civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - August 6, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Aug 6, 20203h 4m

to comport with that guidance.

Similar wording

Now, Mr. DeMarco says,

Similar wording

well, you don't know what would happen

Similar wording

if you submitted a 38-foot.

Similar wording

He's already said it wouldn't be approved

Similar wording

because staff told him that.

Similar wording

Now, Mr. DeMarco has preserved the argument

Similar wording

that maybe lightning would strike

Similar wording

and maybe they would bless a building

Similar wording

that was 12 feet shorter than the next-door neighbor,

Similar wording

giving the neighborhood a view of a blank wall.

Similar wording

He can make that argument,

Similar wording

but he doesn't have to beat the dead horse

Similar wording

with this witness. Mr. Chairman, this is an attempt to interrupt my cross-examination and

Similar wording

not have, I understand Mr. Miller not wanting his witness to answer questions like this because

Similar wording

they're harmful to his case, but I have a right to hear the answer to the question because they've

Similar wording

been making the historical commission process a part of this case from the very get-go. So I have

Similar wording

the right to challenge some of their assumptions that they're making because he clearly testified

Similar wording

that the commission would not would not have approved a 38 story as of right project

Similar wording

that i mean that's what i heard so right objection overruled okay mr kang i'll repeat

Similar wording

the question the objection has been overruled as far as the 38 store the 38 foot over-the-counter

Similar wording

permit that your client pulled you have no idea what the commission would do whether it would

Similar wording

approve that or not somebody's moving furniture or scaffolding okay would you ask again please

Similar wording

yep yes I didn't ask a question I'll go I'll move on

Similar wording

okay uh mr kang um this property uh there's a current structure on the property right

Similar wording

yes okay and the structure is a multi a mixed-use property is that fair to say

Similar wording

yes to the best of my knowledge

Similar wording

um and you haven't testified to any structural issues with that two-story property correct

Similar wording

no the property exists and is is functioning uh is that is that fair a fair statement

Similar wording

to the best of my knowledge okay thank you um and there's i guess there's individual units

Similar wording

within the property right are you aware of that it's not uh a building that i'm fully aware of

Similar wording

Oh, all right. Fair enough. Well, you know, you do, you have seen it. You're,

Similar wording

you've been there, right? You've done your drawings.

Similar wording

You've been to the property, correct?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay. You observed a functioning, let's say mixed use, uh, uh, building, correct?

Similar wording

Yes. And they do the existing structure. Yes.

Similar wording

Very well. Thank you. Um, where were, excuse me, uh,

Similar wording

where was the main entrance to that existing, to the two story building

Similar wording

currently on the front spring garden spring garden there's no entry no uh ingress egress

Similar wording

on the 20th street side correct i think there is a side entrance

Similar wording

yeah i believe there is all right but you would agree that you would agree that the front of the

Similar wording

building is on spring garden yes okay thank you all right well that's a that's a good segue mr

Similar wording

chairman i'll i'll hit that line of questioning right now now i think i heard you you stating

Similar wording

Now, I think I heard you stating, and forgive me if I misstated, Mr. Kang, but I believe I heard you say that the fact that you called 20th Street a frontage in regards to the parking issue.

Similar wording

and forgive me if i misstated mr kang but i believe i heard

Similar wording

Did I hear that right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

all right so and i believe there was an argument and again correct me if i'm wrong but there was

Similar wording

an argument that the refusal uh was impacted by the frontage uh along spring along 20th street

Similar wording

did i hear that right that's because they are deeming 20th street as a front okay uh so but

Similar wording

the refusal is for lack of rear access parking isn't it that is by the

Similar wording

definition of what a rear yard is no the refusal for the curb cut is because

Similar wording

there's no rear access parking right it's the way they determine a side yard

Similar wording

versus a rear yard. Mr. Kang, the refusal is for having a curb cut along that is not rear access.

Similar wording

Are you aware of that? The refusal is for, yes, it said coming off a frontage, not a rear, isn't it?

Similar wording

No, no, no. The refusal is because parking, the curb cut is a side access, not a rear access. You

Similar wording

would agree that the parking garage of the city view is along the rear boundary of this property,

Similar wording

right? Yes. All right, so there's no way to get a rear access parking, right?

Similar wording

It has to go... Not from the rear. Right, so this is side access parking, isn't it?

Similar wording

It says 20th frontage.

Similar wording

that's the you're talking about the the the roof deck the roof deck talks about the frontage along

Similar wording

20th street i'm talking about the parking variance it says for the proposed all street

Similar wording

parking space accessory multi multi-family living use an attached building and access from street

Similar wording

frontage 20th street is prohibited by zone right but that section that's referenced in that refusal

Similar wording

is the section that requires rear access parking.

Similar wording

Did you look at that?

Similar wording

On a corner property, they used to determine

Similar wording

what a side yard is considered a rear access.

Similar wording

So by the change in the code,

Similar wording

they are now deeming, I guess, 20th Street also a front and a rear,

Similar wording

saying that we're prohibited rear access.

Similar wording

Right. You don't have rear access parking.

Similar wording

Your parking is along the side, right?

Similar wording

It's on 20th Street.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

You said Spring Garden's clearly the front, right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

So this parking curb cut is along the side of the building, right?

Similar wording

I think from the zoning code, there is no definition of a side yard.

Similar wording

Mr. Kang, is the curb cut along the rear boundary line?

Similar wording

It's on 20th Street.

Similar wording

Right.

Similar wording

No, it's not on the rear, direct rear.

Similar wording

Right. So this curb cut's along the side. If we agree with you that the frontage is 20th Street, this is a side entrance to the parking, right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

All right. Thank you.

Similar wording

Sorry, give me one minute.

Similar wording

all right there's nothing unusual about this property uh the lot lines of this property

Similar wording

it's a it's a typical rectangular property uh correct yes okay and there's no unusual soil

Similar wording

conditions uh no uh i mean the property is sloped uh but there's no unusual soil conditions or

Similar wording

no-build areas or anything like that, right? Unusual easements, utilities, right?

Similar wording

Not to my knowledge. Not to your knowledge, thank you. So, taking the existing structure,

Similar wording

it's possible, as an architect, you're a competent individual, and I know that to be true,

Similar wording

you could build an addition on this property on the existing structure,

Similar wording

which would comply with the height areas, correct?

Similar wording

uh potentially but again now you're speculating that historic would approve whatever we

Similar wording

addition we propose mr kang i'm not doing any speculating there's an existing two-story

Similar wording

there's an existing two-story structure on this property correct yes you could

Similar wording

structure at this property correct yes

Similar wording

place an addition or design an addition on top of the existing structure that

Similar wording

will comply with the height variance as a competent architect correct that's a

Similar wording

hypothetical going back to will historic through whatever we design I think the

Similar wording

question is could you build additional floors on the top of the existing

Similar wording

building as a matter of right i can't give you that answer because it goes back to historic

Similar wording

historic has to get final approval mr kang i'm not asking you about whether historical commission

Similar wording

would approve it i'm asking you could you design a structure which would be architecturally correct

Similar wording

where you would place an addition on the existing structure and it would comply with the height

Similar wording

variance. I object to the question because it puts the rabbit in the hat. The witness said,

Similar wording

the witness can certainly draw anything. Whether it will ultimately be approved, he said,

Similar wording

requires historical commission approval. Counsel says, well, you could do it and it would be as

Similar wording

of right. It's not as of right because anything you do in the historic district requires historic

Similar wording

approval. So again, it's an attempt to avoid damaging testimony, Mr. Chairman, to interfere

Similar wording

with my quote. I understand he not wanting the answer. It's a tough question. I'm sorry about

Similar wording

that. But it's part of why they don't have a hardship. Mr. Chairman, I object to that. It's

Similar wording

not if the leading questions, the leading questions suggest facts that are not in evidence.

Similar wording

they're based on council's understanding and council's suggestion and they're inappropriate

Similar wording

ask a straight question you get a straight answer Mr. Kang would there be any reason

Similar wording

as to why you would not be able to build an addition to the upper to an addition or addition

Similar wording

to the existing structure if it meets historical designation if it would meet historical designation

Similar wording

We can build a four-story building at 38 feet if Historic approves it.

Similar wording

You could.

Similar wording

Okay, thank you.

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

That was the answer.

Similar wording

They could build.

Similar wording

I heard feedback.

Similar wording

If Historic would approve it.

Similar wording

You could build it.

Similar wording

Again, if Historic with pending Historic approval.

Similar wording

All right.

Similar wording

I want the record to be clear because there was a lot of feedback.

Similar wording

I want to make sure the court reporter got it.

Similar wording

You could build that building that we're talking about if historical would approve it, right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

And you could certainly present that proposal to the commission, correct?

Similar wording

You could.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

Thank you.

Similar wording

Mr. Canning, you would agree that you're not required to propose parking with this building.

Similar wording

You don't have to have parking.

Similar wording

The RM1 residential district does not require accessory parking.

Similar wording

Do you agree?

Similar wording

Yes, it does not.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

So the variances that you're dealing with, the variance that we've discussed earlier,

Similar wording

is because you want to have accessory parking, correct?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Wouldn't you want accessory parking for a multifamily structure?

Similar wording

there's many multifamily structures without parking in the city of

Similar wording

Philadelphia there's thousands of them don't you agree agree okay so let's talk

Similar wording

about this over-the-counter permit I want the board to see it I'll share my

Similar wording

screen while you're bringing that up do you have any idea how much more you're

Similar wording

going to need of this witness of this witness mr chairman uh i guess 10 minutes 15 minutes

Similar wording

all right because we're at the two hour mark and uh i'm not sure if the stenographer needs

Similar wording

i don't want to break the rhythm of your questioning uh if the stenographer needs a

Similar wording

break if not we can just finish with this your witness this witness your cross-examination

Similar wording

and then we can go to mr bollin because at some point i think that this hearing's going to wind

Similar wording

up having to be uh held for another date to go but let's tanya could you let me know if the

Similar wording

sonographer needs a break at this moment or could she wait another 10 15 minutes um if we could take

Similar wording

a break after this witness that would be great okay so no all right mr demarco continue thank

Similar wording

mr chairman this is ryan boland i just want to let you know that i i will also have five or ten

Similar wording

minutes depending on what the witness says. Okay, thank you. Mr. Kang, thank you and thank you.

Similar wording

OK, thank you. Mr. Kang, thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do you see my screen, Mr. Kang?

Similar wording

Yes. All right. This is the over-the-counter permit that I referenced earlier, correct?

Similar wording

Yes. So the record's clear. This is a zoning and use and your name is on there, right?

Similar wording

Yeah. So you were able to design and provide to the Department of Licenses and Inspections

Similar wording

a proposal that fully complied with the zoning code, correct?

Similar wording

Zoning, yes.

Similar wording

And as a result of that, this is the permit that you obtained, right?

Similar wording

Yes.

Similar wording

Okay.

Similar wording

So your client and the applicant can proceed directly to building permits

Similar wording

to construct the building that's reflected in this permit, correct?

Similar wording

No.

Similar wording

I'm sorry.

Similar wording

I know what you – let me rephrase.

Similar wording

your client can apply to the historical commission for a building permit for

Similar wording

this over-the-counter permit, right?

Similar wording

So historic planning commission, I mean,

Similar wording

historic commission submission does not require a zoning permit.

Similar wording

We could go straight to them without a zoning.

Similar wording

Oh, I agree. I agree. But that's not my question.

Similar wording

I certainly agree with you.

Similar wording

My question is with this permit that you're looking at,

Similar wording

you could submit building

Similar wording

commission

Similar wording

right away

Similar wording

based on this permit right

Similar wording

we could okay

Similar wording

so when I say you proceed to building

Similar wording

permit I agree with you

Similar wording

that it has to go to the commission first

Similar wording

but we all agree with that right

Similar wording

sure okay

Similar wording

so there is a

Similar wording

structure that you can design

Similar wording

and construct that would comply with the zoning

Similar wording