but we have since changed to an amenity space for the building and then before I
leave this plan how does the trash get from the upper levels to the trash room
the trash comes we have a trash chute planned for the middle of the building
so there is a they will the residents would have access to the chute from the
corridors and that would you know deliver the trash to the first floor I
I mean, to the lowest level, excuse me.
Thank you.
And then can you just briefly explain the layout of the first floor through fourth floor?
So the first floor through fourth floor is four units a piece.
It's a mix of one bedrooms and two bedrooms.
And they range from 615 square feet in size to almost 885 square feet in size.
um the the layouts are essentially the same from floor to floor um the elevators and the stairs
are centralized um and again the trash chute you can see in the center of the plan as well
from this image here there are some red dotted lines indicated on the floor plans what does that
what does that indicate? So we have opted to all the units are type B units as required by code
but through the process of discussing the project with RCO there was a specific request to have an
accessible unit in the space so we now have an accessible fully accessible unit and those red
lines represent the clearances and then what is the plan for the roof uh we are planning to have
a roof deck um to the wissahick inside of the um site and and um down towards the west walnut lane
side of the site as well um and there will also be um uh compressors or i'm sorry condensers for
the for the heat pump units or the heat pumps in the units so carl i'm bringing up uh renderings
of the building at exhibit 13. can you just briefly describe the design and as you do
try and address aspects of the building that were modified in response to the discussions
with the community okay um so we are showing a um the design is showing a red brick um red brick
facade we have a mix of um window types and sizes um there was concern expressed um from the rco
that um they didn't want just like a box that a boring box building so um there's a mix of units
or i'm sorry mix of window sizes we also introduced juliet balconies which were specific requests of
the community um we reduced the um floor to floor height and pushed back the parapet wall to the
edge of the roof deck um so that um the building appears less massive from the um from the from
the corner okay and then just by way of comparison um i have up on the screen a part of exhibit 10
does this does this show what the original design was for the building yes that is correct okay
all right so this is somewhat reflected in the rendering itself but
This is somewhat reflected in the rendering itself, but can you talk about, I want to bring up one of the elevations, can you talk about the height of this building in relation to the single-family homes that are on the opposing corner at Naomi Street?
um yes we um there's a yeah it's the next page actually is it so this is a cross-section for
through the um through our site parallel to um with the hick and aft um what we have been able
to determine from a mix of publicly available um information and our own survey of the of our excuse
be of this property it's 6100 with bank and avenue um we have determined that naomi street is is
roughly 16 feet above west walnut lane um and the peak of the roof at the corners which were shown
those houses were shown earlier in the presentation is roughly another 40 feet above that so
um it is the peak of those roofs are actually taller than our building on the site
but not taller than the elevator overrun which you can see in this image okay and in relation
and in relation to the concern that the community expressed relative to the height I don't I don't
recall you specifically addressing this how did you seek to address the concern about height of
the building um so previously we had the standard 10 foot floor to floor um that generally apartments
get built with um that allows for a nine foot ceiling in the units um we have reduced each of
the floor to floor heights of the apartment levels um by seven inches each to get that that overall
height down the other thing that we did was we took about two feet off of the the lowest level
the entry level um so in all the building really lost um has has shrunk by about six feet um of
total dimension however because of the grades um the overall building height really is only um
as it's measured from average grade it's only reduced by about two feet
so the community had requested that the building be reduced to three stories in reviewing that
particular request what would that design require in terms of the building itself
um so so we did study a um three three-story scheme earlier in this project um it what end
uh ends up happening is we're much closer to what we were i think at that 80 coverage area maximum
um so we basically would increase the incursion into the steep slopes by um providing a similar
program but reducing the height of the building so ultimately then is it fair to say that the
goal here was to try and address the community's concern by reducing the overall building height
but not creating more incursion into steep slope areas is that yes yes um and then just in terms of
a summary much of that design consideration that you talked about today is summarized at exhibit
22 is that correct that is correct carl in a typical variance case we're required to show
the board that the lot suffers from a unique and unnecessary hardship putting the steep slope
aside does the shape of this lot in your professional opinion alone create a hardship
no it does not in in light of the lot shape and the steep slope did you analyze whether any
development or of any use or any size can be built on the lot by right without variances from this
board in my opinion there's there's no building that could be proposed on this site without having
some some form of incursion into a steep slope by the by the sole fact that um the the flat part of
the site is to the to the back to the side and to the rear so um basically to get into the building
you would have to go through, you would have to, you know, dig in and put, you know, retaining walls,
pathways, stairs, ramps to get up to that flat part. The other challenge that would then be
presented is that we would not be meeting the front setback requirements. And so we would then
be asking for a variance for the front setback. And then what about in terms of parking?
front for the front setback and then what about in terms of parking did you explore the viability
of putting parking on the lot and if so why is that not viable um we we did look at um putting
parking on this on the site um it it would either increase the incursion into the steep slope again
by putting surface lots on there um or it would result in an incredible amount of excavation
because of this steep slope if we were trying to get it below grade um the other challenge
that it presents and we've had this um issue on other projects where this has been requested is
that the amount of space that you end up losing on the street parking quickly offsets any space that
you're on um any spaces that you're gaining on site so because we have to make a curb cut or
because um especially with a surface surface lot that's just a kind of pull in um you would end up
losing almost an equal number of uh on-street parking spaces so carl in your professional
opinion do you believe that this development disturbs as little of the steep slope as possible
i do all right um that's all i have for carl i'd like to bring up my next yeah yep how many more
witnesses do you have how much time of peace um because i'm i'm we're gonna have to do a
result of here we're we're really behind where we should be understood mr sheriff and that's
i want to wait wait a minute and um we're going to give this another date i know you testified
I think we understood everything you said, but you're free to come back.
All right. So this is going to be a resumptive hearing on 818, 20 at 930 AM.
Okay, yep.
And thanks. Thanks for staying so long, sir. We appreciate it.
Thank you.
Spring Street, right?
Oh, there you go.
yeah spring your community palace right yeah i remember
he was here before
so mi 2025 006073 1700 spring garden street frederick boindexter is the attorney
counsel i'm sorry we're so long but we appreciate you waiting back there would you please state
your name and spell for the stenographer if you would get close to the mic sure it's frederick
poindexter f-r-e-d-e-r-i-c-k p-o-i-n-d-e-x-t-swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth i do you tell us identify your client a relationship to the property yep
community college of philadelphia here with me is eve markman uh the assistant vice president of
brand management and operations uh online they also have we also have uh two members in the crowd
shannon rooney the vice president for enrollment management strategic communications and chuck
longager from city sign okay and we have a non-opposition from logan square neighbors
association our vice chair has a few questions good afternoon have you submitted your documents
and exhibits five days in advance of this hearing yes with the exception that i neglected to send
the proviso plans form but i did send the revised plans so i sent the form this afternoon earlier
this afternoon okay i don't know if you got the email that i sent you but we will need to just
hold the vote because i'm going to need to review the plans with l and i to see what the board would
need to stamp because there's a different number of pages from what was submitted to l and i for
what was submitted for the reviso plans form and so i just i got to get that sorted out and so i
don't want to just throw a number out there and then it's wrong so if you'll just indulge us we'll
vote on this on on june 3rd yeah we're happy to accept the case okay thank you but we can hear
we can hear everything else today we're going to do it and do you waive the read another refusal
and simply to its accuracy yes i do all right thank you you can show your screen and proceed
with the case thank you thank you so much chairman members of the board uh as we've stated i'm here
I WILL MOVE THROUGH THIS QUICKLY.
SO YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, COMMUNITY COLLEGES PHILADELPHIA
HAS REBRANDED AND SPREAD ACROSS THE CITY THE NEW PLACEMAKING AND VIBRANCY OF THE COMMUNITY
BUILDING.
YOU MIGHT BE ASKING WHY YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THAT ON CAMPUS ITSELF JUST YET AS THE ENTRYWAYS
AND THE BIG PICTURE VIEWS OF CAMPUS LACK THE SAME LOGO AND BRANDING.
That's partially because we've been undergoing this process for the last two years or so trying to get approvals for this for these zoning permits.
We've accidentally been issued a zoning permit that which was revoked last year we've been going through this process.
accidentally been issued a zoning permit, which was revoked last year. We've been going through this process for the better part of two years now. Lots of work with L&I and the community.
So I'll skip right to the community aspect of this. We have a letter of non-opposition, as you've said. That took lots of collaboration with LSA members of the Planning and Zoning Committee, both formal meetings with the community and informal meetings with the staff of LSA.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT THE ORIGINAL PLANTS WHICH THEY WERE NOT OPPOSED TO TWO, THREE OF THE ORIGINAL SIGNS AND WERE OPPOSED TO TWO OF THEM SO I'LL START WITH THE THREE SIGNS THAT THEY WERE NOT OPPOSED TO ORIGINALLY.
All right, so these are the new logos for the community college and these are, these
logos here are located on the garage on either side of 17th and 18th Street where the garage
is located.
And I'll scroll up to give you a big picture overview of that, of the campus so that you
can understand where these are placed.
So, if you look here where my pointer is, the garage signs are going to be located on 17th there and are closer to 18th there.
We don't want that to happen.
This is what happens when you try to move quickly.
Apologies.
Okay. So here are the signs on the garage facing 17th and the other side facing 18th. And you can see here the locations on the overview. The community was not opposed to these signs. They do require variances for the height and size. The same with the Lion's Den logo. This is an illuminated logo internal to campus along 17th Street. It's not facing the neighborhood. It's across the street from another campus building.
Again, this is about sort of highlighting the activity center, athletic center for the student body.
Right now, there's a banner sign there, which doesn't really have the presence and placemaking that the community college would like to present for its students.
You can see here, it's an illuminated sign.
And again, the community was not opposed to the Lyonsden sign.
Here we have the original versions of the 17th Street Bridge sign, which were the subject of much of the discussion with the community.
The original proposal was a large format logo sign over 17th Street. There were concerns about
the size of it and being a distraction to the community along the highly trafficked area.
And this is the other sign that was opposed on the south facing wall of the main building. It's
sort of looking south to center city. It's an illuminated sign. Again, very large and the
community had concerns about not only its size but the illumination so we have gone back to the
drawing board to the signage plans and here is the revised sign that's been agreed to with the
community a smaller format much more much less window coverage and the community sort of was
more felt this is more appropriate for the entryway into campus
and the large format illuminated sign on the south facing wall has been reduced by 10 percent
so that was one of the concerns that we addressed with the community is that the size of the signs
was uh more than what was required by you know the placemaking and the sort of branding recognition
that the college was looking for so they reduced the sign by what they felt was the most that they
could with what they were the space that was available there and the mechanics and engineering
of the signage. And you can see here these views which highlight the illumination at night time.
And also you see views here looking out to Center City and looking from Center City into that south-facing wall.
So the relief requested, of course, is for the revised plans for the south-facing logo sign,
the 17th street bridge sign uh revised and the three signs two on the garage and the lines and
sign on the athletic center and just i'd like to ask that at the conclusion of our testimony that
the materials here be entered into the record and i would like to ask eve markman to answer
one question hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer my name is eve
Markman, E-V-E-M-A-R-K-M-A-N. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth? I do. Counsel? Thank you, Eve. Can you just describe the importance of the
placement of these signs on campus and that why these are the least modifications possible to
and that why these are the least modifications possible to your buildings for that brand
your buildings for, you know, that.
recognition and entryway to campus that you're looking to create. Yes, thank you. So as Fred
said, we rebranded in 2024 and previously we have had almost no signage on campus and have been kind
of known as the best known secret in Philadelphia. People don't know where we are. We should call it
It is the Mint. We have the third U.S. Mint is our main building. And what we found, if you look at Temple, Drexel, Penn, Jefferson, all the other campuses, they have this welcoming environment, and we feel that our students deserve that same pride of place and feeling.
the window decal across 17th street that's the main entrance into our campus and we're trying to
create an entryway where you know you're coming onto our campus many people say they don't know
where our campus is the p's on the um the parking garage are really just pretty internal but they
give people an idea that this is part of our campus it's kind of in the center we're sort of
two square blocks 16th to 18th spring garden to callow hill and then the lion's den we have
championship athletics teams and we want people to know that we have basketball games going on
we have volleyball we have things happening there um we want our student athletes many of which who
transfer to four-year schools and get to play um at at the four-year collegiate level like their
pride in place and then finally the lit p is really for the city to know where we are if
you're standing in the comcast center and you look out you can see many places with lit signs and we
want people in the city not just our students to know where we are thanks eve uh the could the
uh administrator look for shannon rooney and the sure shannon yeah shannon shannon please
thank you thank you welcome
hi there can you hear me i i can could you please state your name is spelled for this
stenographer sure it's shannon s-h-a-n-n-o-n rooney r-o-o-n as in nancy e-y do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do if possible could you turn your
video one oh sure yeah sure council sure thanks for joining chan uh one question for you can you
please describe the link between the importance of this signage and the growth and health of
your student body and why that it matters to the future of campus absolutely and thanks for the
opportunity so one of the primary reasons in addition to the ones that eve described in terms
of pride of place and student kind of feeling of pride the bread and butter in terms of the
financial vitality of the institution is really tied to our enrollment and our enrollment growth
for some time our enrollment was in decline we're fortunate that the last few years enrollment has
been growing year over year and the enrollment revenues actually come out to more than 40 of our
operating budget annually so it is extremely important for us to make sure that students are
aware of the opportunities that are available to them at the college and part and parcel of that