about a child care? You know what I mean? Well, that's a classification that I'll leave to L&I,

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but as a father of a 19-year-old, he's completely dependent on, these young people are completely

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dependent on... There's a 30-year-old that lives in your basement. By law, an 18-year-old is an

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adult. So how is that a child? You know what I mean? Well, that's something for L and I to deal

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with. So what all has been said, Vern, the board needs some time to take a look at this. We will

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vote on this next Wednesday at 9 30 a.m. So what's the date next Wednesday? The 28th. The 28th. We

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will vote on this at 9 30 a.m. Thank you very much. We appreciate your one other point to Mr.

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John's question. It's very, very important. The child is in, in school at 18, 19, and 20 years old.

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They, in fact, can be dependent. So that's just something to think about. I don't know how that

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impacts the classification for L&I. That's for them. But I just wanted to put that on the record

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in the event we need to take this further. You said that. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll consider

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that all will be thank you this week okay thank you number four mi 2024 004 330 437 north 52nd

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street tamika mccoy is the attorney this is a resumptive hearing good morning everyone good

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morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer sure tamika mccoy

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t-a-m-i-k-a last name is m-c capital k o-y do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth

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nothing but the truth yes um so we this is a resumptive hearing and the way we um have uh

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have outlined this there'll be a presentation by you and or your applicant on updated plans

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We will then have questions from the board, from our council.

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We'll take public testimony and the planning commission will make a recommendation.

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So why don't you start, council, and give us an update of where you stand.

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Sure. I will start kind of from the back.

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We did have an RCO hearing in which there was support for the project.

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an RCO hearing in which there was support for the project. There were concerns that the neighbors

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had expressed that the owner had contemplated to incorporate within the design of the plan.

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When we initially had presented, I had submitted the application. Essentially, it is an application

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to seek a variance to create a daycare on one floor and a residential unit on the second floor.

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It's a three-floor structure that has a basement, a first floor, and a second floor.

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The issue was the design of the plan in terms of the trash plan.

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Again, we have here a copy of the refusal.

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This is a photograph of the front of the building.

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There are two doors, one that enters the second floor unit, one that will enter the first floor unit.

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The basement has a bill called door access.

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This is looking directly across the street.

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And then this is looking to the property.

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property. There are other businesses also on the same block. Along the side here is going to be a

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ramp. And that ramp is going to be ADA compliant for disabled persons to be able to get in and out

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of the daycare or for mothers to just be able to use the ramp to use a stroller if need be.

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This is a post of the sign here. And I'm going to go straight to the plans so that we could

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Let's see exactly what it's contemplated in this design.

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The center depicts essentially the daycare location.

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Oh, my apologies. What would the yard and an office or a bathroom area that would daycare facility? So that way you can have the front door entrance, the side entrance that's accessible from the ramp, and also a back door entrance.

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The trash plan contemplates that the trash will essentially go to the rear of the yard and then will be brought to the front on a day at the back of the ramp so that the trash could be taken to the back of the yard.

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On the second floor is a living room kitchen space here with a three-piece bathroom, sleeping areas in the front and also in the rear, and there's also another bedroom here.

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The ceiling heights for the second and the third floor is 10 foot, so it'll be 10 foot high ceilings.

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the lower level basement is actually going to be used as a prep space for the daycare.

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In that basement area is going to be a bathroom as well, but the office and a prep area for

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prepared lunches and breakfast would be downstairs. So this is where

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refrigerator, all of that kind of stuff would be, and this is where the actual office for staff

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would be. What I'm going to do, let me see if I can, I'm not sure if that would be helpful. Is

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this better for you? That's better. Okay. And I'm going to zoom in just a little.

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The basement has a seven foot ceiling height, but the other floors are 10 foot.

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That was one of the questions that came up during the last meeting as well.

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