Yes. There are lots of rail lines where we use the line and we have trackage rights, but we do not own the bridge.
I'm not sure if they still have service there, but we checked and we don't own the bridge.
Let me understand this. During the major reconstruction of that line 219 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole -- there was actually an additional line built. This was actually around the building of the Convention Center when they eliminated a portion of the rail line that actually went into the old Reading Terminal train shed. You are telling me that that line is owned by Amtrak?
A significant piece of all the lines that we operate on are owned by Amtrak.
Although Amtrak never owned that line? Wasn't that owned by the Reading Rail Line?
Well, the Reading line is owned -- part of the tracks we operate were owned by the Reading lines and others owned by Amtrak and actually one or two CSX, but we will double-check. This is part of our rail works.
I have never known Amtrak to use that line during the Reading train shed and I don't know if you go back because I didn't think Amtrak was in existence back then and then during the time of the elimination of the rail line into the train shed when there was a new line built, I'm trying to understand why Amtrak would build a viaduct along that corridor if they never 220 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole had trains or currently don't have trains on it and that was a relatively expensive development, I'm assuming, by virtue of the length of it. You are telling me that Amtrak owned the line prior to -- when it was used by Reading trains and the elimination of the Reading trains, subsequently the line as it relates to the Convention Center construction, that Amtrak decided to rebuild a brand new viaduct? And I'd say it is probably a couple miles long. Having never used it for trains, you are saying that Amtrak took that expense on its own for purposes of SEPTA?
We will check the ownership. This was part of rail works, which was a little before my time, so we have to double-check the ownership.
Well, why would you come here today and say that Amtrak owns it?
What Miss Jones has indicated is in doing the research she thinks Amtrak owns the property. We will double-check and confirm. I can tell you there is very little track that we own immediately within this corridor, within the Center City piece. But we can double-check who 221 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole owns that one.
I understand. I'm only asking for some lights under there.
If Amtrak owns it, I have to go to Amtrak to get the lights, although SEPTA utilizes the lines?
Correct. We pay trackage fees for all the lines, but if we determine that it is Amtrak, we will also give you a name to get in touch with.
If it is determined this it is owned by SEPTA, you will take the responsibility for putting the lights under the bridge?
Then we'll talk. I would have to know the magnitude of what is happening. We will look into it.
We have been talking for a while. I don't want to keep talking about it.
We will find out who owns it. Let us first find out who owns it, so we know what degree of responsibility we can even --
We have already gone 222 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole over that. I'm asking if SEPTA owns it -- and you are not sure, I agree. We will concede the fact that we are not sure, but if SEPTA does own it, my question is will you put the lights under the bridge if it is then your ownership and your responsibility is creating an unsafe condition; i.e., the residents of that particular community in the playground, will you put lights under the bridge?
So what I'm saying is I cannot commit to that. I have to double-check and see what is involved and get back in touch with you. This is the first I'm really hearing about the project, so I need to get somewhat up to speed.
Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.
Thank you. When I asked you about the C Line, I don't have -- I guess we will get it in the material that you sent -- the lines that you are contemplating discontinuing. You said you sent that over to us? 223 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole
That was another package that just came last week. That looks like it. That had nothing to do with the operating budget. That was information that we sent last year regarding the service, the budget.
Is this the thing that we were looking for that we couldn't find before?
This notice of your annual service plan public hearings, is that just for those areas that you are going to reorganize, 63 and 64? You have a hearing in Chester, 1234, Tenley Temple and Turner Middle School. Is that only because those areas are impacted by this plan?
By the service plan. Before 224 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole we realized how big the deficit was, the service plan would have represented those changes that we anticipated making to our services, so that is for that plan. There are subsequent hearings being developed for the fare increase, service standards -- I mean service reductions as well as the budget overall, and that will be two hearings in each one of the five counties. So the hearing you just referred to is just for the initial service plan.
So now those people in my district who ride the C bus, they have to come downtown or go to Tenley Temple or 59th Street or Chester for public hearings? Are there public hearings in the northwest?
No. We are going to have two public hearings in Philadelphia. They are both going to be at the Convention Center, since we anticipate a lot of participants.
And this is for the entire reduction under rail service?
And the fare 225 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole increase?
Correct, and that is two hearings in each one of the five counties.
Will the system still be funded by the time they have the hearings so people will be able to get to the Convention Center?
When is this action going to take place, the discontinuation of these lines?
I will give you a general answer because we also have some union contracts and things that have to take place. We anticipate for the most part we are talking when we do the fall schedules they will be in effect.
So this notice for SEPTA's fiscal year 2003 annual service plan public hearings, that was just for the targeted area where you had planned to reorganize?
So this is no 25 longer effective? 226 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole
Oh, no, you are still having the service plan because, again, it is a separate document, so you are going to have to have service plan hearings. So that is still in place, but we have added for the budget and during that time frame you can do budget, fare hearings, the service reductions, et cetera, and those will take place about mid-May. There is another schedule coming out.
Okay. Well, I guess I am wondering where was the hearing for the northwest section of the City for the service plan?
We are trying to concentrate all of it in Center City so that the greatest number of people have access to it.
I will again caution you about Route C. Unless you are prepared to spend millions of dollars to make the subway line handicapped accessible, you might rethink discontinuing that route. Thank you. Thank you, colleagues.
Microphone for 227 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Fay Moore and Frances Jones.
I'm not going to refer to the letter I sent you because I don't believe you have read it yet or had an opportunity to review the letter in reference to the service cuts so I will hold back on that, but I can tell you that it amazed me that we sat here a few weeks ago and there wasn't one little blurb about these service cuts and I have talked to some people at Philadelphia International Airport, that this has really become a disservice to the people. We are opening up a multimillion dollar, many millions of dollar terminal, international terminal, and, as you know, international travels like access to light rail and I think honestly in my opinion you were ill-advised in trying to turn this into a political mission to try to get Harrisburg's attention.
That was not the case at 228 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole all, sir. I know that has been published, but that is not the case at all, sir.
I don't think too many people believe that. We are being candid here. I believe it was a political decision and I believe it was ill-advised and I think that it will be proven because, again, I don't see where you honestly have made any effort to try to reduce service. I mean you got right to the bottom line. You didn't suggest efficiencies. You didn't suggest running service in the peak versus the nonpeak. In my opinion and everyone that I have spoken to, especially since you didn't even mention when you were here for all of that time, how drastic -- and this probably is my opinion, you talk about the budget. I heard you say it to Councilman Goode. I believe you knew this because I have talked to some other people at SEPTA that told me that this is not new, that this plan has been on the table for a while now.
Sir, then I will tell you that whoever you talked to lied to you because it is not. We have every year a deficit situation that we have to address. That part is not new, but this 229 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole plan was not on the table. It was being formed. Projections were being looked at when I was here.
I don't want to debate that with you. You have your opinion. You have an informed decision. I've been around politics a long time and around this city a long time and this seems like a very, very drastic step to take in my personal opinion especially the R-1 airport line and the Route C and some of the other services, just to say you are going to cut them and, just to remind you, this is only 6 percent of your budget you are talking about here. To go to that extreme that you as good managers can't figure out how to make this system work without all this -- again, because I refer to it as politics, but I'll move on from there.
Councilman, excuse me. Before you move on, I was going to ask about the airport line. How much did it cost us for the construction of that line?
We would have to talk to 230 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole those involved in that to get the information.
I will tell you that one of the criteria we looked at -- well, some years back we all adopted what we call service standards. About two, three, four years ago they were adopted for the regional rail lines. As part of that we also did a ranking for each one of the routes. The R-6 Kenwood is the lowest producing route that we have and the airport is the next to it. So it transports about 2000 people daily, but it is still one that is not as efficient as some of the other routes that we have.
I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I have questions on that and I appreciate your letting me ask them.
Not a problem, Madam President. I spoke with representatives of the airport and they indicate to me that employees that work there, vendors that work there, depend on that line to go to work. Now we are opening up this new terminal. What kind of message does it send to the 231 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole traveling public that here we are trying to get this airport back on track, this incredible project, and we're talking about disconnecting the line between the airport and 30th Street? It just doesn't make sense unless it is politics. Unless it is sending a message to Harrisburg, I can't imagine a good manager wanting -- and I'm not being disrespectful to you. I'm talking about the people that help you make these decisions, trying to eliminate an airport line, and I have comments about many of the other lines that you are suggesting, but again it just doesn't make any sense.
The guests of the airport party will be going on the last train.
Many of those guests aren't going to be taking the train. They are going to fly in, Councilman Ortiz. So that's my feeling about this entire situation, and when you have an opportunity to read my letter, I assume some of the questions we asked about your police department, et cetera, have been responded to because I haven't gotten those answers. They are probably in that box.
The issue that I would appreciate you getting back to me on who you would assign this is a question that I've asked for years and years to your predecessor. I would like to know could you get with the School District and work together in an effort to transport our school children. I see too many yellow school buses on our city streets where I was told that legally you can't help the School District in transporting our school children and using SEPTA buses like we do with school buses. You're in the business of transportation. Maybe the School District shouldn't be in it. Maybe they should have not as significant a role as they have in transporting our school kids. I would appreciate it if you and Paul Valas could get together and tell me what you can do legally to help the School District, using the expertise of SEPTA, in trying to reduce the dollars that the School District has to spend in the transportation of school students. I use this analogy. I go to a particular intersection in the morning and, without exaggeration, there is half a dozen school buses, two waiting to go this direction, two the other, and 233 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole I look up and there's eight, ten kids on each of the buses, some days less than that. So I would appreciate it if you would assign someone at the top of your organization to work with the School District to see and identify what you can do, what you can't do, what the obstacles are, and if there is some legislation that is required, maybe our friends in Harrisburg, if there are obstacles, can help at least with that. I doubt it's a local issue if there are obstacles, but sometimes people, just to get away from the question, say, "We can't do that." I like people who can figure out how we can do it and do more utilizing SEPTA.
You're welcome. We are having trouble with our sound equipment today for some reason. Let me just ask a question. How and when will the users of the C bus be notified of this 234 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole hearing?
I will tell you the efforts that we have undertaken for community information. We first have to formally publish the budget book. My finance people are busy back there because they have to deliver copies to the public libraries today just by our own statute. In addition, we will be taking out full information in -- making legal announcements in the paper, et cetera. We do outreach. In some instances we do seat drops, et cetera, so there will be a lot of information circulated about all the service changes. And I was just reminded it is placed in every vehicle. There are formal notices placed in every vehicle, bus, trolley.
I don't have a copy of whatever it was that was circulated regarding -- in fact, Joan DePaul is here and before you leave I would like you to get together with her so we know exactly what we should have to distribute.
In the box with the three large copies there should have been other copies also. 235 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole
You are going to have to see her because there were only three copies and we need and I think a call was made to 5 provide 20 copies. 6 Let's go back to the C bus. Are we 7 anticipating that the people who would normally be 8 using the C bus will now use the subway? 9
Some of them. There are 10 other mechanisms. There are other services. I 11 don't know the specific for each one of the routes, 12 but we can give you -- 13
What other 14 route would they use if they didn't use the subway? 15 What street would they have to go to? 16
Aren't there other buses 17 running along that way? Just the Broad Street? 18 But, again, in our response back we will indicate 19 the thought process we undertook with regard to the 20 C bus.
Would you tell us when you do that what improvements you are making to make the subways safer and cleaner so that we wouldn't hesitate to use it?
And, you know, this past weekend I believe there were three events down at the stadium area and I am sure -- and I don't know how closely you work with the people at the stadium area, but when there are three such events, don't you think SEPTA would advertise for people who are going to either the game or to an event to use public transportation?
We actually did that. We put it in the Metro. We did some seat drops.
Not everybody gets the Metro that goes to the game. Not everybody gets the Metro unless you are in town and you are using public transportation.
I guess not too many people heard, nor would they take advantage of it. Was there much of an increase with passengers this weekend?
Yes, we took a significant increase in passengers. I don't have the count numbers, since I have been over here today, but they tell me we had an increased volume over the weekend. 237 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole
With the airport line, I suggest that you look at that again. You said that you only have 2000 users a day, 2000 people who are going to be greatly inconvenienced. I think that you may not have to use as many runs, but that service certainly should be available, particularly now with the expansion. As I said, the lights are not working, so anyone that wants to be recognized, if you would just raise your hand, please, because there is something wrong with the monitor. Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Route C, I wasn't going to ask any, but Route C --
Again, I don't have the ridership in front of me, but I would say, yes, just from personal observations I would say yes.
It has a high 238 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole ridership.
It does. I can tell you because I -- and I think the Council President said you expect all of those individuals that use that bus because the rationale was not low ridership. The rationale was not that it was losing money on that line. I guess the airport line you might be using that rationale. The rationale is that it was a duplicate of another route and that duplicate is the train. I don't think that is quite a good comparison. I don't think if you are leaving -- all of those individuals, has anybody thought what is the percentage of people that will not go down to the subway if the C route is stopped? Does anybody have a thought about that?
Our planners have. Again, when we send you the information on the C, we will include all the thought processes that went behind it.
And that lady that Councilwoman Tasco talked about, she can get a taxi to the next subway station --
And we will also address the 239 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole handicapped assessment.
But if it is not losing money and it is a high ridership, why take off one of the most popular lines you have? It doesn't seem to go with public relations. We have a popular line here. Let's inconvenience people. Let's take it out. We'll make a lot of people happy that way. We will increase the ridership of SEPTA. We will make a lot of friends that way. It doesn't make sense to take a highly utilized line just in public relations, in terms of anything, and eliminating it. I don't know what thought process took place that illuminated that this was a great idea, but if it is being used and it is popular and it is high ridership, why eliminate it? That is almost a slap in the face of the public transport rider. You utilize us, so we are going to eliminate what you use. Don't you think so?
Of course, nothing is as simple. It is as simple as that. You're sitting in your apartment. You know that you take that line and it isn't because it is losing money. It isn't because it is being underutilized. The train to the 240 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole airport you might say is being underutilized, although people can question whether that is lack also of letting people know that the service is really available. Very few people do know about that. And I think it is probably lack of communications and public relations, but when you have something that is utilized -- I have here -- these are petitions and it may not seem to be a huge number, but these are all students from one high school. They are from the High School of the Performing Arts. I was there last Friday and they have a petition about the cuts in services and about what Councilman Goode spoke about, the 10 percent increase. We have been debating the money that is charged students here for a very long time. We have been asking SEPTA to find ways in which students can ride for free or get a bigger subsidy or get a bigger discount. To his question you just said, "Well, they cut a check." Well, they cut a check and then they sell the tokens to the students.
They cut a check, but you increase the token and the student has to carry 241 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole your increase.
But we need students to go to schools. There is a special responsibility that we have. It isn't as simple as you cut a check. The School Board is not also a deep-pocketed corporate structure. It is coming from the same individuals that give you your subsidy and I think we need to be able to look at those things. I really don't think that there has been a lot of thought given to these policies that you are putting forward.
Yes, sir, there has been. Like I said, I will give you the information on the Route C. I will give you any information that you need on your service changes, but these things were not done in a vacuum.
Councilman Goode, do you have a point of information?
-- I don't have your answers in front of me as to the contracts that we asked for last time in terms of SEPTA, in terms of public service contracts, in terms of lawyers, all 242 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole of those. I don't have those answers. But you are going to come back.
You are going to have to come back here. You are going to have to come back. I'm sorry. Before I approve a cent, I vote a cent for any subsidy, you are going to have to come back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Today I thought we should rise to say we know that we have a meeting in fact on the 24th in West Philadelphia with regard to closing Angora Terrace and that is absolutely going to be a big issue for people who live right there. It is one block from a new senior residence, 243 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole Bernice Arms, for example, named after my mother and it is a block from Turner School. It is the same block as a shopping mall, 58th Street Mall, and it is a real big issue. People are threatened with the rate increase and then to take away a route that has been around forever is very, very difficult. So I would hope that you would consider that. I know we have a meeting next week or the 24th, whenever that is, to discuss the issue, but we already know that the community is really, really upset about that. And the other thing -- and, as you know, that is the last stop on the edge -- at the end of 59th Street on Baltimore Pike when you leave the city. It is our last stop. So we don't have anything. And we have a lot of seniors around there and without that it is going to be a real severe hardship. The other thing I'm concerned about obviously are the SEPTA reconstruction projects. We haven't spoken to the President's office yet, but we are trying to still deal with the issues that -- we still are considering having a public hearing before the end of next month so that those community businesses who are so concerned have an opportunity 244 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole to come in. We appreciate you working with us on lots at 60th and 54th Street to -- 56th Street to deal with temporary parking and hopefully they will be transferred to the city afterwards for permanent parking for people who shop on the strip, but we are also concerned about those neighborhood businesses who are really, really suffering. We have worked with the Commerce Department to help to be involved in a facade treatment, but obviously a facade treatment doesn't start until the work stops which is some five years away, six years away, and also the curbs and sidewalks and all the problems that therein exist, obviously that won't be finished until the end of the project. Our businesses are really, really suffering. We have approached everyone from our Congressman on down for help because these are neighborhood businesses, so we don't have people coming in from the suburbs or Center City or some other place to shop, just poor neighborhood people who see their area so disorganized that they don't appreciate that it is technically opened if they can't get to them and finally I say in that regard -- so we ask you to 245 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole work with us, but I will say in that regard I went to a demonstration at the Stop N Go at 55th and Larchwood where they were demonstrating 155 days on Sunday. I don't know. All the days run together when you are always working. On Saturday the block captain says that there is no dumpster so the workers at the end of the night stack their boards and they just won't clean up. They always have -- SEPTA won't clean up. He managed to get somebody from the water department to get him some kind of wrench. They won't put a dumpster and won't clean up and they don't move their stuff. They just stack it. They just use the block because it is a dead end as if they have a right to do that but they are people who live there, so we are again appealing -- I know we have in the past -- to you to appeal to those workers to give to the community -- it is hard enough. We want the project, but we want them to clean up at the end of the day. I'm still getting those complaints that they will not clean up at the end of the day. They won't put their materials away. They won't sweep up, that they just totally disrespect the community, and that is the part that exacerbates it when they won't sweep or clean up or 246 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole move their stuff.
They just stop and leave and then we have the community saying nobody cares about them in addition to the businesses. I can make available the block captain's name and number who has a property there and who himself has taken to sweeping up the whole block because he has been there since the '80s but feels that we really need some help there and some respect.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Moore, I would like to better understand the time line that we are working with and some of the responses to the earlier questions. Tell me again or refresh my memory, when were you last here?
I think March 11, or was it the 18th? The 11th. 247 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole
And when was it known -- it seems that the governor's budget is a bit of the impetus for at least this one document that we have and I know there has been a search for another document, but when you came to us, did you -- again refresh my recollection. You are saying that you already had a $40 million deficit?
At that point in time I didn't know the dollar amount. I knew we had a deficit. We routinely have a deficit. I didn't know the magnitude of that deficit when I was before Council.
So your testimony gave no indication back at that time as to what the actual deficit was?
Because we did not know the actual deficit. I indicated in there we had a budget situation like the state, like the City, et cetera, but I did not know the dollar amount.
It was between the meeting and the board meeting that I had on the 26th. Right. We were finalizing it between the time we 248 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole left here and the time we had to present some information to the board, which would have been March 26.
Not to delve too much into your process and procedure over there, but you have a chief financial officer, right?
And I will make the big assumption that you meet from time to time and that SEPTA, like most other agencies, keeps a general ledger of what its finances are at any particular point in time?
When was the last time you were aware of what the deficit might be?
Let's just make sure that we are talking about the right frame of reference.
Forget about the additional 6 percent cut from the state. Are you aware on a monthly or biweekly basis, depending on how often people in the shop meet, just what your current cash situation is, what your projected 249 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole deficit is at any point in time?
What we get monthly would be our current situation, how much our revenue is, how much our expenses. When we see that general trend, we start compiling all of our information around this time of year so we can start looking at our projection for fiscal year 2004, so next year.
But you are not tracking during the course of the current fiscal year --
Not a projected -- well, projected deficit for this fiscal year, but we are not expecting a deficit for this fiscal year. This is for fiscal year 2004 that we are expecting a deficit.
What do you expect your finances to be at the end of this fiscal year?
How are you going from balanced to a $40 million deficit?
In that same information you should see a major increase of about $42 million and 250 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole it is outlined in there. We are talking prescription drug increases. We are talking about wage increases. We are talking about propulsion power increases, and those dollar amounts should be outlined in that information that you have.
Are you talking about for the moment the press release?
I have a section 11 here called "Additional Expense Projections," total budget $888 million, $42 million increase, 5 percent increase compared to FY '03; is that what we are talking about?
Wage increase, $16 million, medical 10.4, prescription drugs 3, pension contribution 5, propulsion power and fuel, 1, materials and services, 7.
And you are saying that none of this information was available when you were with us March 11?
We start doing the 251 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole projections for the next year during the same time frame of coming to Council, so sometimes late February, but no later than about mid-March we start looking at our actual numbers and then project forward.
800 million or 888 for 2004 so 840 or 50 million for this year.
We received rather detailed information, for instance, from the School District, I think technically who was in after you, shortly after you, which lays out anticipated end of the fiscal year as well as budgets for future years and anticipated deficits and the like. I think actually our budget director is over there for the City and we get the same information from the City. How is it that when SEPTA comes it is under a circumstance where you don't know what the state of your finances are?
I didn't say we didn't know 252 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole the state of our financials. I said I didn't know the magnitude of the deficit. When we issue our budget book, we put in there a five-year projection. That tells us that we have growing at significant deficits. So each year we face a deficit. In the last six or seven years what we have been managing to do is reduce internal expenses to have balanced that. In addition to that, we had a fare increase in 2001. What we didn't know was the size of the deficit. If memory serves me right, we had one general manager that proclaimed a $75 million deficit to this group and it was nowhere close to that after we started finalizing and doing the information. So I didn't want to give a false number. I wanted to have a good number, and I had a better number March 26.
That's when I met with my board to give them a briefing about the financial condition.
And then we were informed I guess basically as a result of either 253 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole that presentation or the press release that went out on either March 31 or April 1?
Thank you, Madam President. Did the board take any action on March -- 12
-- relative to 14 approving any cuts, approving any fare increase, any 15 statements regarding fare increase, any consensus 16 that this should be a combination of fare increases 17 and cuts? What was the board's response to what I 18 assume was information shared with them that day? 19
It was just that, 20 information shared. The board knows that we have to 21 go through public processes and they will get the 22 first draft of the budget book along with everybody 23 else. 24
So the board had no 25 direct feedback before you would come out and talk 254 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole about discontinuing those types of services and fare increases?
Their response was pretty much what it was here, it is going to be ugly, there's going to be some tough decisions, but we have a need for $55 million, and to fix that need, it is going to be very painful for all of us.
So the board won't take any formal action until June 26?
At the latest, and we sort of say at the latest because with all the input we are going to receive, we anticipate not giving it to them in May but to give it to them in June to vote on.
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilman Nutter.
Let me make one suggestion based on this chain of events. I would like to recommend that whenever SEPTA comes at budget time -- and I understand you have an $888 million budget. We contribute 58 million, so 255 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole somewhat small in the general scheme of things, but I think we are the largest county contributor. Is that correct?
And then a significant amount of the farebox revenues come from Philadelphia residents; is that correct?
That's not bad, five counties and one of them is putting 49 percent in the pot.
Would Philadelphia be the largest proportion of the farebox?
If I could recommend then for next year's hearing and in the future if SEPTA would come at a time when it is in a position to present a full financial picture including what you anticipate the deficit to be.
That would work for me. We 256 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole will coordinate it. I don't know who we coordinate it with, but that would work for me.
Now, Councilman Goode asked a number of important questions, but the most recent one, so here we have a situation where the general manager and the staff make a presentation with a host of recommendations to the board as to what your financial situation is and how you would propose to respond to it. Is that what happened on the 26th?
The board's response is some combination of that is pretty interesting and it sounds pretty ugly, end of response?
It was a deeper response, but I mean it was no formal action, et cetera. They too have to have the opportunity to study each one of the routes that we are looking at. They have to get input from other people and we have to do detailed presentations to them in terms of formal briefing. We outlined it in general terms and 257 4/7/03 - Committee of the Whole overall terms for them. We first had to make the determination that there was a $55 million problem and that is where we spent most of our time with the board, just making sure that they understood the magnitude of the problem.