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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 31, 2009

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 31, 2009

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Mr. Greenberger

Agreed.

Council President Verna

Councilman Rizzo, did you have a point of order?

Councilman Rizzo

I did. And I appreciate the opportunity. In your conversation about the Dell, there was a comment made about water runoff. The Kelly Drive has recently been resurfaced, and whoever was responsible for that did a great job; it's a lot safer roadway, in my opinion. But for years, I've been 71 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 pointing out the water runoff, especially during this time of year and also into the spring and fall that I don't believe is a part of the water runoff problem that you just described at Robin Hood Dell, but the roadway is constantly wet. Nights where it is dips from 45 to freezing, it's a very dangerous highway condition at that location. Could those wet areas that I've been pointing out to the Streets Department and the Managing Director's Office for years, will that be corrected as a result of the repair to the runoff that you just described? or is that an entirely different issue? And if you're not able to answer, I'm sure there is some here from the Streets Department or Water Department that could tell us why, after all that effort to resurface that road, it's already starting to deteriorate from the water runoff and the dangers associated with the water runoff. 72 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: I think I'd have to defer that to the Streets Department, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Or the Water Department? DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: Or the Water Department.

Mr. Greenberger

Well, I'll -- listen, let us get back to you on that. I would be happy to ask that questing during the hearing --

Councilman Rizzo

Is there anyone here?

Council President Verna

Well, Councilman --

Councilman Rizzo

We'll come back on the next round.

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah. I'd be happy to come back to --

Council President Verna

This is really not germane to the questions that were being asked.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, okay, but it was a part of the project at the 73 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Dell to correct some of the water runoff?

Council President Verna

Okay.

Councilman Rizzo

I think it's a part of that project, Madam President.

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah, it's -- it's -- I mean, again, I'm sort of guessing here, but likely, given the length of the Kelly Drive, that whatever solutions are found at the Dell might solve the problem immediately around the Dell, but obviously, that's a big hill coming down for three-and-a-half miles, and so it can't possibly be solving all of it, and I will ask that question --

Councilman Rizzo

It's in that immediate area.

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah.

Councilman Rizzo

But we'll come back to that at another time.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, 74 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Madam President. Good morning.

Mr. Greenberger

Good morning.

Councilman Clarke

Mr. Greenberger, I'd like to follow up on some points with respects to the Council President's questions on the readiness for the Stimulus dollars.

Mr. Greenberger

Mm-hmm.

Councilman Clarke

So it might be good for Mr. Hughes to step back to the table. (Witness comes forward.)

Councilman Clarke

Good morning.

Mr. Hughs

Good morning.

Councilman Clarke

Mr. Hughes, I'm sorry you weren't able to be at our hearing, and I understand we're going to try to reschedule 'cause at that time, we said we would do a follow-up with respects to providing an opportunity for the Administration to lay out its plan. And on several occasions -- and I want to 75 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 say this in a way that I in no way want to appear critical. I'm a little concerned about the resources that you have at your fingertips. There is the potential for a significant amount of money to come to the City of Philadelphia, and I don't know how the inner workings of your department works, but at one point, when the question came up about the Office of Sustainability, they said, "Well, it's Mark Allen Hughes, a phone, and a desk." And you now have an expanded role. And I'm very concerned about your ability to monitor and adequately represent our city as it relates to being able to access this funding, and you probably are too, but you obviously won't say that today. I'm -- when I hear you talk about this process, I don't hear the level of specificity that, frankly speaking, puts us at a comfort level. And I understand that it's a significant 76 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 uncertainty coming out of Washington, but when I hear other municipalities and I even hear other departments -- I mean, at our hearing, SEPTA had a clearly-defined strategy on how they were going to spend their money, the Housing Authority had a clearly-defined strategy on how they were going to spend their money, the School District had two strategies, but they knew how they were going to spend the money. And I guess I hear you talk about process for application. Is it more the application process, or is it the understanding of what we need to be in a position to achieve access? I mean, can you talk -- you know, I have some follow-up questions on some of the things that appear to be somewhat uncertain.

Mr. Hughs

Thank you, Councilman, and I appreciate the spirit of the question about the challenge that certainly exists in trying to get our arms, our collective arms, around the 77 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 recovery. Let me begin my answer to your big question by noting that one of the important differences between the City's strategy for the recovery and some of the other agencies that you mentioned, like SEPTA or the Housing Authority or the School District, is that they have different funding sources largely by formula.

Councilman Clarke

Right.

Mr. Hughs

Both regularly and under the recovery. So it's a little bit easier for them to anticipate exactly how much money they would have. And, of course, they also have more singular missions around that, so they've got projects that, you know, could be matched to that predictable formula funding.

Councilman Clarke

Do you mind, sir, if I jump in?

Mr. Hughs

No, sir. Not at all. 78 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Councilman Clarke

'Cause as a former professor, I know you could take up my five minutes in your response.

Mr. Hughs

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot about the five minutes. I'm sorry, excuse me. (Laughter.)

Councilman Clarke

As an example -- and this is actually a little document that the Council President has asked the Fiscal Stability Commission to put together. And, you know, I think it's halfway decent. As an example, in the document, it talks about highways and public transportation -- highways in particular -- and that's one of the things that this was a cornerstone of this administration. It talks about the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission determining projects in the five-county area that will receive support. They say they've determined that; I don't know. 79 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 And then it says, "including million for resurfacings and repair projects in Philadelphia." How -- is that accurate? I mean, do they have an assessment of how much money will be spent in the City of Philadelphia for street resurfacing? which I think is kind of within our jurisdiction to some degree.

Mr. Hughs

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 12 So there's about -- for just on that 13 specific piece, right, there's over 14 100 -- there's almost $150 million that 15 will be allocated to the DVRPC through the region that will come into the City but not under our control; only the piece that you've talked about there, with the Streets, the $15.6 million that will come to the Streets Department for streets repaving, yes, sir, that is all settled.

Councilman Clarke

So --

Mr. Hughs

And that's an example of the formula working quickly.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. So 80 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 I'm saying, when you're asked questions about the Philadelphia recovery dollars --

Councilman Clarke

-- if you kind of answer in that level of specificity, I think it might give people a little more of a comfort level, 'cause you keep saying, "We don't know the formula." And, like, I get a sense of, like, well, do you really -- do you understand what I'm saying?

Mr. Hughs

Sure. That's a great question.

Councilman Clarke

'Cause I know that you know some things about this 'cause you've been working at it for a while.

Mr. Hughs

Mm-hmm, right. No, and I'm sure I don't know --

Councilman Clarke

So could just kind of let us know and don't keep us in the dark until the end? 81 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely. And that's why, I just want to point out, in the testimony that was read on my behalf last week at the hearing I couldn't attend, the City is well-organized to take advantage of formula funding, $15.6 million being used to repave City streets. I mean, where we know about specifics, we're trying to report that to you as quickly as possible; that being one example, and I've got others that are both in the testimony that was read last week as well as some stuff that's changed since then.

Councilman Clarke

Well, all right. Another issue. (Timer bell rings.)

Councilman Clarke

Let me squeeze out this other question, this last question. And I'm just bringing up examples of some specific natures, like apparently -- and this was actually 82 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 reported in the newspaper -- there is a tax exemption for bond buyers in authorized Economic Recovery Act dollars. In one particular instance, it will save the City $3.8 million on construction projects at the airport. I mean, are you familiar with these types of things?

Mr. Hughs

Yes. In fact, I think I'm probably the source on that. There's a whole set of tax provisions, you know, that represent about 300 billion of the $787 billion in the Recovery Act, so-called stimulus. So we've got, you know, specific things that we're looking at in each of those that are way more complicated than anything on the appropriations side, where I can give you some examples of others. But yes, we are tracking -- especially the Finance Department are tracking those tax provisions and figuring out ways that we could take advantage of them. 83 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Councilman Clarke

At what point will you be in a position to kind of share that with us?

Mr. Hughs

You know, well, what I --

Councilman Clarke

I mean, we really -- we really want to work with you, but --

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

-- it's kind of (indiscernible) 'cause you're not giving us anything, so it's kind of --

Mr. Hughs

No, no. The -- my basic strategy has been to share things as soon as they're so concrete that they have some meaning. That's why the --

Councilman Clarke

In Council, we don't mind if --

Mr. Hughs

No, no --

Councilman Clarke

-- if things that aren't necessarily concrete.

Mr. Hughs

But that's --

Councilman Clarke

I mean, we're dealing with a budget right now -- 84 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

-- that's not concrete, you know.

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely. No, sir. And that's why it has to be --

Councilman Clarke

And (indiscernible) it has to be exact.

Councilman Clarke

It's the professor in you.

Mr. Hughs

No, that's right.

Councilman Clarke

It has to be exact.

Mr. Hughs

But that's when -- that's when -- it's interesting, 'cause that's when the answer is "We don't know yet." And I recognize that that causes some frustration, but sometimes the answer is just "We don't know yet."

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, but sometimes, if you say possibilities. I mean, we don't deal in an exact science here in the government.

Mr. Hughs

No, sir. 85 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Councilman Clarke

So we got to -- like, we really want to know about what the possibilities are.

Mr. Hughs

That's right. And we have some sense of those possibilities. I can tell you, for example, of the competitive -- let me give you 10 just one quick example. Of the 18 11 competitive or discretionary funding 12 opportunities that we are seeking to make 13 applications for, I can tell you three 14 things: 15 I can tell you exactly what the 16 bill specifies is the national pool of 17 funds that we'll be competing for, 'cause 18 that's written in the legislation. I can tell you the exact deadline for the guidance and the applications when it's been issued; and if not, I can tell you who we're waiting on, usually in Washington, to issue Atlanta. And then, third, I can tell you 86 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the exact website that either has the issue guidance on it, which gives all of the rules, or the website at which that guidance will be posted when somebody in Washington makes their financial decision about that. So I can give you the boundaries of what's going to be possible on all of these funding opportunities.

Councilman Clarke

This would be helpful.

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, I believe Councilman Goode also have a point of information. Councilman?

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. A quick follow-up to Councilman Clarke. In terms of specificity -- for example, the Central Library project: Is 87 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 it shovel-ready? is it eligible for Recovery funds? how would that rank as a project that possibly could be ready to go, create jobs, already has other funding in place?

Mr. Hughs

Right. That's a great -- thank you, Councilman, and good morning. It's a great question because it lets me kind of make one point here, which is that there really is no 12 provision in the Recovery for building buildings. There is one opportunity to build a building in the entire $787 billion Recovery Act, and it's $255 million in the Department of Homeland Security for firefighter -- it's called "Firefighter Grants" to build stations in municipalities. Everything else is really very different than what many of us originally had in mind, that there was going to be this big opportunity to build things out of the Recovery and that what we needed 88 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 was a list of things to build. But, in fact, the Recovery is not organized that way; instead, it's more things like, are there energy- efficiency opportunities in the design of the Central Library project that would maybe let us supplement something, so we have to look for the ways those pieces can come together.

Councilman Goode

Just a quick follow-up to that. Is that just true for money that the City directly applies for, or is true for money that's flowing through the State as well?

Mr. Hughs

Well, it's true in general, except for bridges and roads. You're not really building buildings out of the Recovery.

Councilman Goode

Okay. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes 89 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

So, therefore, by earlier discussion about the Dell, it would not fall into this category. If we could put some green out there, do you think we could get some money for it, if we added some trees and stuff around there?

Mr. Hughs

Yes, ma'am. And good morning, Councilwoman. That's exactly the way we're trying to think about this too. It's how creative can we be? Most of what -- when we call it "green" in the Recovery, frankly, almost everything in the Recovery that's green is really about energy efficiency and conservation. So, you know, given that we're not air-conditioning the Dell, it's difficult to find.

Councilwoman Tasco

Maybe we could air-condition the stage. All right, I'm just looking for money for the Dell. 90 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Hughs

Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Me too.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, everyone. How are you doing, Rhina? Forgive me. I didn't see you there. I just want to underscore this interest around the Dell. So with the staff persons that's reporting back the budget and the timeframe, also report back who the contractors are and the subcontractors are so that we know that there are some effort, ongoing effort, to ensure MBE WBE participation?

Mr. Hughs

That's fine. Okay. In your testimony, you mentioned a number of departments that you're working with: 91 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Office of Budget and Program Evaluation, Department of Public Property, MDO's Office. The one department that you do not mention is the Office of Sustainability. And when -- what is this -- thanks to Councilwoman Tasco, I'm now a member of the National League of Cities, where they're making stainability a prime issue. And they state, and I quote: "Of the cities that are already engaged in various activities that relate to sustainability, few have coordinated them in a strategic way or incorporated them as part of their strategic planning process." And so with that in mind, help me understand why the Office of Sustainability would not be a part of all that you're doing now?

Mr. Greenberger

Actually, it's a good question, and it actually is a part of what we're doing. 92 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 As it is not a -- it is not a spending and department the way the departments that are listed in here for Capital Budget, but the way that the department -- that the Office of Sustainability is really working with everybody to infuse ideas about sustainability pretty much in everything we do. And having made that general statement, Mark, if you want to elaborate on it.

Mr. Hughs

Well, recalling Councilman Clarke's earlier comment, I'll try not to elaborate too widely on it, but in the particular context of the Capital Budget, in fact, I believe it's on and 81, one of the things that the Mayor's Office of Sustainability did is that we organized it during the course of the last ten months. It has absorbed the functions as well as the Capital Budget responsibilities of the former Municipal Energy Office. 93 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Hughs

So several lines in there that you may see regarding capital investments around energy efficiency and so on are actually under the purview of the Mayor's Office of Sustainability. So whereas, the executive director is correct that the biggest -- at the biggest scale, we really are working throughout the government as a matrix across all of the operating departments to work with them about sustainability goals and so on. But even within that kind of more complicated picture, we also have a more specific role here regarding energy management and efficiency investments.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Weatherization. Let me see here. It's a huge opportunity for weatherization: Window, door, roof replacement at police stations; window, door replacement at fire stations. How or what is the process for 94 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 ensuring that these blue-collar, some might call, green jobs, which require only a high school -- in most instances, a minimum expectation of a high school diploma, what is in the system that ensures that those who are underemployed, low-income get that dot connected so that they take advantage of these green jobs with all of these dollars coming down the pike?

Mr. Hughs

Yes, ma'am. That is a great question that's near and dear to our hearts. Perhaps the Mayor's greatest interest in the weatherization opportunity and certainly -- probably even in the entire Recovery opportunity is the -- you have exactly outlined is the opportunity that's represented by that money and that work to diversify the workforce in the City of Philadelphia.

Councilwoman Brown

So who's going to be principally responsible for ensuring that that dot's connected?

Mr. Hughs

Principally, it's 95 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the Office of Economic Opportunity.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. And not OHCD?

Mr. Hughs

But also in collaboration with the actual operating department. So OHCD, right? PHCD, which plays an important role in weatherization at this point. And also, one of the things that we've been talking about actually just more recently is about looking for a role for MOCS to play as well --

Councilwoman Brown

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Hughs

-- in ensuring that -- weatherization is a very interesting scope of work, right? because it includes getting inside people's houses --

Councilwoman Brown

Yes.

Mr. Hughs

-- to audit those houses for the work that is needed to be done as well as getting inside people's houses eventually to do the work. So there's a level of 96 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 involvement and engagement in the community and in the neighborhoods, 'cause another important thing to remember about this opportunity is that the weatherization funds are not general; they are targeted to households below 200 percent of the federal poverty line.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Hughs

So, you know, we've got -- the stars are well aligned on this, but looking for who's going to be in the lead under the primary leadership of Deputy Mayor Altman --

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Hughs

-- it's the constellation of housing agencies that current exist and are focusing around this weatherization opportunity.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Who again is going to be ultimately responsible for the movement at the Dell? Who are Councilmembers to look to for accountability? Because -- who is that?

Mr. Greenberger

I think that's 97 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the Department of Public Property, who's managing the project.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay, then. This article in the paper that, quote, no place -- (Timer bell rings.)

Councilwoman Brown

I'll plant the seed. There's an article in the paper: No place for minorities at center expansion. Or is inexperience the problem? The ongoing issue of MBE/WBE participation or lack thereof. And a view that the City's not pushing the needle to fix that. So I'll plant the seed, and we'll revisit that on the next round. Thank you, Madam Chair. (Vice Chairwoman Tasco assumes chair.)

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 98 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 I'd just like to get some information on more specific information on fire-station improvements. And I know in the book, it talks about that there's a design to construct multi-phase restorations of kitchens and bathroom facilities at fire stations. 9 But more specifically, the fire 10 station at Germantown Avenue and 11 Carpenter Lane desperately needs -- the 12 floor desperately needs to be repaired. 13 Is that included -- is that included in 14 any of these renovations? 15 And it's been like that for a 16 while. The cement's breaking up, it's 17 crumbling; you can actually see the 18 steel -- the steel bolts, I guess, that 19 goes across the floor where the fire 20 truck backs in, and water runs all 21 through. 22 Can anyone say if that is on the 23 list to be repaired? 24 DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: 25 Councilwoman, Gary Knappick, Public 99 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Property. Would you happen to know the number of that engine company?

Councilwoman Miller

I don't know the number; I just know it's on Germantown Avenue at Carpenter Lane. I can find the number. DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: I believe that's where it has a floor problem.

Councilwoman Miller

Excuse me? DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: I believe there's a floor problem.

Councilwoman Miller

Yeah, it's a terrible floor problem. DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: Yeah, and there's some water infiltration.

Councilwoman Miller

I go there to get gas, and it's been like that now for a couple of years. And, you know, you kind of think that maybe the truck might even fall in it. I mean, it's just getting worse and worse. And so, I just wanted to know if it's on the list to be repaired. 100 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: That is -- if I recall correctly, that is for an out-year that -- I think you'll see a line in there for structural renovations for FY '11 of 400-and-some-thousand dollars. And that is a part of that project.

Councilwoman Miller

For Year 11? DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: I believe so. Sorry, I don't have --

Councilwoman Miller

Can you get the information and forward it to the chair? DEPT. COMM. KNAPPICK: Sure.

Councilwoman Miller

And if you need me, I don't -- well, I don't know the number of that particular fire station.

Mr. Greenberger

It's Engine -- it's Engine 9.

Councilwoman Miller

Engine 9?

Mr. Greenberger

Yes.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. 101 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Thank you. I have a question too -- a couple of things. I just want to also say that I support Councilwoman Tasco's questions regarding the Robin Hood Dell. You know, many of the District Councilpeople put extra money in the pot to deal with the cost overruns, and we would really like to see the Dell construction started and completed in a timely fashion. Would you forward to the Chair -- I want to get information on the past percentages of minority- and women-owned businesses that have participated in these capital projects. And I'd like a breakdown of the dollar-amount of the contract that was awarded to minorities, women, or disabled firm, and how many no-bid contracts were awarded in 2006 through 2009. And would you please forward to the Chair a list of all no-bid contracts and a breakdown by dollar-amounts of the 102 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 contracts awarded again to minorities, women, or disabled firms.

Mr. Greenberger

We will get that information to you. 2006 to 2009?

Councilwoman Miller

Yes.

Mr. Greenberger

Right.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode. No? Okay, great. We're waiting for Councilwoman Blackwell, but we'll move on to Councilwoman Sanchez. When we do a point of order, it changes the lineup. So that's why the confusion here. So Councilwoman Sanchez.

Councilwoman Sanchez

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate Mr. Allen Hughes kind of giving us a general description around how we're developing these plans 103 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 and particularly how we're outlining shovel-ready projects. Could you explain to me who are all of the people making the decisions? 'cause I want to go back to the point about a list of projects and potential shovel-ready projects. What's the work process? See, I'm trying to understand the organizational chart between the economic money coming in, who's looking at that, and then the interrelationship with the departments around the priority. Can you, again, in your short versions (indiscernible)?

Mr. Hughs

Right. Well, the short version is that, as you can imagine, we really need to rely on the departments themselves. What we're trying to do kind of from the center, if you will, is really just coordinate so that we can build tables like this. But the way that tables get constructed really has to rely on the 104 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 work of the departments themselves -- OHCD and Streets and so on and so on and so on, because they're always going to be much more expert about the funding opportunities that the Recovery represents than, you know, any kind of generalist could be. So that's where the work starts, from the work processes that they already have in place. And the reason why that is a reliable process, I hope, is because the way Congress relied on existing titles anyway for -- to kind of move this money, most of this money -- almost all of it, except for some pieces out of the energy and some about health, IT, information technology -- is coming through familiar channels anyway like CDBG, CSBG and so on and so on and so on.

Councilwoman Sanchez

I guess to Councilman Clarke's point, it would be helpful to us, particularly District Councilpeople, to begin to look at what 105 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 those wish lists are so that we know that there's a pipeline being created. I think, if I understand what Councilman Clarke's concern is, you know, what is considered shovel-ready? And then going back to the list that was requested last year, around what are priority projects? And then how does the Stimulus -- how are you looking at the Stimulus to fill in those priority projects so that we have a sense that this hasn't fallen off people's radars? So I think the issue is communicating that. Even if it is -- as Councilman Clarke said, this is a wish list.

Councilwoman Sanchez

You know, if we got the $2.6 billion, these are the projects that are almost shovel-ready that we could move on. I think that would be helpful to us, and notice you have a chart; I don't know if you're going to be willing to share that with 106 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 everybody else, but...

Mr. Hughs

Well, I absolutely would; I already had shared it. And this -- but this chart is really just about the funding opportunities. It doesn't quite speak to your question, which is about, okay, so that's the funding opportunity, but what might get funded underneath that opportunity if it and when it comes through? And, you know, if you'll allow me to kind of be Council's, you know, advisor on this, my advice would be that you can really rely on -- because, again, because of the existing titles and the existing programs that Congress is using to shove this money down the road towards us, you can -- it's the same conversation you would normally have around projects and with the same people, because it's going to be the existing titles in almost every case. When -- for example, on CDBG, we 107 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 will amend the comp plan that will come before City Council --

Councilwoman Sanchez

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Hughs

-- so that, you know, monitoring the specifics of -- the real details that you care about that just happens to be in my chart is going to take place with the conversations you would normally have with the operating departments around their usual titles.

Councilwoman Sanchez

Okay. Well, into that regard, I think it would be important and helpful to Council, as we go through the departments, to get a list of what those projects are that potentially can be amended if additional economic money comes in. 'Cause then you could see, you know, this is Plan A. Plan B, Plan C. And since the Administration has gotten really good at that, putting for us a Plan A, and this is what happens when some of the Stimulus comes in 'cause I think it would help us kind of identify 108 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 that. One of the practices that was started last year as it related to all of the departments was that we would get a listing of the minority participation. And I notice in this Capital Budget -- and I don't know if the Capital Programs Office is going to testify separately -- we did not get a report about last year's participation on minority participation in the Capital Programs Office. And I know that that was a lengthy discussion last year. So is the Capital Programs Office going to report to us? 'Cause you're asking us to support a new Capital Budget Plan, but we haven't really analyzed last year's.

Mr. Greenburger

(Addressing Mr. Agostino.) Do you want to speak to that?

Mr. Agostino

Yes. Councilwoman, actually, Public Property has compiled those numbers. We 109 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 anticipated that you would ask for those. Last year, what happened, I think one of your colleagues asked that that be part and parcel of whatever we submitted. But we have those numbers and we'll prepare them for the Chair so that everyone can see them.

Councilwoman Sanchez

Okay. I guess -- and that's why it's kind of a little bit complicated because with all of the new organizational chart, at what point -- I guess you want us to wait -- the Capital Office ultimately is now at Public Property.

Mr. Agostino

That's correct.

Councilwoman Sanchez

Do you want us to wait until Public Property comes up so that we can process questions?

Mr. Agostino

Councilwoman, that's entirely up to you. If you want to do that now, we'd be happy to answer those questions for you.

Councilwoman Sanchez

Well, 110 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 'cause I guess my point to that is, last year, I was -- I asked a lot of pointed questions of the Capital Office, and I know we've since restructured it, so I wanted to -- so I was asking you guys, if you prefer, I can wait until Public Property comes in. No, that's fine, I can wait. But for the record, so folks are prepared, you know, one of the things that I'd like to see when the Capital Office reports is how we've restructured some of the issues related to contract. I know we've gone to the State on some restructuring issues for government and if, in fact, we've looked at our ability to do capital projects, if we've attempted to have conversations about State authorization around how -- our limitations around contracting. 'Cause I want to know what we've done as it relates to that, 'cause it was one of the big issues. And I think it goes back to Councilwoman Tasco's and 111 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Donna Reed and others around how we manage projects, and a lot of that has to do with our contracting structure and the limitations. So I'll be looking for that. Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a question with regard to the Youth Study Center. And my question is -- maybe I have two questions about the Youth Study Center. One is that with regard to minority participation, I know I was invited to early meetings; that will be my second question. But during those meetings, Deputy Mayor Gillison, we talked about Macio Cummings, who happens to be here, and the Temple Group, during minority participation. But now I'm told that we're doing that a different way, that 112 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 it's going through the City's EOP Program. I'm just asking how we're handling minority participation. DEPT.

Mayor Gillison

Good morning, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Good morning. DEPT.

Mayor Gillison

And good morning, Madam Chair. Everett Gillison, Deputy Mayor for Public Safety. What we are doing, Councilwoman, is to make sure that we are consistent. The EOP is being made a part of the Youth Study Center bidding process so that we can start to have a mechanism for making sure that our goals are part of the contracting issues. That has already been accepted. It's obviously been worked with the Temple Group, who is the CM on the entire project. And so we are just making sure that our EOP is part of the bidding process. As you know, we had a 113 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 preconstruction meeting, I believe, just last week to make sure that persons -- both women, minority contractors and everyone in the neighborhood -- would be able to understand what the opportunities will be at the Youth Study Center coming up. And we're hoping to go to putting out bids rather shortly so we can move that project along.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. My other question is: Last week, I received -- I did not know about that meeting, and someone brought me a copy of a list that had no blacks, no 17 blacks, no blacks, no blacks, no blacks, no blacks all the way down. And then they said there was an additional page on front with speakers and that I was listed and that I didn't come, nor did anybody from my office, and that that was announced at a public meeting. Now, obviously, you know, I don't do that. I try to attend meetings, 114 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 but I didn't know about it. Nor would I ever want my community to think I wouldn't participate. And why would I not even want to participate in minority inclusion. So I don't know how that happens, but I wanted to mention that, because if I was written in even on the agenda, which I haven't received -- I was told I was -- then, you know, I'd like us to work more closely together so that doesn't happen. Like I said, I heard I was criticized. "Not only is she not here, but she didn't have anybody from her staff here," when I didn't know anything about it. DEPT.

Mayor Gillison

Well, Councilwoman, I mean, as you know, you and I and the Administration, and we have been working hand in hand to make sure this project moves forward. We look forward to continuing that relationship. I am not aware of the piece of 115 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 paper, nor am I aware of the contact or the information that you're referring to, but I'll be glad to look into it and find out what I can about it.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, thank you. DEPT.

Mayor Gillison

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Jones.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam President. Under the section that would allow property acquisition for economic- development organizations, my first question is in the category of Redevelopment Authority or PIDC. How much commercial property is in their inventory, and what is its worth, and what is its projected ability to create tax revenue for the City of 116 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Philadelphia? I asked this question before, and we agreed that it was more appropriate under the Capital Budget portion.

Mr. Greenberger

Okay, let me just see if RDA is here. (Witness comes forward.)

Mr. Dalfo

Good morning.

Councilman Jones

Good morning.

Mr. Dalfo

My name's Tom Dalfo. I'm with the Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation. Pardon me. I'm a bit under the weather. Our total industrial and commercial inventory right now is approximately 250 acres of property. And it's -- the value -- to some extent, it's a little bit based upon what its potential reuse is, 'cause not all of it, despite the fact that it was purchased for industrial purposes, is probably going to end up being developed that way, is about, on average, about a $100,000 an acre. So 117 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 at 250 acres, that would be about -- $25 million or so would be its value right now

Councilman Jones

million. 6 And out of that, how much is ready for 7 disposition, ready to be purchased, 8 developed. 9

Mr. Dalfo

The bulk of that 10 would be at this point. 11

Councilman Jones

Okay. And 12 you subtract Parkside, Hunting Park 13 possibly, and American Street, what's 14 left in particular districts around the 15 City of Philadelphia out of that 200 16 acres? 17

Mr. Dalfo

If you back out -- 18

Councilman Jones

If you take 19 our big, industrial parks out of it, 20 what's available? 21

Mr. Dalfo

Oh, if you take out 22 our five industrial parks out of it, then 23 there's essentially nothing left. 24 That's -- all of our -- our 25 industrial inventory doesn't represent 118 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the entire industrial inventory for the City; it's just the piece that we own on behalf of the City of Philadelphia.

Councilman Jones

Do you hold or does the Redevelopment Authority hold its own property?

Mr. Dalfo

We hold property through the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development.

Councilman Jones

And would that include the Redevelopment Authority's?

Mr. Dalfo

No. They hold their own property.

Councilman Jones

Is the Redevelopment Authority available to answer my question?

Mr. Dalfo

I don't know.

Mr. Greenberger

I was going to offer that. I think we may have to get back to you on that one 'cause I've not seen representatives here.

Councilman Jones

I know you're new, but "I'll get back to you on that" 119 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 is like one of those questions that -- you know, answers that kind of irk Council people.

Mr. Greenberger

How about, I'll talk to somebody in RDA and get you an answer.

Councilman Jones

'Cause I asked that question before in the Five-Year Plan.

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah.

Councilman Jones

And we have not gotten a answer yet. And I think if we're looking at the possibility of raising taxes on the average citizen, I want to know what we have available to develop so that we know what portion the City can contribute to development and defray some of that potential increase.

Mr. Greenberger

And I can tell you, Councilman, also that the Planning Commission has been working with the RDA starting to examine exactly that question: What holdings do they have? 120 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 what are they worth? which ones are worth selling? which ones are worth redevelopment? But I don't have any numbers in front of me to tell you right now.

Councilman Jones

It would be additionally helpful if you could break that down by Council District.

Mr. Greenberger

Mm-hmm.

Councilman Green

Point of information.

Councilman Jones

Under the line-item for our neighborhood --

Council President Verna

Excuse me, Councilman. Councilman Green, do you have a point of information?

Councilman Green

Yes. Thank you, Madam President. Mr. Greenberger, you just testified that you're working with the RDA to determine where their properties are, what their properties are worth, which of their properties are ready for 121 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 development. Is it your testimony that the RDA does not know the answer to those questions?

Mr. Greenberger

No. I think they do know, but I don't know.

Councilman Green

Well, you know, somebody -- I mean, I don't understand. What do you -- if they know, then what are you working on with them?

Mr. Greenberger

Well, we're looking at -- from the Planning Commission's point of view, we're looking at specific areas and trying to understand sort of in master plan terms how these areas might develop. Some of the properties that are included in the master plan are RDA properties.

Councilman Green

Good.

Mr. Greenberger

Other ones are held by other public entities. And then, of course, the vast majority is held private entity. So from the Commission's point of view, we're simply trying to get a 122 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 hold of exactly in cumulative total what kind of properties might be available and how that impacts a master plan.

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Greenberger

But I don't have the numbers to --

Councilman Green

Have they shared all of that information? If they have the information, have they shared that with you?

Mr. Greenberger

They are -- we have maps that are in our geographic information systems that show who owns what, but we're not convinced that they're reliable enough, that they need to be resurveyed. And so, we're going back to the various departments to make sure that our maps are correct, and I just don't have an answer for you yet as to whether they are -- how accurate they are.

Councilman Green

Okay. So before we leave here today, to Councilman Jones's point, could someone from the RDA 123 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 come and answer his questions and answer my questions about whether they know to the answers to the questions that you are working on?

Mr. Greenberger

We'll try to do that.

Councilman Green

And I'll be happy to sit here as long as it takes so that we can get those answers. Thank you.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilman Jones.