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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 6, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 6, 20203h 4m

Is the garage higher than the third floor?

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The garage is two separate sections.

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The third floor of the garage is on the western section,

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and then it goes up to six floors along 20th Street

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and sort of right in the middle of the block of Hamilton

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or Spring Garden, depending on how you want to measure.

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Okay, thank you.

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Yeah.

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Mr. Homler, is Mr. Schramm a resident of City View Condominiums

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or any of his family?

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He has a brother who lives in the North Tower.

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Mr. Schramm's brother lives in the North Tower of your building, right?

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Yes.

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Is he on the board of the association?

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No, absolutely not.

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He is only a tenant.

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All right. But you are called upon to respond to requests of any resident of the City of

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Wakanda as the building manager. No, not at all. Excuse me? You're not required to respond to

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requests by your residents? You're the building manager, right? You don't understand that

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Wakanda Minium Association works there. Oh, I don't. I'm a lawyer. I think I do understand.

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Do you have to respond to a request by Mr. Schram's brother as a resident of your building?

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Absolutely not. He is a tenant. He is not an owner.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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In all seriousness, and I'm going to be very blank here. Yes.

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So did the board vote on this?

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No, there's no resolution of the board.

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Okay. So you're acting on your own accord.

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No, I'm not. I'm acting at the direction of members of the board,

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but they did not have an open meeting and discuss a policy resolution.

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All right.

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So the request came from residents of for you to do this letter and do this

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testimony came from residents of your association of which Mr.

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Schrein's brother is involved, right?

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You're qualifying in a very poor light.

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And I'd like to clarify that firstly,

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Mr. Schrein's brother is a tenant.

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A condominium association is an organization of owners.

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so one individual unit owner rents his home to the applicant's brother that person has no

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standing as a member of the association

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but you're building manager for for the entire process the entire building right

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i manage city view 2 which is the south tower mr strain's brother lives in the north tower

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which is managed by another person that i work uh okay i think that might be all i have oh

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mr uh mr homler you've you submitted a letter right for this case as well as the president

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of the board then the joint committee mr homler please please wait for the question to be finished

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before you answer sorry sorry there's another letter from someone else other than you from

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to City View? Yes. Mr. Chairman, I haven't seen that letter. That should have been provided to

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me, but I'll move on with my questioning. I'm almost done. So, in your letter, you state that

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my client's scaffolding is a blight, don't you? Yes. Yeah. And so, does that mean that someone

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that does work to beautify their property, which requires scaffolding, that's a blight?

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No, if it's temporary and if there's signs of progress.

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so this so the person has to move expeditiously in your opinion and finish the job even though

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there's a proposal next door that might impact that work well the proposal is newer than the

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scaffolding i agree but do you understand that the scaffolding is part of a historic process

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that my clients engaged in are you telling this board that her attempt to meet requirements of

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the historical commission and beautify the rear for property is a blight objection mr chairman

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uh council's now testifying yeah i hear i hear what you're saying mr miller but i mean your

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your witnesses basically opened up that argument like saying that it's a blight and that uh i mean

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he's creating the questions for for mr demarco yeah mr chairman your property if whatever shape

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or form it eventually gets decided on we'll have scaffolding for a certain period of time i mean

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certain period of time i mean it's mr chairman uh mr demarco made these same arguments to the

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it's mr chairman uh mr demarco made

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historical commission and and and the historical commission didn't order any scaffolding to be

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erected or and and this is well that's how the work gets done well if if it were true your honor

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if it were true, Mr. Chairman, but okay.

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It is true.

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I mean, if work is required above the first floor,

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generally speaking, there's some sort of scaffolding

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that's required.

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And the scaffolding has been-

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There's no such thing as a skyhook.

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Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the possibility what I'm-

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Well, we'll talk about the credibility.

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I think we're belaboring this point,

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to be perfectly honest with you.

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I can move on.

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Please.

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Yeah, you made the point.

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I think the point is made.

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I'll ask Mr. Hamler one more question here.

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Sure.

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So I'll ask Tanya to give me the share screen.

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I can do that, Tanya?

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Yes, Mr. DeMarco.

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Thank you.

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Is my image appearing?

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this is something that the applicant can you see it I can see both images all right this is in it

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I'm going to rely on the applicant's image uh for purposes of this question do you see

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the image on the right Mr. Homler yes the yellow yes and that was prepared by the applicant by

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by uh Mr. Schramme uh Mr. Schramme's uh architect and we're going to accept that for now now do you

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see that image now now you have stated in your letter to this board that the height of the

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proposed building matches my client structure tell me tell me how that's possible when you

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look at the image on the right do you do you want to withdraw that question that statement

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not necessarily so you think that these two buildings match the height when you when you

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look at it from this angle right it's very difficult for you to match up the lines but

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But it appears that the darker of the yellow sections aligns with that floor and the other part aligns with the front of the building.

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But where that one circle on the absolute top towards the middle of the building, that wall there, obviously, I would say, is higher than the rest of it.

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But it does look like it fits the footprint pretty well.

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You do agree, though, that – I'm sorry, you said that the footprint matches?

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Did I just hear that correctly?

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What I'm saying is if you look at the individual floors, it looks like it aligns with the floors of the adjacent building pretty well.

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All right.

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So your testimony is that the image of the right, the proposed structure, matches the building to the left.

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Is that your testimony?

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Tony? No, I'm saying that from this angle, it appears that from a stacking level in terms of

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floor heights, that it matches with the exception of that portion with the small circle towards the

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center of the image being higher than the rest. So you agree with me that the proposed structure

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does not match the height exactly at all right not exactly all right no further questions

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i just want to wait say one thing if it's possible about the light

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it's not in front i didn't ask the question i mean he's his my cross is over just because it

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was made up as an image before we have southern exposure so most of that is blocked by a six

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floor garage except for the peak of the summer and that's your garage right six stories high

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yes it's six stories right okay if there's anything that's blocking light it's our garage

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uh fair enough i agree i agree uh mr boland do you have any questions for this witness

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it did however the witness just clarified that his garage towers over the property um therefore

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making it clear that his

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residents have no standing, that

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they suffer no harm. So I have

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no questions. Yeah, I was trying

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to get to that myself. Okay, thank you.

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Mr. Miller?

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Thank you.

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I think that it's probably

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appropriate to offer

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Mr. Kang on cross.

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Thank you.

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Mr. DeMarco, Mr.

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Bowen, decide who's going first.

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And thank you for taking the witness

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out of order. Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll start with Mr. Kang. I guess I'll put up one of Mr. Kang's

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documents. I can still share screen, right, Tanya? Yes, sir. Thank you.

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everybody see the uh mr kang's image on the screen

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Everybody see?

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are you seeing my image mr jess yes mr kang uh let me talk to people ask you about the historic

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process um uh so concept one this was a concept that you withdrew right yes and it's fair to say

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that you withdrew that that proposal because uh the of objections from this architectural committee

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right not necessarily didn't you go to the architectural committee and they had serious

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concerns isn't that fair to say mr kang i'm sorry the committee did staff did not

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well that's not what i asked you i think you just you just agreed with me the architectural

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committee sent you back because they were not they were they gave they had

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strenuous objections to concept one correct yes and you offered that staff

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did not but I think we all agree so I'll move on and this concept one was taller

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than my clients property right yes okay so and you would agree that when you

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when you go through the historical Commission process you submit drawings

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or your client, you or your client, submit drawings to the commission and request approval, right?

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Yes.

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Right. You file a building permit application, right?

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Yes.

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Okay. So it's the applicant's choice on what to propose and give to the commission.

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Wouldn't you agree with that?

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Yes. The committee does not design the buildings.

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Right. So when you testified during your direct examination that the historical commission

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required you to match my client's property that was because your earlier iteration of the project

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was taller than my client's structure correct yes but we also brought our approved zoning plan

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at least if that were not yet approved mr kang you're getting we're getting an echo

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So, I'm not hearing you clearly.

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And I would like to hear what you said.

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You said what about the zoning?

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No, that's because I have to mute.

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Mr. Kahn, last statement, what did you say about the zoning?

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So, we asked the staff level, would a 38-foot high building be approved?

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They said no.

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I'm sorry. First of all, I'm going to object. That's hearsay. But let's get into that.

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You never put a 38-story building in front of the staff, did you?

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No, just the zoning plan.

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All right. And we're going to get to that permit in a minute. You pulled an over-the-counter permit that complied with the zoning code, didn't you, Mr. Cash?

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Yes.

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Okay. So before I leave that issue, so there is an approval for this applicant for a building, a new building, which complies with the zoning code. Agreed?

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Yes.

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Okay. But that applicant, your client, has chosen not to propose that 38 zoning compliance structure to either this board or the commission, correct?

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not an affordable presentation right so the applicant chose not to move forward

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with a historical commission approval for that over-the-counter project correct

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we were advised it would not get approved i'm sorry you were advised by who again

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all right the staff doesn't make the decision for the commission do they

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no but they're advisory to the committee and commission

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okay so they take heavily favor on what they say okay but first of all that those people are not

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available to be asked that question so this is hearsay but i'm going to go with it you chose

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not to present that anyway right so you have no idea what the commission would say if you proposed

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a zoning compliant structure do you i would say that most likely they would not accept our sight

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lines would not align up which then it is no longer in character of the historic district

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but Mr. Kang you don't know that you don't know what the commission would have done right this

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commission right yes okay fair enough appreciate that so the commission is free to ignore their

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staff and has done so on many occasions isn't that true objection well he opened the door Mr.

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chairman about what the staff would or wouldn't do or what the Commission would or wouldn't do

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Talk about what the staff would or wouldn't do or what the commission would or wouldn't do.

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I object to Mr. DeMarco's statement about what the historical commission may have done in other cases.

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I'm sorry.

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That's what his witness just did.

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Yes.

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No, no.

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Mr. Chairman, the witness said that.

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I lost you there.

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Maybe you can rephrase the question, Mr. DeMarco.

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I'm happy to. Mr. Kang testified that, first of all, they responded to the objection, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kang testified that he didn't think the commission would approve the 38-foot structure. So my question is, Mr. Kang, you have no idea what the commission would or wouldn't approve.

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action. Mr. Chairman, that's not what the witness testified to. And Mr. DeMarco.

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He's asked a direct question. He can answer yes or no.

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Well, Mr. Chairman, Mr. DeMarco is deliberately ignoring his knowledge of how these things work.

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When you get guidance from staff, you follow that guidance. That's what Mr. Kang is testifying to.

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He was told by the staff what would or would not be acceptable, and he tailored his submissions

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