Well, the other thing to keep in mind, Councilman -- I know about East Falls, of course. We also have documentation for Spruce Hill, for Overbrook Farms, and a preliminary --
-- submission for Parkside. I think it might be prudent, at least, as you're well aware, and Councilwoman Blackwell put together a task force to examine the whole designation process.
-- you know, I am very hesitant to say to you, oh, yes, if we do this, then the following.
Okay. All 1811 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 right. I understand. I assume this discussion will continue. And as I said, I know that there might be other districts out there. For the moment, you know, these two have, I think, moved as far as they can on their own --
-- through this process, and are now right at the door, literally, of the Historic Commission. And... You know, I'm just trying to give the constituents as much information as possible and some direction as to what those next steps should be. But thank you very much for the information.
Thank you, Madam President. I, too, would like to thank Dick 1812 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Tyler, who comes from my district, for his hard work in this area; albeit we've many discussions and a task force to deal with the Spruce Hill issue. The East Parkside one, I think, will be a lot easier because there is the unanimity -- seems to be unanimity of opinion on that one. But certainly I say to my colleague, I have learned a whole lot about this, more than I ever wanted to know. But I think that the whole issue of the role of a historic commission, what they should do, who should get funded, why and how, are being discussed. And that's important. And who should make decisions about what neighborhoods want, what residential neighborhoods want, insofar as historic designations are concerned. But having said all of that, Dick Tyler has been very sincere and has worked very hard. And we thank him for his years of service. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Mr. Tyler.
Mr. Tyler, I showed these pictures to you once before at one of your Historic Commission meetings. And my question or my comments are, this property is located at 5339 Germantown Avenue, and it's been vacant for more than a decade. A recent L & I inspection at my request found there to be 30 unsecured openings, each of which is a separate offense for which a separate fine may be imposed. The owner was served with an Equity Court complaint and fined, but the building remains vacant and dangerous and unimproved. There's a high school. Germantown Friends High School is located across the street, and there's a pretty active church 1814 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 right next to the property. And both of those institutions have requested demolition of this horrible looking property. Numerous children pass this site daily. It's right on Germantown Avenue, so there's, you know, lots of people walking by for shopping. And I guess my bottom line question is, why does the Historic Commission resist ending the historic designation for this building in order to facilitate its demolition? It's like we're stuck. It's certified historical. In my area you did decertify some of the lots, but this building needs to get decertified so we can get this torn down.
There is no need to remove a building from the register to have it demolished. We recognize at all levels of government that demolition is inherent in preservation. Some are going to go.
And our ordinance 25 contains provisions for the demolition of 1815 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 buildings that are on the register. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no application for a demolition permit for this building. It may also be one, although I'm not absolutely certain of this, where the owner has been cited for demolition by neglect. There's a provision in the ordinance for that. After all, an owner does bear some responsibility here.
And I think this is one where the owner has been sort of flagrantly ignoring and neglecting the building.
Right. We have taken the owner to Equity Court, but I think because this is historically designated he thinks that there's generating -- you know, maybe it's going to generate some interest, because as you can see from some of the photos, there's a sale sign that's been on this building for about 15 years.
And no one is interested. And in fact, it would cost so much to improve that, you know, the historical designation is really what took it out of the market for improvement. So, what we would need to do, then, is just go on and investigate. We have turned this into L & I for demolition. It's, like, one of our top priorities.
Well, no. The owner should make application at L & I for a demolition permit. He or she will then be referred to the commission. It will go to the Architectural Committee, and from there to the full commission and public hearings.
And this is certainly the type of building that the commission would -- This is the type of building the commission would support getting demolished, correct? This is the type of building the commission would support getting demolished?
Well, I think, depending upon what the application shows. Yes. I 1817 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 mean, buildings come down regularly.
Okay. I'll give you a call if we run into any problems.
We've got to get this building down. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Dr. Tyler.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)
Okay. The committee will stand in recess until 1:15 at which time we will have the Streets Department testifying. Thank you. (Public hearing recessed from 12:20 p.m. to 1:42 p.m.)
This is a 1818 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 continued public hearing of the committee of the whole. We will now be hearing from the Streets Department Commissioner. Good afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you very much. Good afternoon. My name is Clarena Tolson, Commissioner of the Department of streets. We request a General Fund appropriation of $118 million. We request a General Fund appropriation of $118 million and all fund appropriation of $148 million. 2 million from fiscal 2005 estimated obligations. This consists primarily of $3 million in reduction in personnel services and $2 million increase in purchased services. The overall request for the department for all funds, General Fund counting liquid fuels, special gas and grants 1819 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 revenue is a net 186 higher than our fiscal 2005 estimated obligations. The net decrease to the General Fund represents significant staffing reductions to the department for workforce right sizing. However, there is an increase -- there is an increase to purchase services totaling $2 million, consisting primarily of increased disposal cost. Although the department will be able to provide normal delivery of its core services, we have proposed some reduction in services, most notably the elimination of curb-side collection of light metals. The FY2006 budget request for sanitation was $97 million for all funds. This includes $90 million in the General Fund, a decrease of $600,000 from FY2005 estimated obligations, due to staffing reductions within a division, as offset by increase in the purchase of services for disposal contracts. Sanitation will continue to provide a variety of programs designed to collect and 1820 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 dispose of trash, as well as divert receptacles from the waste stream. Council collections. 6 percent last year. The on-time collection rate, 94 percent in FY2004 is targeted at 97 percent for FY2005 and 2006. 35 tons for 2006. We expect to reach these goals by continuing to focus on maximizing efficiency and productivity through innovation and collection route optimization. Beginning in spring 2005 the department will reduce curbside bulk of collections by eliminating white metals and tires. We will continue curbside collections for sofas, chairs, bureaus and other like items. 1821 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 In addition, the department will continue to maintain its neighborhood convenience centers which will accept all bulk materials. But fiscal 2006 requests for sanitation funds, be it cleaning schedule for material and commercial corridors, as well as the neighborhood cleaning program. The street cleaning program targets street debris and litter with a fleet of mechanical street sweepers and versatile ride-on, walk-behind motorized sidewalk cleaners. In fiscal 2005, 87,000 miles of street were projected to be cleaned. Fiscal 2006 miles are budgeted at 86,750 miles which reflects a slight reduction, due to staffing adjustments. With regard to recycling, in fiscal 2004, 44,000 tons of recyclables were collected. Projections for FY'05 are 47,000 tons, and 51,000 tons in FY'06. Market forecasts for the coming year are positive and we anticipate a strong 1822 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 revenue stream for FY2006. Of note, the city is entering the last year of a three-year contract extension that expires at the end of fiscal 2006. We are in the process of developing a bid that will provide for a four-year term with three one-year extensions, including a section asking vendors to provide market prices for the emerging single stream recycling approach, thus enabling the city to project the potential impact of a conversion to single stream. Phase I of the single stream pilot was launched in October of 2004 that includes 5,500 homes in parts of Chestnut Hill, Germantown, and West Oak Lane.
With single stream packer trucks utilizing compaction replace the standard compartmentalized trucks now in use. Plastic and corrugated cardboard are added to the regular setup materials, and all recyclables are loaded into the compactor. The processor later sorts materials. The goal is to recycle more materials with greater 1823 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 collection efficiency. Toxic hazardous waste. During fiscal 2004, there was a percent increase 5 in participation in the collection of 6 approximately 332,000 pounds of household 7 hazardous materials. This program reduces 8 the amounts of hazardous materials impacting 9 our environment. 10 About 2000 gallons of household 11 hazardous waste collected was used motor oil. 12 Just one quart of motor oil discharged 13 through the storm drain is enough to create a 14 two-acre sized oil slick on surface water. In addition, about 100 pounds of mercury was collected which is toxic to the human nervous system. Six dropoff events were planned for 2005 and 2006, and participation is projected to increase about ten percent per year. Additionally, this fall the department will be submitting an ordinance 23 for the city's continued participation in the regional intergovernmental agreement. This allows Philadelphia residents to participate 1824 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 in any one of regional programs around the -- around our area. Special services. The SWEEP program provides education and enforcement of the city's regulations and ordinances. Pertaining to refuse and recycling collections, sidewalk cleaning and proper maintenance of dumpsters. This program is divided into commercial corridors and residential areas. Violations and non-compliance to city regulations are typically addressed in a sequence of education and enforcement. The department recently restructured SWEEP to improve its efficiency, by increasing patrol time and decreasing travel time. , Philadelphia More Beautiful Committee, tries to recruit block captains and junior block captains to continue as to volunteer cleaning and beautification efforts around the city. In calendar year 2004 there were 89,000 volunteers and 10,000 blocks that were 1825 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 cleaned. Waste disposal. The city is currently in the final option year of its two disposal contracts that expire on June 30, 2005, and the Streets Department is negotiating new waste disposal contracts to take effect July 1, 2005. That will determine the overall disposal costs for the city. At issue -- Another issue that could have significant impact on disposal costs is a diminishing landfill capacity in the Philadelphia region. P. With disposal rates already expected to rise, tightening landfill capacity in the region could have serious consequences. The Highway Engineering Traffic and Street Lighting Divisions provide the Department of Transportation services. The goal of this division is to provide cost effective and functionally safe movement on 1826 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 streets and bridges for public transit, commerce, automobiles, bicycles and pedestrians. We accomplish this by continually exploring now approaches to improve productivity and service delivery, such as investment and innovative geographic and management information systems. In January 2004, the department implemented a pilot test automatic vehicle locator systems and equipment sensing technology for use with our highway operations. Equipment was placed in 44 vehicles. By electrically monitoring salt usage, the department is better able to utilize salt reserves, possibly reducing usage by ten percent, and more quickly responding to changing weather conditions. The effectiveness of this system will be evaluated after the season. The system is also being utilized by the asphalt unit's resurfacing activities.
With regard to roadway maintenance 1827 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 for fiscal 2005 and 2006, the Highway Division projects resurfacing 122 miles of streets, placing 85 linear miles of pavement markings and completing 7,500 ditch restorations. The department repaired 23,000 potholes in fiscal 2004, and projects repairs of 25,000 in 2005 and 2006. The department continues to invest in maintenance techniques that extend the life cycle of streets. In fiscal 2004 the department purchased three new crack sealers and completed 189,000 linear feet of crack sealing. This technique prevents water from entering the subbase, a major cause of potholes and premature roadway failures. We project 500,000 linear feet in 2006. Right-of-way ordinance. The right-of-way ordinance was introduced to Council on February 3, 2005. It will provide policy regulations and cost recovery for managing street openings and occupancy of streets right-of-ways by telecommunication, 1828 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 utilities and other service providers. This ordinance represents an historic collaboration between the city and public and private users of the city's rights-of-way. It is a result of months of vigorous discussion, and it achieves a common ground that will accommodate the needs of all parties. Storm response. The Streets Department continues to provide effective snow removal. For fiscal '05 through March 18th, we responded to 12 storms and used 35,000 tons of salt. Plowing residential streets continues to be a part of the snow and ice operations plan. We continue to work with the Managing Director's Office and other operating departments in coordinating this effort. Following a best practices approach to snow and ice operations anti-skid material is used, in combination with salt, to extend the life of the salt supply and aid in vehicle traction. 1829 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Also, snow melting machines are leased. And salt brine, a mixture of salt and water, is used in higher elevation neighborhoods. This is more cost effective than the traditional salting process because the brine mix uses optimal concentrations of the salt. These strategies will continue to be used in fiscal 2006. Traffic engineering. In fiscal 2005, 80 of the city's older traffic signals along arterial streets were upgraded. The modernized signals are linked to a centralized control center which allows the department to remotely modify traffic signal timing, in order to improve traffic flow and receive alerts about needed repairs. The Streets Department has a high priority on the safety of our school children, especially pedestrians. The department has established -- I'm sorry -- has installed school flashers at 189 schools. With a $1 million grant, the department has let a contract to install 1830 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 school flashers at the remaining 41 schools for which we have applications. They are prioritized by application date, council district and volume of traffic in the area of the school. This work is scheduled for completion in FY2006. The department has also applied for a state safe route to schools funding to install traffic control devices around schools. This will include flashers, signs and markings. Cut work is starting fiscal 2005, and the work should be completed in fiscal 2006. In conclusion, I'd like to say that the employees of the Streets Department continue to work diligently in delivery of services to our citizens and neighborhoods, and to improve the quality of life in our city by providing clean and safe streets. Therefore, we request your favorable consideration of this budget request.
Thank you so much, Commissioner Tolson. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you. 1831 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Commissioner, you mention on of your testimony that you will be eliminating the collection of white metals and tires in the spring of 2005. What is the termination date of this service? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Council President, we are still evaluating the options, some of which were discussed at our last meeting in Council. So, we have not set a date for termination of services yet.
That was my follow-up question. I think during our five-year plan public hearing, I think we had asked you to look into other alternatives. And I was wondering if you had done that, and could you share with us your findings. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. We've made contact with our neighboring communities in the -- in this area, as well as some other cities, to determine what they are doing with regard to these materials. It is a mixed story. Some collect 1832 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 the materials. Our neighboring suburbs, for the most part, they are charging for collection of refrigerators and the white metal items. Very few in our survey do anything with regard to legislation. We have checked with our Law Department and they have advised us it is possible to do legislation that requires vendors to take away an old appliance when they deliver a new appliance. So, we will be pursuing that idea. We have also begun discussions with some of the hauling community. I think I referred to them before as scavengers, which is not the right term, but private haulers. There's no association per se of these businesses. We're talking to them individually about the opportunities if they haul or take away and give it to us, how that can work. We've also been approached by one of the large metal processors in the city who is evaluating an idea that they approached us about which was that they would collect 1833 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 materials for us at no cost if they could have materials once collected. So, we're pursuing all of those ideas. Given that there's no conclusion on that issue that, we do not yet have a termination date for that service.
All right. Thank you. Commissioner, you did make mention in your testimony that the current trash disposal contract will expire June 30th. Are you currently in negotiations for new trash contracts? And if so, when did you start the process? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have been in negotiations since, I guess, late February with respondents to an R.F.P. The R.F.P. was let in the end of November, and responses came in the end of January. I believe it was January 28th. So, since that time, we have had a number of -- we had a number of meetings prior to the responses, pre -- pre R.F.P. meetings. And then since that time we've had 1834 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 a number of round robin discussions and negotiations about terms and conditions and pricing.
Well, when do you expect to submit the trash ordinance 7 to City Council? You know, the time frame doesn't allow any time for us to review the ordinance, and I can't understand why it would be coming to us so late. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We do apologize for that. It's one where we have actually had -- If you'll remember a year ago, we tried to pursue the notion of doing a different type of term for a contract. That did not work out. And so we instead pursued the normal traditional four-year with three one-year renewals, and we got that out earlier in the last year. We have a group of people who are involved in this discussion, and we do have someone from Council staff who participates in those discussions, that they are aware of what's going on.
Okay. 1835 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Commissioner, on of your detail, you're requesting $203,700 in FY'06 for I.T. and G.S.I. consulting contracts. What services are you receiving and why have you engaged them? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm sorry. Could you repeat that again, please?
I'm sorry. It's 37-107. Actually, they're budgeted over $600,000 over the next -- for the last three years. What is it that they do? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Which line was it, Miss Verna? I'm sorry.
37-107. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. And I'm sorry. I didn't hear the vendor that you were talking about.
Okay. You're requesting $203,700 in FY'06 for I.T. and G.S.I. consulting contracts. What services are you receiving and why have you budgeted over $600,000 for this 1836 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 over the last three years? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm going to have Evelyn Kroll, who's our head of I.T. answer that.
Evelyn Kroll. I'm the I.T. Director for the Streets Department. And this is primarily for staff augmentation. We have --
I'm sorry. I'm the I.T. Director for Streets Department. And this is primarily for staff augmentation, advanced skills for programming for some of our very complex applications that aren't in staff. We have a very small programming staff, and this augments really complex programming that we have. 1837 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Well, they don't support agency applications. These are specialized to the Streets Department.
We have... There are a lot of applications that we have that support our operations. And one of the major applications is what's called the Guarantee Pavement Information System that coordinates all the submissions for permitting, opening a -- street openings and closings. And it coordinates not only internally with our department, but also our external partners, utilities, et cetera. And it's very a complex application, using our mapping, and also our... you know, our operations, coordinating with our pavement managements. It's different systems. And it's a very complex system. That's one of our key programs which we get expert help with because we only have a very small programming 1838 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 staff.
Very well. Thank you. I see a number of Council members would like to be recognized. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill for the first go-around.
Thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, I have to say, most of the things the Streets Department does today they do a lot better than they used to do, at least in terms of complaints that I see. Trash, recycling, traffic engineering, snow removal. Not perfect, but it's a lot better than it was just a few years ago, which leads me to the one area that is one of the worst things I've seen in years. 20 The city finally -- The Streets 21 Department finally gets in with the rest of 22 the world in putting gravel in with the salt 23 as an anti-skid measure. 24 People across the country do it as a 25 matter of course, have done it for years. 1839 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 We finally do it. We completely screw it up. There are stones, piles of them everywhere in my district. Nobody's been notified. Nobody's been apologized to. There's been no explanation. This is something that has caused damage to cars, damage to homes because it's being tracked in. It's all over the place. It isn't just in the street any more. It's all over people's properties. And they're fuming. And I know there was a mistake made. I don't have a problem with that. It was our first time out. Anybody can make mistakes. But the after part, the aftermath of this has been what? There's going to be some clean up later. 10 million pounds have already been collected. I've got 71 streets that have been complaining for months that they've got piles of gravel in their street, much of which has been diluted onto their own properties and in their own houses. It destroys hardwood floors. It just causes a mess all over 1840 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 because it's being tracked throughout. Could you explain this? And I just say, the next time something like this happens, the best thing to do is make a public announcement that there was a mistake made, this is what we're going to do. People understand that. But there's a plan. If there's a plan, it's already two months too late to really solve the problem that many people are having. And it's one of the worst things I've seen. And it started out as a good idea. I still think it's a good idea to have anti-traction gravel mixed in with salt. When you mess up the ratios... You know, we were getting calls in January from the Streets Department responding, oh, it's going to dissolve; don't worry. They're going to -- They just disappear after a while. Well, they don't disappear. Some of them are the size of marbles. And they're piled up. And I can show you at least 71 blocks, blocks, that have complained and 1841 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 continue to complain that they don't have -- that this hasn't been removed from the street. Nobody's asking the Streets Department to come into their house. But it is -- For people that pay taxes and just want basic services, this is a black eye on the city and on the department, in my opinion. Could you respond, please? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, I'll say two things, though I'm not quite sure the mistake that you're referencing. I'm not clear on that --
Is this what it was supposed to be like, the way it's been done? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm not sure what you're --
Our information is that there was a mess-up, there was a mistake made, that there was a lot more stone in with the salt mixture than there should have been. I'm hoping it was a mistake, because 1842 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 if this was our intention, then we really fouled this up a lot more. I mean, there are piles of these stones all over. I'm told there's already been ten -- ten tons -- not -- Sorry. Not -- ten tons collected in clean-up efforts of this stuff. And I know there's a lot more out there, and it's been out there. And the longer it stays out there, the worse it is. So, if my information is wrong, that it was not the right mix, then I feel even worse, if this is what we actually intended to do. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The salt to anti-skid ratio is three to one in Philadelphia. In many of our surrounding communities, it's 100 percent anti-skid. So, we've had it diluted. And we use a lot more salt than other places may use. I would agree with you that some type of cleanup effort is needed afterwards on everyone's part. And we can try to work to develop some system to help with the cleanup. 1843 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 It will require cars being moved and things like that, but we can certainly work to achieve that. One of the reasons why there may be so much anti-skid on the street is because we did a lot of salting this year. We had a lot of storms. We had storms over 9 two-and-a-half months, and we were not shy 10 about trying to respond to it to make the 11 streets safe. 12 In terms of a mixup on the ratio one day, I'm not sure that that's true. We had a couple trucks where they received too much -- too much anti-skid. It was a one-to-one ratio of anti-skid to salt. And we had some jamming of those trucks. So it evidenced itself right away when the mix was not right. And the trucks didn't work. So, it didn't go out in the street and further foul the street. It instead damaged the trucks. Though we can certainly work to try to improve the conditions on the street with the debris that is remaining.
Commissioner, 1844 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 you seem surprised by this. I thought there was some planning going on, some serious planning. Is it just a problem in my district? And is there anybody here that can testify to this from within the department that works on this on a day-to-day basis? Because ten tons is a lot of stones already picked up, and there's probably a lot more than ten tons out there. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I'm not sure that there was ten tons of anti-skid used for this year. A lot was used, but I will say again, it was because we did respond --
I'm sorry. The ten tons refers to what I've been told has already been cleaned up by the Streets Department going out on complaints for gravel and stone piles in the street. Does anybody here work on this program? You have half the department here. I'm only kidding about that. It's just a large crowd. I hope there's somebody here that 1845 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 can address this. This is kind of an immediate problem. This isn't something like maybe we'll figure it out by July. It was a bad problem two months ago. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It's not true, is it? Frank. (Pause.) COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, we will get the numbers for you and how much was cleaned up in centers. I have -- I will say that I do not believe it was ten tons of material.
Okay. But is there a plan right now being worked on in the Streets Department to take care of all these -- These 71, I can guarantee you, aren't the only ones. When people call it's usually about 5 to 20 times more than that aren't calling. They're just seething in their homes, at least calling a Council office. So, my estimate is that it's, you know, a couple hundred, 300 blocks, at least, that have this problem in a very serious way. 1846 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Is there any plan in place or being worked on? Because I was told there was. At least it might have been late, but it wasn't, you know, just not being ignored. Today I'm hearing surprise; maybe we'll put a plan together. We don't have that kind of time on this. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There's no 10 surprise. My surprise is with the numbers that you used and the way you stated the problem. However, with regard to the cleaning of the debris along the gutter, there certainly is a plan for that. Our cleaning program began, I would say, two weeks ago. All of our streets could not be done at one time, but we have just begun our program, and we're certainly clearing away cinders and other debris from the gutters.
Is it all over the city or is it just in the northeast? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Cinders were used throughout the city. Throughout the city -- 1847 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
But is the problem with cinders all over the streets just in the northeast? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We've also received complaint calls, and they've only come from the northeast.
Are most of them from the northeast? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Most have come from the northeast.
Well, maybe it was in the northeast where these ratios were really screwed up and a lot more cinders were put down. They certainly haven't dissolved. That's the first thing we were told, they'll dissolve on their own. And it's not just in the gutters. You see piles of this. It's several inches high just from the rain and cars. But... I mean, I've got a pile in my driveway just from -- in my garage. I'm sorry. And you can't help it. You walk on them. They stick to your feet. You've got 1848 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 them in the house. This is not the way it's supposed to be done. I hope we can get more than just, you know, a count of, you know, when we might get out and do it. I'd like to see something fairly urgent to deal with the situation. I mean, 71 streets. Some of these are waiting for three months. And I know there's a lot more than that. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, I think we last applied cinders just two-and-a-half weeks ago. We had a need for salting, and as part of the salting process cinders were applied. So, we have not -- I would agree, we have not been cleaning since January behind each of the events, because at some point the storms are coming every week. And we just would not be able to do that. But we have, as I mentioned, begun with our cleaning efforts. And we began them just two weeks ago.
I have two issues. One, obviously, is that we're way 1849 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 behind the time frame we should have to deal with this. Secondly, though, is, if this is primarily a northeast problem, could somebody tell me why, so I can tell the people what happened, when we're going to take care of it? I mean, people are pretty reasonable. The first thing they want to know is, how did this ever happen; secondly, when is it going to get taken care of and how quickly? If I could get that in the next 24, 48 hours, I'd be real happy. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Surely.
Thank you. Good afternoon, Commissioner and staff. I want to confirm also that the northwest is affected by this. And I think the difference, 1850 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Commissioner, is, no one, I don't think, has seen this type of an application before in the city. I don't think we've frequently used cinders in our salting operations. What's okay on an interstate highway, I guess, is different than a residential neighborhood. I know the street that I live on, the entire curb lane is coated with cinders. And obviously it's good for traction, but there has to be some consideration to clean it up afterwards. I imagine how much of it is going into the Water Department's inlets at this point. And again, what's good for the suburbs isn't necessarily good for the city. I hope it wasn't just a way to have the salt go further. Hope it wasn't a budget issue that you couldn't get salt, and you decided to add... Because I can't imagine using traction control, in the areas that I've seen it. I mean, there's streets up in Chestnut Hill and Mount Airy that are totally 1851 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 covered with cinders. It's a dangerous situation underfoot, and also on a wet rainy day it's not a desirable condition to be driving on. So, I just want to confirm it's not just a northeast issue; it's a northwest issue also, upper northwest. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have applied cinders or the anti-skid material with salt throughout the entire city.
Just this year. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. We actually started several years ago. It actually had its impetus when there was a salt shortage a few years back and we could not get salt. And all of our surrounding communities were using just the anti-skid materials. And we made a choice not to use the anti-skid -- just anti-skid because it doesn't have the melting qualities. But it does have a real benefit that very low temperatures, when salt becomes ineffective, and it does provide a great deal 1852 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 of traction. The downside, obviously, is that you do have a residue after -- after the season. So, there's great benefit during snow. And after snow when spring comes and we all go outside, we're then seeing something that is not as attractive. But during the winter season, you know, having the anti-skid mix has been very critical to helping with our snow fighting application. And it does make us consistent with other communities.
I agree. We've had lots of snow. If we only had one or two, we probably wouldn't even be talking about it. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's right.
But since we had such frequent snowfalls, the applications have now all of a sudden added up. I think those mechanical brooms are the best investment that you've ever made. I think that if they get those out there as quickly as possible, trying to deal with some 1853 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 of this mess, it would be, I think, helpful. I want to move on. First of all, I would like to thank Charlie Traynor and everyone in your organization for the assistance in the installation of the red light cameras, the permits, and all of the guidance that they gave. I think Philadelphia, after the grace period, as you can see that intersection is obviously out of control. There's over 5,000 red light runners already on record at Grant Avenue and the Boulevard. So, I think that that intersection will be a safer place. And until we get the... Until we get the 90-some days or 80-some days of -- done with the grace period... The police are out there now doing some enforcement. So, again, thank you for your help with that. Would you send to the Chair -- And it seems as though these little projects are sneaking up on us every day. Could you send to the Chair all of the projects that the Streets Department will be undertaking to -- 1854 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 that could potentially disrupt traffic? We talked about the Bells Mill bridge. We know Cresheim Drive. We know West -- East Bells Mill Road. But a constituent called that lives on Wissahickon Avenue and indicated that there's a major project that will take out Wissahickon Avenue. It's a Water Department project. I don't understand why it is such a secret that we have all of these projects, especially when we indicated that there's such an effort to communicate, to get the people aware, that a major artery like Wissahickon Avenue -- I think it's between Allens Lane and maybe... where you go out to the Walnut Lane Circle there -- that that's going to be totally disrupted for months. Do you have any information on that? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: You said that is a Water Department project?
Water and Streets. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think it 1855 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 becomes a Streets Department project after the Water Department may do some of their work.
It's a Streets -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. It's a Water Department project. So they would have the lead on that.
I know nothing about... All I know is, I understand that there's a project for Wissahickon Avenue that could possibly take out that roadway for months. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We'll gladly check on that.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter for a point of information.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With regard to the one project that my colleague, Councilman Rizzo, makes reference to, that is a Water Department 1856 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 project. I have one side of Wissahickon Avenue. Councilwoman Miller has the other side. There have been a number of community meetings with regard to a multi-year project. My constituents in that part of the city are not on the Municipal sewer system, and many of them have failing septic systems on their properties. The Water Department over the past few years, certainly much to the chagrin of my constituents, have been trying to get on the Municipal sewer system for some time. And it's a very complicated project, due to the nature of the topography, the ownership of properties, and where the lines have to go. There will be some disruption to Wissahickon Avenue. But that's the nature of the project. And certainly the people who live up there are quite well aware of that -- of that project.
That shouldn't be a secret. We asked that question a few weeks 1857 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 ago about different projects that would be disruptive. And that was not one that was listed during our conversation. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think that was just mentioned. That's a Water Department project.
We asked Water and Streets. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, I can only account for why I didn't respond to it, because I wasn't aware of it.
It's a street. And if it's closed, it's yours. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Good enough. But we would like not just the District Council people. The At-large Members also would like to know if you could when the -- when you have a situation that's going to affect -- especially when we game the same calls. I'm not going to refer people to the District Councilperson's office. It's my 1858 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 responsibility to answer the questions. The other issue is what I consider a very bad situation, is the relationship between S.E.P.T.A. and the Streets Department on how we coordinate the various -- how we coordinate the various repairs that are necessary, especially during the pothole season. It seems very difficult for a constituent, without coming to a Council office or some other contact... The normal system just does not seem to work, where if you use your computer system to report a pothole in the area of responsibility of S.E.P.T.A. the communication... Would you describe what you do to bring these deficiencies to S.E.P.T.A. for repair? Because it seems like there is no system. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, in terms of the Streets Department participation in that process, we encourage our citizens to provide notice to us about any and all potholes they see on the streets. We don't -- do not ask the citizens 1859 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 to know the difference between a state street or a city street or something that may be a S.E.P.T.A. responsibility. And then the Streets Department assumes that responsibility to advise the other agencies, and make sure that they follow up with taking care of those things that they are responsible for. So, we have assumed that responsibility of providing notice to them. We don't formally have that responsibility, but we do that. And as a regular course of action, we receive requests for service to potholes, through any number of mechanisms. One is through our customer service phone lines; secondly, through our customer service web site; thirdly, through the star fix system which you helped put into place, the cell phone free calls. We have relationships with S.E.P.T.A. and PennDOT and we are in daily contact with them, with regard to any and all problems that have been given to us. 1860 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Commissioner, what is the physical communication? Because we get a D.S. number. Is that what it's called? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Then you check with S.E.P.T.A. And they don't seem to know that it was reported by the Streets Department. What physically happens? Because I would have hoped -- I would hope that S.E.P.T.A. would patrol the... especially Germantown Avenue, through the business district, from down into Germantown and Mount Airy. I mean, it's really very, very bad shape. So, a couple... I just don't understand the system. Once it's reported to you, does somebody pick up a phone and call S.E.P.T.A.? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. Yes.
Maybe that's the problem. Maybe they need it in writing. Maybe they need an e-mail. Because when you 1861 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 call over there and ask the status of a particular request for repair... There's a crater in Germantown just above Allens Lane, and they claimed after it was reported for two weeks that they didn't even know about it. So, I think that's kind of a little too informal, a phone call. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We can try to increase the accountability on their part and put it in writing and use faxes more or e-mails.
The tires and white metal. If tires are... If we get a report that there's been tires dumped in front of a vacant lot -- We're not talking about those tires not being picked up. You're talking about a person puts two old snow tires out in their trash. They won't be picked up. But if they're started -- If they're short-dumped someplace in the middle of a block, and they're there for weeks and weeks and weeks, and someone would call, they would be picked up, correct? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. Yes. 1862 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Yes.
And the same with a refrigerator or hot water heater or something like that, that's just dumped and it's not in front of a person's residence? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That becomes more questionable.
But we can't leave junk laying all over our city. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, one of the things that we will be developing as part of our approach to the white metals is that we don't want to encourage people to dump, to take it from their house and dump it in front of somebody else's.
But you don't have to encourage them. They're going to do that if... If this plan is implemented, a person that has something that they want to get rid of, they're just going to take it a few doors down. Like, I get calls that there's a vacant lot, and there's every day a different piece of trash that shows up on that vacant 1863 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 lot. So, I -- I mean, it's going to come back to bite you; but, you know, you do what you think is best. I'm not in support of eliminating that service unless we have a real good plan, but as long as you're assuring me that if they do short dump this stuff is going to get picked up. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. The tires are, most definitely.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. Oh, I'm sorry, Councilwoman. Councilman Nutter was next. He had asked for a point of information. Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, let's go back to your testimony on . I wanted to get more specific information about the waste disposal contract. You said we're in the final option 1864 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 year. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Of two disposal contracts, both of which expire on June 30, 2005? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. Yes.
When did they start? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: They started -- This is the last year of the three one-year renewals following a four-year contract. This is the end of seven years.
So the contract started in '98? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: '98.
7/1/98. It was a four-year, and then three one-year renewals? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Three one-year renewals. Okay. 1865 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 And give me that time line again. You put out the R.F.P. when? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I believe it was the end of November. The responses --
End of November of when? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Let's see. Last year. Last year. Hold on one second, please, if you don't mind. (Pause.) COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Off the top of my head, I want to say the -- November 22nd. I'm not sure of the exact date. It was the end of November 2004. The responses were due the end of January. We had a period of review of the proposals. And then at the beginning of --
How long was the review? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Approximately 1866 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 three weeks.
Okay. And when do you expect to decide? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We expect to make a recommendation to Council by the end of April.
Okay. Do you have any institutional information with regard to... And what do you expect the term to be? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It's likely to be four years, with three one-year renewals.
So basically a seven-year contract. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It could be. There's also an option for two years with two one-year renewals. Those are both alternatives. But it's more likely that we'd be looking at the four-year with three one-year renewals.
Say that again, the option? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: In the R.F.P., we had offered the... Not offered. We had 1867 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 asked for a pricing for two years with two one-year renewals as well. So, we had to evaluate both of those things. But the likely course of action will be four years with three one-year renewals.
Okay. Now, for the current contract, for the first four years, which were guaranteed -- And I'm assuming that was approved by City Council. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
-- was there a price guarantee for each year of the four years? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
And what about the prices in the three one-year renewal time periods? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
I didn't ask the question yet. Yes what? That those -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes, there was a price guarantee. I'm sorry. I thought that was the question.
Okay. And what 1868 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 was the starting price and what's our ending price? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Councilman, I don't have those numbers with me. I can get those to you quite easily. Maybe before we finish.
Were there automatic escalator clauses in any of the contracts? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The escalator -- The price was set, so it assumed a certain escalator. Let's say, for example, there was a three-and-a-half percent escalator. So, the price was set. If the initial price was $40, then the next year's price was three-and-a-half percent more on top of that. But that exact number was the number that was used. So if you carry that up $42 dollars, it was set at $42.
And has any analysis been done over now the seven years to determine whether or not the built-in escalators... I mean, was that based on 1869 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 average rate of inflation at the time, C.P.I.? I mean, how did we arrive at the automatic escalators? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The escalators are set, are part of the proposal by the vendors. They take in consideration C.P.I. fuel indexes, gasoline indexes.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Other potential costs that they may have.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: And they provide a price based upon that.
And what factors do we take into consideration in determining what proposal we'll accept? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We take in consideration the capacity to deliver or provide the services, permitting, pricing, logistics.
Now, how many companies responded? This was an R.F.P.? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: This was an R.F.P. to which five companies responded. 1870 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
And are all five being considered? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. Does it strike you as... Forget that. You started this process in November of '04 for a waste disposal contract that expires June 30, '05. That would seem not to leave a lot of time either for review by the department, and certainly as the Council President has mentioned, significantly less time for Council review. Why did the process only start in November of '04? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: As I mentioned to the Council President earlier, there is a representative of City Council in this review process. And they have been there from the time of the review of the contracts or negotiations. We attempted previously to seek innovation, in terms of technology, to look at a different type term from our vendors. It became clear to us that the pricing that we were receiving and the responses by the 1871 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 vendors two years ago, that we were not going to get a different type of technology use for this contract. With that, it means that we're simply going with the transfer operation that we have had in the past, inasmuch as we know the vendors that are in the community, that it was more straightforward than, say, some of our offerings in the past when we went looking for innovation. We put out a feeler for the innovation a couple years ago. And we got the responses that was not going to be possible, given the D.P. permitting and the available technology at the time.
Well, I appreciate all that. I guess my question is more narrowly focused on the November R.F.P., get them back in January, a three-week review by the department. You expect to have an ordinance 23 over to us when? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: By the end of April. 1872 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
End of April. So, in addition to everything else that we're working on -- And, I mean, we have a couple things that we might want to get done by either the end of May, like the city budget, or the end of June, the rest of that process. Somewhere in the midst of all that, I mean, we'll also take up this waste renewal, I guess waste disposal contract, rather. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why such a compact period of time. I mean, it's been clear... I mean, you've always known that the contract was going to expire in June of '05. So, I'm only raising the question with regard to why not start the process earlier. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think that we had attempted to have a different approach that -- and that failed. We did not get the response. And when I say "response," the type of pricing that we we're looking forward to. Once that --
Okay. 1873 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: -- did fail, we then had to kind of redress ourselves and go with our four-year contract term and put that back out.
Okay. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: So, we had to develop the R.F.P. and then move forward post haste which took us to November to get it done.
I understand. I'll come back to that area. Who are the five respondents? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: J.P. Mascaro, B.F.I., Waste Management, Republic, and American Reffuel.
Okay. That's just the name of the company? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yeah, that's the name of the company.
And what was the last one? 1874 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: American Reffuel.
American... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: American Reffuel, R-e-f-f-u-e-l
...f-u-e-l. American. Okay. What's the... I don't know if the buzzer thing is working today. I feel bad about taking advantage. But what are the requirements with regard to either minority or female participation on this contract? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: 35 percent in total.
Do all the respondents... Have they responded on that particular issue? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Okay. Okay. What's the anticipated cost of this contract? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The anticipated contracts will be upwards of $45 1875 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 million per year. And let me just clarify to you, Councilman, that 35 percent is on the hauling only.
Well, what else -- What are the other components? I mean, what else is left? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's the challenge. The disposal is a landfill. So, there are no other services with that.
Right. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: So, I just wanted to clarify that it's not over the entire contract. It's on the hauling.
Well, of the $45 million per year, how is that broken out between the hauling and the disposal? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I don't have that exact information here. I will get it for you post haste.
All right. Okay. All right. I'll come back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Okay. 1876 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Yeah. I'd like to follow up on that questioning by Councilman Nutter. Do you require any diversity of staffing of the major contractor? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Whatever -- Whatever the city requirements are, we will meet those. I'm not sure of staffing requirements.
Through the company, the company that's going to -- who will receive the bid, do they have to meet any requirement for the number of minorities and women on their staff? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Whatever the city requirements are, they would have to meet that. But I'm not sure exactly, Councilwoman. I can get that answer for you.
Okay. And so the 35 percent would be for hauling the trash to the dump sites, right? 1877 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: That's correct.
Okay. Have all of the vendors identified minority contractors. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. They have listed identified with M.B.E.C. subcontractors who would be certified, who need to be certified in order for them to receive an award.
M.B.E.C. has certified them? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: M.B.E.C. is responsible for certifying the subs.
And the company will actually do the work. Sometimes I understand they get certified and they identify the company that they want to deal with but actually the company does not do the work. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I am not aware of that one. I'm aware of a case where the vendor has had a challenge with the subcontractor, and they've replaced them with 1878 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 another M.B.E. or D.B.E.
Okay. Let me get to my favorite subject. Probably don't have an answer. What about my turning light at Adams Avenue and Rising Sun? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: A turning light?
We passed an ordinance last year. It seems that you all are ignoring the ordinance. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. It will be in before the end of spring.
Beg pardon? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It will be in before the end of spring.
I didn't hear you. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The end of spring. Before the end of spring it will be in. So, before June.
Going to put it up? 1879 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: (Nods head up and down.)
Now, you're giving me your word. You usually keep it. Dr. No, is that true? Dr. No, is that true? UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Yes.
The other thing is, you know, our other issue that we've always raised when you come and we've talked about, is the assisting homeowners with those driveways. I mean, when I go to community meetings, what are we doing about the driveways? And citizens are particularly concerned because the trash trucks travel on the driveways, and they believe that the city has some responsibility for helping them to repair those driveways. And I know the answer I'm going to get, but I have to put it on the record every time you come. Do you have a different answer this time? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No, I don't, Councilwoman. 1880 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Give me the answer. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Through our N.T.I. program, there has been a significant amount of work with regard to retaining walls. And the funding has been addressing the safety issue, along with retaining walls. So, there is -- there is no program to address driveways.
Okay. We'll follow... I'll come back to you on that at a later time. We do have some ideas about that which we'll share with you. We were to have the cleaning of Adams Avenue between Rising Sun and Crescentville take place. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. That's going to happen as well.
And also, what about the pilot program for Olney. Is that -- Was that ever implemented. We introduced.... UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: For the current, Councilwoman? 1881 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
The cleaning program, the pilot cleaning program. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: There is an area that's getting done. I don't know the exact boundary, so I don't want to say yes to Olney, but I'll get the...
No. But, we had extended boundaries. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
But we had extended it down to the Boulevard, over to... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
-- I believe, Front Street -- COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Extended it down to --
-- and over to 7th Street. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes. The extended areas is being done.
Not done? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The extended 1882 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 area is going to be done.
It's going to be done? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Because we have been talking with Pat Trinkle.
Yes. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I think Anthony Mercer. And my staff talked to Pat Trinkle as late as last week.
All right. Let me ask you a question. The young man who was over there in his wheelchair asked me about curb cuts. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mm-hmm.
Have you completed all of the curb cuts in the city for handicapped? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: I believe that all of the curbs should have curb cuts in them. If there's a location that someone has a concern about, we'd like to know that location so we can address that.
All right. I'll tell you. He mentioned 30th Street, the 1883 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 bridge at 30th Street. You might have somebody check it out. I think that's it. I mean, I, you know... We just -- We didn't get complaints about the cinders, but we did get complaints about the salt damaging the newly paved streets. So, you know, can't win them all. Thank you. I don't have any other questions. You're doing a fine job. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Thank you very much. We have a good team.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman O'Neill.
You're okay. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Good afternoon. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Good afternoon, sir.
Couple of quick 1884 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 questions, actually for a colleague of mine, about recycling. I understand that the recycling rates are up dramatically. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Recycling is up dramatically. We're presently receiving over $49 per ton for our paper, and we're paying only a little over $2 for our commingled.
Okay. And is the entire -- Where are we at with the entire city? Is the entire city on line yet? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The entire city has curb side recycling.
Entire city. With respects to flashers at schools, where are we at with that program? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: We have currently installed 189 school flashers. During calendar year 2004 we installed 25. We have 41 applications on file, and all 41 will be done by December of this year.
December of this year. Okay. All right. Let me get to the real deal. I 1885 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 notice in your testimony you don't reference the, quote unquote, mainstreaming or standardization of trash pickup. Is there a reason why that's not in the testimony? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No, there's no 7 reason.
Just an oversight? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. There's no particular reason it was excluded. This kind of hit on some of the points within our program. It certainly did not address all of them.
Don't you think that's a significant change? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Certainly, if I were a constituent in that area, I would consider it a significant change, going from twice per week collection of trash to once per week.
What's the size of that particular area geographically? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Geographically it's 25,000 households. 1886 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
So, 25,000 households... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: 25,000 households.
...the elimination of one day of service for 25,000 households. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: -- I'm 10 sorry. 11
It's not 12 referenced in your testimony. Is there -- I 13 mean, why is that? 14 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mmm. 15
I mean, I think, 16 you know, you have things that -- some things 17 in here that you reference that, you know -- 18 I mean, you talk about surveys, and which is 19 a good thing and that's all based on the 20 question that you asked. 21 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Mmm. 22
You talk about 23 that, but you don't talk about the 24 elimination of 25,000 households for a 25 sanitation pickup day. 1887 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: All right.
Did you think that I wasn't going to bring it up? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Because I know this is quite a serious issue. That is an '05 budget initiative, and I was referencing my '06 commentary here.
Hold it. Back up. It was an '05 budget initiative? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Yes.
Meaning that you anticipated doing this when we had our last budget hearings? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. It was not anticipated in our last budget hearing. I think it was mentioned when we came in a few weeks back -- I'm not sure which hearing that was -- for a five-year hearing that was referenced, but for the '06 it was not.
I'm sorry. I'm having difficulty hearing you. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: It was 1888 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 referenced in our '05 -- I'm sorry -- in our five-year plan commentary, but in our '06 we did not mention it.
So, in your '05 budget testimony, did you mention the fact that midstream you would be eliminating trash day? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: No. It was not anticipated at that point.
So, why are you doing it in midstream? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The transition was occurring in spring, as we try to catch the onslaught of... or the change of season where we can most impact behavior by our citizens. Standardizing the collection line has to go from twice a week to once a week, as the rest of the city, we think will provide some benefits. Certainly they are the savings, and arguably there's other benefits as well. But there's 550,000 households citywide, and of those -- 1889 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Now, let's just stick to the 25,000. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Okay.
You say you want to take advantage of the behavior of the citizens. What behavior patterns are in that... COMMISSIONER TOLSON: In springtime, in summertime, warmer weather, you have trash being set out in different ways. Sometimes we have a better opportunity with our educational activities to do it in the spring versus in the middle...
You put out trash differently in the winter than you do in the summer and the spring? COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Well, how you set it out, yes, does change. And our opportunity to address citizens for doing... We're doing door-to-door education activities.
No. What's the difference? Let's -- Let's -- What's the difference in trash placement? 1890 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 COMMISSIONER TOLSON: The quantities.
I mean, I usually use the same trash bags in the summer that I use in the winter. COMMISSIONER TOLSON: Surely.