Seeing none, I thank you all very much. And I just want you to know that we all appreciate the 1763 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 wonderful work you do. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Thank you.
Thank you. Fleet management will be next, please. Good afternoon.
I think it's afternoon. No. I wish it were. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
President Verna and distinguished members of City Council, I am James Muller, Fleet Manager for the City of Philadelphia. Here with me today is Bob Fox, my assistant administrative director, and... That's it. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony in support of the FY'06 operating budget request for the Office of Fleet Management. 2 million for the purchase of new vehicles. 7 million less than FY2005 estimated obligations. There are a variety of factors that contributed to the budgetary variances. Class 100 decreased by $1 million, mainly due to the reduction of employees. 11 Class 300 increased by $600,000 due to 12 escalating fuel prices. And Class 400 13 increased by $2 million for vehicle 14 acquisition. 15 The City of Philadelphia has a 16 diverse fleet, in terms of vehicle size 17 complexity and function, with an asset value 18 exceeding $248 million, including vehicles 19 supported by Water and Aviation. 20 The fleet represents a significant 21 investment of public funds. M. maintains an active fleet size of 6,000 vehicles, including 787 that are specialized vehicles. Availability averages 90 percent 1765 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 which means 5,400 vehicles are available each day, meeting most daily vehicle targets. We could not meet these targets without the continued dedication and commitment of the employees of the Office of Fleet Management. In April 2004, the city launched an aggressive and innovative fleet reduction project. The project's goal was to reduce the size of the fleet, avoiding millions of dollars in parking, maintenance, fuel, and vehicle parts costs. As of today, 329 underutilized vehicles are slated for relinquishment, facilitating a cost avoidance of $9 million during the next five years. In the future, rather than using city-owned vehicles for passenger transportation, many city employees will use convenient and economical transportation alternatives. Due to the balanced and innovative approach to fleet reduction, there have been no adverse impacts recorded to date, 1766 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 administrative or otherwise. The city has partnered with the Philadelphia-based automated vehicle sharing provider, Philly Car Share for vehicle sharing. S. is a non-profit organization dedicated to reduce the automobile dependency in Philadelphia. S. operates a rapidly growing fleet of primarily gas-electric hybrid sedans. Approximately 1,100 employees participated in this program. Vehicles can be obtained from Center City and 14 University City locations and can be rented 15 by the hour. 16 Automated vehicle sharing helps 17 decrease fleet size, reduce costs and improve utilization by enabling multiple drivers to easily use the same vehicle. Available technology enables reliability, secure an automatic 7-day, 24-hour access to vehicles [sic]. Automated scheduling and vehicle access systems process all administrative, scheduling, key management, usage tracking, 1767 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 and billing tasks. In FY'05 the automated vehicle sharing program has garnered tremendous attention across the country. At least 51 news sources have covered the story, including 46 newspapers, 6 unique articles, 4 television programs, and 1 radio broadcast. Additionally, Governing Magazine, the National Association of Fleet and Equipment, have covered Philadelphia's implementation of the program. M. to finance the purchase of certain public safety vehicles, through the Philadelphia Municipal Authority. Fleet has budged $820,000 in Class 200 to lease 41 vehicles, including trash trucks and concrete mixers, all of which are vital to the city services. A. A. P. 1768 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 process. 4 million for the Water Fund, and $219,515 for the Aviation Fund. M. estimates an annual reduction revenue to be $400,000 for the General, $160,000 for Water, and $20,000 for the Aviation Fund. M.
estimates annual revenues to be $300,000 for the General Fund, $120,000 for the Water Fund, and $20,000 for the Aviation Fund. M. E. master certification program. M. began to provide free training programs to help prepare technicians for this examination. To obtain this prestigious 1769 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 certification, automotive technicians must successfully complete an accredited course that teaches vehicle diagnostic skills. E. certification. L. driver's license. E. certified this year. M. 5 million. In FY'04 Fleet again secured a contract that fixed prices for fuel and guaranteed that the city will be able to purchase fuel at the lowest possible cost. According to the terms of the contract, the cost per gallon of fuel is set by Platts, the cost of fuel without a markup. The only additional cost is for 1770 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 transportation. As a result, the city expects to save approximately $250,000 this year on a commodity that has increased by nearly 40 percent over the last two years. This year the Office of the Director of Finance and Fleet Management worked in partnership to automate the department's payment process for vehicle parts. , which has the second highest volume of invoices in the city, has been transmitting invoice data for manual entry by the Finance Department. M. implemented a document management system that is now fully functional and consists of scanning, automated data capture and storage and retrieval of images on a local imaging system. This system will enable Fleet to reduce overtime expense in the accounts payable unit by 50 percent, saving approximately $40,000 during FY'05 and every year thereafter. The scanning system, which 1771 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 cost $100,000, will pay for itself in less than three years. Finally, within the next two years Fleet will be scanning all of its work orders and payroll sheets, and this will allow for the reduction of one full-time position. This concludes my testimony at this time, and I will respond to your questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much. You mention in your testimony that you Class 300 requirements increased by $600,000 due to escalating fuel prices. Can you explain why -3 of your detailed budget reflects a $2.7 million decrease in your Class 300 budget?
My name is Robert Fox, Administrative Director for Fleet Management.
Welcome, Mr. Fox. 1772 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
That was a mistake. The $600,000 is an increase over estimated obligations to $2.7 -- I mean, the $600,000 is an increase over the adopted budget. The $2.7 million decrease is when it is compared to the estimated obligations. That was a mistake on my part. I compared the estimated obligations in the one and the adopted budget for the other.
Okay. You mention on of your testimony, due to the balanced and innovative approach to fleet reduction, there have been no adverse impacts recorded to date, administrative or otherwise. Will you please explain what you mean by that statement? What does it mean?
-- through a series of meetings and calls with fleet liaisons in the departments. We have been monitoring whether or 1773 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 not the Fleet reduction has hurt their operations. And we've also been monitoring the use of Philly Car Share, and to date no 5 one has complained.
For the record, would you explain how Philly Car Share operates?
Yes, Madam. Robert Fox. Philly Car Share is a non-profit organization that makes vehicles available citywide. You can go on line or you can call them. You can reserve the car as soon as an hour before you need it. There are cars located in --
Who can people call? Do they call Fleet Management or do they call a non-profit --
They call Philly Car Share or they can go on to the computer and log in and reserve the car. They could then go to eight different garages throughout the city. And they'll have what they call a key fob that they will take with them. And the key fob is 1774 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 assigned to them from Philly Car Share. They will identify themselves to the parking garage. They will bring the vehicle down. The key fob will then open the door to the vehicle, and the key will be attached to the dashboard. They can then drive that vehicle for as long as they have reserved it, and then return it, and Philly Car Share will charge them for the hours that they utilize it.
Thank you. What is the impact to the fleet if we do not approve the lease?
President Verna, we believe that it would be devastating, especially with the compactors. What normally happens, because the money is tough, we normally buy police and fire equipment, and the other departments have for years and years get less and less. And it's getting to a point now we're starting to hurt with compactors. We're running, like, 28 percent down right on compactors every day. 1775 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 So, some of that adverse equipment is affected because we can't buy it. And we need to buy the police and fire equipment first.
May I ask why you haven't gone to the productivity bank for the funding of the vehicles?
Well, the problem was being able to repay it back. We don't have that much money. See, we figure with the $820,000 we could afford that, with our budget, and get a lot of vehicles and pay it off in time.
Well, you're going to have to pay it back anyway.
Yeah. It's pay me now or pay me later. You know, that's the way it works.
Well, what is the comparison in costs, I'd be curious to know, between using the productivity bank and the direction that you want to go?
Council President, we did never -- we have never thought to utilize the 1776 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 productivity bank for something that was this expensive. Maybe we should have.
Well, on you're estimating to spend $820,000 in FY'05 in vehicle lease payments. Since we haven't even approved the ordinance needed to lease them, and there are only three months left in the year, how can you possibly expect to spend this money? That's a lot of money, $820,000.
Actually, Councilwoman, it would be considerably more than that. If Council was to approve the bill, we would be purchasing as much as $6 million worth of vehicles. And that $6 million worth of vehicles, if Council would approve it in April or in early May, the Procurement Department has citywide contracts already available that we could purchase against.
The $820,000 would be for lease payment, but I thought you meant the 1777 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 total amount of vehicles that we would be purchasing.
We would make one lease payment before June 30th. We would only have to make the payment once a year.
Even though there are only three months left to this year, we would still pay $820,000 in lease payment. Does that make sense?
Councilwoman, the way you described it there, no, it does not. But we had hoped, when we introduced it last year 1778 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 and described what we were doing, we had hoped to be able to have --
Well, I don't recall us getting an ordinance last year on this.
No, but we put it in our budget last year, and explained what we were going to try to do. But unfortunately, there's been a lot of controversy as to... and consternation as to whether or not we should do it at all.
I know. And I'm fully aware that of that, believe me. On -26, you're requesting $25,000 for Public Financial Management. What services do they provide?
Public Financial Management was the corporation that we chose to help us with our fleet reduction. And we are going to continue fleet reduction. We're not stopping it just because we finished one program. There still are, we believe, plenty of vehicles that are underutilized. And they 1779 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 assist us in that process.
Very well. I have a couple other questions, but I see that Council members would like to be recognized. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, gentlemen. In recent years during budget testimony I've always been encouraged by the department's commitment to your internship and apprenticeship programs because it's one of the very unique ways that young people get a chance to get in the pipeline and ultimately acquire employment with the City of Philadelphia in that particular department. I've learned recently that from Ann Cohen, President of Local 1637, that regrettably this year both the automotive internship and the apprenticeship program will be eliminated. 1780 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 So, my question is, have they both -- have both programs indeed been discontinued?
For this year they have been. But just to let you know, some of the best technicians at the body shop at 11th and Reed were through this program. But according to cutbacks we had to, you know, cut the program this year.
How much will you save through those reductions or through those -- through the discontinuation of those programs?
Could you please? As quickly as you can, because that could and should be a part of Council's budget deliberations.
So, if we could get that, that would be extremely helpful. How many employees have been hired that had prior history through the high 1781 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 school? And can you provide that kind of information? Maybe over the past four or five years, as part of the material you'll be forwarding to the Chair?
Okay. In both of those programs, both the internship and the apprenticeship program, the dollar amount that you'll be saving and the number of employees that have been hired through both of those programs. That is it.
The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Thank you, Madam President, and good morning, gentlemen.
How you doing? COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: In your testimony you indicate that you will be spending $4.2 million for the purchase of new vehicles. 1782 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 What portion of the $4.2 million will go towards the purchase of cars that are non-emergency vehicles, not police vehicles, not sanitation vehicles, just cars in general? Council...
None is expected. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: None. Well, that's good. I have -- Are any -- Do we have any hybrid cars in our fleet yet?
We have five. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Are there plans to purchase more? Are they working out?
We're looking. We're looking. Right now we're trying to get a demo from Ford for the Ford Escape hybrid, give it to the Police Department and let them drive it and see. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: For a number of years I've always asked this question. And I'll pose it again. I've never gotten an answer. 1783 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 I was always wondering whether there would be a cost savings to the city for certain individuals, elected officials as an example, Council members, the Mayor, City Controller. We have access to city vehicles, if it would be less expensive if those elected officials were given a stipend, similar to what the state legislature and the senators do throughout, and lease their own car, pay for their own gas, pay for general maintenance, all those things, including insurance. I guess -- I don't know if any of us have been -- I don't even have a car. I gave my car up months ago. I don't even have a city car any more. But for those of us who still do, from time to time you may get in an accident. There's a claim. We're self-insured, but it's a cost to the taxpayers. Has any analysis ever been done? And again I'm not faulting you here. You're new at the helm, compared to what the number of people there prior to you. I've been 1784 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 asking this for probably four or five years. Has any analysis ever been done, to see if that makes more sense economically?
Right. We -- The Managing Director had asked us for some cost-saving measures, and we did look at privatizing City Council cars and Commissioners' cars. We have some information back at the office, that we could share it with you, if that's what you're looking for. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah. I'm only curious if it does save money. And I don't know what the magic number is. I think the state house people get $500 a month. It's a political issue for us.
Yes. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: I mean, it would become a highly volatile issue. But I think if we can explain that there actually -- if there is a savings and it's significant, it may make sense to do that. And Council as a whole may decide, if that's the way they might want to go. I'm 1785 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 not saying they will. I'm just... It's dollars and cents, again.
Right. We had a lease company come in. I can't remember the lease company. And we had asked them. And they were going to look and see if City Council people or Commissioners could go pick out their own car, and drive it and then maintain it, you know, pay for the service and all. And I've got that information back at the office. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: And lease it through Fleet Management?
Well, the city would lease it. You would have your choice to pick out which vehicle you would like to drive. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Yeah, but it's still costing the taxpayers --
It will be costing money, right. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: -- for the cost of the lease.
But that was another 1786 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 avenue that we looked at. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Okay.
For us to lease the vehicles for Council people. And the other was to give Council people a stipend, and let them purchase their own vehicle, and give them a stipend to maintain and fuel the vehicle. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Do all of the departments that have access to Fleet Management vehicles, are they responsible for parking violations within their department?
Yes, they are. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: So, Fleet Management doesn't pick up any of those parking violation funds?
No, sir. What normally happens is, when I get information from the Parking Authority, I send a letter, draft a letter, and send to it the Commissioner, to his attention, and they process it. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: How many cars -- I'm sorry. I didn't mean to 1787 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 interrupt you. How many vehicles are assigned to the courts? Is that part of the Fleet Management inventory?
Yes. They have a lot of maintenance vehicles for the courts. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: Maintenance vehicles?
They do their own maintenance. Vans, pick-ups. COUNCILMAN DiCICCO: If you can give me... If it's possible to give me a cost breakout of what those 50 or so vehicles are costing us in terms of acquisition, maintenance, a general number. I'm curious to know. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
First of all, I'd like to point out that it's good to see an organization that's motivated on their own to adopt cost-saving techniques like the accounts payable invoice scanning. It's not like information -- As a matter of fact, from what I recollect, you guys got to push a little bit to even get this. And it should be the opposite way, around where the information technology people should be coming to you. But I know you pushed very hard. So, it's good to see that you're staying current and using some of the modern techniques to contain costs. Also, I want to point out the fact that it's also good to see the fact that you've diversified the fleet, when it comes to the police vehicles, where you introduce the front wheel drive, lest cost Chevrolet Impala that runs... I think you get a lot more patrol miles per gallon of fuel. It's 1789 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 front wheel drive. It goes better in the snow. So, I think that was great to suggest that to the Police Department. And from what I understand, it's a well received vehicle. It's not like you're just eliminating the Crown Vic. Am I correct?
You saved a significant amount of money on the cost of the vehicle, and its operation expenses have reduced. Could you comment on that?
That's correct. The Chevy Impala cost us $5,700 less per vehicle. It's a front-wheel drive vehicle. It's a V-6, not a V-8, which we have in the Crown Victorias. Not only -- I know it's a smaller vehicle, and some police officers don't like it; but, you know, it's the best we can do. And so far the Chevy seems to be doing a great job for us. But that's the way it is.
Well, that's good. We have the bigger one for the bigger officers, and then we can use the smaller one 1790 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 for the smaller officers. Makes sense.
The other issue that I have is that I understand that we're in need of a new fire boat. Could you bring us current on where we are with that? Because with all the growth along the river, I understand we have two very old but well maintained fire boats.
We have Homeland Security money. And what I'll do is, I'd like to bring up Tim Lynch, my Deputy Commissioner for Operations to answer that question for you, since he's been handling this issue.
Because I wouldn't want to see us put off too long -- with rapid growth along the river, put off too long the engineering and the spec process. So, I'd love to hear where we are with that. 1791 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Hi, Mr. Lynch.
Timothy Lynch, Deputy Fleet Manager. We've been working for the past four years to build a boat spec, and we finally found the money through Homeland Securities, the Emergency Operations Center, Mike Nucci. There was originally $2 million from the Pennsylvania Regional Grant. When we had the boat price recalculated to today's figures, we needed some more money. Mike was able to find those numbers. We are now having the specification updated to the 2005 specifications. And my guess is that probably before June we'll have it back into the state's hands to be bid. And the boat is approximately 66 feet and has the capabilities of going 28 knots. We'll have a medical triage center on the boat that can be handled, you know, for the Fire Department, to the best of their ability, until they can transport to land.
The current boats are quite old; am I right? 1792 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Well, if you looked at it, it looks good. But again, its capabilities, I understand, leave a lot to be desired. So, based on this June date, when do you think... Is it a couple years out before we'd actually see the boat?
Well, again, I appreciate you have that on the radar, too. That's good to hear, because it's growing by the minute down there. And I talked to a few people that have businesses and also warehousing along there, that they are concerned, because their insurance providers are concerned, about what kind of coverage the Philadelphia Fire Department has along the river. And one of the issues was the fact that our fire boats are on the -- I don't want to say on our last leg, but close to it. 1793 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Exactly. Well, again, congratulations. You guys do a great job. You keep the fleet running even with fewer people. And you should be congratulated for that.
Thank you. I'd like to add one other thing, Councilman Rizzo. I'd like to thank M.O.I.S. for their assistance in our imaging system. They helped us out tremendously to get it through. And as you said, you know, technology; a lot of people are afraid of it. But when you're in budget cuts you have no 18 other choice.
That's great. Thank you. Thank you all for the good work you do.
Thank you, Madam President. 1794 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 I believe in earlier discussions we were told that there would be no significant monetary impact. We wanted to verify that. And using this program, that it would be the cost -- give us a cost savings, and also ask you where they do this in other cities, and what their results have been.
Okay. Our understanding is, because I heard the President asking you about the costs. And my understanding is that we were told this would be cost effective or have no real impact. Is that true?
Have they done this in other places, and have they had cost savings? Can you name a few?
Boston, New York. 1795 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Every city in America. Baltimore is doing it.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
Public utilities have been doing this leasing program for 30 years now. And I scratch my head sometimes wondering why we haven't done that. And maybe it's the difference between the government and the private sector. But I think if it's good enough for P.P. & L. and P.E.C.O. and the rest, it should be something we consider. I may not understand all the ins and outs of it, but that's one of the problems I think we have in government. We ought to do more what the private sector does, and we might not be fighting for every dime that we need to run some of these departments. 1796 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Thanks. Thanks, Madam President.
You're welcome. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee?
Excuse me. I have one comment on... You had asked earlier about the productivity bank.
And the Budget Director has told me that it's not an appropriate use of the funds.
In her note she said efficiency studies were technology such as automation.
I don't think you should be talking for her. If she's here, she ought to come forward and explain why. 1797 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Diane Reed, Budget Director. The question is why we would not purchase or lease vehicles from the productivity bank. The productivity bank is not that big a fund. It was set up for departments to apply for efficiency funding to, for example, purchase computer software that would allow them to automate processes that are currently manually done.
Well, we just heard from Public Property that they were able to receive $200,000 from the productivity bank for assessors.
That money is going to be repaid. That will be captured in the sale price. It will be a direct payback.
The listing of all of the 1798 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 loans does appear in the quarterly City Manager's report.
And how much was done for revenue; do you recall?
Well, I think there's some disagreements, as far as we're concerned.
Well, the Fleet Office can send over an application to be considered by the board of the productivity bank, and... But I'm just saying, I doubt that it would be an appropriate expenditure. We can't, you know, fund the fleet out of this little fund.
Given all the projects that we have in the pipeline, I think it's only got about $15 million.
Can you 1799 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 give us a rough estimate?
I think the fund was about $30 million at the beginning of the year.
That's a small fund. That is a small fund. Okay. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. A quick follow-up, only for the subsequent trigger steps on this side of the table with Council colleagues. How soon do you think you may be able to provide the information requested regarding the apprenticeship programs?
As soon as I get back to the office this afternoon. Would that be okay?
I have my H.R. director, Carla Hill, will get that for you. 1800 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
Thank you. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee? (No response.)
Thank you. We will now hear from the Historical Commission.
Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you. I am Richard Tyler, Historic Preservation Officer for the Philadelphia Historical Commission. The proposed budget for fiscal year 2006 requests $316,325. With this budget, the commission can reasonably expect to 1801 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 maintain its present levels of service of permanent review under the Historic Preservation Ordinance, and the many commercial revitalization ordinances, and also in the conduct of the federally-mandated historic resource assessments. I should be pleased to attempt to answer any questions members of Council may have. Thank you.
Thank you. Dr. Tyler, I certainly want to say congratulations. Can you hear me?
Congratulations on a well earned and well deserved upcoming retirement.
You have been a tremendous asset to this city. And I can't imagine anybody who's going to be able to fill your shoes. You have been terrific. I think I may have just one question, if you'll bear with me. I have one question. On -4 of your detail, it 1802 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 reflects a reduction of $37,470. And I believe that's for eliminating a position.
What position has been eliminated, and will this reduction impact your operation?
the detail. You probably don't need it. There's -- It reflects a reduction of $37,470. I believe that's for elimination of one position.
We will continue to have the six positions we now have. The explanation for that is perhaps there is no 18 signing bonus this year. Most staff are members of A.F.S.C.M.E. And also, with my leaving there will be a salary savings.
There will be a salary what? I believe that's -- Is that for one position? 1803 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05
I'm rather caught short. I'm not aware of a reduction going into an eliminated position.
Well, as you see, the budget detail does reflect that.
All right. Would you please check into it and communicate with us, please?
Would you check into it and communicate with us. You said you didn't know about this.
This will be your last budget hearing; will it not?
Of June. That soon. Well, again, I certainly want to 1804 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 congratulate you and wish you the very, very best.
Thank you. Are there questions? Oh, yes, there are. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one question, Dr. Tyler. And I echo the comments of the Council President with regard to your service. I have enjoyed working with you and knowing you over many, many years. What I wanted to find out is, what is the current status of these pending Historic Preservation District designations for both Overbrook Farms and East Falls?
To be realistic, given the demands on the staff as it now exists, you'll notice in the full written testimony, there was an increase of 13 percent in the number of building permits we processed last year. 1805 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 We're now doing about percent of what L & I does, building permits. I don't see how, with the present staffing, we can take on more districts.
Well, I can 7 appreciate that. 8 But if you could maybe give me a 9 little more information with regard to -- I 10 mean, what is the cost of reviewing the applications and performing the designation process? I mean, what's the actual cost of...
Of processing one of these historic preservation districts?
Well, to us what's involved is the notice to owners and that -- the cost of that would vary, depending upon the number. It's an extensive notice requirement. Holding the hearings. Where the real difficulty comes in, I think, in terms of staffing, is the processing of building permits subsequent to the creation of the 1806 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 district. Some only take two or three minutes. Consider something like the Naval Home. For a few permits, literally weeks of staff time were spent. I can't quantify it any better than that for you.
But those are building permits as a result of people deciding to upgrade their property or do something to their property; is that correct?
Well, whenever they do any work, it requires a permit to come to us.
About 85 percent of them are processed by the staff over the counter.
Right. So I'm just trying to understand. What would you estimate the cost to be for the review process for the historic district application 1807 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 itself? I mean, just because I don't know. I mean, how involved is this?
What's involved is... The first step is fairly easy. Staff would read the nomination, see if it is complete and correct. That's not extensive. Where we get into a lot of time is, a part of the nomination is an evaluative inventory property by property, descriptive and evaluative of every property within the district. Commonly, you know, somebody prepares a nomination. We don't. But that inventory is so important to us, in terms of processing the permits of what was the existing condition at the time of designation, that we go out and actually confirm in the street every entry. A small district such as the one proposed in East Falls, only 200 properties...
...that could be done in a few days, I would think. 1808 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 Old City, which had about 800 properties, and we had a very poor nomination submitted, in terms of that, it took weeks...
...to get that inventory into shape to submit to the commission. Then there are the hearings.
Both committee and commission. Committee usually holds -- The Committee on Historic Designation -- about three hearings. The commission would hold a minimum of three. Our practice has always been at least one hearing would be held in the community in the evening to be assured that everyone gets an opportunity to be heard. And then the notice afterwards and the photography of it all. I guess 20,000, 30,000, depending upon the magnitude of the district.
I understand. I mean, and lastly, I guess I would 1809 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 just say that, only speaking for those two areas, I mean, it seems that a significant amount of work has been done by the residents in those communities for both of those proposals. Obviously the residents, you know, care very deeply about their community. They have done the research. They want to preserve the historical nature of those neighborhoods. And it would just, I think, be a tragedy to have all of that work done by, you know, our residents to now get to the point where they cannot move forward because of, at least at the moment, a temporary inability to literally process an application. And it seems that it just frustrates the efforts of so many who care very deeply about their communities. And if you're saying that, I mean, it is purely a financial issue, then I guess it's something for this Council to take a look at. But I think it certainly, you know, frustrates the good efforts of people who are 1810 Whole - Operating Budget - 3/29/05 trying to do the right thing.