-- in that 18 targeted area. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 20
All right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Because what we're trying to do is to educate people, give them an opportunity to understand the change so that we can modify the behavior. It doesn't change over that swiftly. You know, 1955 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 this is our --
I'm aware of that. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: This is our third week with the program. So, you know, we expect that it takes time for people to understand it. But we're going to be consistent about telling them. We can give them another round of, you know, reminder calls the night before to remind them and, you know, work harder with the education and enforcement.
All right. Can you -- I'm assuming you don't have this. Can you get me the cost associated with the mailing, the face-to-face visits, the lid drops and the phone calls? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
All right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I do not have that. So, I will get that.
Thank you. I'm going to not ask you any more questions about this right now. But I would 1956 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 like to ask the Council President, given the fact that there are a number of issues that couldn't get a response today, particularly some of the data, if we could please have the Commissioner come back once we receive the data, and review it and then be in a position to talk.
But in the interim, we're asking for something in writing. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
So that we could review it. Okay. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Yes, Madam 1957 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 President. Sorry. Commissioner, I want to go back to my earlier questions. With regard to the waste disposal contract, when did the process for putting the R.F.P. together start? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: May/June.
What happened between June and November? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Writing an R.F.P.
It took five months to write the R.F.P.? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It took a fair amount of time. We had been in consultation with the -- with our -- with the vendors about the notion of a different type of term, and we had to come to --
A different type of... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Term. Term. 1958 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 We looked at having a shorter term or a longer term contract to get a price advantage for the city.
Well, what's the current price? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The current price is a blended rate of $52. $54.
And do you know what it was at the start of the contract? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: $42. Let me just say that that $54 includes a $4 fee for growing greener, the grow greener fee that the state assessed. That was not...
Was that a part of when it was $42? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No, it was not. 1959 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
When was it that the $42 -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's only in recent time. So, it would be $50...
So, over the seven years we went from $42 to 50. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's correct.
But the state's $4 thing to the side. So... And do you have a sense of where the market is now? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It is higher. It is higher.
Okay. So, tell me again. What was going on for the five months. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: During those months we were in collaboration with our Law Department developing the new R.F.P., becoming more concrete on our term, that it was definitely going to be the four-year with the three one-year renewals versus some other term. 1960 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Okay. And you mentioned on two occasions, both to the Chair and to myself, that Council -- City Council had a representative. When was City Council notified or asked to participate in this process? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I want to say the end of January, beginning of February.
Okay. Now, basically, your previous comments -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: And then I think they became -- That's when the initial notice.
I think that was more like the end of February, beginning of March.
Okay. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They became involved when we started our discussions.
Which was February. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right, the end of February.
End of 1961 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 February. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right.
So it was at the end of February -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: When they started to come -- When Council -- When the Council representatives started coming to the table with negotiations.
End of February, beginning of March. For a process that started in June, you released the R.F.P. in November. The responses were due back at the end of January. So -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
-- from the time the process started in June, up through the end of January, there was no involvement, apparently official or unofficial by City Council. And an offer was made to participate in the process somewhere in the late February, early March time period. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's when participation started.
That's when 1962 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 participation started. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Started, yes.
After the R.F.P. was developed, issued and responded to. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
All right. And now the goal, of course, you expect to send over to us a bill at the end of April in order for you to conclude this process prior to the end of June, so that there would be no 14 interruption in waste disposal; is that right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
When the bill 18 comes over, do you expect that there will be a selected company at that point? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. We would have a recommendation, and that would be in the ordinance. And at that same time or prior to, there would be a significant amount of briefing of Council members.
You're going to 1963 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 brief us on what you decided. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: On our findings and a recommendation.
Okay. So, our role is to listen to the briefings and basically do what you want as quickly as possible, notwithstanding all the other issues going on around here. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Council certainly has a role in reviewing those recommendations and making commentary and challenging the department, with regard to the thought processes as well as selection process.
Okay. Well, it's always good to know your role. So, how did you decide that it would be four years with the three one-year renewals? How did you end up deciding that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We had attempted to talk with our vendors, pursue some other type of terms, see if there was some opportunity for the city to get better pricing. 1964 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 The vendor interests probably were to have a longer term, plus it took years 4 in order to capitalize some of the efforts. 5 I think that there was a lack of -- 6 There was some concern about doing something 7 that long because that was a commitment for 8 many administrations to come. 9 We also looked at a shorter term 10 contract, and we looked for pricing on that 11 and actually did an R.F.P. on that. 12 We came back with very high pricing. 13 So, it left us to go back and reconsider our 14 game plan and strategy, all the while looking 15 at some of the other things that are going on 16 in the marketplace, such as what's happening 17 with New York and its entry into -- its 18 potential entry into our marketplace, as well 19 as our permitting issues, and things like 20 that.
The five companies that responded, are any of them locally based? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They have... Jacob Mascaro is... When you say "locally 1965 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 based," Philadelphia -- none of them are Philadelphia based. They have subsidiaries or local companies. They're all part of larger entities. Say, for one firm that is a small landfill called J.P. Mascaro, that is whose firm is in... near Pottstown or Doylestown. I can't remember which one, off the top of my head.
Okay. Let's go back to the... You mentioned that you anticipated the yearly cost to be about $45 million? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: In terms of our budgeted amount.
Yeah. $45 million. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We do not know what our actual cost is going to be until we come to the conclusion of negotiations.
You also mentioned that 35 percent M.B.E. W.B.E. combined participation, but that that was only on the hauling. 1966 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Since I was here earlier, has anyone had any opportunity to figure out what percent of the total contract is hauling? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. 8 percent. 9
So, 15 percent 10 of the contract is for hauling. 11 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's the 12 minimum. We had -- I think our responses 13 have been -- may prove to be significantly 14 higher than that, but that was the minimum 15 requirement.
Okay. Well, let's work with the numbers that we know. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
So, 15 percent of the $45 million is... Rounded off that's about $7 million. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
Right? Is that right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. 1967 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Okay. And so, the minority participation aspect of this is 35 percent of the $7 million. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, at a minimum.
Right. Which is what? $2 million? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: $2.5, I believe.
$2.5 million. So... And I understand the challenge, in terms of dealing with the hauling versus the disposal. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mm-hmm.
But I mean, the effective percentage here is $2.5 million on a $45 million contract. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Which is, what? Six percent? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Maybe? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I would add, though, that we found in our last contract 1968 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 that we probably had an average of 70, 80 percent.
I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: 70 to 80 percent participation, not the minimum 35. The actual was significantly higher.
Okay. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The land filling offers very limited opportunity because there's no new construction.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: These are all existing landfills.
Now, do I understand that there's been a change, with regard to minority participation in our current contract? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. One of our vendors has substituted or was requested substitution for one M.B.E. W.B.E. firm for two other M.B.E. W.B.E. firms. 1969 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Okay. And what was the nature of that request? What happened? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Let me gather my thoughts for a moment, Councilman. That's one that is under... I've been told that there are lawsuits coming out of this. I'm a little concerned about what to say or what not to say.
Yeah. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Off the top of my head, I don't want to say the wrong thing.
I understand. If I were you, I'd be concerned, too. Why don't we come back to that. And you'd probably like to move off of the trash topic for a moment anyway. So, Madam President, if it's okay, can I move into another area?
Yes. And Councilman Rizzo's been waiting. So, if you don't mind.
Councilman 1970 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Rizzo.
Well, I'm only going to be brief. So, one question; but we're going to stay on trash. One of the problems that I recognize when we ask people costs around here, we never get really sometimes the straight answer. So, I want to go back over a question I asked earlier. I'm... Is it correct that your equipment is not in your budget? Your trucks, they all come out of Fleet Management's budget, correct? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Most of it.
Well, I just want to be -- make sure that I've asked a question earlier correctly in reference to your own transportation unit within the Streets Department. I want to make sure that I ask the question, that you come back with the information, that you don't exclude the fact that much of this may be outside of your area 1971 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 of budget. It might be in Fleet Management, the trucks. The drivers, I assume are in your budget. The vehicles, the fuel, Fleet Management. After hearing all this back and forth, what I'd really like to know, per ton. What do we pay per ton, including the vehicles, including the fuel, including the maintenance, including everything. I don't want you to come back at me with a number that doesn't include the real costs of that. I've learned that you've got to ask the right question around here to get the right answer. And sometimes you don't ask a question as clear... There's no -- There's no question what I'm asking. The entire costs of that operation, from Domino to transport debris to a landfill and back, all of the costs: The trucks the fuel, the maintenance, the drivers, the employees, everything. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mm-hmm.
And I'd like that 1972 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 broken out to what that cost per ton. There is a standard for transportation per ton, right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
What is that transportation of? If it were done by the private sector, what would it be per ton? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Oh, you're asking their standard pricing. That varies. There is no single pricing for that.
But... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It is thoroughly guided by the marketplace. And that is one of the things that we are seeing with our R.F.P., our responses right now.
But if you're under contract, that's not a factor any longer. That's the price. It's like we buy fuel. Right now we're buying fuel for 80 cents a gallon. We got lucky. The cost when the contract... My point is, once you lock into a deal, those prices don't change, correct? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: If that's the 1973 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 term of your contract, but you can have contracts that will allow some risk sharing.
Okay. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: So that as fuel prices go up, the partners may share in that risk or if fuel prices go down, they share in that. And quite often with hauling, that is one of the things that happens.
Okay. What I would like, when the information comes back, that it's an accurate, not one that leaves out something. I'd like to know what we're paying, what our costs are per ton to do that operation from Domino Lane to the landfill. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
And back and forth. And do you have any new trucks or equipment? Do you have any new tractor trailers that you've asked for from Fleet Management to support that operation? I understand our equipment's kind of old, and -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. 1974 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
-- in some cases there's some concern about the road worthiness of some of that equipment. Are you asking for any new equipment? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
How many? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I don't know the number off the top of my head.
Would you provide the number also on how many new... I'd like to know how many vehicles you have in that operation, tractor trailers, and maybe the property numbers, so we can determine the age, and how many new that you've asked for to support that operation. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
You're welcome. The Chair again recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Are we 1975 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 going to flip a coin as to who's next?
You're going to yield to Councilman Clarke. Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President and Councilman Nutter. Commissioner, with respects to drop sites throughout the City of Philadelphia where a resident can drop debris, household trash or... Are there sites other than white metal or things of that nature where a person can drop regular household trash? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, those convenience centers.
Where are they at? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There's State Road in Ashbrenner, Delaware and Wheatsheaf, 51st and Grays. You're talking about city facilities, correct? Just to make sure I answer the right thing. City facilities.
I mean, do we 1976 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 have non-city facilities where you can do that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There are certainly private centers where you can take trash but you have to pay.
You have to pay. I'm talking about free. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. The city facilities for house -- for residents. 51st and Grays, 63rd and Passyunk, Domino and Umbria.
Is there anywhere in North Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have been in discussion with Public Property to try to retrieve a Streets Department property in North Philadelphia.
Isn't that the site that we agreed to sell to a metal fabrication company? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: My 1977 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 understanding is that that agreement or that deal is not going to happen.
Oh, really? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I've heard.
Based on... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not trying to share new news. But that's --
We're hearing that for the first time. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: -- but that's what I have been told.
Is that the only site that's being looked at? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We are looking for a city-owned facility that's strategically located. That was a good-sized facility and has a very good location, and it does offer a lot of conveniences to -- It would offer a lot of conveniences to the citizens of the area.
Are you looking at that site because of the elimination of 1978 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 the trash day or is that something that you would do anyway? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. We had asked the --
Because that site's been there for a long time. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
It's actually being used as a dump site currently. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. We had started to pursue this, and then we had heard that it was going to be transferred. So, it kind of happened all at the same time. And then we stopped that discussion and have been trying to look for other places. But then we recently heard that that deal may not be going through. We're now back in discussions with Public Property or Capital.
Where did you hear that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Some of the staff told me that.
That that deal 1979 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 wasn't going to be consummated with the company? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right. Yes.
So, could that -- Well, I shouldn't ask you that question because you wouldn't know that. So, if that facility -- If that site's not available, what do you -- what's your option? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We don't have another facility at the moment that offers a good option, but we're investigating. I think that we've begun some talks with other agencies to see if we can find some location.
Are any -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We really believe it's an important type facility to have. It offers a great value to the community. Be able to take trash or bulk items.
The sites that you referenced earlier, are they in... What type of neighborhoods? Residential neighborhoods, commercial areas -- 1980 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right.
-- mixed or are they in proximity to residential homes? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They're all in commercial/industrial. They are all in our facilities. We have the facility at 26th and Glenwood. And it's more residential there, I would say, than anything that we have in our other trash facilities around the city.
Well, you know the site at Sedgley is right in the heart of a residential community. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. I understand that.
Do you think that's an appropriate place to put a dump site? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think... Well, these facilities are fairly clean. It's not necessarily a dump site. We have some very good standards about how we keep them clean. Trash doesn't sit there. Material goes in dumpsters, and 1981 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 we're constantly dumping the dumpsters, the bulk materials. And each have piles that accumulate, and we are readily emptying those out. But we find that there's a great deal of usage from the people who don't want to hold their trash until their trash day. They will bring in a bag of fish or...
I mean, I understand that. I'm just... And I didn't know that you were looking at that as your primary option, because it's my intention to proceed with the conveyance to the -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right. And we're not in the way of that.
-- individual who's going to build the manufacturing fabrication plant. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right. And as I said, we certainly defer to that. And it only became a discussion item again when we had heard that that wasn't going to happen.
If somehow that our attempt to get this developed for 1982 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 commercial use gets derailed, is there a process that has to happen prior to you locating a drop-off site or will you just simply just decide to do it, like you did with the elimination of... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. Site...
Is there any citizen's input or -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Absolutely.
-- Councilmanic input -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Absolutely.
-- in terms of whether or not you can do that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Absolutely.
Or because you own it, you can just do whatever you want to do? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. There's siting issues, permits issues possibly. So, all those things come into play. So, it would be a site acquisition is one thing.
Well, you said that the Streets Department owns it, right? 1983 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Or Public Property. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Streets Department owned it, but it was not -- it is not permanent as a... It didn't have permits for it, maybe the use that we're talking about. So, there's permits that have to go through. And there most definitely is community...
Permits that are required through zoning or permits that can be gotten from Council? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Possibly zoning and D.E.P. So, all those things would have to be evaluated. But I think probably Paramount would be, you know, the community feedback. Because the community didn't want it there. It doesn't work that way.
The community didn't want you to take away that trash day. So, you did that. So, don't tell me about community input. That doesn't mean -- That doesn't mean anything. 1984 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We've never sited a facility without having the community dialogue. We've never sited a facility, to my knowledge, not in the time that I've been here.
Yeah, but having dialogue and having the ability to impact on the final decision is two different things. I mean, you put out a bunch of flyers and said, oh, we're changing your trash day. So, you could conceivably say, well, let's dialogue. But, you know, wasn't like a response that was going to mean anything. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
All right. All right. I just wanted to have a sense of... So, that's the only... That will be the only site north, and I guess essentially, because basically what you're talking about are facilities to some degree around the perimeters, like northeast. Really nothing in Logan, Tioga, north. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No, there's 1985 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 nothing in those locations.
East, north, Center City. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We had Delaware and Spring Garden, but we no longer own that facility.
So, those individuals, the people who now will have their white metal pickups eliminated can take that to those locations? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
So, the people that live in the existing area that has no 15 dump site, no drop-off site, we have to go all the way to Domino or Passyunk to... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Or Passyunk Avenue. Presently. Unless we can find some other opportunities. I mean, it certainly won't happen in that short near term like that.
See, this is kind of -- This is my concern, Commissioner. You know I respect you. And, you know, off the record I like you. I mean, we're cool. 1986 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 But you seem to be embarking on this -- this elimination of the trash day without any real regard to the impact on the citizens in that area. You know, I mean, you kind of like, we're going to do it and then we'll worry about the aftermath later. I mean, because I would have thought, if it were me -- and I guess I'm a politician so I'm a little different -- but I would have made sure that there was a reasonable alternative in those areas. I would not have done this in mid-stream because I'm still not buying the whole premise about the change in refuse patterns, as it relates to people putting out trash. I mean, you got budgeted to do whatever you got to do, to do as it relates to that fiscal year. So, in my estimation you shouldn't have done it in the middle of the fiscal year. You maybe should have had the notification process take place, but not after the fact, as far as I'm concerned, 1987 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 because you gave a real small lead time into implementing this program. So, it seems like, you know, you guys made a decision. You got the signoff from the administration, you know, understanding the somewhat controversial nature of this issue. And you kind of like went full steam ahead, and whatever happens after that you'll figure out a way to try and fix it. And that's one of the things that... Other than you actually taking it away, that are really problematic to me. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mm-hmm.
You know what I'm saying? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I do understand.
So, I just want you to get a sense of where I'm coming from with this issue because this is not a small thing. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right. I do appreciate what you're saying, but I would 1988 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 say that I think that we have a plan to try to be pro-active with the issues that you're talking about, with the things that we anticipate. We anticipate that people may not get the message the first time which is why it was delivered two, three, four times, that after the program started people still may not have the right behavior.
Commissioner, you sent the notice out two weeks before the change. I don't call that being very pro-active. All right? It's two weeks before the change. That's not what I call pro-active. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Pro-active in terms of the response, dealing with what would happen to the trash. If people could not -- If they didn't put it out on the right day, if there continued to be confusion.
Yeah, but that's after the fact. It's not pro-active. It's after the fact. After the fact you implemented a program. Then they put it out 1989 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 on the wrong day. Now you're responding to them putting it out on the wrong day. That's not pro-active. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, we anticipate people continuing to put their materials out on the wrong day because they didn't get the message the first time, didn't understand it or didn't want to abide by it. So, in anticipation of that, we had an education process to continue to remind people, you know, call them the night before and say that trash day is tomorrow.
Two weeks. Two weeks, Commissioner. You gave them two weeks. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Two weeks.
25,000 households. You gave two weeks. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, what the nature of trash is, you don't necessarily accumulate it over time.
I'm not talking about the trash. I'm talking about the education process and the notification 1990 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 process. You gave them two weeks. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right.
I got one of those notices. Notice? Two weeks? Two weeks (Indicating). COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There's nothing that we expected the citizens to do two weeks ahead of time or a month ahead of time. The changeover in service was from one week to the next which is why we had the iterative of educational processes where, you know, the phone calls, the knock on the doors, the flyers, and things like that.
All right. Okay. I said earlier what I was interested in getting at. And I really need to talk to you about, you know, some options, as it relates to white metal drop-offs and -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
-- household refuse, because I don't think it's fair -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I understand. 1991 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
-- for an area that has no options, you know. In some instances, people who might have the least opportunities to take refrigerators and things of that nature to other locations. All right? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
Thank you. Councilman Nutter. Do you wish to be recognized at this time?
Yes, Madam Chair. Thank you. Commissioner, let's talk about kind of the meat and potatoes of the place. Some time ago or up until some time ago we were receiving these weekly status reports from the Streets Department on any number of projects and activities and other issues. And they stopped some time ago. Do you have any idea why? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm not sure 1992 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 what the weekly status report was, Councilman.
I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm not sure what weekly report you're referring to.
There used to be either on a weekly basis or it would lay out for a number of weeks in the past or for the future a report of activities out of the Streets Department. It could have been capital project work or other initiatives going on in the department. And they just kind of stopped. Can you check on that within the department? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I can check.
They just stopped. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: In recent 1993 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 times? The last couple months?
Relatively recent. Somewhere within the past year or so. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
Okay? Do you have any status report on Haverford Avenue which was severely damaged from the storm? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. The work began on that location on March 14th, and it's going to take about five weeks to be completed.
And is that leading to traffic one way in each direction or is this full restoration? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Full restoration.
Started was March 14th? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: March 14th.
And it's a five-week job? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. 1994 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
So, it will be fully repaired? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm sorry?
Okay. What's the cost on that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: About $250,000.
Are we paying for that or is that coming from PennDOT or Federal funds? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: City.
City? Okay. It's my understanding that last fall the leaf collection stopped before the announced deadline, supposedly because the leaf recycling center was full. Do you have any information about that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'd have to get you the details on that. The leaf recycling center is operated by Fairmount Park, and we work in conjunction with them. I'm not -- I don't recall it 1995 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 stopping early. I do note that we were challenged and had to take it to different locations, but I don't remember it stopped -- the program stopping early. But I will check on that information for you.
And this is a much longer discussion. And you and I have talked about a couple of these points. But it seems that we need some more serious discussion with regard to the whole leaf collection situation. And obviously the department can't be out every other day when five leaves fall, but there are continual situations in various parts of at least my district, where the first wave comes through, there's another wave. Nothing happens with them. That's in some parts of Wynnefield and Overbrook. And other parts of the district, continued confusion about leaves at the curb, bag leaves, bag leaves going with the regular trash, do they go, do they not go, they pick up the trash, they don't take the leaves, and how long they're going to sit 1996 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 out there. So, I know the notice has come out. They usually come out about a week or so before the program is to start. And we try to do a mailing to our constituents. But there just generally seems to be continued consternation with regard to the leaf situation. And maybe after these hearings we can engage in a more serious discussion about it. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, sir.
Okay. Curbs and sidewalks. I have copies of some letters from which I'm awaiting a reply. 3000 block of North Bambrey made a request back on February 3, 2004, and a follow-up request on May 24, 2004. I have no 20 answer to that. 5500 block of Harmer, May 24th. Unit block of North Robinson. That was sent on March 12, 2003, and a copy to the Mayor. Driveways. 1300 block of Kimberly and 76th Street. 3300 block of Bailey, 1997 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 involving Fox and Westmoreland, again, all requests from March and August, respectively. I'd like to give you additional copies of the same letters. It would be helpful, whatever the answer is, just to get an answer. I think it is inappropriate for us to receive these letters -- Constituents, individuals or blocks take the time to inquire as to what's going on. Obviously, we need to get an answer either from the city administration or Streets directly. We have no ability to reply to the constituents if I don't get a letter back. Having laid all that out, what is the official policy with regard to curb and sidewalk reconstruction, as well as driveways? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Driveways and sidewalks do not have any specific program within the Streets Department to fund or support the repair renovations. On occasion there are a very limited number of sidewalks that get done when there 1998 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 is, like, wholesale utility work that is in the community. That is very, very limited. Property owners have that responsibility now, and we don't have a program to support modifying that.
Okay. Do you -- I know you're tremendously busy, but do you or any of the staff ever have an opportunity to read Governing Magazine? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. There was an article in the January 2005 edition about sidewalk issues, and some of the programs going on in a number of cities across the country. We've talked about this in the past, possibly not with Streets but certainly with O.H.C.D. and some of the other departments about a particular program in Chicago, instituted by Mayor Richard Daly out there. It seems that whenever the city is engaged in a project, whether it's Center City or some other places, in an effort to revitalize that community or transform it, 1999 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 the first step is often streetscape revitalization, which almost always involves curb and sidewalk replacement, often street lighting, as well as street tree placement. What I don't understand is why the city has taken such a hard position that on the one hand we want neighborhood transformation, we want neighborhood revitalization, but provide no assistance whatsoever in even a partnership with residents on one of the fundamental aspects of what a good block looks like and what a good block means, which is that you can walk down the block without risk of falling and that it maintains the appearance, and quite frankly, upkeeps -- maintains certain high value in the property. Has there been any internal discussion about change in the city's policy or modifying the city's policy, with regard to a continuing level of request for this type of service in many neighborhoods, that otherwise are viable and need this kind of support? 2000 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think that, you know, we have a challenging situation, particularly given that the ability to financially support that is not evident. So, we do not have a program to repair sidewalks.
Well, Commissioner, I would only say to you, very respectfully -- and you know I admire your work -- the city decides what it wants to spend its money on. And if it's a priority for somebody, we make the expenditure. There are any number of programs that, you know, didn't exist, whether it was last year, two years ago, five years ago. And miraculously, funding is made available when it is deemed to be a priority by either someone in the administration or, you know, grudgingly at times, even the paltry requests of members of City Council. So, I would only ask you, as the Streets Commissioner, to be an advocate for not only the roadway but the walkway, and that that combination is what makes our city streets and our walkways that much more 2001 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 attractive. I'm going to give to you when the hearing is over copies of the correspondence that I mentioned, as well as a list of other properties in various parts of the district that have sidewalk issues. As I said, whatever the response is, I'd just like to have a response, get it to the citizens, and then the citizens can engage in whatever action -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: You deserve it.
-- they would like to take. Lastly, tell me about the retaining wall program. What is its status and its future? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay. Retaining walls. I think that we expect to complete our fourth contract very, very shortly. That would be the Windsor and Hunter Streets.
Windsor? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Windsor. 2002 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
And Hunter? Hunter. Is that the 5700 block? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I am not sure.
Okay. So, those are the only two in that contract? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. And future activities? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We do not have any plan at this point. The funding for that is... It does not exist at this point.
Is this the funding that came from N.T.I. funds? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. And the present funding level is how much? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I believe it's one point -- Wait until I get the exact number. $1.5 million. $1.5 million.
$1.5 million is available in this fourth contract for these two walls? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Oh, no. No. 25 That is what has been available to take care 2003 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 of retaining walls.
Right. That was the total amount that was available. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. What's the cost of these two walls? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: These two walls are about $120,000.
Each? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm sorry. I apologize. These two walls are $250,000 each.
So it's $500,000. Okay. And has there been any discussion about future funding for the retaining wall program? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think there's some discussion going on about what will happen. I'm not sure where that will conclude, but certainly there's been 2004 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 discussion about it.
Okay. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: As well as trying to retrieve some of the payments from the citizens.
Mm-hmm. Well, these discussions, I mean, do you have a sense of when there will be a conclusion or a decision made? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I do not have a sense of that as yet.
Who's making that decision? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I believe this is a program or an issue that will probably be addressed through Pat Smith with N.T.I.
Okay. One final question. With regard to the waste disposal contract and its process that started back in June of 2004, you made mention of, of course, your department and the Law Department being involved in this process. Were there any other departments involved in this? 2005 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Managing Director's Office.
Okay. Okay. Any other parts of the government? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. 7
Okay. So, it's been solely between Streets, Law and the Managing Director's Office? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. What's the role of the Mayor's Office in this? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: At the conclusion of the process, we would make recommendations to him or to the Mayor's Office for their approval, before submitting to -- before submitting to Council.
Okay. Who makes the final decision? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Who will make the final decision?
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, Council ultimately is going to approve the ordinance, but the -- 2006 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
But before it comes here, it's going to have a recommendation. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Right. The recommendation --
Who in the administration makes the final decision? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The recommendation will come out of this -- the committee, which is Streets, Managing Director's Office, Law Department, and City Council.
What's the Mayor's Office role in all this? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: After we make our recommendation, then we would send it to the Mayor's Office for their review and approval.
Okay. Do you know who will make that final approval? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The Mayor will sign the documents to forward it to City Council, but the recommendation will come out of the committee. 2007 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)
Hearing no 10 one, I thank you very much. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you.
Thank you. And we will notify you of the callback date. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow, Wednesday, March 30th, at 10:00 a.m., at which time we will hear from Licenses and Inspections. Thank you all very much. (Hearing concluded at 4:35 p.m.) 2008 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the public hearing of The Philadelphia City Council, taken on March 29, 2005, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. _____________________________ DAVID A. DEIK, RPR and Commissioner of Deeds (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)