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Minutes

Committee Hearing, March 31, 2009

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMar 31, 2009

People mentioned

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Organizations mentioned

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

And you can go on.

Councilman Jones

Under Capital Programs, you have $8,750,000 carried over for neighborhood commercial centers and site improvements. What does that represent, and how old is that project?

Mr. Greenberger

Bear with me a 124 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 second.

Councilman Jones

There's an additional, what, 17.7 million carried over from FY '08 as well. And I'm trying to find out what the --

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah. You're on , right?

Councilman Jones

Yes. Line, I believe, 17.

Mr. Greenberger

Right. Yeah, it starts on -- well, yeah, line 13 starts on 27 and runs through -- well, 14 you're just talking about commercial 15 corridors, right? So it runs through 16 17-E. Just bear with us a second sorry. 17 If this was the Oscars, I'd have to fill air time here, but, uh...

Councilman Jones

Charlie McPherson is a rough timekeeper.

Mr. Greenberger

Sorry.

Councilman Jones

That's all right.

Mr. Greenberger

I think we'd rather give you the right answer than the 125 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 fast answer. (Witness comes forward.)

Mr. Altman

Yes, Councilmember Jones. I'm sorry, we were just going through this 'cause there are some different sources here. So when you see (indiscernible) of State funds and City funds and the ones that are held over, the ones that are remaining, I think the 1.7 -- the 1.7 is for lower Germantown for improvements there. And the remainder -- as you know, there's a number of all of the corridors in the City where we have different sources that are going to them, which we're happy to go through. But, as you know, we have funds allocated -- we have funds that have been allocated and will be -- this represents just a portion of them because they're not General Funds but that are going out for all of the different corridors in the City, as you know: Lansdowne Avenue, Passyunk, Market Street, a whole number of corridors in 126 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the City. This represents -- in terms of the unallocated, there's about $2 million that would go to -- about 1.7 would go to lower Germantown. And there's another site also on 1325 Germantown Avenue that PIDC is involved in that results in the $2 million that we're talking about here.

Councilman Jones

Is there a way to break these down by district?

Mr. Altman

We can do that.

Councilman Jones

And the reason why I say this is not so much -- and I don't want to paint the picture that each District Councilperson is worried about their own commercial corridors, but we might be helpful in alerting merchants that, if we're doing site improvements, that there may be a disruption in business flow.

Councilman Jones

And our partnership with you can give them forewarned ability to kind of adjust 127 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 their businesses accordingly.

Mr. Altman

Right. No, absolutely. And, Councilman, what I wanted to indicate is that, you know, the Capital Budget for commercial corridors really only reflects a portion of, as you know, the overall commercial-corridor money, so most of that money is still remaining from the commercial-corridor bond issue, commercial corridors, which, as I said earlier, most of those funds should be distributed between now -- or projects would be completed between now and January because, actually, per their bond requirements, they need to go out. And so, you know -- and this represents a portion of it, and we'd be happy to go through that whole schedule with you if you need to.

Councilman Jones

That and also the age of it. And I understand that Public Property and other departments have been decimated by way of their 128 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 ability to reduce to the budgets that you guys have made for them. But I need to know what that -- what impact does that have on your ability to bid projects, to execute those projects. And then in light of the Stimulus Package -- God knows when that comes -- how we ramp up to be able to handle that.

Councilman Jones

And that's a repetitive theme by myself and other members of Council. So we want to take a look at how, in the real world, we get this stuff done.

Mr. Altman

Yes. We'll be happy to get that for you.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Mr. Altman, do you mind staying at the witness table. I have a question. Line 18-1. Can you tell us how 129 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the $1,135,000,000 in CM Funds are going to be spent? 18-1.

Mr. Altman

I'm sorry. The Navy Yard infrastructure?

Council President Verna

Yes.

Mr. Altman

Just so we clarify. Yes. And also PIDC is here because they are the organization that is the -- implementing these. We have a series of Navy Yard improvements; they're mostly in the way of infrastructure improvements. Obviously, there's seawall, improvement there are some greenway improvements, as well as site improvements. Some of these -- for example, there's about a million dollars that's allocated for some improvements around Tasty Bake [sic] site; you know, their new building is being constructed. There's some streetscape improvements. There are about five blocks along the riverfront where there will be 130 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 a greenway as part of a sort of build-out of many of the pedestrian paths and walkways along the waterfront. And the 2 million for the seawall, there's an historic seawall structure that's in danger of collapsing, so that needs to be shored up as part of the improvements. I mean, this is part of the ongoing -- I think what happens is, every year, they're trying to allocate a certain amount of capital improvements so that we can continue to prepare the Navy Yard for development.

Council President Verna

Thank you. And from what I believe I heard Mr. Hughes say, that this is one of the projects that could possibly be considered under the Stimulus Program?

Mr. Altman

Absolutely. I mean, the Navy Yard, we think, can be a potential recipient of a number of the different flows of funds that Mark Allen 131 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Hughes was talking about -- everything from -- and I'm just going through the lists. There are brownfield remediation funds that's a competitive grant that we can apply for, that maybe we would be able to use here. There are research dollars out there to create innovative-energy centers in the country. And we believe the Navy Yard is a perfect place for what's called "a center for distributive energy," which is to actually study how to have a more efficient system for the distribution and management of energy because it's a city within a city. It would be about a $60 million project that PIDC and the City are actively pursuing to make it a research center. So the Navy Yard offers a lot there are a lot of -- there are a lot of different pots here that we can be looking at to try to bring to the Navy Yard.

Council President Verna

Great. 132 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Thank you very much. Mr. Hughes, is there anything you would like to add?

Mr. Hughs

No, ma'am. That was a beautiful answer.

Council President Verna

Very good. Thank you.

Mr. Greenberger

It was a beautiful answer, yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask a question about , and that is Penn's Landing improvements. In particular, can someone explain to me where the money -- the 24A, where that 2.7 million is going and... (Witness comes forward.)

Mr. Greenberger

Joe Brooks here, from the Delaware Waterfront Corporation will explain that to you. 133 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Brooks

Thank you, Councilman Green. That $2.7 million represents money from previous fiscal years, FY '09 dollars, I believe. Correct?

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Brooks

The break --

Councilman Green

What's it being spent on?

Mr. Brooks

Okay. The breakdown is as follows. We had set aside a million dollars for Penn's Landing site- improvement projects, and that was new sewer, public fountain, new equipment for the ice-skating rink at Penn's Landing. We have spent of that money about $82,000 for the sewer line, $230,000 for Great Plaza rehabilitation. An additional 700,000 was set aside for infrastructure improvements to the piles underneath the Great Plaza, a new roof for Pier 9, a composite-sheeting system on the seawall. And of that 700,000 134 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 allotment, we've spent $130,000 of it on a new roof for Pier 9. The final component, about a million dollars set-aside, was for dredging in our marina. We've spent about 700,000 of that, and DRWC fronted some of those monies. So we've incurred about $1,249,000 of that 2.7. We anticipate spending the balance of that, which, I think, breaks out to $1,450,000 on the projects we weren't able to complete with the first allotment. So of the 2.7, we spent 1249. We anticipate drawing down the next 1,450,00 and spending all of that before calendar year 2009 is out on the projects that we weren't able to complete in the previous fiscal year.

Councilman Green

Okay, sorry. So there's not 2.7? So this is incorrect?

Councilman Green

It sounds 135 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 like 24-A should be 1,450,00 not 2.7? In other words, you're saying you spent -- of the 2.7, you spent a million.

Mr. Brooks

Yeah. It is -- I'm sorry. It is 2.7, Councilman.

Councilman Green

Okay. So forget what you spent. What's the 2.7 going to be used for?

Mr. Brooks

To pay us back for the money that we had spent and to fund the balance of the projects that we --

Councilman Green

To pay who back?

Mr. Brooks

Well, it's -- DRWC had fronted those City capital dollars in anticipation of those dollars coming in. The contract was not executed and --

Councilman Green

With do you mean "had fronted"?

Mr. Brooks

Using our own capital.

Councilman Green

Okay. So once we give you that money, the 2.7, some of which -- 136 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Brooks

We have already spent.

Councilman Green

-- was a reimbursement.

Mr. Brooks

Correct.

Councilman Green

But even though it's a reimbursement, my question is: How will the 2.7, even though 1.3 of it is a reimbursement, be spent? How are you spending the 2.7 million -- operating, improving? You know.

Mr. Forken

Councilman, hi. Joe Forken with DRWC. The 2.7 is an existing contact, a city capital contract, and rolled forward. So what Joe was saying was that 1.3 was spent. The existing --

Council President Verna

Excuse me, sir.

Mr. Forken

Yes, ma'am?

Council President Verna

The stenographer did not hear your name.

Mr. Forken

Oh, my name is Joe Forken. 137 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Forken

The remaining 1.4 million of the 2.7 million contract will be spent on the remaining site improvements that were improved in the 2009 Capital Budget.

Councilman Green

What are they?

Mr. Forken

I'll give that you list; I have it here. And they are: The main-site pile improvement, that was a five-year program, and this was Year 3 of that program that prepares 41 piles a year underneath the main Penn's Landing site. It's the composite sheeting program to protect the marina from silting. It's high-voltage switch gear and power generation for the main Penn's Landing site. It's the replacement of the river and coil system. 138 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 And the remaining of the dredging money for the 300,000 left in dredging.

Councilman Green

Okay. So it's your testimony that this 2.7 million will only be spent on those things you just mentioned, and they will all be spent in 2010, as the Five-Year Plan shows.

Councilman Green

Okay, thank you. So under 24-2, it's Pier 11 North infrastructure improvements. You've got 1.35 million of CA funds, which I have to remind myself what that is, prefinance loans. What are those dollars going to be spent for?

Mr. Forken

The Pier 11 program is 750,000 in substructure repairs and improvements to the pier to stabilize the pier and another $600,000 to implement the public park.

Councilman Green

Are you aware 139 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 of a engineering study done by a group of former marines who wanted to use private money to make the pier safe, and in that engineering study, the estimate of repairing the pier to make it possible for, you know, development was $2 million?

Mr. Brooks

Councilman, I believe that was a part of the Ton Tavern proposed project, and that 2 million that would be needed to reinforce the bottom of the pier would be for a large building, a load structure that is not currently envisioned for the plans for Pier 11, which is a passive public park. So if, you were going to build the building that was originally discussed, I think, as far as back as '02 and '03, you needed a higher load capacity. I mean, you needed to put more dollars into the substructure. What's envisioned now at Pier 11, again, is a public park. We think the existing dollars that we're 140 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 requesting delivers the load capacities that you need to deliver the park.

Councilman Green

Just to close this loop, Madam President, if that's okay? Who's the prefinance loan from? Is that City dollars, or is that from an outside source or...

Mr. Altman

We could get you the -- we'll get some detail.

Councilman Green

Okay. And I thought the William Penn Foundation was putting money into that project. I don't see any private source, PB, PO, or PT under that category. How much foundation money will we be spending on Pier 11, and why isn't that reflected in the Capital Budget?

Mr. Forken

There is private support for both Pier 11 and the Master Plan project. William Penn has pledged a million dollars for both of those programs. At the time, when we had done 141 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the -- Pier 11, I'm sorry. Pier is estimated to be about a $4 million project. So at the time when we did this capital budget, the William Penn money was not yet approved, the grant was not yet approved. And most of that money will go towards the build-out portion of both park and Master Plan.

Councilman Green

Okay. So 11 it's a R4 million; you've a million-350 slated for it plus a million?

Mr. Forken

Plus a million from William Penn and then other sources that the grant process is going very well with.

Mr. Altman

We have application into the State, for example, for funding. We're very hopeful that we'll receive that.

Councilman Green

Okay.

Mr. Altman

That could potentially be another million dollars. And we're pursuing a couple of other foundations to -- following behind 142 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 William Penn, are looking to make investments in the waterfront to help close the gap. But what we're doing now -- what this first money is allow us to do the more detailed costing of this so we know exactly what we're raising money for in terms of what we build, because we also have to bring on landscape architects, and we have an RFP -- the Waterfront Corporation has an RFP out to bring in architects so we know what the design is and we know what the total cost of the project is.

Councilman Green

Okay. But, you know, I would like reflected in the Capital Plan what the actual plan is that you know about. And if it's 4 million bucks, the Capital Plan you're asking us to approve should say $4 million, even if you're not exactly sure, you know, where the money is coming from. You know, expected grant-funding should be reflected here in this Capital Plan so 143 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 that people know the true cost of what it is you're asking us to approve. You know, it looks like a million-350, and it's $4 million. And then that sort of -- the broader question is: When we have an opportunity for a public-private partnership -- and I dropped the ball on this, Deputy Mayor Altman, because you did agree to meet with the former marines, and I have not set up that appointment yet. But if we have somebody willing to spend their own money to renovate the pier. Which will allow public access and green space but will also have an attraction on it that will draw people down to the waterfront, why would we not use private fund and then use grant dollars for the rest of the waterfront plan?

Mr. Altman

Well, again, as I said, I'd be happy to meet and see what the plan is. I mean -- 144 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Councilman Green

It sounds like they're aware of the plan and you were not when we last spoke, so I would like for them to answer the question.

Mr. Brooks

Councilman, we were aware of the Ton Tavern plan I think as far as back as 2002, 2003, and it was a partnership between old, retired marines. But when we were in discussion with those folks for Pier 11, that partnership broke up. And I believe it was -- Kevin Flynn was one portion, and another portion of marines went the other way. And they weren't a unified body at that point. And then the project seemed to founder and lose --

Councilman Green

It's my understanding that the reason the project didn't happen is because they offered to take the pier off your hands, do $2 million of improvements on it, and have something open to the public. And what happened was, the 145 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Penn's Landing Corporation at the time, or whoever controlled the property, said, No, we want $750,000 for a pier that we're now going to spend $4 million improving. So, I mean, it's something that I think we need to look at more deeply.

Mr. Brooks

Understood, Councilman.

Councilman Green

That's all the questions I have for now, Madam President.

Mr. Brooks

And I'll be glad to close the information gap on that. Thank you.

Councilman Green

Thanks.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. I'll be relatively quick 'cause I think we're going to break shortly. Two quick questions. One, 146 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Mr. Hughes, while you come up, I just want to ask a quick question about the neighbor commercial corridor money under the NTI, the number, the amount that's available. And is there a timeline? I know that some of those bonds had timelines in terms of spending.

Mr. Greenberger

Yeah. And, actually, I'm just not familiar enough with the question you're asking to actually know the answer myself.

Councilman Clarke

For the streetscape -- the neighborhood commercial corridor streetscape dollars. I know we had done a number of bonds.

Mr. Greenberger

Yes.

Councilman Clarke

And the question is: How much is available? And is there a timeline on the expenditures?

Councilman Clarke

I know there was some timelines on some of the bonds we did, and I just wanted to make sure we're not in jeopardy of losing the 147 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 opportunity.

Mr. Altman

Right. On the commercial corridor bonds, we have about -- I want to say it's about $30 million outstanding that is all scheduled. And as I was saying to Councilman Jones earlier, that needs to be spent by -- before the 1st of next year. And those are all on schedule to be completed. All of those have been identified.

Councilman Clarke

Okay.

Mr. Altman

Yeah. There are a couple that -- what we've done is, we've gone through literally line by line every one of the proposed streetscape expenditures. There are a couple that we think may be problematic in terms of being able to spend those funds in time, and we need to sit down and go through those. It's a small -- it's probably -- of the 30 million, maybe 2 million of 148 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 that total might be at risk, and we'll sit down with a couple of Councilmembers in the districts where we think that is and look at where we need to reprogram those maybe to, you know, augment a program that's doing well, for example.

Councilman Clarke

Will there be the possibility of any of that money needing to be reprogrammed to reflect some Stimulus dollars that may be made available? 'Cause it is an infrastructure project.

Mr. Altman

You mean --

Councilman Clarke

I know earlier we were talking about some of the CDBG and the Comp Plan, and we may decide that we want to alter that. Will we be in a position to do that? 'cause I know it's such a long lead time in terms of bid solicitations and lining up these projects.

Mr. Altman

We could look at that. I mean, the other question is whether you just -- you know, if there's 149 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 an existing project that's going, you know, well in a particular streetscape and maybe it's a one or two blocks short and you have a contract in place, you may want to extend it or do more. So we can go through it. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

Councilman Clarke

I want to make sure that we understand -- I don't know if they need the Stimulus dollars. I assume they don't require a match, but we want the make sure that if there's an opportunity, we don't get caught short.

Mr. Altman

Oh, in terms of leveraging?

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. We want to make sure that we maximize our opportunity. Real quick. Mr. Hughs, you gave us this sheet; is it okay if we talk about this?

Councilman Clarke

It wasn't 150 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 publicly distributed, so just I wanted to make sure. On here, you have approximately eligible projects or opportunities, 6 and half of them appear to have a 7 deadline that's within 30 days. And so, 8 should I feel comfortable that these that 9 are in the 30-day timeline, we're going 10 to be okay in terms of meeting those 11 deadlines? 12

Mr. Hughs

Yes, Councilman. 13 That -- my favorite column on that chart 14 before you is the last one, which is 15 local lead. So that there is a deputy 16 mayor and an operating department on each 17 of these -- 18

Councilman Clarke

Oh, that's 19 what that means. 20

Mr. Hughs

That's what those 21 are. So people are on -- 22

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. 23 (Indiscernible; parties talking 24 over each other.) 25

Mr. Hughs

No, that's right. 151 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 Those are people's initials and department initials so the people who've been tasked are assigned for the follow-up for and meeting those deadlines.

Councilman Clarke

All right.

Mr. Hughs

They're already at work on those.

Councilman Clarke

I just want to get a little clarity on this. Sorry for members who don't have a copy of this. It has the U.S. department responsible for distributing the funds. And then you have the funding opportunity, then you have the amount, and then you have dollars listed. Is this the City's request in the third column?

Mr. Hughs

Above that blank row -- and I am sorry. This -- since this isn't really a Capital Budget document, I didn't intend to discuss it, but I'm happy to -- I don't want take 152 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 time away from this, but I'm happy to answer this question, which is that above the blank row is largely formula or other kinds of funding that has been settled. So the amount in the third column above the blank row is the specific amount that will be coming to the city.

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

Mr. Hughs

Below the blank row, that's really a pool of funds that's national.

Councilman Clarke

So that's what we hopefully --

Mr. Hughs

Exactly. Yes, sir.

Councilman Clarke

So we have identified how much money we think we should be eligible for.

Mr. Hughs

That's what our applications will say. We'll be asking for a specific amount. That's right. But we don't know -- see, we 153 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 can't budget around it 'cause we don't know what we will win. We may win less, we may win --

Councilman Clarke

So we have asked for money. See, I think --

Mr. Hughs

No, we won't -- no, that's why those dates are in there. We won't ask for them until the dates, until the deadline.

Councilman Clarke

Well, some of these are available now.

Councilman Clarke

So I'm saying --

Mr. Hughs

Well, almost all the ones that are available now are above that blank row. We've already received those funds.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. I see, so anything above that.

Mr. Hughs

And let me give you an example of --

Councilman Clarke

And then you got one below that. 154 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Hughs

That's right. And so under EDA, when it says "available now," that's actually rolling. So there really is no deadline for that. So we're at work on --

Councilman Clarke

So there's no deadline. We can apply but it is -- the money will run out at some point.

Mr. Hughs

Sure, absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. All right. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

Councilman Clarke

'Cause, see, I hate to belabor the point, but it's kind of confusing. In one breath, you say that we're not there, we don't know what's going on. Then now I'm seeing, based on your chart, we've actually already submitted requests for money.

Mr. Hughs

Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

So how can we have submitted requests for money if we don't know what we should be asking 155 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 for.

Mr. Hughs

That's a very good question. And let me try to answer that one again, because it is a good question and it's difficult, which is that the recovery is not one thing.

Councilman Clarke

I understand that.

Mr. Hughs

It's many, many, many different things. And so the answer of what we know about or what we don't know is just different, depending on which row of the chart that we're talking about. So for many things, we still don't know; but for some things, we do know. And for even some -- now, let me give you an example, if I may, to further complicate this. Even for things that we do know --

Councilman Clarke

You're doing a good job of that. Go ahead. (Laughter.)

Mr. Hughs

And that's really 156 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 the message, right? The fifth row, CDBG, there's something we know: We know the amount because it's allocated by formula.

Councilman Clarke

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Hughs

But the special guidance and regulations that will determine how we can spend those $14 million has still not been issued by HUD.

Councilman Clarke

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Hughs

So we don't know the "on what"; we just know the "how much." Now, for the streets one --

Councilman Clarke

So, all right. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, I'm saying 'cause we I've heard several questions about how much money are we going to get.

Mr. Hughs

That's right.

Councilman Clarke

And when you 157 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 look at this, you say we have a sense of how much money we're going to get. But then in your testimony or earlier statement, you said we have no idea 'cause you don't know --

Mr. Hughs

I know it's complicated. Let me try again. That's why the very first thing on this chart is the date, today's date. First of all, it changes every day.

Councilman Clarke

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Hughs

Second of all, we do know about the eight lines above the blank row; we don't know about the eighteen lines below the blank row. We know some things, we don't know others. We're trying to figure 'em out as fast as we can. Usually -- I mean, in almost every case, the reason we don't know something is because somebody in Washington hasn't made the decision yet.

Councilman Clarke

But we know what we're asking for according to this. 158 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Hughs

We're asking for the guidance.

Councilman Clarke

Has there been an official ask? I mean, have we actually asked for it or have we submitted something?

Mr. Hughs

What's the "it"?

Councilman Clarke

You know what, let me wait until the break, and then we can -- I can have a better sense of what I want to ask you and you can have a better sense of how you're going to answer it.

Councilman Clarke

'Cause this has been going on for a minute plus my -- the bell rang so I got to --

Mr. Hughs

Right. And I know we're going to have --

Council President Verna

And, Mr. Hughes, we're going to be breaking for lunch, but I think it would be very helpful if each of the Councilmembers, when we got back, would be given a copy 159 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 of that sheet before you.

Mr. Hughs

Sure. That's my pleasure. Thank you. I'm happy to distribute that. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Who has a point of information? The Chair recognizes Councilman Green for a point of information.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just like to ask Mr. Agostino to, after the break, be prepared to answer the questions that I asked during my first session so that we can have answers to those relatively simple questions here today. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Agostino

I'm not going to have them.

Council President Verna

I'm sorry? 160 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Agostino

I'm sorry, Councilmember, but I will not have them this afternoon.

Council President Verna

Councilman Green wants his light on, please.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam Chair. The issue with that, Mr. Agostino, is that last year, during your budget testimony and in written communications to the President, you said that that information would be forthcoming as of a certain time. And now what you're saying is, "We'll get it to you," and it's the same thing that was said last year at this time, and it's not acceptable. You've had a year.

Mr. Agostino

Councilmember, that is not what I said. What I said is that we would get back to you today with an answer to your question. And I'm sorry that you're unable to wait an 161 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 afternoon or a day for that.

Councilman Green

Thank you. You'll get back to me today. I appreciate that. That's the first I heard that.

Mr. Agostino

With the same answer I've just given you.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam Chair. I really wish we could have a more meaningful discussion and cooperation than seems to be reflected in some members of the Administration who are testifying here today.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The committee will stand in recess until 1:15. Thank you. (Lunch break taken.) * * * 162 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 (Proceedings resume after lunch break.) (Second-shift stenographer Michele Murphy relieves first-shift stenographer Josephine Cardillo.)

Council President Verna

The Committee is now back in session. May I ask what the status is of the new Youth Study Center? Have the bonds been issued?

Mr. Greenberger

I think we can reiterate that, sure. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER KNAPPICK: Gary Knappick, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Please identify yourself for the record so the stenographer knows who you are. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER KNAPPICK: Gary Knappick, Madam President. Youth Study Center has been issued for bids. The bid questionnaires, which will be the qualification for the contractors, are due on March 31st, and on April 28th -- let me make sure that's 163 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 correct. Yes, April 28th we will be receiving the bids. At that time, we'll know who the contractors are and we'll know the dollar amount.

Mr. Greenberger

And then directly to your question, the bonds have not been issued yet. There's a meeting actually this Thursday with PNC Bank to sort of initiate that process.

Council President Verna

How much Act 71 funding has been spent on this project?

Mr. Greenberger

He, of course, doesn't know off the top of his head, but he's going to dig into his material and find it today and hopefully have an answer before this session is closed.

Council President Verna

Thank you. And can you tell us if the City will reimburse itself out of the bond proceeds for the Act 71 funds? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER KNAPPICK: 164 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213 That's the plan.

Council President Verna

And that being the case, how will these funds be used and are they budgeted? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER KNAPPICK: Chris Donato will speak to that.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Donato

Chris Donato, Office of Budget.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Mr. Greenberger

Oh, yes. I was asked by the stenographer to remind all the people in my side to make sure to say your name, because she needs to hear for the first time.

Council President Verna

Great.

Mr. Donato

Chris Donato, Office of Budget and Program Evaluation.

Council President Verna

Pull the microphone closer, please. Thank you. 165 3/31/09 - WHOLE - BILLS 090212, 090213

Mr. Donato

Those funds are not yet budgeted in the program, and there are no projects yet identified for the use of those funds.

Council President Verna

And? I'm sorry.

Mr. Donato

There are no 9 projects that are yet identified for those funds.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Councilman Rizzo

Point of information, Madam President.