Is the22 goal. Sure.23 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: But24 the second from the bottom, Northeast25 183 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 biomethane cogeneration project, the $152 million, that's the one where we are3 going to try to get most of our4 electricity from our own sludge to power5 most of that Northeast -- that large6 Northeast Water Pollution Control Plant.7 And the payoff for that is probably about8 five years, I believe.9 Now, here comes the10 interesting, more interesting, part of11 the presentation, Pennvest and green12 infrastructure. The way the Department13 thinks about the green infrastructure is,14 how is this going to help us with our15 combined sewer overflow program and16 integrated watershed management and17 handling of storm water in general, and18 these are the topics that we are19 approaching this with.20 As I had said in my earlier21 testimony, in February we submitted five22 applications for grants or loans. Four23 got approved. And out of 241 million, we24 received about 215 million. Of that 21525 184 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 million, 30 million is for green2 infrastructure projects. These are3 low-interest loans. Unfortunately, we4 have to pay them back.5 Next slide we're kind of6 showing -- this next slide kind of in a7 nutshell shows you the improvement in the8 environment with natural versus urban9 storm water drainage. And I think I'm10 going to have Joanne Dahme, who is head11 of our Public Affairs group and late of12 the Watersheds group, kind of go through13 these slides, because she knows these14 very well.15
17 So I think you have all seen18 some of these before. We talk about the19 types of sewer systems we have in the20 City. Essentially we have combined21 sewers where we are looking to address22 overflows into our streams and separate23 sewer systems. For both these systems,24 in dry weather they're working well. The25 185 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 wastewater from homes and businesses go2 to our sanitary facilities through a3 wastewater treatment plant. 7 When it's raining is when we8 actually have some problems with these9 systems, and that's what some of these10 green infrastructure programs and our11 other capital projects are looking to12 mitigate. So essentially when it rains,13 we have rainwater getting to our combined14 sewer systems and we have an overflow15 that occurs at our rivers and streams,16 because the systems can't hold the amount17 of volume that's coming over the storm18 water. But our separate sewer areas also19 have some challenges too, because storm20 water by itself is not clean, and when it21 runs off across streets and across22 buildings, it carries pollution with it,23 and also a pollution that is not always24 as recognized as the volume, the amount25 186 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 of storm water that's coming through2 these pipes directly into our rivers and3 streams. 5 So certainly our goal is to6 control overflows to our rivers and7 streams, and essentially this is what you8 may see if you're walking along a creek9 or a river. You see an outfall pipe, and10 this is where these combined sewer11 overflows or the tainted storm water12 comes out of these pipes, and this is13 what we're looking to mitigate. 15 The Commissioner had mentioned a little16 earlier that we take a very regional17 integrated watershed management approach,18 because we're downstream in the City of19 all our rivers and stream systems. 24 So how we're looking to address25 187 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 this is through a combined approach. We2 have traditional infrastructure, which3 includes what we call sort of the gray,4 the pipes, the undergrounds storage5 tanks, the tunnels. 9 So we look to do -- the Water10 Department's approach is going to be11 through a mixed approach. 25 188 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 Our goal for all of these2 projects is to manage the first one inch3 of storm water as it hits these parcels,4 and we'll be doing this through a number5 of ways. 15 One of the ways we are reaching16 out to the public are through these model17 neighborhood programs that we're working18 on. We recognize this as a new way for19 the City to go out and capture and manage20 storm water. So essentially we want to21 make sure that residents are on board and22 they sort of like the greening approaches23 that we're talking about. So we have a24 number of great partners, which include25 189 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 11 Essentially, they're helping us to12 recruit neighbors who want us to come and13 green their street. 16 This is an example of what a17 green street can look like. This is18 before it's green. This is Dickinson19 Street in South Philadelphia. And so we20 take a street like Dickinson Street and21 essentially we take a look out and see22 how we can retrofit it or redo it so that23 when it rains, that rainwater is being24 captured through vegetated practices, but25 190 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 there is often also an underground2 infrastructure component to that. But3 the greening approach, besides capturing4 the storm water in ways that keep it out5 of our sewer system at least during the6 time of the storm event, also provides a7 number of other potential benefits. When8 you look at a street like this, there9 were no trees, and now there's shading,10 so the temperatures in the summer are11 cooler on their block. 14 There's air quality, air benefits like15 that. So a lot of additional benefits in16 addition to the screening.
19 So just a few examples, and20 I'll do these really fast. 24 Councilman, you keep talking25 191 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 about rain gardens. 3 Essentially, it takes a lot of the roof4 runoff from the school, infiltrates it5 back into the soil, keeps it out of the6 combined sewer system and provides a7 great outdoor classroom for the children8 who go to the school. 10 In the lower pictures, the kids11 are actually installing the green12 infrastructure. This is a project we13 worked on with the Councilwoman, Mill14 Creek Recreation Center. It was one of15 our -- it is the City's first porous16 asphalt basketball court, and17 essentially -- and it's been there for18 about four years now, and essentially19 when it rains on this court, it's a20 porous asphalt, it drains into that21 asphalt and there's an underground basin22 beneath. So it handles a lot of the23 runoff in the area, holds it during a24 storm, allows it to infiltrate. And the25 192 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 4 This is Cliveden Park, which is5 in Germantown. This was an example of a6 great partnership again with the7 Recreation Department. We took street8 runoff from both blocks on both perimeter9 blocks adjoining this park and10 essentially disconnected the storm11 drains, took it right into this park,12 created like a step-pool system so the13 rainwater runs down into a rain garden in14 the park. 16 This last one is the Waterview17 Recreation Center, which is in18 Germantown, something very similar. So19 what you see is tree trenches. We have20 storm drains on the street. The storm21 drains connect to this porous concrete22 that's along the sidewalks of the23 recreation center. There's an24 underground basin, also feeds the trees25 193 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 14 Our challenge is, we get a15 certain amount of money, we have capital16 dollars and we have operations and17 maintenance dollars that go into the18 assets that we create from this. We19 don't have the kind of funding to provide20 for actually putting people through21 training for these green economy jobs,22 nor for sustaining that, especially if23 these practices are done in private24 property. But we would love to work with25 194 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 you to sort of explore the ways we can do2 this. And I know we talked about the3 Energy Coordinating Agency had received4 about a million dollars in federal5 funding to do something very similar,6 weatherization on private home7 properties, on homes. 10 We talk about rain barrel11 installation, training to do that,12 helping properties make sure that they're13 maintained properly, rain gardens. We're14 looking at all sorts of options on15 residential properties, even something16 like the replacement of laterals, which17 people mention time and time again. We18 don't have the wherewithal or the ability19 to do that, but if there's stimulus20 funding to really get people out there to21 provide that asset or that assistance to22 private property owners, that would be23 fantastic. 25 195 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 So we did talk a little bit2 about the defective lateral program. We3 have these cross connections that we're4 working in sections of the City and our5 separate storm water areas. That's a6 huge problem, and residents, as we7 mentioned, don't often know that it's8 happening. This is an example of a cross9 connection. 16
Well, I want17 to say a couple of things. One, I told18 people in the early part of this hearing19 that when I had my initial conversation20 with the Water Department, that you were21 enthusiastic. This was my proof that22 enthusiastic --23
We are24 enthusiastic.25 196 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591
Absolutely.2 And one of the things that comes to beg a3 question, if we are fortunate enough to4 get a second round of stimulus dollars --5 and there is some thought that that may6 happen for Philadelphia, because unlike7 other municipalities, we have a higher8 percentage of shovel-ready projects to9 go. What I'd like us to do as a10 follow-up to these hearings is give some11 thought as to where and how we can apply12 those dollars and in what way to generate13 the maximum amount of economic14 development, both for small business but15 ultimately for people to be employed. So16 if we can do that in a way that is17 thoughtful, that allows us to be both18 Roman and Greek, to build the aqueducts19 that we need to keep the system going,20 but also be green enough so that there's21 some aesthetic value to it as well.22 One question that I'd like you23 to answer specifically, what's the24 average cost of a rain garden to install?25 197 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591
We've done a few,2 and these are larger rain gardens. So3 there was about $2,000 for one at two4 local schools. These are gardens that5 are much larger. We do have a contract6 out right now, a consultant who is7 working with us on creating just what8 you're asking for, like looking at, as an9 example, a twin, residential twin, which10 doesn't have such a huge space, but may11 be able to create a garden that's like12 ten foot wide by ten foot long, what13 would be the cost of that. So we're14 aiming to make it very affordable,15 between $2,000 to $3,000.16 A lot of that is involved with17 the plant material. It's getting the18 vegetation, the native plants in order to19 have a landscaper doing the excavation20 and the planting materials that are21 involved, but not real challenging, not22 really difficult to implement. And the23 more -- if you can sort of ramp up the24 program so that you're doing many, many25 198 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 rain gardens, the cost could2 substantially come down.3
So a low-end4 rain garden can be as little as?5 Complete the sentence for me. $2,000?6
And that's probably7 still a little expensive. I mean, I8 think the most expense is in the native9 vegetation that we're looking at. I10 mean, essentially it's taking out an area11 for a green economy job, somebody would12 be trained to sort of recognize drainage13 patterns, looking at a house, looking at14 the downspouts, where is the water15 running naturally, looking at the grade16 of the property, picking the low spot on17 of the property to dig the rain garden,18 making sure it's about six to eight19 inches, depending on how much volume it's20 going to be handling. The goal for the21 rain garden is essentially to allow the22 water to sort of hold and then infiltrate23 over 24, maybe 72-hour period just to24 make sure we don't have problems with25 199 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 insects and that sort of thing, and2 manning the soil a little bit so that the3 infiltration works really well, that the4 plants can thrive and picking out the5 right vegetation.6 So it's not really complex.7 It's just a matter of being taught to8 have the right skills to go along with9 that job.10
So you said11 the Volkswagen of rain gardens is 2,000.12 Give me the Cadillac of rain gardens.13 What does that cost?14
I'm going to see if15 Chris Crock is in the room with us. He16 might know the Cadillac.17 It's certainly --18
It is very site21 specific. It depends on how big it is.22 And I'm trying to think. The ones that23 we have worked with like partners in24 Montgomery County, they installed a rain25 200 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 garden that was probably $5,000. That2 was the highest that we heard, and it was3 essentially treating about a quarter4 acre. So it was a large site.5
So in your6 estimate, in the next year, in the next7 five years, how many rain gardens should8 we see around the City of Philadelphia or9 retention basins?10
I think it's going11 to take us a little bit of time to ramp12 up. Here's where we are with like the13 smaller neighborhood project: Penn14 Future, who is our partner in this, they15 are joining with us because we're looking16 to create this design and say, Okay, we17 have three different types of residential18 properties, we'll have three different19 size typical rain garden sizes. Their20 goal is to go with us to the William Penn21 Foundation and say, Can we get some22 funding to implement these rain gardens.23 They're already starting to24 collect a list of people who would love25 201 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 to have something like this with them.2 We need to sort of have a sense of how3 much funding do we have, because we don't4 have -- the Water Department doesn't have5 the funding to do this work, because we6 can't make those improvements on private7 property. So we're looking sort of for8 the outside funder.9 We're creating the design.10 We'll create sort of the technical11 resources. We're hoping that William12 Penn or some other foundation joining us13 with Penn Future will be able to provide14 some seed money. So if we got $200,000,15 could we do 500 rain gardens throughout16 the City. That's sort of where we're17 looking right now. We're still very18 early in the process.19
So if I'm a20 neighborhood person and I want a rain21 garden, there will be a model for me. If22 I am a bigger, more independent single23 house, there'll be a design for me?24
What about2 the commercial component of it? Are we3 drafting -- based on your need for plans4 for rainwater runoff, will there be5 designs that they can draw from, so,6 therefore, a private --7 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: We8 certainly have designs that they can draw9 from, but they will already have an10 economic signal when we implement the11 parcel-based storm water charge for the12 large customers, and they will understand13 that they can greatly reduce their storm14 water bill by adopting some of these15 methodologies and keeping the storm water16 out of our system, and by doing so, we17 will be able to offer them credits to18 acknowledge those changes that they've19 made to their parcel.20
Will that21 also apply to homeowners? Will there be22 incentives for them to invest in rain23 gardens since they're doing their part24 to --25 203 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: At2 this point, we have not gotten that far.3
But4 something in the future?5 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: It's6 certainly something we can think about in7 the future. It certainly pops up, but8 administratively it may be a little bit9 difficult at this point in time. We're10 going to -- we certainly encourage folks11 to do what they can, but at this point in12 time, we cannot offer incentives.13
Fair enough.14 Sometimes the questions get an honest15 answer. That's okay.16 Finally -- and I'm going to let17 my colleagues if they have any questions18 for you, but one last question for19 myself. Can you describe the Rate20 Stabilization Fund a little bit? That21 was one of the last issues that was22 brought up.23 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes.24
And one25 204 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 more, what happens in cases of disputes2 on billing, what that process is for3 consumer redress.4 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Sure.5 The billing, again, is a Revenue6 Department function, but we realize that7 this has to be improved to some extent.8 I think the biggest single effort from my9 vantage point is, we have to be able to10 get those customers who are calling and11 answer those calls quickly, and I don't12 think right now the setup is quite right13 for that. A lot of calls come in through14 3-1-1 obviously now, and that's operating15 the way it should, but there may not be16 enough fire power in the system that's17 being used at the Bureau to answer phones18 quickly. That may have to be beefed up.19
Has there20 been any time motion analysis of from the21 time it takes a call to the time of22 response? Do you do that kind of --23 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: There24 has been in the past. I have not seen25 205 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 anything of that nature for a few years2 now. But I think they have a pretty good3 idea of how many calls are missed, and4 what we are learning is that sometimes5 people aren't even getting in the cue.6 So those may be additional folks who7 are -- if they can get their question8 answered the first time, then they don't9 have to redial and call again and again,10 and that may be -- it's one of those11 catch 22 problems. If you don't solve it12 early, it just feeds on itself, because13 people have to call back over and over14 again.15
Because16 actually the consumer that gave testimony17 earlier, who is one of my constituents,18 actually if you look at holistically how19 you guys responded to that, it was -- and20 I observed the process -- it was pretty21 good. It's the one that gets away that22 kind of haunts you that had a bad23 experience that we need to improve upon,24 because then it kind of slants the public25 206 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 perception of what the Department is2 doing, and I know, quite frankly, that3 you were trying to be as responsive as4 humanly possible.5 So we need to do a time motion6 analysis of what those times are. As we7 start to look at it as a result of these8 hearings what some of the follow-up steps9 are, how can we be more efficient in our10 greening, what opportunities present11 themselves through a reduction of12 rainwater runoff by way of an economic13 development stimulus for neighborhoods14 and the greening of neighborhoods, also15 some efficiencies by way of the mechanics16 of how we deliver our service and17 evaluating them in a real sense of what18 it takes, how long it takes to get a19 response to an inquiry, both from a leak20 to a customer billing dispute. So these21 are hard pieces of data that we need to22 kind of research and then hold ourselves23 accountable for. And I said it in the24 beginning. I'll say it again. We're a25 207 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 good utility. We can become a better2 utility by this kind of analysis. And so3 why don't we -- do we have any questions?4
Thank8 you, Mr. Chairman.9 Just one question, and this may10 have been asked. As I said, I was out11 for a little while. But on the billing12 issue -- and I know that's Water Revenue,13 but when it comes to the meters, I14 remember years ago in my previous life15 with Councilman Cohen, one of the16 complaints always used to be, My meter is17 not working right, the meter is wrong.18 Since it's been the new system, the19 automatic meter reading, I generally get20 the feeling that there's a lot less of21 those kind of complaints. Am I right?22 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER:23 You're correct. I mean, I shudder to24 think how many calls, additional calls,25 208 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 there would be if there were still meter2 disputes. In the old days we got on3 average one actual read for every ten4 months of -- you'd have nine out of ten5 would be estimated reads. And let's face6 it, they're estimates and they're not7 always right, and folks complain.8
Well,9 sometimes those meters didn't always work10 properly, too. I mean --11 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: We do12 test them and we do change them out of13 regular intervals, and now with the use14 of AMR, we get readings if there's --15 that lead us to believe there may be a16 meter problem.17
You can18 pick up the problem quicker.19 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: If20 there's no registration for a month or21 two and maybe very simple answer, maybe22 somebody is on vacation or has a second23 home somewhere else, but for the most24 part, it triggers a response a little25 209 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 sooner rather than later.2
And is3 there still a lot of complaints about the4 reading just being wrong? I mean, do you5 get much of that at all?6 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: To7 tell you the truth, Councilman, I get8 calls in my office as well, and that's9 about my best gauge. And, of course, I10 get calls from some Council folks who11 have a constituent that's had a problem,12 but that doesn't seem to be nearly as13 frequent as it used to be.14
It's kind15 of what I get, too.16 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: The17 Department is the -- was the biggest AMR18 user when we entered that project and we19 were able to really go from in less than20 two years to get over 90 percent of our21 customers an AMR device. So it was a22 highly successful program. It's still a23 very good program. The pressure has24 remained on the contractor to perform,25 210 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 and it's worked out beautifully for us, I2 think.3
I would4 agree. Thank you.5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.6
Thank you7 very much.8 We're going to go to our next9 panel. We'd like you to stick around.10 We have one more to go and I think an11 exciting panel about to come up, and we12 can respond to some of the environmental13 questions and issues that they have.14
Representatives15 from Clean Water Action and PA Action.16 (Witnesses approached witness17 table.)18
Good19 afternoon. Can you state your names for20 the record and please proceed.21
My name is Brady22 Russell. I'm the Eastern PA Director for23 Clean Water Action. Thanks for having us24 here today, Chairman Jones, and good to25 211 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 see you, Councilwoman Blackwell and2 Councilman Greenlee here as well.3 I stepped out for a second4 during the beginning of the combined5 sewage overflow piece. Has anyone6 actually defined combined sewage overflow7 yet?8
21 And the reason that happens is through no22 fault of the Water Department. We just23 have an old system that can only take so24 much water coming through it. It mixes25 212 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 both the human waste that goes into the2 sewer system with storm water, and in3 normal conditions when it's not raining,4 there's no overflow, but when it rains,5 like it did yesterday, I feel fairly6 confident that we probably had a combined7 sewage overflow event yesterday when the8 sky exploded. We have raw sewage in our9 rivers and streams. 14 So I just want to go really15 quickly through our testimony. 17 I want to say that on balance,18 Clean Water Action has been happy with19 the progress made and the vision that the20 Philadelphia Water Department has been21 putting forward, particularly as it22 relates to storm water. We do see a few23 shortcomings, a couple of them that have24 come up at this hearing so far, but in25 213 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 24 The shortcomings that we see --25 214 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 and we've said these to the Water2 Department before. They know -- and it's3 one of the things you, Councilman Jones,4 kind of highlighted a moment ago -- is5 that there's no way right now for the6 residential customer to get a reduction7 in their storm water bill for managing8 storm water on site. So right now, the9 Philadelphia Water Department offers10 carrots, so if you come to programs that11 they do on storm water, you might get a12 rain barrel out of it. They can help you13 out with that. I'm sure they have other14 programs as well. It's carrots like that15 that are good, but that's a lot of16 hurdles for a customer to jump. They17 need to figure out where the18 presentations are happening. They need19 to decide if they want to do it. They20 have to go. They have to get the money21 together. Whereas, if any at any time a22 resident was able to find a way to lower23 their storm water costs, they could --24 that could make a big difference for the25 215 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 2 I can tell you for myself, I3 own a house and two vacant lots right4 next to it. Working for Clean Water5 Action, I constantly feel guilty that I6 haven't installed a rain garden on the7 two lots next to my house. But I've got8 more land than the average residential9 customer has. 17 Another thing that we haven't18 seen so far -- and this is really forward19 thinking, but we could lower the pressure20 on our storm water systems by doing21 something about gray water. So having a22 way to separate out the water that just23 goes down your drain from the water that24 goes down your toilet, there's a lot of25 216 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 ways that that can be used that's2 beneficial for the City. Obviously you3 can't drink it, but a --4
Could you on5 the record speak to some of them? Just6 like you graphically painted the picture7 of our dual system, could you also give8 us some suggestions by way of what9 we're --10
Sure. Two11 examples is -- I think in a lot of cases12 gray water is fine to use for irrigation.13 So it might be something for some of our14 urban farming areas. Another way any15 industry that is using water for cooling16 in any form, they could definitely use17 gray water as opposed to potable water.18 So those are just two quick examples. So19 any place where we're using water for20 cooling of any kind, we could use gray21 water. And there's also -- there's no22 reason not to separate out gray water and23 have it just get infiltrated into the24 soil without much treatment. In most25 217 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 cases, that's fine.2 So those are a few examples3 there. Again, this is -- there isn't a4 lot of that happening in the country at5 this point, but it's always worth6 highlighting.7 The last thing I would just8 highlight is, on April 19th, the9 Associated Press came without a report on10 federal research into pharmaceuticals in11 wastewater, and there was strong evidence12 in that report that a lot of the13 pharmaceuticals that we find in our14 drinking water and our wastewater streams15 actually seem to be coming from plants16 that make pharmaceuticals. And so we17 just call on the Philadelphia Water18 Department to continue to monitor19 emerging contaminants in our wastewater20 stream. And if we do seem to be finding21 high incidences of a particular22 contaminant, especially one that we23 manufacture here in Pennsylvania, to do24 some of that detective work and try to25 218 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 figure out where it's coming from,2 because there is strong evidence based on3 this federal report that manufacturers4 are dumping it down the drain. So we're5 concerned about that.6 We do know that they're aware7 of the emerging contaminant issue, that8 they are watching it. We just want to9 continue to put that pressure on that10 they watch this as closely as they can.11 And I guess the last point that12 I would make before I wrap up is, it's13 exciting to see the Philadelphia Water14 Department look for as many15 public-to-public partnerships as they can16 to improve our green infrastructure and17 to lower the level of impervious18 surfaces. We also call on you on Council19 to help them out. The City owns a lot of20 concrete, and the more that we can move21 that to pervious concrete or we can tear22 it up and put in plants where we can,23 we're going to be helping the City24 overall manage its storm water costs and,25 219 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 of course, also beautify the City.2 Our chief concern looking3 forward on storm water is just making4 sure that we do enough fast enough. And5 just remember, every time there's a6 massive rain event, our rivers in the7 City that we all sometimes hang out8 nearby or in get kind of gross.9 Thank you very much.10
Hi, Councilman12 Jones and Councilwoman Blackwell and13 Councilman Greenlee. My name is Karen14 Kennedy and I work with Action PA. It's15 a statewide environmental group based in16 Philadelphia. I'm here to speak about17 cost-effective alternatives to18 chlorinated water, the disposal of sewage19 sludge, as well as the implementation of,20 as stated earlier, an aggressive21 monitoring of our water systems and22 inclusion of public notices of health23 risks and dangers. 25 220 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 But the first thing we suggest2 is that there be a phase-out of chlorine3 from water systems and the introduction4 of ozone or other disinfection methods,5 and the reasoning is is because one --6 although chlorine is a good thing and we7 swim in it all the time, it also kills8 good bacteria as well. When adjusted at9 high concentrations, it can counteract10 Vitamin C and A within the human body,11 also create an imbalance within thyroid12 hormones. It's caustic to the skin and13 hair at times, and it causes an14 overgrowth of a bacteria in the15 intestines called candida. 20 So just a few things. Because21 of that, in 2000, the Olympic Committee22 banned chlorine from all pools for23 Olympic competition. So since the Sydney24 Olympics, all swimmers when competing25 221 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 10 Secondly, we ask for the use of11 ozone or ultraviolet light sludge12 reduction systems. 22 Currently, the City uses digesters, as23 was what was mentioned earlier, to24 process the sludge, and I was actually25 222 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 glad to see that they were creating a2 gas, that they actually do use the gas,3 because I have mentioned here that the4 flames that you see off of I-95 is kind5 of a waste of energy, because that6 methane can be used for electricity7 purposes. 9 But the other concern that we10 have is that some of the residue that's11 left after it's flamed is created into12 agricultural products, which are placed13 on top of baseball fields and put on top14 of foods and vegetables and things like15 that. And so it's been cited a couple of16 times. In '94, '95, two boys were killed17 due to the exposure of Philadelphia18 sludge. This was reported in the Journal19 of United Mine Workers of America. And20 also a microbiologist named Dr. David Lee21 from the EPA noted that one of his22 patients, who was from Clearfield County,23 died of a staph infection after riding24 his dirt bike through an area that had25 223 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 been treated with sludge, and another2 young boy thought of the exact same3 condition after the land next to his4 house had been treated. 8 Not only that, but it's9 important that Philadelphia resolve its10 sewage sludge problem in a way that11 doesn't contaminate our food supply or12 harm our state's rural residents. 24 Thirdly, and one of the things25 224 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 that is really important to me, is the2 mandate of dental offices to include3 amalgam separators. Luckily, in The4 Philadelphia Code, we were able to get5 something passed that allowed for a6 dentist to have to let their patients7 know when their fillings have 50 percent8 or more mercury. Mercury is something9 that is very toxic to the human body when10 exposed to it. It's not scrubbed out of11 sludge and definitely is not scrubbed out12 of water, and it creates a problem for13 our fisheries and our water system. 17 The Environmental Protection18 Agency has stated again that it's a19 neurotoxin. And one of the things that20 we could do by mandating the separators21 is, one, the City wouldn't have to pay22 for it. It only costs between $800 to a23 thousand dollars per dentist to install24 it. Also, we are the first place in the25 225 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 United States to provide public drinking2 water, and it would be nice for it to be3 even safer.
13 Also, we also would like to14 have a fluoride education campaign15 created for new parents. Mike Ewall last16 year testified about the dangers of17 fluoride in the water, but one of the18 things that was noted by the Center for19 Disease Control and the American Dental20 Association is that fluoride introduced21 into children under the age of one can22 permanently damage the tooth enamel and23 also causing dental fluorosis. So we24 just want to let parents know they25 226 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 3 And then, lastly, we again call4 for the active monitoring of toxins and5 heavy metals within our water system. 18
You know, we19 were sitting up here saying we didn't20 know whether to be scared or at least21 feel confident, and so I'm going to ask22 this question: Do you drink Philly tap?23
Yeah, definitely.9 I try to filter it, but, yeah,10 definitely.11
Hey, listen,12 that gives me a degree of confidence,13 because you're knowledgeable consumers14 and so that's important to me.15 A couple of things --16
Can I just say17 one thing? I also just want to -- I've18 liked this since before I worked for the19 Water Action. The Water Department's20 Philly Tap, the bottled water that you21 guys give out, I say it's a great name.22 I wish they filled it more places,23 because if people have got to buy bottled24 water, I wish they'd buy it from right25 228 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 here. Anyway, I love Tap.2
We agree on3 that.4 One other thing, ultraviolet,5 can you explain that process a bit6 because --7
Sure. I don't8 have a good background in those9 particular processes and I can have the10 presentations definitely sent in to you,11 but essentially what happens is is that12 the sludge is put through a process where13 ultraviolet light is concentrated on it.14 It then basically breaks it up and breaks15 it down. So it's a reduction process.16 And so at that point, once you go ahead17 and flare it, you have the methane gas18 and then you have a smaller amount of19 sludge that's being pushed out to the20 landfills. And so it just reduces that21 amount of toxins that are released22 afterwards.23
Well, a24 couple of things, and closing out will be25 229 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 the Water Department to respond to a2 couple of these, but are you familiar3 with some of the dual system replacement4 or solutions that they're coming up with,5 such as the tanks that they're putting6 in, and are you comfortable with their7 efforts to try to reduce some of that8 rainwater runoff in raw sewage going into9 our streams? Are you familiar with it at10 all?11
The overall plan12 that they've talked about with the slight13 mix of gray and overwhelmingly green,14 yeah. We've been watching it for a while15 and are happy with the overall vision.16
Okay. I17 mean, and that's important to me. I18 mean, I actually -- do you do canvassers19 still?20
I spoke23 to -- I was one of the motivational24 speakers that went out.25 230 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591
I did the4 briefing.5 So I'm glad to hear that we are6 making progress, and I want you to be a7 part of, as we go forward to design some8 of these solutions, to get your input9 from it. And it's an educational process10 for us, because sometimes we in11 government don't know these options12 exist. So we can't put forth options if13 we don't know. So that's why these14 hearings are important, and we thank you15 for your testimony.16 Do my colleagues have any17 questions?18 (No response.)19
Thank you.20 And I'd like to ask in the21 final ten minutes closing this out for22 the Water Department to come up.23 (Witnesses approached witness24 table.)25 231 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591
And thank2 you so much for your endurance during3 these hearings, and for you to kind of4 touch on some of the things by way of --5 and I know you're familiar with the dual6 system and some of the challenges when we7 get a big flood, when we have those8 incidents, but I want you to focus more9 towards what we're doing to remediate the10 problem.11 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: I12 think maybe Deputy Commissioner Debra13 McCarty could give you some of the14 details.15 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY:16 I'm sorry, Councilman. I was --17
You weren't18 listening?19 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY:20 Yeah. You're looking to --21
What I want22 to do is talk about -- we understand the23 problem with the rainwater runoff and the24 raw sewage combining when we have25 232 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 increased instances of rain, how that can2 create an overflow into our streams.3 What I wanted you to focus on is some of4 the steps being taken to deal with that5 problem, such as your storage areas and6 then the pumping out of that at a time7 when we have less rainfall.8 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER McCARTY:9 Okay. Well, we're looking at a long-term10 control -- I mean, we're in the midst of11 preparing a long-term control plan to12 address the combined sewer overflows,13 which is, I believe, what you're talking14 about, where sewage combined with15 rainwater does get to our waterways.16 What can't get to one of our three17 treatment plants gets to our waterways.18 So as Joanne and the Commissioner have19 spoken about, we're looking to address a20 lot of that by keeping the water from21 getting to pipes and capturing it in rain22 gardens, tree pits, mostly green23 infrastructure, the impervious paving in24 playgrounds, things that Joanne25 233 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 highlighted earlier in the PowerPoint.2 The other things we're doing is3 giving incentives through the rates that4 should go into effect in Fiscal 2011,5 which would be beginning July 1st, 2010,6 where it will be a parcel-based rate7 process. And the Commissioner could8 speak to that probably better than I.9 Something else is, the folks10 that develop more than 15,000 square feet11 of -- create more than 15,000 square feet12 of earth to surface in the City as of13 January 2006 have to capture that first14 inch of rain and manage that and keep it15 from getting to our system.16 And so those are some of the17 issues we're working on.18 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER:19 Right. I think that was -- Debbie just20 gave you a nice summary of the direction21 we'd like to address these problems. And22 the final determination of whether doing23 most of this work through green24 infrastructure and new laws, new rate25 234 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 tariffs and structures that encourage2 industrial, commercial customers to do3 something on their parcel rather than pay4 a higher storm water charge, these are5 some of the best practices, best ways to6 handle the problem.7 We recognize, however, that8 over 60 percent of the City has the one9 sewer pipe that has the dual purpose of10 sanitary sewage conveyance to the11 wastewater plant and also storm water12 conveyance during rain events. And I13 know one of the pictures that we had up14 there before, you see a little sewage15 running out of a very big pipe, and that16 is typical in dry weather. It's the wet17 weather overflows that we worry about18 when that pipe exceeds its capacity and19 we have to offload that diluted sewage20 into the rivers.21 The other things that we are22 looking into because we have to, it's23 part of -- this is something that most24 other older cities have done in the25 235 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 country. They have signed up and are2 digging deep wells and tunnels to store3 the storm water. This is exactly your4 point. This is something that we are5 trying to do as little as possible, and6 by using green and by using the new7 regulations on redevelopment and8 development of property, it diminishes9 the amount of storm water holding tanks.10 It diminishes the size of having to build11 these things and --12
14 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes,15 they're capital intense. In fact, back16 in the 1970s after the Clean Water Act17 was enacted and the Water Department had18 to build pretty much three new wastewater19 treatment plants -- there were treatment20 plants there before, but they basically21 were completely rebuilt at a cost of22 almost $900 million, and almost 600 of23 that million came from the federal24 government. We were very fortunate to25 236 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 aggressively go after the federal dollars2 and we got them. But before we built3 those plants, we had to undergo a4 storm -- I mean, a sewer assessment, an5 infiltration inflow assessment, because6 if your system isn't tight, you're7 letting a lot of rainwater/storm water go8 to the sewage plants that don't9 actually -- that doesn't actually have to10 go there. And so the plants would be11 oversized. So the federal government was12 not going to pay 75 percent for oversized13 plants. We had to do -- we had to reduce14 infiltration inflow within our system15 before we could size the plants16 appropriately. And just like this, we17 are trying to do and get the approval of18 EPA and DEP to do as much green in our19 long-term control plan as possible to20 avoid having to build these major tanks,21 and the bottom line is that at the end of22 the day, even if we build tanks for two23 or three billion dollars or more, the24 river quality will not be increased very25 237 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 much. 17 And we already know that they like what18 Philadelphia has been doing as far as19 green is concerned, as far as the20 watersheds are concerned. The holistic21 process has been a model to many cities22 across the country. The problem is23 meeting the letter of the law. Do we24 have to build -- I mean, green won't do25 238 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 18 One thing, the good news is,19 bottom line is, Philadelphia's water20 environment is so much better than it21 used to be already. 23 They're award-winning plants every year,24 but environmentalists say there's still25 239 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 pollution getting into the river. It's2 not from the factories. We know how to3 clean that up. The big problem is now4 runoff the land, runoff from the land,5 and our combined sewer overflows. So6 that's what we're targeting. 13
Well,14 hopefully as we look to Washington for15 some relief, that may change, and I think16 we have a President that is sensitive to17 the environment and has a commitment to18 resolving some of its issues.19 Two quick questions as we draw20 this hearing to a close. Some of my21 other colleagues are moving a plastic bag22 ban in the City of Philadelphia. Can you23 briefly touch on what plastic bags have24 meant to the Water Department by way of25 240 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 an environmental hazard?2 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Well,3 I may not be the best one to speak to4 this, but clearly, a lot of plastic bags5 end up in our inlets, our storm water6 inlets, our catch basins, and these7 inlets are tied to our creeks, streams,8 rivers, and so a lot of this material9 will end up in the creek. If it doesn't10 mess up the mechanics of -- the11 hydraulics of our system, our inlets and12 sewer system, they do clog up different13 areas, and eventually much of this14 material ends up coming out one of the15 outfalls into our creek or river. But,16 again, I think we're supportive of17 anything that reduces that.18
I just19 wanted to touch on that.20 I just wanted to say for the21 record that I am thankful to you,22 Commissioner, your staff and the23 professionals in the Water Department for24 what you do. I think that this Committee25 241 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 should be looked to as a partner to2 analyze where we have, evaluate where we3 can and improve where we must the4 operations of this department. That's5 the purpose of this hearing. We should6 do it.7 I would say that we've learned8 a lot today by way of the operations and9 its capital budgets, by way of dual10 systems and a need to improve them, by11 maintaining laterals and mains. I mean,12 we learned a lot about that. We talked13 about a need to improve our DBE/WBE14 minority participation in the process.15 We want to try to look to the green16 revolution to create jobs through17 replacing impervious surfaces with18 pervious surfaces and rain gardens and19 catch basins. We also are exploring the20 possibility of new markets for your21 product, whether it's through our various22 relationships with other companies to23 export our water.24 So all of these stand as great25 242 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 potential, and I just am excited about2 the ongoing process and the possibility3 of an audit, that we shouldn't kind of4 fear it. The auditors are our friends,5 to some degree. I know that's a6 difficult concept at times, but we should7 always do this to get better.8 We should look to a second9 round of the stimulus package as an10 opportunity to move some of our11 shovel-ready projects ahead. Ultimately,12 you're part of a green solution for this13 city. As we start to reduce some of the14 rainwater runoff and its contaminants, as15 we start to look to green roofs as a16 solution, I think you'll be the17 beneficiary of some of that work that we18 do. And I'd like to hear from my19 colleagues as we close out.20
Just very21 quickly, Mr. Chairman. First of all,22 thank you for putting all this together.23 I know that was a lot for you and your24 staff, and I think we did learn a whole25 243 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 lot today. And one other thing I would2 like to say directly to the Water3 Department.4 I think the first time we dealt5 with each other, Commissioner, was on6 that shut-off bill. We didn't7 necessarily agree with each other, but I8 will say that I think one thing we9 learned almost on every subject today was10 that the Water Department is moving in11 the right direction, and I think all of12 you deserve tremendous credit for that.13 Obviously we don't think everything is14 perfect, and what some of us may think is15 perfect, somebody else doesn't. But I16 think on environmental, on customer17 service, on a whole lot of issues, you're18 going in the right direction, and I think19 certainly that's maybe not the most we20 can ask, but certainly that's a21 reasonable thing to ask. So I just want22 to get that on record and thank you for23 what you've done.24 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Thank25 244 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 you.2
Thank6 you very much.7 I note that that pervious8 school water issues that were shown that9 we all praise was at Penn Alexander10 School, Mr. Chairman. That's in the 3rd.11
And13 also we are trying to work out something14 next with the Salzberger School at 48th15 and Fairmount, and we really would like16 to see a program expand with the17 Salzberger there on that land that we18 can't build on. So we want to expand19 that program with students at Salzberger.20 And we would like to invite those who are21 interested in continuing a Mill Creek22 Farm to consider that site. It would be23 ideal for it. It would be much -- it24 would be community friendly, and they'd25 245 6/16/09 - TRANSPORTATION - RES. 0809591 also have a chance to work with the2 students at that school.3 Thank you all very much.4
Well, thank5 you.6 This will conclude our hearing,7 and we will recess at the call of the8 Chair the Committee of Transportation and9 Public Utilities.10 Thank you all very much.11 COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Thank12 you.13 (Committee on Transportation14 and Public Utilities concluded at 2:1515 p.m.)16 - - -17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 246 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on June 16, 2009, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 13 ______________________________14 MICHELE L. MURPHY15 RPR-Notary Public16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25